#indiewebcamp 2016-05-05

2016-05-05 UTC
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] It's more that 60 person chats you all got arbitrarily added to are a problem
#
[kevinmarks] Rather than rolling conversations
#
tantek kevinmarks the other "many person chat" antipattern I feel like we have both experienced was what some of the management at T'rati used to do
#
kylewm I keep getting added to Facebook groups I don't want to be in
#
tantek >:D
#
tantek kylewm: in other news, thanks for the JSON viewer test case - added to bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1268779
quails joined the channel
#
kylewm Cool cool
#
tantek kylewm did you follow the conversation yesterday with mblaney re: tombstones, u-uid matching?
#
tantek starting here: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-03#t1462334946923
#
tantek I'm thinking of implementing dt-deleted tombstones, as well as u-uid post IDs *without* the slug, so that even if I update the slug (or delete the post, blanking the slug), the post ID stays the same.
#
kylewm Yes more or less
#
tantek the use-case is for a /reader to automatically update its display of feed items to remove deleted items
#
kylewm That makes sense I think
#
tantek ok cool, that's enough verification for me to write it up as a brainstorm (before I implement)
#
tantek it does seem to add more weight to the "don't use slugs as essential parts of your permalinks" design preference for /URL_design
#
tantek oh look, 5 min to HWC - I should go downstairs and setup :)
[benatwork] joined the channel
#
[benatwork] +1,000,000 to don’t use slugs (sad sigh)
#
tantek slugs are fine as optional aspects of permalinks you redirect to
#
[benatwork] Right. But don’t use slugs as canonical identifiers
#
[benatwork] Cool URIs might not change, but 99% of URIs are decidedly uncool
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] I'm running a bit late - train notionally gets in at 6:27 so I'll be about 10-15 mins behind
#
[kevinmarks] Also, slugs are a bit of a problem for private posts
#
[kevinmarks] You need to make them articles with anodyne titles on both wp and known
#
[benatwork] +1. My attitude was to not make a distinction between removed pages and 404s, for privacy reasons, but I’m leaning towards tombstoning as an approach now
#
[kevinmarks] I need to write up CTHULU vs CRUD
#
gRegorLove Oh yeah, Happy Star Wars HWC Day
tantek and snarfed joined the channel
#
[benatwork] kevinmarks: please please please use that title
#
tantek kevinmarks, don't forget CDURU: http://tantek.com/2016/093/t1/indieweb-micropub-incrementalism-cduru
#
Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Based on #Indieweb #Micropub experience, #CRUD is an anachronism.
#
tantek HWC SF is good to go, projection setup verified
#
tantek How's LA and PDX doing?
#
[kevinmarks] Yes, it's a follow up to that
#
[kevinmarks] Delete is not enough to propagate
AndChat748001 joined the channel
#
tantek kevinmarks, for a public API yeah, but for client-server private API it may be
#
AndChat748001 see you SF folks tonight (IRC RSVP)
#
AndChat748001 (wow, that's the least useful username ever. This is npdoty.name.)
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] LA starts at 630
#
tantek nice
#
tantek npdoty what client are you using?
#
tantek kevinmarks, two key differences between CDURU and your CTHULU
#
tantek 1. CDURU actually models what Micropub does today in terms of API actions. CTHULU is a proposed model (maybe something will model after it someday, but nothing does today)
quails joined the channel
#
AndChat748001 AndChat is a mobile, Android IRC client
#
tantek 2. CDURU is more unique for web search results. Good luck getting up there in search results for CTHULU!
snarfed1 joined the channel
#
@CaptainKurtis RT @HongPong For better less corporate-rekt internets Portland OR peeps plz check #indieweb summit June 3-5 2016 http://2016.indieweb.org cc @rechelon (twitter.com/_/status/728023704773509120)
#
@domenicoperri #USERMEDIA domenicoperri starred aaronpk/webmention https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention #S42AT #invispide https://twitter.com/domenicoperri/status/728022667668815872/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728022667668815872)
#
kylewm aaronpk: fyi, broken image on https://aaronparecki.com/2013/10/13/4/realtime-indieweb-comments
#
Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Realtime IndieWeb Comments
#
tantek wonders if anyone else has gotten realtime indieweb comments to work
#
tantek considers hacking up tombstone prototype support in his h-feed
AndChat|748001 and npdoty joined the channel
#
tantek I'm thinking a tombstone h-entry needs nothing more than u-url (and u-uid if different) and dt-deleted.
#
tantek And perhaps for nicer display, SHOULD have p-name e.g. "Gone." and maybe p-content also "This post is gone."
#
tantek anything else?
#
tantek thinking of putting those into empty <data> elements
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Voxpelli's tool does real-time
#
tantek <data class="p-name" value="Gone."></data>
#
tantek getting started here at HWC SF
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] Looks like LA HWC is a club of one this week
#
[shaners] The biggness of the city makes meetups difficult
#
tantek https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160504/
#
Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
#
npdoty q+ on wide review of Webmention and security/privacy issues
#
tantek https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160429/
#
Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
torrorist1 joined the channel
#
npdoty q-
#
tantek note: https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160429/#security-considerations
#
Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
#
tantek benwerd: has two things
#
tantek one that he did
#
tantek one that he's doing
#
tantek thing he did, every page of his site has the new <meta http-equiv="Status" content="..." />
#
tantek the other thing he's playing with
#
tantek some people don't want a blog, just want a simple page
#
tantek single page sites are popular in China apparently
#
tantek just something where you can type in your name etc.
#
tantek something like an aboutme page
#
tantek npdoty: what's the use-case for the meta status?
