#indiewebcamp 2016-03-28

2016-03-28 UTC
nitot, snarfed and j12t joined the channel
#
@oSoftDev Not bad for less than 2 days work :) #indieweb https://twitter.com/DataC5155/status/714250700490948608 (twitter.com/_/status/714250974853013504)
j12t, snarfed, mlncn, nitot, fr33domlover, bear, KartikPrabhu and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@Ross RT @kevinmarks @Joi @Ross @ev currently @Medium export is broken (breaks links) and there is no read API, only a write one: http://indiewebcamp.com/medium#Exporting_your_data (twitter.com/_/status/714284559865524224)
snarfed, nitot, wolftune, tantek, j12t, gRegorLove, squeakytoy2, sivoais and Tino joined the channel
#
Tino kylewm, thanks. I didn't look in the issues list for Bridgy, how foolish :)
#
Loqi Tino: KevinMarks left you a message 10 hours, 36 minutes ago: Known Convoy supports Google+ pages: https://withknown.com/convoy/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-27/line/1459115668960
#
Tino !tell KevinMarks I do not think Convoy does. I'm a convoy subscriber and it does not list Google+ in any way. That's besides the point though, I can syndicate to Google+ Pages now via the Buffer syndication plugin for known and Buffer setup to post to my Google+ page. It actually formats nicely. I'm now trying to get a backfeed working, which isn't possible at the moment. That sort of kills it for me. Then I rather manually paste a
#
Tino link on my own profile page there and have bridgy backfeed the comments.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
j12t, jonnybarnes and nitot joined the channel
#
@botminik Holy fuck, it looks like Twitter broke IndieAuth be putting a short url into the night is out of question? (twitter.com/_/status/714400893068816384)
Garbee, j12t, Pierre-O, mlncn, Lancey, Kopfstein, tantek, Guerillero|BNC, bashrc, snarfed, singpolyma, shiflett and ben_thatmustbeme joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /W3C (+299) "2013 Workshop on Social Standards" (view diff)
#
loqi.me created /Workshop_on_Social_Standards (+24) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
wolftune, gRegorLove, Lancey and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
gRegorLove Surprised instagram doesn't have an upload-from-desktop feature.
#
aaronpk i'm not
#
aaronpk easier to limit the amount of junk that gets uploaded by forcing you to upload from a phone
snarfed joined the channel
#
voxpelli noticed that Instagram had added a couple of new desktop/web features recently though
#
voxpelli but agree that they likely won't support photo uploading, but nowadays they are almost supporting everything else
#
tantek aaronpk: one workaround for that "limit amount of junk" problem is to make it a feature that you "unlock" by earning enough "points"
#
tantek or just from being around long enough
#
tantek (like years)
#
aaronpk that's true
#
aaronpk i suspect the other reason is they'd want to offer a somewhat consistent experience when uploading from a computer, but it'd be non-trivial to replicate the image editing features solely in a browser
#
kylewm my guess is that it's a very intentional choice to make the default behavior "post a quick shot of what's going on right now" rather than "take a reel of photos, painstakingly edit them after you vacation, and upload the whole batch"
#
tantek aaronpk: indeed. Flickr uploadr has been a constant support challenge - they switched desktop uploadr to Pro-only recently.
#
voxpelli editing wise one can do some pretty impressive things with Canvas today
#
kylewm imho, that's the big difference between instagram and flickr
#
tantek voxpelli: do you have a link to a good Canvas-based photo editor?
#
voxpelli tantek: looked at eg. http://evanw.github.io/webgl-filter/ right now
#
aaronpk tantek: i hadn't thought about that but you're probably right that the main reason for the switch was to reduce support costs from non-paying users
#
tantek kylewm: funny, even "Insta"gram feels too much like it interrupts the moment to me.
#
tantek it's not "instant" enough
#
tantek no one has come close to the eye-fi-like experience.
