#indiewebcamp 2015-11-18

2015-11-18 UTC
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kevinmarks_ I have used s3 for static sites, but I didn't do it programatically
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kevinmarks_ I can't use CCS :hover to put an iframe in with :after can I?
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kevinmarks_ s/CCS/CSS/
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Loqi kevinmarks_ meant to say: I can't use CSS :hover to put an iframe in with :after can I?
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tantek no KevinMarks that would be a layering violation
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tantek but you could define a webcomponent, like <km-frame> which could do the lazy creation of an iframe inside
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kevinmarks_ ah right, if I put HTML in :after {content: it goes in as text
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kevinmarks_ hm
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kevinmarks_ how very AMP
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tantek of course when I go for a walk to the store offline, I can't help but rethink aspects of person-tag authoring and come up with more use-cases that I'd left out originally and possible answers.
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tantek this whole "go for a walk and stay offline" thing really works
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tantek and to be clear, this is not "anti-device" or "tech-free" or whatever they call those types of outings
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tantek having a device to capture thoughts offline is still useful / key
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+1109) "/* Brainstorming */ org vs person thoughts, silo only person-tags, nicknamescache help" (view diff)
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kevinmarks_ got invited on TWiG tomorrow, so line me up indieweb thinsg to talk about
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snarfed1 KevinMarks: silo swat0? https://snarfed.org/silo-swat0-on-facebook
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snarfed also hwc 2y anniversary tomorrow
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 21 minutes ago: Bridgy Publish person-tag to tweet text feature request captured https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/547 feedback welcome! Going back to coding now. :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447796497584
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kevinmarks_ OK, dynamic hovercards: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-03-25.html
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kevinmarks_ also on http://www.kevinmarks.com/nexteconomy2015-11-13.html
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kevinmarks_ though those look odd as lots of people have odd homepages
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kevinmarks_ linkedin won't display :(
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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kevinmarks_ I need to do some more work on the hovercard layout
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kevinmarks_ and I shoudl probably look at ogp as well
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kevinmarks_ https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/blob/master/web/hovercards.js
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kevinmarks_ not doing real h-card parsing, just works on <a class="h-card" href="person" style
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kylewm snarfed: do you think mf2-to-as should support multi-url h-cards? right now it looks like it just takes the first one on e.g. https://kylewm.com/2015/11/testing-person-tags
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kevinmarks_ hm, on mobile you can get a mouseenter but not a mouseleave?
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kylewm two mouseenter, one mouseleave!
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gRegorLove Mousal Kombat!
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kevinmarks_ hah
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kevinmarks_ bah Refused to display 'https://medium.com/@ev/' in a frame because it set 'X-Frame-Options' to 'sameorigin'.
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kylewm what was the thing where singular property names have single values and plural names have list values? like a person could have "url" and "urls"
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "thing where singular property names have single values and plural names have list values" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107P
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[snarfed] kevinmarks_ i feel your pain http://serverfault.com/questions/734037/app-engine-monitoring-dashboard-for-multiple-apps/735114
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[snarfed] kylewm iirc urls is an AS2 thing?
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[snarfed] doesn't answer your question :P
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[snarfed] oh and yes we should definitely support multi URL h-cards
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[kylewm] snarfed: just make "url" a multivalued property? or is there another property to use?
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[snarfed] urls
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[snarfed] each elem is dict with value: ...
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[snarfed] we do this when converting from silo profiles to AS, those are good examples
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[kylewm] well i'll be!
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[kylewm] thanks
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[snarfed] np!
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kylewm what how did that happen!! i bridgy published a note that tagged ryan and tantek, and facebook tagged Snoøpy Barrett and Tantek Çelik.
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kylewm ah ha, https://brid.gy/facebook/1407574399567467 shares snarfed.org
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[snarfed] lol
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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tantek !tell kevinmarks re: TWiG tomorrow - tell them 1: It's the Two Year Anniversary of the launch of the Homebrew Website Club! and 2: We have grown to having *6* Homebrew Website Club meetups around the world this week to celebrate, including tonight (Wed nt) at Mozilla SF!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek lol snarfed's identity being usurped by his cat
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tantek kylewm++ on getting person-tagging working!!!
