#indiewebcamp 2015-11-16

2015-11-16 UTC
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tantek e.g. https://brid.gy/instagram/tantek
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tantek oh I should do a recrawl now that I have syndication links!
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tantek hmm - I can [ Poll now ]
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tantek but nothing on https://brid.gy/instagram/tantek that I can see to recrawl my website for syndication links
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tantek snarfed - re: surprised - one thing I've considered is building a (semi-)private "notifications" page that aggregates all my webmentions for me to quickly check (like a dashboard), before I build the per-page displaying stuff (which I think is more work)
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[snarfed] makes sense
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[snarfed] re recrawling, ux is hard :P https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/538#issuecomment-154860428
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[snarfed] short answer: right now the response retry buttons trigger it
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tantek totally fine :)
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[snarfed] I'd love suggestions though. i have no ux instincts
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tantek I'm starting with documenting an FAQ :)
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[snarfed] i deliberately waited to see what you'd try
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[snarfed] hah good point
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GWG snarfed: A lot of have no ux instincts
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tantek we're all here to work on that :)
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[snarfed] it can definitely be learned
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tantek GWG, that puts you way ahead of most developers, who don't even know that they have no ux instincs.
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GWG Well, what is one step above no, but well below average?
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GWG I've worked with near computer illiterate people for many years. I know how to anticipate their issues.
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GWG That may fall into that category
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tantek GWG, developing such empathy is *essential* for becoming good at UX
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tantek so you're even farther along than you may realize
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GWG Well, it is little empathy
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tantek snarfed: hmm - didn't see any recrawl from clicking the "reload" button next to my most recent "Responses" item
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tantek on https://brid.gy/instagram/tantek
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snarfed ah, it's reluctant if it's never found a synd url for you before
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snarfed i can consider changing that
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tantek yes it would have never found a syndication URL to IG for me before today :)
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GWG I wonder if I should join Instagram
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tantek GWG - some of us have found it to be a useful client for posting - since you have Micropub support, you may want to consider a private IG account purely as a client for ownyourgram/micropub to your own site
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tantek right now I'm manually PESOSing from IG to my site, and then automatically POSSEing that to FB & Twitter with Bridgy Publish
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snarfed silosasplumbing++
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Loqi silosasplumbing has 3 karma
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tantek.com edited /Bridgy (+514) "/* FAQ */ How do I recrawl my site" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed: feel free to edit/correct me! https://indiewebcamp.com/Bridgy#How_do_I_recrawl_my_site
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GWG I haven't gotten Micropub Photo Posting set up.
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tantek I'd say do that first
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tantek and I think Quill can do photo posts
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GWG It's on my list as part of the rewrite I'm trying to do to get to unit testing, which I promised snarfed.
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tantek I'll add a /Instagram#Why section summarizing what I said
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GWG snarfed: Did I tell you what I was doing?
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snarfed maybe?
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GWG Your design had the generation of data directly called by the query parser. I switched it, partly to make the unit tests easier, to being attached to the before and after micropub hooks you had.
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snarfed ok. seeing actual code will probably help
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GWG snarfed: Soon\
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snarfed woo, bridgy publish FB person tagging works!
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snarfed pushing now
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+966) "add why section with Indie photo posting client, PESOS" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, re: should I join Instagram, now documented for you: https://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram#Why
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snarfed done! feel free to try
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tantek snarfed: ok, commented on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/538#issuecomment-154860428 with a UX suggestion :)
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[snarfed] thanks!
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tantek.com edited /like (+209) "/* Silo Examples */ Twitter since 2015-11-03" (view diff)
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[snarfed] yeah, i considered that. trying to minimize separate user actions/affordances. maybe this deserve one, but I'm not sure
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tantek I figured as an inline button it would be pretty unobtrusive - as much as the subtle [ Poll now ] button is
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[snarfed] true
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[snarfed] looking fwd to your first person tag POSSE now!
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tantek as an inline UI element, it's pretty easily missable/skippable (which is what you want in such a specific user action/affordance)
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tantek such a Crawl Now button would only really stand out if you were reading the specific "web site crawled... " text - in which case it is contextually relevant
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tantek wow I need to document my brainstorms for plain text person-tag authoring!
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tantek so I can implement it
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tantek it's kind of like the TDD equivalent for UX
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tantek DDD - documentation driven design
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tantek snarfed: I'm wondering if the Bridgy Publish FB person tagging will have the side-effect of working for page-tagging too
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snarfed tantek: maybe, if the fb api allows that
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snarfed the docs say "people" but who knows
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snarfed https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.2/user/feed#publish
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tantek looks for snarfed's mention in his notifications, and gets "The link you followed may be broken, or the page may have been removed."
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snarfed huh interesting. i published it with privacy "just you"
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snarfed it showed you anyway? i guess since you were tagged
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tantek oh! so you didn't delete it?
