#indiewebcamp 2016-04-13

2016-04-13 UTC
begriffs, miklb and brandonrozek joined the channel
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@ResinOnline IndieWeb Has joined the ResinOnline family. Go say hello! https://twitter.com/IndieWebUK (twitter.com/_/status/720014386044223488)
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@jgarber @miklb @BryanSchuetz And updated the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-20-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/719944375678156800)
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@gogasi_ RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719940652662849536)
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@aaronpk RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719938210407682048)
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@myflywheel RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719931457804845056)
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@adactio RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719928961707454464)
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@cho2MLHC RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719927803584483328)
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@btconf So far 45 people registered for the #IndieWebCamp with @aaronpk and @adactio. Still a few seats left. https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2016/side-events#indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/719925268358512641)
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@jeanepaul RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719924368038473728)
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@WowLookArt Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719918792474816512)
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@henne RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719918526488834049)
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@openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/719914707566649344)
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@miklb @BryanSchuetz I’m not in DC, but you should stop by #indiewebcamp in IRC @olivermakes (twitter.com/_/status/719907768703041537)
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@balessan Just discovered the WebMention W3C specification, seems promising accordingly to LDP resources discovery ! #ldp #w3c https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#introduction (twitter.com/_/status/719825907079372800)
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@jkphl Completely overwhelmed: Counting 46 registrations for our @indiewebcamp next weekend. Only 4 seats left! Info message going out soon. #nueww (twitter.com/_/status/719825279821021184)
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@RikMende Trying https://webmention.rocks/ from Known #indieweb: http://www.rmendes.net/2016/trying-webmentionrocks-from-known-indieweb-1 (twitter.com/_/status/719807721143296000)
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@fonte011 Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719761678527787008)
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@WordPressCorner Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719727386162503680)
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@Kelsye RT @Inkwater_Masha Is it worth it to pay for book advertising? http://www.kelsye.com/book-advertising/?platform=hootsuite #selfpub #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/719686832322060288)
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@WordPress4Ever Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719649483043291136)
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@WpStartPage Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719646899989516289)
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@WordPressSales Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719646866049249280)
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@WordPressRules Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719646856297517058)
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@dakotalocal Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/dakotalocal/status/719577303253168133/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/719577303253168133)
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@jgmac1106 Anyone have $5-10 to spare for our #NHV hack-a--thon: https://medium.com/@jgmac1106/3-lessons-we-learned-from-designing-an-inclusive-hack-a-thon-36ccb8b025e9#.v54usl1p2 #teachtheweb #indieweb #ctedu #edtechchat #clmooc #ccourses (twitter.com/_/status/719539530945163264)
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@Inkwater_Masha Is it worth it to pay for book advertising? http://www.kelsye.com/book-advertising/?platform=hootsuite #selfpub #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/719528094390951936)
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@HelponWordPress Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719391384671821824)
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@artwisanggeni #python ronkyuu 0.3.6: Webmention Manager https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ronkyuu/0.3.6 https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ronkyuu/0.3.6 (twitter.com/_/status/719374502203777026)
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@artwisanggeni #python ronkyuu 0.3.6: Webmention Manager https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ronkyuu/0.3.6 (twitter.com/_/status/719374471799287809)
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@pypi_updates ronkyuu 0.3.6: Webmention Manager https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ronkyuu/0.3.6 (twitter.com/_/status/719373409868713984)
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@Paul_Pruneau On notice: http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for #WordPress. (twitter.com/_/status/719367005124620289)
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@DeividRobbles RT @WordPressSells Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719330789717123072)
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@WPUpdates1 RT @WordPressSells Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719330573219717120)
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@WordPressSells Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719330397885231108)
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@WordPressWins Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719288864653893633)
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@WPQuickStarter Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719284954014871552)
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@WPisCool Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719284944212795393)
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@veganstraightedge @optshiftk @brentsimmons see also: @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/719263553438527488)
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@dshanske @tealtan @anildash @kissane We're looking to do another Indiewebcamp in NYC if you are interested in being involved. (twitter.com/_/status/719233766686912516)
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@fonte011 Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/719193111205961728)
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@benborges_ #indieweb Publish on your Site -Syndicate elsewhere -React anywhere -aggregate back to you https://1-m.cc/2016/note-to-self-maybe-its-time-to-write-a-long#comments https://twitter.com/benborges_/status/719171344810831873/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/719171344810831873)
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@benborges_ #Indieweb for grassroots movements - a few ideas to develop on https://1-m.cc/2016/note-to-self-maybe-its-time-to-write-a-long #selfhosted #secure #ownyourdata #PostSnowdenWorld (twitter.com/_/status/719167311702310914)
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@benborges_ Facebook just closed it's walled-garden even more by removing access to RSS feeds for Pages #Fail #indieweb https://twitter.com/benborges_/status/719148158903685120/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/719148158903685120)