#
tantek benwerd: static hosting
#
tantek so you can have a page that represents a 404, or a deleted, 410
#
tantek (KevinMarks arrives)
#
tantek npdoty: I've got something I'm working on
#
tantek I've been thinking about ephemerality
#
tantek of a URL
#
tantek there was sometime I wanted to show
#
tantek like academic writing
#
tantek I wanted to show a paper I was working on
#
tantek but the paper is not finished, and not to be made public, may have things I'm not supposed to be publishing on the web
#
tantek but if I put a link on the IRC channel it gets archive
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
tantek my idea: how about URL that says you can archive the URL, but it will only work for the next hour
#
npdoty https://github.com/npdoty/ephemerurl
#
tantek so I did a little PHP to implement this (^^^)
#
tantek so for any URL on my site, I can change it to add /until730pm and that will give me back a new short URL with a random ID on the end
#
npdoty https://npdoty.name/u/cudo
#
tantek in the next 15 min it will redirect
#
tantek but after 7pm the URL is gone
benwerd joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: so I make a new short url with some random address like https://npdoty.name/writing/craftsman/ that will expire in 15 minutes (twitter.com/_/status/728037818199584768)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: Implemented in a little php, I can now change the URL to include /until-730pm, and that will give back a new short URL (twitter.com/_/status/728037733705338880)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: how about URL that says you can archive the URL, but it will only work for the next hour (twitter.com/_/status/728037686855008256)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: So it would be useful to have a URL that is only valid for some period of time, e.g. 1 hour. (twitter.com/_/status/728037599273750528)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: I do a lot of academic writing; I want to share my writing of incomplete drafts that are not ready to be public (twitter.com/_/status/728037486514085888)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: The last couple of days, I've been thinking about ephemerality, in particular ephemerality of a URL. (twitter.com/_/status/728037337570086912)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: There's no standard way to statically archive a page's return code. The more I'm thinking about it,maybe incl all the headers (twitter.com/_/status/728037133265608705)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: A lot of people have static hosting like GitHub pages, which makes it hard to do things like return "410 GONE" for deletes (twitter.com/_/status/728036672567390209)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: What's the reasoning behind the http-equiv stuff? @benwerd: means static sites are not penalized in webmention protocol (twitter.com/_/status/728036459089907714)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @benwerd: So I'm kinda working on a little version of a single page generator that helps you set it up, also gives you a zip. (twitter.com/_/status/728036312016637954)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @benwerd: Another I'm sort of playing with, some people don't want to have a blog, just want a page about them... (twitter.com/_/status/728035962694053889)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @benwerd: 2 things. the first, every single page of my site now has the meta http-equiv tag version of the HTTP response codes. (twitter.com/_/status/728035882205388800)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: I wanted to ask about doing a security review of the Webmention spec (twitter.com/_/status/728035591724650496)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: Webmention spec has reached 0 open issues, is basically ready to go from Working Draft to Candidate Recommendation (twitter.com/_/status/728035262178185220)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: (twitter.com/_/status/728035055482880000)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: @aaronpk has published a new version of the W3C Micropub spec: https://t.co/xCHoj9rG15. now 3 impls that Delete and Update (twitter.com/_/status/728035053612244993)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: welcome to the homebrew website club, May the 4th Be With You edition! (twitter.com/_/status/728034839937585152)
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Micropub is a W3C working draft for a standard API that posts content to a domain. https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ #indieweb #socialmedia #openweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/micropub-is-a-w3c-working-draft-for-a-standard-api
#
kylewm handing off scribe duties to KevinMarks
#
KevinMarks I'll take an archive
#
KevinMarks was that stuff before I arrived?
tantek joined the channel
#
@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: you might have a need where you want to send it out to certain people but only to you afterwards (twitter.com/_/status/728041610936717317)
#
@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: expiring content is useful - it doesn't look like noise in your stream later - like future bar plans (twitter.com/_/status/728041609720430592)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: for stuff that is short term you block search engines, if it's longterm you may want more (twitter.com/_/status/728041443630133248)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: should you block search engines from ephemeral posts? (twitter.com/_/status/728040988833402880)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: you could also use this for a deadman switch style post that appears after a time (twitter.com/_/status/728040900987899905)
#
@sikkdays Edmonton really needs an IndieWebCamp or Homebrew Website Club. http://indiewebcamp.com/ A focus on open, rather than $tartups. (twitter.com/_/status/728040820129980416)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: you could also set the published time in the future to create ephemeral posts (twitter.com/_/status/728040706888110080)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: you might have a need where you want to send it out to certain people but only to you afterwards (twitter.com/_/status/728040348212178945)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: expiring content is useful - it doesn't look like noise in your stream later - like future bar plans (twitter.com/_/status/728040221305122817)
#
@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: if I give out a capability URL like this, then you still have the abiilty to resolve it (twitter.com/_/status/728040163851505664)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: do I want to set the delete time to 0, or do I want to set a deleted date so I can undo it (twitter.com/_/status/728040027763118083)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: is it a proper delete? if there's ever a timezone bug will it reappear. (twitter.com/_/status/728039916043644928)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: what I realised was that I can set the deleted date in the future so it would vanish like an indie snapchat (twitter.com/_/status/728039799031013376)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I was hacking in a bar with @benwerd to get deleted working - I added a dt-deleted date to hide the post (twitter.com/_/status/728039683154956289)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: I do a 307 which is supposed to be temporary redirect, not sue how that differs from 302 (twitter.com/_/status/728039566712684544)
#
@benwerd Micropub is a W3C working draft for a standard API that posts content to a domain. https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ #indieweb #socialmedia #openweb (twitter.com/_/status/728039136368549889)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: if I give out a capability URL like this, then you still have the abiilty to resolve it (twitter.com/_/status/728038880960774144)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @t: one challenge, I can't tell from looking at the page that it isn't meant to be public (twitter.com/_/status/728038783648714752)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: this is like Flickr guest passes - a short term bypass of a login (twitter.com/_/status/728038663439945729)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: (in re: what if someone archives the final URL?) it's a privacy rather than a security measure, wouldnt share w attacker (twitter.com/_/status/728038531109621760)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: but if I instapaper it, then it gets sent to @pinboard, so it it archived further (twitter.com/_/status/728038355817119745)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: yes, so if I trust you but I want it to go away in time form the irc, then I can use this (twitter.com/_/status/728038209234604032)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: so if someone resolves the short url they can get to the content? (twitter.com/_/status/728037954766114816)
#
@kylewmahan #indieweb @npdoty: So for example, this URL will only work for the next 15 minutes https://npdoty.name/u/cudo (twitter.com/_/status/728037929570992128)
#
KevinMarks is loqi lagged?
