#indiewebcamp 2016-05-24

2016-05-24 UTC
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snarfed thanks!
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tantek colintedford++ nice work on creating and fleshing out /versioning !!!
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Loqi colintedford has 7 karma
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tantek.com edited /versioning (+55) "/* Source Control Management */ direct links to SVN, Mercurial, no indieweb need for separate pages (yet, maybe ever?)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Subversion (+8) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /SVN (+26) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /svn (+26) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Mercurial (+8) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+29) "/* Features */ versioning" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /meta_http-equiv_status (+81) "/* http-equiv Status */ link to devmo description of http-equiv attr" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /updated (+28) "/* See Also */ versioning, edit" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /versioning (+14) "/* See also */ [[updated]]" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /edit (+31) "/* See Also */ updated, versioning" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /edit (+14) "/* See Also */ [[deleted]]" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /versioning (+14) "/* See Also */ [[deleted]]" (view diff)
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bear another markdown parser implementation: https://meh.com/forum/topics/mehdown-2-0
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Loqi [shawn] Mehdown 2.0
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tantek LOL: "No need remember the Markdown syntax for adding links."
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tantek LOL2: "If your URL ends with a recognizable image format Mehdown with automatically convert it to an image (instead of a text link)" Hmmm... where I have heard this before ... /autoembed
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bear some of the smart embed items are on my itch list for my site... now if I only blogged more about media resources
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tantek I dare say the Tables, Nested Blockquotes, and Nested Lists look reasonable (as textual equivalents)
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tantek OTOH: "~~" for strikethrough?!? Are you kidding me? That's a totally madeup thing.
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bear yea, I always thought that was odd - my preference was to use -foo- as that resembled what I was trying to do
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bear as well as /foo/ for italics - but the web URL fad ruined that
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bear ;) (/me raises the sarcasm flag on that last one)
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tantek hahah yeah /foo/ for italics vs. directories was always a problem
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tantek bear, I *almost* said something about -foo- except that starts to look like a CSS vendor prefix :P
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bear chuckles
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tantek have you seen -f-o-o-
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[kevinmarks] slack uses ~ either side for ~strikethrough~
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[kevinmarks] hm
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KevinMarks that didn't do what I expected
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tantek really dislikes backtick for inline code. again, no plain text precdence, totally made-up, totally forgettable
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colintedford I switched from Markdown to ReStructured Text for a while and they used backtick for (among other things) <cite>
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colintedford Which is arbitrary, but I really miss having it.
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KevinMarks and ``` is almost as long as <pre> </pre>
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colintedford b/c I write titles of works often.
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tantek finally scrolls down to the IMGUR TRON Legacy gif loop and realizes the entire reason that bear posted this in the first place.
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tantek Yup, time to go home,that pretty much tops my day
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bear my true intentions have been unmasked!
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tantek Imma let you finish, but first
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tantek what is GIFV?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "GIFV" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M1
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tantek 🎤
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bear GIFV was created at Imgur to allow GIFs to be played back at higher quality and is implemented by converting GIFs to mp4 or webm, greatly reducing the size of extremely large GIFs - see http://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ for more information.
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loqi.me created /GIFV (+285) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-23/line/1464050179243 and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [Sarah] Introducing GIFV
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colintedford Huh!
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KevinMarks so .gifv is mp4 with no sound and loop on?
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KevinMarks do you have to start with an 8-bit format?
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jdp pretty much, it's an html file with a video element with a couple different src values for compatibility
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bear the cool part is that any .gif url you get from imgur you can change to .gifv and use the mp4 to embed
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KevinMarks embed via iframe?
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bear I am probably using embed wrong :/
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KevinMarks http://giphy.com/gifs/1gy7XhmH6NwRO/html5
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bear I meant to say that you can use <video> tag to play it
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@scott_gruber Indiewebcamp: scottgruber.me. Trying to setup webmention to rsvp to @indiewebcamp in PDX. https://scottgruber.me/notes/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/734910632323997696)
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KevinMarks https://media.giphy.com/media/1gy7XhmH6NwRO/giphy.mp4
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KevinMarks hm
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bear KevinMarks++ for showing what I was trying to say :)
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Loqi KevinMarks has 217 karma
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KevinMarks also following tantek's mic drop
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uranther bear++
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Loqi bear has 134 karma
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@Damien53958753 IndieWeb Summit 2016 Own your data Personal API's https://indiewebcamp.com/next-iwc to discuss POSSE Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere (twitter.com/_/status/734973462255521792)
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microfox hello guys i have a problem here when i try bin/bundle install --with mysql it keep complies about hamlit want ruby v 2.1 and i am using 2.2 as wiki says so i am not able to install hamlit v 2.3.1 also listen 3.1.3 want ruby 2.2.3 ??? so any idea am using centos 7
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kylewm what are you trying to install microfox?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you trying to install microfox" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M2
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kylewm hush Loqi
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Loqi grins profusely
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microfox okay thanks anyway :)\
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kylewm is invisible
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aaronpk Which app is this for?
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@linux_everyday https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday (twitter.com/_/status/734983200221605889)
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microfox it's a social network ruby app called diaspora
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Ruxton microfox: you should be checking out #diaspora
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KevinMarks everyone keeps leaving that channel for some reason
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KartikPrabhu what is app-manifest?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "app-manifest" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M3
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KartikPrabhu what is manifest?
