#indiewebcamp 2016-03-18

2016-03-18 UTC
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gRegorLove What's an "empty post" in terms of a feed?
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gRegorLove A blank h-entry?
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[kevinmarks] the point of tombstoning is also that you want the cached copies elsewhere removed, and replacing them with empty text or 'deleted' is a way to do that for clients that support updates, as well as those thta support deletes
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mblaney gRegorLove: it would need to keep the permalink to work out what should be deleted, but otherwise yes a blank h-entry
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gRegorLove What is tombstone?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tombstone" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GV
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mblaney kevinmarks what would a delete look like compared to an empty update?
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KevinMarks that was the question. having a dt-deleted was a suggested way of signalling
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KevinMarks a tombstone is a replacement entry with null or marked data for a deleted entry. This is a way of ensuring cached copies also get removed when an entry is deleted.
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loqi.me created /tombstone (+188) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-17/line/1458259899606 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KevinMarks so if instagram goes algorithmic, will the feeds from the api change too?
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kylewm "feeds from the api" likely to be moot soon anyway right?
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mblaney on another topic, should img alt text really be pulled into the plain text when parsing microformats?
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mblaney I'm seeing duplicate text quite often, for example: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://adactio.com/notes/10380
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kylewm I think tantek would say that's bad alt text; it shouldn't duplicate text that's already on the page
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-20/line/1411251928518
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Loqi [tantek] bear - not true - duplicating text is bad for accessibility
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gRegorLove It should either be more descriptive or blank, probably.
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mblaney I guess I'm more wondering if attributes on tags should be part of plain text though.
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mblaney ie php's strip_tags doesn't include alt
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gRegorLove From /alt https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/embedded-content.html#alt
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gRegorLove strip_tags is for an entirely different purpose than mf2 though
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mblaney well mf2 has multiple purposes, e-content gives me the html p-* gives me plain text
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mblaney I'm just wondering what the definition of plain text is
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mblaney the result of strip_tags is obviously one definition
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[kevinmarks] It's defined in parsing p- I think
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gRegorLove Yeah http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing#parsing_a_p-_property
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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mblaney ok thanks for the link.
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[kevinmarks] Also the value for e- says to expand alt text
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mblaney e-content[value] says to expand alt text.... now I'm thinking about using strip_tags(e-content[html]) ;-)
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snarfed hey all...just to confirm, the h-as-* mf2 classes are deprecated in favor of post type discovery, right?
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KevinMarks yes, I think so
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KartikPrabhu messages Loqi?
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Loqi yo
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acegiak feeling inspired today!
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acegiak gonna take a crack at this mood tracking thign
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acegiak thing*
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KevinMarks what's the model?
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acegiak for mood tracking? I'm gonna have mood as a 0-1 or percentage type thing, maybe with optional strings as descriptor tags?
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KevinMarks interesting
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KevinMarks I've seen ti as icons before, not a numeric scale
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acegiak I've used an app called pacifica before
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acegiak which has keywords that are stages up a scale
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acegiak I will probably write a module for dobby to have him prompt me to enter data
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KevinMarks one for the fitness apps had a mood emoji thing that was quite cute
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GWG acegiak: How will you do that WordPress wise? Post Meta?
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acegiak GWG: yeah, post meta
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acegiak post kinds lets other plugins hook in and add extra kinds doesn't it?
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KevinMarks http://quantifi.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Moodpics-copy.jpg
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acegiak oooh!
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KevinMarks that was a graphical mood marker, and you slid your finger over it it went from slumped to excited
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KevinMarks Jawbone Up
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acegiak very neat
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GWG acegiak: Sort of, yes. But my preferred method is to reserve the word in Post Kinds, and have it enabled by the activation of another plugin
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GWG acegiak: What kind are you looking for?
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GWG acegiak: I'll reserve the word for that use if it makes sense(the word, not the concept)
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acegiak yeah the wording is a thing I have to think about
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miklb what is Post Kinds?
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acegiak I think it's probably just "feeling"
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Loqi Post or posts may refer to individual pieces of content published on an indieweb site such as notes, articles, & responses, or the act of creating the aforementioned content (present tense), or Posts about the IndieWeb https://indiewebcamp.com/post_kinds
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GWG What is the Post Kinds Plugin?
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Loqi The Post Kinds Plugin is a WordPress plugin that adds support for responding and interacting with other sites to WordPress https://indiewebcamp.com/Post_Kinds_Plugin
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GWG I should update that
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GWG acegiak: Is that a kind by itself?
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acegiak man, I don't know
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acegiak it's a kind of checkin?
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GWG There are two possibilities.
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miklb what is it if you track what you eat/drink?
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GWG 1. It is tracking your emotional state.
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acegiak yeah, see I feel like that's the same, miklb
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GWG 2. Feelings are data on any kind.
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GWG The first one I'm fine with if we figure out what we call it.
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acegiak GWG: I think this is a good case for multi-kind posts :P
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acegiak but the first is what I actually need right now
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GWG And show you how to enable it in the options in a plugin
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /File:jawbonemood.jpg "Mood icons from Jawbone Up app"
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acegiak first I'm gonna work out how to pull and merge your current version of the post-kinds plugin so I can try and fix the kses issue
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GWG acegiak: I'm not sure with all the changes I made since last time, how it would work in the Post UI now. But I will think about it.
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GWG acegiak: I have pushed some minor bug fixes to the development version.
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kevinmarks.com edited /mood (+118) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: You should be able to pull upstream changes.
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acegiak GWG: How is your progress towards location checkins going
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GWG acegiak: I did a lot of great updates to SImple Location to make it less horrible interface wise.
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GWG acegiak: Like the discussion about adding a plugin to support a kind, such as Feeling or Mood. The idea was enabling the plugin would add the additional location options to Post Kinds.
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acegiak yeah, neat
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KevinMarks On LJ mood is an attribute of a post
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GWG But, where it is...I paused the Location work to work on the Indieweb plugin, because I want to get that done for the community, and I wanted to get it to where I would use it on my own site.
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GWG Then I got bronchitis, and then I was working on some bug fixes for Post Kinds that people had filed. And then I got a new job. And that brings me to today.
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GWG So, ramping back up.
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GWG KevinMarks: That's why I sort of think of mood as a post attribute, not a post kind or type.