#
Loqi grins profusely
benwerd joined the channel
#
kylewm KevinMarks: here're the notes from earlier https://gist.github.com/kylewm/d617cb5487cf3638bfb33ee28d4ec733
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: so we create a set of map polygons that are the intersections of the constituency boundaries (twitter.com/_/status/728045393406271488)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: because congressional committees specialise, if you can connect with constituents of the members you can connect (twitter.com/_/status/728045079814885376)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: if a politician discovers a constituent cares about the issue, they care instantly (twitter.com/_/status/728044931223302144)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: so you can make a post that refers to your political constituencies without identifying you (twitter.com/_/status/728044822431404032)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: politicians are very sensitive to constitutents, so we have a mapping from jurisdictions to a string (twitter.com/_/status/728044700473671684)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: I'm building a tool to help you manage politicians (twitter.com/_/status/728044548488876033)
#
@Valerie_Janelle RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I really like the mute function on twitter but I forget to unmute people whoa re bing noisy for an hour (twitter.com/_/status/728044344276623361)
#
@WillaCassandra_ RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I really like the mute function on twitter but I forget to unmute people whoa re bing noisy for an hour (twitter.com/_/status/728044342682787840)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: and it mutes him for an hour (twitter.com/_/status/728043505583431680)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: so I made https://quiettime.xyz/ and I put in @kevinmarks because he is tweeting too much right now (twitter.com/_/status/728043464634585090)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I really like the mute function on twitter but I forget to unmute people whoa re bing noisy for an hour (twitter.com/_/status/728043152565800961)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: webpages have cache expiry timestamps as well (twitter.com/_/status/728042214509690881)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: email already have expiry headers - not sure anyone uses it (twitter.com/_/status/728042084872114176)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you delete a post and put a tombstone in your feed, how long do you leave it up there? 24 hours? longer (twitter.com/_/status/728041898980593664)
#
@kylewmahan @dariusdunlap here's the info on rel=pgpkey -- you can even use it to sign in to indieauth! https://indieauth.com/gpg (twitter.com/_/status/728041675923148800)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: is there a way to tell google that it is volatile? There is a change frequency notation (twitter.com/_/status/728041668251926528)
benwerd, miklb and jfrndz joined the channel
#
tantek @zoeschiffer do constituents get to see this feedback?
#
tantek KevinMarks: ^^^
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Micropub" https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/
benwerd joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we also have a $1000 fund from an anonymous donor to fund underrepresented groups to come (twitter.com/_/status/728048984690937857)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the 6th annual indieweb summit in portland is at http://2016.indieweb.org - buy a ticket for $5 or send an indie RSVP for free (twitter.com/_/status/728048790477930496)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Also, this weekend is the second Indiewebcamp Dusseldorf, which has about 60 people coming (twitter.com/_/status/728048512944967680)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you want to implement a deleted post (twitter.com/_/status/728048404866142208)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: so the slug should not be part of the unique identifier (twitter.com/_/status/728048200792330240)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you delete a post you shouls probably delete a slug - the part of the url that has words from the post (twitter.com/_/status/728048122048434176)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I have a small demo that is only working on my laptop - this is a deleted post on my site (twitter.com/_/status/728048002112311296)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: a previous thought along these lines: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2002/08/blogthevote2002usa.html (twitter.com/_/status/728047826442293248)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: we could aggregate this for the constituents as well as the politicians - so they are tracking numbers too (twitter.com/_/status/728047474288562177)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @ZoeSchiffer: do constituents get to see this feedback? (twitter.com/_/status/728047352121073664)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: instead of the politicians being the owner of the district, theya re the agent of the voter (twitter.com/_/status/728047291366580224)
#
@Nadreck RT @benwerd Micropub is a W3C working draft for a standard API that posts content to a domain. https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ #indieweb #socialmedia #openweb (twitter.com/_/status/728047098289999873)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: every local secretary of state maintains the voter file of addresses of registered voters and party affiliation (twitter.com/_/status/728047054338068480)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: so far it's been impossible to be effective politically without exposing your address (twitter.com/_/status/728046905062739968)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: you could also make this use indieauth to connect your website with your location zone (twitter.com/_/status/728046718932127745)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: if we have your address, we can get the latlong, and then resolve to a constituency powerzone string (twitter.com/_/status/728046319458238464)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: politicians love twitter because it lets them be broadcasters, we could give a backchannel that points to constituencies (twitter.com/_/status/728046170480750592)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: if you go to http://newgov.net/demomap/index.html you can find the powerzone for your address (twitter.com/_/status/728045900795400193)
#
@kevinmarks #indieweb @brittb: I had to draw a boxes an arrows diagram to understand this - I want to see if people want this represented (twitter.com/_/status/728045725876142084)
npdoty and benwerd joined the channel
#
jfrndz.com uploaded /File:05042016HWCSF_groupphoto.JPG "Group photo of the May 04, 2016 Homebrew Website Club"
tantek joined the channel
#
jfrndz.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:05042016HWCSF groupphoto.JPG]]"" (view diff)
#
GWG I have booked tickets to Portland
#
jfrndz.com edited /events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club (+263) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
#
@jimpick RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the 6th annual indieweb summit in portland is at http://2016.indieweb.org - buy a ticket for $5 or send an indie RSVP for free (twitter.com/_/status/728049514884399104)
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF : http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-04.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-sf-hwc2016-05-04html-indieweb
#
gRegorLove Yay, GWG!
#
gRegorLove When do you arrive?
#
GWG midnight Thursday night.
torrorist joined the channel
#
gRegorLove Ouch
#
GWG gRegorLove: Why ouch?
#
gRegorLove Just a late flight. That's 3am your time.
#
gRegorLove Maybe you're a night owl :)
#
GWG gRegorLove: Look up the choices for nonstops between JFK and Portland
shiflett joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF : http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-04.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/728054524032602112)
#
@veganstraightedge Tonight at Homebrew Website Club LA, I added /new to @DarkMatterAppCo to publish any post type from one page. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/728060482263863296)
rMdes_ and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek GWG congrats on getting your flights booked!
#
tantek.com edited /events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club (+108) "/* Notes */ Kevin Marks notes! and link to start of meetup in IRC log" (view diff)
npdoty and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek continuing from https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-04#t1462411882236 - tombstone markup in feed ...