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@devleakslinks The #IndieWeb is important - it focuses on You, not the corporations that own the big silo content farms. http://devleaks.com/link/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/719072430128545792)
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@malcolmblaney @kevinmarks @indiewebcamp @kylewmahan cool! do Australians count as under-represented? ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/718992254514253825)
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@kylewmahan RT @annbass @kevinmarks @indiewebcamp I love the spirit! How do those people get identifies and selected? (twitter.com/_/status/718902761144758272)
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@kylewmahan RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @indiewebcamp: a doner would like to sponsor $1000 for individuals from under-represented groups to attend Indiewebcamp Summit (twitter.com/_/status/718902444785213440)
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@fonte011 Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718853360561045506)
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@guidoscialfa RT @realloc "Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress" http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ #wordpress #feedly (twitter.com/_/status/718842384575045632)
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@offrayLC @el3ctron Chévere! La #IndieWeb ha tomado para mi la forma de infraestructuras auto-hospedadas combinadas con https://offray.withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/718815009065824256)
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tantek whoa
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@nueww IndieWebCamp - 2-tägiges Treffen von Webmachern mit dem Ziel, offene Technologien zu entwickeln. #hacksession #NUEWW http://nueww.de/programm/show/50/ (twitter.com/_/status/718754091669811200)
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@kevinmarks RT @indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-08.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/718548982612365314/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718685243696263168)
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@ChrisAldrich Upcoming Homebrew Website Club event in Los Angeles on 4/27! Will you join us? #IndieWeb http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-27-homebrew-website-club#Los_Angeles_.28Santa_Monica.29 (twitter.com/_/status/718629639497711616)
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@WordPressSaint Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718618361639354368)
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@jgmac1106 Yeah. I think I did it right #indieweb #teachtheweb https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/718605438229606400/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718605438229606400)
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@jgmac1106 Now I see this on my branch:...I just don't want to be behind. How do I get current? #indieweb #teachtheweb Thx https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/718601064296103936/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718601064296103936)
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@WordPressAlive Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718559841464283137)
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@RikMende This Week in the IndieWeb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-08.html #nowreading (twitter.com/_/status/718558908390899713)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-08.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/718548982612365314/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718548982612365314)
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@WowLookArt RT @wpmudev: Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for #WordPress: http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/wpmudev/status/716913199400882176/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718534005252075520)
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@EXPfarm Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718514451905974272)
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@ChrisAldrich I love how @QuntaMagazine uses POSSE to @TheAtlantic. #IWantThatAPI #IndieWeb http://indiewebcamp.com/posse https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/718503867067944960/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718503867067944960)
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@kevinmarks “They became engineers precisely because they were no good at history.” - @el33th4xor http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/04/05/how-software-gets-bloated/ #indieweb #monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/718485486075912192)
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@miklb For the #indieweb folks https://twitter.com/kadamwhite/status/718422104400609280 (twitter.com/_/status/718481499771834369)
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@devleakslinks The #IndieWeb is important - it focuses on You, not the corporations that own the big silo content farms. http://devleaks.com/link/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/718468451040370689)
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@rohitkhare RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @indiewebcamp: a doner would like to sponsor $1000 for individuals from under-represented groups to attend Indiewebcamp Summit (twitter.com/_/status/718467847479885824)
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@costa_keely RT @Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718455949581815808)
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@BackbayVentures When and How to Use all 3 Types of #Linkbacks in #WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ #blogging @jpen365 via @wpmudev https://twitter.com/BackbayVentures/status/718442131824750593/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718442131824750593)
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@DeniseBaer RT @Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718435244588797953)
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@dixonprice1 RT @Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718432849557393410)
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@stevieboyh RT @Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718431751287238657)
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@golfnovels RT @Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718430492048142336)
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@kdhwriter RT @Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718430466077024256)
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@Inkwater_Masha Piracy! "They're giving my book away!" #indieauth #selfpublishing http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2016/04/avast-piracy-self-publisher/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/718429547176337408)
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@Doorda RT @InramsT Piwik Is An IndieWeb Alternative To Google Analytics - http://www.inramstechnology.com/analytic/piwik-is-an-indieweb-alternative-to-google-analytics/ https://twitter.com/InramsT/status/718388740583002112/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718394883313164288)
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miklb quite the backlog Loqi is letting loose
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kylewm Goodness Loqi, how long have you been holding onto those?
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Loqi :)
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kylewm Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 395 karma
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GWG Evening.
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GWG https://wordpress.org/news/2016/04/coleman/ - Okay, so now Pingbacks can be enhanced in WordPress. Good.
