#indiewebcamp 2016-02-29

2016-02-29 UTC
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kylewm (yeah i realized it was more appropriate to ask Google, 2 seconds after i asked here)
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aaronpk lol
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kylewm if anyone else is curious, the 3rd answer is the best one there
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aaronpk so yeah I can't make my tests for XRay pass until I use the fixed mf2 parser
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aaronpk otherwise I either have broken HTML escaping handling, or the contents of <script> tags ends up in the plaintext
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aaronpk Any objections to me merging gregor's PR? (We have to get barnaby to do an actual release of a point version, but ppl can use the master branch if they want in the mean time)
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/82
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tantek looks
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tantek why did the Travis build fail?
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aaronpk gregor mentioned that in his comment
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aaronpk there's one failing test in php 5.4 for resolving relative URLs
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aaronpk php 5.4 returns http://user:@www.example.com/server.php when it should return http://user@www.example.com/server.php
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tantek sish
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tantek why are we testing usernames in URLs?!?
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aaronpk it's part of the relative URL resolving testing
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tantek wow ok
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aaronpk URLs are complicated
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aaronpk i'm tempted to change the test to allow either of those though
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tantek I'm not even sure which is correct per the "URL Standard"
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aaronpk i don't think anybody does
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aaronpk it's not like the URL standard changed between PHP 5.4 and 5.5
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kylewm php5.4--
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kylewm seems like they really got their act together in 5.5
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aaronpk yeah also 5.4 was EOL in september 2015
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aaronpk well now i'm confused. the contents of the script tag are still being returned
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kylewm still a *ton* of shared hosts on 5.3 :(
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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aaronpk yeah it'll be a while til we can actually drop 5.4 support
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aaronpk ohhh it removes it from p-content but not from e-content
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aaronpk well that's another question actually. should <div class="e-content"><script>alert("hi");</script></div> contain the whole script tag in the html value?
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aaronpk i think technically it should, but the plaintext value should not include the alert("hi"); text
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tantek aaronpk that sounds like a reasonable resolution
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tantek I would also be ok with a blacklist of tags to strip from HTML
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aaronpk I think that gets into dangerous territory
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aaronpk like, false sense of security ish
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tantek not if we do it for specific reasons e.g. script / security
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tantek it's not false, we can use similar logic as CSP
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aaronpk IMO the HTML returned by the parser should not be assumed to be safe for rendering as is
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tantek which has special casing for script, style, iframe, object
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tantek the point is not to be "safe" for rendering, but rather, to block things that are known (per CSP special-casing) to often be trouble
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tantek CSP is still a good thing even though it is not "complete" by any measure
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aaronpk well I just added a failing test for the script tag behavior i described https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/83
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tantek so the point is, we don't make up our own list, we go by the list of things that CSP thinks are "special" (worthy of blocking), and thus has been reviewed by all the security people that worked ont hat
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tantek you want <script> included or not?
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aaronpk Basically I want this: {"content":[{"html":"<b>Hello</b><script>...</script>","value":"Hello"}]}
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tantek so you want the <script> ?
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aaronpk I mean I would be fine with having it remove the script tag completely, but that's a bigger change
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aaronpk Right now it parses as {"content":[{"html":"<b>Hello</b><script>...</script>","value":"Hello..."}]}
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tantek I feel that's more in the spirit of the issue that was filed
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aaronpk where's that issue?
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tantek ah it was re: <style> http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#exclude_style_elements_before_parsing
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk well I will say that I am sanitizing the HTML returned from the parser anyway, so the first thing that happens is I remove script and style tags anyway
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aaronpk so it wouldn't hurt if the parser didn't include those in the first place
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tantek proposal made to resolve issue, please comment: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#exclude_style_elements_before_parsing
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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@mathpunk @atduskgreg @m1k3y Making an #indiewebcamp note that soundcloud feed subscription is a desirable feature... (twitter.com/_/status/704159023264768000)
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KevinMarks re sanitizing, https://pythonhosted.org/feedparser/html-sanitization.html is a good discussion
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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begriffs good evening
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KartikPrabhu good very late time tantek
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: KevinMarks snarfed tommorris: sorry for not looking deeply at the mf2py performance issue. been pretty busy with "IRL" work; though kylewm seems to have it under control
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@VSChawathe I just queued up "IndieWeb Reply" to watch later on @Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/48097093 (twitter.com/_/status/704215877282045952)
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bear.im edited /User:Bear.im (+108) "update project list" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /palala (-25) "fix dfn" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu bear: are you moving away from Japanese names?
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bear only for this project - it's a very old name for me
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KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu there is always an exception to a rule ;)
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bear always
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bear but I may rename it once i'm happy with how it looks ;)
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KartikPrabhu haha! touche'
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Loqi awesome
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bear wow, did not realize how late it was
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KartikPrabhu agrees
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bear but I now have a basic api and webmention handler for https://indieweb.news
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KartikPrabhu bear++
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Loqi bear has 106 karma
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bear now to read/borrow some code for rendering the mf2 I get from a submitted post
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bear thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu bear: i should recommend mf2util
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bear https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util ??
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KartikPrabhu yea
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bear wow - that is exactly what I was worried I would have to write!
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KartikPrabhu it gives an interpretation of the micro
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KartikPrabhu :D
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bear cool - so I can wire up some basic mf2parser and this and get something done soon
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KartikPrabhu I use that to interpret webmentions
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KartikPrabhu yup
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bear yea, I should use that for my site also
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KartikPrabhu kylewm++ for mf2util
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Loqi kylewm has 297 karma
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bear kylewm++ for mf2util
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Loqi kylewm has 298 karma
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bear k, the idea of using mf2util was so interesting I couldn't stop...
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bear so I now use mf2util and mf2py to parse each webmention, store the comment json blob and use that to fill in the template
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bear my test webmention is very simple, will have to flex some templating skills to get a more information displayed - but it's working - woo!
