#indiewebcamp 2015-11-17

2015-11-17 UTC
mlncn, catsup, rhiaro, myfreeweb, johnstorey, KartikPrabhu, nitot, davidized and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
GWG I need to figure out automated data entry from parsing vs manual entry
#
GWG A link preview doesn't usually let you edit it
nitot joined the channel
#
gRegorLove On FB you can
#
gRegorLove When sharing a link in a status; not when putting a link in a comment. You can only remove it in the latter instance.
#
GWG But should a user interface tell you what do or let you do everything?
#
gRegorLove I'm not sure the context of what you're referring to.
catsup joined the channel
#
gRegorLove With FB it fills in the link preview and then you can click the description to edit it.
#
gRegorLove And usually lets you click through possible representative images from the URL
#
GWG I wrote an interface to enter a URL for a like/reply/bookmark etc and it parses the link and adds metadata
catsup, KartikPrabhu, Gold, lukebrooker, nitot and snarfed joined the channel
#
davidized.com edited /IRC_People (+50) "Add davidized" (view diff)
snarfed, snarfed1, Tristitia, lukebrooker, Gold, tantek, wolftune, nitot and sandro joined the channel
#
GWG tantek, I have need of your common sense approach
#
kylewm snarfed: https://snarfed.org/archive is all confused
nitot and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] kylewm: thanks! my shortcodes are showing
snarfed joined the channel
#
kylewm snarfed: for person tagging stuff, bridgy does not fetch homepages to look for rel-mes yet does it?
#
snarfed kylewm: definitely not
#
snarfed it looks up usernames and domains in the datastore
#
snarfed honestly i can't say i plan to do rel-me lookup anytime soon
#
snarfed kylewm: if you want to unify that person tag handling for flickr, the FB code is https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/facebook.py#L231
#
snarfed (we probably should)
#
tantek GWG, sorry for the delay! Just getting home
#
GWG I can never tell when people are here or 'here'.
#
kylewm snarfed: that is pretty fb specific though right? we shouldnt' have to look up inferred nicknames for any other silo
#
tantek GWG, I'll trade common sense approach for a couple of wiki stubs for /Google_Photos /Google+_Photos per https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-16/line/1447684041206 and https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-16/line/1447671345936
#
kylewm it's funny working with flickr api, it's like they actually wanted you to use it to do stuff https://www.flickr.com/services/api/explore/flickr.urls.lookupUser
#
tantek kylewm: it's amazing. they even support keyless access to RSS feeds! crazy! ;)
#
GWG Google+ Photos is gone.
#
tantek GWG - could you note that in /site-deaths ?
#
tantek (if it isn't already)
#
snarfed kylewm: true re inferred nicknames
#
kylewm tantek: exactly!
#
snarfed go with whatever works
#
snarfed kylewm: maybe API opennessis inversely correlated with product success
#
snarfed (kidding!)
#
tantek kylewm: e.g. say you wanted to poll an RSS feed of photos you've been tagged in because you're trying to be player B in Silo SWAT0 using Flickr, you could poll this: https://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/profile_photos.gne?nsid=39216764@N00&lang=en-us&format=rss_200
#
snarfed (player C :P)
#
tantek player B is the one that the photo is of and gets person-tagged
#
snarfed yes, and player C "sees the photo in his http://indiewebcamp.com/reader UI."
#
kylewm snarfed: I mean, that's exactly what happens though right? create a developer friendly API when you need to attract users, then lock it down when you need to monetize
#
tantek snarfed but not because they're stalking B!
#
tantek but because they are following A
#
tantek B is notified that they were tagged in a photo
#
snarfed right
#
snarfed technically it says B "gets a notification"
#
tantek snarfed: yes - Flickr added PuSH support for all those feeds
#
snarfed cool!
#
tantek AFAIK!
#
snarfed we've been making B the silo-only participant for testing w/facebook
#
tantek so presumably B was already subscribed to PuSH updates of the feed of photos they are tagged in
#
tantek thus "gets a notification" via PuSH / webhook callback that they were tagged in a photo
#
snarfed if they're an indie participant, yes
#
snarfed with the parts we currently have, it's definitely easiest to do with B as silo-only
#
snarfed no known implementations of person tag backfeed yet :P
#
tantek that reminds me I'm behind on posting photos
#
snarfed is the july indieweb SWAT0 the first known instance to happen? apart from within a single silo, of course
#
tantek can't say "apart from within a single" anything and SWAT0 in the same sentence SWAT0 requires multiple implementations, people, sites
#
tantek what is Google Photos?
