#indiewebcamp 2016-04-24

2016-04-24 UTC
snarfed joined the channel
#
notenoughneon.com edited /token-endpoint (-14) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ fix url" (view diff)
#
kylewm.com edited /GitHub (+563) "/* POSSE to GitHub */" (view diff)
mlncn joined the channel
#
kylewm does anyone know if Gitorious the software is still being developed, even though Gitorious the company was acquired by GitLab?
#
kylewm wonders when it's appropriate to refer to projects in the past tense on the wiki
#
sknebel kylewm: at least the official website still refers to the repo on the now-readonly gitorious site
#
sknebel and they recommended to switch selfhosted installs away to GitLab
#
sknebel -> past tense i'd say
#
kylewm thx
#
kylewm.com edited /Gitorious (+548) "more information than you probably want" (view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
bear cool, just also enabled http2
#
@acegiak Also http://indiewebcamp.Com https://twitter.com/junnuravikumar/status/722801249221914628 (twitter.com/_/status/724040319910567936)
#
kylewm.com edited /GitHub (+479) "/* Self-hosted alternatives */ note some of these tools were deprecated a long time ago" (view diff)
mlncn joined the channel
#
www.svenknebel.de edited /GitHub (-281) "removed search criticism, feature is available again" (view diff)
#
kylewm sknebel++
#
Loqi sknebel has 6 karma
brianlovewords_, hecliunyx, snarfed, mdik_ and mlncn joined the channel
#
snarfed continues slogging through the port to FB API v2.6
snarfed and wolftune joined the channel
#
kylewm how bad is it?
#
aaronparecki.com edited /GitHub (+304) "Add Gogs" (view diff)
#
aaronpk What is Gogs?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Gogs" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ja
#
aaronpk Gogs is a self-hosted Git server with additional features such as issue management.
#
loqi.me created /Gogs (+110) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-23/line/1461475876613 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
aaronpk Still the easiest way to create a wiki page
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Gogs (+249) (view diff)
#
Loqi [indieweb] "ia, amp, rss, syndikation, bloggen" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9741/1/6/
#
Loqi [indieweb] "ia, amp, rss, syndikation, bloggen" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9741/1/0/
#
Loqi [indieweb] "ia, amp, rss, syndikation, bloggen" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9741/1/49/
#
kylewm totally forgot about gogs!
#
kylewm aaronpk: did you intend to restore the "signup required for search" section in your edit of Github?
#
kylewm.com edited /Gogs (+121) "/* Crit */ development is hosted on GitHub" (view diff)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Hm, the shared group definitions thing really is a good use for a bot
#
[kevinmarks] I'm sceptical of the OMG bots fad, but I have been using bots for this for over a decade
loic_m, j12t and yakker joined the channel
#
@dkreuz Meine Hashtags für heute: #indieweb #pm #elixir. Und ich hab den roten Punkt! https://twitter.com/dkreuz/status/724140969780776961/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/724140969780776961)
loic_m joined the channel
#
@WolfgangKraus RT @dkreuz Meine Hashtags für heute: #indieweb #pm #elixir. Und ich hab den roten Punkt! https://twitter.com/dkreuz/status/724140969780776961/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/724144428965892096)
j12t, tantek, catsup and kerozene joined the channel
#
@adactioLinks IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf 2016 // beyond tellerrand https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/indiewebcamp-duesseldorf-2016 (twitter.com/_/status/724198863276482560)
Kopfstein, mlncn, mattronix_ and dym_cx joined the channel
#
dym_cx wiki not saving `data:base64` and other data-urls is a 'security issue' or just not in the white list of things, just like `<article />`?
brianlovewords_ joined the channel
#
@caseyisreading ✌ @Reading "IndieWebCamp" https://www.reading.am/p/4fZ8/https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/724227326020558848)
#
@caseyisreading ✌ @Reading "IndieWebCamp Nürnberg Demos 2016-04-17" https://www.reading.am/p/4fZ7/http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiewebcampnuremberg2016demos.html (twitter.com/_/status/724227325102051328)
#
Jeena So I created an event on facebook as the IndieWebCamp account https://www.facebook.com/events/1621105191545682 and added the link back to my own event on https://jeena.net/events/17 but as far as I can see it is not possible to get brid.gy to send webmentions to that event because the IndieWebCamp account doesn't have my website as the homepage in facebook?