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Loqi kylewm has 263 karma
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kevinmarks_ did you see my dynamic hovercards?
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Loqi kevinmarks_: tantek left you a message 8 minutes ago: re: TWiG tomorrow - tell them 1: It's the Two Year Anniversary of the launch of the Homebrew Website Club! and 2: We have grown to having *6* Homebrew Website Club meetups around the world this week to celebrate, including tonight (Wed nt) at Mozilla SF! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447830715172
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kevinmarks_ uh oh https://twitter.com/clickbaitrobot
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kevinmarks_ hm, so collections on G+ are invisible tags? https://plus.google.com/collection/ozf7-
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@jgmac1106 http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2015/11/used-goes-open-source-stabs-pearson-in.html?m=1 #oer #indieweb #literacies #teachtheweb (twitter.com/_/status/666945046881660928)
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emil.hemdal.se created /User:Emil.hemdal.se (+167) "Created page with "= Emil Hemdal = == Information == Webpage: [http://emil.hemdal.se] Email: [mailto:emil@hemdal.se] Location: Göteborg, Sweden GitHub: [https://github.com/emilhem]"" (view diff)
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emil.hemdal.se edited /User:Emil.hemdal.se (+64) "/* Information */" (view diff)
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emil.hemdal.se created /Template:emilhem (+35) "Created page with "[[User:Emil.hemdal.se|Emil Hemdal]]"" (view diff)
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emil.hemdal.se edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* Göteborg */" (view diff)
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emil.hemdal.se edited /Template:emilhem (+121) (view diff)
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GWG Good morning.
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GWG !tell acegiak Thinking about your query and the best way to balance automatic fill-in and manual fill-in. The goal of automatic was to encourage posting by making it a matter of adding a URL and everything else came with it. So, I think maybe the way of not using it needs to be more than a simple button. I might have to break down and learn how to do it with AJAX.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG !tell acegiak Would like to talk it out with you sometime.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek kevinmarks_: wat
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tantek or did you mean something like this: https://twitter.com/clickbaitrobot/status/666906616869056512
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@clickbaitrobot Share: If You Like Google+. Like: If You Love Teletext #Google [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/666906616869056512)
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tantek where Teletext is beating Google+
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@jgmac1106 @mothersele #indieweb has always been priority for you. It was just in other names. In terms of technical support of tools... yes please (twitter.com/_/status/666973341966852096)
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@voxpelli Just released a couple of more accounts for my WebMention service: https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ Easy way to start receiving mentions of ones site (twitter.com/_/status/666982332453232644)
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tantek voxpelli++ keep on cranking on! awesome!
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Loqi voxpelli has 57 karma
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voxpelli :)
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voxpelli Fun stat from my endpoint: Looks like I consistently have 30-40 EventSource connections open to, prepared to receive new WebMentions in realtime :)
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johnstorey voxpelli: Are you the same voxpelli from Drupal work? Mostly curious here.
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voxpelli johnstorey: yes!
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johnstorey voxpelli: Great show! I found out about indieweb last week and am a huge fan. Though time limits may start me slowly, with a hosted version of Known.
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kylewm this seems like bad news for OwnYourGram and Bridgy/Instagram http://developers.instagram.com/post/133424514006/instagram-platform-update
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kylewm hopefully we'll still pass their review process under "Help individuals share their own content with 3rd party apps,"
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voxpelli "sustainable environment built around authentic experiences on the platform" – same arguments Twitter used when they started making their API more closed as well
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kylewm but OwnYourGram may have to rebrand
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kylewm silosgonnasilo++
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Loqi silosgonnasilo has 1 karma
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[snarfed] sigh
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[snarfed] off the cuff, based on no actual data :P...i give it 50/50 that backfeed survives
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ben_thatmustbeme the specifically call out "and share media using web embeds."
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ben_thatmustbeme :/
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aaronpk oh no
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aaronpk that is bad news for ownyourgram for sure
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aaronpk reading their terms now
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aaronpk "1. Instagram users own their media. It's your responsibility to make sure that you respect that right."