#
snarfed right, i figured. so....?
#
tantek snarfed - supposedly StatusNet and Cliqset got it working in late 2010, but no one was able to really verify it
#
snarfed ok
#
tantek and the videos posted to youtube don't really show it working - but we presumed good faith at the time that the folks leading those projects got it
#
tantek july indieweb SWAT0 is the first time we got *three* implementations interoperating across *three* sites.
#
tantek and it's much more well documented
#
tantek right now my photo posting is being throttled by iOS9 wifi not working, thus stopping me from posting photos from my iPod :(
#
snarfed boo :(
#
snarfed shhhh don't tell anyone but https://snarfed.org/silo-swat0-on-facebook
#
tantek reboot all the things!
#
tantek and apparently Loqi is gone too?!? aaronpk
#
tantek struggling with considering good photo burst posting behavior
#
david.shanske.com edited /site-deaths (+396) "/* 2015 */" (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com edited /site-deaths (+1) "/* = Google+ Photos */" (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com created /Google_Photos (+545) "Created page with "Google Photos is a photo storage silo that incorporates machine learning tools to organize and categorize uploaded photos, as well as generate presentations called 'stories' base..."" (view diff)
#
tantek I figure it's late at night PST, so fewer people will notice. The best time to burst post IMO.
#
david.shanske.com edited /Google_Photos (+11) (view diff)
#
GWG tantek: There is a Google Photos page.
#
GWG Needs improvement. However, I need sleep.
#
GWG Will have to collect the other part of the bargain tomorrow.
#
snarfed so following up on that post...we're looking for a volunteer to be player A in a more public silo SWAT0 demo at wed HWC!
#
snarfed you have to be able to post photos with person tags (manual is ok) and posse to facebook (via bridgy publish is ok)
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: https://snarfed.org/silo-swat0-on-facebook http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/snarfed.org/silo-swat0-on-facebook
#
tantek snarfed and support sending a salmention to player B
#
snarfed nah facebook handles that part
#
tantek C comments on A's photo, A has to then pass that comment notification along to B
#
tantek presumably C comments on A's original photo
#
snarfed silo-only B removes the need for a number of difficult features :P
#
snarfed not necessarily
#
tantek how do we send a salmention to a silo?
#
snarfed we're kind of making up the silo-only rules as we go :P
#
tantek wat
#
snarfed well, we're changing it, right? :P
#
snarfed in our end to end test, C POSSEd their comment to FB, which took care of notifying B
#
tantek I mean, a silo salmention could be done by propagating comments to silo copies...
#
tantek but I have a feeling that would be VERY WEIRD
#
snarfed sure. i'm just saying, we used the tools that actually exist today
#
snarfed and salmention POSSE/backfeed into silos don't exist yet :P
#
tantek hmm - I think this could work with Flickr
#
tantek since I think you can leave a comment on a photo via Flickr's API
#
snarfed definitely!
#
tantek (whereas obv not with FB)
#
snarfed kylewm's building it right now
#
tantek so if C chose to POSSE their comment on A, to the copy of A's post on Flickr, then ...
#
tantek wait - Flickr does not notify you if a phot you're tagged in gets a comment
#
snarfed sure. that's exactly what we did on FB
#
snarfed hmm. i posted my link here while things were rebooting, did it maybe not make it through? https://snarfed.org/silo-swat0-on-facebook
#
snarfed no matter
#
tantek a-ha this is the manual step for now: 4b. Kyle POSSEs the comment to Facebook.
#
tantek since we can't do that with the API any more right?
#
tantek but that outline looks good!
#
snarfed he has a trick up his sleeve for wed
#
tantek wat
#
snarfed indeed
#
tantek I wonder if it would be easier if A was indie web + POSSE to FB
#
tantek but B and C were both FB-only
#
snarfed oh sure! strictly easier
#
tantek why not do that first and claim two site / two implementation silo SWAT0
#
snarfed sure!
#
tantek purely by the book
#
tantek I feel like that alone is a worthy accomplishment
#
tantek because it proves that a single indieweb site can federate with FB
#
tantek that's a very powerful conclusion
#
snarfed we've already done this one. we'll do it again with a fully automatic comment posse
#
snarfed but yeah, we can also do B+C FB-only
#
tantek I feel like it's a good build-up
#
snarfed existing POSSE + backfeed + facebook-atom already show full integration, right?