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snarfed no, i did
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snarfed just surprised you saw it in the first place
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snarfed facebook ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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tantek yeah, it showed up in my "globe" notifications drop down
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mblaney hello
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tantek snarfed, on my https://www.facebook.com/notifications I see: "Ryan Barrett tagged you in a post."
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snarfed thx. makes sense.
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mblaney It's funny reading back, I added person-tags to my reader yesterday.
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tantek to your *reader*?!?
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tantek what does that mean?
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snarfed i expect what aaronpk mentioned earlier
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snarfed rendering
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tantek he was brainstorming though
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mblaney unicyclic.com/mal/reader
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mblaney I did that because it was displaying "array" instead of a category for one of aaronpk
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mblaney aaronpk's posts
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tantek interesting
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snarfed tantek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery :P
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mblaney so I looked into it and realised I wasn't parsing the h-card for the category, which it does now :-)
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tantek snarfed: hah - I think we're close enough to be not really be considered independent ;)
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tantek mblaney that's great!
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snarfed eh maybe. many scientific communities are similar, and still accept it when it happens
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mblaney now I can consume person-tags, but can't tag anyone myself.... so now I want to add that.
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tantek I think given that we're in the same IRC channel and use the same wiki it's less surprising ;)
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tantek mblaney - hah - love it
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snarfed remembers writing https://snarfed.org/2013-04-30_people-dont-matter#independently
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tantek the problem with the "it's the environment!" excuse is that if that were so, then it should apply to everyone in such environments - which in practice it doesn't
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tantek thus it doesn't matter if people are product of their environment (as in "so what?"), because everyone is, and thus it doesn't in anyway lessen the contributions of individuals
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snarfed it definitely matters when your job is making public policy
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snarfed "get rid of the bad apples" vs "change the systemic incentives" are extremely different answers to problems
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snarfed and a bit mutually exclusive
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tantek really? I see them as strongly complementary!
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snarfed nah. there will *always* be bad apples
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snarfed the current crop is never unique
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tantek e.g. here in IndieWebCamp, we have /code-of-conduct to keep out / get rid of bad apples
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tantek and we have /principles to change the systemic incentives
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snarfed well, and also techniques to try to reorient them
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snarfed right
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tantek I believe both are essential
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tantek and strongly complementary
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snarfed eh. i guess i just believe much more in incentives and systems than exceptional individuals (on either end)
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snarfed but that's just me
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tantek if the incentives and systems were so powerful then they would have affectted more of the people that are surrouned by them
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tantek the fact that only a few stand out is evidence in and of itself that something special is going on
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snarfed incentives are always powerful, we just rarely tune them right to get the ends we want
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tantek ^^^ but that's exactly why individual achievement is remarkable - because such incentives are rarely tuned anyway!
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snarfed sure. again though, when i think about whole ecosystems, i want to think about incentives to get better results from *everyone*, rather than fetishizing the exceptional people
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tantek snarfed - agreed - incentives to get better results from people by default is better UX design, and more sustainable :)
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tantek historically speaking, I'm more in Einstein's camp: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#1940s
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snarfed if that post interested you, you may also like https://snarfed.org/2013-04-13_the-no-network-effect (but it's a bit long)
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tantek snarfed, I do strongly believe in structure/incentives/culture as an important baseline and in practice what matters the most, hence when there are individuals that are able to consciously go against and think outside those default, *and* achieve, that I think it is worth noting
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snarfed sure!
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tantek popping back to page-tagging
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tantek the next photo I have queued up to post has no people in it, but is of a red starbucks cup (decorated), thus if I was going to tag it with anything I would tag it with #starbucks.com(@starbucks,Facebook/Starbucks)
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tantek ^^^ yes that's a bit of brainstorm syntax for plain-text multi-url-identity-tagging
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snarfed just fyi for bridgy publish right now you'd need to use their page (user) id, which may be hard to find :(
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tantek sure, that "Facebook/Starbucks" in the plain text would be converted by auto_link to <a class="u-category" href="https://www.facebook.com/Starbucks/">(f icon)</a>
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tantek is that what you mean by page (user) id?
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[snarfed] no, sorry. the actual numeric id.
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[snarfed] fb apps can't look up users, pages, etc by username
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[snarfed] part of preventing multiple apps from joining their fb user dbs
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[snarfed] https://snarfed.org/2015-10-25_de-anonymizing-facebooks-app-scoped-ids
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tantek dang
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[snarfed] welcome to our hell :P
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tantek trying some view source
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tantek got it. <meta property="al:android:url" content="fb://page/22092443056" />
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tantek haha - this works: https://www.facebook.com/22092443056
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Loqi hahaha
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tantek is that the id you need?