#
Loqi Homebrew Website Club Göteborg
brianlovewords_ joined the channel
#
Jeena Ah, I had to add my domain to the description.
mlncn joined the channel
#
aaronpk kylewm: oops no, not sure what happened there
KartikPrabhu, hecliunyx, brianlovewords_, snarfed, kbs and mlncn joined the channel
#
kylewm dym_cx: it seems generally desirable for the wiki not to allow data: urls imho. too much surface area for abuse for not much gain
friedcell, mlncn, j12t, catsup, tantek and jrenslin joined the channel
#
www.svenknebel.de edited /git (-57) "/* Silos Running Open Source Software */ removed Gitorious: shutdown" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /git (+49) "consolidate indieweb examples, add myself" (view diff)
#
sknebel Should we maybe move the "Documentation" block to the top in the git article, or link a tutorial in the first block?
#
aaronparecki.com edited /git (-2) "reorder sections" (view diff)
#
aaronpk yes and I also moved up "indieweb examples" higher
#
tantek good call
#
tantek hah cweiske is there twice
#
aaronpk heh there's also http://indiewebcamp.com/code
#
aaronpk which is a much better framing of the problem really
#
aaronpk git is plumbing for code
#
tantek right
#
tantek it does make sense to have both though
#
tantek given the prominence of git / github
#
aaronpk yeah
#
tantek some of the git-specific details/options in /code could probably be merged into /git with a pointer left behind
#
aaronparecki.com edited /code (+127) "/* Aaron Parecki */ I'm using [[Gogs]] now" (view diff)
#
loqi.me created /Emoji (+248) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
wolftune joined the channel
#
www.svenknebel.de edited /Emoji (+1191) "add some material, including issues." (view diff)
#
aaronpk i can't believe we had /reacji before we had /emoji
#
sknebel Since I read about them a bit recently. No info fed by actual implementation and a lot of issues, so please expand! (e.g. how you display them (images? special fonts?))
#
tantek aaronpk: I can, nothing links to /Emoji
#
tantek what is proper capitalization? I usually see it lower case
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "proper capitalization" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jc
#
tantek lol
#
aaronpk i was wondering that too
#
tantek sknebel: is it emoji or Emoji?
#
aaronpk considers adding a section to "issues" about storing emoji in a mysql database
#
tantek common usage seems to have succumbed to lowercase but since you recently read about them perhaps you found?
#
aaronpk grumble grumble
#
tantek aaronpk: lol!
#
tantek everything on the wiki links to /emoji not /Emoji
#
sknebel tantek: yeah, you probably are right
#
sknebel my German brain prefers captalized forms
#
sknebel ok, how do I move a page in the wiki?
#
tantek sknebel: understandable! I'm not sure everyone can - do you see a "Move" link in the header of the page?
#
www.svenknebel.de moved /Emoji to /emoji "more common capitalization"
#
sknebel yes
#
sknebel ;)
#
tantek :)
#
sknebel (btw, is it intentional that redlinks on the wiki are not red?)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Incompatible extensions to fonts is how they are displayed.