#
snarfed no need for SWAT0 for that
#
tantek I mean you could even start with noting that this all works easily if everyone is inside FB
#
tantek but the key of SWAT0 is to test federation across two or more sites
#
snarfed sure
#
tantek that makes for a nice narrative
#
tantek still, really interested to see "fully automatic comment posse"
#
snarfed we'll plan to do it on wed at least one way, maybe more
#
snarfed and i'll happily let you frame it
#
tantek the overall narrative is that we have found a way for people to incrementally go indieweb without losing touch with their friends
#
tantek the first person that goes indieweb, can still do SWAT0 with their friends on FB
#
tantek having shown that that works, they convince a second person (of that three) to go indieweb, and then they can do 2 indieweb + 1 silo SWAT0
#
tantek the hope is that convinces the 3rd person, who then also goes indieweb which then gets us to the July 2015 accomplishment
#
snarfed nice!
#
tantek first photo post with automatic POSSEing to FB & Twitter but WITHOUT the IG link in the text content! http://tantek.com/2015/320/t1/complete-signal-loss (cleaner POSSE copies too)
#
snarfed tantek++
#
@thelibstyles writing my own css/html scheme to suit my needs. light, no java, responsive, quick and easy build with #doityourself #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/666517388280524800)
#
kevinmarks_ "9:00:07 PM Loqi has quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds." uh oh
#
snarfed slack too
#
@franatique "Quietly, some geeks are decentralizing the net. Again. Who are they?" A great collection of interviews : http:///interviews/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/666530125412999168)
#
@voxpelli Two year anniversary for the Homebrew Website Club this week and we will host Malmö’s third one today: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-17-homebrew-website-club Join! (twitter.com/_/status/666584847150903297)
#
@poddychan #create http://www.amazon.co.uk/Podcasting-Nutshell-Everything-Podcast-nothing-ebook/dp/B00VDCP4V4/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1442592728&sr=1-1&keywords=podcasting+j+mac ALLi Insights: Reaching Readers through Wattpad Video and Podcast - http://traffic.shareaholic.com/e?a=1&u=http://www.selfpublishingadvice.org/alli-insights-reaching-readers-through-wattpad/%3Futm_campaign%3Dshareaholic%26utm_medium%3Dtwitter%26utm_source%3Dsocialnetwork&r=1 via indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/666611240458985472)
Loqi and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk Welcome back Loqi!
j12t, uranther, tantek and shiflett joined the channel
#
petermolnar greatest mysteries of indieweb: what does Loqi do when he(?) is not here?
#
tantek Loqi, do you sleep, perchance to dream?
#
petermolnar Loqi what is an electric sheep?
#
tantek huh, weird copy-paste emoji bug from IG
#
tantek weird, and editing a FB photo post on their desktop web UI removes emojis from the description!
#
tantek checking mobile safari...
#
@blaine @benwerd fundamentally this problem you're addressing is why I don't believe in the #indieweb approach. (twitter.com/_/status/666660404244910080)
#
tantek too bad blaine focuses on what he doesn't believe in, rather than what he does
#
tantek ... believe in
#
tantek not believing = inaction = you get nothing done
#
tantek believe in yourself = motivation = you get *something* done
#
tantek let that be a lesson, cynics
mlncn joined the channel
#
tantek looks for handy matrix quote
#
aaronpk This is really the core issue blaine has with indiewebcamp tho: https://twitter.com/blaine/status/666660535816077313
#
@blaine @benwerd building for self where self = capable web hackers isn't scalable. Never will be. (twitter.com/_/status/666660535816077313)
#
aaronpk which is a slight misinterpretation of /principles
#
tantek again, he's negative reasoning, which, gets nothing done ;)
#
tantek right, negative reasoning often results in misinterpretation
#
@benwerd @blaine Strongly agree. I think much of the indieweb does too. It *has* shown itself to be an okay way to prototype protocols. (twitter.com/_/status/666661305646886912)
#
tantek or convincing yourself to give up
#
tantek meanwhile we're figuring out cross-site person-tagging
#
@jgmac1106 @blaine @benwerd I diagree. As a non-technical user I think the #indieweb POSSE model works to supplement not supplant modern channels (twitter.com/_/status/666661619506761728)
#
tantek nice
#
aaronpk maybe this is the misleading sentence: "Build tools for yourself, not for all of your friends."
#
aaronpk it's more like "You should be the #1 user of software you build."
#
aaronpk it's fine to build things for your friends, but you'd better be using it too!