#
tantek I kind of want something like eye-fi + swarm
#
kylewm tantek: yeah totally agree
#
aaronpk i'm still so sad that eye-fi is disabling their flickr uploading
#
gRegorLove kylewm: Yeah, but how else am I supposed to share my new beautiful mug with IG? :)
#
tantek aaronpk: get eye-fi to support Micropub ;)
#
aaronpk i doubt they would, since they're disabling all non-cloud forms of uploading
#
aaronpk forcing you to use their subscription service
#
tantek perhaps ask them to do cloud->micropub
#
tantek that might actually be worth paying for
#
aaronpk hmm interesting
#
gregorlove.com edited /IRC_People (+22) "/* Nicknames */ new photo" (view diff)
#
tantek notices gRegorLove answers his own rhetorical :) question
#
KevinMarks on android, you can upload to google photos automatically, and instagram sees the google photos feed on th ephone
#
Loqi KevinMarks: Tino left you a message 8 hours, 33 minutes ago: I do not think Convoy does. I'm a convoy subscriber and it does not list Google+ in any way. That's besides the point though, I can syndicate to Google+ Pages now via the Buffer syndication plugin for known and Buffer setup to post to my Google+ page. It actually formats nicely. I'm now trying to get a backfeed working, which isn't possible at the moment. That sort of kills it for me. Then I rather manually paste a http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-28/line/1459154063845
#
tantek KevinMarks: what do you mean by "instagram sees the google photos feed"?!?
#
tantek AFAIK IG has no way to subscribe/follow non-IG sources of photos
#
aaronpk i assume it sees the photos on the phone, but the phone is syncing with google photos
#
tantek ah ok.
#
KevinMarks if I upload to google photos from the desktop, the OS presents that as the 'already taken photos' feed
#
KevinMarks there's probably an iCloud way to do that too
awolf joined the channel
#
tantek just noticing that there's no way to pin a post to the top of your profile/timeline on FB. somehow thought that was supported
#
gRegorLove Nice, I'll try taht
#
tantek maybe only for Groups and Events
#
tantek what is a pinned post?
#
Loqi pin or pinning is a feature that allows the author to choose a post to put at the top of their profile (or homepage) which is then called a pinned or sticky post https://indiewebcamp.com/pinned_post
#
KevinMarks I think its for pages, not for personal
#
kylewm we could ask a wedding photographer (how to upload from desktop), they all seemed to have figured it out
#
tantek.com edited /pin (+198) "/* Facebook */ Noticeably absent - your own timeline" (view diff)
#
tantek KevinMarks - no, the feature is for your own stream in general. E.g. WordPress has supported it for a while. Twitter supports it
#
tantek FB is just inconsistent
#
tantek also I can pin posts at the top of Events
#
tantek (in FB)
#
tantek more: https://indiewebcamp.com/pin#Facebook
#
tantek does anyone support pinned posts on their own site?
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KevinMarks Well, I suppose I could as I edit my homepage directly
#
tantek ah, you edit your home-page h-feed directly / by hand right? it's not auto-generated at all?
#
tantek a pinned post presents an interesting storage challenge
#
KevinMarks yes, because I don't pst often enough
#
tantek (assuming you want it to automatically show-up just at the top of your stream, rather than look like its own section above that)
#
KevinMarks this is a really bad way to defend against genius: https://github.com/vijithassar/genius-defender
mlncn joined the channel
#
tantek is noticing that person-tagging is slowing down his photo posting
#
kylewm yes, that is a cut off your nose to spite your face solution
#
KevinMarks I'll just run an O(n^2) process over my post that expands it by a factor of 10 in length (yes gzip will help) that can be reversed with a O(n) regex
#
gRegorLove How do I change my profile photo in Instagram Android? It's not under "Edit your profile"
#
KevinMarks click the photo in the top left next to 'edit your profile'
#
gRegorLove Nothing
#
gRegorLove Odd
#
KevinMarks hm https://twitter.com/igrigorik/status/714496759032971264
#
voxpelli tantek: need facial-recognition built into a nickname cache perhaps? ;)
#
@igrigorik sketch proposal for "Sandbox Policy": https://discourse.wicg.io/t/proposal-sandbox-policy/1414 - chime in with your thoughts and comments on WICG. [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/714496759032971264)
#
gRegorLove Tapping my photo doesn't do anything.