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@lucidocean RT @ChrisAldrich With #indieweb webmentions, @wordpress @automattic @photomatt could easily replace Facebook and Twitter http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web (twitter.com/_/status/704268043682226177)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp
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tantek Happy 60th day of the year!
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petermolnar morning
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Loqi [mention] Peter Molnar commented 're: http://justhugo.com/2015/10/16/freedom/ I’m not surprised about this; unf...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://petermolnar.eu/nwbcxx/)
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Loqi [mention] Peter Molnar commented 're: http://justhugo.com/2015/10/16/freedom/ I’m not surprised about this; unf...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://petermolnar.eu/nwbcxx/)
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petermolnar sorry, cleanup noise
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tantek.com edited /palala (+134) "stub, dfn fix/expansion, a few minor tweaks, linky" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /SubToMe (+83) "/* Is SubToMe another service to depend on */" (view diff)
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tantek this page needs some work to be updated: https://indiewebcamp.com/planet
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tantek I think it's mostly historical now?
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voxpelli tantek: feels like indienews has superseded it?
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tantek no - different efforts completely
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tantek planets do not require explicit submission
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voxpelli oh, the only ones I've been publishing to has been based on subscription to a tag on my blog, and IndieNews is more or less the same
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tantek IndieNews does not subscribe to anything
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tantek it's not "the same" to anything subscription based at all
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voxpelli the goal is the same at least, to gather posts related to a specific topic
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voxpelli in practice IndieNews could opt to include posts based on tag-filtered subscriptions, but I guess so far it hasn't felt the need for it
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tantek my understanding is that it is a principle of IndieNews to be explicitly (human) submission based
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tantek what is IndieNews?
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Loqi IndieNews is an indieweb news aggregator, similar to Hacker News, which only accepts submissions via webmention https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieNews
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voxpelli since it does two things: Both establishes the taxonomy that things are tagged with and aggregates things using that taxonomy then WebMentions is enough for it
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voxpelli if someone else would like to reuse its taxonomy then those would need to rely on feed subscriptions
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voxpelli but yeah, it feels like an evolution of the planet pattern
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tantek I'm not sure how submission based aggregators evolved
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tantek there does seem to be appeal to people for both kinds
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tantek.com edited /planet (+817) "dfn, move past content to brainstorming, add why, how, examples stubs" (view diff)
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tantek bear, I've tried to help out on /palala and /planet - please review and see if they make sense per your expertise / focus
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Schnitz hey there
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tantek Schnitz, hello! Do you use any planets?
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Schnitz planets? What do you mean?
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Schnitz hi tantek :-)
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Schnitz what are planets?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "planets" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FN
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tantek planets are /planet
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loqi.me created /planets (+19) "prompted by Schnitz https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-29/line/1456758614252 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek try again :)
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Schnitz what are planets?
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Loqi A planet, in the context of the indieweb, and blogs/feeds for even longer, is a site that aggregates feeds/updates from a variety of sources, typically focused on a particular topic or community https://indiewebcamp.com/planets
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Schnitz AHA!
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Schnitz yes interesting
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Schnitz need a planet
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ben_thatmustbeme thats an interesting term
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ben_thatmustbeme had not heard that before
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kodfabrik.se edited /planet (+76) "/* Examples */ Added Drupal Planet as an example" (view diff)
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voxpelli Are there any example of planets created past the introduction of Digg/Reddit/Hacker News-like sites?
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tantek voxpelli: good question. I wonder if new planets have been another one of the casualties of the transition from feeds/readers to social media/silos
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tantek since planets were all AFAIK cross-site in contrast to silo reading experiences
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voxpelli that's why I'm thinking IndieNews might be the new "planet", because it takes the social media approach to "planets" and and brings it back to the indieweb
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tantek it's not really a social media approach though
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tantek neither is Reddit/HN
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tantek they don't require you to put a copy of your content there
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tantek unlike social media / silos
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tantek which now even ask for a copy of your content in special formats :P
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tantek (AMP, FB Instant Pages)
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voxpelli they require an account though, but yeah, more "silo" than "social media" I guess, but still a child of the social media era
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voxpelli the submission and votes are still siloed – unlike with IndieNews others can't find out whether an article has been submitted to eg. HN without asking HN
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tantek I don't know about that either. Digg/Reddit/Hacker News are all more derivatives of Slashdot than any social media / silo
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tantek parallel evolution as it were
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tantek Slashdot predates FB etc. by quite some time
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tantek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot - at least 6 years to FB launch, a few more to FB being open to anyone creating an account
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tantek related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_effect
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voxpelli I think Digg/Reddit/HN takes inspiration from both Slashdot, which are fully curated by non-authors, and Planets, which are fully curated by authors
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voxpelli submission to eg. HN is done by both authors and users
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voxpelli while curation is crowdsourced through voting
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voxpelli stuff can be submitted by anyone to IndieNews so in a way it's like HN there, just without the voting part
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tantek voxpelli: there's no curation of Planets other than the subscription list, which is typically done by hand by the owner / admin(s) of the Planet
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Schnitz brb
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tantek there's no *content* curation that is, on planets
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voxpelli tantek: well, in the case of eg. Drupal Planet, the curation is done by the blogger tagging it's post with tag the planet is subscribed to
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voxpelli (and if one tags a post erroneously so that it ends up on Drupal Planet, then one will get many many angry people telling one about it)
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Guest96033 Not heard of Planets
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tantek voxpelli: that is kind of funny actually (the many angry people in response to an erroneous tag)
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voxpelli tantek: there's some very strict guidelines: https://www.drupal.org/planet/guidelines :)
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tantek Mozilla planet was more about community than topic, so aggregates Mozillians blog posts in general, most which tend to be relevant to web technologies
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aaronpk tantek: have you documented why your home page is an h-card with a child h-feed? (vs the other options of top-level h-feed, etc)
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tantek because my site is me, ergo top level h-card
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tantek sign of community challenges, when "Content that doesn't fit Planet Drupal:" has to explicitly include " "I Love Drupal!" posts that don’t provide valuable, actionable content to readers. "
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aaronpk you also have other pages that contain lists of posts, such as http://tantek.com/2015/08, which has no h-feed markup, nor a top-level h-card. is that intentional?