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
upon2020.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "Fixed dates" (view diff)
#
@jgmac1106 @blaine @benwerd Just think the #indieweb will naturally gravitate to modern social networks whose read/write APIs best align to values. (twitter.com/_/status/666663657280020480)
#
tantek really pleased with photo post POSSEing
#
upon2020.com created /Template:j12t (+153) "Not sure what I'm doing, just copying t's template" (view diff)
#
tantek this most recent photo with a bunch of emoji in the caption display/presents better on my site than *either* Twitter or Facebook
#
upon2020.com edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (+11) "added myself" (view diff)
#
tantek * copies
#
kylewm tantek++ (reading back your reaction to blaine's tweets)
#
Loqi tantek has 259 karma
petermolnar, tantek and snarfed joined the channel
#
Jeena Gothenburgers, scandinavians, and everyone else who wants to join, tomorrow we are at the Steampunk Bar in Gothenburg for the Homebrew Website Club if you want to join https://jeena.net/events/9
#
tantek totally misread that at first as Goth & burgers
#
Jeena We have many Goths and Burgers too in Gothenburg ;)
#
tantek Jeena, if you ever want to open a restaurant ^^^
#
ben_thatmustbeme hah
#
Jeena haha :D
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'd totally go there
#
tantek where it's all goth themed, the workers are goth-outfitted etc.
#
voxpelli Hi from HWC Malmö :)
#
tantek there's lots of red in burger places already so this seems like not a big stretch
#
tantek hello voxpelli !!!
#
tantek tbrb: how's Edinburg?
#
tantek s/Edinburg/Edinburgh
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: tbrb: how's Edinburgh?
#
tbrb Wet, haha. Just me right now, it's coursework season for most people around here, so lots of people busy with that
#
Jeena nice voxpelli! I am sorry that it takes so much time for me with the swat0 thing but yeah, I'm still working on it
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh, more people working on swat0 ?
#
voxpelli Jeena: I've been pretty occupied with work lately, so I'm not really there as well
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: yep
#
Jeena yeah, voxpelli wanted me to do a swedish swat0 but it kind of takes its time
#
tantek Jeena: how close are you and which player role are you doing?
#
tantek same for you voxpelli which SWAT0 player role are you trying to achieve?
#
voxpelli tantek: A and B and I'm pretty much there – some push notifications, polish and people-tagging parsing might remain I think
#
Jeena I'm a bit stuck on salmentions
#
Jeena and I'll be able to do A or B
#
voxpelli I've salmentions working
#
tantek voxpelli++ great!
#
Loqi voxpelli has 55 karma
#
tantek Jeena: can you do C instead?
#
Jeena I mean, I can do C with http://reader.kylewm.com/ which is a bit like cheating but still ok
#
Jeena but I really want to have salmentions working on my website
shiflett_, gRegorLove and fkooman joined the channel
#
harryreeder.co.uk created /User:Harryreeder.co.uk (+1267) "Begin my user page "v1"" (view diff)
#
tantek tbrb++ !
#
Loqi tbrb has 10 karma
#
tbrb First goal of tonight done :)
#
tantek.com edited /AWS (+517) "dfn, abbr, also cryptic jargon with citation" (view diff)
lukebrooker and stream7 joined the channel
#
bret.io uploaded /File:uaap9.jpg "too many aws acronyms"
#
bret.io edited /AWS (+20) (view diff)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /AWS (+294) "float, why, how to, indieweb examples" (view diff)
#
bret i think kevinmarks_ uses S3 and maybe others
#
tantek we could instead link to all the pages for individual services and add there
#
aaronpk I use S3 and Lambda
#
tantek what is S3?
#
tantek what is Lambda?
#
Loqi Amazon S3 is a file hosting service from Amazon https://indiewebcamp.com/S3
#
Loqi Lambda is a service from Amazon Web Services that runs individual functions of code rather than running a server https://indiewebcamp.com/Lambda
#
voxpelli PuSH for Drupal is released now: http://blog.superfeedr.com/drupal-pubsubhubbub-multiping/ Supports pinging for both RSS and HTML
#
tantek what is Drupal?
#
Loqi Drupal is a popular open source content management system https://indiewebcamp.com/Drupal
#
tantek voxpelli: perhaps add the PuSH for Drupal to ^^^ ?
#
tantek mlncn: what do you think of PuSH for Drupal ?