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aaronpk pretty sure ownyourgram respects that more than instagram does ;)
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aaronpk "2. You cannot use "insta", "gram" or "Instagram" in your company or product name." okay definitely gonna have to rebrand
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aaronpk "4. You cannot use the API Platform to crawl or store users' media without their express consent." not a problem
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aaronpk from their blog post, "Help individuals share their own content" is a supported use case
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aaronpk the real question is whether the realtime endpoint will stick around
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aaronpk looks like yes. https://instagram.com/developer/subscriptions/ also interesting they document that as supporting PubSubHubbub
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aaronparecki.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+395) "add fliickr and instagram" (view diff)
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aaronpk so who wants to help me rebrand OwnYourGram as a tool that helps individuals share their own content and helps brands manage their audience?
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snarfed ducks
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aaronpk so today in Google App Engine WTF, I hooked up a new project to deploy to app engine from Travis. Travis shows a bizarre error but it deployed anyway.
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@kylewmahan @blaine this could definitely spell trouble for a couple #indieweb integrations... (twitter.com/_/status/667010525553790976)
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snarfed wtf indeed
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aaronpk huh. deployed again and it worked fine this time. :shrug:
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snarfed i'll never understand computers
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snarfed hey aaronpk i assume we're planning to VC with you all in portland tonight, right?
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aaronpk maybe? I wasn't planning on hosting HWC at my office tonight
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snarfed ah ok
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snarfed nm then
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voxpelli just added query support to my node.js micropub handler: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express :)
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voxpelli so one can now easily add support for ?q=syndicate-to, ?q=actions and other queries that might exist(?) for micropub
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aaronpk neat
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voxpelli I wonder if I should add POSSE-support to my endpoint – the handler would support it know, but since my endpoint then takes the data and published to GitHub Pages, there's a delay before it's accessible publicly
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voxpelli so the URL in the tweets wouldn't work for a while, which probably isn't such a good idea since that makes it impossible for eg. Twitter to find any metadata on them
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voxpelli I'll probably have to stick to my original plan and do the syndication after the initial publication of a post – chaining it onto a PuSH-ping or something
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[snarfed] voxpelli: you publish twitter card metadata?
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[snarfed] otherwise i don't think twitter will do much with the link, or care
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voxpelli [snarfed]: I should be publishing open graph data, but not sure if I actually am
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voxpelli but still feels like a poor practise to announce a URL before its actually available
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voxpelli I guess my endpoint itself could register for an event on the GitHub repository to be notified when a publish has happened and then do the syndication, but can just as well pair it PuSH then, better separation of concerns
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[snarfed] poor practice, sure, but in this case probably not much actual harm in practice
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: rebrand to OwnYourPhotos?
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ben_thatmustbeme OwnYourData?
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Jeena We're running a bit late but hi from the GOT HWC
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Jeena ok, <marquee>test</marquee> still works, nice
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aaronpk man it's really not my day today. gave up deploying to app engine, but now having weird errors talking to php's package manager
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aaronpk oh wow, actually the problem is PHP can't talk to any https site right now
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tantek I'm having less serious problems, like falling behind on my photo posting from the weekend!
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aaronpk what! now it works when the web request makes the request but not from the command line!
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tantek commandline--
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Loqi commandline has -2 karma
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tantek lol
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aaronpk well somehow i managed to set the connect timeout to -1 only on the CLI config
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aaronpk so every time i was attempting to connect to anything it would immediately time out
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snarfed aaronpk: reminds me of http://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html
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snarfed an internet classic
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aaronpk haha yeah
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snarfed commandline++ (sorry i had to)
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Loqi commandline has -1 karma
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snarfed gui++ for learning new apps, commandline++ for power users of long time heavily used apps
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Loqi gui has 1 karma
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snarfed everyone wins!
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tantek Geostatisticians lol
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snarfed "how many rocks are in this square foot of land?"
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snarfed "how about this one?"
