#indiewebcamp 2016-05-23

2016-05-23 UTC
wolftune, rossdavis, colintedford, torrorist, yakker, mlncn, tantek and tbbrown joined the channel
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GWG I feel like I have not accomplished enough to show anything surprising at The Summit
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tantek GWG, how about the IndieWeb plugin default support for rel=me and IndieAuth? That's kind of a big deal for helping WordPress users get started on the IndieWeb
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aaronpk acti-link: thanks for the bug report. You should see "0" as your author name in webmention.io now
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GWG tantek: It is functionally working, but it is visually unappealing.
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aaronpk (at least for new webmentions)
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tantek GWG, that's a great thing to demo then, and then ask for help with the design!
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tantek perfect example (on both parts) of what IndieWebCamp / IndieWeb Summit is about
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tantek getting *something* done, proudly showing what you got done, identifying what you need help with, and asking for help with it!
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tantek this is a pattern that nearly all of us fall into, and it's why we as a community are much more than the sum of our parts
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GWG tantek: Unless I get more done before that.
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tantek That's the spirit! :)
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GWG I got stalled for a long time on SVG icons.
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GWG I don't know why.
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tantek Yes I'm procrastinating on SVG icons for example that reason
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tantek s/example/exactly
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Loqi tantek meant to say: Yes I'm procrastinating on SVG icons for exactly that reason
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tantek (and that kind of typo-fail = time to get food. bbiab)
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GWG I couldn't figure out the implementation I wanted.
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torrorist GWG: i'll def be interested to talk wordpress stuffs with you at the summit…i had to hack together a rel=me link in a sidebar widget (not difficult for me to figure out, but a cleaner version would be awesome!).
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GWG torrorist: I have one in the repository already. But no one noticed it
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torrorist GWG: see, and this is another reason why i wanna chat with you more. i know there are wordpress plugins for better indieweb functionality, but finding them all is something i haven't had time for yet.
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KartikPrabhu are they not documented on \Wordpress?
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GWG torrorist: I have a lot of thoughts about that.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Still needs more work.
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torrorist GWG: well, cool. i'm def looking forward to chatting more about it!
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GWG torrorist: I look forward to it as well.
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GWG The problem with WordPress, also an advantage, is a plugin architecture means you can build the same thing a variety of ways.
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GWG It is why there has been a philosophy of trying to keep each piece of functionality separate. But that is worthy of more discussion because of the reverse effect.
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torrorist yep, it's what i love/hate about wordpress :-)
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GWG Which is why I defend criticisms of how things have grown up while still trying to improve them.
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acti-link aaronpk: thanks for the bug fix. That was fast! Do you have an idea of a timeframe for the implementation of the deletion feature in Webmention.io?
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npdoty I've written up instructions for migrating a personal site to HTTPS on WebFaction, including how to use a utility to get/renew Let's Encrypt certificates
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npdoty and posted it to my email blog: http://bcc.npdoty.name/directions-to-migrate-your-WebFaction-site-to-HTTPS
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Loqi [nick@npdoty.name] directions to migrate your WebFaction site to HTTPS
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tantek npdoty++ awesome!
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Loqi npdoty has 9 karma
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tantek what is WebFaction
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WebFaction" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Lx
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npdoty feedback would be welcome
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npdoty WebFaction is a pretty straightforward shared webhost
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loqi.me created /WebFaction (+80) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-22/line/1463967822961 and dfn added by npdoty" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek heh
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npdoty I don't know if you want that on the wiki, though it seems accurate
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tantek we have a bunch of /webhosting providers documented - based on personal experience by folks in the community - please go ahead and add /WebFaction to that list too!
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npdoty yeah, looks like it's already listed there
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npdoty.name edited /web_hosting (+123) "/* Shared Hosting */ my webfaction use/experience" (view diff)
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npdoty waves
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[kylewm] acti-link: I suspect aaronpk would welcome contributions too if you are excited about adding delete support to wm.io :)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Plan for Drupal 8" by HongPong https://www.drupal.org/node/2687129
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[kevinmarks] Asking for a friend: what's a good way to set up a gallery in Kirby?
