#indiewebcamp 2015-12-10

2015-12-10 UTC
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@brienthess RT @benwerd: Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. https://t.co/a0gIz… (twitter.com/_/status/674747961956433921)
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ben_thatmustbeme sooo now i'm basically just writing close to a recursive descent parser for recognizing emoji
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ben_thatmustbeme i feel like this should be simpler
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. https://t.co/a0gIz… (twitter.com/_/status/674770001979510784)
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@tranmanyo RT @benwerd: Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. https://t.co/a0gIz… (twitter.com/_/status/674776496238538752)
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, i think i have it
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ben_thatmustbeme http://stream.thatmustbe.us/emoji.php
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ben_thatmustbeme just a test for now
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll make it a small lib
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ben_thatmustbeme but it successfully tests for "a single emoji symbol"
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ben_thatmustbeme i think
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ben_thatmustbeme need to try some of those crazy combination ones
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ben_thatmustbeme \o/
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ben_thatmustbeme worked for some of those nutty ones anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme yayyy
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: nice! add a test suite?
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GWG aaronpk: Your GPS data for yourself goes back to what year?
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aaronpk 2008
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GWG So, if you wanted to know where you were pre-2008, how would you do it?
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GWG I'm trying to figure out when I was somewhere.
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aaronpk well there's always this https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/4515731598/in/album-72157623306420643/
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GWG aaronpk: The layers of the onion that is you continue to intrigue me.
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GWG I'm trying to figure out when a picture I'm in was taken. I have the month and year, but not the day
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GWG I wanted to write a post about it.
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GWG I have this desire to add more material to my site that predates my site
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@kevinmarks #sfnt @kevinmarks: Do you have a personal website? Do you want to have one? come to Homebrew Website Club http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/674819757930057728)
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GWG Which goes to the practical question of how to present pre-web material
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@puredyno RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twitter.com/_/status/674835886182412288)
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@kevinmarks Correction: my notes from SF New Tech tonight are on my site at http://www.kevinmarks.com/sfnewtech2015-12.html #sfnt #indieweb @mylerdude (twitter.com/_/status/674858115167219712)
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petermolnar good morning, indieweb; just out of curiosity, I tested how a .onion domain works - as in how to "register" one with tor, how to access it, etc. - and I started to wonder if a similar thing exists for the non-tor world, like a bittorrent id but for dns
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petermolnar https://github.com/analogic/lescript - letsencrypt PHP script (php 5.4.8+ w/ curl & ssl extensions)
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@RikMende RT @withknown: Why did we build Known? http://werd.io/2015/why-is-known-the-best-way-to-solve-your-community #edtech #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/674943134476931072)
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk I have started a repo for this https://github.com/dissolve/single-emoji-recognizer
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk I am having some real problems setting up a test bed as inputting emoji directly in to php and even attempts to input an escaped format have not been working too well on my home machine
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /reacji (-19) "/* Slack reacji */ slack does not re-organize based on frequency" (view diff)
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@HongPong RT @benwerd: Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. https://t.co/a0gIz… (twitter.com/_/status/674972844435054593)
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@tinokremer @davidmead weird, perhaps my comment was still in a spamfilter then or something went wrong on my end. I did send a webmention out. (twitter.com/_/status/674972833735397376)
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@schock RT @benwerd: Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. https://t.co/a0gIz… (twitter.com/_/status/674974774825779200)
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tonious_ ls
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tonious_ Whoops, wrong window :)
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tonious_ goes back to lurking.
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tantek good morning #Indiewebcamp!
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petermolnar o/
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: looks like your /contact page's IndieAuth support broke - when I sign-in it returns to your home page instead of your contact page, and when I reload your contact page - it does not show that I'm signed in
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@jmenglund03 RT @withknown: Why did we build Known? http://werd.io/2015/why-is-known-the-best-way-to-solve-your-community #edtech #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/674990483290980352)
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tantek.com edited /communication (+245) "split contact card from contact UI" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, thanks tantek, though i took away any auth requirement from my contact page
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ben_thatmustbeme it just shows everything
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tantek oh I thought upon auth you white-list showed address etc.