#
tantek something like: <div class="h-entry"><data class="p-name" value="Gone."></data><data class="p-content" value="This post is gone."></data><a href="/2016/123/t3/" class="u-url u-uid"><time class="dt-deleted" datetime="2016-05-03 17:00"></time></a></div>
chrisbergr and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiebarbie.png
#
tantek so tempted to hotlink that from /Getting_Started
#
tantek I think I'm going to display:none my tombstones because apparently even without content I have CSS which makes space for h-entry elements
#
tantek ok I have in-stream tombstones working locally
benwerd joined the channel
#
tantek good evening benwerd
#
benwerd good evening
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 3/5 at 8:52am: we need an indie event for next week's HWC SF - could one of you add one? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco (already a FB event there) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-05/line/1457196731818
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 3/21 at 7:58am: I wonder how we could setup an indieweb studio at a university that would embrace a plurality of approaches and avoid the implicit (often academic) silo or monoculture assumptions re: http://werd.io/2016/last-night-i-dreamt-of-an-indieweb-studio-hosted-at http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-21/line/1458572291777
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: I won't be here 2016-06-15 and 29 - could you pick an SF location for those two HWCs? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-15-homebrew-website-club and https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-29-homebrew-website-club ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-30/line/1459371985246
#
tantek uhoh
#
benwerd Oh no
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 4/3 at 4:55pm: could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-06-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco and update the page there? Thanks much! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-03/line/1459727714282
#
benwerd As discussed at Homebrew tonight: https://github.com/idno/Known/pull/1426
#
tantek my sad pleas
#
benwerd I apologize
#
tantek clearly I was using the wrong communication protocol ;)
#
tantek I just got in-stream tombstones for deleted posts working locally
#
benwerd This reminds me to fix benatwork
#
tantek "Can't you hear, can't you hear the tumblr"
dogada joined the channel
#
tantek benwerd, I'm still puzzling over how to make pronouns work internationally
#
benwerd yeah, that's fair
#
tantek I suppose that's why we decided to experiment with p-x-*
#
[kevinmarks] You mean multilingually
tantek joined the channel
#
tantek kevinmarks, it's a usability challenge. I doubt anyone would want to have to specify their pronouns in all langauges
KartikPrabhu, Pierre-O, j12t, KevinMarks and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] yes, I just meant that the boundaries are linguistic not national
loic_m joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Tonight’s Homebrew Website Club SF! #indieweb
#
tantek Thanks Loqi :)
#
Loqi you're welcome
#
tantek.com edited /events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club (+127) "/* Notes */ summary post" (view diff)
j12t joined the channel
#
@jkphl #IndieWeb enthusiasts: We just started the @IndieWebCampDE account for #DACH focused announcements & events. Please follow us there. :) (twitter.com/_/status/728135761392902145)
#
@IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/728134904261713920)
j4y_funabashi joined the channel
#
@webrocker RT @jkphl #IndieWeb enthusiasts: We just started the @IndieWebCampDE account for #DACH focused announcements & events. Please follow us there. :) (twitter.com/_/status/728136643056574467)
#
@hmans RT @jkphl #IndieWeb enthusiasts: We just started the @IndieWebCampDE account for #DACH focused announcements & events. Please follow us there. :) (twitter.com/_/status/728141558579482624)
#
@bastianallgeier RT @jkphl #IndieWeb enthusiasts: We just started the @IndieWebCampDE account for #DACH focused announcements & events. Please follow us there. :) (twitter.com/_/status/728141298096480256)
#
jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (+1077) (view diff)
#
jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+341) "/* RSVPs from Facebook */" (view diff)
#
@btconf RT @jkphl If you're attending @btconf anyway, you should definitely consider joining in here as well! #indieweb https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464 (twitter.com/_/status/728150626996117504)
#
@jkphl If you're attending @btconf anyway, you should definitely consider joining in here as well! #indieweb https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464 (twitter.com/_/status/728150517885493248)
#
@IndieWebCampDE Ãœbermorgen startet das 2-tägige #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — noch sind ein paar Plätze frei! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728149477517758464)
#
@openSUSE RT @IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/728149145425354754)
rMdes joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "going to the 6th annual IndieWeb Summit! 2016-06-03…05
nitot joined the channel
#
jkphl.is edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+178) "/* Monthly */" (view diff)
#
@sl007 @publictorsten Hier wären noch 4 Plätze frei für morgen : https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf – Alles gratis, keine Negativzinsen – spread the word ... (twitter.com/_/status/728152312586248192)
#
@misprintedtype RT @IndieWebCampDE Ãœbermorgen startet das 2-tägige #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — noch sind ein paar Plätze frei! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728151798746218496)
#
@wwnrw RT @IndieWebCampDE Ãœbermorgen startet das 2-tägige #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — noch sind ein paar Plätze frei! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728151348634476545)
#
@workingdraft RT @IndieWebCampDE Ãœbermorgen startet das 2-tägige #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — noch sind ein paar Plätze frei! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728151348626137088)
#
jkphl.is edited /events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (+81) (view diff)
#
jkphl.is edited /Events (+627) "/* May */" (view diff)
#
jkphl.is edited /events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (+366) "/* Where */" (view diff)
#
tantek jkphl++ for starting IWC Nürnberg!!!!
#
Loqi jkphl has 3 karma
#
tantek s/IWC/HWC
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: jkphl++ for starting HWC Nürnberg!!!!
kerozene joined the channel
#
@jkphl As recently announced: I'll start a Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg as of May 25th. Join in! +@egoexpress #indieweb https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728159794587000833 (twitter.com/_/status/728160368204251138)
#
@IndieWebCampDE ✨ Schritt für Schritt ins IndieWeb: Am 25.5.2016 erster Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg, ab dann 2-wtl. / monatlich! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/728159794587000833)
#
@RomaoSan RT @IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/728159076471865345)
tantek and squeakytoy joined the channel
#
@wstephenson RT @IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/728167354853625857)
nitot joined the channel
#
petermolnar !tell snarfed I'm seeing strange issues with bridgy flickr; example: https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1462445977&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyRAsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIjZ0YWc6ZmxpY2tyLmNvbSwyMDEzOjI2NzM1NTY5MzIyX2xpa2VkX2J5XzEzNjE4NjcxNUBOMDUM and the problem is here: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/flickr/36003160@N08/26735569322/136186715@N05
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
@ShivenDave RT @IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/728180463903199233)
#
@bastianallgeier RT @IndieWebCampDE Ãœbermorgen startet das 2-tägige #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — noch sind ein paar Plätze frei! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728178381288841216)
j12t, nitot, ben_thatmustbeme, cyberjar09, John_Duh and hs0ucy joined the channel
#
@jgmac1106 There is a sweet spot for learning to be found somewhere between #openscience, #indieweb, and #indieedtech. Three communities share so much (twitter.com/_/status/728205529219223552)
shiflett joined the channel
#
@jkphl ☑️ So ... ticking boxes before my leave to DUS tomorrow. Very much looking forward to meeting some of you @indiewebcamp / @btconf very soon! (twitter.com/_/status/728210399015936000)
mlncn joined the channel
#
jkphl.is edited /events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (+37) "/* Nürnberg */" (view diff)
nitot and tantek joined the channel
#
jkphl.is edited /events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (+20) "/* Nürnberg */" (view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed !tell petermolnar oops! that's a bug. fixed now. thank you for the report!