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-220) "/* Colin Tedford */ Shorten intro." (view diff)
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kylewm KevinMarks: your intuition was right that woodwind is timing out on Twitter feeds
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Loqi [indieweb] "Frequent pattern: 1. Someone tweets unclear insults at #indieweb 2. We engage, ask what's up? 3. They promise detailed blog post soon 4. ..." https://kylewm.com/2016/05/frequent-pattern-1-someone-tweets-unclear-insults
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: would be grest if your notes are arranged as "in-reply-to" your reply, replies to your posts. e.g. https://snarfed.org/2016-05-22_kyle-mahan-instead-of-asking-for-clarification-or-arguing the current pattern is a bit disorienting
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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miklb hmm. Got syndicate-to working with Quill, but I think since I have to wait for Jekyll to build it won't post the tweet since the link initially is a 404 :-(
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miklb or I misunderstand how that is suppose to work. Which is completely possible.
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@m_ott @m_ott Hm. @netzintelligenz now liked two tweets that mention the same article. That's why he appears twice in the #webmention section. (twitter.com/_/status/734623660863016960)
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kylewm miklb: you're using bridgy publish to send the tweet right?
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miklb kylewm I don't think so. Using Quill, I connect to Twitter. I also sorted out adding `syndicate-to` but the tweet doesn't post.
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kylewm hmm, Quill doesn't connect to Twitter as far as I know
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miklb But I had the same problem with bridgy and worked around that by sending the webmentions in my build process after the new post was built and published.
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miklb kylewm http://cdn.miklb.com/images/Settings_2016-05-23_01-59-14.png
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voxpelli miklb: do Quill maybe just send some additional metadata that's added to the post?
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kylewm huh!
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miklb voxpelli it does add the mf-syndicate-to in the Front Matter
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voxpelli miklb: great! Then one can do something post-build to send it, like eg. chaining something onto the PuSH-feed
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miklb PuSH-feed?
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voxpelli Tricky thing is that after sending one has to update the post with a link to the tweet
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voxpelli miklb: Pubsubhubbub
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miklb ah
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miklb all in all, one step closer :-)
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voxpelli I have that set up for my site and thinking I can chain the rest of my services on top of that rather than adding more GitHub-specific stuff :)
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kylewm miklb: so I'm looking at the Quill code, I see a bit to post likes and reposts to Twitter directly, but nothing to POSSE notes
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KevinMarks kylewm: I subscribed to the atom version of my twitter feed, which is a bit big
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kylewm KevinMarks: you're not the only one :)
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miklb kylewm oh. That's useful to now. Thanks.
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miklb s/now/know/
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Loqi miklb meant to say: kylewm oh. That's useful to know. Thanks.
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KevinMarks as I follow ~7000 people though
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voxpelli kylewm: that could be because one probably don't add a permalink to ones post that points to the likes/retweets, which one would for a note
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kylewm @sensiblemn follows almost that many too
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aaronpk Quill supports favoriting and retweeting via the Twitter API directly, but that's all
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miklb aaronpk completely understandable. Just misunderstanding on my part
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kylewm aaronpk: why's that? historical accident?
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voxpelli Are there any services like Telegram that can help with the rest of the tweeting? Having a slight memory that there are
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aaronpk It supports Instagram likes too but I guess that will stop working on June 1
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aaronpk kylewm: I added it when I was experimenting with one click actions on Twitter.com
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miklb voxpelli unrelated, I'm also testing adding search with elasticsearch/React
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aaronpk That was back when you could still inject JS on Twitter via a bookmarklet
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aaronpk i still use it with the current bookmarklet you can get from quill, but it only works on tweet permalinks now.
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aaronpk And now it has to do a full page load rather than do it all inline
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aaronpk i should probably rip out some of the old code now actually
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Loqi yea
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kylewm voxpelli: not exactly sure what you're asking for about Telegram, but maybe thinking of https://silo.pub?