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Loqi A manifest or app manifest is a file that provides information about a web app, like name, description, icons, developer/author https://indiewebcamp.com/manifest
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KartikPrabhu what is app manifest?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "app manifest" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M4
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KartikPrabhu app manifest is /manifest
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loqi.me created /app_manifest (+21) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-23/line/1464072427339 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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@aegibson73 I just liked "Add the Webmention plugin to your WordPress weblog" on @Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/85217592 (twitter.com/_/status/735010395128254464)
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@MartaSmaldone 'Owning my words' a post full of interesting remarks #publishing #indieweb #medium #comments #community @adactio https://adactio.com/journal/10675/amp (twitter.com/_/status/735010685017554944)
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donaldmcintosh.net edited /projects (+517) (view diff)
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donaldmcintosh.net created /User:Donaldmcintosh.net (+91) "Created page with "[http://donaldmcintosh.net Donald McIntosh] is a software developer from Glasgow, Scotland."" (view diff)
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mrhenko I have a question regarding backfeeding from Twitter to WordPress using Bridgy. When one of my notes gets a reply it is correctly sent as a webmention to my WP-site. If I reply to the reply (on Twitter) it's also sent as a webmention.
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mrhenko So far, so good.
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mrhenko But then it seems that subsequent posts in the thread are missed by Bridgy.
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mrhenko Has anyone else experienced this? Bug or feature?
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: are the subsequent posts not backfed to your "reply ot the reply" ?
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mrhenko @KartikPrabhu It doesn't show up in the dashboard of Bridgy at all. My reply to the reply is not posted as a separate post on my blog, only as a reply on twitter that is then backfed as a reply to my original post on the blog.
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: I think there was an faq/bug or something about this on Bridgy but I can't seem to find it
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mrhenko Me neither. I've searched the site and issues on the repo on github without any luck.
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: see bridgy related issue beginning http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24#t1464076969474
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Thanks!
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KartikPrabhu cheers!
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: btw what is your site?
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: blog.henrikcarlsson.se
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: pretty awesome!
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KartikPrabhu you have notes and everything!
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: I asked because I like looking at people's own sites to see what cool stuff they have done
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bear mrhenko++ nice looking site
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Loqi mrhenko has 1 karma
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@yatil Webmention is now a W3C Candidate Recommendation – Submit implementations! http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ /cc @adactio (twitter.com/_/status/735022824453214208)
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sknebel okay, your site has finally convinced me that I really need some sort of non-white structured background image for my site
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: white background is good too!
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sknebel it's the third site or so where I think "oh, they are doing the posts similar with these boxes, but it somehow looks better, what is different"
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Loqi The indieweb is different from previous efforts like blogging, federation, decentralization, etc http://indiewebcamp.com/different
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sknebel lol @ loqi
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Loqi yo
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KartikPrabhu lol!
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes counter example to boxes
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sknebel I like boxes, just something about them on my page doesn't feel right. Eh, will have to play around with a few more options soon
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: design is hard; keep iterating it
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Thanks! I've been tinkering with the indieweb stuff off and on for over a year and I've finally made the backfeed work without any manual intervention on my part.
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@LeonieWatson Implementations please! @W3C WebMention is a Candidate Recommendation https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ (twitter.com/_/status/735024559603240960)
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: I agree, looking at other peoples site's is great for inspiration. I was about to ask you about your site but I saw that you already posted it below. Trying to load it right now but it seems to not work at the moment.
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: nice! feel free to ask questions here. even if people are not around at the time, someone will asnwer
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: wait! might site does not load!
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mrhenko bear: Thank you! It got a lot prettier when I started using the SemPress theme instead of my own.
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bear I just swipe css from random sites so I don't have to think about design
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KartikPrabhu bear: good strategy until it doesn't work ;)
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bear ha! yep, which is about every other update -- which is why i'm not touching it for a while :)
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: No, not for me. I'm trying both the url you posted here (to the notes section) and directly to the top of it.
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: could you check if https://kartikprabhu.com/ loads for you? otherwise there is something wrong with my site!
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mrhenko sknebel: So what's your site?
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bear KartikPrabhu - your site is loading for me
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sknebel mrhenko: oh, sorry: http://www.svenknebel.de
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KartikPrabhu weird!
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Now both of them works. Probably something on my end. My connection has been acting up for a while.
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: oh good to know <phew!>
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mrhenko sknebel: I like the clean, simple look of it.
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: as a suggestion you might want to play with the border-radius of the boxes to make them more "round" and also the shadow; i suspect that is what is making them not seem "good" to you
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sknebel Will try that
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sknebel got some feedback that the boxes are not separated from the background enough
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sknebel more shadow might help
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sknebel (esp if I just posted an image followed by a note, on small screens you see the note and the top of the image, and some people thought at first the note was the title of the image
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sknebel which is no good
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: for that you might want to resctrict the height of the image on small screens
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KartikPrabhu as in max-height: 80vh
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mrhenko sknebel: I would suggest more whitespace between the various boxas to separate them better.
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KartikPrabhu or something similar that works with your design
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mrhenko sknebel: Also, if you allow me to nitpick, I'd use either a serif or a sans-serif font for both the post content and the meta data.
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: how come i get no feedback! ;)
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Oh, sorry! I was trying to do multiple things at once (unload the dishwasher, listen to a podcast and participating here) and as usual that led to me forgetting something.
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Very, __very__ nice!
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: oh comeon! I was only joking
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KartikPrabhu but I always like feedback
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: No problem, I didn't think you were seriously offended. :)
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sknebel just noticed I accidentially uploaded a CSS with the webfonts commented out *facepalm*
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sknebel (was working on it semi-offline on the train to IWC Düsseldorf and the browser delay annoyed me)
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mrhenko sknebel & KartikPrabhu: BTW, I'm adding both of your sites RSS feeds to my "microblogs" river.