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snarfed is evidently in an #indiechat mood this morning
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tantek see snarfed, it's why you should dip into #indiechat once in a while ;)
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[snarfed] roughly once a year
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bear commandline++ (to restore balance ;)
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Loqi commandline has 0 karma
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[snarfed] hugs bear
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bear blushes
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kevinmarks_ 2 cartoons feel indieweb today
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kevinmarks_ http://xkcd.com/1605/
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kevinmarks_ and http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2906
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tantek kevinmarks_: I don't get the indieweb connection to xkcd 1605
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tantek could you xksplain it to me ;)
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kevinmarks_ the view source js;dr aspect
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tantek that qwantz one though - so good
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tantek "Here's a friend crossposting from Twitter, so all these @ tags don't work." - uh (resembles that remark) - also recently topical /person-tag !
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kylewm I've started unfollowing people who do that
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kylewm since you know, I have twitter too
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tantek cross post from Twitter to FB?
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tantek ok that's going on /FB
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[snarfed] similarly now when i indie reply or like something, i don't usually syndicate that response any more
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aaronpk I still syndicate those (to only the silo they were on) because I don't assume everyone has notifications or a view of their incoming webmentions yet
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[snarfed] ah yeah this is only for people who i know do
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kevinmarks_ as I follow my fb feed in woodwind, I get the indie version of that
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tantek snarfed: I appreciate your POSSEd replies
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+1054) "/* Criticism */ Encourages Bad Online Publishing Behaviors" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+185) "/* summary more text UI */ citation for turn-off Twitter->FB auto-crossposting" (view diff)
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kevinmarks_ tantek: where did you write up your new URL in plaintext syntax?
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tantek uh - what?
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kevinmarks_ you were talking about a way to auto-link that included link text
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kevinmarks_ something like 'http://tantek.com (tantek)'
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tantek ah yes that - sorry - been working on so much auto-* lately that I lose track
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tantek :)
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tantek that's part of my replacement for Markdown (which I still don't have a name for)
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aaronpk Marktek
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tantek nothing so self-referential!
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tantek kevinmarks: indevelopment here: http://tantek.com/w/Markdown#Hyperlinkswithlinktext
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kevinmarks_ poshmark
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tantek this piece I've already implemented to great utility on my site! http://tantek.com/w/Markdown#Hyperlinkedimages
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kevinmarks_ as opposed to commonmark
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tantek 1/2 :) smarkdown - simpler markdown
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kevinmarks_ oh, I remembered it the other way round - interesting
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tantek it *was* the other way around
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tantek but when I analyzed my actual plain text prose publishing practices I adapted to those
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tantek the idea is that secondary information, tends to be secondary in the content ;)
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tantek whether that's href, alt etc.
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kevinmarks_ right, that follows my quote pattern too
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tantek in contrast to the primary information, which is the *visible* information
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tantek I'm brainstorming them as a set as they make sense
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tantek yet I'm implementing *only* when I have a very concrete real world use case
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tantek (and each feature in smarkdown notes its implementation level)
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "today" (view diff)
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tantek kevinmarks did you get my message re: what to talk about on Twig today?
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kevinmarks_ the anniversary and growth yes
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kevinmarks_ did you see my dynamic hovercards?
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kylewm kevinmarks_: I did, they were cool! Although I wasn't sure what changed
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kevinmarks_ before they were baked in, so the pages loaded all the hovercard iframes just in case you hovered
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kevinmarks_ which is RAM-hungry and thrashes unmung
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tantek performance++
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Loqi performance has 1 karma
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kevinmarks_ now they're made in js on the fly, which makes them a bit slower on first hover
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@t Breakthrough #indieweb progress: federating cross-site person-tags. See more tonight @MozSF! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4eH1) (twitter.com/_/status/667055382062170112)
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kevinmarks_ it alos means you cna just yoink the js and have them on your site: https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/blob/master/web/hovercards.js
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kevinmarks_ though my h-card 'parsing' is not quite worthy of the name
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tantek hey how's HWC Brighton going?
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kevinmarks_ as it only works in <a class="h-card" href="" markup
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@MozSF RT @t: Breakthrough #indieweb progress: federating cross-site person-tags. See more tonight @MozSF! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4eH1) (twitter.com/_/status/667055930081587200)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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kylewm kevinmarks_: does the text all overlap each other in your version?