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david.shanske.com edited /user-agent (+163) (view diff)
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@KojiFlowers RT @Inkwater_Masha Is it worth it to pay for book advertising? http://www.kelsye.com/book-advertising/?platform=hootsuite #selfpub #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/719686931513217024)
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@mrshll1001 ... aaand fixed. BEHOLD AS I MIGHTILY INTERACT WITH THE TWITTER API #indieweb #php http://mrshll.uk/notes/286 (twitter.com/_/status/720142886969417728)
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk twitter must have tweaked their search algorithm
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+1103) "/* checking endpoint once per domain */ summary of IRC discussion 2016-04-11" (view diff)
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sknebel GWG, kylewm: I tried to summarize our discussion 2 days ago in the wiki http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=26879&oldid=25286&rcid=26843
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@jkphl On another note: Welcome back to Nuremberg, @aaronpk! Great to have you here again, this time for https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg #nueww #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/720190962765598720)
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aaronpk I was thinking about the "expiring endpoint" that a few of us experimented with a while ago
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aaronpk I think it's actually an XSS prevention technique rather than an anti-spam technique
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aaronpk it's basically a CSRF token, since it means the endpoint won't accept a webmention request unless the webmention client first discovers the endpoint for the page which gives it the CSRF token
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+190) "/* Articles */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+174) "/* Articles */" (view diff)
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@jkphl @marcthiele Btw doesn't exactly look like hand luggage. Not sure what I'm gonna do about it ... ;) #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/720198262976851968/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/720198262976851968)
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@aaronpk Found some decent coffee and fast wifi! Working on the #webmention spec and https://t.co/uIAPlZp7Hn! https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/720220439625207810/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/720220439625207810)
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voxpelli aaronpk: I find the server side use of CORS for WebMention that was discussed fairly weird :/ The same thinking should then apply for PuSH and maybe even WebHooks as well, right?
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aaronpk it would seem to apply to those as well yes
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aaronpk that's why my first question was is this more similar to an HTML form or JS submitting cross-domain?
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aaronpk if HTML form, then no additional change is necessary, since HTML forms are allowed to submit cross domain already
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aaronpk actually no it doesn't apply to PuSH, since before the PuSH hub posts, it first confirms the subscription request with a GET
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aaronpk and web hooks are usually manually entered, rather than discovered automatically
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aaronpk (for anyone else following, this discussion is here https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/issues/20#issuecomment-209385798)
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voxpelli I think that if one downloads a piece of software and runs it on ones computer then the security considerations are different than if one just visits a page in a browser
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voxpelli Actually ran into the term "SSRF" an hour ago which describes at leats part of the issue: https://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/918.html
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aaronpk the problem is more apparent if you assume the victim's server supports salmention, since that means an attacker can cause it to automatically send the webmention. doesn't require a human participant.
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aaronpk voxpelli: that's worth adding to the GH issue
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voxpelli aaronpk: the SSRF-thing?
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aaronpk yeah
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voxpelli Funny part about the CORS-suggestion is that it would result in eg. the form-based submit on my site to no-longer be spec-compliant :)
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aaronpk oh hey
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aaronpk good point
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aaronpk the "webmention client" being the browser in that case
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aaronpk if the browser sent the webmention via a JS post, then it would do that OPTIONS check automatically
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voxpelli aaronpk: if it wanted to check the response, yeah :) but JS can always create a form and POST it to wherever
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voxpelli aaronpk: added a comment now, sorry if I rementioned something that had already come up during the discussion
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voxpelli need to get a bit up to date on what has happened to the webmention standard lately
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aaronpk oh yeah i forgot that JS will still run the post, just not read the response
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aaronpk nothing too drastic has changed with the spec. summary of changes is here http://webmention.net/draft/#change-log
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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cweiske aaronpk, section 3.1.1: "and check for an HTTP Link header [RFC5988] with rel="webmention", or a <link> or <a> element" - you don't mention HTML there, although <link> and <a> are HTML tags
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aaronpk ah crap i think i deleted "HTML" when I made that change.
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aaronpk oh, no it actually never mentioned HTML.
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aaronpk i'll change it to "or an HTML <link> or <a>..."
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voxpelli aaronpk: is the Web Linking spec dead? Else one could maybe defer how to find a web link to that? https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
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cweiske I guess you don't want to specify the version
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cweiske so if HTML 9 pops up, webmention clients are expected to understand it
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voxpelli nevermind, I didn't look too much at it
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cweiske since this is a MUST, every webmention client MUST have a html5 parser
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aaronpk yes, as well as an HTTP response parser to handle the Link header
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cweiske but complexity-wise, parsing HTTP response headers is <<<<< HTML5 parsing
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cweiske how do you extract html link headers in your code? domdocument::loadhtml?