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petermolnar why webfonts? even WordPress is moving away from them these days. Use native ones, and read this: https://medium.com/designing-medium/system-shock-6b1dc6d6596f#.rqekd1xwr
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petermolnar unless it's for icons
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: you should add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: webfonts are not all bad!
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petermolnar if you load it from your domain it's not _that_ bad
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petermolnar but they are slow
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KartikPrabhu not everything needs to be in Helevtica
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[kevinmarks] For icons use SVG
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: yup!
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu personally, I hate Helvetica, and it's not even present on my linux, since it's a proprietary font
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petermolnar that is not what I'm talking about
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KartikPrabhu mrhenko: my posting is infrequent these days but thanks!
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: ok bad example then. but webfonts cache well enough so...
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petermolnar there is a growing number of articles to use fonts that are locally present on machines: they will let the sites look native to the device and they are much faster on loading
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petermolnar you can save MBs with this
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KartikPrabhu but... but webfonts can be cached
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petermolnar Google Fonts, on the other hand, are not ok, and are a massive privacy leak imho
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petermolnar yes, they are cached
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@stevefaulkner RT @LeonieWatson Implementations please! @W3C WebMention is a Candidate Recommendation https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ (twitter.com/_/status/735030916008022016)
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KartikPrabhu privacy leak how?
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petermolnar by making a request on each pageload to google, letting google know every step you make on the internet?
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KartikPrabhu not each payload if they are cached
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petermolnar but of course
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Thanks, I'll add myself there.
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petermolnar it's a 203 return
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mrhenko KartikPrabhu: Well, that's the beauty of feeds, right. :)
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petermolnar even cached things generate a request, don't they?
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mrhenko sknebel: Does your site have an RSS feed?
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petermolnar and cache is not perfect; most devices are not handling it well enough, especially if they rely on in-memory caching, like some mobile devices
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@kartik_prabhu @LeonieWatson see: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Implementations (twitter.com/_/status/735032358705889280)
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: ok then as you suggest self-host fonts.
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KartikPrabhu the fact that people use services/CDNs is not an argument again using those features
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KartikPrabhu /s/againagainst
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KartikPrabhu /s/again/against
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KartikPrabhu my keyboard is broke!
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petermolnar it is, for me. besides the privacy issues, I do not really have control over those services, which was one of the main reasons for hosting my own stuff
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: how is it an argument against using webfonts if you can host them yourself?
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petermolnar I misunderstood your sentence, that was for the cdn/service based things
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KartikPrabhu aah ok
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petermolnar webfonts are not a problem on their own if you self-host them
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KartikPrabhu I just mean to say that webfonts by themselves are not a problem
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KartikPrabhu cool! we agree! :)
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petermolnar they might not be needed though, since there are good options baked in most of the current operating systems, which could be used instead :)
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: of course everyone should have good defaults to webfonts
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marcthiele.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:27025721842 a2b2c4f3be o.gif]]""
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marcthiele.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:26870753515 7d626a2364 o.jpg]]""
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marcthiele.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:27025721842 a2b2c4f3be o.gif]]"" (view diff)
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@PritiRohra RT @yatil Webmention is now a W3C Candidate Recommendation – Submit implementations! http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ /cc @adactio (twitter.com/_/status/735052932937322496)
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sknebel mrhenko: no, no RSS feed yet, only h-feed markup
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@jgerhold RT @yatil Webmention is now a W3C Candidate Recommendation – Submit implementations! http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ /cc @adactio (twitter.com/_/status/735066016682770432)
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marcthiele Hello from Germany
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Loqi marcthiele: tantek left you a message on 5/12 at 12:58pm: are you coming to the Leaders Summit? Can you RSVP here accordingly? https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Leaders#RSVP http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-12/line/1463083099732
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marcthiele Question: Did something in/with Bridgy change? Since my last post yesterday, I have multiple appearances of Mentions. Like here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/wrap-up-dus2016 or here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/textmode-art-a-precursor-of-web-design
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marcthiele Did not change anything at my end. Just get those multiple entries of the mentions.
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marcthiele Deleted the entries manually, but in the later example, new appearances came up.
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cjk101010 marcthiele: works for me, no duplicate mentions
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cjk101010 sorry
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marcthiele Jap. Deleted them by hand now ;)
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cjk101010 no, I mean I don’t get duplicate mentions via brid.gy
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marcthiele Had about 20 of two people in the one post and 7 of someone in the other.
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marcthiele Ah ok.
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cjk101010 did the 20 mentions come in via twitter?
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marcthiele I think they did.
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marcthiele Am going to have an eye on it.
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cjk101010 hm, it works for me, just checked. sorry for not being helpful.
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marcthiele No worries. Thanks for looking into it. ;)
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GWG Morning
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sknebel marcthiele: did they have the same URL? while I don't know about bridgy internals, in general getting multiple webmentions for the same url pair is not unusual
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sknebel GWG: morning!
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marcthiele @sknebel I will check next time. But I think they had.
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GWG Any exciting Indiewebcamp news?
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sknebel marcthiele: then that's probably something your software should deduplicate automatically
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@marcthiele RT @jkphl In only 2 days we'll meet for the 1st Homebrew Website Club in Nuremberg. Still plenty of space to join! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/735091089800105984)
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@btconf RT @jkphl In only 2 days we'll meet for the 1st Homebrew Website Club in Nuremberg. Still plenty of space to join! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/735091761480126465)
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marcthiele @sknebel now a duplicate is back. With a different timestamp. https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/textmode-art-a-precursor-of-web-design -> Charis Rooda. Have to take a closer look, what it is.
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marcthiele Same in this post with Tobias Baldauf: https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/wrap-up-dus2016
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marcthiele Gonna let you know what it was in the end.