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kylewm wondering if it looks different on a different OS/browser
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kevinmarks_ yeah, I need to fix my layout
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indie-visitor hi
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indie-visitor http://www.hashtags360.com/hashtags/sanskarijamesbond
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kevinmarks_ what's that, indie-visitor ?
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indie-visitor a site based on twitter
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@energyovertime RT @t: Breakthrough #indieweb progress: federating cross-site person-tags. See more tonight @MozSF! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4eH1) (twitter.com/_/status/667056523831410688)
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kylewm also realized Pestagram is definitely going to be affected by the API changes
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kevinmarks_ it's been flaky for a while
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kevinmarks_ did they take away public tags api?
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kevinmarks_ I thought they only took away your consumption feed
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kylewm "
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kylewm You cannot replicate the core user experience of the Instagram apps or web site. For example, do not build a media viewer."
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kevinmarks_ hey, I built it first
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kylewm :)
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kevinmarks_ in 2012 they didn't have a website
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kylewm well you can keep it until June
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kylewm such is the munificience of our silo overlords
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tantek what's this about rdio? https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/667039484060434432
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@waxpancake This is how the Internet Archive will remember Rdio when it's gone. [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/667039484060434432)
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snarfed it's shutting down
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tantek wow
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snarfed kylewm: if you've looked at the instagram thing in depth a bit, any idea if we can do anything proactive to help keep backfeed?
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kevinmarks_ cannot use 'gram' oy
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tantek so that means Spotify won that battle?
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kylewm snarfed: no clue :/ " cannot use the API Platform to crawl or store users' media without their express consent." Wonder if that includes user's likes and comments
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tantek http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/11/rdio-shutting-down-and-pandora-will-buy-its-technology/
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aaronpk "without their express consent" is the key there. if they sign up for bridgy backfeed it's fine
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kevinmarks_ having them login to the api is express consent
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aaronpk also that is talking about media, not about likes
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snarfed kevinmarks_: not for the commenters and likers
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snarfed i guess we wait and see
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aaronpk you're not grabbing the commenters' photos though
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kylewm I don't see anything we should change before submitting for review
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kevinmarks_ well, you're grabbing their profile pix
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snarfed we're nitpicking language, but as usual with this kind of thing, the language doesn't really matter that much
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snarfed their intent does
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kylewm snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 169 karma
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snarfed they want certain things and not other things. they crafted some language that approximates that
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snarfed if they like bridgy, they'll allow it. if they don't, they'll kill it.
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snarfed we *may* be able to spin it to their liking if we can understand their intent
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kevinmarks_ right
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kevinmarks_ and they definitely don't want pestagram
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snarfed same w/ownyourgram, pestagram, etc
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snarfed yeah probably not :(
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snarfed you can still rename and try to spin though!
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+329) "/* Upcoming */ Rdio shutting down imminently" (view diff)
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tantek One thing I will lose in the transition from Twitter-FB secondary POSSE to mysite-BridgyPublish-FB POSSE are the /link-preview images for the first link in the post
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tantek e.g. a post like: https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10101977602365803 that came in via Twitter has a /link-preview with image
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tantek the same note POSSEd via Bridgy Publish will not (never seen a FB link-preview in any past notes I've POSSEd via BP)
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tantek let me see if I can ask this as a positive
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tantek snarfed,kylewm is it possible to have a post created by Bridgy Publish on FB show a /link-preview with an image for the first link in the post?
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Jeena Hehe, I printed out information about this weeks HWC on paper and handed them out at work during last weeks http://foss-gbg.se meeting. Someone took one to the University and put it up somewhere there. And because of that one person who didn't know about IndieWeb came to todays HWC, not bad
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kevinmarks_ physical flyers and flyposting work surprisingly well
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Jeena it seems like that, much better than all my Facebook spamming
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tantek print can be quite useful if placed in the right place(s)
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kevinmarks_ I proved this empirically at google - emailing out about a tech talk got tinay attendance; flyposting the campus got lots more
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tantek for such an email based company that's hilarious
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Jeena hehe yeah
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Jeena kevinmarks_, are you working at google?