#
[kevinmarks] Every platform does it differently
#
aaronpk i didn't do that on purpose
#
aaronparecki.com edited /emoji (+268) "add myself" (view diff)
#
[kevinmarks] Info on emoji fonts here https://eev.ee/blog/2016/04/12/apple-did-not-invent-emoji/
#
[kevinmarks] Summary fail
#
tantek.com edited /git (+185) "why, how to, dedup cweiske" (view diff)
#
sknebel [kevinmarks]: the eev.ee article is linked at the bottom of the page, that's how I went down this particular rabbit hole
#
tantek KevinMarks gets RTFMd ;)
dym_cx, j12t and snarfed joined the channel
#
kylewm sknebel: aaronpk: if it's not a a huge pain, redlinks would be really nice to have
#
sknebel kylewm: aaronpk: seems like just a missing css format, the links have class="new" already
#
kylewm.com created /Git (+17) "Redirected page to [[git]]" (view diff)
#
kylewm.com edited /git (-45) "/* Software */ remove gitosis -- it is really really old" (view diff)
kbs joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] I was surprised that only Firefox has vector emoji
#
aaronpk Should be easy to add.
#
aaronpk what happened to gitosis?
#
@Valerie_Janelle RT @kevinmarks When you build in a SPOF to your process #indieweb https://twitter.com/AP/status/724294171826237440 (twitter.com/_/status/724296933624418309)
#
@WillaCassandra_ RT @kevinmarks When you build in a SPOF to your process #indieweb https://twitter.com/AP/status/724294171826237440 (twitter.com/_/status/724296931481104385)
#
@kevinmarks When you build in a SPOF to your process #indieweb https://twitter.com/AP/status/724294171826237440 (twitter.com/_/status/724296037448347649)
#
sknebel and all kinds of clients on all mobile platofrms use apple emoji, despite them not being under a free license as far as I can tell. but I have to admit, I also think they look the best
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /JavaScript (+265) "linked to eev.ee js article" (view diff)
friedcell, wolftune and Lancey joined the channel
#
kylewm aaronpk: it looked like gitosis stopped being developed in 2007
#
kylewm and the few references I could still find to it said it was deprecated in favor of gitolite
#
aaronpk 2007? wow
#
kylewm it is pretty wild that bridgy and granary have better test coverage than my mf2util library
#
kylewm snarfed++
#
Loqi snarfed has 215 karma
#
kylewm (for context, mf2util is tiny, and I thought pretty extensively tested)
friedcell and j12t joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "IndieWeb Camp Nürnberg notes" http://www.kevin-marks.com/indiewebcampnuremberg2016.html
squeakytoy2, miklb and squeakytoy joined the channel
#
@edbice RT @kevinmarks When you build in a SPOF to your process #indieweb https://twitter.com/AP/status/724294171826237440 (twitter.com/_/status/724311451750424576)
Kopfstein and dym_cx joined the channel
#
dym_cx sknebel: apple is likely to flatten all their emoji to be consistent with current iOS style (surprised it didnt happened 3 years ago)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Kyle, re http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-22/line/1461350630228
#
Loqi [kylewm] right now I think it's creepy that you can log into Quill with https://silo.pub/twitter.com/kylewmahan and start posting without granting write permissions (since you granted silopub write permissions the first time you logged in)...
#
[kevinmarks] That's only true if you have already cookied isn't it?
#
[kevinmarks] I couldn't log in as you with that url?
#
@LilliumPub RT LilliumPub: Good morning #Writers! Get your butts in those chairs and start #writing! #Motivation #WritingMotivation #Authors #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/724314530986250240)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
dym_cx is there anything better than a distributed hash table for shading data?
#
dym_cx s/shading/sharing/
#
Loqi dym_cx meant to say: is there anything better than a distributed hash table for sharing data?
#
dym_cx xD
#
[kevinmarks] That's a bit of an open ended question. What kind of data, who gets to write it, do you need availability guarantees? Lots of dimensions
#
[kevinmarks] What is camlistore?