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tantek btw - that's WITHOUT being logged in
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tantek https://www.facebook.com/Starbucks/ -> "<meta property="al:android:url" content="fb://page/..." -> ... = 22092443056 -> https://www.facebook.com/22092443056
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tantek which redirects to the more user-friendly /Starbucks URL
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tantek thus is still user-clickable
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[snarfed] yup that may work
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[snarfed] or may not since they haven't authed bridgy
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tantek so the question remains is <a class="u-category" href="https://www.facebook.com/22092443056">f</a> good enough for Bridgy Publish to use fo page-tagging?
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[snarfed] "fb api: who knows? "
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tantek lol
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[snarfed] i think you also need h-card
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[snarfed] after that, it's fb's fault
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tantek sure - but if I *only* used the FB URL for the page-tag
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tantek that should still work without the h-card right?
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[snarfed] i think bridgy trigger needs h-card too, but not sure
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[snarfed] try without and see
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[snarfed] haven't doced yet :P
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tantek heh ok - I'll try most minimal first :)
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tantek lazinessdrivendevelopment++
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Loqi lazinessdrivendevelopment has 1 karma
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tantek LDD++
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Loqi LDD has 1 karma
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[snarfed] nm, yes, i think it does need h-card
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+2190) "/* Brainstorming */ Plain text authoring, hashpersontags, multi-profile person-tags" (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa, new facebook news feed option
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aaronpk now in addition to following someone, you can click "see first" and their new posts will show up at the top of the news feed when you open it
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tantek snarfed aaronpk shaners: documented some of my brainstorming thoughts on plain text person tag authoring: https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#Plain_text_authoring
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tantek aaronpk - sounds like a useful /reader feature!
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aaronpk maybe. I actually prefer my method of having multiple channels I follow
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tantek both are sensible
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tantek am going to go to some in-person clean-up while I let that brainstorm simmer and come back to it
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tantek aaronpk: see above about snarfed getting person-tagging working in Bridgy Publish to FB, and about the page id limitation
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tantek snarfed: wait does that mean Bridgy Publish person-tagging needs e.g. facebook.com/214611 instead of facebook.com/tantek.celik ?
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tantek (also available by same not-logged in curl / view source -> <meta property="al:android:url" content="fb://profile/..." )
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tantek except /profile/ for person instead of /page/ for corp
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tantek either way - same id space as fb.com/id works
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tantek (for linking to it to redirect to the named page)
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tantek I feel like solving cross-silo person-tagging is a major federated social web use-case that pretty much no one else is thinking about or solving with any serious attempt (certainly no one else in W3C Social Web WG has gotten that far outside of the indiewebcamp explorations)
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[snarfed] tantek: bridgy person tagging uses domains and fb usernames when it knows them for a bridgy user
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[snarfed] otherwise yes, numeric id
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[snarfed] eyes https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0
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tantek thus the simplest test would be a photo of a single person that is a bridgy user that has signed into Bridgy with FB
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[snarfed] you don't even need the photo
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[snarfed] my test post didn't have one :P
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tantek sure. photo is the more compelling use case for person-tagging :)
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tantek and hopefully Twitter too - so that from that person's personal URL, Bridgy Publish can person-tag them on both FB and Twitter (though I guess that latter half still needs Twitter API support for person-tagging people in Twitter photo posts)
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[snarfed] yup. which will likely never exist, based on taking with people there
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kylewm @snarfed: up for reviewing some pull requests? O:)
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[snarfed] of course!
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[snarfed] Flickr?
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kylewm snarfed++ github contributions in the last year 1,337 total
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tantek snarfed I remain optimistic about peer-pressuring Twitter into better API support, especially if we get silo SWAT0 working with FB
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Loqi snarfed has 168 karma
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[snarfed] ugh i need a life
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kylewm I was just excited bout the number
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[snarfed] you'd never know i have 1 yr old :P
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tantek snarfed lol would love to respond to that over drinks
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kylewm l33t h4x0r and all that
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[snarfed] tantek: love your optimism, but from talking to actual decision makers there, it's unlikely, just FYI
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[snarfed] kylewm: ahh funny!