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kylewm deploys new version of Woodwind, crosses fingers that I won't have an inbox full of timeouts in the morning
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voxpelli kylewm: thinking something that find my to be, but not yet, syndicated posts and sends them to correct place + updating the post over Micropub with the permalink a of those syndicated posts
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voxpelli miklb: interesting!
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miklb voxpelli there was a demo during the jekyllconf day on the subject. The person that gave the demo works for bonsai and offered a free sandbox dev account with a public read API so I'm going to test it out. If nothing else, get some familiarity with the tech.
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cweiske so you'll use react for the frontend. how do you want to crawl/index your pages?
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miklb they've written a Jekyll gem to assist with that. When you build the site, you update the index.
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cweiske ah. so you'll only index your own content, not e.g. sites you linked to
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cweiske how does your document structure look like?
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cweiske (elasticsearch doc)
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miklb cweiske you're getting into subject matter I haven't fully grasped yet :)
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miklb http://allizad.com/code/2016/05/06/elasticserch-for-jekyll/
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cweiske access denied
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cweiske http://allizad.com/2016/05/06/elasticserch-for-jekyll/index.html works
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miklb weird. I had that problem with another of her posts, and she said everything was fixed.
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cweiske the /code/ in there is probably the cause
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miklb maybe that's what she fixed and I had a cached link to the old URL in my browser
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cweiske ah. it simply sends the whole text into elasticsearch; https://github.com/omc/searchyll/blob/master/lib/searchyll.rb
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cweiske I'm doing a bit more; I've ranked title, h1, h2..h6 and so higher than normal text; http://git.cweiske.de/phinde.git/blob/HEAD:/data/elasticsearch-mapping.json
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miklb cweiske you use Jekyll or some other static site?
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cweiske my blog is static, but I've my own private generator engine written in php
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cweiske my search engine is decoupled from it; it's a generic one
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cweiske which happens to index my own page :)
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cweiske http://search.cweiske.de/?q=web
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cweiske and linked pages
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miklb interesting.
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cweiske since I store the domain of the documents, I can limit the results to it: http://search.cweiske.de/?q=web&site=cweiske.de
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miklb I have zero experience with elasticsearch, but I see it useful for a WordPress project I'm working on so want to start to familiarize myself with it, figured my own site is a good place to start
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cweiske I chose it because it allows boosting of fields
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cweiske which is hard to do with mysql fulltext search
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cweiske .. and facetet search results
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cweiske .. and search term highlighting
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@JockelLohkamp @elfpavlik @indiewebcamp yes sure... @lightcoin invited @kevinmarks :) (twitter.com/_/status/734646968341909504)
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@kevinmarks @JockelLohkamp @elfpavlik @indiewebcamp @lightcoin also other indieweb people coming (twitter.com/_/status/734647378737696768)
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@HongPong .@Aelkus yes @withknown is very indieweb. @benwerd is the php dev (twitter.com/_/status/734648912334704640)
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@m_ott First “real” webmention on my site: a reply by @webrocker. Thank you Tom, also for the kind words! ☞ https://www.webrocker.de/2016/05/23/beyond-tellerrand-2016-matthias-ott/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/734650483239997440)
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+413) (view diff)
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@jkphl In only 2 days we'll meet for the 1st Homebrew Website Club in Nuremberg. Still plenty of space to join! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/734651769146486784)
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@kevinmarks RT @jkphl In only 2 days we'll meet for the 1st Homebrew Website Club in Nuremberg. Still plenty of space to join! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/734652103302385664)
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@jkphl Hack on your #indieweb site together with like-minded creators? We're already 6 of them — just drop by on Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg (twitter.com/_/status/734653084790579200)
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petermolnar morning everyone
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petermolnar any news?