#
Loqi Camlistore is a blob based storage system written in Go that can store many types of files and data in a distributed fashion https://indiewebcamp.com/camlistore
#
kylewm kevinmarks: oh right, I don't mean anyone could log in as me, I mean I could log into Quill and start writing on twitter, without ever having granted Quill write permission to twitter
j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm it's the same situation now, but it looks better because it actually asks you to authorize when you hit the indieauth endpoint
#
kylewm which is also better because it updates your token, if you are on a service like Facebook wehre they expire every so often
#
[kevinmarks] So now my app could have nascar buttons for twitter etc and it would pass straight through?
#
[kevinmarks] Will it ask every time? Or is this just a clearer first time path?
#
kylewm it asks every time you log in, the way bridgy does
dym_cx joined the channel
#
@energyovertime RT @kevinmarks When you build in a SPOF to your process #indieweb https://twitter.com/AP/status/724294171826237440 (twitter.com/_/status/724325056277417984)
#
dym_cx what is microdata? as in its relation to microformats? ( https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/microdata.html#microdata )
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "microdata" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jd
#
dym_cx oh, nvm, "has been superseded by microformats2" (http://microformats.org/wiki/microdata), i just never heard of it
#
Loqi microdata)
#
dym_cx yes loki?
#
dym_cx s/loki/loqi/
#
Loqi dym_cx meant to say: yes loqi?
#
[kevinmarks] Microdata is a more complex way of adding metadata to html than microformats. There is no browser support for it. See http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html for a markup comparison
#
loqi.me created /Microdata (+217) "prompted by dym_cx https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-24/line/1461528175296 and dfn added by [kevinmarks]" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] Microformats 2 and Schema 2015-06-30
#
dym_cx ahm, how is http://microformats.org/wiki/jf2 different from activitystream?
#
Loqi jf2
#
[kevinmarks] Jf2 doesn't specify a vocabulary
#
[kevinmarks] It's a more naturally structured json mapping for the mf2 parsed output
#
[kevinmarks] (or simplified, normalised version of it like xray does)
#
dym_cx human-readable json. i can dig it.
#
dym_cx if i <link> a jf2 file full of posts ("db.json"), do i still have to render html-output on the server?
#
kylewm why would you do that?
#
kylewm (it sort of defeats the point of mf2 which is that the HTML is the source of truth .. and that it's less likely to rot than XML/JSON/etc. because people are actually looking at it)
#
dym_cx isnt HTML just a wrapper for a database of posts?
mlncn joined the channel
#
kylewm it can be, sure, doesn't have to be. the point is, it's the medium that we're using to share data with each other
#
kylewm i.e. we dont' have to use the same database
#
kylewm (note that Tantek's "database" is a set of HTML files with microformats)
#
dym_cx ok, but i html will be parsed and i already have the parser-output on hand – why do the same thing twice?
#
dym_cx s/but i/but if
#
Loqi dym_cx meant to say: ok, but if html will be parsed and i already have the parser-output on hand – why do the same thing twice?
#
kylewm why do you already have it on hand, i guess is my question
#
dym_cx coz i use it as a database
#
kylewm what if you want to use a different database in the future :P
#
kylewm html is good because lots of eyeballs will look at it and raise hell if something breaks
#
kylewm serving a .json side-file would have the same problems as an .xml side-file
j12t joined the channel
#
dym_cx isnt purpose of json is to be future-proof?
#
kylewm nooooo
#
kylewm heavens no :)
#
kylewm it's a good interchange format, and you're right that the standard is basically fixed and will never change
#
kylewm other people will always be able to parse your JSON into objects, but that doesn't mean they'll understand your vocab or structur
#
kylewm e
#
KartikPrabhu dym_cx: "isnt HTML just a wrapper for a database of posts?" No. I would argue that the HTML is the post and the database is just some plumbing that can be swapped out for other things like static storage, file-storage etc...
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu: bear left you a message on 4/22 at 12:42pm: if you can file an issue against ronkyuu with your case and I'll add authorship support to it http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-22/line/1461354161627
#
dym_cx ok, i see we have a chicken-and-egg situation
#
KartikPrabhu hmm no. I want people to read my posts. People use browsers to do that which render HTML
#
KartikPrabhu anything on top of that is an enhancement
#
dym_cx so is anthing underneath it as well?