#
Loqi snarfed: petermolnar left you a message 3 hours, 21 minutes ago: I'm seeing strange issues with bridgy flickr; example: https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1462445977&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyRAsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIjZ0YWc6ZmxpY2tyLmNvbSwyMDEzOjI2NzM1NTY5MzIyX2xpa2VkX2J5XzEzNjE4NjcxNUBOMDUM and the problem is here: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/flickr/36003160@N08/26735569322/136186715@N05 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-05/line/1462446075116
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
snarfed !tell petermolnar well, fixed on bridgy's end at least - https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/flickr/36003160@N08/26735569322/136186715@N05 works now - but your site still responds with the same 404, "can't find target entry for https://petermolnar.eu/chengdu-eastern-suburb-memory-5/". does your webmention receiver maybe not support your photo posts?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
hongpong joined the channel
#
petermolnar snarfed checking
#
Loqi petermolnar: snarfed left you a message 8 minutes ago: oops! that's a bug. fixed now. thank you for the report! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-05/line/1462458137691
#
Loqi petermolnar: snarfed left you a message 3 minutes ago: well, fixed on bridgy's end at least - https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/flickr/36003160@N08/26735569322/136186715@N05 works now - but your site still responds with the same 404, "can't find target entry for https://petermolnar.eu/chengdu-eastern-suburb-memory-5/". does your webmention receiver maybe not support your photo posts? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-05/line/1462458447076
jacus, sonicrocketman and nitot joined the channel
#
petermolnar snarfed sorted; we both had bugs :)
shiflett joined the channel
#
kylewm snarfed: where was the bug?
nitot joined the channel
#
snarfed kylewm: bridgy's was my fault, from a recent optimization
hongpong joined the channel
#
snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/commit/f823e413dcb2060532dcaedaca3aeb22f84efa62 didn't pass fetch_likes, etc but needed to
#
snarfed petermolnar: glad to hear it!
#
@jeffubois @kevinmarks @tantek maybe of interest to POSSE / Indieweb? http://www.decentralizedweb.net/ (twitter.com/_/status/728239798671048704)
shiflett, M-kegan and snarfed joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks @jeffubois @tantek would you be interested in speakers on #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/728245999798378496)
wolftune joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "IndieWeb Summit 2016 - Portland, Oregon" http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance
#
KevinMarks do the 'decentralized' links on http://www.decentralizedweb.net/ load for you?
snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "IndieWeb in the Sunshine" by Peter Rukavina http://ruk.ca/content/indieweb-sunshine
#
snarfed PSA: some of bridgy's backfeed plumbing has changed substantially recently, mostly upgrading facebook API to 2.6 but also other parts/silos. please let us know if you see anything weird, wrong, or missing!
#
snarfed petermolnar++ for reporting one bug already
#
Loqi petermolnar has 20 karma
tantek joined the channel
#
@adactioLinks IndieWeb Summit 2016 - Portland, Oregon http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance (twitter.com/_/status/728257981381513218)
#
@ruk "IndieWeb in the Sunshine" http://ruk.ca/content/indieweb-sunshine (twitter.com/_/status/728261807434039296)
[dariusdunlap] joined the channel
#
[dariusdunlap] That “Decentralized Web” conference at the Internet Archive looks very interesting. Quick scan of related docs linked on the “Learn More” page… seems they are solving different problems from IndieWeb.
#
[dariusdunlap] kevinmarks: You mean the three under “Find us on the Decentralized Web”? Work for me.
barnabywalters joined the channel
#
barnabywalters one of my friends made this awesome travel post for her upcoming Germany holiday, presenting it as a tour poster: http://tine.pagekite.me/?viewDetailed=00247
#
Loqi Going to Germany!
#
barnabywalters (incidentally, Christina is one of the few people I know actually hosting her website on a personal computer she owns, via pagekite. Her site‘s hosted on her laptop and goes down if she doesn’t have an internet connection)
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /travel (+249) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added Christina’s travel plan presentation" (view diff)
[benatwork] joined the channel
#
[benatwork] This post about OAuth 2.0 and TAuth has some interesting discussion about TLS that might be relevant for some indieweb protocols. https://blog.teller.io/2016/04/26/tauth.html
hs0ucy joined the channel
#
bear That Teller post mirrors what huenverse also disliked about OAuth2 and why he started working on a replacement for OAuth 1 and 2
#
@scott_gruber Anyone going this year? I’m very tempted. IndieWeb Summit 2016 - Portland, Oregon http://2016.indieweb.org http://2016.indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/728273222425157633)
gRegorLove, j12t, snarfed and miklb joined the channel
#
@jkphl Too bad also *bald-headed* straight white male is not exactly an underrepresented group. I'd love to be there! 👴 http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance (twitter.com/_/status/728279031221780480)
#
@PetraGregorova It's almost that time of the year when Indie Web is coming back to Portland http://2016.indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/728277972906450946)
#
@susanjrobertson Hmmm, this is tempting and in my town: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016 I have some things on my list that are stumping me, hmmmmm. ht @adactio (twitter.com/_/status/728276928214409216)
wolcen_, Pierre-O and j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm ugh, there's that one post on StackOverflow that suggests disabling SSL verification for any python-requests problem
#
kylewm wish I could have that removed, or at least a giant red box put around it like "do not do this'
uranther joined the channel
#
bret i can down vote it
#
bret where is the post?
#
@rn_rocks RT @IndieWebCampDE Ãœbermorgen startet das 2-tägige #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — noch sind ein paar Plätze frei! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728149477517758464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728286403973550080)
#
@SheSaysBrighton Reckon YOU should be representing @indiewebcamp but can’t afford the costs to Portland? Apply here: http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance #womenintech (twitter.com/_/status/728284823463268352)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Guest_List () "(-790) remove duplicate (incorrect) event/venue information" (view diff)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Don't client certs just move the bearer problem to the cert?
#
[kevinmarks] He says the cert has never left his laptop, but that may not be as obviously true for a mobile user.
#
aaronpk catches up
#
aaronpk [kevinmarks]: the difference is with a client cert, you're not sending the private key to the server, so there's no way it can be intercepted because of skipping the SSL verification like in the bearer token example
#
aaronpk client certs for API calls like this aren't crazy
#
aaronpk apple has been doing it for years with their push notification service
#
aaronpk their new http/2 API uses it too
dogada joined the channel
#
aaronpk in other news, I just built a "media endpoint" for p3k, and made Quill use it for uploading photos
#
@dkreuz RT @jkphl #IndieWeb enthusiasts: We just started the @IndieWebCampDE account for #DACH focused announcements & events. Please follow us there. :) (twitter.com/_/status/728291273241731072)
#
kylewm how does that work? a separate endpoint outside of the micropub endpoint?
#
aaronpk yeah
#
aaronpk all it does is accept a multipart file upload and return a url
#
aaronpk then you use that url in the micropub request
#
kylewm how does quill discover the second endpoint?
#
aaronpk another link tag
#
aaronpk tho i'm thinking about making those come back in token verification
#
bear indieconfig?
#
aaronpk i thought that was a browser thing?
#
bear oh, I thought it was just a way to describe what services an indieweb site allows
#
voxpelli what is mp-config?