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aaronpk i use https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php
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cweiske ah, regex
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cweiske I see it does _not_ support <a> tags
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cweiske wait, that was pingback
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aaronpk yes it does https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php/blob/master/src/IndieWeb/MentionClient.php#L110
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aaronpk with tests https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php/blob/master/tests/DiscoverTest.php
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cweiske yes, I looked at the pingback code
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cweiske and noted too late
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aaronpk yeah, pingback doesn't mention advertising the pingback endpoint with an <a> tag so that is correct
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@fonte011 Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/720233445121777664)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "New integrated authorization server for p3k" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/13/8/indieauth
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aaronpk joining the ranks of people who are not delegating to indieauth.com ^^^
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cweiske welcome
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cweiske now we are 3
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@netzplosion RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/720239485401882624)
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@luxagraf Apologies for a coming barage of potentially broken, incomplete, incomprehensible tweets. Testing twitter API for an #indieweb project. (twitter.com/_/status/720253582780407809)
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gRegorLove Good morning.
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Loqi gRegorLove: mblaney left you a message 16 hours, 42 minutes ago: I released official SimplePie 1.4-beta a few days ago that includes microformats support, will release 1.4 in a few weeks. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-12/line/1460502865673
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gregorlove.com edited /SimplePie (+90) "Note h-feed support" (view diff)
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aaronpk great prompt: https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-13-18-00-54.png
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@Inkwater_Masha 7 Secrets to Writing Persuasive Back Cover Sales Copy http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2013/05/casey-demchak-back-cover-copy/?platform=hootsuite #indieauth #selfpub #amwriting (twitter.com/_/status/720276788866367488)
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gregorlove.com edited /SimplePie (+41) "github" (view diff)
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gRegorLove !tell mblaney Awesome! I've added /SimplePie to the wiki noting that.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek hey aaronpk - nice separation of just plain mentions into the "Other Mentions" section on webmention.rocks
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tantek how about a similar heading, but positive framed for the Comments!
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aaronpk 👍
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tantek e.g. "Comments"
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tantek "The mentions below are replies to this post, and properly marked up their link to this post with the in-reply-to property."
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tantek (similarly when you receive them, you can add other subsections for "likes" and then reacji ;) )
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tantek is quite pleased with having posted the first "Comment" on the webmention.rocks tests :D
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tantek ... but would have put "First!" in that comment if he knew that his was the first comment ;)
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gRegorLove "properly marked up" implies the author made a mistake if they just mentioned it?
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tantek maybe
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tantek it's not an either or
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tantek whoa I didn't realize that 2015.kylewm.com was not static!
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tantek http://2015.kylewm.com/2016/04/webmention-rocks-test-from-red-wind-just-out-of-curiosity !
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Loqi [Kyle Mahan] Webmention.rocks test from Red Wind just out of curiosity :P
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tantek hmm does Loqi send Webmentions from the IRC logs? ;)
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Loqi :)
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tantek that would be kind of awesome. then posts mentioned here would know when they're being discussed!
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kylewm tantek: yup still ticking along
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tantek and you could see on a post the history of when it was discussed in the channel
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aaronpk i am pretty on the fence about sending webmentions from the IRC logs lol
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tantek I mean, a few of us have done it manually ;)
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tantek they're properly marked up with h-entry and all that
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aaronpk i'm a little worried about making comment loops
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aaronpk haven't figured out if that's actually a problem, but it seems that if the IRC log sends a webmention to your post, and your post mentions "indieweb", then it will get fed back into the channel from the superfeedr search
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@calum_ryan IndieWebCamp is happening in the awesome Nuremberg this weekend! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg – alas I cannot attend :( leider (twitter.com/_/status/720292192678318080)
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emmak maybe loqi could have a command to manually send a webmention?
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Loqi who, me?
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sknebel or don't send WMs for things Loqi wrote
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek sknebel: not a strategy - people can always send them manually
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sknebel but they already can do that
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tantek sounds like Loqi needs handle salmentions
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tantek ;)
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kylewm yes! worried about comment loops is a really good reason *to* send them
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kylewm so we can find the problem and fix it
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tantek aaronpk: the other way to think about this is that we've discovered another possible source of webmention "noise", so we should explore it, understand it, and figure out a good UX etc.!
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tantek kylewm++ right!