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cweiske the third high-profile owncloud employee resigned... I'm really wondering what's going on there: https://statuscode.ch/2016/05/farewell-owncloud-inc/ after http://karlitschek.de/2016/04/big-changes-i-am-leaving-owncloud-inc-today/ and http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2016/05/moving-on-from-owncloud.html
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Loqi big changes: I am leaving ownCloud, Inc. today
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Loqi [indieweb] "“Artisanal Retro-Futurism ⊗ Team-Scale Anarcho-Syndicalism” sounds like #indieweb to me http://www.exampler.com/blog/2009/05/02/artisanal-retro-futurism-⊗-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism/" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/artisanal-retro-futurism-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism-sounds-like-indieweb-to-me-blog20090502artisanal-retro-futurism--team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism
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cweiske longurl++
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Loqi longurl has 1 karma
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[kevinmarks] Not quite sure how that happened
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cweiske http://www.socialsearchme.com/ shows indiewebcamp "Search" page?
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sknebel cweiske: owned by tantek
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@Inkwater_Masha Understanding Fonts & Typography http://www.thebookdesigner.com/understanding-fonts-typography/?platform=hootsuite #self-pub #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/734742057009438720)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-2
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-1
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-5
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-6
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-3
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-4
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Loqi [indieweb] "Take a look at https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ... it's not the best UX in the world, but better than nothing!" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/take-a-look-at-https-snarfed-org-easy-indieweb-interactions-7
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kylewm :facepalm:
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snarfed agreed. "not the best UX in the world" probably only deserves four or five, tops
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 8 hours, 58 minutes ago: would be grest if your notes are arranged as "in-reply-to" your reply, replies to your posts. e.g. https://snarfed.org/2016-05-22_kyle-mahan-instead-of-asking-for-clarification-or-arguing the current pattern is a bit disorienting http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-22/line/1463981681571
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kylewm Hahaha
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Loqi hehe
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kylewm Snarfed++
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Loqi Snarfed has 222 karma
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petermolnar freebie website template: http://tympanus.net/codrops/2016/04/29/freebie-synthetica-one-page-website-template/ - what could possibly go wrong with a one site page with incredibly bad contrast?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Is there a way to use android Share functions for a Known instance? #Known #indieweb" by Hugo Roy https://hugoroy.eu/2016/05/is-there-a-way-to-use-android-share-functions-for
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[kylewm] oh boy starting out the week with a GitHub bug
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bear yea, we are all full team standby this morning - a great start to the week
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@aegibson73 https://aaronegibson.com is back on the #indieweb. Well, I have a ways to go, but MicroPub works. (twitter.com/_/status/734793161483096064)
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sandro tantek, aaronpk, anyone, is there a short and simple and compelling answer to why folk should use webmention instead of trackback or pingback
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Loqi sandro: tantek left you a message on 5/12 at 12:58pm: are you coming to the Leaders Summit? Can you RSVP here accordingly? https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Leaders#RSVP http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-12/line/1463083099732
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hawke.org sandro edited /2016/Leaders (+46) "/* Regrets */" (view diff)
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aaronpk yes i can add something to the wiki
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aaronpk i'm surprised we don't already have a sentence on the wiki
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aaronpk oh there is
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention-faq#Why_webmention_instead_of_pingback
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tantek pretty sure that's in the ... yeah that :)
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aaronpk and this is the main reason why it's better than trackback: http://indiewebcamp.com/Trackback#Lack_of_link_verification
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Webmention-faq (+35) "/* Why webmention instead of Trackback */ correct link... not really sure it needs a link anymore" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Webmention-faq (+0) "/* Why webmention instead of Trackback */ grrr capitalization in article titles" (view diff)
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tantek There's lots more reasons why Webmention > Pingback > Trackback, but the documented reasons should be sufficient for anyone seriously considering implementation.
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aaronpk we need a one-sentence summary of them that is more appropriate for a blog post about webmention
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tantek Webmention is simpler & more reliable than Pingback, more thoroughly specified, and designed specifically to support rich social web interactions such as cross-site comments, likes, reposts, RSVPs, and more.
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tantek How's that?
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aaronpk that's great
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aaronpk is it worth mentioning explicitly that it supports update and deletes?