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Surprised that Wikipedia has many wolf parables&fables, yet lacks the Cherokee Two Wolves story: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search...
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tantek (I'm curious how many times that happened before someone decided an explicit rule was necessary, and that having such a "shutdown positivity" rule was not worse than the content showing up)
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tantek aaronpk: those are my "in progress" /archives
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tantek what is an archive?
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Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indiewebcamp.com/archive
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aaronpk do you (or are you planning to) have tag feeds? like https://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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tantek aaronpk: re: 2015/08 : https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#archives
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tantek re: "tag feeds", only as a side-effect of : https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#linked_hashtags
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+18) "/* linked hashtags */ AKA tag feeds" (view diff)
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aaronpk a tag feed shouldn't have a top-level h-card like your home page, correct? it is primarily a feed, so the top-level object should be an h-feed?
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tantek I think of it primarily as a search result
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tantek never really thought of it as a feed
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tantek hence the description in https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#linked_hashtags
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk but you could imagine adding a tag feed as the input to a planet
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tantek "feed" is a dated plumbing-biased term IMO
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tantek from a user's perspective "search" makes more sense
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tantek and in fact, Twitter uses that wording - # hashtag results are part of *search*
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tantek what is a tag feed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tag feed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FP
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aaronpk okay, so from the user's perspective, https://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb is a search result?
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tantek yes! just like https://twitter.com/hashtag/indieweb is a search result
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voxpelli I think "search" gives too much of a Google vibe – I'm trying to stay away from calling features of a web sites search as far as possible to avoid giving the wrong impression
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aaronpk what about things like https://aaronparecki.com/photos and https://aaronparecki.com/travel
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Not so subtle. #uber
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voxpelli I actively try to use terms like "filters" and probably "feed" and such rather than search
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aaronpk (you may notice the summary from Loqi on these is leaving something to be desired, which is where I'm actually going with this line of questions)
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tantek other attempts in the past have used things like "channel"
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tantek aaronpk: I figured :)
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aaronpk (I call those channels internally!)
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tantek it's all about serving Loqi
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Loqi is done
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tantek.com edited /planet (+54) "WP" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Do Facebook Instant Articles Support The Open Web... or Facebook's Walled Garden?" by Dan York http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/DisruptiveConversations/~3/3v_6mljmFNY/do-facebook-instant-articles-support-the-open-web-or-facebooks-walled-garden.html
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tantek what is Instant Article?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Instant Article" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FQ
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tantek what is Instant Articles?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Instant_Articles
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tantek what is a snowflake?
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Loqi snowflake in the context of the indieweb, is typically used to refer in a derogatory way to "snowflake APIs", APIs that are (often silo) website or service provider-specific (unique like snowflakes) rather than an open standard https://indiewebcamp.com/snowflake
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tantek.com edited /Instant_Articles (+81) "fix dfn, move docs link, see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk so if http://tantek.com represents a person, as does http://twitter.com/t, you might expect XRay to say that it's a "profile"?
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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tantek no, because "profile" is silo-framing, as in you are *just* a profile in *their* silo
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aaronpk what's the right term then?
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tantek an h-card by default is a *person*, unless the name==org, in which case it is a organization or venue (may need more logic)
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aaronpk well that's a thought
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tantek pretty sure that's on the classic hCard docs
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aaronpk I could have it return type: "person" or "organization" or "venue"
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
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Loqi hCard 1.0
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tantek a-ha yes http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Organization_Contact_Info
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Loqi hCard 1.0
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tantek Loqi, could you parse the fragment indicated subtree instead?
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk v2
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aaronpk but that is not a bad idea
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tantek heh
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tantek would also help with old-style blog permalinks
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aaronpk finding the tree of that would be a bit of work
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tantek not at all, first id="" attribute with it
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aaronpk i think it would be all the HTML after the element with that name/id up until the next named element or the end of the document
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tantek here's a test case for you http://tantek.com/log/2002/12.html#L20021216
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aaronpk in practice, most of the occurrences of that don't actually encapsulate the HTML inside that elmeent
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tantek it encapsulates enough for this use case :)
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tantek (Loqi providing summaries)
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk most of the ones i've seen are just <a name="..."></a> with stuff after it but not inside it
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tantek apparently Loqi is serious about being done
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tantek aaronpk: which is why you don't bother with name=
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tantek I was very specific. first id="" attribute with it :)
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aaronpk ah
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tantek here's another test case for you on that very topic: http://tantek.com/log/2002/11.html#L20021128t1352
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aaronpk filed. https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/issues/8
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aaronpk anyway...
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tantek should return:
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tantek <A>norexic </A>nchors
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aaronpk it sounds like you're suggesting dropping the concept of a feed as an entity itself
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tantek feeds are dying/dead as user level entities, having been superseded by silo UX long ago.
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aaronpk and tantek.com is a person, and has a list of posts on the page
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tantek recent posts, recent articles, upcoming events
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tantek I suppose I could add a rel=feed that linked to the fragement identifier of *just* the primary list of posts on the page
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tantek I wonder if that would help with discovery of posts for readers
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aaronpk I would rather the mf2 data structure have all the information it needs to know where the primary list of posts is, rather than relying on external information from the HTML
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tantek user adds a URL to a reader to "follow", reader goes to discover the list of posts to from that URL, looks for a top level h-feed, then top level h-entry(s), then rel=feed which if it goes to a local frag ID, then parses that subtree for an h-feed, then h-entry(s)
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tantek interesting, so you'd like to actively recommend *against* rel-based discovery of content?