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tantek hah - actual decision makers at Twitter have a short half-life these days
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tantek timing is certainly part of the game
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[snarfed] heh true! an even worse sign
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kylewm all you have to do is convince them that API improvements will grow their user base
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kylewm easy peasey
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tantek turnover is a good thing - it means you every once in a while you get another chance to ask anew
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[snarfed] kylewm++ https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/pull/545
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Loqi kylewm has 261 karma
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kylewm (I was hoping I'd get it done before you finished facebook person tagging ;P)
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[snarfed] continuousintegration++ too. https://circleci.com/gh/snarfed/bridgy , <https://circleci.com/gh/snarfed/granary>
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Loqi continuousintegration has 1 karma
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[snarfed] heh. Flickr publish is definitely bigger
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kylewm well, I was counting on unexpected Facebook nonsense
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kylewm lemme rebase the bridgy pr
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[snarfed] hah safe bet
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@CallmeUpdates Twitter sponsors #demdebate, candidates say go #indieweb: Twitter sponsors #demdebate, candidates say go #indi... http://hazk.a.boysofts.com/1N7s (twitter.com/_/status/666096409184092160)
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[snarfed] wow github PRs are unusable on mobile web
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[snarfed] 10-20s hangs
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[snarfed] (the app is great, except you can't leave inline comments on commits :/ )
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tantek I think I'm going to end up staying up late hacking again on photo posts and in particular person-tagging
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+99) "Brainstorming - related person-tag plain text authoring" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+4) "/* Plain text authoring */ linky" (view diff)
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@Takyou_Allah Twitter sponsors #demdebate, candidates say go #indieweb https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://tantek.com/2015/318/t2/twitter-sponsors-demdebate-candidates-indieweb&ct=ga&cd=CAIyGjFjNzNhNDBhYWQzZTAyYjY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNFI91Soowpq8e3qao8PWCUmw_MRWg (twitter.com/_/status/666110818526736387)
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@AdfrescoSponsor RT @Takyou_Allah: Twitter sponsors #demdebate, candidates say go #indieweb https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://tantek.com/2015/318/t2/twitter-sponsors-demdebate-candidates-indieweb&ct=ga&cd=CAIyGjFjNzNhNDBhYWQzZTAyYjY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNFI91Soowpq8e3qao8PWCUmw_MRWg (twitter.com/_/status/666126828340408321)
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kylewm is there a distinction b/t "photo with a title and caption" vs. "photo with a title" in implied post-type stuff?
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kylewm note-like-photo vs. article-like-photo
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kylewm in particular, how should one map a 'photo' post to Flickr which has title and description
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tantek hey kylewm
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tantek modern photo posting practices have dropped the title & caption distinction
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tantek so the question is what to do about the legacy
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tantek checks the Flickr mobile app to see what it does
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kylewm (in general, i'm glad they did, i always found titling photos on Flickr laborious)
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tantek kylewm indeed - not sure if you ever saw my photos on Flickr which all had the default title of whatever filename my camera gave the photos
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tantek btw no need to use implied post-type for this
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tantek once you determine that something is a photo post
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tantek you can use your usual logic for whether the name is actually relevant compared to the content
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tantek and if it is, use name for the Flickr title. Either way use content for the Flickr description.
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kylewm oh! that's different than I expected
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tantek really? what did you expect?
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kylewm i was using the content as the title (when there is no explicit title)
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tantek ugh no - Flickr titles are super inconvenient / ugly
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kylewm wonder if we could get a tiebreaking vote
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tantek well you also said "always found titling photos on Flickr laborious"
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tantek so that's 2-0 against Flickr title
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tantek what's the tie to break? ;)
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kylewm hehe
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kylewm checking adactio
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tantek haha
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tantek now that he POSSE's to Flickr
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tantek I wonder if he's dropped title too
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kylewm nope, he's doing content -> title
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tantek weird
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kylewm here's one that's pretty long https://www.flickr.com/photos/adactio/22484079837/in/dateposted/
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tantek i'm really going to screw this up when I POSSE to Flickr then
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tantek looks like he's making them tweet-like
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kylewm yeah you do longer captions on photos; those would not make for good titles
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tantek I don't really do captions - more like descriptions
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tantek e.g. on my IG - my descriptions are often posts in and of themselves - like paragraphs
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tantek gets an example
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kylewm http://tantek.com/2015/298/t1/portable-planetarium-sciencehackday-best-hardware
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tantek right
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tantek here's one on IG only: https://www.instagram.com/p/9clvWxg9S7/?taken-by=tantek
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kylewm this is really a challenge with bridgy publish; picking one way that works for >2 different people
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snarfed users are always the problem
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snarfed "no users, no cry"
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kylewm :)
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kylewm for shorter content, use it as the title, for longer content, use a truncated version as the title and include the full content in the body?
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tantek first sentence?
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kylewm I like that
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kylewm although I know how hard it was to get Loqi to recognize "a sentence"
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tantek I've long considered doing that for Twitter POSSEing
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tantek and including a permashortlink for any note longer than a sentence
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kylewm how do you feel about (<a href="...">Original</a>) for the permalink?
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tantek how about just re-use Bridgy's existing (Originally posted: ... ) ?
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tantek (from FB POSSE copies)
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kylewm since Flickr lets you embed limited HTML, I was thinking it'd be nicer to use a shorter tag
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tantek I think the lengthier URL with likely recognizable domain name and bigger hit-target is nicer from a promote-the-original perspective.
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tantek also the more consistent Bridgy behavior across silos feels more familiar / friendlier
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kylewm sgtm
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kylewm and that's what adactio and Known both appear to be doing
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kylewm Known -- Originally posted at URL, adactio -- just the URL
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kylewm ohh, ok what about flickr comments? same thing?
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tantek you going to add support for POSSEing replies to Flickr photos to Flickr as comments?!?
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tantek and Flickr favoriting for that matter too?