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kevinmarks_ I was from 2007-2009
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Jeena ah
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[snarfed] tantek: sounds like https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/474 ?
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GWG Where are you working nowadays?
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kevinmarks_ I'm independent
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Jeena Indie!
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kevinmarks_ I made cheesy flyers liek this https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7cAS_dEul22X1FVRnBFRmxBbnM/view
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GWG KevinMarks, oh
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kevinmarks_ https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7cAS_dEul22SHBsVW1qTVRHMHc
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tantek ah thanks snarfed !
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GWG I think that I have decided to solve a problem with Javascript. I may regret this
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kylewm now you have two problems?
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kylewm javascript++ to make up for that bad joke
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Loqi javascript has 2 karma
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GWG Kylewm, possibly more
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Jeena haha kevinmarks_ that is really quite cheesz
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tantek kylewm that joke is already used for regex!@
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kevinmarks_ now you have "2"+2 ="22" problems
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kylewm and before that for AWK
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GWG Yesterday I was contemplating automatic vs manual actions. I think I may need Ajax
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tantek snarfed: straw algorithm suggested for https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/474#issuecomment-157840868 curious to see you poke holes in it :)
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GWG Kylewm, you post a lot of likes, how many steps does it take?
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tantek is interested in that answer too
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tantek is especially interested to see it documented on /Redwind and /Woodwind (depending on which is being used!)
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GWG I'd like to know on both
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GWG Kylewm has been liking pre Woodwind
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Jeena this was my flyer https://jeena.net/t/HWC.odt
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tantek what is .odt?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for ".odt" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107Q
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kylewm GWG: tantek: these days mostly http://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourresponses
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GWG Kind of defeats the point for me.
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GWG Either way, will continue to contemplate the issue.
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kevinmarks_ .odt is Open Document Text file format, supported by OpenOffice, Google Docs and MS Word. It's also the official document format for the UK governmant
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loqi.me created /.odt (+177) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-18/line/1447876529630 and dfn added by kevinmarks_" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek is wary of clicking on unknown file extensions
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kevinmarks_ what is .odt
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Loqi odt is Open Document Text file format, supported by OpenOffice, Google Docs and MS Word https://indiewebcamp.com/.odt
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kevinmarks.com edited /.odt (+91) (view diff)
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kevinmarks_ https://twitter.com/girlziplocked/status/667059898312728576
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kylewm GWG: what's the point for you (of liking things)?
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@girlziplocked But the problem that obsess me will not be solved by plumbing obscure depths but cross pollination and this is why I'm cranky. (twitter.com/_/status/667059898312728576)
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tantek you can't cranky your way into being productive, only destructive
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kevinmarks_ No HWC in Cambridge, MA yet?
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tantek kevinmarks_: keep asking rhiaro & sandro to start one!
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kylewm geostatisticians++ for empirically approximating the speed of light!
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Loqi geostatisticians has 1 karma
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GWG I meant that I want to do more on my own site.
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tantek approximate the speed of light from your site to the reader?
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GWG I meant posting
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aaronpk Now that I can sign in to OAuth 2 services on my apple TV, time to adapt it to work with IndieAuth and make a TvOS reader?
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tantek hey kevinmarks for every negative tweet you cite like that I'm going to request that you cite *at least* TWO positive ones :)
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sandro tantek, kevinmarks_, I can't figure out what an HWC is. Heavyweight Champion? History of Western Civilization?
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tantek sandro, if you can't figure out, then ask, "what is ..."
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tantek the oracle of indieweb is patiently awaiting your queries
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sandro I asked google, which *usually* knows a lot more....
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sandro what is hwc?
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tantek I mean here in IRC
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club is a bi-weekly meetup of people passionate about or interested in creating, improving, building, designing their own website, in the same structure as the Homebrew Computer Club meetings http://indiewebcamp.com/hwc
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tantek gives Loqi a snack.
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Loqi hearts the snack.
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sandro Ah, yes, I'd have to be rather less antisocial to pull that off. :-)
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sandro but rhiaro, sure. :-)
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tantek sandro: there are many variants, e.g. aaronpk runs the HWC PDX as a hack night - kind of like a mini IndieWebCamp hack day - but just a couple of hours in the evening.
