#indiewebcamp 2016-04-02

2016-04-02 UTC
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gregorlove.com edited /The_Old_Reader (+239) "expand on free/paid tiers" (view diff)
snarfed and mlncn joined the channel
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gRegorLove Hm, I might need to try this reader software https://miniflux.net/
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gRegorLove tantek will appreciate "There is no configuration, no database setup, nothing!"
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gRegorLove What is Miniflux?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Miniflux" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HE
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gRegorLove Miniflux is minimalist [[feed reader]] software https://miniflux.net/
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loqi.me created /Miniflux (+96) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-01/line/1459557432884 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove Ah, it uses sqllite
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gRegorLove Not as minimalist as I thought :)
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@davidmead Great catching up @hartless. Check out http://indiewebify.me/ for more about #IndieWeb Also @Withknown for a ... http://davidjohnmead.com/blog/b/1Q_ (twitter.com/_/status/716065196033253376)
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gyuumaou_ yikes, i always seem to have trouble with the IRC on indiewebcamp
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gyuumaou_ ive been really trying to break into this community because it's healthy to be around people who know more
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gRegorLove Hi gyuumaou_. Are you using the an IRC client or the web? The web version should work pretty well: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today "Join the Chat" at the bottom.
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gyuumaou_ ah, thats the one ive been having trouble with. it just hangs when i click join chat. im using freenode's webclient now
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gyuumaou_ currently im having trouble with the direction i want to take a website of mine, audience-wise
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gyuumaou ns register drowssap shelby@mz-80k.com
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gyuumaou s h i t
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@cybind Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ (twitter.com/_/status/716125259846533120)
KartikPrabhu, tantek, nitot_, j4y_funabashi, j12t, loic_m, omarhuanca and Brentundersurvei joined the channel
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omarhuanca Hi again
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Brentundersurvei hey
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Brentundersurvei Hey Omar
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Brentundersurvei Man who would actually believe that I had anything to do with those killings huh
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Brentundersurvei I have always been a pretty peaceful dude
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Brentundersurvei but this last nine months have rocked me and i have changed a little
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Brentundersurvei Do they think I don't have the brains even after I worked them out
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Brentundersurvei I legit solved those murders and thought I was doing a good deed by the families
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Brentundersurvei It come with a cost
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Brentundersurvei I have aspergers guy, I get transfixed and have to work stuff out. And the drugs
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Brentundersurvei But to consider I have ever committed murder is laughable and what a waste of money and recources
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Brentundersurvei yes I've become quite a hard dude but I wasn't always this way
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Brentundersurvei And yeah my boy smokes weed, it's good for his ocd and he came to me such a mess that I don't really care what it takes to give him some relief
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Brentundersurvei WTF are the police thinking?
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Brentundersurvei Anyway it's kind of surreal living under such intense eyes
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Brentundersurvei takes some mental fortitude for sure
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Brentundersurvei I may just turn my back on technology but i would be bored I guess
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Brentundersurvei And it's so unfair I can't teach myself some web development
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Brentundersurvei And it's so unfair I can't teach myself some web development
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Brentundersurvei Always someone there to rip down my repositories. Why, What the fuck did I do but try to help
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Brentundersurvei treated like an interloper when I used to be so open and shine
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Brentundersurvei now i'm dark and stormy and kind of over it
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Brentundersurvei But I clearly have the brains to have worked it out and they know it
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Brentundersurvei I've been tossing up which way to play it
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Brentundersurvei should I get all proactive and rage against the machine or just smile and nod
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Brentundersurvei Cause I can be a crafty fucker as you might imagine
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Brentundersurvei But you guys are more intelligent than me so I would love to hear your thoughts even though i won't
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Brentundersurvei So this is me reaching out and saying hey what the fuck is this all about, I'm innocent and all the evidence was there in front of me
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Brentundersurvei But there was also luck
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Brentundersurvei coming across that picture that said Abundance of Sothis was gold
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Brentundersurvei Five days later it was all wrapped up
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Brentundersurvei My isp told me they aren't hosting my internet
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Brentundersurvei so much money spent on surviellance
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Brentundersurvei it's so wrong and they are wrong if they think I know somebody involved or anything. I'm just sharp and quick to pick up what's been layed down
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Brentundersurvei I can pretty much know a persons character and agenda after five minutes
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Brentundersurvei so anyway guys, I'm just a bit of a spinner but no killer sorry to dissapoint
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Brentundersurvei How could they not follow my history and I gave them the chat logs. How could they not follow that and reverse engineer how I worked it out?