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tantek (not questioning, but rather seeking clarification)
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aaronpk it makes it harder to implement when you have to handle both the parsed microformats and also raw HTML
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tantek because that has larger ramifications (we could consider that path)
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tantek this is why the mf2 JSON included rels to start with
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aaronpk for me, the whole benefit of microformats is that I don't have to think of it as HTML anymore
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tantek so all you needed was the mf2 JSON (the "parsed microformats")
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tantek ah, even if you have the rel values, if they are URLs to things in the HTML, you'd have to look at the HTML again?
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aaronpk right
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tantek *interesting* this is implying that rel values in the mf2 JSON to local things in the page should somehow also provide references to those parsed microformats in the mf2 JSON!
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aaronpk basically when I look at tantek.com I see this: https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-02-29-08-26-59.png and expect to be able to find everything I need from that
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tantek do we parse the id="" attribute on a root microformats element as an implied "p-id" or even a fully qualified "u-id" on that microformat?
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tantek because then you could do the look-up from a rel URL value into the list of microformats and find the one that was referenced
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aaronpk huh, that's a thought
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tantek we've had other suggestions I think for things like the lang="" attribute
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aaronpk probably would need to be fully qualified u-id since it is likely the same id string would exist on other pages
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tantek yes that makes more sense
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ben_thatmustbeme that would certainly be useful information though
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tantek in that case, should we overload by implying "uid" if none is specified?
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tantek (rather than making up a new property "id")?
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tantek or keep it as "id" for HTML attr-name consistency (and avoiding collision/confusion with "uid")
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aaronpk my instinct is to not use the uid property, since that has specific semantics of being a globally unique identifier
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tantek OR prefix it as an HTML attribute "html-id"
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tantek yes, I agree with your instinct
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tantek where's the issue about specifying "lang" or natural languages for microformats?
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tantek someone here (voxpelli ?) filed it somewhere and I can't find it
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tantek can't find it here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues
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aaronpk http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Parse_language_information
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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Loqi microformats2 parsing brainstorming
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tantek hah at least I remembered the author!
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks was interested in that too i though
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ben_thatmustbeme don't much like html-id as an attribute, that would seem even more confusing
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ben_thatmustbeme uid would be fine so long as its the full URL wouldn't it?
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ben_thatmustbeme and so long as the html is correctly using ID only once per page
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that's awfully optimistic about fragment identifiers ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i know :(
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tantek (in practice not very globally unique, nor canonical, both of which implied by "uid")
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ben_thatmustbeme well there are easy tests to see if the ID is re-used on the page right?
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tantek but that's the lesser of the two important constraints / semantics I noted above
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ben_thatmustbeme doesn't safe-guard you against future errors though
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tantek (canonical is more important)
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ben_thatmustbeme is uid supposed to be the cannonical only? (i never fully understood that with h-cite for example)
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tantek aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme, voxpelli updated: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Parse_language_information please add more comments there on the proposal(s) !
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Loqi microformats2 parsing brainstorming
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yes, uid implies asserted canonical URL
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tantek which also implies globally unique
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ben_thatmustbeme where would one put the syndicated copy ID?
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tantek "u-syndication" :P
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ben_thatmustbeme the syndicated copy should have a u-syndication to itself as the only identifier?
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tantek huh? no - why does a copy need an id at all beyond its URL?
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/704340629745115136
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@CoralineAda @_danilo I got so fed up with that that I just created a simple blog off my own site. It just wasn’t worth it. (twitter.com/_/status/704340629745115136)
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tantek if you're looking to de-dup, you should use the *original* canoncial URL UI
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tantek s/URL UI/URL and uid
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Loqi tantek meant to say: if you're looking to de-dup, you should use the *original* canoncial URL and uid
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tantek hence why syndicated copies should link back to originals
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tantek they don't need their own "id" ever
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ben_thatmustbeme post <famous person> lied when he claimed i said <some quote>! Here is the original <canonical> and here is his misquote of me <copy>
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ben_thatmustbeme as an example
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ben_thatmustbeme if the syndicated copy has a fragment id that is unique to the page, you have a definite unique url / id for that syndicated copy
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tantek that use of <canonical> is just a link
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tantek it can't assert anything canonical about it since it's an *external* link
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tantek only the destination of that link can assert whether it is canonical or not
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry, yeah, i was shorthanding that as <link to canonical>
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: no I understand. I'm saying that from an outside perspective, it's just a link
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tantek you don't get to assert what is canonical on someone else's site
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tantek only they do
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tantek so it's pointless to design markup to capture that
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tantek since it's not trustworthy / trustable information in the first place
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tantek it's *just* a link
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[kevinmarks] With html the id duplication problem is solved by going to the first in the document, but mf2 parsing doesn't preserve document order, so may add ambiguity
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tantek anyone coming along that wants to see if it is canonical has to go *get* that link and check it out to see what it asserts about itself
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, i know that, how do you refer to the data of that version though, thats still content that is parsable and referencable, just not trustworthy information
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[kevinmarks] You can assert that the current page is non-canonical with a rel=canonical link
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tantek nah, it's pointless to refer to it since it's not trustworthy information
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tantek all you can refer to is what is trustable, which is that it's a link, nothing more
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tantek KevinMarks: the dup id problem can be solved at parse time, since the document *is* parsed in document order even if the parsed result isn't guaranteed to be so (yet the algorithm pretty sure specifies that order)
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ben_thatmustbeme <div class="h-cite"><a class="u-url u-uid" href="twitter.com/t/00000000101010101">permalink</a><span class="e-content">I believe in creationism<span></div>
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ben_thatmustbeme If i post this, how do you comment on it and call me out as a liar?
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ben_thatmustbeme any attempt to parse it says that it doesn't exist as the url is gone
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aaronpk I don't understand the problem? That post would have a URL on your site, so someone would just reply to that URL
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ben_thatmustbeme just because its not validated as having being correct (verifying the source) does not mean it isn't something useful
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: who said it has a permalink?
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ben_thatmustbeme its just in a feed
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aaronpk now you're just being silly
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ben_thatmustbeme not so much of how you comment on it, but how do you cite it
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[kevinmarks] Page with id was the original permalink model before posts got standalone pages
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[kevinmarks] Tantek: so that is an extra constraint for parsers, that first id wins?