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acegiak KevinMarks: yeah, and I wouldn't mind having a way to bunch a couple of post kinds together to say "here is a picture of me, I'm listening to X and feeling Y"
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GWG But that isn't the only way to think of it
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KevinMarks right, that fits wp better
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KevinMarks jawbone has it as it's own type: https://jawbone.com/up/developer/endpoints/mood
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GWG acegiak: If you have, not code, but an idea on how the multikind interface might work you think of, the issue is still open.
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acegiak yeah for mood tracking you want a mood to be a unit of information that can exist on it's own
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acegiak GWG: Yeah's it super tricky
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kevinmarks.com edited /mood (+233) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: That's why you've seen me redesigning the interface several times over its life.
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GWG acegiak: For the new Simple Location interface, I have a pop-up window for more location data I was experimenting with, and I moved the timezone override to the Publication window.
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GWG Let me see if I still have a screenshot of that
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GWG acegiak: https://tiny.n9n.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Screenshot-from-2016-01-26-01-47-26.png
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GWG acegiak: This is a mockup I'd been experimenting with.
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KevinMarks activity streams 1 had mood, as2 has deprecated it
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GWG What is mood?
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Loqi mood is sometimes expressed explicitly in or about a post, by the post author https://indiewebcamp.com/mood
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GWG So, no Indieweb examples
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KevinMarks acegiak can eb fisrt
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KevinMarks :D
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GWG Yes.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replies to: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects #blogging # ..." http://mageemarsh.com/cgi-bin/junco.pl/replies/66949
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acegiak I'm a pioneer :P
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KevinMarks I wonder if aaronpk imported that from jawbone when he was doing his multiple activity trackers
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GWG As tantek would probably say, document examples of mood/feelings so you can make your design.
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KevinMarks he does import the sleep https://aaronparecki.com/sleep
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kevinmarks.com edited /mood (+277) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
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acegiak yeah his sleep data makes me want a fitness tracker/smartwatch
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acegiak if the pebble time had heart rate...
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kevinmarks.com edited /silo-quits (+581) "/* Silo quitters 2016 */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks I had an UP, but it stopped working
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KevinMarks they're $15 now? they were $150 when we got them
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acegiak that's crazy cheap
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KevinMarks hm, says out of stock tho
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acegiak I got my sister a fitness watch for christmas from a brand I'd not heard of before but was within my price range
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acegiak turns out a few months later their app updates and is bugged
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acegiak how hard could it possibly be to make something like a fitness watch with a lil arduino and a couple modules
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acegiak so you don't have to worry about that kind of bullshit
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acegiak same as I'd really like to be able to track my walks with something like runkeeper but then I have to work out how to pull from their API
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acegiak grumbles
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kylewm i dno't know a lot about them but would guess those hobby boards are not rough and tumble enough to be reliable exercise trackers?
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acegiak kylewm: yeah, you're definitely right
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acegiak I'm more just annoyed that I haven't found one that has an android app that's like "what endpoint should we send this json data to?"
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miklb KevinMarks I was so ready to spend $15 :-)
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aaronpk acegiak: until january, all of my walk/run/bike trips were imported from Runkeeper. it's not that bad.
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aaronpk the hobby electronics stuff doesn't get small enough to be actually functional as an activity tracker
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GWG acegiak: Based on the recent post noting URL Forwarder as a newer option for sending things to a web based endpoint, I'm thinking of putting one back into the plugin
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acegiak aaronpk: yeah, I think I just got grumpy about trying to get the authorization thing working with their api
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aaronpk i just did it manually once and then hard-coded the token into my import script
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acegiak this is a good idea
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acegiak ok I need git help
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acegiak I want to pull my git fork of indieweb post kinds
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acegiak and then just override it with all the changes from dshankse's version
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acegiak so that then I can make changes and push back up
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acegiak is there a way I can do that without going through and manually fixing all the conflicts?
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miklb acegiak thinking out loud, but can you add another remote, pull that into a branch, then merge locally?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on How I Set Up My Indieweb WordPress Site by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich https://david.shanske.com/2014/10/02/site-setup/#comment-2212
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acegiak that's what I'm trying to do, just trying to work out how to deal with the merge conflicts that I don't care about
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miklb stash?
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acegiak no the merge conflicts are committed
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acegiak so I think I have to revert to a previous version before those commits?
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acegiak and then pull the specific version which matched at the time from the upstream?
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acegiak and then merge those?
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acegiak and then update to the current upstream version?
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GWG acegiak: From the looks of it, all the commits since my last commit have been addressed, I think.
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miklb acegiak yes, if you don't care about the commits, you could revert
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acegiak what I'm saying is there isn't an easy way to do that
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miklb you can git reset to a specific hash, or checkout to a previous hash
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miklb isn't a git pro
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GWG acegiak: I do have some things I'd like to pick your brain on.
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acegiak go ahead!
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acegiak I've fixed my git problem
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/issues/41
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GWG Had this request.
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GWG Trying to decide under what circumstances the name of the article being responded to should become the name of the post.
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acegiak legit
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acegiak you could have an option to do it
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acegiak or a button
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acegiak you could make your title the same as the original post's title
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acegiak you could make it RE: original title
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acegiak or you could take the tumblr approach and make it original author: original title
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GWG Displaying it is the job of the theme either way.
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acegiak whisperfollow just sets the title to the title of the original
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acegiak true that
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acegiak oh for fuck's sake, git that's
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acegiak ugh
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acegiak https://github.com/acegiak/indieweb-post-kinds/commit/839bb01c4a4b0bdac1b3eab6b5bb99b31b3072b2
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acegiak I added three lines in each file
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acegiak GWG: okiedoke, PR on your desk there for you
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GWG acegiak: The auto set to note I may bring in, but it may conflict with my plan to set the default as an option, so I may pull it, then modify it to add the get_option.