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kylewm yep!
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tantek there's more if you're on a roll
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kylewm person tags?
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tantek yes - tag-of responses in general
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tantek which could be tag-of or person-tag-of
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/tag-reply
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kylewm person tags?
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tantek lol yes
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tantek both tag tags and person tags
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tantek since Flickr does distinguish between the two
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kylewm heh, sorry for the duplicate text
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kylewm i'm two quick on the alt-tab, ctrl-p, enter
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kylewm too*
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tantek Filckr may be the first (only?) silo that has a concept (API?) of tagging someone else's posts
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tantek (since delicious died)
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kylewm trying to tag myself in benwerd's photo
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tantek you may need to be "friends" with benwerd to do that
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tantek to person-tag that is
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tantek whereas you can word/phrase tag *anyone's* photo by default (unless they have locked it down)
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tantek ok I'm still awake and thinking about https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#Plain_text_authoring
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petermolnar Google+ Photos rebranded & replaced as Google Photos - https://plus.google.com/+googleplus/posts/d1XubVAZ5hV - in case anyone is POSSEing pictures to that service
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@johnroberstorey @hectoriribarne Finally looked @ #mitm. I think it would help with your mobile / Ionic work. Also look @ #indiewebcamp & tell me if you want (twitter.com/_/status/666224140496609280)
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voxpelli Do anyone know any Heroku (or Surge.sh) like HTTP2-enabled services or any other way to easily add HTTP2 Push to ones site without having to manage the servers oneself?
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tantek what is Google+ Photos?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google+ Photos" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107D
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tantek what is Google Photos?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Photos" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107E
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tantek petermolnar: ^^^ I doubt anyone is POSSEing - perhaps create stubs for those?
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tantek what is HTTP2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HTTP2" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107F
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tantek voxpelli: ^^^
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voxpelli oh my, that's suprising
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GWG I have been experimenting with Google Photos as a backup
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tantek GWG - that's worth creating a small stub page for and stating that
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GWG I just started. I am moving to a four pronged backup
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[snarfed] tantek, this looks up your alley: https://adactio.com/journal/9814
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tantek bbiab - on W3C AB telcon
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GWG I wonder if having your content on several silos plus a local copy is the best backup strategy
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tantek what is LOCKSS
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Loqi LOCKSS is an acronym for Lots Of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe, a mnemonic for the technique of keeping and encouraging many copies of things as a way of improving their longevity https://indiewebcamp.com/LOCKSS
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tantek GWG ^^^
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Jeena do we have some information on what to do to get more people to come to the local HWCs?
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message on 11/11 at 10:20am: is Göteborg a go for next week HWC? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-11/line/1447266027870
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adactio.com edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (-12) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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tantek Jeena - perhaps check the /HWC page? If nothing there create a section on it!
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tantek e.g. speaking at other meetups on IndieWeb
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tantek personally inviting interested individuals to every meetup
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tantek posting an indie event and POSSE copies on various silos that your communities use (FB, Lanyrd, Eventbrite, etc.)
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adactio.com edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (-46) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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Jeena I'm a really bad salesman because I always feel that advertising is always like intruding peoples space and if I do it every other week they all will hate me for it
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tantek Jeena - in reality if it is invitations to events, the feedback I have gotten is the people really *like* being invited
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Jeena hm but speaking on other meetups about it would be cool I guess
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tantek it is the opposite of intrusion, but rather they feel *included*
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Jeena hm
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tantek socially, people want to feel invited and welcome to events
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tantek otherwise a lot of people by default feel they are not "the right people" or "welcome" or etc. at even "open" events
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tantek this is especially true for demographics beyond typical attendees
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tantek that kind of explicit outreach is particularly effective when you do so *personally*
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tantek e.g. in addition to adding people to a FB event etc.
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Jeena hm so inviting every person for them selves, not just dumping in a IRC channel I guess?
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tantek reaching out to people you've met in your broader communities over messaging systems
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tantek IM, etc.
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tantek Jeena - *yes* - inviting people for themselves
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Jeena hm ok
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tantek not just "hey everybody in this IRC channel"
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tantek or mailing list
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tantek those tend to feel more spammy
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Jeena I see
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Jeena yeah
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tantek it is a bit more work, however it is much more effective, and even if people don't come, you leave them feeling better by feeling included, and they may come after a few invitations
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tantek so even if they don't respond or decline, keep inviting them personally! hopefully you will at least have a chat with them.
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Jeena ok
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bear I find that it can take 2 or 3 invites before someone has your event in their minds enough to make room for it in the schedule they keep
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jeena.net edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (-6) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */ GOT regular plan" (view diff)
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tantek bear++ indeed
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Loqi bear has 83 karma
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tantek catching up on before
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tantek snarfed: nice link! yes that's very cool that we have a standards based way of providing the Add to Home Screen prompt
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tantek it's definitely very cool - yet I definitely still want the "show add to home screen prompt immediately" feature for the /contact use-case
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tantek kylewm: speaking of "original post" links in POSSE copies
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tantek From a brevity perspective I also like what adactio did here: https://medium.com/@adactio/home-screen-ffdda18b9de8
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tantek "This was originally posted on my own site."