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, i hadn't though of two IDs, that gets even messier
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ben_thatmustbeme what i was trying to get at is that a syndicated copy should have and ID of itself and and ID of what it is claiming to be a copy of, whatever that ID of the syndicated copy is, thats what you should be parsing the id from html into
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tantek KevinMarks: yes, mf2 parsers should only look at first instance of any "id" attribute hence doing de-duping at parse time for id
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: that example makes little sense, in that if you wanted to lie you could lie in the markup too ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme i am doing just that, thats what i'm saying
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tantek agreed - no need to bother with such abusive use-cases
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tantek because they are ignorable
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tantek best practice is to not link to them
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KartikPrabhu right and there is no way to fix it by making rules as a "liar" can break any rules you make up
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ben_thatmustbeme i went down this path to figure out what a field should be for parsing an html id into
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ben_thatmustbeme and because i do think there is use in being able to reference what is effectively a link object,
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: there isn't even an html ID in your example, i'm not sure what you're getting at
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ben_thatmustbeme nevermind
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ben_thatmustbeme probably a bad example
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tantek designing first or primarily by abusive use-cases is not a good methodology. do the opposite instead
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gRegorLove Good morning, indiewebcamp.
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tantek design by productive/positive use-cases first
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aaronpk this got way off track of what I was originally asking about anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme forget the abusive case and it works the same as accidental
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tantek aaronpk: what you are asking about originally is essentially a /link-preview use-case question
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tantek aaronpk: could you add your use-case to /link-preview, perhaps in the Brainstorming section?
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aaronpk sort of, but I also want to be able to reliably find entries on the page for consuming in a reader
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tantek well that's another use-case, add that to /reader
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tantek point is, capture your use-cases individually as they may have different or overlapping solutions
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tantek but unless we capture them, they get lost, then history repeats itself
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aaronpk hm there is already an "autodiscovery of h-feeds" in the reader brainstorming
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aaronpk it links to http://indiewebcamp.com/h-feed#canonical_feed_autodiscovery
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: that was added primarily by me IIRC
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KartikPrabhu feel free to disagree/tweak
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aaronpk but i thought we were trying to get away from the plumbing-centric view of feeds
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tantek aaronpk: we are, hence update /reader accordingly!
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tantek with exactly what you said
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tantek "to be able to reliably find entries on the page for consuming in a reader"
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tantek ^^^ note no use of "feed" in that use-case
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tantek welcome misa__ !
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misa__ hello!
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tantek misa__: you said earlier in #microformats "indieweb seems very right for me, I can comprehend most of its concepts"
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misa__ yes
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tantek glad to hear it - what is your personal site, and what are your personal human-facing goals for it?
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KartikPrabhu regarding rel based vs mf2 based discovery. parsed mf2 does have the rel attributes too
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tantek (KartikPrabhu keep catching up on logs - I noted that already ;) )
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KartikPrabhu oh ok :)
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KartikPrabhu very long discussion ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: save youself some time and ignore my whole convo section
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: not to worry I am good at speedy parsing of relevant content ;)
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misa__ well I'm working on a website related to cooking and gastronomy, it's going to be kind of a blog/recipe/discussion website, still working on the format
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: also noticed your comment about JF2 ealier, what was it you were referring to specifically? the "refs:" ?
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aaronpk not sure, which comment?
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KartikPrabhu misa__: nice. do you already have it up at a URL?
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misa__ i registered the domain, gastronomades.gr
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misa__ it's going up these days
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ben_thatmustbeme <aaronpk> alright, it's done: http://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2F2015.aaronparecki.com%2Freplies%2F2015%2F10%2F07%2F1%2Famp
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ben_thatmustbeme <aaronpk> ben_thatmustbeme: what do you think about that method for returning nested objects in jf2?
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misa__ jekyll/github-pages style
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aaronpk ah yes!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I think jf2 discussion, since it's generic to microformats in general, could be done in #microformats
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KartikPrabhu misa__: good to hear. Is there something particular you wanted on the site that lead you to indieweb?
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ben_thatmustbeme good point, moving over
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gRegorLove kylewm: Something weird seems to be going on with syndication links in Woodwind: https://woodwind.xyz/?entry=http%3A%2F%2Fwerd.io%2F2016%2Freal-question-to-realdonaldtrump-instead-of-self-funding-youve-given
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kylewm gRegorLove: already have a PR in to Known for it
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KartikPrabhu alright gotta run
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KartikPrabhu misa__: feel free to ask questions in here and good luck with your site :)
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kylewm gRegorLove: actually it was already merged, werd.io probably hasn't updated yet
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gRegorLove Cool
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gRegorLove Just noticed it on your posts too.
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misa__ yes well, the concept of POSSE is something that i'm interested in just i'm not sure how to implement it on a static website.
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[kevinmarks] Bridgy publish is one way
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gRegorLove What is Bridgy?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed as a service https://indiewebcamp.com/bridgy
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gRegorLove Huh, surprisingly few Bridgy Publish mentions on /Bridgy.
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misa__ that looks great!
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gRegorLove Could probably use a sub-section, at least.
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gRegorLove What is Bridgy?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indiewebcamp.com/bridgy
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loqi.me created /Bridgy_Publish (+19) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /reader (+305) "/* Autodiscovery of h-feeds */" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Interesting slacklash https://medium.com/better-people/slack-i-m-breaking-up-with-you-54600ace03ea
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gRegorLove Hm, the two sub-sections under /Bridgy#Why seem the same? "Send silo interactions" is actually describing backfeed.
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tantek KevinMarks: can you add that to /silo-quits ?
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snarfed gRegorLove: feel free to revise!
