#indiewebcamp 2015-10-30

2015-10-30 UTC
snarfed and tantek joined the channel
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tantek is back
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tantek reads logs
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tantek !tell shaners thanks for the specific example - I think the key is what you said right before the example: "made inspired by" https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-29/line/1446155724773 - usually inspirations and such are listed in a footer, sidebar or other secondary context - maybe look for design examples of "Thanks to ..." or "Inspired by ..." text in pages?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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[shaners] Fair point, tantek
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Loqi [shaners]: tantek left you a message 55 seconds ago: thanks for the specific example - I think the key is what you said right before the example: "made inspired by" https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-29/line/1446155724773 - usually inspirations and such are listed in a footer, sidebar or other secondary context - maybe look for design examples of "Thanks to ..." or "Inspired by ..." text in pages? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-29/line/1446164919893
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tantek !tell shaners the key is to *first* figure out the right *design* for it in terms of text content, layout etc., and *ONLY* after you've figured out a good design that communicates the real meaning (inspired by) rather than shoehorning into some existing plumbing semantic ("in-reply-to")
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek then figure out if there is any markup that makes sense or is needed
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tantek my shorter default is answer when people ask if they need / should use some plumbing is simply "No." because they didn't bring up a user-need.
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tantek shaners, the number of ways that a post could link to other posts is so varied that I've taken to just documenting (with citations) their various clusters of semantics rather than figuring out any markup: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Footer_sections
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tantek feel free to add "inspired by" to that list!
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[shaners] Gotcha
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Loqi [shaners]: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: the key is to *first* figure out the right *design* for it in terms of text content, layout etc., and *ONLY* after you've figured out a good design that communicates the real meaning (inspired by) rather than shoehorning into some existing plumbing semantic ("in-reply-to") http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-29/line/1446164986388
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tantek (especially if you add text to your page saying "Inspired by ..." )
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[shaners] I haven’t. And not sure I will. :neutral_face:
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tantek in general, there are far more text/content/design patterns than we'll figure out markup for - and that's ok
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tantek so I think that's the key
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tantek if you're not motivated, as a user, to show some content/relation to another page, on your page, then it's definitely not worth marking anything up
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tantek it should always start with what you're motivated to show, for the sake of users experiencing your site
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bear pave the cow paths
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tantek bear, the challenge is to not fall into the trap of forcing yourself to use existing paved paths just because they are there
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tantek that's the essence at the heart of this discussion re: "should I use in-reply-to"
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bear sure
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bear the point of the expression, at least how I meant it, was to identify the path that leads to the goal and once it becomes well trodden, pave it
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bear picking the path can/should be done once the design has shown what the needs are
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tantek much easier when nothing's been paved yet ;)
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tantek shaners - searching my site to see if I ever did "inspired by..."
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[shaners] Aside: I've never liked that phrase "pave the cow paths". Cows should be made to walk pavement. (I get the meaning and like the intent, just not the literal meaning).
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[shaners] s/should/shouldn't/
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Loqi [shaners] meant to say: Aside: I've never liked that phrase "pave the cow paths". Cows shouldn't be made to walk pavement. (I get the meaning and like the intent, just not the literal meaning).
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tantek ok found 3 fairly different examples of "Inspired by...", none of which have any particular special markup - shaners take a look to see if any of these make sense to you / resonate at all: http://tantek.com/2010/231/b1/bringing-back-the-blog http://tantek.com/2014/324/t1/apps-oauth-access-accounts-freemyoauth http://tantek.com/2013/149/b1/bayesian
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tantek re: aside - I'm not a huge fan of "pave the cow paths" either, but it's pre-existing :/
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[shaners] I hear you.
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[shaners] But so was spam/ham and you encouraged spam/yam instead. :grinning::thumbsup:
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tantek shaners - that took A LONG TIME
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tantek (seriously spam/ham has bothered me for much longer, and finally I lost it and asked for alternatives)
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tantek (now we just have to see if we can popularize spam/yam ;) )
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[shaners] The few "inspired by" mentions in my articles are similar to yours. Just a link in prose. No special markup or presentation. Not gonna sweat it anymore.