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tantek where "on my own site" links to the original
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tantek perhaps we should collect examples of these?
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adactio tantek: I do the same from the Clearleft blog, and I put rel="canonical" on the "on my own site" link.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 11/11 at 10:20am: is Brighton a go for next week HWC? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-11/line/1447266026842
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tantek adactio: I like the rel=canonical usage - makes sense
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tantek adactio, while you're hrere, do you have a citable reference for the LOCKSS principle? Seems to be 15+ years old and web search engines tend to be bad at things that far in the past
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tantek s/hrere/here
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adactio tantek: There's a weird bug with Medium's rel="canonical" implentation: https://github.com/Medium/medium-api-docs/issues/19
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Loqi tantek meant to say: adactio, while you're here, do you have a citable reference for the LOCKSS principle? Seems to be 15+ years old and web search engines tend to be bad at things that far in the past
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adactio tantek: I don't have a good LOCKSS reference offhand. Lemmee see if I can find something...
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tantek adactio: one would think there would be lots of copies of the description LOCKSS Principle
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adactio http://www.lockss.org/
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tantek that's a specific project, not the principle
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tantek the principle predates that project
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tantek though the project now dominates web search results, thus occluding history
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tantek.com edited /Medium (+317) "/* Criticism */ Issues, buggy rel-canonical implementation" (view diff)
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tantek adactio: captured your issue there too ^^
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tantek please feel free to edit summary: https://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#buggy_rel-canonical_implementation
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acegiak GWG: how do I turn off the automatic populating thing in post kinds? I don't want there to be a citation content for this post but it keeps repopulating it :/
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message on 11/8 at 12:42pm: MF2 Parsing is working in development for Post Kinds. Needs work on the storage and display parameters http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-08/line/1447015324828
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tantek alright, time to name the thing again
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tantek what is an original post link
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "original post link" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107G
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tantek An original post link is a hyperlink from a [[POSSE]] copy to its original indieweb post.
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loqi.me created /original_post_link (+113) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-16/line/1447689267787 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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adactio.com edited /Medium (+166) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@hectoriribarne RT @johnroberstorey: @hectoriribarne Finally looked @ #mitm. I think it would help with your mobile / Ionic work. Also look @ #indiewebcamp… (twitter.com/_/status/666286140379561986)
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tantek.com edited /original_post_link (+2195) "expand with why, how to, indieweb examples, service examples, see also" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: ^^^ based on your questions last night about how to compose the text/link re: "originally posted on" etc. started a page about the feature with examples - please add more!
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tantek to all of those that POSSE and link back to their originals, please add yourselves! https://indiewebcamp.com/original_post_link#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+25) "see also original post link" (view diff)
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aaronpk huh I thought I had some things there already
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tantek aaronpk: it's a new page
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tantek specifically about that one feature of POSSE copies
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aaronpk s/there/on the wiki
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: huh I thought I had some things on the wiki already
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aaronpk about the "see original" link on facebook
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tantek oh yeah - maybe on /Facebook ?
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aaronpk ah http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE_to_Facebook#See_Original
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aaronpk there's also a mention here http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery#Algorithm
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+10) "/* Why */ no need to pick on two pieces of software which are shifting to try to federate with other solutions" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh and it looks like my "see original" links are gone
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tantek gone from where?
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aaronpk facebook
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tantek yikes
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aaronpk no longer displays the additional action
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tantek whoa - that's worth re-screenshotting and documenting
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aaronpk kylewm guessed right!
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tantek "may be shut down in the future"
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kylewm oh they've been gone for quite a while
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aaronpk shows you how often i pay attention to facebook
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kylewm still preserved in the API though
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aaronpk oh funny
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+23) "/* Algorithm */ linky" (view diff)
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@hectoriribarne Are there any upcoming @indiewebcamp s in Florida? If so, I would like to know. #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/666290229742051329)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+40) "/* In General */ original post link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+25) "/* Related */ opl" (view diff)
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@hectoriribarne RT @HongPong: the #indiewebcamp crew has helped patch things together @nathanairplane @erinroseglass @GNUsocial @joindiaspora @TwisterPtoP … (twitter.com/_/status/666290649126313984)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+23) "/* See Original */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /original_post_link (+37) "/* See Also */ POSSE_to_Facebook#See_Original" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /original_post_link (+175) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ many more on silo POSSE pages, incorporate here!" (view diff)
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tantek what is a service worker?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "service worker" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107H
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tantek adactio: ^^^ want to stub since you just blogged it?