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sandro yeah, but don't you have to want to deal with human beings to do something like that? :-)
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tantek mumbles something about the W3C staff contact for the *Social* Web WG as being self-admittedly "antisocial" ;)
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cleverdevil fun news from one of the most popular silos: http://developers.instagram.com/post/133424514006/instagram-platform-update
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cleverdevil "We’ve heard from the community that it can be unclear where their content is being shared and viewed, so today we are deprecating the /users/self/feed and /media/popular API endpoints for new apps. Existing apps will have until the end of the review period before access to the endpoints is terminated."
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tantek yikes
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cleverdevil yeeeeep.
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cleverdevil but, hey, maybe we'll be able to more effectively engage with our favorite brands?!
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tantek Some residents of the walled garden have expressed fears about things outside the walls, thus we are building the walls higher.
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cleverdevil chuckles.
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sandro I know you're mostly joking, but the social working group is still a working group, not a social group. I'm fine with *working* with people, like when we have a job to do. It's the being-social-with-strangers part that I'm not particularly fond of.
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kylewm cleverdevil: scroll up to this morning to see much fretting about what this API change means for Bridgy, Ownyourgram, and Pestagram
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cleverdevil :/
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cleverdevil honestly, I'll just stop using Instagram.
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cleverdevil if there's not an easy way for me to own my content, then I have no interest in participating in the silo.
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kevinmarks_ do we just s/gram/graph/ ?
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kevinmarks_ OK, TWiG time
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kevinmarks_ feed me info
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kevinmarks_ sandro that reminds me of http://epeus.blogspot.com/2011/11/our-brains-make-social-graph-real.html
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kevinmarks_ "It is an act of hubris to attempt to represent such vital things as human relationships in a database, and those who have done so often do resemble Maciej's Mormon bartender - Orkut Büyükkökten, Mark Zuckerberg and Jonathan Abrams do seem to have made what danah boyd has called Autistic Social Software."
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snarfed cleverdevil: you'll want to read this morning's logs
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cleverdevil plans on it
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davidpeach evening all
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kylewm hi davidpeach, what's new?
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davidpeach hmm
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davidpeach not too much
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davidpeach although I am now posting playlists on my site :)
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davidpeach you, kylewm ?
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kylewm working on adding person tags to my site and publishing then via bridgy, hoping to demo tonight at HWC
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davidpeach nice
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davidpeach person tags, is that a new thing?
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davidpeach or have i just missed that?
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kevinmarks anyone seen http://marketingland.com/google-app-streaming-web-of-apps-152449
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kylewm davidpeach: a couple people got excited about working on them this week, but they've been around for a while. check out /person-tag
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davidpeach yer i was just having a look. interesting
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kylewm has facebook always had name pronunciation guides??
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kevinmarks it's https://xkcd.com/1367/
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davidpeach nice
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kylewm ha
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kevinmarks anyone looked at ethereum?
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aaronpk they had a meetup in portland a couple weeks ago but i missed it
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davidpeach Are there any Midlands, UK based indiewebers regulars here?
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rhiaro in my heart, davidpeach
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davidpeach hey rhiaro
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davidpeach hows your knee now? Saw on your site, you'd done it in from running?
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rhiaro davidpeach: improving, thanks. Offtopic -> #indiechat though!
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davidpeach hehe. fair enough. Trying to get https sorted atm
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rhiaro I almost did that at last iwc... then... didn't
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davidpeach ha
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rhiaro the usual story
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davidpeach I'm going with letsencrypt. So have filled out their beta form and now just waiting to be accepted
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davidpeach free ssl? yes please
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endi davidpeach: nice! I've been trying to get in on that beta
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endi I've had a project I want to test it with since Steve Gibson spoke of it like.. 8 months ago?
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endi it's actually been difficult to wait rather than pick up a 5$ cert from like comodo lol
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davidpeach endi : have you filled out the form form beta?