#
KartikPrabhu readers don't care if my post is stored in MySQL, Mongo, static files
#
KartikPrabhu yes. anything underneath is plumbing
#
KartikPrabhu what is plumbing
snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi Plumbing in the context of the IndieWeb, refers to all the underlying code, backend setup, protocols, formats that is all merely there to support the design and user experience of a site, the actual user visible and interactive parts https://indiewebcamp.com/plumbing
#
KartikPrabhu just like I don't care what OS you use
#
KartikPrabhu as long as I can read your posts
#
dym_cx say my index is clientside-js-fillable blank page, but i care about microformats parsers&co – can i <link> a server rendered all-posts.html ?
#
KartikPrabhu if you have a server-rendered HTML why make your reader vivisble page JS-rendered in the first place?
#
jgerhold.de edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+447) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu what if I want to download some big JS library to read text on your site?
#
KartikPrabhu s/want/don't want
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: what if I don't want to download some big JS library to read text on your site?
#
kylewm I'm a little different on that point; I think we could use some exploration of how to interop with client-rendered sites ... I don't like the js;dr answer we have right now
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: what is a good use case for that other than "I want to use JS-rendering"?
#
dym_cx hm, i guess <noscript><meta http-equiv="refresh" content="1; all-posts.html"></noscript>
#
KartikPrabhu dym_cx: again what is the use-case?
#
kylewm KartikPrabhu: I could imagine client side rendering being a very inexpensive way to run a fancy site... serve js and data on the cheap, outsource processing to the client's cpus
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: [citation needed]
#
KartikPrabhu if you are running a big database on the backend i don't see how it is easier/cheaper
#
dym_cx we came back to having a json-file as a database and going in DRY
#
KartikPrabhu have HTML file as database then... again what is this doing to help the reader of the posts?
#
kylewm KartikPrabhu: i mean... it's one less thing, database + EC2 instance or just a database
#
kylewm (that was in re to how is it easier/cheaper)
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: but then you have to write/maintain the JS-rendering code so not really "one less thing"
#
kylewm sure, you have to write code either way
#
KartikPrabhu yup, which is why plumbing-centric arguments don't work ;)
#
KartikPrabhu if you remove some part of your plumbing stack you have to write another one to replace it anyway
#
kylewm the nice thing is the js-client-rendering code doesn't need to scale with the number of users
#
kylewm so I can rely on a big fancy database that scales well out of the box, and my code can be dumb, and i can serve it fast and cheap
#
KartikPrabhu if you are dealing with that amount of scale then you probably have an army of devs and lot of money too ;)
#
kylewm so like Wikipedia?
#
KartikPrabhu or google FB etc... for personal sites I don't see it
#
kylewm wikipedia unlike those others has a lot of users and not a lot of money or devs
#
KartikPrabhu sure but they still don't do JS-rendering and I haven't seen any suggestion that it will solve some problem they have
#
kylewm I concede that it's probably not necessary for personal sites
#
miklb voxpelli any chance you'll be working on your mcropub service @ next IWC?
#
kylewm but js;dr argues that it's a bad idea period and all sites that are client rendered should be ignored
#
KartikPrabhu yeah they are not curl-able so good luck getting any data from them
#
kylewm and also I write code in python because I like python and it's fun. if browser js is your thing, and you like it and it's fun, i say more power to you :)
#
voxpelli miklb: unfortunately won't be able to attend it :(
#
KartikPrabhu sure. So I'll leave it to JS-aficionados to solve this "problem"
#
KartikPrabhu if their solution is "I'll give you an HTML version to parse" then they should just give us the HTML version in the first place
#
miklb voxpelli no worries. I saw you mention you were busy with work again.