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GWG But for now, it is 2AM here. I'm heading off
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acegiak !tell GWG you should accept my change and then modify it later when you want to be able to set the default option
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[kevinmarks] Talking of authentication: https://twitter.com/sonjaheinen/status/710480184072409088?s=09
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@sonjaheinen Most couple's say they exchange keys to each other's APIs between the 12th and 14th date. (twitter.com/_/status/710480184072409088)
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www.derhess.de edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+177) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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marcthiele.com edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+449) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@sl007 @diplix @renefischer @dasnuf @svensonsan 7. Mai https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf (twitter.com/_/status/710791181379174400)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replies to: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects #blogging # ..." http://mageemarsh.com/cgi-bin/junco.pl/replies/66949
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@voxpelli Great talk by @laurakalbag at @Malmo_CM today + great chat with @aral. Great inspiration for my talk this wednesday: http://www.foocafe.org/event/beyond-twitter-an-indieweb-future-for-social-media (twitter.com/_/status/710813893971542016)
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voxpelli Hi Loqi!
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petermolnar whoa, that link from mageermarsh.com earlier: /cgi-bin/junco.pl !!! I haven't seen a link like this in a long while; it's good to see Perl jumping in as well.
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acegiak ok, I have a very rough draft of a working mood tracking post kind
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acegiak https://acegiak.net/2016/03/18/feeling-productive/
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acegiak I'll try and keep this repo up to date
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acegiak https://github.com/acegiak/moodkind
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acegiak.net edited /mood (+454) "Adding myself as first indieweb example." (view diff)
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acegiak Ok! bedtime for me!
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GWG Good night, acegiak
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Loqi GWG: acegiak left you a message 4 hours, 14 minutes ago: you should accept my change and then modify it later when you want to be able to set the default option http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-18/line/1458293670917
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Loqi sweet dreams
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@fohlin RT @voxpelli Great talk by @laurakalbag at @Malmo_CM today + great chat with @aral. Great inspiration for my talk this wednesday: http://www.foocafe.org/event/beyond-twitter-an-indieweb-future-for-social-media (twitter.com/_/status/710844722332487680)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replies to: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects #blogging # ..." http://mageemarsh.com/cgi-bin/junco.pl/replies/66949
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@RikMende Wishing I could #POSSE my reply/repost/stars/like when I interact with content on https://woodwind.xyz/ #indieweb… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/wishing-i-could-posse-my-replyrepoststarslike-when-i-interact-with (twitter.com/_/status/710857853825724416)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Wishing I could #POSSE my reply/repost/stars/like when I interact with content on https://woodwind.xyz/ #indieweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/wishing-i-could-posse-my-replyrepoststarslike-when-i-interact-with
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@aral RT @voxpelli Great talk by @laurakalbag at @Malmo_CM today + great chat with @aral. Great inspiration for my talk this wednesday: http://www.foocafe.org/event/beyond-twitter-an-indieweb-future-for-social-media (twitter.com/_/status/710858262661480452)
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myfreeweb woodwind still doesn't find the micropub endpoint in the link header? :(
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kylewm myfreeweb: it does
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kylewm whoa, belay that maybe it doesn't
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kylewm (i'm not sure why you say "still", this is the first time anyone's mentioned it afaik)
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myfreeweb yeah flask_micropub.py: micropub_endpoint = soup.find('link', {'rel': 'micropub'})
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Loqi [indieweb] "
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kylewm myfreeweb: should work now, lmk
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kylewm lol, urchin tracker woodwind.xyz!
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myfreeweb okay now it found it but: bad response from token endpoint: <Response [201]>
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[kevinmarks] Hm, escaping problem here somewhere http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/adactio-linksmdashprogressive-web-apps-the-long-game
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Kevin Marks
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@balkanmehlika1 RT @voxpelli Great talk by @laurakalbag at @Malmo_CM today + great chat with @aral. Great inspiration for my talk this wednesday: http://www.foocafe.org/event/beyond-twitter-an-indieweb-future-for-social-media (twitter.com/_/status/710868616778878976)
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[kevinmarks] Have we defined how to handle entities in micropub?
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adactio kevinmarks: I've just changed my markup to use a regular em-dash instead of the entity.
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[kevinmarks] Thanks Jeremy, but it's worth checking which bit of the h-feed, woodwind, micropub, known, Twitter chain is not normalising.
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[aaronpk] If you're sending HTML content in Micropub you need to explicitly indicate that. It's documented in the latest draft and Quill does that now too.
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emmak_ are plain text contents still sent the old way?
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Loqi emmak_: cweiske left you a message on 2/1 at 11:33pm: your site does not seem to have search anymore. if that's permanent, please remove yourself from http://indiewebcamp.com/search#IndieWeb_Examples http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-01/line/1454398414249
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aaronpk Yeah if you don't say it's HTML explicitly then it is interpreted as plaintext
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notenoughneon.com edited /search (-242) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ remove notenoughneon, site no longer supports search" (view diff)
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myfreeweb kylewm: sent you a pull request to flask-micropub re: 2xx success status instead of just 200
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[kevinmarks] So is this an mf2 parsing thing? Should p-name resolve entities to utf8?
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aaronpk Is that behavior not defined yet? I assume it would be and that the test suite would have examples
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Loqi [indieweb] "
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KevinMarks LOL I brok unmung testing it http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=&html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-name%22%3EEntity+%26mdash%3B+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-name%22%3Eunicode+%E2%80%94+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
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KevinMarks so the mf2 parser is doing what I thought http://www.unmung.com/?url=&html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-name%22%3EEntity+%26mdash%3B+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-name%22%3Eunicode+%E2%80%94+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
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KevinMarks hm, actually that probabky sin't what we ant, is it
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KevinMarks the json should be in utf8, not python escaped unicode
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KevinMarks bugger
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andicascadesf Interesting topic – open source for game design (working with consoles)
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Loqi andicascadesf: tantek left you a message on 12/17 at 5:03am: thank you for helping out with taking notes at the Homebrew Website Club meetup! :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-17/line/1450357427167
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KevinMarks hm, python json.dumps() puts unicode in if you have unicode strings, nto utf8
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KevinMarks thats annoying
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KevinMarks I don't think JSON offically supports \u2014 etc does it?
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KevinMarks oh, maybe it deos
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KevinMarks so it's a matter of taste if you \u encode unicode in json
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KevinMarks encoding and escaping, so many ways to do it o_O
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KevinMarks I wrote an issue on mf2py https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/65
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KevinMarks but I'm still not sure what expected practice is for utf8 encoded or \u encoded json
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KevinMarks hm http://www.unmung.com/?url=&html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22e-name%22%3EEntity+%26mdash%3B+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22e-name%22%3Eunicode+%E2%80%94+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
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KevinMarks not sure that HTML should have \u2014 in it there
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KevinMarks pin13 doesn't have a text entry box
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tommorris KevinMarks: will take a look shortly
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kylewm KevinMarks: it does, pin13.net/mf2
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KevinMarks so pin13 puts \u in the html field as well
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KevinMarks I'm wondering if having \u escaped unicode in an field called html is a good idea.