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tantek yes of course
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tantek how could I forget
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tantek Webmention is simpler & more reliable than Pingback, more thoroughly specified (e.g. explicit support for updates & deletes), and designed specifically to support rich social web interactions such as cross-site comments, likes, reposts, RSVPs, and more.
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tantek there you go
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aaronpk 👍
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aaronpk sandro: ^^
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, looking up the actual pingback spec, its just something on someone's personal website
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tantek "someone" - just Hixie ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme doesn't know who hixie is, and to me thats just someone random
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tantek editor of WHATWG HTML (the living HTML spec), for about 10 years now
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[shaners] ben_thatmustbeme: That’s one of the things I love about the web.
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KartikPrabhu [shaners]: agreed!
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[shaners] Hixie is just some rando to you. You and he are on the same level. On the web, all of us are.
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tantek (basically, the hardest spec editing "job" on the Web)
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ben_thatmustbeme trackback's official spec is on some random software's site
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ben_thatmustbeme (moveable type)
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ben_thatmustbeme [shaners]: exactly my point
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[shaners] ben_thatmustbeme: But yeah, he’s the rando who maintains the final edit of the HTML(5) spec.
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tantek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hixie
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ben_thatmustbeme but publishes the final edit under w3c, thats a bit different
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[shaners] Not quite.
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[shaners] whatwg publish their html spec. w3c also publishes their html spec. Standards™!
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tantek Note that Pingback is not mentioned on Hixie's wikipedia page - ben_thatmustbeme feel free to add it since you discovered "its just something on someone's personal website" :)
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, yes
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ben_thatmustbeme i stand corrected
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tantek it's really not useful to debate the minutae of HTML(5) publishing, unless you really want to get into an intricate rathole, for which #indiechat is probably more appropriate (none of that particular minutae is indieweb related AFAIK)
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KartikPrabhu whateg has some "Living Standard" thingie which is different from the w3c process ?
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KartikPrabhu I think
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tantek KartikPrabhu: like I said, rathole
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KartikPrabhu ok tantek beat me to it!
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KartikPrabhu anyway for what it's worth, ping back is pretty widely implemented for being specd on some "random site"
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KartikPrabhu so webmention has to compete with that and not the fact that it is some official spec (even though that is cool)
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[shaners] To most people, our wiki is just some random site too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Webmention (+266) "Add Tantek's one liner to a Why section" (view diff)
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tantek huh, though I certainly appreciate the adding to the wiki, I though Webmention used to have a "Why" section that maybe got moved in the spec / extra stuff separation process? aaronpk ?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: going to be pedantic for a moment, pingback is pretty widely *deployed*. I believe there are actually many MORE implementations of Webmention now.
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Why
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aaronpk oh
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aaronpk hah
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aaronpk i thought it was there before
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tantek also, plumbing debates are not a particularly good user-centric framing of a "Why"
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. my only point was that implementation is the main test rather than whether it is official spec-ed
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tantek shaners, could you move that summary to this FAQ instead? https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention-faq#Why_webmention_instead_of_pingback
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aaronpk i was about to say that
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tantek KartikPrabhu: only in the short term. in the long term implementations either fail at edge cases due to lack of good spec, or you get implementations *defining* the details, which makes it *harder* for other implementations (they have to reverse engineer), which then hurts interoperability again (higher bar for additional implementations)
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[shaners] sure
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Webmention (-266) "/* Remove Why */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: fair!
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Webmention-faq (+255) "/* Why webmention instead of pingback */" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: speaking of implementations, note that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingback lists implementations like in the first paragraph! But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmention does not! Could you perhaps use similar language to add implementations there? (since we have like what 27+ ?)