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@jgmac1106 Huge shout out to @erinjo and @benwerd on the two year anniversary of @withknown you have helped bring the #indieweb to educators. (twitter.com/_/status/735100043968053248)
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kodfabrik.se edited /Planning (+19) "/* Brighton UK */ Adding vote to the second popular Brighton date as well" (view diff)
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voxpelli !tell tantek Did you mean the weekend _before_ W3C APAC in your Brighton 2016-09-17 vote? https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Brighton_UK
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735108163704348672)
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@gorocube Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation): The W3C Social Web Working Group is c... https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation (twitter.com/_/status/735108412648742912)
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@DCS_RSS Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation): The W3C Social Web Working Group is c... https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation (twitter.com/_/status/735108416276832257)
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snarfed hey aaronpk, you're still looking for a way to save ownyourgram, right?
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 5 hours, 48 minutes ago: see bridgy related issue beginning http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24#t1464076969474 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24/line/1464077633215
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snarfed (i saw, i'd happily debug if i could find his/her domain or twitter username :/ )
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snarfed aaronpk: re ownyourgram, you're welcome to port it from instagram's API to the REST API on https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ if you want
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snarfed since it's scraping now
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aaronpk Oh that's not a bad idea
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snarfed assuming oyg just polls...?
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aaronpk no it uses the push api
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aaronpk so I'll have to create a polling schedule
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snarfed oh. you'd have to port to polling then, which would still take some work
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snarfed yeah
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snarfed doable at least
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aaronpk yea
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@kevinmarks RT @LeonieWatson Implementations please! @W3C WebMention is a Candidate Recommendation https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ (twitter.com/_/status/735109268592988160)
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aaronpk also the push API is kind of broken
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snarfed true!
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@ArsalanAKhan World Wide Web Consortium (W3C): Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation (twitter.com/_/status/735109583362985984)
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aaronpk any tips on how to make a schedule for polling that is smarter than hitting every account every n minutes?
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@Bopuc RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735109873923411968)
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snarfed aaronpk: bridgy does gradual backoff based on how recently it successfully sent a wm
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/models.py#L248-265
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@roandry Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation): The W3C Social Web Working Group is c... https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation (twitter.com/_/status/735110146754387968)
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@levena_evenas Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) | W3C News https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 seeing (twitter.com/_/status/735110283841044480)
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@levena_evenas RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735110423817551873)
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sknebel snarfed: marcthiele also had bridgy questions: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24/line/1464091623982 (seeing duplicates of mentions, I guessed his software doesn't deduplicate Webmentions but I didn't know if that actually is a possible issue with bridgy)
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Loqi [marcthiele] Question: Did something in/with Bridgy change? Since my last post yesterday, I have multiple appearances of Mentions. Like here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/wrap-up-dus2016 or here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/textmode-art-a-precursor-of-we...
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@DJSundog Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ looks interesting-ish. (twitter.com/_/status/735110929554116608)
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snarfed !tell marcthiele sorry for the dupes! bridgy tries to avoid those, but it's impossible to prevent all of them. you'll want to make your CMS de-dupe them. maybe send a feature request if it doesn't already.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@Kseso Webmention a new @w3c CR https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ https://twitter.com/Kseso/status/735111810295156736/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/735111810295156736)
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sknebel twitter changes: https://blog.twitter.com/express-even-more-in-140-characters
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@ChPietsch New W3C standard Webmention sounds good: “This mechanism is a core building block for a decentralized (social) Web…” https://twitter.com/w3c/status/735108163704348672 (twitter.com/_/status/735112140923752452)
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sknebel if I read that correctly replies are then always shown to your followers? Or am I misinterpreting the phrasing?
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sknebel ah, no, they probably mean new @somebody tweets are shown, replies not
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aaronpk "If you want a reply to be seen by all your followers, you will be able to Retweet it to signal that you intend for it to be viewed more broadly."
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aaronpk clever
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snarfed ugh now all of us get to change our char counting code, whee
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snarfed interesting that they didn't include urls, ie urls will continue to count toward the char limit
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snarfed filed https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/89
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voxpelli aaronpk: if you include a "If-Modified-Since" header or similar then Granary can also try to optimize things so that the polling doesn't become as costly as otherwise
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[kevinmarks] Dev blog details https://blog.twitter.com/2016/doing-more-with-140-characters
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[kevinmarks] But https://dev.twitter.com/overview/api/upcoming-changes-to-tweets says access denied
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@IgiFischer RT @w3c: Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation #Internet (twitter.com/_/status/735116435966414850)
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@TritiaPOCCI INTERNET: Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation #internet #web (twitter.com/_/status/735116438361382913)
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@linux_everyday https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday (twitter.com/_/status/735118433889726464)
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@azaroth42 RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735120269417713665)
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@kevinmarks RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735120438280486912)
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@todrobbins RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735120533746896897)
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@gsavastano Soon please! "Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation)" https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation #w3c (twitter.com/_/status/735121328060170240)
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@hail2u_ やること思い出して起きたらWebmentionのCR出ててテンション上がった みたいなウソつきたくなった (twitter.com/_/status/735130560792649728)
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@dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview (twitter.com/_/status/735133006847954944)
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sknebel [kevinmarks]: the dev.twitter... link is now reachable
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Loqi [indieweb] "Plan for Drupal 8" by HongPong https://www.drupal.org/node/2687129
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[kylewm] voxpelli: do you know whether instagram’s web interface supports that stuff? (E-tags or If-Modified-Sinces?)