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KevinMarks I can see that potentially going wrong in some languages
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aaronpk I thought that was at the JSON encoding layer
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aaronpk so JSON decoding returns the actual character
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KevinMarks right, but the you hit a unicode vs tf8 issue
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KevinMarks I can see that blowing up in a language that uses 16-bit unicode by default
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KevinMarks so the emdash would work, but an emoji would barf
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KevinMarks or an \u2014 might show up in the html
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KevinMarks http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160318113749769
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kylewm are you worried about like Java not handling /u escape codes because its strings are UTF-16?
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aaronpk Seems fine http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160318114707686
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KevinMarks Java, MySQL, Perl, who knows
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KevinMarks encoding is hard
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kylewm wouldn't it barf just as bad on the emoji itself, if it was going to barf on a 32-bit /u value?
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aaronpk Unrelated, I still haven't figured out why webmention.io won't store emojis in a utf8mb4 column.
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KevinMarks http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160318114934230
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aaronpk Click the "render HTML" checkbox and it prints it on the page too
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KevinMarks no, becasue if it is a utf8 string, if it handles it naively by concatenating bytes it will still work
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KevinMarks would http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22e-name%22%3EEntity+%26mdash%3B+emdash%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cspan+class%3D%22e-name%22%3Eunicode+%E2%80%94+emdash+%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8F%E2%9A%A1%EF%B8%8F%3C%2Fspan%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on be better?
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KevinMarks this is the irony with MySQL
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KevinMarks I was happily storing utf8 in 12 years ago when it just treated strings as bytes
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aaronpk That was my solution for webmention.io
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aaronpk s/solution/workaround
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: That was my workaround for webmention.io
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gRegorLove Hey, cool. I didn't realize pin13 stored parsed results. For how long?
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gRegorLove What is pin13?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pin13" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GW
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KevinMarks (I just changed unmung to convert unicode to utf8 in json output)
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bear if your using python and trying to store unicode in json - you have to make sure everything is .encode('utf8') before passing to json
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bear (in order to avoid \u in your json output)
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks or you can pass ensure_ascii=False to json.dumps() and it will make it into utf8
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bear oh, I keep forgetting about ensure_ascii
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bear I have an ugly convert_all_to_byte() function that walks objects to force everything to utf8
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KevinMarks well, the tricky part is if you use .dump() and the writer doesn't understand you will get an encoding barf at runtime
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bear nods
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KevinMarks but dumps() works becasuse the string writer understands
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bear I always use dumps()
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KevinMarks me to, but it is making an extra copy and using RAM, so…
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bear makes a note to audit all of his new code for ensure_ascii=False usage
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KevinMarks tantek - what is good practice on html containing unicode characters? My gut says 'use utf8'
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bear yea, that will be a "fun" worry if any of my projects get into that scale of production where I have to worry about ram
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tantek yes utf8
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tantek utf8++
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Loqi utf8 has 2 karma
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bear your talking about using <meta charset='utf-8'> in the <html> section?
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tantek checks logs
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bear looks like git 2.7.4 is out - and this time they promise to fix the fix this time - ugh
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miklb bear so the security issues weren't fixed in 2.7.2?
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bear or 2.7.3 it seems
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bear our infosec team is looking into it now
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barnabywalters snarfed: is there a way to see markup for bridgy event RSVP backfeed mentions? I’m getting a lot of weird-looking results here: https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4gJKBB/
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Loqi [Barnaby Walters] Event: Tanzimpro/Balfolk Workshop in Multikulti
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barnabywalters woah stead on loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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barnabywalters s/stead/steady
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: woah steady on loqi
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bear miklb - yes, 2.7.4 contains the security fixes (they evidently applied the patches to the master but not to the release branches)
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miklb bear good to know.
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bear yep
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miklb sounds like something I would do (apply patch to master & not a release branch) :-)
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miklb bear by the way, was cool to recognize you when researching python Twitter clients.
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miklb s/clients/libraries
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Loqi miklb meant to say: bear by the way, was cool to recognize you when researching python Twitter libraries.
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bear yea, I'm amazed at how many people use that thing
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miklb I don't really know python, but have had an itch to learn more, so am looking at building a Twitterbot as a means to familiarize myself with it more
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bear ah - yea, python-twitter is a great way to do that - simply enough to use in small test scripts
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kylewm barnabywalters: it's not great, but if you open the log entry you can usually find the URL of the webmention source in there, e.g. https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/100001398384863/557877497711850/100001398384863
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Loqi [Barnaby Walters] is attending.
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barnabywalters kylewm: thanks, I’ll see if I can figure out what’s causing all of these empty comments
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kylewm invites likely
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barnabywalters yeah, they’re invites, I’m trying to figure out why they looks so bad when interpreted as comments by (non-invite-aware) Taproot
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barnabywalters presumably the markup was built on the principle of graceful fallback for simple software which has to handle fancy things like invites and RSVPs as comments
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kylewm bridgy's invites don't have a p-author, that always causes me headaches
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barnabywalters yeah, that seems to be the problem
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barnabywalters I wonder if the person who invited the invitee(?) is available in the API somewhere
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barnabywalters seems like it would make sense to make them the author
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kylewm no :(
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barnabywalters and at least to include the invitee markup in the p-name
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barnabywalters so there aren’t hundreds of comments saying “invited”
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barnabywalters oh that’s a pity
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kylewm facebook--
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Loqi facebook has -13 karma
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barnabywalters well I’ll go and update Taproot to handle these in a not-quite-so-messy way
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barnabywalters looks like the best way of telling if something is an invite is presence of p-invitee
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barnabywalters I’ll just default to storing the author as myself if there’s an authorless invite, and include the invitee name when the content is displayed
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KevinMarks gillmor gnag time
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tantek since we have more h-event support going on, I'm looking at adding event to post type discovery
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tantek also I'd like to add checkins since it's been a challenging one in the past and I think I've solved it, and I'd like to get review / get people to poke holes
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery#Feature_consideration_checkin
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aaronpk Along with corresponding rsvp and invite posts?