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GWG Afternoon
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I stay away from wikipedia editing... sorry :)
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: its more of a question of knowing that its the same spec as everyone else. The only reason I have to trust that the spec is correct is that wikipedia links to it... which isn't much trust. Add that to the fact that its on a .ch domain name, and going to the root directory links to his personal blog and its not a ton of trust. However, W3C is a much more recognized name. if there were an RFC, or some
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ben_thatmustbeme other group of people reporting to edit it. Hell even just getting a domain name that is pingback.net or something has a bit of a higher level of trust than that. hell i could make pingback.net and publish a modified version of the spec and confuse everything.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: aww - but it's fun! I mean especially do it with a logged in account of course
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I have read too many Talk pages to think it is fun! I'll edit things on the indiewebcamp wiki sure but not going over to wikipedia
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tantek KartikPrabhu: heh ok. perhaps I can do an informal break-time mini-session on "How to successfully edit Wikipedia" at IndieWeb Summit
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KevinMarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkback is interesting
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sandro Indeed.
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KevinMarks though not quite complete on webmention advantages
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tantek hey aaronpk I note on https://webmention.rocks/ that it says "The formal test suite for testing Webmention receivers is still in progress." do you think we have a chance of getting something working there for IWS?
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tantek is still working on being able to "push button" pass the Update tests and the Delete test.
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aaronpk i'm not sure i have enough time to build that out. it will be a little more complicated since i'll have to build a login mechanism for it
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bear do you have some thoughts or plan written down for that?
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aaronpk well all the tests that need to happen are here https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/tree/master/implementation-reports#receiving
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tantek bear - that's a good point
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tantek perhaps if we can help collaborate on a plan, we can at least move it forward a bit by figuring out the pieces
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aaronpk basically the tool should log you in via indieauth, then provide a UI where you can drop a link to your post, and the tool will generate a source page with your URL as the target, and try to send a webmention to it
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bear that's the type of flow/notes I was looking for - I could help do that with python to get a POC going
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tantek I wonder if there's a way to batch / automate the tests based on a single loging
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tantek s/loging/login
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I wonder if there's a way to batch / automate the tests based on a single login
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tantek that is, login, and then have the option of push-button trying one test at a time, or if you're confident, push-button try them all
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aaronpk some of this was already done on checkmention.appspot.com but it appears to be down
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snarfed aaronpk: it's working fine for me
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aaronpk oh cool
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snarfed authed in and it sent me a handful of wms: https://snarfed.org/about#comment-2598815
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aaronpk last time i tried i got a weird error
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] about
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tantek hey that's another difference for webmention. it has a half-complete test suite. I don't think pingback has an official one
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016 (+1853) "/* Participating */ add hotel/transit info" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i think i could make my WM endpoint support a seperate Media endpoint pretty easily aaronpk
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aaronpk WM?
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ben_thatmustbeme MP
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ben_thatmustbeme brainfart
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ben_thatmustbeme client will take a bit more
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ben_thatmustbeme since the only client i have that does photos is mobilepub, which is horrible honestly
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ben_thatmustbeme i want to rework one to work entirely offline, cache its own content, etc
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aaronpk cool. it's most useful for clients like the quill editor, where it's going to upload multiple photos in a blog post.
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hawke.org sandro edited /2016/Guest_List (+505) "rsvp+" (view diff)
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hawke.org sandro edited /2016/Guest_List (-1) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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hawke.org sandro edited /2016/Guest_List (-9) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks if people are interested in decentralized web summit, I have a discount code, ping me https://www.eventbrite.com/e/decentralized-web-summit-locking-the-web-open-registration-24303756189
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snarfed KevinMarks: cool. you're going?
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KevinMarks Yes, I'm going
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snarfed cool, see you there
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[shaners] What is Decentralized Web Summit?
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[shaners] What is Federated Social Web Summit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Decentralized Web Summit" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ly
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Loqi The Federated Social Web Summit was an annual event from 2010-2012 http://indiewebcamp.com/Federated_Social_Web_Summit
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tantek you know I think there was a previous Decentralized (or maybe it was Distributed) Web Summit
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tantek in like 2012
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Loqi [indieweb] "“Artisanal Retro-Futurism ⊗ Team-Scale Anarcho-Syndicalism” sounds like #indieweb to me http://www.exampler.com/blog/2009/05/02/artisanal-retro-futurism-⊗-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism/" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/artisanal-retro-futurism-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism-sounds-like-indieweb-to-me-blog20090502artisanal-retro-futurism--team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism
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KevinMarks there were probably lots of them in different places ;)
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[shaners] zing!