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Loqi kylewm has 316 karma
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aaronpk haha yeah
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aaronpk okay fine, but not until i finish a few other things first
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tantek lol
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tantek basically, the more we can proactively push the limits of webmention, design/update UX / protocols accordingly, the more of a headstart we get on potential antagonists
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kylewm aaronpk++ for being FIFO
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Loqi aaronpk has 115 karma
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aaronpk more like FIMFO
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aaronpk first in mostly first out
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gRegorLove +1 for sending wm to links humans paste in here
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aaronpk oh man you all are asking for it :P
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aaronpk should be fun to see what happens
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aaronpk it will also be a very quick way to test your webmention receiving :P
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KevinMarks I've done it before manually, and it does strain the receiving parser
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aaronpk strain? i thought the log markup was pretty simple
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aaronpk xray seems to handle it fine https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2016-04-13%2Fline%2F1460568549298
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KevinMarks hm, maybe I sent the who days page rather then the line. which is probably unfair
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KevinMarks s/who/whole/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: hm, maybe I sent the whole days page rather then the line. which is probably unfair
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aaronpk yes that is unfair :)
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voxpelli tantek: step one would perhaps be for Loqi to PESOS our chat lines to our own platforms and then we could webmention from there? ;)
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aaronpk voxpelli: you're welcome to do that yourself! just poll the mf2 from the /irc/today link
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "2016-04-20!" (view diff)
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voxpelli aaronpk: ;) would avoid the problem of circular mentions at least
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gRegorLove I'm not too worried. I'm rarely linked in here :)
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tantek whoa PESOS from the IRC Logs?!?
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tantek voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 68 karma
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tantek I fully expect aaronpk to get that working since he "lives" in IRC
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tantek and IRC as a posting client to his own website makes so much sense
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tantek "ownyourIRC"
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aaronpk you will be pleasantly surprised by my plans :)
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tantek there is the challenge of impersonation of IRC nicknames
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aaronpk NickServ handles it pretty well
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tantek !tell kylewm any chance you could post a few indie events and FB POSSE copies for the next three HWC meetups? 2016-04-20, 2016-05-04, 2016-05-18 ? Very good chance some press may be showing up very soon, and they may need the explicit choice of which to RSVP to (e.g. on the FB event copy)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk alright, webmention.rocks updated!
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aaronpk p.s. who's gonna be the first to "like" one of the tests? ;-)
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KevinMarks did you update the parser for alt?
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aaronpk womp womp. need to update telegraph.
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aaronpk gRegorLove sent a PR but it's not in there yet https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/90
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KevinMarks fragmention support? https://webmention.rocks/test/1#mention-tech
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Test #1
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aaronpk i lost track of the current state of fragmention
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aaronpk i installed someone's JS on the wiki a while ago but not sure where it came from or what changes there were
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KevinMarks hm, I got a 400 for sending that as a mention to webmention rocks
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bear I don't see a new entry for "likes" on webmention.rocks
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KevinMarks so https://webmention.rocks/test/1 without a fragment is OK?
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Test #1
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aaronpk KevinMarks: i don't know what your'e asking
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KevinMarks I may have mis-sent ti
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aaronpk bear: the current tests are about endpoint discovery, but they will parse different kinds of content at the source URL appropriately
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KevinMarks aha
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bear ah
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KevinMarks so I sent a wm without the fragment when the link had the fragment and got a 400
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bear then my static site has an advantage - I just need to change the reference
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KevinMarks if I send it with the fragment it works
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aaronpk KevinMarks: that is correct behavior on the receiver's part
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KevinMarks which seems correct, yes
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aaronpk KevinMarks: if you look at the response you got from webmention.rocks for that, it should have been a pretty detailed message
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bear neat - found a bug in my link scanning
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aaronpk huh I thought mention-client-php used link-rel-parser-php but apparently it parses the HTTP headers itself
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tantek sounds very possible
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bear i'm confused about where my "like" webmention got placed - I didn't think that a normal webmention required anything in the rel
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bear and that likes have "u-like-of"
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aaronpk where are you seeing a reference to "rel"?
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bear on the test/1 page "Other Mentions
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bear The mentions below linked to this post, but did not include this post's URL as an in-reply-to property."
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bear a normal mention is different than a comment I thought
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aaronpk mhm, where does it say "rel"?
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bear sorry - I am assuming rel
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aaronpk well there's your problem ;-)
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KevinMarks what is in-reply-to?
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Loqi in-reply-to is a rel value for use where a post permalink page is a reply to another post https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to
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KevinMarks change the def?
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bear if I have a link on my post that is <a href></a> - that's the simplest form of a webmention
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aaronpk KevinMarks++ ha we should change that
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Loqi KevinMarks has 208 karma
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bear it's not a reply - it's a mention, so no in-reply-to should be required
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aaronpk change <a href="*"> to <a href="*" class="u-in-reply-to"> and it turns into a reply/comment
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aaronpk change to <a href="*" class="u-like-of"> and it becomes a like
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aaronpk but rel values aren't used for that
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bear oh - I see - your listing them *normal* mentions at the bottom as "Other Mentions"
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aaronpk s/values/attributes
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: but rel attributes aren't used for that
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KevinMarks well, they were used for that
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bear it's the "Other" part that threw me off
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KevinMarks but the page scope makes them less useful
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aaronpk KevinMarks: right, but it's been a long time since that's been true
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aaronpk bear: ah should that just say "Mentions"?