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ben_thatmustbeme i just noticed, it worked! https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/3/15/11/
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] This is a post that is offline!
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ben_thatmustbeme second level replies
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tantek aaronpk: rvsp is already in
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aaronpk Ah cool
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tantek since so many people consistently supported it (and receiving them)
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ben_thatmustbeme i had to adjust the data it pulled back because it definitely got blank data for source URL and author
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tantek looking at invitation
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tantek /invitation is under consideration
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KevinMarks what is this week?
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Loqi This Week in the IndieWeb is a weekly digest of activities of the IndieWebCamp community https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week
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aaronpk How do you post a photo with a checkin? According to that it would just be a photo
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tantek aaronpk: as a photo reply to the checkin
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aaronpk Huh
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tantek in practice posting a photo with a checkin is not as realtime / timely
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tantek per your reasoning!
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tantek deciding / framing / taking the photo takes time (latency, not real time)
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tantek choosing the photo among those taken, posting the photo (compressing, uploading) takes time (more latency, delay)
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tantek all of that latency / delay = disconnected from the actual realtime moment you got to the venue, thus less and less likely to actually *represent* a realtime checkin
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KevinMarks well, instagram posse to foursquare does it in one operation
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kylewm seems like photo is one of those things that always causes trouble. maybe "has a photo" should be orthogonal to the post type discovery algorithm
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ben_thatmustbeme nothing of a checkin really says its the "moment you got there"
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tantek KevinMarks: that's a cross-post not POSSE. no URL shared. etc.
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tantek and all the latency points still apply
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ben_thatmustbeme its more like a "i'm announcing i'm here"
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tantek I use IG like that to post "Postsquare" checkins
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KevinMarks retrospective checkin is a case too
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tantek kylewm: that doesn't follow
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tantek KevinMarks: nope - those are not really checkins per the stricter definition aaronpk proposed
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tantek kylewm: if something "causes" trouble it usually indicates it should just be *lower* in the algorithm
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tantek not orthogonal
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snarfed tantek: good timing! we closed a bridgy bug just recently with "because post type discovery" :P https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/635
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tantek wow
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kylewm hmm, if any post type can have a photo, i'm not convinced that having a photo is meaningful
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kylewm in terms of post type discovery
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tantek snarfed: any feedback for me to improve the algorithm?
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tantek kylewm: any post can have text too
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snarfed i kinda agree with kylewm. many post types can have photos, which doesn't necessarily change the post type. plenty of silo examples of this too
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tantek again, I think you're concluding more than you can
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KevinMarks maybe a photo post is if it has a photo and not other info
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ben_thatmustbeme which is why photo / note should be the last two in the algorithm i would say
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kylewm tantek: uh, right. and having text doesn't imply one post type or another
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tantek ^^^ ben_thatmustbeme is reasoning with the right constraints
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snarfed eh yeah, maybe "further down" is good enough
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kylewm so a reply with a photo is a reply, but a note with a photo is a photo? seems arbitrary
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ben_thatmustbeme not really, reply actually has meaning moreso than the photo with it
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snarfed it also just says post type discovery is useful, but not the final word. you may often still need check if a post has a photo (or video, content, etc), regardless of its type
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ben_thatmustbeme a photo has more meaning than just a simple note
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: right, it's somewhat by order of "richness", and by "specificity of intention"
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tantek e.g. a video is richer than a photo is richer than text
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tantek but an rsvp (with text!) is more specific than a reply
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tantek and text with an in-reply-to (AKA a reply) is more specific than a plain text note
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kylewm there's a fundamental problem there though, a photo with a location on instagram is a Photo; PESATAS to Foursquare, teh same thing becomes a Checkin
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tantek kylewm: because every post (without an in-reply-to) on Foursquare is a checkin
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tantek that's because of Foursquare's post type limitations
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed, i've long argued that checkin with photo is different from photo with location, but i think its probably correct to say that a checkin requires a "location" not just gps
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tantek not because everything you do is a checkin
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ben_thatmustbeme feels like i'm splitting hairs there though
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: the important thing about splitting such hairs is to do so with empirical real world examples to reason with
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tantek rather than purely philosophical semantic arguments
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KevinMarks would classic dopplr be a checkin? or a future event?
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tantek dopplr supported many types of "posts" so you have to be more specific
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tantek what is dopplr?
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Loqi Dopplr was a silo for sharing future travel plans https://indiewebcamp.com/Dopplr
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tantek start with citing and/or adding examples there to back up your question(s)
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tantek re: dopplr
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: I think I just illustrated that a photo with a location and a checkin with a photo are the same thing. just interpreted differently depending on the context/site they are posted on
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aaronpk i haven't heard any mention yet of what these post types *look* like
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tantek aaronpk: on the individual post type pages
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aaronpk with the photo on instagram copied to swarm, the two end up looking very different
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tantek kylewm: theoretically yes. in practice no
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aaronpk i actually just did that the other day. let me dig it up
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tantek when I looked at individual examples of photo + location, and analyzed them per aaronpk's proposed opinions about what is a checkin, they clustered pretty well
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tantek the analysis is summarized in the proposal on /ptd
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tantek the details of how that analysis was derived are in the IRC chat as of when I wrote it up!
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aaronpk why is it useful to know if something is "a photo" post?
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: interesting question, are they the same thing just interpretted differently
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aaronpk a consumer (showing a comment, or displaying the post in a reader) is probably going to want to show the photo on any kind of post if there's a photo
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tantek aaronpk: do you have a /photos feed?
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ben_thatmustbeme well, those may be very different though, checkin with a photo is one thing (additional info) but a series of photo posts could be grouped together (as facebook does)
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tantek do you include "checkins with photos" there? or just "photos with locations" ?
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tantek clustering is another use-case
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tantek what is clustering?
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Loqi notifications in the context of the IndieWeb refer to all forms and ways that an independent web site can receive a message indicating something of interest (server notifications), and potentially relay that information (preferably in realtime) to one or more devices used by the owner of that site (client notifications) https://indiewebcamp.com/clustering
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tantek what is a photos list?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "photos list" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GX
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tantek what is a photo list?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "photo list" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GY
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tantek what is an event list?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "event list" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GZ
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tantek what is an events list?