#
gRegorLove Maybe I've used it so infrequently they locked me out of that? Heh
#
gRegorLove I can do it on the web, not the app. Interesting.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
snarfed kylewm++ for adding indieauth to oauth-dropins btw! https://oauth-dropins.appspot.com/
#
Loqi kylewm has 312 karma
#
snarfed required for porting bridgy instagram to scraping, so that IG users can log in and prove they own an account without the API
#
kylewm oh thanks snarfed! It'd appreciate if a few folks tested it
#
kylewm :)
#
aaronpk nice!
#
voxpelli kylewm: worked: "Authenticated http://kodfabrik.se/ on IndieAuth." :)
#
Loqi Pelle Wessman
#
aaronpk worked for me!
#
kylewm thanks yall
#
KevinMarks oh boy dan http://observer.com/2016/03/genius-web-annotator-emma-dawson-alana-massey/
#
KevinMarks “Mr. Whaley told the Observer in a recent phone conversation that he finds the way humans reason to be fundamentally flawed, but that advances in how we organize information could help rectify that”
#
kylewm #patronizing
#
emceeaich headdesks
#
tantek wat
#
emceeaich stop writing things that you can't opt out of, why do people keep doing that?
#
emceeaich I wonder if that could be blocked through robots.txt
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KevinMarks no, they don't check it
#
tantek the centralized annotation service apologists really don't get that all technology has a cultural context whether they want it to or not do they?
#
tantek in particular I'm quite disappointed with Dan Whaley, I expected more from him
#
tantek this in particular is disappointingly tonedeaf: ""Because you're speaking publicly, people are going to talk about it, on twitter, on facebook, on reddit... and with annotation. There's nothing different about annotation except that it 'magically' brings the things people say over top of your content."
#
aaronpk "nothing different except"? heh
#
tantek wow, seriously?!? "nothing different" ... ***on top of your content*** WTF?!?!?
#
aaronpk on top of your content is like the definition of different
#
tantek if that's not bullying from a point of privilege I don't know what is
#
aaronpk wow
#
tantek literally **on top** of **your**, like a metaphorical bully sitting on you
#
tantek very very disappointed
#
KevinMarks also Genius seems to be socially engineered to attract know-it-all dicks
#
KevinMarks they call their karma 'IQ points'
#
tantek (nevermind non-ironic self-comparison to the cesspools of Twitter @-replies and Reddit comments)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek this: “Currently, there isn’t even a means for Genius users to report abusive annotations, and there is certainly no way for creators to do so,” Ms. Dawson wrote in an email to the Observer. “The lack of a report function is a huge red flag.”
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek hah! I had not seen https://xkcd.com/635/ before :)
Tino joined the channel
#
KevinMarks so many warbloggers thought they were Peter
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
petermolnar who, me? /me Loqi-ing
#
Loqi who, me?
#
Zegnat At the end of the day, I do kinda like annotations-for-comments as a style. Much like how Medium is using it. I also get why it would be cool to use it on any site you come across.
#
KevinMarks yes, I do too - that's why I'm excited about fragmentions as a tool for it
#
KevinMarks but there is a huge social consequences problem here
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek Zegnat - yes, it is cool, so see /marginalia for how to do it on your own site
#
tantek which is the right way to do it - own your annotations
#
tantek send webmentions to the original, and if they choose to display them (like KartikPrabhu does), then they'll show up
#
tantek all the permissions / controls are exactly in the right place with marginalia / webmentions / fragmentions design
#
KevinMarks though a plugin that displayed them while browsing, as hypothesis and genius do could be intersting
#
KevinMarks but it would need a model for whose annotations you see, which we don't have a good answer to yet
#
tantek no one has an answer to that
#
tantek so instead of starting with a solution looking for a problem, makes more sense to build what can/does actually work and evolve from there
#
tantek "need a model for ... which we don't have a good answer to yet" is a good sign of something to park / ignore
#
Zegnat You could also argue that it is a sign it needs more work, and the people at hypothesis and genius are working on it in their own way
#
tantek "you could also argue" = weasel wording
#
tantek "working on it in their own way" -> by defending tonedeaf UX and harrasment? makes no sense.