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[kylewm] I keep reading that as "Plan 8 from Drupal"
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@roundtrip RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735135580401639424)
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[kylewm] omg, "I messaged the owner of the linkback module namespace, back in May 2001:"
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voxpelli [kylewm]: no idea :/
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voxpelli (Time spans in Drupal are interesting 😃)
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kylewm Could still use if modified since but granary would need to do some caching and hashing
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kylewm (if they don't)
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@benwerd New resolution: buy more music on Bandcamp. https://blog.bandcamp.com/2016/05/19/bandcamp-downloads-streaming-and-the-inescapably-bright-future/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/735146629230002176)
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Loqi [indieweb] "New resolution: buy more music on Bandcamp. https://blog.bandcamp.com/2016/05/19/bandcamp-downloads-streaming-and-the-inescapably-bright-future/ #indieweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/new-resolution-buy-more-music-on-bandcamp-20160519bandcamp-downloads-streaming-and-the-inescapably-bright-future-indieweb
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@jkphl Yes! Both the #IndieWeb Hack Day and our 2nd @CoderDojoNBG featured among next months most exciting local events \o/ https://twitter.com/nueww/status/735124739069489153 (twitter.com/_/status/735147529172574209)
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@bsletten RT @dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview (twitter.com/_/status/735148780123607040)
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aaronpk that's an interesting way of phrasing it
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@voxpelli RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735149446510546947)
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tantek someone conflating HTML5 and W3C?
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Loqi tantek: voxpelli left you a message 3 hours, 2 minutes ago: Did you mean the weekend _before_ W3C APAC in your Brighton 2016-09-17 vote? https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Brighton_UK http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24/line/1464098375673
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@tomwiththeweath RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735154313257877504)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+1) "/* Brighton UK */ fix after/before" (view diff)
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tantek great work everyone: https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
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Loqi 24 May 2016
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@fakebaldur RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735158824659652613)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: bridgy is not finding my webmention targets now: https://brid.gy/twitter/kartik_prabhu
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KartikPrabhu any idea what might be wrong?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: looking
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: the first entry is here https://kartikprabhu.com/notes marked up with syndication links
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: looking at your "last crawl" log: https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1463960234&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyGgsSB1R3aXR0ZXIiDWthcnRpa19wcmFiaHUM
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KartikPrabhu strange it found the next page of my notes feed
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: it just hasn't crawled your site since that note/tweet
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KartikPrabhu oh! I see
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snarfed it'll find them and resend on next crawl, or you can click crawl now
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KartikPrabhu I'll tell it to recrawl then thanks!
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KartikPrabhu does bridgy take into account posting frequency while crawling?
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snarfed indirectly yes
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snarfed mostly how recently it's sent you a successful wm
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KartikPrabhu oh ok! seems I have not posted in about a month!
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snarfed looks like that's >1mo for you, so it's slow
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snarfed yup
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KartikPrabhu cool! thanks for the quick response!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed++
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snarfed welcome!
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Loqi snarfed has 223 karma
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KartikPrabhu strange that I almost use bridgy as a validator for my site ;)
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snarfed heh
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KartikPrabhu hooray! bridgy found new stuff
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KartikPrabhu bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 40 karma
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tantek ok after a little digging it looks like the only previous "Why" section on /Webmention discussed mostly just "Why webmentions (e.g. instead of Pingback)" rather than why from a user-centric perspective
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tantek e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Webmention&oldid=20682#Why
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tantek so it's probably worth writing up a user-centric /Webmention#Why
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@synvila This is important news! – Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735172874709913601)
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@aaronpk Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback! (twitter.com/_/status/735174476246093825)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback!" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/24/8/webmention
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bear my IndieWebCamp tshirt order has arrived
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aaronpk whoa!
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tantek nice!
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aaronpk that was sooner than expected!
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aaronpk how'd they turn out?
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tantek interesting, this post didn't get caught by Superfeedr: http://tantek.com/2016/145/t1/webmention-candidate-recommendation
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] #Webmention is @W3C Candidate Recommendation (CR)!
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tantek heh
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aaronpk the superfeedr search is actually only looking for "indieweb" so i bet the URL indiewebcamp.com didn't trigger it
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tantek that was my first post since I got webmentions/pingbacks automatic sending to all links in content working, where I happened to link to something with a pingback endpoint (but no webmention endpoint) - the W3C official announcement has a pingback camp
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aaronpk oh nice
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tantek s/pingback camp/pingback endpoint and my UI discovered and claimed it would ping it
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Loqi tantek meant to say: that was my first post since I got webmentions/pingbacks automatic sending to all links in content working, where I happened to link to something with a pingback endpoint (but no webmention endpoint) - the W3C official announcement has a pingback endpoint and my UI discovered and claimed it would ping it
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tantek but of course, the w3c post does not show any pingbacks so
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aaronpk it found the webmention endpoint in the spec too right? :)
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bear the size of the C is large enough that the one edge is curling because of the ink drying
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aaronpk oh no, that doesn't sound good
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tantek aaronpk: I think so? I clicked thru too quickly
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bear it's also possibly a side effect of the shirt - the larger sizes use a lower quality shirt
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cweiske stretched beyond quality :)
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bear no - it still looks good - just saying that when the ink dried it did a small edge curl - totally fixable by smoothing
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bear it just means that this shirt is definitely on the "air dry" list
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aaronpk it did find it! https://webmention.io/api/mentions?target=https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/
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tantek first! :)
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tantek oh hey I should add /Falcon to the list of implementations since at least it's sending all the webmentions automatically for anything linked to now!