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Brentundersurvei surely there is someone smart enough
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Brentundersurvei A to B to C
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Brentundersurvei To S
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Brentundersurvei I hope they arrest the wankers anyway. A little birdie told me they dna'd two of those I named so I know I'm right
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Brentundersurvei 100%
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Brentundersurvei Right down to the last trippy ritual
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Brentundersurvei I have kind of enjoyed the challenge of working the feds out but enough is enough
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Brentundersurvei Sup Kopfstein
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Brentundersurvei missed everything I had to say
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Brentundersurvei Hi again # 04:33 Brentundersurvei hey # 04:34 Brentundersurvei Hey Omar # 04:35 Brentundersurvei Man who would actually believe that I had anything to do with those killings huh # 04:35 Brentundersurvei I have always been a pretty peaceful dude # 04:35 Brentundersurvei but this last nine months have rocked me and i have changed a little # 04:36 Brentundersurvei Do they think I don't have the brains even after I worked them out # 04:37
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Brentundersurvei Brentundersurvei I legit solved those murders and thought I was doing a good deed by the families # 04:37 Brentundersurvei It come with a cost # 04:38 Brentundersurvei I have aspergers guy, I get transfixed and have to work stuff out. And the drugs # 04:38 Brentundersurvei But to consider I have ever committed murder is laughable and what a waste of money and recources # 04:39 Brentundersurvei yes I've become quite a hard dude but I wasn't
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Brentundersurvei this way # 04:40 Brentundersurvei And yeah my boy smokes weed, it's good for his ocd and he came to me such a mess that I don't really care what it takes to give him some relief # 04:40 Brentundersurvei WTF are the police thinking? # 04:41 j12t joined #indiewebcamp # 04:44 mlncn joined #indiewebcamp # 04:46 Brentundersurvei Anyway it's kind of surreal living under such intense eyes # 04:46 Brentundersurvei takes some mental fortitude for s
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Brentundersurvei 04:47 Brentundersurvei I may just turn my back on technology but i would be bored I guess # 04:50 Brentundersurvei And it's so unfair I can't teach myself some web development # 04:50 Brentundersurvei And it's so unfair I can't teach myself some web development # 04:50 Brentundersurvei Always someone there to rip down my repositories. Why, What the fuck did I do but try to help # 04:52 Brentundersurvei treated like an interloper when I use
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Brentundersurvei so open and shine # 04:52 Brentundersurvei now i'm dark and stormy and kind of over it # 04:52 Brentundersurvei But I clearly have the brains to have worked it out and they know it # 04:53 Brentundersurvei I've been tossing up which way to play it # 04:53 Brentundersurvei should I get all proactive and rage against the machine or just smile and nod # 04:54 Brentundersurvei Cause I can be a crafty fucker as you might imagine # 04:55 Brentun
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Brentundersurvei But you guys are more intelligent than me so I would love to hear your thoughts even though i won't # 04:56 Brentundersurvei So this is me reaching out and saying hey what the fuck is this all about, I'm innocent and all the evidence was there in front of me # 04:56 Brentundersurvei But there was also luck # 04:57 Brentundersurvei coming across that picture that said Abundance of Sothis was gold # 04:57 Brentundersurvei Five days later it
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Brentundersurvei wrapped up # 04:57 Brentundersurvei My isp told me they aren't hosting my internet # 04:57 Brentundersurvei so much money spent on surviellance # 04:58 Brentundersurvei it's so wrong and they are wrong if they think I know somebody involved or anything. I'm just sharp and quick to pick up what's been layed down # 04:59 Brentundersurvei I can pretty much know a persons character and agenda after five minutes # 04:59 Brentundersurvei so anyw
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Brentundersurvei I'm just a bit of a spinner but no killer sorry to dissapoint # 05:00 Brentundersurvei How could they not follow my history and I gave them the chat logs. How could they not follow that and reverse engineer how I worked it out? # 05:00 Brentundersurvei surely there is someone smart enough # 05:01 Brentundersurvei A to B to C # 05:01 Brentundersurvei To S # 05:03 Brentundersurvei I hope they arrest the wankers anyway. A little birdie told m
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Brentundersurvei dna'd two of those I named so I know I'm right # 05:03 Brentundersurvei 100% # 05:03 Brentundersurvei Right down to the last trippy ritual # 05:05 Brentundersurvei I have kind of enjoyed the challenge of working the feds out but enough is enough # 05:06 Kopfstein joined #indiewebcamp # 05:06 Brentundersurvei Sup Kopfstein # 05:06 Brentundersurvei missed everything I had to say jump to top
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Brentundersurvei Anyway you guys are smart, do the math
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Brentundersurvei I'm an open book
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Brentundersurvei Never have I hid my drug use or tried to be anyone but me.