#
Zegnat alright, let me rephrase
#
tantek they started from a bad starting point, that's the problem
#
Zegnat "need a model for ... which we don't have a good answer to yet" is a good sign someone should look for the answer. They are trying out one possible answer over at Genius and Hypothesis
#
KevinMarks what I meant was that is an an example of the 'follow' problem, which we haven't hit at scale yet
#
tantek technology-centric vision, instead of human-centric
#
KevinMarks if tantek works out how to filter his bridgy-sent @t mentions…
#
Zegnat Well, I do not disagree with you there, tantek. I still think they are giving an interesting problem a fair shot, and would commend them for that
#
voxpelli I wonder what happened with Instapaper's fragmention support, can't seem to find it now
#
KevinMarks they made it a paid feature, which was a bit daft
#
voxpelli I do pay for it + use it on iOS to create the links posts on my site :) Can't see any fragmention-stuff in it though, however I could probably create my own linbks
#
voxpelli would be interesting to play around with webmentions, fragmentions and webaction to replicate inline comments
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
snarfed voxpelli: KartikPrabhu et al have worked on that
#
gRegorLove The "discussion" thread on Genius about that whole topic is also largely a trash fire.
#
voxpelli snarfed: hmm, yeah, he has some pretty good presentation there as well I see, thinking of whether I could add it as an option to my endpoint
#
KevinMarks ooh, that would mean I get them by default :D
#
voxpelli ;)
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] Did anyone share this URL to a video chat between Joi Ito and Ev Williams about Medium and the open web?
#
[shaners] http://joi.ito.com/weblog/2016/03/27/talking-about-m.html
#
Loqi Talking about Medium and the Open Web with Evan Williams »
#
Loqi [shaners]: tantek left you a message on 3/25 at 6:18pm: the microformat page on Wikipedia could certainly use a re-write but I'm not the person for it, being primary editor of all the new stuff and all. See: WP:NPOV http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-25/line/1458955116441
#
KevinMarks I did and responded
#
KartikPrabhu voxpelli: here is the post you might want to look at: https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia
#
Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] Marginalia
#
voxpelli KartikPrabhu: thanks!
#
KevinMarks also https://twitter.com/ManMadeMoon/status/714265110395490304
#
@ManMadeMoon Thing that appeals to me about OR is hope someone will make a Twitter Ap that feels like @GreatDismal's cyberspace. https://twitter.com/cnet/status/714245651429769216 (twitter.com/_/status/714265110395490304)
#
tantek OR = VR?
#
KevinMarks Oculus Rift
#
KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/714287641739419649
#
@kevinmarks @ManMadeMoon @GreatDismal @CNET @oculus the simstim part, the sites wrapped in ice, or the ability to make you flatline? (twitter.com/_/status/714287641739419649)
#
KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/714289817777930241
#
@kevinmarks @ManMadeMoon @GreatDismal now the ice you need to break through is the endless shitposts and joke explainers encrusting the good tweets (twitter.com/_/status/714289817777930241)
#
gRegorLove http://www.vijithassar.com/2641/how-to-block-genius-annotations
#
KevinMarks no, it's terrible
#
KevinMarks did you look at the code?
#
KevinMarks note he's not running it on his won site
#
voxpelli feels like the js-based genius blockers talked about the other day are a better alternative?