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@codebear woo - my #indieweb 2016 TShirt has arrived! https://bear.im/bearlog/2016/145/iwc-2016-tshirt-has-arrived (twitter.com/_/status/735178788766679041)
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bear nice - i'm seeing inbound webmentions - glad I tested that code recently :)
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bear oh noes - my code is seeing the img href as a possible outbound - yikes
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aaronpk that's not necessarily wrong
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tantek why oh noes?
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tantek I believe KevinMarks receives webmentions for images :)
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aaronpk if the img advertises a webmention endpoint then you should send it one!
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bear it's my own domain but a different base url
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snarfed what's a use case for wming an image?
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bear sorry - yea, it's not the img itself but rather that my image url is not the same base as the post url so I'm not removing it for beeing same origin
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bear s/beeing/being/
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Loqi bear meant to say: sorry - yea, it's not the img itself but rather that my image url is not the same base as the post url so I'm not removing it for being same origin
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aaronpk you don't send webmentions to yourself?
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bear no
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bear I haven't enabled that as right now it causes a loop in my code which I know is present but don't have cycles to debug
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bear I prioritized adding update wm sends over self sends
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aaronpk ah cool
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bear I know it's there and I know I can fix it - but don't want to go down that rabbit hole unless I have a good free day - and those are rare lately
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KevinMarks my use case is svgur.com - if they embed the svg or png, the wm still sows up
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KevinMarks http://svgur.com/s/5F
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Loqi indiewebcamp logo
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aaronpk oh so you map webmentions of the raw svg URL to a webmention of the HTML page for the image?
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aaronpk neat
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bear I was noodling about doing that for ics files
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bear to allow me to manage my calendar using mf2
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KevinMarks so I put the webmention endpoint in the Link header
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KevinMarks Also the PNG preview I make for legacy silos that don't understand SVG
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KevinMarks that was the point of my comment on https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/issues/40
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KevinMarks Link: means you can track mentions of any file type
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KevinMarks I didn't have to modify known or webmention.herokuapp.com for this, just add link headers and check for links to more than one URL
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bear I'm glad you replied to that issue - i was trying to decide if I wanted to wade into it with a similar response and then saw your response :)
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KevinMarks https://github.com/kevinmarks/svgurl/commit/2128e022d76a5cec1d0a719290f8c69df737dc54
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KevinMarks It's a sign of good spec design and isolation that this just works
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bear nods
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[benatwork] Lobbing this one into the channel and then running away: so many frameworks use u-* utility class names these days. I’m wondering what people think about using data attributes for microformats in order to remove them from the class namespace?
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bear my non-js using self views that as an advantage ;)
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@m_ott RT @aaronpk Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback! (twitter.com/_/status/735186578553733120)
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KevinMarks benatwork: they should use util- or utility- prefixes. u- is supposed to be a bodge around the careful structure, not a core thing
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KevinMarks @benatwork: see also http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#ignore_u-camelCase_properties
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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KevinMarks when you see frameworks doing this, send them bugs
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tantek benatwork - the "data attributes" misconception is pretty well documented, you know they're not for interop right?
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tantek and that's just the start of the problems with that proposal
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tantek basically every attempt to do microformats like things *outside* of 'class' has had MUCH worse data quality / adoption results
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tantek so usually the folks that suggest "hey make a new attribute" or "hey use data-*" have kind of zero experience with making that work across the web
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tantek kind of curious where you heard the suggestion
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tantek or from whom
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KevinMarks who uses u- apart from SUIT?
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KevinMarks if you're using BEM, u- is an ugly hack, so make it more explicitly ugly
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tantek benatwork - also, it's a non-problem because u-* class names only mean something in microformats inside h-* classed elements
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tantek so there are actually no real world problems with "so many frameworks use u-* utility class names these days"
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tantek again, curious about where that concern came from, because it speaks to someone who hasn't actually found a real world example, and is more about raising a theoretical concern
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tantek also, suspicious of the origin of the phrase "class namespace"
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tantek has that old skool XML smell
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KevinMarks If your supposed BEM class markup relies on u- classes for most of it's layout that's a code smell.
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KevinMarks maybe hack- would be a better prefix
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tantek or uhack-
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KevinMarks so u- is code for "not really inline <style>, honest guv"
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tantek I have no idea when I manually started sending webmentions for /reply posts
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tantek I need some way to look up my first in-reply-to NOT to twitter.com
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tantek sounds like something a database query would be good for :P
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snarfed grep in-reply-to | grep -v twitter.com ?
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@bengo RT @aaronpk Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback! (twitter.com/_/status/735192735326601216)
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tantek looks like this might be my first indieweb to indieweb "comment" http://tantek.com/2013/286/t1/real-time-indieweb-comments
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Well done @aaronpk! Real-time #indieweb comments:
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tantek ironically I started sending RSVPs before comments
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[benatwork] back from lunch - to address questions above (cc tantek, kevinmarks):
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[benatwork] it’s my concern, due to use in Skeleton and internal frameworks at companies like Medium
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+639) "/* Implementations */ add self, Falcon" (view diff)
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tantek now has to go to an appointment. will check logs later.
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[benatwork] the data- attribute solution is really just a placeholder / way of saying “is this the only way?"
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[benatwork] I take the point about interoperability
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tantek benatwork, many others have tried other attributes, and they've all sucked
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tantek point is, if you don't put meaning in class, it gets forgotten, rotten, lost
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tantek years of experience, numerous attempts
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tantek microdata, rdfa etc.
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[benatwork] makes sense
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tantek all worse quality, harder, maintenance than microformats (classic or uf2)
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tantek so yeah, based on years of real world experiments, class for meaning is the best we've found
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[shaners] tantek: for future occurrences of this conversation, is this written up on the mf wiki somewhere?
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tantek in lots of little details
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tantek no "big story arc" of it
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tantek because then you get various timewasters nitpicking about rdfa etc.