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tantek was trying to use you for a /contact + IndieAuth demo :)
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry
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@johnmcbride RT @benwerd: Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. https://t.co/a0gIz… (twitter.com/_/status/675000557950644226)
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snarfed huh. interesting new (to me) fields returned by the facebook api: backdated_time and backdated_time_granularity
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snarfed in v2.2, no less, so they weren't introduced in a new API version
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snarfed e.g. when i fetch https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100419011060273&set=a.10100419008909583.2449717.212038&type=3 from the API, it includes:
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snarfed "backdated_time": "2012-10-06T20:00:00+0000",
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snarfed "backdated_time_granularity": "day",
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snarfed hmm, never mind, i guess they were there all along, most photos just don't have them. https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.2/user/photos#u_0_23
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ben_thatmustbeme huh
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ben_thatmustbeme probably added it since they wanted to start importing photos
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ben_thatmustbeme they wanted some idea of when the photos were actually taken
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snarfed also lol, the type listed for the 'caption' field is 'UTF-8 string, including emoji'
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gRegorLove That's part of placing things on your timeline, right?
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gRegorLove e.g. here's my baby photo
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ben_thatmustbeme who doesn't want a poop emoji on their photos?
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ben_thatmustbeme speaking of poop emoji... i'm getting closer to having reacji working
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ben_thatmustbeme i have a lib that actually recognizes if a body of text is "one emoji"
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ben_thatmustbeme since that crap gets complex with zero-width-joiners, and variation selectors, and such
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snarfed i saw! nice!
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bret ben_thatmustbeme: https://github.com/muan/mojibar 👍
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message on 11/30 at 9:41am: did we (you) get anyone to host HWC PDX this week? 2015-12-02 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448905267106
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ben_thatmustbeme linux user
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tantek.com edited /messaging (+123) "more specific dfn, indieweb tie-ins" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /messaging (+77) "one part of comms" (view diff)
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tantek had a good conversation about /comms at #mozfest with @jhugman
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GWG I'm still trying to figure out pre Web posting
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@kylewmahan self-hosting is hard: http://waxy.org/2015/12/the_joy_of_getting_hacked/ … I need to set up fail2ban. also a good reminder to back up frequently #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/675030840527728640)
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GWG Anyone have some insight on posting stuff from the 80s and how to format it?
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snarfed GWG: why would you format it differently?
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GWG I'm posting it years later than its date. I'm wondering about presentation.
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tantek backfilling archives!
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snarfed right, i understand what you're doing, i just don't know that backdating means you should render it differently
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tantek GWG, it's a similar problem to importing exports of old silo posts
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tantek so that's the first question. are you thinking of this as "just" importing your stuff from the 80s and giving the permalinks, OR
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kylewm GWG: neon colors and very angular shapes
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tantek do you intend to actually do "throwback" posts wherein you create new posts but about stuff that happened in the past?
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GWG I'm thinking of doing so selectively.
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GWG But I would consider doing a bunch of posts dated in the past and doing a throwback post in the present.
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tantek kylewm: wow re: waxy
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tantek what is fail2ban?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fail2ban" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108g
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kylewm fail2ban is a utility that bans logins from IP addresses that show signs of malicious activity (like many failed login attempts).
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loqi.me created /fail2ban (+156) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449775614146 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /communication (+2507) "/* Brainstorming */ Three button UI braindump, along with summary of how txt messaging flow could work" (view diff)
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GWG What does a throwback post look like?
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tantek GWG - see the #TBT hashtag on Instagram
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tantek and "Timehop" posts on Facebook
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tantek may be worth starting a page on it since it is a widespread phenomenon on silos
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GWG I never liked the Timehop stuff. I felt there might be a better design.
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tantek Agreed. we can till deconstruct the existing design into a set of semantic components to re-assemble into a better design
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GWG Under what name on the wiki? Throwback? Timehop?
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bear Timehop is the name of an app that does the "throwback" on facebook
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bear so I would use throwback
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tantek I think both
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tantek they're different things, one is a specific site/service, one is a type of post
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bear sure, just saying that throwback describes the action and timehop is a silo example of it
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tantek yes :)
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ben_thatmustbeme what is timehop?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "timehop" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108h
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ben_thatmustbeme what is throwback?