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bear for simple folk like myself :) please
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singpolyma happily still publishes rel="in-reply-to" beside class="u-in-reply-to"
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snarfed enqueues https://developers.facebook.com/videos/f8-2016/graph-api-new-tools-for-efficiency-and-productivity/
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KevinMarks so we shoudl fix in-reply-to to prefer u- in both wikis then
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KevinMarks cos http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-in-reply-to#WebMention
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bear the change from rel to class is messing me up now - my brain has old info stuck in it
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Loqi rel-in-reply-to
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aaronpk singpolyma: well it's fine on page permalinks, but doesn't make sense in list views
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gRegorLove Agreed, "Mentions" makes more sense than "Other Mentions"
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bear just liked test/1
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KevinMarks can I send an RSVP to test/1 ?
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aaronpk KevinMarks: you can, but it's not an event so it will just show up as a mention
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gRegorLove Interesting to display the content from the mentions, though. Anyone else doing that? I just display "[name] mentioned this"
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bear wow - that's a big star
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aaronpk gRegorLove: i'm on the fence about displaying the content from mentions. keep going back and forth.
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gRegorLove Well, you are a big star, bear :)
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bear :P LOL
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aaronpk lately i've found the mentions of my posts are actually useful to show for the most part. just not the full text of articles.
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gRegorLove To us!
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bear goes to add likes for the other 8 test links
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gRegorLove Yeah, in the age of tweet-length posts I suspect the majority would be useful to display. Only those long blog posts with a link to me would I not want to display. Perhaps I should base the display off of length.
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KevinMarks this is actually the secret of webmention vs pingback - we can assuem short posts now ;)
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gRegorLove Hm. May be time to archive my itches list and start fresh.
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bear \o/ 8for8 on webmention.rocks likes
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+169) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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kylewm Gregorlove: yeah I had to do that recently
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 59 minutes ago: any chance you could post a few indie events and FB POSSE copies for the next three HWC meetups? 2016-04-20, 2016-05-04, 2016-05-18 ? Very good chance some press may be showing up very soon, and they may need the explicit choice of which to RSVP to (e.g. on the FB event copy) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-13/line/1460569202018
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kylewm tantek: roger wilco
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gregorlove.com edited /in-reply-to (-5) "update dfn based on current usage" (view diff)
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gRegorLove What is in-reply-to?
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Loqi in-reply-to is a microformat for use where a post is a reply to another post https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to
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bear oh - what is the recycle looking image on webmention.rocks?
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gRegorLove Took a crack at that. ^ There's probably more updates to be made since the rest of the page is still rel-in-reply-to centric.
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aaronpk it's a repost icon
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KevinMarks_ does it support reacji?
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-in-reply-to (+17) "/* See Also */ rel-values" (view diff)
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aaronpk not yet ;-)
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bear what is a repost
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indiewebcamp.com/repost
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gRegorLove What is rel-in-reply-to?
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Loqi rel=in-reply-to is a rel value for indicating the destination of a link is an original post that the current page is a reply to; because of its page-scoped rel-limitation, you should use u-in-reply-to in addition or instead https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-in-reply-to
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aaronpk now i think i should add heads and explanatory text to the like and repost sections
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bear links to the spec and/or wiki page
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aaronpk what is like-of
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "like-of" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10J0
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aaronpk what is repost-of?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "repost-of" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10J1
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-values (+55) "/* Optional legacy */ links to rel- pages" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ QOTD "Working with JSON objects is similar to working with XML, except that parsing or encoding a JSON object is much easier." https://developers.google.com/apps-script/guides/services/external#connecting_to_public_apis
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aaronpk heh, parsing the XML was never the hard part for me. it was dealing with actually traversing it with whatever language abstraction there was and finding namespaced attributes and elements that was always infuriating.
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tantek resists the plumbing trolling :P
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bear xml and json both have usage sharp edges - they are just in different places so those of us who deal with both are always bleeding from some wound
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KevinMarks_ that page is an amusing example of layers of historic abstarction
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bret go has a pretty excellent html traversing lib built in
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bret been reading books about go
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bret the dream of xml applications is alive in react/jsx tho thats for sure
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GWG Afternoon
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gRegorLove o/ GWG
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GWG GRegorLove, any news?
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gRegorLove Not much. I started trying to add microformats feed parsing support to https://github.com/fguillot/picoFeed, but I lost steam with it.
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GWG WordPress 4.5 dropped, and I'm wondering if I could get webmentions and Linkback display improvements as a feature project for 4.6
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gRegorLove What's the process for that?
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GWG G
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GWG I need to find other interested parties
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gRegorLove Is it a formal process, or just gotta get some core developers on board?
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tantek GWG - can you provide schedule / time range estimate for when 4.6 might "drop" as it were?
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tantek reason being, as soon as you get webmentions and Linkback display improvements as a feature in core and "dropped" to public upgrades, then we have maybe days if not hours before the wordpress webmention spam storm.