#
gRegorLove I hadn't yet; was just reading/sharing
#
tantek KevinMarks, gRegorLove perhaps that duplicate sharing is a good indication that you should add that to /News_Genius somewhere and document its problems
shiflett joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /News_Genius (+459) "/* Blocking */" (view diff)
mlncn joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /News_Genius (+387) "Articles / See also" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com edited /News_Genius (+165) "/* Articles */" (view diff)
#
tommorris site-deaths are always bad, but Bitcoin site-deaths are hilarious because everyone loses their money too.
#
tantek presumably the site-owner walks away with it though
#
KevinMarks no, most of the time it is stolen by other hackers
#
tommorris context: Coinkite - http://blog.coinkite.com/post/141836920461/time-to-be-your-own-bank
#
tommorris "time to be your own bank" is Bitcoin speak for "it's been an incredible journey!"
#
tommorris at least the transfer process is pretty easy.
#
tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+266) "adding Coinkite" (view diff)
#
@jgmac1106 @benwerd Seeing all the stuff @Joi has been posting to Medium about Open source and #indieweb maybe thats the place to go. (twitter.com/_/status/714537970381008896)
snarfed joined the channel
#
gRegorLove KevinMarks: Have you mentioned your JS to that developer / the journalist already? I was about to, unless you don't want me to.
#
gRegorLove KevinMarks: nvm, I see you did.
#
snarfed switched https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ to scrape instagram instead of using the (soon-to-be-dead) API
#
snarfed feel free to try it!
#
tantek snarfed: when someone switches from IG-only to also or first publishing on their own site, do you unsub from their IG via granary?
#
snarfed tries to parse the question
#
tantek (e.g. I'm wondering if it matters to anyone that my IG is private and I'm assuming granary doesn't read private IGs)
#
snarfed oh, me personally, my reading habits
#
tantek yes, you personally and wondering in general
#
snarfed eh i don't personally have a good answer. i definitely get dupes in my reader of people's posts across their own site and silos
#
tantek I'm wondering if we can come up with a way to indicate a "change of address" as it were
#
tantek like is there some way to indicate (e.g. plain text phrase in "bio" field) on a silo profile that the reader should get updates from another URL instead
#
snarfed (just for the logs, for getting IG and other silos in your feed reader, i recommend https://instagram-atom.appspot.com/ and friends. granary is mainly aimed at developers.)
#
tantek got it
#
snarfed tantek: yes! i've seen that kind of phrase in a few bios here and there
#
snarfed nothing standard though afaik
#
tantek I'm wondering if we could develop something that readers could implement to automatically switch subs
#
snarfed huh, maybe. i think so few people actually read silos in their readers though - ie i haven't marketed the *-atom apps very hard - that it's not worth figuring that out
#
tantek it's the perfect to figure it out because it affects (would surprise) so few people!
#
tantek s/perfect/perfect time
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: it's the perfect time to figure it out because it affects (would surprise) so few people!
#
snarfed maybe!
#
tantek like straw proposal: Posts here come from my site tantek.com
#
tantek (as I have on my FB profile)
#
tantek though I'd prefer a shorthand too
#
tantek maybe better to gather more examples first
#
snarfed a reader could do it automatically. fetch the site in their silo profile's website link, compare that last few silo posts, see if they have corresponding posts on the site
#
snarfed (with or without syndication links)
#
snarfed s/a reader/some code/
#
tantek snarfed, do you know of any existing methods for "classic" feeds to update their own URLs?
#
snarfed just 3xx redirects
#
snarfed rss/atom may have something else; i'm definitely no feed format expert
#
tantek KevinMarks might know
#
tantek "moved to: tantek.com" :)
#
KevinMarks deeds have a way to indicate their own url
#
tantek do any existing readers follow any of that to update their own subscription URLs?
#
tantek and what happens if its a format change?
#
tantek e.g. if inside tantek.com/updates.atom I say, use the new feed URL tantek.com ?
#
gRegorLove snarfed: I just hooked bridgy up to IG today. Didn't get an indieauth prompt, though. Is that for something different?