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Loqi An events listing is a page or portion of a page (like on a homepage) of an indieweb site that shows a list of events, including some subset of the site's own event, invitation, and RSVP posts, displayed as a list or grid of some sort https://indiewebcamp.com/events_list
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tantek event list is [[events list]]
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loqi.me created /event_list (+24) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-18/line/1458333674300 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek does anyone have a page of just their photo posts?
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aaronpk the answer to "do you include checkins with ___" is always going to be "no" because I don't have checkins on my site yet
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aaronpk I do have a photos feed https://aaronparecki.com/photos
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tantek photos page :)
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aaronpk but like all my pages that show a time-ordered series of posts, it is possible for any post to appear in any or multiple of them
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aaronpk i just have some default rules for sorting posts when they are created
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tantek aaronpk: photos stream, just saw the "load more"
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aaronpk sure we can call it a stream instead of a feed
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tantek aaronpk: the rest of the world does from a UI perspective
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tantek it's only plumbing geeks (including us) that are stuck on the non-user-friendly term "feed"
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: thinking about it more, there is a big difference between those two (photo w/ location vs checkin w/ photo). A checkin in an active intentional action. the location attatched to a photo is passive. I know rhiaro builds a list of where she has been based on checkins, if photos triggered that it would be a big difference
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aaronpk except facebook: "news feed"
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tantek aaronpk: would you include all posts with "location" information into a checkins stream?
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aaronpk no i definitely would not
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tantek aaronpk: did you ever figure out how Foursquare knew? https://aaronparecki.com/2016/03/08/10/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] How does it know??? #foursquare
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KevinMarks what about venue rather than location
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tantek KevinMarks: please re-read the proposal. that's in there already
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aaronpk nope i still venue-tag photos
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery#Feature_consideration_checkin
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aaronpk i think it assumed i was going to boston because i clicked on two hotels there earlier
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KevinMarks you had searched 'hotel boston' ?
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aaronpk no just looked up the hotels tantek and i were staying at
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: yeah totally agree, it's a different intention
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aaronpk okay so here's the same post on instagram and foursquare. https://www.instagram.com/p/BDFAPt8Dco6/ https://www.swarmapp.com/aaronpk/checkin/56eb6d13498ea01377e65dad
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tantek btw, to the arguments about cross-posting from IG to 4sq, just because you can shove a round peg into a square hole, does not mean that the peg is somehow magically also square, or square *instead*
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tantek posting a photo with location info to IG is the round page to a round hole, and foursquare is the square hole in that example
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aaronpk if you look at each without knowing which it's "supposed" to be, it seems pretty clear from the UI that the one on instagram is a photo and the one on foursquare is a checkin
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aaronpk look at the hierarchy of information in them
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tantek the user intention is still "photo" specifically because of their decision to post to IG!
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tantek nope, the one on foursquare is also a photo
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tantek masquerading as a checkin
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aaronpk why
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aaronpk that doesn't make any sense
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tantek the round peg does not magically become a square peg
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tantek it's the same peg
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KevinMarks or swarm and instagram are views that emphasise checkin and photo respectively?
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tantek not emphasize, but limited to
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tantek thus by choosing which app, the user is showing their post type intent
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tantek (and video on IG)
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aaronpk so this is also a photo masquerading as a checkin? https://www.swarmapp.com/aaronpk/checkin/56ec5901498e578821ee094a
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tantek here's another cross-post reasoning example
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aaronpk what does masquerading as a checkin even mean?
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tantek just because you can cross-post ANYTHING to Twitter, does not make EVERYTHING a tweet
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tantek or a note
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myfreeweb i read that as "masquerading as a chicken"
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tantek e.g. Nike+ to Twitter
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tantek a Nike+ "post" is still a "run", despite cross-posting it to Twitter
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KevinMarks right, but when I choose to crosspost to swarm from IG I am deciding that it will present as a checkin
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tantek secondarily to your intent to post a photo
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tantek you are not deciding, you have no choice of post type on swarm
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks https://www.instagram.com/p/BDEHNhgxKEW/?taken-by=kevinmarks is not a checkin
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tantek you're deciding to put up with their limitations and shoving the round peg into the square hole
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KevinMarks https://www.instagram.com/p/BBofTYLxKF6/?taken-by=kevinmarks is
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aaronpk i'm still shocked at how nobody else is thinking about the UI of these
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tantek presentation?
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tantek or was there a specific interaction you had in mind?
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aaronpk presentation
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aaronpk checkins show the location as the primary object on the page, with photo posts, the photo is the primary object
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aaronpk even on https://www.swarmapp.com/aaronpk/checkin/56eb6d13498ea01377e65dad the photo appears below the fold
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tantek sounds like we need more documentation of actual real world presentation of checkins
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aaronpk there's no way you can convince me that is a photo, even though i posted it from instagram
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KevinMarks does ownyourgram delete its test post?
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aaronpk delete? no
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tantek aaronpk: that's a limitation of Swarm
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tantek again, just like being able to shove any post type into Twitter
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aaronpk but I only cross-posted it to swarm because I *wanted* to check in
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tantek and the response being "there's no way you can convince me that is not a tweet"
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tantek but I only cross-posted to Twitter because I wanted to tweet.
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tantek does not make it a tweet
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aaronpk once it's on twitter it literally is a tweet
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tantek or else everything is a tweet, and that's reductio absurdum
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aaronpk everything on twitter is a tweet, by definition of twitter!