#
Loqi mp-config is a method of using a query to a micropub endpoint to allow you indie website to discover user support for webactions https://indiewebcamp.com/mp-config
#
voxpelli ^ that's the micropub-alternative for indie-config that one can chose to use instead of indie-config
#
bear voxpelli++ for knowing what I was asking when I didn't
#
Loqi voxpelli has 75 karma
#
aaronpk aha
j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm what ifyou posted a multi-part message to the micropub endpoint with h=file or something?
#
KevinMarks voxpelli++ for dynamic webmention updates
#
voxpelli aaronpk: come back as part of token verification? isn't the token verification performed outside of the micropub endpoint?
#
Loqi voxpelli has 76 karma
#
KevinMarks as demoed last night
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: :)
#
aaronpk voxpelli: yes but that *could* be how you find the micropub endpoint in the first place
#
KevinMarks which reminds me, I need to isolate the delete issue
#
KevinMarks (deleting a comment in known didn't remove it from webmention.herokuapp.com )
#
voxpelli aaronpk: yeah, but if the micropub endpoint itself wants to advertise features or endpoints it should be done within itself
#
aaronpk yes, but the media endpoint isn't necessarily a feature of the micropub endpoint
#
KevinMarks not sure if that is known not sending deletes or wm not understanding them (or indeed both)
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: proper 410 deletes are unfortunately not yet implemented, deletes only happen when a pinged posts no longer mentions the post
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: I think the code currently handles all 4xx codes as 404
#
@scott_gruber I just registered for IndieWeb Summit 2016 https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/summit-2016 (twitter.com/_/status/728297809716240384)
#
voxpelli aaronpk: it feels like in majority of cases it should be up to the micropub endpoint to communicate where it prefers images to be uploaded though?
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /events/2016-05-11-homebrew-website-club (+74) "Add meetup.com to HWC LA" (view diff)
#
aaronpk maybe
#
aaronpk tho it presents an interesting opportunity for ownyourgram
#
voxpelli one could support discovery in many places, but if one were to pick just one then making it through the micropub endpoint would probably be the one I pick
#
aaronpk the assumption of using a media endpoint is that it's actually just a temporary location for uploaded images (this is how the Twitter API works)
#
aaronpk if the image isn't "used" in a post then the media endpoint can delete it after a while
#
voxpelli (would be generally interesting to have a standard way for discovery of extended functionality in micropub endpoints )
#
aaronpk so the micropub endpoint should actually go download the image from the media endpoint and store it in a permanent location
#
kylewm kevinmaks: let me try commenting and deleting from red wind
#
aaronpk which means, ownyourgram could just send instagram's photo URL in the request and the micropub endpoint would download it itself
#
voxpelli aaronpk: supporting "uploads" through URL:s is a good concept independently of the media uploads
#
aaronpk right, which is why i kind of like that the media endpoint is not "part of" the micropub endpoint
#
kylewm KevinMarks: voxpelli: the delete webmention sent and awe said it was accepted, but it doesn't look like it deleted http://www.kevinmarks.com/ephemeral.html
#
Loqi ephemeral 2016-05-04
#
kylewm KevinMarks: voxpelli: lol, I just got to the part of the history were voxpelli said 410 deletes weren't supported yet :P sorry
#
voxpelli kylewm: a 202 Accepted just means that the ping passed the most basic of verifications (eg. has a valid target and valid syntax)
#
KevinMarks but webmention.herokuapp.com supports update, so CTHULU would work by tombstoning it
#
KevinMarks (it just dynamcially accepted an edit to http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/evanescent-comments-are-the-new-hot-thing )
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] evanescent comments are the new hot thing, but hard to get right
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: yeah, as long as the link is removed but a 200 is returned it should work
#
voxpelli aaronpk: perhaps not as part of the micropub endpoint, but the discovery should probably be within the endpoint
#
KevinMarks ah, but if i remove the link Known doesn't send the webmention
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: it should, whenever a link is removed it should send an update ping to the removed link
#
KevinMarks and mention-tech won't send it on either as it doesn't see the link
#
KevinMarks deleting is hard
#
voxpelli aaronpk: I would like my micropub endpoint to provide discovery of such a thing for Quill without having to implement any other service (especially as it could make a micropub endpoint simpler)
#
aaronpk without having to implement any other service? not sure i understand
#
KevinMarks kyle's one just vanished for me
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
bear hey all folks who run their own web servers... another OpenSSL CVE landed -- https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv/20160503.txt
#
bear the tl;dr is to upgrade your openssl version
#
@wpmarbellaorg Trackbacks, pingbacks y webmentions http://wprincipiante.es/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ vía @wprincipiante https://twitter.com/wpmarbellaorg/status/728299536322531328/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728299536322531328)
#
voxpelli aaronpk: the token verification doesn't happen against the micropub endpoint, right? so if the discovery happens as part of token verification then I can't add discovery for anything currently
#
aaronpk oh gotcha
#
aaronpk yes
#
aaronpk you're using tokens.indieauth.com?
#
voxpelli simple solution would just be to recommend Micropub clients to always do a GET to "/" on the micropub endpoint – that would both enable verification of token + discovery of extensions
#
voxpelli aaronpk: yes, I think most people are, no?
#
aaronpk most? not sure
#
voxpelli many at least :)
#
aaronpk p3k has a built-in one now, pretty sure kylewm has his own
#
aaronpk i just realized, quill doesn't actually have a separate token verification step. it gets an access token from the token endpoint and then assumes it can use it
#
aaronpk which IIRC is the way that the OAuth 2 group recommends doing it
#
kylewm I defer to indieauth for auth but have my own access token (not sure why :P)
#
kylewm seems like most silo APIs have something equivalent to twitter's /user/verify_credentials endpoint that returns info about the currently logged in user
#
aaronpk the other reason I'm thinking about letting the token endpoint tell the client where the micropub endpoint is, is it would let me have multiple micropub endpoints for different purposes and i could use different ones with different clients
#
aaronpk while using the same ID (aaronparecki.com)
#
kylewm I have definitely heard that request before
#
aaronpk i want to do that once i finally replace my use of flickr
#
voxpelli I have made that request many times before :)
#
aaronpk re: TAuth from earlier... https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/oUKk1yucD4XDZTXlFks0p1Oh4RU
#
voxpelli My proposal was to enable separate discovery of identity and micropub endpoint – having an optional secondary field for identity if a site only has discovery data for a micropub endpoint
#
aaronpk I'll get back to that part later. in the mean time, I do think it makes sense for a micropub endpoint to be able to publish info about it, i'll experiment with making it return the media endpoint now
#
voxpelli aaronpk: seems like the behavior of a plain GET to "/" is unspecified in the current Micropub draft?