#
snarfed gRegorLove: we haven't shipped it yet. bridgy currently still uses the API
#
KevinMarks I think as snarfed says assuming 3xx redirects with 301 meaning remember this one and 302 meaning dont
#
gRegorLove Ah, ok
#
snarfed ongoing work tracked in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/603
#
gRegorLove Feedburner lets you 301 redirect your feed
#
tantek gRegorLove: but after that does it request the new or old URL? or does it keep both around and revert?
#
gRegorLove What's the "it" in that sentence? Feedburner?
#
tantek yes
#
gRegorLove I haven't checked my logs to see if it's requesting my feed URL. I presumed it wasn't.
#
gRegorLove I don't know what it would be doing with the feed content if it did
#
gRegorLove e.g. http://feeds.feedburner.com/gregorlove
#
emceeaich KevinMarks, you had some JS to disrupt Genius?
#
KevinMarks https://github.com/kevinmarks/savant
#
aaronpk KevinMarks++ for not using "Genius" in the name
#
Loqi KevinMarks has 203 karma
#
emceeaich Thank you, Kevin!
#
KevinMarks the 'idiot' is implied
#
KevinMarks “I can’t help somebody who thinks, or thinks he thinks, that editing a newspaper is censorship, or that throwing bricks is a demonstration while building tower blocks is social violence, or that unpalatable statement is provocation while disrupting the speaker is the exercise of free speech… Words don’t deserve that kind of malarkey. ”
#
KevinMarks hm, I need to write a post about this,
#
gRegorLove What's that quote from?
#
tantek yes
#
KevinMarks that's from Tom Stoppard's "The Real Thing"
#
KevinMarks "Genius did not respond to a request for comment, but we imagine they’ll annotate the story if they like." lol
#
tantek heh
#
gRegorLove That was a hard quote to parse, but I think I get it now.
#
KevinMarks I quoted more of it here: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2010/09/if-google-predicts-your-future-will-it.html
snarfed and tantek joined the channel
#
KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/soi-disant-genius-is-a-magnet-for-condescension
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] Soi-disant Genius is a magnet for condescension
#
tantek insightful: https://twitter.com/scottjenson/status/714256272367886336
#
@scottjenson Personal epiphany: Locking my creative output into opaque files and using the Finder to organize it is massively holding me back (twitter.com/_/status/714256272367886336)
#
tantek I'm wondering what kind of "opaque" files he's using? MSFT? PDF? because text files are hardly opaque in that Spotlight search indexes them transparently
#
tantek I sympathize sorta - even with non-opaque files (txt, html) I feel the inability to edit those in *trivially* publicly sync'd way is holding me back
#
tantek (trivially as in no, git / github is not an answer, it's admin tax)
#
KevinMarks github pages are surprisingly good at that
#
snarfed also a public dropbox account synched to a local directory
#
KevinMarks eg I can have an 'edit this page' link on http://reddoric.com/ that works instantly for me and other page owners, and makes a PR for otehrs
#
snarfed (existing editors work, sync is automatic, easily viewable publicy over http)
#
bear KevinMarks - small typo on your article - s/redirec/redirect/
#
snarfed and dropbox auto sync works on smartphones as well as computers
#
KevinMarks thanks bear
#
bear oh - and abilty
#
KevinMarks hm, that was a quick edit too
#
bear s/viewer and crawler/viewer and crawler./
#
bear I would also make the one case of "genius" Genius to match the other use pattern
#
bear ha - found the errant "." - it's at the very end of the text :)
#
gRegorLove KevinMarks: no href on the "harass Ella Dawson" link
#
bear indieweb folks are definitely power readers/editors :)
#
gRegorLove What is admin tax?