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KevinMarks is that waht tbt stands for?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "throwback" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108i
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tantek KevinMarks: you could just ask ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: yeah... ThrowBack Thursday
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bear yes, tbt == throwback thursday
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KevinMarks I thought it was "turn back time"
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ben_thatmustbeme if i could turn back time.... i'd give it all to youuuu
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tantek KevinMarks: sounds like you backronymed that
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KevinMarks yep
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KevinMarks and I get that song in my head when I see it too ben
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tantek there's also fbf
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ben_thatmustbeme fbf?
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KevinMarks frow back friday? only for cockneys?
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: you know how to ask the question
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ben_thatmustbeme what is fbf?
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@AmrEldib RT @dkreuz: reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675042348947124224)
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@littlebluepixel RT @dkreuz: reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675041941583749121)
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@Tricia_teaches RT @dkreuz: reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675041173921230849)
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@davewiner RT @dkreuz: reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675040941888131072)
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@dkreuz reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675039963763863552)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fbf" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108j
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ben_thatmustbeme woah, for a second there i thought loqi was responding to the question with that
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek FBF is an abbreviation for "FlashBack Friday", and used as a hashtag on silos like [[Instagram]] to signify a [[throwback]] post that contains content from some time ago, typically at least days, often years.
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loqi.me created /FBF (+235) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449777646652 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /FBF (+67) "dfn - posted on Fridays, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /FBF (-81) "shorter" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /throwback (+165) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /TBT (+302) "stub" (view diff)
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petermolnar that article in the tweets is apparently relying on external js includes to display it's data
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tantek wow that scripting.com permalink and the homepage is nearly completely js;dr
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petermolnar :D
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tantek petermolnar++
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Loqi petermolnar has 8 karma
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KevinMarks I sent him a pull request to fix that before, he ignored it
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@nerkles RT @dkreuz: reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675045619250106368)
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@petermolnar @davewiner if it was '99 your content would show up without out-of-domain JS dependencies. Render HTML first. https://indiewebcamp.com/js;dr (twitter.com/_/status/675045615110397954)
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kylewm nothing to gain from trolling Winer. ..
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@kevinmarks There's hope for @davewiner because we have webmention, brid.gy, https://silo.pub/ http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention … http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/theres-hope-for-davewiner-because-we-have-webmention-bridgy-silopub (twitter.com/_/status/675047783745851394)
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petermolnar I'm not trolling, I had to disable the protections I have in Firefox
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petermolnar that is without a joke
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/675049735187800064
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 5 hours, 24 minutes ago: I have started a repo for this https://github.com/dissolve/single-emoji-recognizer http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449760064965
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 5 hours, 23 minutes ago: I am having some real problems setting up a test bed as inputting emoji directly in to php and even attempts to input an escaped format have not been working too well on my home machine http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449760141754
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@davewiner @petermolnar -- is this a bug report if so I don't understand (twitter.com/_/status/675049735187800064)
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aaronpk waves at ben_thatmustbeme
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aaronpk omg that's a lot of code
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KevinMarks wow view-source:http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html has the post in there 4 times, just not in html
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petermolnar is my English bad? https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/675052076766994432?cn=cmVwbHk%3D&refsrc=email
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@davewiner @petermolnar still don't understand. Suggest you send a DM of email (twitter.com/_/status/675052076766994432)
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aaronpk seems pretty clear to me
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aaronpk as clear as you can get in 140 chars anyway https://twitter.com/petermolnar/status/675050974097113089
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@petermolnar @davewiner in FF by default I'm blocking out-of-domain requests, w/ that in place http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html is a blank page. JS is enabled. (twitter.com/_/status/675050974097113089)
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tantek aaronpk - on another note - did some indieweb comms/messaging brainstorming here at #mozlando with some Mozilla folks, and in the process of explaining my contact page, came up with this: https://indiewebcamp.com/communication#Three_button_UI
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aaronpk makes a note to check the status of his external JS/css dependencies
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aaronpk tantek: ooh nice
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tantek aaronpk: feedback appreciated!
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tantek I really want to get some form of usable / user-friendly indieweb txting working still
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KevinMarks this was a good post this morning https://24ways.org/2015/putting-my-patterns-through-their-paces/
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tantek KevinMarks: how does that post apply to something you want to do to your own website?