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tantek and microdata is pretty much dead since google (the only real bigco advocate motivating anyone) switched to the insanity of JSONLD data islands
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tantek but it's ok, I'm sure people will retry this experiment with other techniques in the future
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tantek and then we document those as well
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KevinMarks so fork skeleton to change u- to util-
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KevinMarks they only seem to have 5 https://github.com/dhg/Skeleton/blob/master/css/skeleton.css#L361
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KevinMarks wheras medium seems ot have defined lots more
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KevinMarks <div class="metabar-inner u-size1000 u-marginAuto u-xs-left20 u-xs-right20">
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mrhenko snarfed: I was the one asking this. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24#t1464076969474 I saw that you've been trying to find my Twitter name or domain while I was away. Domain is blog.henrikcarlsson.se, Twitter handle is @synvila.
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KevinMarks so I'd say creeping u- in CSS is a warning, and using hack- or util- is better practice
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snarfed mrhenko: hi! see if anything in https://brid.gy/about#missing helps?
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KevinMarks on the other hand, a few stray cf or size12of12 properties in the parsed mf isn't terrible either - no parser is looking for them
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KevinMarks <article class="u-sizeViewHeightMin100 postArticle postArticle--full" lang="en"><header class="container u-size740 is-underMetabar"><div class="row u-showOnMobile"><div class="col u-xs-size12of12 u-xs-bottom10">
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mrhenko snarfed: Thanks, I checked that listed before and as far as I can tel neither applies in my case.
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KevinMarks not sure that is a problem with microformats so much as creeping layout issues
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KevinMarks if there are 422 u- rules in https://cdn-static-1.medium.com/_/fp/css/main-base.y6Lz4OgFxgoOedxVqwG5Cw.css
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snarfed mrhenko: hmm ok. got an example that you think bridgy should have sent but didn't?
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mrhenko snared: Here's an example: http://blog.henrikcarlsson.se/2016/05/7887/ Compare the results to the tweet: https://twitter.com/synvila/status/734708904798605312
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@synvila Är det nÃ¥n som känner till nÃ¥t problem med strlen i PHP och "svenska" tecken? (Ã¥, ä, ö etc.) Verkar räkna fel. (twitter.com/_/status/734708904798605312)
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@regisrob RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/735199308644024321)
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KevinMarks oh, sorry 389
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mrhenko snarfed: So the reply to my post gets backfed. So does my reply to the reply but then the reply to my reply (and all subsequent replies) gets omitted by Bridgy.
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KevinMarks reading the 389 .u- rules there, the prefix should be .style-
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KevinMarks they're shortcuts for explict style rules, that are not structured
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snarfed mrhenko: not sure yet why those responses are missing. sorry for the trouble! i'll keep looking
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snarfed if you want them beforehand, you're always welcome to send them manually. https://brid.gy/about#source-urls
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mrhenko snarfed: Thanks, I had missed that that was possible to do. And don't lose any sleep over this. And thanks for creating Bridgy. It's a great service!
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snarfed1 you're welcome!
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@sandhawke RT @dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview (twitter.com/_/status/735217268871860225)
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/u-means-style.html
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Loqi When u- means <style> 2016-05-24
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KevinMarks thoughts anyone>
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@WuselDusel83 Hier ist ein Test zu Webmentions - ignorieren http://blog.kallerhoff.org/2016/05/24/hier-ist-ein-test-zu-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/735223455633788932)
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Webrocker @KevinMarks +1 for style, or hack, or even tool-
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Webrocker @KevinMarks thx for that. I just stumbled over this (use "u" as "utility") in a new project, where some bem itcss
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Webrocker @KevinMarks sccs stuff is happening.
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@gslin Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) | W3C News http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 via @nuzzel (twitter.com/_/status/735230190813470721)
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Webrocker /list
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KartikPrabhu 200 to 300 "utility classes" sounds like bad CSS writing
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KevinMarks well, a lot of them are like bootstrap x BEM
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KevinMarks size1of10 size5of12
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KevinMarks fraction to % mappings
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KevinMarks also u-xs-size80x80 u-sm-size80x80 u-md-size80x80 u-lg-size80x80
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KevinMarks LOL
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degrey hi everyone! do any of you have suggestions re: code for a simple image gallery in kirby?
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KevinMarks hi, is that Elora?
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degrey hi kevin! it is!
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KevinMarks welcome
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degrey thank you!
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KevinMarks what is kirby?
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Loqi Kirby is a filed-based CMS https://indiewebcamp.com/Kirby
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degrey i know basic html/css but php+cms is throwing me for a bit of a loop, i'm afraid
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degrey thanks @loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome
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KevinMarks not sure if our kirby users are here at the moment, as I think they're in germany
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degrey ahh i see :)
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KevinMarks but if you have examples of html/css to look at a lot of people here can help
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degrey i should try in the morning, perhaps
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Loqi it is probable
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degrey i appreciate that @kevinmarks, thank you!
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KevinMarks did you find gallery plugins you liked?
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KevinMarks aaronpk was working on image grids, but I think you likely want more space
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degrey yes, some space between them would be really nice
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degrey I haven't really found a plugin that I like though I think a simple one would suffice
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techlifeweb Kirby looks interesting. I'll have to check that one out.
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KevinMarks you presumably want something more instagram minimal than pinterest dense?
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degrey @techlifeweb I've really loved it so far!