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davidpeach I was linked it in letsencrypt irc
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endi nope, I have contacted someone that's working with letsencrypt that said they would do what they can
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davidpeach ah oki
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endi they haven't sent me any form tho
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davidpeach i was linked to this:
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davidpeach https://docs.google.com/forms/d/15Ucm4A20y2rf9gySCTXD6yoLG6Tba7AwYgglV7CKHmM/viewform?c=0&w=1
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endi ah cool i will fill it out
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endi thanks!
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endi I have been traveling around europe the last 10 weeks so I haven't really had any IRC open
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davidpeach nice!
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endi yeah it was fun
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endi but not much time for lurking in IRCs :P
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tantek hey endi welcome back!
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tantek just noticed, it looks like your image is broken in the logs - perhaps double-check your https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people entry
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endi thanks :)
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endi ah I'll take a look
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endi I'm in the process of migrating my known site from an RPi in my closet to a server
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davidpeach im off. night night all
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davidpeach at least its nighty night for me
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endi I'm sure all kinds of things are breaking
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endi night davidpeach
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rhiaro aaronpk: remember that typo I found that I thought would fix my auto bridgy twittering?
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rhiaro It didn't.
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rhiaro Now I have to actually debug it
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aaronpk aww
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endi lol kevinmarks: blockchain is currently like 46GB :p
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tantek yeah I can't take it seriously. seems like more plumbing-centric science projecty stuff but happy to be proven wrong!
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tantek endi where did you get that #?
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tantek what is ethereum?
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Loqi Ethereum is a project that implements a bitcoin/cryptocurrency like block chain used for sending around "contracts" https://indiewebcamp.com/Ethereum
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endi https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
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aaronpk i thought etherium used its own blockchain
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endi 47,229mb
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tantek right - what's ethereum's?
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endi oh yeah, i was talking about bitcoin; kevinmarks said "it's a few gigs"
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kevinmarks 46 is a few, yes
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endi haha yup
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endi when I used to mine it was like 6 and it was annoying
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snarfed worthwhile reminder, plumbing projects can definitely be worthwhile, they're just not usually what you want to drive design for end user use cases, like we do here
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snarfed ie plumbing-first is rarely what we want to do here, but it may be ok for other communities building very different things
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tantek snarfed: in this case it is a claim of solving the "same" problems of (re)decentralizing the web/internet
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tantek so yes I agree with your statement in general :)
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tantek however, I challeng you to go through http://redecentralize.org/interviews/ and tell me how many of those are UX related/centric in anyway (besides indie "phone")
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tantek the observation here is that it appears to be a developer default to pursue plumbing-centric approaches - to *everything*
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tantek and the challenge - how do we get more developers to switch to UX-first approaches?
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kevinmarks already plugged HWC + IWC, anything else I should send twig people to?
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tantek IndieWebCamp SF 2015-12-03 - oh you got that?
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kevinmarks yes
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tantek kevinmarks: bring up the fact that the IndieWeb community is breaking new ground with solving federated person-tagging
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tantek E.g. why can't you tag someone on Instagram using their Facebook ID? Or vice versa?
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tantek even though they're owned by the same company!
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tantek we're solving that problem, and have working solutions
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tantek and yes I know non-tech people who have an Instagram account but no FB, or vice versa
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tantek thus when I post a photo of them on IG, I need to tag them with their FB identity, but can't. or vice versa
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kevinmarks I should say 'sign up for ownyourgram' before they kill it
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tantek fear is not helpful
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Loqi +1
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aaronpk lol no all that's gonna do is give me a bunch of angry people in june
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tantek snarfed - to be fair - you seem to have fairly rare good intuition for figuring out plumbing-like services/software (granary) that provides direct benefit to existing UI systems
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snarfed thanks tantek!
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tantek big difference between that and the "if you build it they will come" (and build apps and UI and stuff on top of your plumbing solution) approach that I see from things like ethereum
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tantek "field of plumbing dreams"?
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kevinmarks plugged indiewebify.me
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endi thanks for that, I hadn't run across that
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endi although it reports facebook isn't linking back, not sure where I haven't listed my known url
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endi flickr error was pointing to ../photos/andrej_stefanovski instead of ../people/..
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endi perhaps facebook is similar