#
Loqi admin tax is all the time you spend maintaining your personal site, rather than actually using it (like to create posts) https://indiewebcamp.com/admin_tax
#
KevinMarks OK, I think I fixed all those
#
bear KevinMarks++ short article but very to the point
#
Loqi KevinMarks has 204 karma
#
KevinMarks has anyone looked at http://pubpub.media.mit.edu/
#
KevinMarks now I need to edit the medium POSSE copy
#
KevinMarks POSSE admin tx too
#
gRegorLove I'm curious how NYT is "blocking" genius (according to http://genius.com/8892341)
#
gRegorLove Example: http://genius.com/summary/www.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F03%2F29%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fbrussels-attacks.html?unwrappable=1
#
tantek snarfed++ for reminding me about dropbox
#
Loqi snarfed has 208 karma
#
tantek I think I have a strong resistance to adding such a solidified silo to a key part of my "creative output"
#
gRegorLove How about btsync?
#
tantek is the dropbox sync protocol documented anywhere?
#
tantek gRegorLove: well I have btsync setup to grab the IWC wiki, which has been handy a few times
#
KevinMarks so copyediting on Known in response to those comments was pretty fast
#
gRegorLove known++
#
Loqi known has 11 karma
#
gRegorLove o_O
#
tantek !karma idno
#
Loqi idno has 3 karma
#
tantek known++
#
Loqi known has 12 karma
#
snarfed the cloud-auto-sync model with automatic public URLs based on file path is a good one, independent of silo or protocol
#
snarfed esp if you wrap the auto-generated urls in ones on your own domain, so you can keep them working if/when you switch silos/protocols
#
KevinMarks iDisk got this exactly right
#
KevinMarks Google Drive cocks it up by having shitty URLs
#
KevinMarks and they're discontinuing it
#
tantek what is iDisk?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "iDisk" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Gw
#
tantek what is Google Drive?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Drive" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Gx
#
bear known++
#
Loqi known has 13 karma
#
tantek what is Dropbox?
#
Loqi Dropbox is a file hosting web service https://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox
#
KevinMarks this was a standard wasn't it?
#
tantek what was? AFP? NFS?
#
KevinMarks no, the web one
#
tantek WebDAV?
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+585) "/* Indie Wiki */ note additional related itches, and as simple as dropbox sync" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks yes, WebDAV - iDisk you could mount and change on windows with it
#
tantek what is WebDAV?
#
Loqi WebDAV is an HTTP-based protocol used to create and edit files on a server that has some IndieWeb adoption https://indiewebcamp.com/WebDAV
#
tantek surprised if Google Drive doesn't support WebDAV?
#
KevinMarks iDisk was Apple's cloud disk silo, that also provided web hosting and [[WebDAV]] support. It was shut down for random company reasons, causing many [[site-deaths]]
#
loqi.me created /iDisk (+190) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-28/line/1459202311561 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
gRegorLove What is Google Docs?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Docs" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Gy
#
tantek KevinMarks: I wonder why there's no obvious "Connect to WebDAV" in the Finder. Or is there if you use a magic webdav: URL?
#
KevinMarks I think it's under Connect to Server
#
tantek there's an AFP example there but no idea how to connect to webdav:
#
KevinMarks connect to server, then the web address
#
KevinMarks not that I have a webdav server any more
#
KevinMarks box.com does webdav apparently
#
tantek I guess that's still a step back from the Dropbox UX which lets you edit things locally in your directory and automatically connects / syncs
#
tantek whereas WebDAV is only a direct-to-server connection. No network, no WebDAV document access.
snarfed joined the channel
#
bear dropbox wrote about some of their sync tech -- https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2015/10/inside-lan-sync/
#
KevinMarks iDIsk mac.com was great
#
KevinMarks initially it was a network drive, then it became a local cache
snarfed joined the channel
#
bear https://support.apple.com/kb/ph18514 < webdav access from finder
#
emceeaich the photo gallery on iDisk that integrated with iPhoto used a bunch of custom properties on your iDisk so that iPhoto. Once you connected it to your iDisk, iPhoto would publish photos (and strips of each photo in a gallery for previews) to your iDisk. The web app was just javascript.