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tantek https://adactio.com/journal/9775
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tantek (great post btw!)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (+171) ":, expanded location" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk hey Portland is the only HWC this week without a confirmed location! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club#Where - otherwise we have 6 total confirmed!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk on it!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message on 11/16 at 8:45am: hey Portland is the only HWC this week without a confirmed location! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club#Where - otherwise we have 6 total confirmed! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-16/line/1447692312976
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aaronpk this seems to happen more and more... i'm considering adding a threshold where Loqi silently deletes the !tell if the person replies within x seconds of it being created
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tantek heh - I thought you were going to say something about last minute PDX HWC venues "this seems to happen more and more..." ;)
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aaronpk that too
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-11-18-homebrew-website-club (+92) "add pdx" (view diff)
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rhiaro aaronpk: +1 to timing for !tell
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tantek great that we're doing 6 HWC again this week!
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tantek just added to Mozilla's weekly updates: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2015-11-16#Tuesday.2C_17_November
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tantek hey rhiaro - any chance you might be able to create a last minute HWC MIT with Sandro?
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tantek and make that 7 (would be a new record)
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tantek it would be a good week to start (2 year anniversary!)
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[snarfed] anniversary! tantek are you still planning on getting a cake?
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tantek I will at least get a cake myself
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tantek working on seeing if I can get some more food than that
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tantek so encourage your friends to RSVP please!
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[snarfed] cake is probably more than enough (imho)
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[snarfed] thank you!
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Jeena It's weird, I'm reading https://brooksreview.net/2015/11/slack-world/ and this guys whole life seems to be on slack, and I myself have an account but never use it for anything.
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk seems to actually be a lot about the style of communication Slack and IRC provides, text-based communication and communication in small groups
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aaronpk reminds me of my post http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/08/29/1/why-i-live-in-irc :-)
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Jeena hehe
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petermolnar aaronpk++ that IRC post is awesome
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Loqi aaronpk has 6 karma
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petermolnar heh, so Loqi's maxint is 999
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Loqi :)
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aaronpk thanks!
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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[erikstl] I used to live in IRC, though I don't think my residence there was as productive as yours.
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[erikstl] Once I started working for a place that blocked IRC ports, I realized my ability to stay here long-term was going to be seriously hampered.
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petermolnar you just need an ssl irc jumper on port 443
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Jeena [erikstl], we're fighting a client (we have to work at their office) to give us uncomplicated open internet
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petermolnar digitalocean -> vps -> install znc on port 443 -> done
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Jeena everyone there uses a http_proxy but we're using our own phones all day until they give us a open network
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Jeena petermolnar, as I am saying at work all the time, that is a technical sollution for a social problem, which is the company treats you like a child.
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petermolnar Jeena not disagreeing, just pointing out potential solutions
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Jeena ok
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[erikstl] fortunately, Slack has given me the temporary workaround, at least for this channel.
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[snarfed] slack++ yup. outside of work, these days I'm mostly here on slack on the phone
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Loqi slack has 3 karma
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kylewm I'm trying out Glowing Bear connected to weechat and it's pretty darn nice, although I'm not sure if it's doing the communications with weechat on the client side or server side
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aaronpk kylewm: i think glowing-bear.org is just an HTML/js client
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aaronpk huh i should try that
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aaronpk yeah "you can just use our hosted version powered by GitHub pages... Your browser connects to WeeChat directly, so it does not matter where Glowing Bear is hosted."
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snarfed aaronpk: just fyi your bridgy expired. https://brid.gy/facebook/11500459
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snarfed (i think the fb notif failed due to a bug that's since been fixed)
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aaronpk oh weird. i got the bridgy notification a couple days ago
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snarfed oh! ok nm then
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aaronpk but it kept giving me the notification
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snarfed yeah that was the bug
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snarfed fixed now
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aaronpk oh ha
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aaronpk k. reauth'd
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snarfed you didn't have publish enabled before, right?
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aaronpk i don't think so
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snarfed good
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snarfed also, humblebrag, i <3 the new "Polling now" message
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snarfed hopefully makes people a little more patient while it's polling
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snarfed good reminder that UX is largely about little polish details, not big hard technical challenges
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aaronpk well this is neat. just set up glowing bear
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aaronpk it messes with my spatial memory of the IRC channels since everything is sorted alphabetically.
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bear for selfish reasons I hope that is like the most horrible UX possible and everyone stops highlighting "bear"
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aaronpk hahahaha sorry
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bear i'm used to it :)
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bear "grin and bear it" "bear with me" ...
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ben_thatmustbeme i bearly noticed
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ben_thatmustbeme wah wah wahhhh
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bear ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 121 karma
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aaronpk does glowing-bear also trigger your highlight?
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bear yes, because I have a regex for <whitespace>bear<whitespace>
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@tinokremer Nice talk about the #Indieweb, what is it, why we need it https://tinokremer.nl/2015/nice-talk-about-the-indieweb-what-is-it-why-we (twitter.com/_/status/666326718043561984)
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bear during working hours I turn off audible notifications from my irc client - so it's not all that of a bother
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aaronpk wow yeah this is really interesting, it's totally disorienting compared to my terminal client.