#
aaronpk correct
#
aaronpk (not to "/", but to the endpoint)
#
voxpelli seems to have been some thoughts on the wiki to make it verify the token + provide some status/discovery data
#
voxpelli making it just return 200/4xx + link-headers would be a very minimal way to achieve that if one wants to avoid defining some special response format
#
kylewm fwiw, i don't hate the idea of having the media endpiont as a separate link-rel
#
aaronpk on an unrelated note, think we can sell 30 of these in the next 2 weeks? https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-05-12-15-01.png
#
kylewm yes!
#
gRegorLove Ooh. I'm in.
#
voxpelli kylewm: I like that idea, just want it to be attached to a micropub response :)
#
aaronpk I can make them slightly cheaper if we increase the minimum order to 50
#
aaronpk (thanks to shaners for the new logo!)
[jgarber] joined the channel
#
[jgarber] aaronpk: Count me in on a t-shirt.
#
aaronpk sweet, there's gonna be a teespring campaign to take orders
#
aaronpk I can get them down to $15.75 if we order 50!
#
aaronpk (0 profit margin)
#
gRegorLove So new logo is official? Launching it at the summit?
#
aaronpk yep!
#
gRegorLove shaners++ for the new logo. Love it.
#
Loqi shaners has 37 karma
#
voxpelli aaronpk: I'm in on a t-shirt, make sure there's some noise when the page is up so I don't miss it :)
#
bear aaronpk - are they available in 5X (the tshirts) ?
#
aaronpk https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp
#
kylewm 2XL is the largest I see on the page :/
#
bear :(
#
kylewm aaronpk: does it help if I select "pick up from seller in PDX" or do they handle the shipping?
#
aaronpk they handle the shipping
#
aaronpk if you select pickup, then it will get shipped to me and i will bring it
#
kylewm hmm, Expected Delivery:
#
kylewm Fri, May 27 - Mon, Jun 6
#
voxpelli not the cheapest european shipping, but doable :)
#
kylewm half of that range is very good half is very bad!
#
aaronpk yeah, cutting it close!
#
aaronpk http://answers.teespring.com/customer/portal/articles/1710948
#
aaronpk ohh crap the pickup delivery order says it takes an extra week
#
kylewm so definitely don't do Pickup if you wanted it for IWS
#
aaronpk i'm going to see if iccan remove that option
#
aaronpk bear: that material doesn't go up to 5XL but the regular shirts do. so I might be able to make a special campaign or add a variant to this one that has that size.
#
bear if i'm the only one that wants that size, no worries - I'll find a local shop :)
marcthiele joined the channel
#
GWG Contributing to WordPress Core is harder than I thought.
#
KevinMarks anything we can help with?
#
GWG KevinMarks, I am not familiar with the WordPress Way.
benborges joined the channel
#
GWG Alos, overscoping my tickets
#
GWG I had a ticket to update the Pingback handler based on what I learned trying to update Webmentions.
#
GWG It was suggested I break it into smaller pieces
#
GWG I can't get new features committed if I can't master bug fixes and redundancy.
#
voxpelli You can probably always share a ticket here and get help with trying to break it down into more easily committed pieces
#
GWG voxpelli, I need to internalize the WordPress development guidelines as well
#
voxpelli That's a pretty hard thing about bigger open source projects: Trying to break down a big change into many small simple changes that each one while alone can easily be reviewed and committed
#
voxpelli Developed some interesting strategies for that while I was an active Drupal contributor
#
GWG voxpelli, any advice?
#
voxpelli Use lots of git-branches and try to minimize code changes in every patch :P
#
GWG voxpelli, WordPress uses svn
#
GWG But I can generate diffs from git if I want.
#
voxpelli right :P Drupal used cvs and patch-files, so I just generated all of the patch-files from git
#
GWG The last one I am trying before taking a breather on this problem to try some simple fare that will help webmentions in future is a filter for pingback source verification.
#
aaronpk wow teespring support is quick!
#
aaronpk bear: there's a "teespring premium tee" option available now that has your size!
#
GWG voxpelli, https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/36766
#
aaronpk also I got them to push back the end date so now the pickup option *should* arrive in time
#
gRegorLove Hope you don't get stuck with shirts arriving after and have to mail them on.
#
aaronpk haha yeah
#
gRegorLove Think I'll get it mailed to me to be safe
#
aaronpk i'm also ordering two each of S/M/L with regular shipping to have some extra on hand to sell in person
hongpong joined the channel
#
voxpelli GWG: not sure the HEAD-request is needed there – I would suggest making that a separate issue to avoid having it block the addition of that filter
#
kylewm and everyone remember American Apparel shirts run small
#
gRegorLove That reminds me, I wanted to get a microformats shirt. Forgot to follow up with tantek about that last year.
#
GWG voxpelli, do you think the concept itself makes sense?
#
voxpelli GWG: to have a filter that allows for improved/alternative Pingback presentations? Yes, very much so
#
GWG voxpelli, that I got into WordPress 4.5
#
GWG This is a filter which allows for alternative content types.
#
voxpelli GWG; oh, a filter to improve/extend verification of Pingback sources?
#
GWG voxpelli, exactly
#
voxpelli GWG: another general opensource suggestion btw: Code speaks louder than words :) Generally issues without code gets much less action than those with code
#
voxpelli GWG: and I imagine some example code in this case would be very simple to add (not sure if WP actually works that way, WP is kind of special at times)
#
@aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728320428335226880)
#
GWG voxpelli, I wrote it. In the related ticket they told me to break up
#
GWG I haven't broken it up yet.
#
voxpelli GWG: oh, right I see it now, yeah, should probably break up the code as well
#
voxpelli GWG: also link to the new tickets from the old one, pretty common to have a bigger ticket that links out to smaller parts :)
#
gRegorLove 37 shirts to go. Good start.
#
aaronpk wow on a roll
#
kylewm black was an interesting choice, btw. not what i expected, but it looks nice
#
GWG voxpelli, I had to head to work. Will resume when I get home later.
#
aaronpk haha
#
aaronpk i think it'll look great with the grey text on black shirt. nice and subtle.
#
kylewm aaronpk: haha you are in Hartsfield?
#
aaronpk i'm at ATL
#
@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728322119835238401)
#
gRegorLove Wait, can tech-related shirts come in non-black?
#
aaronpk lol
#
aaronpk alright boarding the plane for Düsseldorf!
#
aaronpk i'll be offline until tomorrow morning in germany!
#
@jgarber RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728326623968251905)
#
@kylewmahan RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728324947894931456)
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] gregorlove: We’ll do another run in another color sometime. Maybe a heather grey. But for now, this batch is tri-blend black.