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tantek or it's a limitation of Twitter only presenting things as tweets
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tantek rather than the thing actually *being* a tweet
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aaronpk we should also step back and think about why we even need to be able to determine the type of a post at all
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tantek or a note if the branded post term is causing confusion
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Loqi yea
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tantek aaronpk: because 1 use-cases, 2 systems that require explicit typing
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aaronpk with my site rebuild, I tried to avoid explicit typing as much as possible
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aaronpk there are a few cases where I need to make some hard decisions, and it's because those are the cases I need to use a different presentation template for the post
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aaronpk when I add checkins to my site, they are going to look very different from all current posts, mainly the venue name is going to be emphasized over everything else in the post
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aaronpk the other time i need to know more about the specific type is to sort posts into the different "channels" like photos/events/travel/transport/health/etc
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kylewm aaronpk++ for step back, i feel like this whole conversation is trying to put a round peg (posted made of composable pieces) into a square hole (discrete post types)
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Loqi aaronpk has 95 karma
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aaronpk in all cases, I need to know a more specific type (more specific than "post") because of some presentation issue
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tantek kylewm: but that's exactly what aaronpk is trying to do (channels = discrete post types)
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aaronpk no, channels are not discrete post types
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aaronpk all events show in "events", some events show in "travel"
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tantek.com edited /checkin (+526) "stub silo examples and former silo examples, NEED SCREENSHOTS" (view diff)
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aaronpk there's a bunch of overlapping rules that make a post appear in multiple channels
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tantek contributions welcome for further analysis: https://indiewebcamp.com/checkin#Silo_Examples
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tantek aaronpk: that makes sense
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aaronpk (walk => transport, health, walks) (plane => travel, transport, flights) (food => health, ate) etc etc.
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tantek anyway - post examples on the wiki to use for more reasoning
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aaronpk ironically, we need to come to some sort of conclusion on this before I can add checkins to my site, since I use mf2 vocabulary as storage
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tantek either those examples will led to refinement (or rewriting) of https://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery#Feature_consideration_checkin OR we may "give up" and end up with creating a new property like "p-checkin" that is similar to "p-location", just as we added "u-like-of" which is similar in that regard to "u-in-reply-to"
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tantek in that latter case a client that is creating a checkin post would be required to add a "p-checkin" property that is also an h-card/h-adr/h-geo
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tantek and then PTD would trigger off the presence of that property, just as it triggers off the presence of p-rsvp
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@jevdemon @windley @DavidsonCollege love the idea of personal APIs. Does this align with #indieweb concepts? (twitter.com/_/status/710936579598983169)
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tantek snarfed: if you were going to do that, check out /quotation
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tantek welcome back Loqi
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek you missed some discussion
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snarfed tantek: right! i remember. twitter's is more constrained though; just wondering if we know the exact mf2 that would map vs not
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snarfed meh
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tantek from that page
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snarfed also kinda hates the idea of a personal API
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#How_to_markup
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tantek what is a personal API?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "personal API" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10G_
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myfreeweb hmm "u-quotation-of" doesn't seem necessary to me
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snarfed tantek: right, i'm familiar with that. i just don't think we've talked about exact semantics for mapping u-quotation-of/h-cite to/from quote tweets specifically
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm. http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-03-18.html
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myfreeweb u-repost-of h-cite + your own e-content == repost with comment
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snarfed eg if the mf2 quote is in the middle of the content, do we care? since quote tweets can only put the quotation at the end
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snarfed etc
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tantek snarfed: twitter has plenty of limitations, we POSSE anyway
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snarfed myfreeweb: definitely necessary if you want to map to quote tweet, since we need the quoted tweet's url
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tantek the existence of limitations is not itself a reason not to POSSE
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snarfed tantek: sure! not saying we shouldn't. just saying we need to figure out details
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snarfed as usual
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tantek so no, we don't care
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myfreeweb snarfed: .u-repost-of.h-cite .u-url
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tantek just like we don't care that we can only post ~120 chars to a POSSE tweet
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snarfed myfreeweb: semantics of quoting vs reposting are different
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tantek yup
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snarfed ducks followup questions
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aaronpk a quoted tweet always seemed like it was just including another tweet URL in my tweet. is it different?
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tantek guidance on repost vs quotation https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#repost
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snarfed aaronpk: tweet url just has to be at the end.
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aaronpk on twitter it does
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myfreeweb "Use a quotation when you are only quoting part of someone else's post, not the whole thing" well no one quotes only part of 140 characters
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aaronpk i'm almost certain you can find a counterexample to that very quickly
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snarfed yup
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tantek aaronpk: re: /invitation (previous event / rsvp discussion)
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tantek before adding to PTD, I'm going to need to see more real world examples here: https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation
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tantek in particular https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk probably a good idea
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tantek dang we're down to zero "active" examples
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tantek.com edited /invitation (+118) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ move kylewm example to previous, note Redwind" (view diff)
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aaronpk i'm on board with the suggested markup on /quotation
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KevinMarks tantek, did you see the context of my html comment? whether parsed mf2 shoudl have \u2014 etc in the html field
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tantek did not
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tantek could you add to microformats2-parsing-issues?
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KevinMarks https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/65
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aaronpk hm my bookmark markup changed
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KevinMarks OK, will do
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aaronpk nvm, the description on that page is still accurate
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tantek aaronpk: your bookmark examples were key to analyzing and describing quotation posts
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aaronpk glad i could help
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tantek aside, Instagram has been making tons of subtle changes to their web presentation of photo permalinks
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tantek interesting for photo presentation analysis
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-swarm-checkin-stream-with-photo-and-description.png]]""
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tantek and I'm expecting anyone scraping Instagram permalinks
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-swarm-checkin-stream-with-people-and-movie.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /checkin (+185) "/* Swarm */" (view diff)
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tantek hmm! Firefox with Noscript displays IG permalinks VERY differently than Safari (executing script) !
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tantek also sometime last year IG changed their JPG hosting URLs, breaking anybody that was linking to / embedding any IG JPGS
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tantek is fixing posts one at a time as he needs to link to them
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snarfed tantek: instagram's html was js;dr last time i checked, but the permalinks include very usable JSON, so most scrapers would probably use that
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tantek hmm
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snarfed granary does, bridgy will. https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/instagram.py#L567
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snarfed example JSON: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/test/test_instagram.py#L427
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aaronpk tests++
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Loqi tests has 18 karma
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tantek snarfed: you're right I think I whitelisted IG's scripts from their domain
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tantek but not 3rd party scripts
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tantek IG presents photos full bleed on FF, but in a box on Safari
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tantek info / comments below photo on FF
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tantek on the right side of the photo on Safari
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barnabywalters I’d be curious to hear feedback on my granular yes/no/maybe/interested RSVP presentation here: https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4gJKBB/
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Loqi [Barnaby Walters] Event: Tanzimpro/Balfolk Workshop in Múltí Kúltí
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-03-18.html (twitter.com/_/status/710948904653553664)
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barnabywalters as well as any ideas for an icon for “invited”?