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[shaners] Thanks for talking through it with me.
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[shaners] Tantek++
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Loqi Tantek has 255 karma
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tantek anytime!
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tantek yes - the in-prose vs. separate footer/sidebar/section is an interesting distinction
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[shaners] It kiiiinda reminds me of the via/ht/hattip thing that Jason Kottke and other earlier bloggers do/did.
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[shaners] It's not a footer, per se. But it is the last line of the articles body typically.
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kevinmarks via and source are things that are more common
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kevinmarks I have done 'with apologies to' http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/01/translation-from-sanctimonious-bluster.html
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[shaners] While implementing Pages today, I noticed another difference (for me) between Pages and Articles: the need to say "show a link to this in the site nav" or not on a Page. Whereas, I've never wanted to put a post in my nav.
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kevinmarks that is the wordpress distinction
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tantek why pages vs articles rather than pages vs posts?
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tantek.com edited /posts (+444) "/* Pieces of a Post */ Inline and other references, inspired by, with apologies to (with citations)" (view diff)
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tantek shaners, kevinmarks captured: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Inline_and_other_references
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tantek shaners - feel free to add more there if you find other "Inspired by" examples you feel are illustrative
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kevinmarks atom has rel="via" for the blogging reference case
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tantek the goal is that eventually we may see enough of a pattern to document something
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tantek s/document/propose
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Loqi tantek meant to say: the goal is that eventually we may see enough of a pattern to propose something
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kevinmarks rel="via" Identifies a resource that is the source of the information in the context.
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kevinmarks which is different from "inspired by"
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek yes it's different. I'm also not convinced that definition of rel=via - as "blogging reference" is horribly generic
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tantek also, before we add any markup or ask anyone to - there must be a use case for consuming code for that markup
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tantek markup for markup's sake is a waste of time for the publisher :/
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tantek must be a *documented* use case
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aaronpk +1!
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[shaners] Agreed
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aaronpk readers are a great way to imagine where something might be used
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kevinmarks I agree -I was responding to shaners 'via' citation, whcih si a common patter
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kevinmarks with blogs it was a post link; in twitter it's usually a username link
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kevinmarks though that may be a particular 'tweet this link' pattern
snarfed, elf-pavlik, tantek, peacekeep3r, CaptainCalliope, ramsey, jden, Phae, tommorris, voxpelli, bigbluehat, bergie, gRegorLove, benward, snarfed1, KartikPrabhu, lukebrooker, nitot, wolftune, j12t and e-lima joined the channel
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tantek "no matter what you’re into, there’s a Twitter for that." - but certainly I don't want any email for that.
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tantek Twitter's latest round of email spam you have to uncheck.
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@first__tweet @t Hey Tantek! You were the first person to tweet indiewebcamp http://ctrlq.org/first/69203-indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/659997726617108480)
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@jgmac1106 @kevinmarks @t have always wanted to make one of the East Coast #indieweb camp alas it is scheduled for the same time as #mozfest next time (twitter.com/_/status/660016005830184960)
petermolnar, lewisnyman, friedcell, j12t, CaptainCalliope, Unifex, minsky, halorgium, Garbee, mgarrido, squeakytoy2 and sanduhrs joined the channel
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@realgaymania RT DianaNixon9 #Inks_and_Scratches #OCTOBER_ISSUE COMING WITHIN THE NEXT 12 HOURS! #writing #publishing #Indieauth… https://twitter.com/DianaNixon9/status/660052553195999232/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/660055153677049856)
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/dissolve/socialstream/blob/master/jf2.php
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ben_thatmustbeme wrong room
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@davidmead OK. I need help getting old @withknown & WP blogs combined to a new Known blog. https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!topic/known-dev/-hh34VJx254 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/660111196863856640)
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@ZaTorNb1 RT @t: Seeing tweets re #foocamp “alphas”. Alpha enough to #ownyourdata? Or just Betas to Silos? Makers, make thy #indieweb. (ttk.me t4cU3) (twitter.com/_/status/660146704365322241)
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@AEGIkastetxea @jimgroom nos habla sobre la importancia de los #API y la #IndieWeb @librecon Reclaim the Web! #activism #edupunk https://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ (twitter.com/_/status/660150364189102080)
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@ZaTorNb1 RT @t: Yesterday @IndieWebCamp I did * “how to” comments markup * cross-browser per post styles * mobile friendlier home page (ttk.me t4c91) (twitter.com/_/status/660153753639735296)
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@dariusdunlap @hardaway http://indiewebify.me — Getting starting on the IndieWeb. Great to see you this morning. (twitter.com/_/status/660155127983026176)
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ben_thatmustbeme actually looking at indiewebify.me ... i get and error if i put in my http:// version of my url
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ben_thatmustbeme Insecure redirect between and https://ben.thatmustbe.me/
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ben_thatmustbeme "insecure redirect" ?