#
voxpelli Will try to remember to do that once I reach a computer again. On my way home from HWC now
z1, funwhilelost, snarfed and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek interesting that two photo posts in a row makes FB aggregate them into a "added to album" post on my profile
#
tantek I think I prefer the IG treatment of showing them in a stream
#
tantek perhaps there is a threshold beyond which it makes sense from a usability/UX perspective to cluster a series of photo posts like that in a home page stream
lukebrooker and z1 joined the channel
#
aaronpk there is certainly a threshold, and it's the reason I don't want my whole flickr/camera roll stream to go to my website as a stream
#
tantek I'm going to keep posting photos until I "feel" that threshold personally
#
tantek and then think about what kind of aggregation makes sense (e.g. temporal, geographical, etc.)
#
tantek s/aggregation/clustering
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: and then think about what kind of clustering makes sense (e.g. temporal, geographical, etc.)
cleverdevil joined the channel
#
tantek e.g. what's odd about FB's clustering is that it only clustered 2 out of my 3 recent sequential photo posts
#
GWG Tantek, I would like to collect now
#
GWG At IWC, I was demonstrating how I was parsing Microformats and populated fields in a reply/bookmark/etc
KevinMarks, loic_m, eschnou and Gold joined the channel
#
GWG Based on feedback from someone else, I am wondering how to balance the automatic importing of data
#
mlncn PuSH looks great! Now, to use it!
ttepasse and snarfed joined the channel
#
@LukasRosenstock "The counterintuitive, GIF-tastic plan to redeem the modern Internet": https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/11/10/the-counterintuitive-gif-tastic-plan-to-redeem-the-modern-internet/?utm_content=buffer22e23&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #indieweb #nostalgia (twitter.com/_/status/666707772856262656)
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek GWG, auto-filling fields is definitely an interesting design problem!
#
tantek Happy to help :)
#
GWG So, how do you balance convenience with control?
#
GWG I want to make it easy to like. Filling out dozens of fields raises the barrier, but sometimes the data is bad.
#
tantek the key is to keep track of which fields has the user edited
#
tantek if the user has changed a field, then do not auto-(re)fill it
#
@LukasRosenstock @jgmac1106 @blaine @benwerd A good centralized support system for the #indieweb would've been @AppDotNet but nobody believes it it anymore. (twitter.com/_/status/666709764450164737)
#
tantek Also it fell behind in supporting indieweb /friendly formats & protocols
#
GWG In this scenario, acegiak does not want certain fields added in. And I understand that totally
#
GWG Sometimes I might not want that.
tvn joined the channel
#
tantek which fields?
#
GWG Trying to figure out the logic since my goal is make things easier
#
GWG p-summary of a URL
#
tantek rather than approach the design by "not want certain fields added" - do the opposite, ask her what fields she *does* want added
#
tantek (what I should have asked instead of "which fields")
#
tantek and same for you
#
GWG I intend to, just contemplating it in the interim.
#
tantek what fields must you absolutely have
#
GWG For example, does it vary by type?
#
tantek building up from something minimal / simple is much more effective than starting with a kitchen sink and trying to cut out
#
tantek assume not until you have a concrete specific use-case need for "vary by type"
#
GWG I started with everything manual and now I am automating the storing of data, which means I need to think about how to use it
mlncn joined the channel
#
tantek did you document what you were manually doing?
#
GWG Good point. I did not,it only exists in my head.
#
tantek if you write down your manual steps, it will help clarify the requirements for automation
#
tantek what do you call this feature?
nitot, lukebrooker and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek !tell snarfed,kylewm upon brainstorming and trying some mock text entering UIs, I'm now convinced that a UI aspect/field/affordance for adding/indicating person-tags *separate* from just typing into the content field is both *ok* and desirable.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
mlncn joined the channel
#
tantek thus I will likely be publishing my person-tags *outside* my e-content
#
tantek (but obv inside my h-entry)
#
tantek and I am *ok* with "legacy" readers not seeing the person-tags. One more thing that is better on my site than downlevel RSS/Atom etc.
#
tantek Thus this should work exactly correctly for POSSEing person-tags to FB, and NOT having them duplicated inside the content of the post
#
snarfed yay!
#
Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message on 11/17 at 12:38pm: upon brainstorming and trying some mock text entering UIs, I'm now convinced that a UI aspect/field/affordance for adding/indicating person-tags *separate* from just typing into the content field is both *ok* and desirable. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447792717587
#
Loqi woot
#
tantek Now that being said, I also came up with some decent fallback behavior to suggest for Bridgy Publish POSSE person-tags to Twitter
#
tantek documenting now in a new github issue just for Twitter
#
tantek "fallback" as in does not require Twitter to support actual person-tags in their API
#
snarfed hmm i wonder if it should go in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/459
#
snarfed maybe i don't understand what you mean by fallback though
#
tantek commenting there first :)
#
snarfed thanks!