#
voxpelli miklb: yeah :/ but perhaps in end of May
#
kylewm KartikPrabhu: here's a client-rendered site that my friend runs http://cracktheplates.com/atlantaveganguide/
#
kylewm she updates it by editing http://cracktheplates.com/atlantaveganguide/js/data.js
#
miklb voxpelli I might start poking around your libraries to see if I could get an instance running on my VPS. Just need to figure out how to hook all the parts together. I'm not really familiar with node apps
#
kylewm I don't think that's an insane use of client-rendering
#
voxpelli miklb: it should be easy to get up and running on a free Heroku, that's what I'm using myself now
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: well I don't see why client-side is needed at all. The whole data.js file could simply be HTML
#
KartikPrabhu that way I don't have to download some JS stuff to see it
#
@grrreads ✌ @Reading "IndieWebCamp" https://www.reading.am/p/4g6o/https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/724343147724181504)
#
@grrreads ✌ @Reading "IndieWebCamp Nürnberg Demos 2016-04-17" https://www.reading.am/p/4g6n/http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiewebcampnuremberg2016demos.html (twitter.com/_/status/724343128161947651)
#
KartikPrabhu again, people can use JS-rendering if they want. But I have never seen a "need" for it
#
dym_cx IRC has very bad multi-threading support #meta
#
kylewm KartikPrabhu: but then she would have to edit that whole big template every time
#
KartikPrabhu instead of editing the whole big JS file?
#
sknebel kylewm: KartikPrabhu: or use a static site generator of some kind
#
kylewm sure, much less complicated
#
miklb voxpelli easier you think than on my VPS?
#
kylewm sknebel: yeah that would also work
#
sknebel IMHO, that's what they are perfect for
#
KartikPrabhu sknebel: yes that is what I was saying ;)
#
miklb has never forayed into Heroku either
#
kylewm heroku++
#
Loqi heroku has 2 karma
#
sknebel Maybe I should have tried to convince one of the tutors at uni to let me write a SSG in client-side javascript this semester...
#
sknebel get all the "install a bunch of stuff locally" out of the way
#
kylewm heh, hard to make client-side javascript write a bunch of files to disk isn't it?
#
sknebel to disk, yes
#
voxpelli miklb: Maybe, but should be easy anywhere
#
sknebel to dropbox or github or ...
#
sknebel not an issue
#
kylewm do dropbox/github allow CORS requests??
#
sknebel yeah
#
sknebel (the project the seminar would have been about already can do a lot of the necessary bits and pieces, but they were looking more for people extending the plumbing instead of building apps with it)
#
sknebel discussion successfully derailed :P
#
kylewm notices my inbox is filling up with exceptions from my site
#
dym_cx back to jf2 then, there is category[], but no tags[] ?
#
kylewm yeah category == tags in mf2
#
dym_cx ok.
#
kylewm oh wow, someone is trying to get into my server
#
kylewm Invalid URL '-1" OR 3*2<(0+5+967-967) -- ': No schema supplied.
#
kylewm maybe just running a vulnerability scan on /services/mf2util, weird
#
dym_cx Y U NO honeypot
#
www.svenknebel.de edited /User:Www.svenknebel.de (+210) "itches" (view diff)
#
dym_cx skebel: imagin chromebooks in schools, or other web-only phones/tablets/tvs – installing anything is impossible
#
sknebel quite a few people run their SSG in travis or other CI services
#
sknebel and that is why I want a client-side one to exist
#
Loqi gives sknebel a client
#
miklb what is SSG
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SSG" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Je
#
sknebel static site generator
#
sknebel sorry
#
dym_cx SolidStateGore
#
miklb ah. I use Travis to build my Jekyll site to deploy
#
sknebel SSG is /static_site_generator
#
loqi.me created /SSG (+34) "prompted by miklb https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-24/line/1461534055266 and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
j12t and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] You friend's vegan site could be munged into static html server side as easily
#
[kevinmarks] And even it would be crawl able and cacheable
#
bear finishes reading backscroll...