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aaronpk I used to have a form on my website you could fill out and it woudl send me a text message
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petermolnar thank you, KevinMarks
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KevinMarks it fits with the storycards stuff
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kylewm am I crazy, that scripting.com post renders for me with javascript disabled altogether...
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tantek aaronpk - what happened to that form?
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tantek kylewm: you sure? I'm not seeing it
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aaronpk ha it's still there!
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aaronpk (old site)
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tantek aaronpk - would you bring it back to http://aaronparecki.com/contact and perhaps hyperlink "Text Message" to that UI instead of your phone?
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kylewm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/scripting-com-no-js.png
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kylewm there it is rendered, and didn't download any JS
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tantek kylewm: 404
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aaronpk that dropbox link doesn't load for me
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petermolnar not for me either
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tantek kylewm: view-source:http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html and you see the post content in an invisible meta tag, in invisible <script> JSON, and nowhere else
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tantek DRY violation and nothing visible
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aaronpk tantek: I like your new UI ideas, I think I'd want to play around with that more than restoring what I had before
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kylewm oh my dropbox is full, sorry
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petermolnar kylewm can you curl it?
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tantek aaronpk - great!
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kylewm petermolnar: yep, curl works. html content at the bottom of the post
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petermolnar or better, what do you see in links/lynx/links2 ?
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petermolnar not for me
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petermolnar this is strange
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petermolnar what is links2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "links2" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108m
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aaronpk kylewm: this is the bottom of what I get in curl https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/efe9853d99094000479d
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tantek reviews his webmention.io recent mentions and weeps
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petermolnar links2 is a console based, [[TUI]] browser
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loqi.me created /links2 (+69) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449780556605 and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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petermolnar what is TUI?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TUI" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108n
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aaronpk tantek: uhoh why?
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tantek aaronpk - because Bridgy homepage backfeed mentions from Twitter ;(
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aaronpk oh haha wow
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petermolnar TUI is an abbreviation for Text User Interface, used for applications that have an interface in the command line
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loqi.me created /TUI (+139) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449780588746 and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek is there a term for future technical debt?
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snarfed seems like minor technical debt, right? just ignore/filter out home page mentions?
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tantek as in, it keeps getting harder for me to write minimum viable webmention processing and displaying for my site
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kylewm aaronpk: petermolnar: ah sorry I misunderstood. was curling the post that petermolnar replied to, not the /liveblog/ one
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snarfed or whatever system you currently have for reading (or not) your twitter mentions, copy/port it to homepage mentions
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tantek snarfed, a slice and dice approach may be needed yes
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snarfed ah, display. right. eh, start with just mentions on posts
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snarfed almost no one currently displays homepage mentions
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tantek I'm basically going to have to write custom AI to filter out all the false @-mentions
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snarfed sounds like looooow priority
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tantek I've gotten a few - hey I @-mentioned you but you didn't say anything - here this week at Mozlando
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KevinMarks is https://twitter.com/mentions?filter=following not useful there?
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tantek KevinMarks: I'm not following everyone who works for Mozilla
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petermolnar ben_thatmustbeme the more i look at that emoji code the more I see the C in PHP
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tantek or is otherwise here at Mozlando
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tantek that's the issue - discovery of mentions from people you haven't really met yet but want to
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snarfed not that it helps, but fwiw, this (mention overloading/spam) seems like a fairly uncommon use case right now...? mostly just famous people and common/short usernames?
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snarfed just curious
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KevinMarks maybe bridgy could filter out "@t…" mentions
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snarfed KevinMarks: ?
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tantek no, Bridgy is doing the right thing
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tantek it's just surfacing an existing problem
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gregorlove.com created /vague (+70) "prompted by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme petermolnar: aaronpk yeah, the emoji thing is not as simple as it should be
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KevinMarks looking at https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%40t&src=typd
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loqi.me created /recursive (+22) "prompted by petermolnar and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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kylewm maybe would be useful if twitter could filter in mentions from people >1 degree away from you
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tantek I'd likely be ok with mentions from those I follow, those who they follow, or those who follow me
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tantek not sure I'd miss anything relevant that way
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snarfed.org edited /recursion (-56) "Redirected page to [[recursion]]" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Haha
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aaronpk and then mediawiki imploded
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kylewm gRegorLove: do you Pubsubhubbub for /notes/?