#
tantek snarfed, what is the usual thing for fallback?
#
snarfed i don't understand what that means in this context
#
tantek learns not to trigger Loqi ;)
#
tantek what is the fallback for fallback behavior?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fallback for fallback behavior" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107M
#
tantek The fallback for fallback behavior is to figure out [[plain text design]] for a feature as the fallback for that feature.
#
loqi.me created /fallback_for_fallback_behavior (+144) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447793096742 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
snarfed ohh i'm guessing you mean injecting twitter person tags into the tweet text?
#
tantek correct
#
tantek rather, twitter @-mentions to be precise
#
tantek since twitter API lacks twitter person tags support (for now)
friedcell and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
tantek hmm - I suppose I should document the plain-text fallback on /person-tag rather than just github
#
tantek wow this might be the first feature for which I'm brainstorming both/separate Plain text authoring and plain text "presentation"!
#
@mothersele is there a service for testing webmentions? a fake endpoint? (twitter.com/_/status/666722239388246017)
#
tantek what is a service for testing webmentions?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "service for testing webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107N
#
tantek someone want to stub that so it's googleable in the future?
#
tantek pretty sure there's already a list you can redirect to on /webmention
mlncn and cleverdevil- joined the channel
#
ollehost.dk created /Template:olleolleolle (+132) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|http://ollehost.dk/faces/8.jpg}}[[User:Ollehost.dk|Olle Jonsson" target="_blank">User:Ollehost.dk|Olle" target="_blank">http://ollehost.dk/faces/8.jpg}}[[User:Ollehost.dk|Olle Jonsson]]</span>"" (view diff)
#
ollehost.dk edited /events/2015-11-17-homebrew-website-club (+19) "/* Malmö */ Added Me to the list" (view diff)
#
tantek nice!
#
kylewm.com created /person_tags (+24) "Redirected page to [[person-tag]]" (view diff)
#
tantek !tell olleolleolle welcome!
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
kylewm.com created /person-tags (+24) "Redirected page to [[person-tag]]" (view diff)
#
tantek hmm - are there example.com equivalents of twitter names?
#
tantek to use in examples that don't actually link to anyone?
#
tantek but exist as accounts that people can't take etc.?
#
tantek tries the obv
#
tantek " @examplecom hasn't tweeted yet. " sigh
#
aaronpk usually things like @auth @admin @twitter @login are reserved
#
tantek however those don't look like people's names
#
tantek "@ExampleNet hasn't tweeted yet. "
#
aaronpk neither does example.com ;)
#
tantek ROFL!!! https://twitter.com/ExampleOrg/status/375252866279026688
#
@ExampleOrg The whole office is breathing a sigh of relief as our new website goes live – http://www.example.org ^IR (twitter.com/_/status/375252866279026688)
olleolleolle and snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek 😂😂😂 kudos to whoever setup @exampleorg. Genius.
#
tantek "Arts Organization" because of course it's an "art" project.
#
olleolleolle OK, hi.
#
Loqi olleolleolle: tantek left you a message on 11/17 at 1:09pm: welcome! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447794562455
#
tantek "@exampleperson hasn't tweeted yet. "
#
aaronpk oh yeah you could use a name that is longer than the twitter length limit
#
tantek ;) https://twitter.com/Examplecorp/status/10823967275
#
@Examplecorp Glad to be followed (twitter.com/_/status/10823967275)
funwhilelost and hober joined the channel
#
kylewm is a person tag fundamentally different from any other u-category that points to an external url?
#
Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message on 11/17 at 12:38pm: upon brainstorming and trying some mock text entering UIs, I'm now convinced that a UI aspect/field/affordance for adding/indicating person-tags *separate* from just typing into the content field is both *ok* and desirable. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447792717587
#
tantek kylewm: yes
#
tantek especially in practice in both presentation and UI for entering them
#
tantek s/entering/entering&editing
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: especially in practice in both presentation and UI for entering&editing them
#
tantek oh sorry I stopped reading at "that points to an external url"
#
tantek cuts off his coffee for the day
#
tantek that's a longer philosophical question - we'll get to it later
#
kylewm there's a disconnect in the bridgy implemetnation, where it checks that the tag is of a "person"
#
tantek but if you want to think about a concrete specific example for now, FB has a notion of a "location tag" which is also effectively a URL
#
kylewm literally, activityStreams objectType="person"
#
tantek (and has separate UI etc.)