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degrey @kevinmarks Definitely. :)
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KevinMarks your http://www.erdegrey.com now is gallery in the fine art sende
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degrey I've come across a number of plugins on Github, but with my knowledge of code if it doesn't have a screenshot I have no idea what's going on
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degrey yes, something like that @kevinmarks -- though i also like how jessica hische has her gallery set up, so i imagine somewhere in the middle is ideal
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degrey you can see that here http://jessicahische.is/working
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KevinMarks you may be able to get way with using flexbox to do that kind of thing
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KevinMarks I did http://svgur.com/ as the simplest grid possible
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degrey i like simple :)
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degrey hadn't heard of flexbox! looking that up now
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aaronpk flexbox is magic
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KevinMarks https://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/a-guide-to-flexbox/ is the good explanation
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aaronpk it's everything i wanted css to be able to do years ago
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degrey it looks so good!
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degrey thank you!!
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degrey i think my only question from here is how to integrate that into kirby's system, but i imagine i can try to link up with the kirby users in the morning :D
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degrey thanks so much everyone
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tantek tries to catchup on logs, from today
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KevinMarks tantek, have a look at http://www.kevinmarks.com/u-means-style.html
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Loqi When u- means <style> 2016-05-24
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KevinMarks see if the tone is helpful enough
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KevinMarks I am tempted to write another one 'bootstrap: 20 ways of saying colspan'
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tantek wow
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tantek that might be one of the most inefficient uses of CSS I've ever seen, for no additional utility
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tantek (ironically, by the name/prefix)
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tantek I feel like this is an Eric Meyer worthy heads-up
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tantek and heck if such framework authors want to use classes for inline styling, why not use "s-" instead?
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tantek for style this with this shorthand width/height/etc.?
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KevinMarks textColorNormal{color:rgba(0,0,0,.44) and textColorDarkest{color:rgba(0,0,0,.9) is a different kind of enraging
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@rivettp RT @dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview (twitter.com/_/status/735249442048069632)
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KevinMarks so any tonal things, or should I POSSE it?
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tantek no tonal problems, but not sure it expresses the problem in a way that web developers would care?
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tantek or: you're burying the lede
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tantek I think it's better to lead with the #1 problem: these frameworks are encouraging web devs to lie to themselves
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tantek e.g.: You keep using that word "utility", I do not that think that word means what you think it means.
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KevinMarks true, I do talk about mf2 a lot before getting to it
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tantek because when you use a classnames like .u-block just to style something {display:block!important} or u-height18 to style {height:18px!important}, you're not actually adding any functionality. you're not adding any utility. those are not utility classes. they are inline style shorthands.
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tantek class="u-block!important; u-height18!important" is just another way of saying style="display:block; height:18px"
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tantek (also KevinMarks, not <style>, but style= )
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tantek except now you've invented yet another syntax for styling things
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miklb KevinMarks lol @ that classes for text colors. Definitely not using Sass, or using it very wrong.
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tantek so instead of "just" using CSS, whoever maintains the code has to be able to read whatever u-mishmashCamelCase-hyphy-or_under_ syntax and interpret it
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@yuichigrut Daily Pickup : Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-for-implementation - v… https://www.w3.org/blog/news/ (twitter.com/_/status/735253625069576192)
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KevinMarks did you see the u-xs-size80x80{width:80px!important;height:80px!important} u-lg-size80x80{width:80px!important;height:80px!important} etc
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tantek not only is that NOT adding utility, it is actually subtracting, removing utility, by adding more cognitive load for the web developer
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tantek KevinMarks, yes, you don't need to talk a lot about mf2, or even at all
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tantek you can completely deconstruct this idiotic inline styling via class approach all on its own
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tantek using their own "utility" terminology
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KevinMarks then the mf2 part becomes an appendix?
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tantek much better if you keep such a deconstruction simpler, and not confound it with tangential, background, or secondary issues
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tantek if that
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KevinMarks well, it was Ben asking that that started me looking
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tantek even if mf2 didn't exist, this Skeleton or whatever approach is abhorrent all on its own
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tantek KevinMarks: not even an appendix
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tantek you could make it a Part 2 (second post) if you want
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KevinMarks see, I don't feel CSS-savvy enough to take on that whole thing
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tantek like "How did I discover this problem? Someone trying to put *actual* utility, actual meaning in their class attributes"
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KevinMarks you or Eric could do that better
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tantek right. all you have to do is keep the point simple and focused, and then we can pass it up to Eric to massage it further
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@raamdev @WuselDusel83 Danke! I was really happy to get webmention support added and I've started following IndieWeb community more closely. :) (twitter.com/_/status/735254716318371841)
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tantek KevinMarks, you can show the ridiculousness of the CSS just by showing it all inline like you do
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tantek that is very powerful
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tantek use small print for it too just to show how much there i
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tantek s/there i/there is
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Loqi tantek meant to say: use small print for it too just to show how much there is
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tantek and maybe even provide both the raw, and explicitly line-broken for better readability just to demonstrate how long and ridiculous it is
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KevinMarks u-fontSizeMicro
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tantek start your blog post at "lurking within frameworks that ..."
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singpolyma u-big-fontSizeMicro u-small-fontSizeNormal u-medium-fontSizeMicro ;) gotta be responsive
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tantek KevinMarks: s/When u- means <style>/When u- means style=/
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tantek and see the above for more expansion on that
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tantek feel free to borrow my words
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tantek alright lets see what else we can filter out
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tantek in addition to rejecting any u- with capital letters, how about rejecting any with numbers too? http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#ignore_u-camelCase_properties
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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tantek e.g. microformats2 parsers MUST IGNORE u-* classnames where the * has any numerals (0-9).
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KevinMarks I like 'reject things that aren't URLs' for u-
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KevinMarks if we can define that
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tantek nope that's much harder
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tantek so I'd say punt on that
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tantek because of relative URLs etc