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
tantek we've pretty much capped the creation/use of new rel-values which I feel like we should document somehow so we don't put more energy into it unintentionally
#
tantek going to attempt a stub
#
tantek.com created /rel-values (+973) "stub with existing indieweb rel values in use" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /rel-values (+219) "rel-in-reply-to, subheads for levels" (view diff)
asheesh joined the channel
#
snarfed tantek: rel-feed is also actively in use, for discovering h-feeds on other pages
#
snarfed also rel-shortlink, which i don't feel quite as strongly about
#
tantek do we use shortlink anywhere?
#
tantek does anyone consume it?
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
snarfed bridgy publish consumes it
#
snarfed it uses it as the backlink if available
#
snarfed also rel-webmention is active i think
#
tantek (duh) ;)
#
tantek and micropub
#
aaronpk wow this seems like a good reason not to use IFTTT: "IFTTT shall own all right, title, and interest (and all related moral rights and intellectual property rights) in and to the Developer Tool, Service, and Content."
#
aaronpk Content?!
#
aaronpk from https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/03/my_heroic_and_lazy_stand_against_ifttt/
#
tantek WOW
#
tantek that's worthy of adding to /IFTTT#Criticism
#
snarfed "moral rights" O_o
#
aaronpk it gets worse
#
aaronpk also i'm not sure how IFTTT can claim to own the content that flows through it given that the USERS aren't even agreeing to this, this is the TOS for developers of IFTTT channels
#
tantek that's nuts
#
aaronpk sounds like someone got a pile of money and hired lawyers who have no grasp in reality
#
tantek rather than asking the client for the socio-technical context, sounds like the lawyers were lazy / conservative and wrote up terms assuming "own all the things"
#
aaronparecki.com edited /IFTTT (+332) "pinboard" (view diff)
#
tantek what's worse is that those that hired the lawyers didn't bother to read the TOS with developer/user mindset and catch such things
#
tantek.com edited /rel-values (+449) "feed, micropub, webmention, icon" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /rel-values (+104) "authorization_endpoint, token_endpoint" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /rel-values (+9) "/* In use */ web-sign-in" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /social-standards (+13) "update to u-in-reply-to instead of rel-in-reply-to, still a stub, see also building blocks" (view diff)
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /rel-values (+28) "/* External dependency */ more icon" (view diff)
#
snarfed tantek: i can add shortlink w/bridgy citation if you want
#
tantek wait I'm confused - how does it use it as a backlink? oh, at the POSSE copy?!?
#
tantek *really*?!? **interesting!**
#
tantek does anyone use that? now I'm considering it...
#
tantek (If I'm understanding correctly)
#
aaronpk oh so if my original post contains rel=shortlink, then bridgy will also look for the short link in the POSSE copy?
#
snarfed no, tantek's right. this is for publish, it uses it as the published backlink
#
snarfed (OPD already handles backlinks since it follows redirects)
#
snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/publish.py#L287
#
tantek.com edited /rel-values (+107) "/* In use */ shortlink" (view diff)
#
aaronpk oh for publish
#
aaronpk ahh
#
tantek snarfed: is this description correct? https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-values#In_use
#
snarfed people definitely use it. we added it because people asked for it :P
#
tantek oh hey this still works: https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-values##shortlink :)
#
snarfed tantek: yes
#
snarfed.org edited /rel-values (+63) "bridgy rel-feed" (view diff)
#
tantek this is turning into a more useful summary than I intended/expected
#
tantek all because I wanted a logical place tomove some of the old brainstorming on /responses
#
tantek evacuating the /responses page before moving /interactions to it and renaming
#
KevinMarks hm, can the wiki update to not requiring 2 hashes for a fragmention?
#
tantek KevinMarks: how does the wiki implement it? and have such implementations been fixed?
#
tantek (js etc.)
#
snarfed wow, the rel-shortlink bridgy publish discussion was involved: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/173
#
tantek still likes the aesthetic of ##
#
tantek the hint that something new and interesting is happening
#
tantek realizes that's not a good excuse and that the more minimal #-only design is better from a simplicity perspective
#
aaronpk i think i copied someone's js script to the wiki at some point
#
tantek.com edited /interactions (+9) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ responses" (view diff)