#
kylewm which in practice means you have to person tag with "*-category h-card"
#
tantek which we *could* distinguish with class="u-catgory h-card" vs class="u-category h-adr" or class="u-category h-geo"
#
tantek kylewm: sort of.
#
kylewm but why can't I just say #<a href="https://tantek.com" class="u-category">tantek.com</a>
#
aaronpk h-card can still refer to a venue
#
tantek you should person tag with "*-category h-card" however lacking the h-card we should presume person tag since that's the overwhelming biggest use-case by frequency etc.
#
Loqi I agree
#
tantek thank you Loqi
#
kylewm bigger than hashtags??
#
tantek we can instead require all other URL tags to use an object
#
tantek hashtags are not URLs, they are terms
#
tantek from the user perspective
#
tantek the user is simply reading (e.g. on tv, billboards, ads) a word or phrase
#
tantek and then typing it
#
tantek not a URL
#
tantek the URL of a hashtag is plumbing, not UX
#
kevinmarks_ they are expected to be clickable links though
#
tantek whereas person-tags have UI that *makes* you choose a specific profile (URL)
#
kylewm so say on a post, I have category=["hwc","https://tantek.com"] the onus is on me to figure out which of those are urls and treat the urls as people?
#
tantek KevinMarks: that's auto-linking
#
tantek yes
#
tantek (kylewm )
#
kylewm ok cool, that makes sense
#
tantek isURL is pretty easy - that's what the regex is for in cassis :)
ttepasse joined the channel
#
kylewm files a granary issue
#
tantek goes back to braindumping plain text presentation brainstorming in /person-tag
#
ben_thatmustbeme i want to work out storing images locally next i think
#
ben_thatmustbeme caching*
#
ben_thatmustbeme so my https isn't always showing insecure content on the page
#
aaronpk yeah!
#
aaronpk you don't need to cache them if your only goal is to get rid of the insecure content warning
#
ben_thatmustbeme well no, but i want to cache them as well
#
ben_thatmustbeme and replace the image whenever i get a new one
#
tantek.com edited /person-tag (+2601) "/* Brainstorming */ Plain text presentation braindump from plain plain text to auto-linked to tweet text" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme so when people change their image, it changes across all. just not sure how i decide that its "changed" when they have images in twitter and their site that are different
#
ben_thatmustbeme for example
#
ben_thatmustbeme naive attempt would have it changing constantly
eschnou joined the channel
#
tantek their site is canonical
#
ben_thatmustbeme thats an example case, but FB and twitter for example
#
kevinmarks_ wow https://developers.google.com/web/showcase/case-study/googleplus “We hit our goal of never downloading more than 60k of HTML, 60k of JavaScript and 60k of CSS at any one time!”
friedcell joined the channel
#
tantek huh - not last time I checked. I wonder when they expect to deploy that
#
tantek or how much "baked in" JS in Chrome that assertion depends on
#
kevinmarks_ I think they just switched over
#
kevinmarks_ "One of our major rules was that all our pages needed to be both server-side and client-side rendered. "
#
tantek bingo. someone there is listening to js;dr
#
tantek.com edited /person-tag (+153) "/* tweet text */ note Bridgy Publish feature request" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks_ their old page was 22M!
#
tantek !tell kylewm,snarfed Bridgy Publish person-tag to tweet text feature request captured https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/547 feedback welcome! Going back to coding now. :)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
kylewm treat url categories as objectType person https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/58
#
Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 5 minutes ago: Bridgy Publish person-tag to tweet text feature request captured https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/547 feedback welcome! Going back to coding now. :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-17/line/1447796497584
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
funwhilelost joined the channel
#
tantek kylewm: I like it. People first and by default. Everything else second and explicit.
#
kylewm tantek: thanks, i like it too. should it also support schemeless urls?
#
kylewm or rely on microformats parsers to figure that out
shiflett joined the channel
#
tantek not in the markup no
#
kylewm so #<span class="p-category">tantek.com</span> would not work
#
tantek I think schemeless -> withscheme URL conversion should be done in the editing and/or auto-linking publishing code
#
tantek correct
#
kylewm ok good
#
kylewm adding person tags to redwind is at the top of my itches now!