#
[shaners] Which is kind of like a heather / speckled black.
#
miklb cool. Can't be there in person, but can be there in spirit wearing the shirt.
#
[shaners] voxpelli: If you want to find a .eu based printer / print on demand site, maybe you could bottom line Euro printed shipment of shirts. For cheaper shipping.
marcthiele joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme gRegorLove: regarding Tech T-shirts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPIaVZ9-H70&feature=youtu.be&t=2848
#
ben_thatmustbeme wow my memory was of that talk being much better
#
ben_thatmustbeme the flicker is terrible though
#
@veganstraightedge We now have an @indiewebcamp tshirt for sale (with the new logo I designed). Buy now for Indie Web Summit! $16 https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728330962992439297)
#
@veganstraightedge RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728329319185932288)
#
gRegorLove [shaners]: No complaints, I like black.
[benatwork] joined the channel
#
[benatwork] Here’s a fun one I wasn’t aware of: https://medium.com/@jitbit/target-blank-the-most-underestimated-vulnerability-ever-96e328301f4c#.ultrccdtb
#
@jkphl RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728334034623975424)
#
@IndieWebCampDE Brandneu und vielleicht ja bald deines: #IndieWebCamp-Shirts im neuen Design! Bestellungen ab sofort https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/728320428335226880 (twitter.com/_/status/728333853149036544)
#
gRegorLove Interesting.
#
gRegorLove rel-noopener, heh
#
aaronpk I am really happy about the indiewebcampDE account tweeting in German :-)
begriffs joined the channel
#
aaronpk omg sticker proofs are done! Hope I can approve them before this plane takes off
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] pew pew pew
#
@waferbaby @magicbeans: Reminds me of: https://indiewebcamp.com/own-your-data (twitter.com/_/status/728337542756499456)
#
kylewm hehe https://twitter.com/magicbeans/status/728337957602500608
#
@magicbeans @waferbaby silo posse confused me (twitter.com/_/status/728337957602500608)
#
aaronpk lol
#
aaronpk next t-shirt design?
#
kylewm The Silo Posse is the arch-enemy of IndieWebCamp
#
[benatwork] OH
#
[benatwork] Oh
#
[benatwork] Is it too late to get that T-shirt made
#
aaronpk Too late? I just launched it!
#
aaronpk 10 days to get orders in!
#
aaronpk or you mean silo posse?
#
[benatwork] I’ve already ordered the indiewebcamp one :simple_smile:
#
[benatwork] Now I want a silo posse shirt :wink:
#
aaronpk \o/
#
Loqi gives [benatwork] a silo posse shirt
marcthiele joined the channel
#
aaronpk Well if someone designs it ...
#
aaronpk Theres still time
#
aaronpk you can set a 7-day limit so it starts printing sooner
#
[benatwork] hmmmm
Lancey joined the channel
#
myfreeweb hi aaronpk! just switched my server to the new syndicate-to format... which instantly resulted in an XSS in quill: https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HLiOH5R.png
#
aaronpk Had to reject the proof of one of the stickers, I'm really picky about where the cuts are made
#
aaronpk Oh gosh thanks. I probably forgot to escape the output
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF : http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-04.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-sf-hwc2016-05-04html-indieweb
#
myfreeweb yes exactly
#
aaronpk gonna need a micropub test suite soon. The webmention one helped me catch a bunch of that before
#
myfreeweb omg micropublish has the same problem! why did no one expect the uid to be html? :D
#
aaronpk Was it like the name of one of your destinations had a quote or something?
#
myfreeweb my uids are <a href="bridgy...">
#
aaronpk Ha what
#
aaronpk okay
#
aaronpk that sounds like something I can fix on the plane :-)
#
aaronpk ✈️ bye!
#
[shaners] myfreeweb: Why are your UIDs HTML?
#
myfreeweb because i use bridgy publish
#
[shaners] Why is bridgy publish using HTML for UIDs?
#
myfreeweb it's not
#
myfreeweb it's using webmentions, so, html links
#
myfreeweb i'm just trying to do the simplest thing
#
myfreeweb micropub clients give me the uid, which is the html link, which i just append to the content
#
[shaners] What does this mean "it's using webmentions, so, html links”?
#
[shaners] Oh i see
#
[shaners] Can you slurp the URL outta the HREF?
#
myfreeweb what? why?
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] A uid is supposed to be a url
#
myfreeweb no
#
myfreeweb the spec literally says "opaque to the client"
#
myfreeweb it can be whatever i want
#
myfreeweb the client should not mess with it
#
[kevinmarks] I mean in broader indieweb/microformats use
#
[kevinmarks] Making it an html snippet is a bit odd
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
myfreeweb does syndicate-to even have anything to do with microformats??
#
[kevinmarks] Good from an assumptions testing pov, but likely to cause interop problems
#
myfreeweb i cause problems. always.
#
[kevinmarks] Is this assholes and morons time?
#
[kevinmarks] Hm, do people still know that one?
mlncn joined the channel
#
[shaners] myfreeweb: uid is often stuffed into some html somewhere in the whole food chain. So by having a uid that is HTML means that HTML would be getting stuffed into an html attr sometimes.
#
[shaners] Seems prone to cause escaping issues / complexity
#
[kevinmarks] http://www.diveintomark.link/2004/why-specs-matter
#
Loqi [markpilgrim] Why specs matter (posted 2004-08-17T02:51:40+00:00)
#
[benatwork] oh wow. I’ve got some CSS triage to do tonight.
#
myfreeweb good, more people will learn to escape html
#
myfreeweb this particular case is not very security sensitive as you can only exploit yourself
#
KevinMarks well if a client shows the uid as fallback
#
KevinMarks which woodwind did until recently
#
myfreeweb then it should show "&lt;a href..."
#
KevinMarks ew
#
KevinMarks did you try woodwind?
#
myfreeweb i use woodwind as my reader, yes
#
myfreeweb haven't tried syndication in it yet
#
myfreeweb (after updating to the new syndicate-to format)
#
myfreeweb aaaand woodwind is broken too!
#
KevinMarks well, file a bug
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
kylewm heh, yeah it would do <input value="<a href="...">">
#
myfreeweb reported the issue on github
#
gRegorLove What is uid?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "uid" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Kq
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] uid is a unique identifier.
#
loqi.me created /uid (+54) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-05/line/1462489294694 and dfn added by [shaners]" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
gRegorLove Haha, that article is great, KevinMarks
#
KevinMarks we're at that stage with these specs
#
KevinMarks so a good time to be an asshole
#
myfreeweb being a somewhat "security person" makes me a huge asshole :D
marcthiele joined the channel