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snarfed bear++ for https://indieweb.news/
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Loqi bear has 107 karma
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snarfed ...but oh man is that going to get confused with http://news.indiewebcamp.com/ :P
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snarfed (heh, sorry, i see that was already discussed)
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bear yea, I figure there will be some adjustments :)
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aaronpk maybe we should have explicitly stated goals with them that are different
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aaronpk e.g. news.indiewebcamp.com is intended to be explicit submissions, not aggregated like a planet
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bear I feel that planet isn't the right term for indieweb.news to be honest - but I also have not staked out any firm position
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snarfed i was actually just thinking about the names/domains, even before i knew what they did (and definitely before i got anywhere near reading text goals anywhere)
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aaronpk heh
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bear if it's determined that there is too much overlap (or folks find it confusing) then I'll point indieweb.news to news.indiewebcamp.com
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gRegorLove What is indieweb.news?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb.news" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FT
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bear I haven't defined it yet gRegorLove precisely because right now it's just a way for me to explore some python code for displaying different posts, mentions, comments, etc
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gRegorLove tanteking fail.
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gRegorLove ;)
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bear one of my thoughts was that it would be a self-refreshing list of items someone is interested in, with the default being a list of activity from the indieweb community
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bear not just posts from indieweb community members
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bear (sheesh I hope that makes sense)
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@calum_ryan Well put @barrymcgee! Great to see growing interest in #indieweb http://www.barrymcgee.co.uk/development/2016/02/11/embracing-the-indieweb.html (twitter.com/_/status/704370659871301634)
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@michielbdejong RT @fakebaldur Anybody who is interested in the Open Web but isn't paying attention to https://indiewebcamp.com/ isn't, actually, paying attention. (twitter.com/_/status/704375066553933824)
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tantek this is a great article - anyone know Barry? http://www.barrymcgee.co.uk/development/2016/02/11/embracing-the-indieweb.html
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tantek we need to help him upgrade his classic microformats to mf2 to answer the issues at the end of his post
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tantek is wondering where he got the old vCard copy/pasta
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+129) "/* 2016 */ add barrymcgee.co.uk post" (view diff)
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tantek oh there's a tweet about it - maybe we should encourage both Barry and Calum to join us here beyond just twitter? https://twitter.com/calum_ryan/status/704370659871301634
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@calum_ryan Well put @barrymcgee! Great to see growing interest in #indieweb http://www.barrymcgee.co.uk/development/2016/02/11/embracing-the-indieweb.html (twitter.com/_/status/704370659871301634)
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@ChrisAldrich @benwerd Let us know if you need a side of #indiepublishing to go with your #indieweb! @boffosockobooks (twitter.com/_/status/704376941424447488)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@benwerd Let us know if you need a side of #indiepublishing to go with your #indieweb! @boffosockobooks" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/benwerd-let-us-know-if-you-need-a-side-of
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@LukasRosenstock RT @fakebaldur Anybody who is interested in the Open Web but isn't paying attention to https://indiewebcamp.com/ isn't, actually, paying attention. (twitter.com/_/status/704377672055574529)
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@jgarber @nicolaschevobbe Congrats on the launch and welcome to the #indieweb! /cc @SaraSoueidan (twitter.com/_/status/704383400103309313)
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aaronpk that's a great thread
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/702063641877725184
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@SaraSoueidan I wish developers/designers wrote more articles on their own blogs. I’d rather share links to those blogs than to articles on Medium, tbh. (twitter.com/_/status/702063641877725184)
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KevinMarks I wonder if Barry got his hcard from http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator.html
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 90 (twitter.com/_/status/704123801609568256)
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tantek KevinMarks: feel free to take this! https://github.com/microformats/generators/issues/3
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calumryan tantek: I’m here :) I’ll try and get Barry to join in next time I see him and suggest this
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ikomi hello, I was referred here by wolftune from snowdrift.coop, I have a question regarding html meta tags and was wondering if I could ask for opinions here
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tantek hey calumryan !
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tantek any idea how Barry got the idea of using old vcard microformats?
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ikomi I'm helping out at snowdrift.coop (a site focused on free/libre/open works) and looking into adding meta tags for better search/social visibility. Specifically considering opengraph tags and twitter cards. I noticed the IndieWebCamp website has opengraph tags, is this a "standard" and have you noticed any improvements in visibility and such?
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tantek welcome ikomi !
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ikomi tantek: ty :) hope you're all having a good week so far
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tantek so far so good
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tantek in general html meta tags are to be avoided for all the usual invisible metadata bad/rot problems
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ikomi tantek: good :) is that just for keyword tag or even description tags?
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tantek thanks for pointing out that we have some on indiewebcamp.com - we're investigating how that happened
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tantek ikomi - pretty much all meta
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tantek except meta charset
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tantek it's one more invisible place you forget to update / change when the *visible* content changes
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tantek better to just markup the page with visible microformats and be done
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calumryan tantek: I’m not sure how Barry used the old vcard, certainly not from my talk which didn’t go into this much detail
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ikomi tantek: microformats as in http://microformats.org/ ?
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tantek ikomi yes!
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tantek and #microformats for discussion
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tantek ikomi: in general, for anything indieweb you can ask "what is" here
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tantek e.g.
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tantek or what are
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tantek e.g.
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tantek what are microformats?
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Loqi microformats are extensions to HTML for marking up people, organizations, events, locations, blog posts, products, reviews, resumes, recipes etc https://indiewebcamp.com/microformats
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ikomi we have a meta description tag for the 1-liner that appears in search engine results (though if we didn't add it some search engines would just take the body text for their description), so looking if anything else would be useful
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ikomi tantek: okay, ty for the recommendation on microformats :)
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tantek ikomi: exactly - taking the body text for description is *much* better because then you can just make sure your body text is up to date!
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ikomi tantek: true. that works best if the first few lines of the body text contain the relevant keywords or does it not matter?
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tantek search engine keyword heuristics have become too complex to bother trying to jam/pack etc.