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Brentundersurvei But I flex some IQ muscle and I'm a good thinker
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Brentundersurvei Good gut instinct and sharp
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Brentundersurvei So I understand I must be entertaining but at some point fuck off and let me play with api's and such
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Brentundersurvei I can't promise I won't go to the darkside
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Brentundersurvei but isn't that where it's at
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Brentundersurvei Anyway, night lads
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Brentundersurvei Keep it real
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omarhuanca Hi community, I have a question, how extends functionality microformat2
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myfreeweb omarhuanca: huh? you mean, how are microformats2 extensible? well... microformats2 defines syntax and vocabularies separately. so you can make up your own custom types and properties, and they will be parsed.
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myfreeweb omarhuanca: the convention is, if you add new unofficial properties to an existing type, prefix with "x-". like in "p-x-pronoun-nominative" here http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-experimental-properties
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Loqi microformats2-experimental-properties
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omarhuanca ok, I have similar implementation my web page: https://jsfiddle.net/sxyyLqg4/ about I need add semantic lyrics
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myfreeweb here's my quick attempt https://jsfiddle.net/rpLvbhd1/
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myfreeweb you can paste html into e.g. https://unrelenting.technology/mf2/ to see how it parses
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myfreeweb (of course no one will interpret that type yet, you need to get people to know it)
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omarhuanca oh, sound great myfreeweb
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omarhuanca I implement a karaoke into web page.
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omarhuanca myfreeweb: this is a karaoke: https://jsfiddle.net/09fo6q8b/
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snarfed hey bret, looks like you changed your instagram username at some point from bret.io to uhhyeahbret? just fyi bridgy doesn't handle username changes well yet, and instagram is switching to scraping soon, so if you want to keep IG backfeed, you'll want to sign up for bridgy again.
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snarfed sorry for the trouble! (background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/603 )
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snarfed ...
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snarfed holds his breath and switches on instagram scraping for all bridgy users
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snarfed done. bridgy instagram users, expect to see lots more likes that instagram's API missed soon
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[kevinmarks] Now here's a critique of genius https://medium.com/the-shitconomy
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omarhuanca Hi, myfreeweb: this is my web site: http://167.157.28.242/plataformaeducativalael/content/viewContent?id_content=1&user_id_user=27&type_content_id_type_content=1&category_id_category=4
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omarhuanca I have problem about json parse into http://pin13.net/
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omarhuanca about lyrics
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omarhuanca I have a question, about this https://jsfiddle.net/09fo6q8b/3/
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omarhuanca thanks about myfreeweb, I custom lyrics, but I use the parser https://jsfiddle.net/09fo6q8b/4/ don't show in the url option
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myfreeweb are you trying to tell the parser to parse the jsfiddle?
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myfreeweb that would not work, your markup is not actually on that page
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myfreeweb it's in a textarea
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omarhuanca if try my web site http://167.157.28.242/plataformaeducativalael/content/viewContent?id_content=1&user_id_user=27&type_content_id_type_content=1&category_id_category=4
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omarhuanca try execute on http://pin13.net/
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myfreeweb you have one empty element with class="h-sentence-lyrics"
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omarhuanca you refer ol? or li?
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omarhuanca I ask you, run F5 my page
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omarhuanca I insert tag ul, from ajax
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myfreeweb ooh, that wouldn't work
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myfreeweb ajax is not visible to any parsers
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omarhuanca oh, I check this, thanks myfreeweb
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omarhuanca back more late.