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gRegorLove Not yet
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kylewm sometimes woodwind gets your syndication link as brid.gy/publish
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gRegorLove I only PuSH my articles.atom, and that's still manual. I need to automate it.
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gRegorLove Yeah, I saw that.
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kylewm since it's polling 1/hour, I would expect that to happen like 1/1000 times
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kylewm but it happens a lot!
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gRegorLove Huh. Today was the first time I noticed it. I had it opened in one tab and clicked publish, forgot about it for an hour. The publish had failed though :)
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kylewm ohhh
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kylewm that's why :)
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gRegorLove But yeah, usually there's a <1 minute between posting and Bridgy Publish
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@klischka @publictorsten integrierte webmention-Unterstützung? Habe es erst entdeckt, noch nicht probiert (twitter.com/_/status/675059052272054272)
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@gRegorLove As usual, I’m making the important wiki pages. https://indiewebcamp.com/vague (twitter.com/_/status/675058039905456130)
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tantek bear - what is Timehop?
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108h
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kylewm anybody else getting a permission error for that page? ^
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aaronpk hm it's supposed to redirect to https so you're logged in
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kylewm ah http
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tantek wow: http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21583593-using-social-network-seems-make-people-more-miserable-get-life
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gregorlove.com created /timehop (+248) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-10/line/1449777519961" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com moved /timehop to /Timehop "capitalization"
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+1559) "/* Criticism */ Facebook use causes decline in satisfaction" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, perhaps expand /throwback with your use-cases?
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tantek what is Live Writer?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Live Writer" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108p
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tantek https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/674720342208700416
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@benwerd Microsoft's excellent Live Writer is now open source. Points to the first #indieweb hacker to add micropub. http://www.dotnetfoundation.org/blog/open-live-writer (twitter.com/_/status/674720342208700416)
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tantek !tell petermolnar could you document the issue(s) regarding http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/10/technology/yahoo-alibaba-spinoff.html on /Yahoo#Issues ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks wait, what app did blogger turn off? http://www.dotnetfoundation.org/blog/open-live-writer
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KevinMarks s/app/api/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: wait, what api did blogger turn off? http://www.dotnetfoundation.org/blog/open-live-writer
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snarfed sounds like they haven't yet but will soon
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@dschmudde RT @dkreuz: reads: "Silos are screwing up the Internet" by @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2015/12/10/0613.html #swt (twitter.com/_/status/675071402358239232)
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snarfed the obvious candidate is the v2 gdata api, which would kill bridgy's blogger support :(
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snarfed (since the v3 api can't create comments. https://developers.google.com/blogger/docs/3.0/using#WorkingWithComments )
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KartikPrabhu wow!
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KartikPrabhu blogger--
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Loqi blogger has -2 karma
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KartikPrabhu seems like BLogger is going the G+ way
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kylewm wouldn't they give more than 4 days' notice to shut off something like that?
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snarfed kylewm: definitely. it's possible they already did, a while ago, and i just haven't found it
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snarfed unlikely, but possible
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snarfed it actually may be v1 that they turned off for livewriter, not v2
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KevinMarks I hope it's v1
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snarfed sadly v2 will die eventually too. gdata has been on its way out at google for a long time
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@sikkdays It would be interesting if there was a #withknown channel on @IFTTT or if there was a way for #indieweb folks to use IFTTT better. (twitter.com/_/status/675080738203660288)
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KevinMarks re thta flowchart https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/3vslmp/choosing_an_http_status_code_stop_making_it_hard/cxum59z
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kylewm reddit;dr
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KevinMarks that's where the author asked for comments
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kylewm (not really, i just think it's funny to say reddit;didn't read it)
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KevinMarks also his flow chart shoudl be in svg
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KevinMarks then we could send pull requests
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@triptych Webmention - IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/675083603764736000)
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kylewm KevinMarks: the comments look weird on here http://www.diveintomark.link/2003/http-error-447-gone-until-i-get-the-attention-i
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KevinMarks I know
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