#
tantek awesome! it's a person-tag race for this week!
ttepasse joined the channel
#
aaronpk aw man I feel so out of this race since i'm still playing catch-up
#
tantek what?!? you built person-tag support into ownyourgram!
#
aaronpk accidentally?
#
tantek making it possible to post person-tags not just on your site, but on any micropub-supporting site that added that support to their endpoint.
#
tantek not accidentally at all! we totally brainstormed it as a deliberate act!
#
aaronpk oh yeah but that was a while ago
#
tantek are you doing a "what have you done for me lately?" to yourself?!?
#
aaronpk just annoyed that i haven't finished my new site
#
aaronpk i sure hope it's worth it in the end. rebuilding things from scratch is rarely worth it.
#
tantek the preview you showed me looked sweet
#
aaronpk it's definitely coming along!
#
werd.io edited /everything (+510) (view diff)
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk benwerd++
#
Loqi benwerd has 101 karma
#
tantek.com edited /lulz (+17) "everything" (view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /everything (+28) "like love and lulz" (view diff)
#
tantek benwerd++
#
Loqi benwerd has 102 karma
#
@voxpelli @mothersele Yes, check https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger and https://github.com/pfefferle/node-webmention-testendpoint (twitter.com/_/status/666741810434334720)
#
tantek voxpelli++ :)
#
Loqi voxpelli has 56 karma
#
@mothersele RT @mlncn: A first step in taking control of your online presence: Marking up Drupal's blog posts for the IndieWeb http://agaric.com/blogs/marking-drupals-blog-posts-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/666743556040716288)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] I need a better way to do hovercards for my person tags
#
[kevinmarks] Putting an iframe in for each one got really slow
#
werd.io created /services (+1008) "Created page with "{{stub}} A number of services exist to support the indie web community and the individuals and organizations that comprise it. == Hosted Services == === Syndication === * [[B..."" (view diff)
#
[kevinmarks] Browsers load even hidden iframes
#
tantek iframe on hover?
#
tantek of course after all that default to person-tagging discussion for u-category URLs I have a photo I'm about to post with an org and am feeling pretty darn mixed about *-tagging it
#
werd.io edited /services (+222) "/* Syndication */ Webmention.io and OwnYourGram" (view diff)
#
tantek or do we just give up and say orgs are just a special case of person, like the supreme court has?
#
tantek sees if benwerd is awake ;)
benwerd joined the channel
#
benwerd is awake
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 11/14 at 10:24am: re: turnitin plagiarism own domain - screenshots? can we document this on the wiki as being indieweb unfriendly? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-14/line/1447525482813
#
benwerd I actually got that tip-off from kevinmarks - but it was semi-confirmed by the university I was visiting this weekend (which doesn't use it)
#
tantek benwerd - good to know
#
tantek can you confirm you are available to present tomorrow at HWC SF?
#
tantek I remember you saying you had stuff you wanted to show
#
tantek is focusing on the positive first
#
tantek is procrastinating documenting the negative
#
benwerd Yep, I'm planning to be there
#
tantek.com edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (+273) "SF demo sign-up with benwerd to start with" (view diff)
#
tantek if anyone else coming to HWC SF has something to demo, add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club#SF_demo_sign-up
#
tantek I'll likely do so once I have confirmed I have person-tag posting and POSSE working
#
benwerd nice!
#
tantek kind of expecting it to surprise the heck out of my FB-only friends who are going to get tagged.
#
kevinmarks_ make iframe on hover using JS you mean tantek?
#
tantek yes - mutate from <a> to <iframe>
#
snarfed.org edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (+62) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
#
tantek kylewm: when you get person-tags working in RedWind, add yourself: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club#SF_demo_sign-up :)
#
tantek oh boy I highly suspect a Silo SWAT0 demo is coming up
snarfed, KevinMarks__, lukebrooker and funwhilelost joined the channel
#
@mothersele TDD webmention support in progress :) https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/666741810434334720 (twitter.com/_/status/666753598332751872)
benwerd joined the channel
#
@mothersele I wish I was POSSEing this. #indieweb support slowly becoming a priority for me (twitter.com/_/status/666754371900850176)
#
tantek that's the spirit!
modem_, stream7 and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
kylewm it's a challenge to include the silo-urls for each person tagged, e.g. https://kylewm.com/2015/11/2008-kristen-kyle
#
kylewm i may include them as invisible <a>'s
KevinMarks, snarfed1, gavinc and elima joined the channel
#
kylewm.com edited /person-tag (+183) "/* Jeena */" (view diff)
funwhilelost joined the channel