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aaronpk http -> https redirects aren't secure because you started with http?
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aaronpk seems like http->https should be followed, but i could see not following https->http
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/rel-me/blob/master/RelMe.php#L106
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, yeah, it should start out false and then break only if it goes from true to false. hmmm
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: can you give me permissions to add a branch there, i have a fix
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aaronpk can you PR?
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, i was going to do it in a branch, but i'll just make a fork
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ben_thatmustbeme more annoying is all
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aaronpk oh
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aaronpk looks like there are tests as well
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ben_thatmustbeme really? none of them failed
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aaronpk odd. must not have been a test case for that kind of redirect check then
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aaronpk basically we're talking about changing it so that http->https redirect is allowed and https->http redirect is still considered insecure
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ben_thatmustbeme yes
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, weird, there is a test
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ben_thatmustbeme so i guess my fix isn't working
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ben_thatmustbeme oh wait, no, it only has a test for https->http
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: added test that fails previously and succeeds now
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aaronpk \o/
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ben_thatmustbeme i should have said, can i get added to https://github.com/orgs/indieweb/people
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aaronpk oh how are you not on there yet
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aaronpk huh what is your github username?
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ben_thatmustbeme dissolve
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aaronpk your invitation was already pending! from kylewm
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aaronpk sent it again
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, maybe i missed it somehow
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ben_thatmustbeme well i'm in now
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks
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aaronpk whee
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sparverius win 32
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aaronpk just enabled travis for that library too
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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aaronpk hopefully
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aaronpk it's hard to tel until there's an actual commit
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ben_thatmustbeme i really need to go through my github repos and delete all my forks that only had all of one PR and then i just stopped paying attention to them
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aaronpk hehe yeah
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, well thats funny, our payment processor started updating their opencart API again and forked FROM me for it
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm guessing new git account
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aaronpk woohoo https://travis-ci.org/indieweb/rel-me
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ben_thatmustbeme also, don't think i've ever seen this line before 'Couldn’t load network graph. Too many forks to display.'
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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kevinmarks hi dolo
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Dolo Hi
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kevinmarks gillmor gang time
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@soapfanfiction Nothing says #Halloween binge-a-thon like award winning #indieweb fave @ActingDead catch the #ZombieApocalypse NOW http://actingdead.com 💀 (twitter.com/_/status/660208097244377088)
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@ActingDead RT @soapfanfiction: Nothing says #Halloween binge-a-thon like award winning #indieweb fave @ActingDead catch the #ZombieApocalypse NOW http… (twitter.com/_/status/660210619723878400)
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@FemometerInc Now, now is the perfect time to take back control. http://www.femometer.com/ #OwnYourData #Femometer https://twitter.com/FemometerInc/status/660211849967734784/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/660211849967734784)
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@AuckwardLove It's all coming together... http://www.auckwardloveseries.com #fuckyeah #indieweb #comingsoon @emmettskilton @lucindajanehare https://twitter.com/AuckwardLove/status/660216017910562816/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/660216017910562816)
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