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GWG August.
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GWG But a feature project can span releases
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tantek so you may want to ask folks around here if they are ready for it
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GWG REST API took two years
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tantek if they've hardened their endpoints sufficiently etc.
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gRegorLove Oh, I thought you meant display improvements only, not webmention as part of core.
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kylewm huh, why didn't Loqi show a notification for https://kylewm.com/2016/04/sf-homebrew-website-club-13
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Loqi SF Homebrew Website Club
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kylewm webmention.io says the wm was accepted
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tantek kylewm: Loqi hasn't been showing webmentions to indiewebcamp.com URLs for a while
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk orly...?
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kylewm on purpose?
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tantek I thought it got dropped in one of the server moves
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aaronpk wonders if he broke something shuffling things around in his server moves
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GWG gRegorLove, I think it will be a multi release process where pieces go in over several releases.
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tantek speaking of webmentions to indiewebcamp URLs
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tantek aaronpk is there an Indie Event and FB POSSE Copy for https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg ?
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tantek I knew something was blocking my RSVP post ;)
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GWG tantek, re people being ready, no one has shown interest yet. I can't handle it alone.
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aaronpk i thought i made one
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tantek I only see Lanyrd here (as other links to rsvp to) https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg#RSVP
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GWG I'm t
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aaronpk checks https://aaronparecki.com/events
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GWG rying to recruit
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aaronpk notes his timezone of the event is wrong because he forgot that germany is normally +0100 but is +0200 for DST
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tantek GWG, I suppose if you start threatening to get Webmention support into WordPress 4.6 in August, that might get some attention from folks
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GWG It will never be August.
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voxpelli my webmention endpoint should probably get some hardening before a full on assault
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GWG But I'd like to be on our way by then
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kylewm ha, my event permalinks are really bad
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GWG Fixing pingbacks is part of it
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GWG I just found the hook in WordPress to completely replace the Pingback handler
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tantek aaronpk if your indie event is good enough for Joschi then yeah add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg#RSVP and hopefully a FB event copy too
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KevinMarks_ so I'm on TWiG today, at 1:30 - likely a lot fo F8 talk
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KevinMarks_ so Instant Articles thoughts etc welcome
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GWG KevinMarks, have fun. Regards to the hosts.
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GWG Overcoming the anti pingback lobby is going to be hard
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-04-20-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* San Francisco */ add urls" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club (+80) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-05-18-homebrew-website-club (+80) "/* San Francisco */ add urls" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, the antipingback lobby has good reasons to be anti
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tantek documenting those reasons, and coming up with good answers as the why Webmention is better, is a VERY worthy exercise
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tantek so what I'm saying is, any feedback/complaints etc. from the anti pingback lobby is VERY helpful, so if you can document that or at least share links to it here, it would be greatly appreciatd
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GWG Will get back to you on that
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sensiblemn has anyone posse'd pictures or PDFs to archive.org before? if not, has anyone looked into how difficult this might be?
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sensiblemn or, more generally, have people POSSE'd PDFs anywhere?
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tantek good q
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tantek what is a PDF?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PDF" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10J2
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sensiblemn one use case would be citizens and journalists that do government data requests being able to publish the PDF documents they receive on their own site and then POSSE them to archive.org and scribd
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KevinMarks_ hm, twitter not loading
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@jkphl RT @openSUSE Interested in re-claiming your #web? Go #IndieWeb together with @t @adactio @aaronpk in @nuernberg_de this WE https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/720352058398916608)
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[shaners] http://blog.bl00cyb.org/2016/04/politics-and-death/
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[shaners] This post by willobloo (and fin) about mihi’s death and memorial site gave me an idea.
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[shaners] The longevity of our personal sites isn’t really a solved problem. And the attempted solutions are definitely not very indie.
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[shaners] What I’m thinking about exploring now is a kind of “dead man’s switch” to hand over the keys to some trusted person if I don’t perform some action (click a link, respond to a notification email, etc) in some amount of time.
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aaronpk I keep thinking about a dead man's switch too, but for things other than my website also. Makes me nervous not having a good system for that every time I travel
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[shaners] Maybe even spin up a subdomain (or make public an existing subdomain) like memorial.<site>.com or something similar. to make it even easier for whoever to do whatever, but keeps it on our site (sort of).
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KevinMarks_ google has a thing for that
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[shaners] aaronpk: maybe if neither of us have done anything about by November, let’s hack something out at IWC LA.
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[shaners] kevinmarks: URL?
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aaronpk the best archive of your site is a folder of static assets, which is another thing to consider
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KevinMarks_ (email people if you don't login within a month)
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tantek what is longevity?