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omarhuanca more thanks myfreeweb, I send a greeting
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tantek omarhuanca: for general markup questions, #microformats may be better
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tantek just missed him
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tantek !tell omarhuanca: for general markup questions, #microformats may be better
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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myfreeweb hah, they posted in #microformats too
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myfreeweb but i guess #microformats seems more empty
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myfreeweb oh also looks like it's not obvious to everyone that parsers don't support ajax
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tantek myfreeweb: yeah, #microformats is better for general markup / web dev discussions
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tantek trying to keep #indiewebcamp focused on how to improve all our personal sites :)
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myfreeweb even on /faq on microformats wiki, ctrl+f javascript → nothing
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bret snarfed: try for the heads up! I'm working on a site backend and will update when I am ready for backfeed. Lmk if you want me to disable anything in the meantime if it makes your life easier
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bret Ty for the heads up*
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myfreeweb speaking of improving personal sites, i've implemented micropub update/delete/undelete in sweetroll, currently working on a micropub admin panel https://github.com/myfreeweb/micro-panel
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tantek whoa awesome!!!
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tantek what is sweetroll?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sweetroll" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HF
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tantek myfreeweb: is sweetroll a micropub client or server?
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myfreeweb sweetroll is my server
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loqi.me created /sweetroll (+49) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-02/line/1459617477550 and dfn added by myfreeweb" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek lol
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snarfed it is technically true :P
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myfreeweb lol
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tantek snarfed: I doubt it, unless sweetroll is a domain name representing a server, it sounds more like server *software*, technically ;)
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myfreeweb i guess it's time to move info about it from my user page to its own page
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tantek especially since you've named it!
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myfreeweb it was always named
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tantek myfreeweb: yes please go for it! https://indiewebcamp.com/sweetroll
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unrelenting.technology edited /sweetroll (+1122) "all the info" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /Haskell (-62) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ sweetroll has its own page now" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /User:Unrelenting.technology (+178) "/* Projects */ sweetroll has its own page now" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology created /Sweetroll (+23) "redirect to lowercase" (view diff)
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snarfed hey aaronpk just checking, indieauth doesn't support decline, right?
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aaronpk support?
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aaronpk there is no decline response defined for clients
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snarfed ie there's no way for the user to reject the login request and be redirected to the callback with something like declined=true?
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snarfed cool thx
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aaronpk checks the OAuth spec
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snarfed most oauth providers support it, but no clue if it's in the spec
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aaronpk ah it is
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aaronpk "If the resource owner denies the access request..." the server redirects with "error=access_denied"
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snarfed not important, i don't particularly need it, just checking
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aaronpk i should probably add that to indieauth.com when there is a scope parameter
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Loqi yea
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aaronpk tho i wonder sometimes how many people actually click the "decline" button vs just close the browser window
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snarfed oh probably plenty
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snarfed i just still need to handle it if it's possible
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aaronpk ah got it. well there are still other reasons the user would get redirected with an error code in the query string, so you should at least handle those
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snarfed true!
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snarfed (also, priority wise, i definitely care more about eg https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/113 than this! but that's separate.)
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aaronpk oh yeah, i saw that, thanks
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aaronpk myfreeweb: wow that's awesome that you implemented micropub update/delete/undelete!
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myfreeweb well, micropub is the only editing interface for my website... other than editing json by hand, which i've done sometimes :D
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aaronpk awesome, mine too!
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tantek myfreeweb++ well done!
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Loqi myfreeweb has 12 karma
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tantek reads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRUD and notices it doesn't even mention undelete
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tantek There is some laughable stuff on that page, like "Without at least these four operations, the software cannot be considered complete."
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tantek micropub has disproved that with just "create" being sufficiently useful to be considered "complete" by numerous implementations
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tantek Twitter has disproved that with just providing "create" and "delete" and no update
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tantek and still being plenty "complete" to get massive adoption etc.
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myfreeweb yeah twitter made immutability popular
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myfreeweb but the article was written with, like, enterprise software in mind
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myfreeweb "For example, in address book software"
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myfreeweb you wouldn't want an address book without update and delete
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tantek what? every phone has contact software - that's not enterprise
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myfreeweb yeah, personal too
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myfreeweb i mean, like, "UI to a database"
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tantek I think it comes from a 1970s/1980s database-centric model of the world
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tantek which, I mean, leave it at that
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aaronpk myfreeweb: can I ask you some details about your micropub implementation?