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KevinMarks tantek: is that an artefact of different media query triggering on the 2?
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barnabywalters I don’t think I saw any indie sites publishing events with granular RSVP counts so far. I think p3k and known do granular presentation
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tantek good call KevinMarks - I had somehow zoomed the FF window and thus it was "smaller" from the page's perspective
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tantek barnabywalters: aaronpk does
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tantek see aaronparecki.com/events
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barnabywalters I just see “4 RSVPs” in the count section https://aaronparecki.com/2016/03/16/13/
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Loqi W3C Social Web Face-To-Face Meeting
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barnabywalters unless no/interested/maybe RSVPs aren’t included in that count?
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KevinMarks barnaby: envelope emoji for invitation? ✉️
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barnabywalters KevinMarks: good idea!
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KevinMarks ✉️📨📩
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barnabywalters not going to use actual emoji characters as that’d look inconsistent with the rest of my icons
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KevinMarks also 💌
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barnabywalters but an envelope icon is a good idea
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tantek what is 💌?
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Loqi An RSVP is a type of post that is a reply to an event post https://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%92%8C
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tantek ;)
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aaronpk doesn't facebook use ?
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aaronpk to indicate no response
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KevinMarks apparently that's a love letter as opposed to a letter
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tantek envelope is already used to mean "email"
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tantek on online UIs
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tantek all the plain envelopes that is
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aaronpk hm I can't find the "?" example anymore
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barnabywalters it’ll do until there’s a better idea
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tantek aaronpk: I'm just seeing "?"
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KevinMarks wow google's is terrible https://design.google.com/icons/#ic_insert_invitation
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aaronpk ah facebook shows the profile photo with no icon overlay if there is no response
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-03-18-15-07-54.png
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-swarm-checkin-permalink-with-photo.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /checkin (+59) "/* Swarm */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks noun project seems to converge on an envelope with a card in: https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=invitation
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barnabywalters now I just have to figure out why bridgy invitation mentions don’t update properly in taproot, and why duplicates can be allowed
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barnabywalters tomorrow. goodnight!
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Loqi gute nacht!
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acegiak Morning, all!
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tantek hmm FB showing of URLs in <title>s of my photos is motivating me to fix that ASAP
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tantek so that the /link-preview that it shows does not include long URLs (at the start of a post)
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tantek now to brainstorm about how to best do that, and if it makes sense as a CASSIS function
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snarfed tantek: same with your atom! (instagram urls)
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snarfed your photo posts have been ugly in my reader for a long time :P
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snarfed ah well
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tantek snarfed: yeah :( sorry
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@Asif2BD #Webmentions Looks promising! Is #W3C Replicating the #WordPress #Pingback System? http://wptavern.com/is-w3c-replicating-the-wordpress-pingback-system via @wptavern by @pollyplummer (twitter.com/_/status/710963411207790594)
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[kevinmarks] I added url truncation to the python version of autolink
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tantek I can't find the itch
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miklb wow, the comments in that post are already full of hate :-(
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tantek KevinMarks: how did you do it?
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snarfed url truncation as in prettifying? drop scheme, ellipsize at a certain length, etc?
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tantek snarfed, nah I'm thinking omit all URLs that result in no visual text content in the normal auto_link case
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tantek from the *start*
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aaronpk I've definitely used URLs in a sentence, and it seems that would break that case
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aaronpk oh wait i think i see what you mean
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tantek that article is not bad!
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tantek "But Webmentions also look better aesthetically in the comments section. Pingback comments look robotic and aren’t exactly readable; a Pingback comment contains the title of the post that sent the Pingback and an ellipsed summary that doesn’t make much sense."
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tantek YES
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tantek "Webmentions look and feel like human comments "
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tantek lol can't see comments thanks to js;dr :)
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miklb what is js;dr
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Loqi js;dr is JavaScript required; Didn’t Read https://indiewebcamp.com/js;dr
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miklb nods
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Is W3C Replicating the WordPress Pingback System? – WordPress Tavern" http://wptavern.com/is-w3c-replicating-the-wordpress-pingback-system (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/03/18/12/)
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aaronpk so i just fixed a nasty bug with Compass which was causing a bunch of my trips to get dropped, and now just went through the whole boston trip logs and filled in my history :)
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aaronpk turns out a key/value store doesn't do well when you try to store two different things with the same key
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tantek heh
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bear that is part of why I always store even intermediate/calculated data when processing things -- being able to replay events
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tantek hey aaronpk when Loqi shows tweets here that have a photo, he says [Photo} (or [photo]?) is that Loqi doing that or Twitter?
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek and have you ever seen it do [Video} instead?
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aaronpk that's Loqi doing that
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk I thought he didn't do it in this channel, only other channels
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tantek pretty sure I've seen it here
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aaronpk I was getting complaints that the Loqi tweet expansions were "noisy" since the photo URL ends up looking the same as the tweet permalink
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GWG I'm very annoyed at the WP Tavern article.
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+866) "/* improve photo posts */ fix photo plain text title name" (view diff)
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tantek GWG really?
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tantek it seemed quite positive
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aaronpk the article was positive, but definitely had some errors
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GWG Do you remember a while back when I was talking about contributing a guest post on Webmentions?
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GWG That was to WP Tavern.
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@MicropubInfo Flask-Micropub 0.2.6: This extension adds the ability to login to a Flask-based website using IndieAuth (https... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpypi.python.org%2Fpypi%2FFlask-Micropub%2F0.2.6&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNGImgJo2_iefQNsO8hR7s0cdQleoQ (twitter.com/_/status/710974317912150016)
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tantek GWG, the article did link to your work right?
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GWG It did?
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aaronparecki.com edited /DDOS (+188) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, if you have additional suggestions re: fixing feed reader post names/titles for my photo posts: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#fix_photo_plain_text_title_name
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tantek hoping to fix later tonight (after dinner and such)
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snarfed tantek: cool! just removing the URL; the rest is good
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tantek like would it help if you saw "[photo] rest of text" in your feed reader
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tantek or "[video] rest of text"
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tantek (in the list view)
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tantek (presumably that's where the problem is)
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tantek figuring I might as well consider improving the experience beyond the minimal fix, whether or not I implement it