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Loqi Longevity is the goal of keeping your data as future-friendly and future-proof as possible; it is one of the indieweb principles https://indiewebcamp.com/longevity
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tantek shaners, feel free to add to /longevity#Brainstorming
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[shaners] also, i don’t trust google to not sunset that feature/product over the course of my life and death
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[shaners] t: k
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aaronpk haha yeah
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KevinMarks_ https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/account/inactive
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veganstraightedge.com edited /longevity (+1387) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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aaronpk Now I want to figure out what *sending* a reacji should look like on my site
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aaronpk it looks silly to have just the one emoji
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aaronpk we don't really have any silo examples to look at unfortunatley
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@veganstraightedge #indieweb dead man's switch: hand over the keys and instructions to my site to a trusted person if I don’t respond to a prompt in X time. (twitter.com/_/status/720356995778240512)
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@veganstraightedge This post by @willowbl00 got me thinking about an #indieweb “dead man’s switch”. http://blog.bl00cyb.org/2016/04/politics-and-death/ (twitter.com/_/status/720356322693107712)
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aaronpk Apparently Loqi's streaming search also broke in the server moves
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Loqi grins profusely
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aaronpk Now I also want to convert ascii emoji like :-) to emoji and group them with the rest
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gRegorLove shaners, aaronpk: I'm interested in that too. No real ideas about it currently.
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aaronpk Willow led a good discussion on this at CyborgCamp MIT in 2014. There's video of it
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gRegorLove Have a link? Don't see it on http://cyborgcamp.com/video-archive/
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Loqi Permalink
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gRegorLove Easy, loqi
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gRegorLove Lol
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aaronpk Oh my
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aaronpk It was one of the breakout videos. Check on YouTube after clicking one of those
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aaronpk Oh man. You can use emoji as html attribute names and in jquery selectors
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gRegorLove Networked Mortality: https://youtu.be/igMf0Wmfn9A
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aaronpk That's the one
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gregorlove.com edited /longevity (+105) "/* Articles and talks */ Discussion at CyborgCamp, Networked Mortality" (view diff)
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stefan1 Ehm, who is Loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Loqi.me
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stefan1 !standards
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Loqi http://xkcd.com/927/
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sensiblemn i hadn't heard of Monal for XMPP on OSX and iOS.
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sensiblemn wrong channel, sorry
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gRegorLove Someone needs to make a microphone that senses audio levels and tells the holder "eat the mic" until they do
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aaronpk Yes
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aaronpk recording untrained microphone holders is very hard
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emmak_ does the micropub spec allow for uploading multiple photos with a post?
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gregorlove.com edited /longevity (+169) "/* Dead Man's Switch */" (view diff)
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aaronpk emmak: if it doesn't explicitly mention that it should. Setting the param to "photo[]" should work
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emmak_ "the file is named by content type, either "audio", "video" or "photo". A request may include one or more of these files"
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emmak_ so the field may optionally be "photo[]" instead of "photo"?
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aaronpk Yep that's pretty ambiguous, thanks :-)
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[shaners] aaronpk is that technically true of all fields?
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[shaners] that they can be field=foo or field=[foo,bar]
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[shaners] or rather
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aaronpk as far as the micro pub spec isnconcerned yes. But the vocab of what you're creating might not know what to do with it
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[shaners] field=[foo],field=[foo]
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aaronpk wow I suck at typing on tiny keyboard
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[shaners] field=[foo],field=[bar]
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aaronpk more like field[]=foo&field[]=bar
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[shaners] thanks.
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aaronpk Or in json, a string or an array
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@manton2 @dreger @benjaminbrooks I link them under a “Snippets” section, but formally call each a “microblog post”. IndieWebCamp tends to use “note”. (twitter.com/_/status/720369919783673856)
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KevinMarks_ pluged IWC nurnberg and webmention.rocks
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KevinMarks_ and confetti.cool
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aaronpk kylewm: does silo.pub also post location data to twitter? can't remember if it does or if i'm not sending it right
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aaronpk oh nvm, it's working fine.
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tantek aaronpk probably worth adding "uploading multiple photos?" to the Micropub FAQ
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aaronpk yeah and an explicit mention in the spec too
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tantek indeed
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kylewm aaronpk: does http://webmention.rocks/ not redirect on purpose?
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aaronpk wat no
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aaronpk um it redirects for me?
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aaronpk curl -I http://webmention.rocks/
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gRegorLove Same
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kylewm hmm
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kylewm odd, I guess I was still caching
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kylewm from before launch
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kylewm hard refresh fixed it
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aaronpk weird
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aaronpk just pushed an update!
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aaronpk https://webmention.rocks/test/1
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Test #1
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aaronpk ridiculous
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aaronpk i'm going to bed now. have fun with that. :P
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olivermak.es edited /events/2016-04-20-homebrew-website-club (+21) "/* Washington DC */ add Oliver Pattison" (view diff)
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aaronpk i expect to see at least 3 more reacji by the time i wake up in the morning
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