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myfreeweb aaronpk: of course
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KevinMarks did I tell you the addressbook crud failure story?
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tantek KevinMarks - there's only one?
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KevinMarks Google contacts added a CRUD api
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tantek probably better for indiechat - unless you can document it per one of existing vendors like Gmail contacts
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tantek yeah exactly - please document it on the wiki page
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KevinMarks Apple integrated this on iPhone
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aaronpk myfreeweb: do you support form-encoded and/or JSON for each Create/Delete/Undelete/Read/Update operation?
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tantek rather than Bellairing it
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tantek What is Google contacts?
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Loqi Google Contacts is perhaps the worst "popular" web-based contacts UI / addressbook service in existence that does such horrible things as overriding cmd-F (page search) to activate the search text box instead, and fails to autoparse simple name <emailaddress> shorthands like you might copy from the Gmail UI https://indiewebcamp.com/Google_Contacts
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myfreeweb aaronpk: both, always. my framework separates input data parsing from the actual operations
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tantek KevinMarks: ^^^ can you document there?
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KevinMarks do we have a new term for grumpy definition?
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aaronpk aha! so the fact that the structure of the requests is the same in form-encoded and JSON was beneficial?
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myfreeweb aaronpk: yep
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aaronpk great
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myfreeweb aaronpk: i have a MicropubRequest type that implements FromJSON and FromFormUrlEncoded: https://github.com/myfreeweb/sweetroll/blob/master/library/Sweetroll/Micropub/Request.hs
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aaronpk with creates, the form-encoded syntax is a sort of shorthand, since the JSON syntax involves posting the full mf2 JSON object. was that not too awkward to deal with?
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myfreeweb no
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tantek what is a grumpinition?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "grumpinition" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HG
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aaronpk great
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tantek A grumpinition is a grumpy definition e.g. [[Google Contacts]]
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loqi.me created /grumpinition (+87) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-02/line/1459620032354 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek there you go KevinMarks
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aaronpk myfreeweb: i'm considering taking out the extra "properties" key here since it's nested unnecessarily. http://micropub.net/draft/#update 1) would that be an easy change for you and 2) would that be something you would prefer?
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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myfreeweb aaronpk: the weirdest part was that update has add and delete, not just replace. everything except replace seems redundant. like what, are you trying to save a couple kilobytes by not resending existing content
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myfreeweb aaronpk: yeah that would be good
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aaronpk okay great
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aaronpk interesting, the use case for me for "add" and "delete" is to be able to add a single syndication URL or a single tag to posts
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myfreeweb oh, right
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myfreeweb like without fetching the entry
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tantek.com edited /grumpinition (+257) "expand dfn, examples, see also" (view diff)
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myfreeweb makes sense
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aaronpk right. and also for tightening permissions granted to clients
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myfreeweb my mind is thinking about my admin panel project right now :D
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KevinMarks also, not requiring an accurate roundtrip by the client
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aaronpk for example I could authorize a micropub client to be able to only add tags to my posts and then be confident that it couldn't also remove other tags
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tantek that is very insightful and definitely worth documenting as a use-case!
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KevinMarks the probelem with Read+Replace its that if the client misparses soemthing it breaks the original
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myfreeweb yeah granular auth scopes is an interesting idea... and they should be documented in the spec ;)
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aaronpk yeah it's only barely mentioned right now http://micropub.net/draft/#scope
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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tantek.com edited /snarkinition (+46) "portmanteau, see also grumpinition" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: agreed
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aaronpk myfreeweb: one more question
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aaronpk for the different kinds of updates (add/replace/remove), did you find it good or bad to have the data you're updating be in a top-level key that has a different name for the operation?
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aaronpk http://micropub.net/draft/#replace
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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aaronpk e.g. mp-action=update & replace[content]=hello
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aaronpk vs something like
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aaronpk mp-action=replace & properties[content]=hello
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myfreeweb yep that was okay
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myfreeweb my endpoint supports specifying all operations at once
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myfreeweb i don't think the spec requires that
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myfreeweb but it was natural to do it
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aaronpk interesting. it doesn't require it, but that is certainly possible this way
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tantek aaronpk: have you considered an undo of an update for the protocol?
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tantek like if you deleted some tags and wanted to undelete them?