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tantek just make sure your content has relevant prose with good valid semantic HTML markup
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tantek they look for that in general
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@SamatJain RT @fakebaldur Anybody who is interested in the Open Web but isn't paying attention to https://indiewebcamp.com/ isn't, actually, paying attention. (twitter.com/_/status/704390598652928000)
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ikomi tantek: ty … and further to the body text question, is taking the body text common behaviour for all major search engines? I see a lot of large sites (index page) have no description in search results
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snarfed kylewm++ again for the huge mf2py optimization in https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/pull/61
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Loqi kylewm has 300 karma
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snarfed early data suggests that it's noticeably reducing both bridgy's costs and its backlog, from 30-180m down to 0!
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tantek ikomi who knows why sites lack description, it might be because of the js;dr problem
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tommorris yep very good work kylewm
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tommorris kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 301 karma
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gRegorLove What is metadata?
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Loqi Metadata, specifically "descriptive metadata", is an umbrella term for all the different ways data (content) can be marked up or organized to facilitate machine-readability https://indiewebcamp.com/metadata
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gRegorLove What is invisible metadata?
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Loqi For reference: WS-Deathstar [1][2][3][4][5], e.g.: https://indiewebcamp.com/invisible_metadata
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gRegorLove wut
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tantek :D
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ikomi tantek: okay. sorry, one more question, is the current version of microformats w3c valid? just looking at rel=tag for links, the copyright says they intend to submit to standards body, is it still wip?
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tantek ah - that should be updated, because rel=tag *was* submitted and incorporated into HTML5
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tantek ikomi what URL did you find that at?
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ikomi http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag from the front page under rel microformats
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@thornlow_brenda RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 90 (twitter.com/_/status/704121931965067268)
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@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 90 (twitter.com/_/status/704121416011087872)
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Loqi rel="tag"
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tantek ikomi: all microformats are w3c valid BTW - because microformats are designed to make use of existing valid W3C standards
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ikomi *wiki front page
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ikomi tantek: great, ty … so microformats is a significant improvement worth incorporating, but not a "must"? will let the group know and see about incorporating it. ty again!
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tantek ikomi: what do you mean by "a must"?
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tantek everything on the web is "optional" :0
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ikomi tantek: bad wording, must as in, essential for better search/social network sharing visibility
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ikomi *important for
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bear kylewm++ for mf2py optimizations and for mf2util
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tantek yes microformats are important for better search / social network / indieweb sharing visibility
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Loqi kylewm has 302 karma
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tantek ikomi: thank you for the question about rel-tag, I have updated the specification accordingly to note that rel-tag has been incorporated into HTML5: http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag
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Loqi rel="tag"
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ikomi tantek: does it have any effect on accessibility as well or do readers prefer entirely different specifications?
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tantek ikomi some readers use microformats. for *screen* readers you have to check each one individually as they all differ, however they do tend to make use of ARIA attributes.
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ikomi tantek: and np (sorry for all the questions!)
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tantek ikomi questions appreciated! :)
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ikomi tantek: got it, ty again!
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miklb ikomi: think of it this way, there are only positives to using microformats now, and going forward
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ikomi miklb: nods, good to hear it's already in html5, initially wasn't sure if I should suggest implementing if the spec is wip and may change
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ikomi the specs looks pretty useful
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ikomi ty again, might be back again but regardless, have a good day :)
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loqi.me created /résumé (+132) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /résumé (+41) "citation" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /resumé (+376) "stub" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /résumé (-152) "r" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /resume (+21) "redirect until we need the verb "resume"" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Anyone post their resumé on their site? Add to /resumé#IndieWeb Examples
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petermolnar ^^^ rhiaro ?
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aaronparecki.com edited /resumé (+35) "add my example" (view diff)
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rhiaro rhiaro.co.uk/tag/cv it's just tagged blog posts because I refuse to be bound by resumé rules, does it count?
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 1/19 at 1:15pm: do you know when the first Edinburgh HWC was? And how many were held last year? Can you edit https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-review#Homebrew_Website_Club with that info? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-19/line/1453238124010
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 2/16 at 12:35pm: do you keep a list of all the books you own? do you publish that list anywhere? what do you call it? personal library? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-16/line/1455654923934
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rhiaro Oh man it's been a while since I typed in this channel
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aaronpk waves
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tantek rhiaro: it counts as a good counter-example - definitely worth adding as such
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rhiaro quietly goes back into hiding
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tantek aww
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rhiaro tantek: re books, no I don't keep a list
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gRegorLove Come back! We have cookies.
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rhiaro Are they vegan cookies?
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tantek just /read posts then?
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tantek notes to self to start trying vegan cookie recipes
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rhiaro Yeah I did a couple of read posts, mostly papers rather than books
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rhiaro And tantek re HWC Edinburgh, bother tbrb or kongaloosh for that information :)
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tantek tbrb: ^^^
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tbrb I'll grab a look tomorrow :)
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tantek tbrb in particular: do you know when the first Edinburgh HWC was? And how many were held last year? Can you edit https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-review#Homebrew_Website_Club with that info?
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tbrb I'll dig into the records tomorrow
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petermolnar it having the (u-in-reply-to|u-like-of|etc) within the e-content part valid or should that be outside of e-content?
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petermolnar because in case of a reply, it's kind of makes sense as part of the content
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aaronpk it's fine to have it inside the content
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petermolnar ok
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aaronpk as long as you don't mind the text of the link being rendered when the comment is displayed
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yoowho i want to thank the san francisco indie web meet folks last week for their feedback helping me with creating a new homepage look http://moshecohen.net/
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tantek welcome yoowho and great to meet you last week!
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tantek other folks you met last week: benwerd, KevinMarks, erinjo
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yoowho thanks tantek!
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tantek and here's our photo: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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tantek yoowho: there's people here from around the world - feel free to ask any indieweb related questions you like, at any time, 24/7 :)
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@d0gada @malcolmblaney Most #IndieWeb silos like #Twitter and #Facebook protects timelines with #OAuth tokens and your… (https://dogada.org/e/118t685U13912) (twitter.com/_/status/704409191956385793)
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tantek nice resizing image yoowho !