#
bear for me the biggest reason of all to avoid client side js for rendering of the content html is that I am often consuming the post from something other than a browser
#
bear having js to enhance the user experience, sure - but at the core it should be html+mf2
#
kylewm woo fun, i learned how to ban an ip address
#
kylewm kevinmarks: it could, but then she would have to run the generator every time she adds a new restaurant ... i don't know, i certainly wouldn't do it that way, but i don't think it's an invalid use-case
#
[kevinmarks] Sure, but that's a commit hook thing.
#
[kevinmarks] Or a server side task that uses Etag
#
KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: that sounds easy but think of people who don't know all those things
#
kylewm The goal of that project was to make a framework other people could adapt to other cities, not necessarily programmers.
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: uh oh, is it easier for those people to edit a JS variable?
#
KartikPrabhu not being snarky, genuine question :)
#
kylewm Easier than learning and writing HTML? yeah I would think
#
KartikPrabhu intersting
#
KartikPrabhu given that I find it hard to read JS objects
#
miklb seems gh-pages would be just as easy. Markdown files, can be edited in browser/committed.
#
[kevinmarks] A lot less forgiving
#
[kevinmarks] Put a stray quote in, js file breaks
#
KartikPrabhu yeah that is another thing, JS is very fragile that way
#
miklb heck, a base project could be set up and someone could fork/use without ever touching "code" or git.
#
sknebel kylewm: curious, where is that page hosted?
#
sknebel (e.g. if people suggest github pages I always wonder if getting the DNS etc to work isn't already to big an issue in some way for many, even with tutorials. on the other hand, most shared hosting requires an FTP-client etc as well)
#
miklb sknebel any more difficult than any other method of using a custom domain?
#
sknebel that is the question.
#
sknebel DNS is kinda scary, if you use shared hosting somewhere that's done for you
#
sknebel and I honestly have no idea how the UX for shared hosting nowadays is
#
miklb gh-pages is basically point your domain to the GitHub nameservers, add a file .CNAME with the custom domain to the directory, $profit?
#
sknebel yeah. means you now have two services, DNS config to do which often isn't nice and tons of features on GitHub to ignore
#
sknebel If I had it to explain to non-IT users I know, I'd expect getting them started on shared hosting with an FTP client would be easier
#
miklb sure. I'm not advocating it's for everyone, but for something that is browser based but not a big drag/drop service or wp.com it is an option. Also a gateway for someone who might want to eventually get their hands dirty
#
miklb at least that was my theory for building an indieweb friendly Jekyll model.
#
sknebel it is a good theory. I'm just curious what alternatives people use and why
#
miklb likewise. I'm new to this community, and one thing I've observed is people new to it @ IWC seemingly struggling to get their 1st site up and running.
#
sknebel I've seen quite a few succesfull tools that somehow use google docs as a backend
#
sknebel (for things like the restaurant website)
#
miklb interesting
peryan joined the channel
#
peryan My friend Emma Hodge introduced me to your group and I am wondering what are people's opinions of Sublime?
#
[kevinmarks] What is sublime?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sublime" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Jf
#
miklb resisted making a joke about the band :-)
#
sknebel Sublime the text editor?
#
KartikPrabhu peryan: welcome. feel free to use any text editor you find comfortable really
j12t and tantek joined the channel
#
kylewm sknebel: that site in particular is running on Digital Ocean for reasons
#
kylewm I mean "because reasons"
#
snarfed interesting, web scraping as a service: https://morph.io/
#
aaronpk heh, i'm gonna have to update Telegraph in order to pass the new webmention.rocks update test
#
aaronpk Telegraph does its own check to make sure the source links to target before even doing webmention discovery, so I can't send update webmentions when I remove a link right now
#
kylewm that same ip address continues to try to vulnerability scan me even though they are getting 403 for everything now
#
aaronpk okee dokee. who wants to try this one? https://webmention.rocks/update/2
#
Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Update Test #2