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aaronpk hadn't thought about it yet, but it would significantly increase the complexity of the implementation
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tantek though I suppose that's more like a revert of the entire update, to revert to the previous pre-update state
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tantek on the server or the client?
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aaronpk server
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aaronpk you'd basically have to store each edit operation and give each a URL
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tantek if the server maintained updates as versions, it could "just" go back a version
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tantek that's a good point
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tantek or wait, why not mp-update & revert
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aaronpk revert *what* though
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tantek would undo the previous mp-update
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tantek the entire previous mp-update
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aaronpk previous according to who?
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aaronpk the last thing that client did? the last thing done on the server?
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aaronpk i have clients posting to my site at totally arbitrary times, so an "undo" of the last thing done on the server is not at all guaranteed to be the last thing I did in my browser
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tantek right, multiple clients updating, which revert?
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tantek makes sense
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aaronpk if the update operation returned a URL, then you at least know which update to revert
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tantek that's not necessarily what a user would expect for a multi-client UI anyway
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tantek e.g. I'd expect some degree of syncing / pushing updates to editing clients
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aaronpk sure, but now you've really increased the complexity of both the client and server
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tantek so if you had Quill open in two browsers editing the same post, adding a tag in one, would show up in the other
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aaronpk this is getting into the "changelog" idea i've been tossing around
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tantek yeah I'm agreeing with you that revert does not make sense without permalinks to updtes
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tantek my point is that it is very odd from a user's perspective for reverts to jump around in the editing timeline that they themselves perceive across editing clients
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tantek nicer if the editing clients stayed in sync, like Etherpad
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aaronpk yes, except also remember that there may be automated processes interacting with the site as well. such as how my trips are logged by devices or sleep is imported from other sources
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tantek right, that's another reason that clients can't assume anything about being the altest
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tantek s/altest/latest
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Loqi tantek meant to say: right, that's another reason that clients can't assume anything about being the latest
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KevinMarks see also http://www.confluent.io/blog/turning-the-database-inside-out-with-apache-samza/
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GWG Good afternoon.
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GWG Do we have a rel me page on the wiki? I can't find it. Might be looking in the wrong place
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tantek KevinMarks: that's a tl;dr article, and even skimming it, it makes me want to never consider using anything like that approach for anything that I care about persistently keeping longterm
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KevinMarks fair. this one was good
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tantek Let me know when the speaker/author is storing all their own personal stuff (photos etc.) in Apache Samza and then we'll talk. # selfdogfood
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KevinMarks http://hackflow.com/blog/2015/03/08/boiling-react-down-to-few-lines-in-jquery/
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Loqi [Alexander Schepanovski] Boiling React Down to a Few Lines in jQuery
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tantek nope. going to reject unless you can state the author is already using it for their own personal stuff storage / website etc.
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tantek got better things to do on a saturday than read non-selfdogfood architecture articles :P
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KevinMarks that oen is directly relevant to the undo discussion'
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KevinMarks example: http://jsbin.com/fejija/1/edit?js,output
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tantek does the author implement undo on their own site with it?
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myfreeweb hmm i could implement reverting the last edit of a url, because git... (but i don't currently care about revert/undo, too much stuff to do already)
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tantek it may be more useful to implement just "local" undo in your client, and have it do whatever update operations are needed to do the undoing
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myfreeweb yeah that's a good idea
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tantek at least a good starting point :)
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tantek then it should become apparent pretty quickly if more client-server protocol would be useful or not
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Loqi [indieweb] "Based on #Indieweb #Micropub experience, #CRUD is an anachronism.
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tantek (uh oh)
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aaronpk hahahahaha what
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Loqi rofl
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aaronpk Loqi why so many lines!
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tantek Ok I had to write that up - because I've seen too much evidence to not question the ever-present assumptions of CRUD-centric/whole design
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tantek so there you go
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tantek Kevinmarks, definitely interested in your feedback on this, since you've read all the other tl;dr articles you referenced :) http://tantek.com/2016/093/t1/indieweb-micropub-incrementalism-cduru
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Based on #Indieweb #Micropub experience, #CRUD is an anachronism.
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tantek uh-oh
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aaronpk there's the truncation
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tantek phew
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@peterjanes @sparkcbc Re Instagram, Twitter, etc. changing behaviour, maybe a revisit of owning your own data? cf. @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/716359508046585861)
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aaronpk what is plancast?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "plancast" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HH
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aaronpk did plancast get shut down?