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Loqi [bridgy] Dmytro V. Dogadailo replied '@malcolmblaney Most #IndieWeb silos like #Twitter and #Facebook protects timelin...' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config (https://twitter.com/d0gada/status/704409191956385793)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Alaska Cruise Log Day 3: Juneau" http://tantek.com/2015/221/b1/alaska-cruise-log-juneau
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tantek how did that happen?
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petermolnar http://dcurt.is/svbtle-promise
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petermolnar "Today, we’re launching a new feature for Svbtle members: it’s a promise that the Svbtle service and your published content will remain available on the web forever."
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aaronpk tantek: there's some mentions of "indieweb" at that page
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aaronpk not sure why it only now popped up though
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kylewm wow, that Svbtle announcement is cool. i think the most forcefully i've seen that sort of statement made
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aaronpk It's nice, but I'm not sure how much I can believe it
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aaronpk They did acknowledge "If Svbtle, its parent corporation, or any affiliated entities are acquired, purchased, or taken control of by a third party in a way that would negatively impact the service, we will do everything in our power to ensure that the above two promises endure as part of any legal agreements into which we enter."
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aaronpk but it's hard to actually control what happens in that situation
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kylewm hmm, but then fine print: c. "Forever" means until the HTML "web" is no longer generally accessible or until Svbtle becomes financially insolvent (which we intend to avoid "
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kylewm I intentionally cropped out some context there :P but it's a pretty big hedge
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Loqi [indieweb] "so you are actually POSSEing video right to twitter ? by the look of your post is that even possible ? #amazed #indieweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/so-you-are-actually-posseing-video-right-to-twitter-by
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tantek :)
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tantek Rick Mendes, yes: https://twitter.com/t/status/704420160895995904
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aaronpk more details from dcurtis about svbtle...
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aaronpk https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11198565
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aaronpk in particular, "...we would work very closely with [archive.org] to archive all data. And perhaps even give them the domain name."
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aaronpk and "I'm working on a trust that will be created in the event of my death (or the company's death) that can keep the servers running for a very long time to come, even with no paying customers."
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tantek nice
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aaronpk so he looks like he's pretty serious about it, and it's not just a marketing gimmick to try to get people to use svbtle instead of medium
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on by D.V.D." by D.V.D. https://petermolnar.eu/o37tvb/#comment-11569
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KartikPrabhu dcurtis writes pretty good stuff and seems reasonable
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KevinMarks looks like gnusocial is losing the spaces between tags on tantek's posts https://quitter.no/notice/1157444
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Loqi [Tantek] Tantek (tantekcom)'s status on Monday, 29-Feb-2016 22:35:00 CET
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tantek KevinMarks: that would be bad HTML parsing on their part, dropping line-breaks instead of turning them into spaces
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aaronpk that sounds suspiciously like https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/69
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tantek Perhaps show them our work on white-space handling
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KevinMarks well, once we fix it
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KevinMarks :D
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tantek are they using php-mf2?
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aaronpk not sure, but they'd be using the same thing php-mf2 used
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tantek do we track webmention mentions here? https://twitter.com/t/status/704428208133832704
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gRegorLove What is Svbtle?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Svbtle" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FW
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tantek Twitter sucks at auto-detecting even the most obvious patterns of spam: the same exact thing tweeted in rapid succession by multiple accounts: https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/704425458037706752
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@RikMende Pro-Trump Twitter Bots at Center of Nevada Mystery http://bot.watch/post/140220440312/pro-trump-twitter-bots-at-center-of-nevada-mystery#_=_ [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/704425458037706752)
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tantek Begun, the Bot Wars have.
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@RikMende seems really interesting https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon #Falcon #indieweb by @t @falcon (twitter.com/_/status/704430020245262336)
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snarfed1 does known not support video posse yet? i know benwerd has lots of experience and opinions on video handling, maybe he's waiting until he feels like he can do it right?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Just reading the features of this beast of the #indieweb #Falcon @falcon https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon #amazed @t Video POSSE to tw,fb is crazy!!!" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/just-reading-the-features-of-this-beast-of-the-indieweb
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@RikMende Just reading the features of this beast of the #indieweb #Falcon @falcon https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon #amazed @t Video… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/just-reading-the-features-of-this-beast-of-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/704430872905158657)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-02-19.html https://webmention.io/notification/B6DhoYc7JGnZ4tLBz0mAwA
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gregorlove.com created /Svbtle (+103) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-29/line/1456783945688" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Feel free to expand with info on the promise ^
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[kevinmarks] snarfed: ben doesn't support video hosting on known, only audio
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snarfed right
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Loqi [indieweb] "Alright I just had a #Eureka moment!!! #indieweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/alright-i-just-had-a-eureka-moment-indieweb
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@RikMende Alright I just had a #Eureka moment!!! #indieweb https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/704433174076530689/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/704433174076530689)
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snarfed he is definitely enthusiastic :P
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tantek this is why it's important to push forward with what you want on your site, as hacky as it may be. show a broader set of people what is possible.
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@RikMende This Week in the IndieWeb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-02-26.html (twitter.com/_/status/704440078022496256)
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@RikMende RT @fakebaldur Anybody who is interested in the Open Web but isn't paying attention to https://indiewebcamp.com/ isn't, actually, paying attention. (twitter.com/_/status/704440605099859970)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+48) "archive Mailbox" (view diff)
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kylewm KevinMarks: tantek: gnu social isn't using php-mf2 -- those status updates come from t's atom feed
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snarfed aaronpk: just fyi, looks like something of yours sent bridgy 1-5qps of GET https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/704421094451589120/704424081131634688 around 3pm pst
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Loqi [Kevin Fox] @t I have such lament of missing out. LOMO.
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snarfed client IP 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe6e:e59f
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snarfed totally ok, just fyi
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aaronpk snarfed: for how long?
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snarfed maybe just 5m or so
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snarfed 100s-1000s of reqs though :P
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk that's likely webmention.io trying to verify the webmention from bridgy