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aaronpk It's not very good on mobile sadly
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kylewm I haven't learned the keyboard shortcuts on glowing be/ar yet, not sure if there are any
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aaronpk kylewm: I didn't know you were running weechat, that's cool
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kylewm aaronpk: very recent switch from ZNC
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aaronpk I still use both haha. weechat connected to a ZNC.
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aaronpk so now i'm actually connected from browser -> weechat -> ZNC -> IRC
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aaronpk which means if you're reading this in Slack, it's going from my browser -> weechat -> ZNC -> IRC -> HTTP -> Slack server -> Slack client
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kylewm when you reaaally don't want to get disconnected
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kylewm i wonder how many conversions there are from XML to JSON and back in that stack
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aaronpk I don't think any of that is XML, is it?
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singpolyma none of them are likely to be JSON either
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aaronpk i think only slack server -> slack client is JSON
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aaronpk this is also a good demonstration of how hard it is to get a chat UI right. slack is way better, and weechat console is better.
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singpolyma I still use irssi for everything (including slack)
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GWG !tell acegiak Currently not possible, but I should add that
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[zero-gravitas] Twitter rolling out reacji?: http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/16/9745744/twitter-emoji-reactions
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distresssignal.org edited /reacji (+150) "/* Twitter */" (view diff)
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petermolnar re [zero-gravitas] ::facepalm::
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aaronpk guess it's time for indie reacji!
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aaronpk who's gonna be the first to do that?
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ben_thatmustbeme so basically the same as slack did
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aaronpk looks like it
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ben_thatmustbeme it actually makes a good case for not doing "like" but rather having any generic "reaction"
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ben_thatmustbeme which was slack's reasoning for it
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ben_thatmustbeme http://slackhq.com/post/123561085920/reactions
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aaronpk we don't even need any new properties or anything. if the content of a reply is a single emoji character, don't display it as a comment, but instead, group it with other single-char replies and show the count of them on the post
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singpolyma replace like-of with reply-to and a heart ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme singpolyma basically, yeah
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singpolyma do we also allow reply-to and an A ? or whitelist characters?
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aaronpk easy way to do polls, A, B or C? then people can reply with the letter
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singpolyma yeah. I like that
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petermolnar it could be limited to emoji unicode
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aaronpk i guess why limit it though?
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aaronpk i could even see adding some multi-char whitelisted values like "+1"
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petermolnar 'yo'
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kylewm kind of love this idea
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kylewm also love the idea of "first" being a counter instead of the first comment
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kylewm and a solution to people +1ing github issues
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kylewm asking people not to +1 issues is a social solution to a technical problem :)
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tantek what is reacji?
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Loqi reacji is an emoji reaction, the use of a single emoji character in response to a post, introduced as a feature by Slack[1] https://indiewebcamp.com/reacji
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tantek what is a reacjweet?
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Loqi A reacjweet is a reacji posted as a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/reacjweet
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tantek.com edited /reacji (+0) "/* Twitter */ fix link" (view diff)
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aaronpk cringes
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tantek https://twitter.com/_Ninji/status/666203311809429504/photo/1
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@_Ninji I can't believe they're finally letting me 💯 tweets (The best part is that it's not even a joke, I just found this…) [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/666203311809429504)
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tantek https://twitter.com/CaseyNewton/status/666356368299790338
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@CaseyNewton I asked Twitter for comment about emoji reactions and this is their literal statement, in full: 🙊 (twitter.com/_/status/666356368299790338)
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tantek 😂
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tantek my goal for HWC is to get person-tags working on my photo posts, and with any luck, getting POSSEd to FB too
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tantek anyone else want to throw down a goal for our anniversary HWC this week?
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tantek also - let's definitely do demos in SF HWC
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aaronpk i've been cranking away at my new site, but i'm kind of tempted to launch reacji on my current site
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aaronpk because it would be timely
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tantek I'm pretty sure benwerd has some cool new stuff to show
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tantek And I'd like to show cross-site person-tagging working
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snarfed (SF IWC on 12/3 is also available for demos that need more time to bake :P)
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aaronpk best part is nobody else needs to add anything to support sending reacji to people that can receive them
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kylewm tantek: I'm planning to add person-tagging for Bridgy Publish to Flickr; synergy!
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@call_user_func [New]apiaryhq/webmention Webmention package from Apiary Indieweb support https://packagist.org/packages/apiaryhq/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/666400383749586944)
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@mathpunk @kindofstrange are you familiar with http://indiewebcamp.com Those kids frequently hax0r around with reposting from/to their own sites (twitter.com/_/status/666401180185190400)
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__number5__ call_user_func is a nice twitter handle...
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__number5__ so much php-fu
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