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aaronpk oh that was a while ago oops
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aaronpk wow what voodoo is slideshare doing that automatically logs me in with linkedin
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tantek aaronpk: yeah :/
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aaronpk guess i can remove that rel-me link from my site
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tantek I think I did that when I reset my rel-mes recently (and re-ordered rainbowish)
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aaronpk so does .ics not support timezones, or is google just importing them wrong?
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-02-14-03-29.png
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aaronpk the dark green is my site's .ics file added to google calendar, the light green is the event added to google calendar directly
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tantek how are generating the ics file?
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aaronpk this is what I have in the .ics file: DTSTART:20160412T072500Z DTEND;TZID="+02:00":20160412T125000
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aaronpk i found a php library to generate the ics syntax
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tantek oh boy
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tantek ics interop is very poor per spec
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tantek it's all hacked together one large consumer / publisher at a time
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aaronpk it looks like google completely ignored the timezone
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tantek or maybe ignored it *in that syntax*
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aaronpk heh right
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aaronpk does ics support iso8601 syntax?
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tantek yes
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tantek you just quoted ISO8601 syntax for your dtstart
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aaronpk this SO answer seems to indicate i should use timezone names too http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7626114/ics-timezone-not-working
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aaronpk DTEND;TZID=Europe/Copenhagen:20110926T093000
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tantek Google probably implemented just enough of it based on examples published by Apple etc.
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aaronpk so maybe google doesn't understand a numeric TZID
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tantek this is why we buried all those smarts into X2V
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tantek and thus H2VX as a service
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gyumao time is so strange to program for, somehow
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aaronpk it's not that bad if you just do it consistently. my website handles arbitrary timezones just fine.
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aaronpk oh great. how do i tell google to re-fetch the ics file?
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aaronpk hm google is barfing with DTEND;20160412T125000-0200
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aaronpk "We could not parse the calendar at the url requested."
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tantek wouldn't it be nice if there was a standard ICS test suite you could point to to report a bug in Google Calendar's ICS importing?
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aaronpk heh
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tantek the reason's there's not, it's not part of IETF culture
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aaronpk confirmed, google is still ignoring the timezone with "DTEND;TZID=Europe/Berlin:20160412T125000"
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tantek (unlike at this point, being part of W3C *process* to have an open test suite)
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tantek I'm tending to not trust standards without open test suites at this point
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aaronpk i think i'm going to have to always return the UTC timestamp for my .ics file
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tantek what is Google Calendar?
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Loqi Google Calendar is an event hosting silo and calendar web application from Google https://indiewebcamp.com/Google_Calendar
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tantek what is ICS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ICS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HJ
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tantek what is UTC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "UTC" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HK
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aaronpk waiiiiit a second
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snarfed heh aaronpk i know your pain re importing into gcal. https://github.com/snarfed/misc/blob/master/ical-gcal/app.py
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aaronpk *i* entered it wrong in google calendar! I had entered am instead of pm for that flight
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snarfed lol
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snarfed human error, the source of 90+% of all outages, problems, etc
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aaronpk tho google calendar is not showing me local time so i'm going to put a human readable description of the start/end times in the ics description
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aaronpk is it really only 3 hours from Reykjavik to Frankfurt? That seems too short.
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aaronpk ICS is a format for calendar files used by many programs such as Apple Calendar and Google Calendar, and can be used to share and subscribe to calendars across different systems.
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loqi.me created /ICS (+205) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-02/line/1459631878965 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk so it's actually working just fine! :D https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-02-14-24-49.png
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aaronpk now i can finally stop double-entering my flights! I only have to add them to my website and now i can see them in google calendar! \o/
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snarfed aaronpk++ that's actually pretty cool
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Loqi aaronpk has 102 karma
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aaronpk any bets on whether apple ios calendar supports timezones correctly?
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snarfed ducks
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aaronpk (it doesn't)
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snarfed bridgy is closing in on 1000 tests!
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snarfed wants that milestone but doesn't want to do more work :P
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snarfed KevinMarks: thanks again for the huffduff-video UI improvements! i iterated on them a bit and they're now deployed live.
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snarfed sadly, unrelated, huffduffer is down right now, again. :/
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bret aaronpk: what about the timezone support stuff?
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