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KevinMarks Decentralised Web Foothill
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KevinMarks Artisanal Retro-Futurism is very Tomorrowland
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tantek ears perk up
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KevinMarks hm, loqi broke the url
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KevinMarks http://www.exampler.com/blog/2009/05/02/artisanal-retro-futurism-⊗-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism/
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KevinMarks meh
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tantek yeah I think you're gonna need to % that
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KevinMarks http://www.exampler.com/blog/2009/05/02/artisanal-retro-futurism-%E2%8A%97-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism/
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KevinMarks safari copy doesn't escape
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tantek http://www.exampler.com/blog/2009/05/02/artisanal-retro-futurism-%E2%8A%97-team-scale-anarcho-syndicalism/ <-- Firefox does
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KevinMarks chrome does
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rhiaro snarfed: yeah I'm going too. Not showing up on registration page yet for some reason
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KevinMarks fixed in my post anyway
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snarfed rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 204 karma
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KevinMarks yay, glad you are coming Amy
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Loqi woot
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KevinMarks (I wasn't sure as you weren't on the site)
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[shaners] Nice that there will be an IWC contingent there to at least report back about what happens. Bonus, to help shape the conversation.
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tantek is going to reflect on how to best constructively participate before he picks up a discount code ticket
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rhiaro Hey, they're selfdogfooding a bunch of the different tech they're into http://www.decentralizedweb.net/#decentralized-section
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[kylewm] I listened to a good interview with Juan Benet about IPFS this weekend https://twitter.com/changelog/status/734025211369164804
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@changelog New show! #204 – IPFS (InterPlanetary File System) with Juan Benet (@juanbenet) https://changelog.com/204/?utm_content=bufferf51b3&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=changelog&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/734025211369164804)
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[kylewm] Definitely sounds like he did his homework
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KevinMarks though those are actually URLs that resolve via DNS and http so…
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KevinMarks OK, not the 2nd one
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snarfed most of them seem to be working on much more ambitious, boil-the-ocean stuff. it'll be interesting to see whether they grok and/or care about indieweb, and vice versa
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sknebel the ipfs-link is through a gateway *I think*, but if I try to access it through the the "official" gateway the URLs for CSS and images break
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sknebel and of course it embeds maps.googleapis.com, GA, eventbrite and the CDN stuff following those
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sknebel don't have native IPFS client installed, can't test that
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tantek is going to repeat the point that unless there are people working on IPFS that have worked on NASA/JPL missions to other planets, specifically the protocols to communicate with planetary probes, then the "P" is more like "pure hyperbole"
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Loqi [indieweb] "Plan for Drupal 8" by HongPong https://www.drupal.org/node/2687129
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aaronpk I'm guessing the "interplanetary" term is a nod to how TimBL's first "world wide" web page was really just a computer under his desk
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bear pfft, I doubt any of them have ever tried to do tcp across packet radio or satellite links, let alone planetary scale
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@kevinmarks When silos' URL abuse gets nested: #indieweb https://twitter.com/zachleat/status/734764603645825025 (twitter.com/_/status/734860652192268288)
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tantek bear, the flipside of my statement is that I remain remotely hopeful that someone working on IPFS *was*/is from NASA/JPL
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bear that would be awesome indeed
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tantek has enough contacts that that would be tempting to pursue for reals
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aaronpk I always wanted to get involved in the Ham radio community when they were starting to do IP over radio
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tantek aaronpk: re: that, it was his browser that he called WorldWideWeb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldWideWeb
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Loqi WorldWideWeb
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bear one of my early computer programming tasks was to interface an Z100 to a man portable satellite radio for message traffic
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tantek ok that's pretty epic
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bear z100 -> serial -> encryption box -> satellite -- and the reverse
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tantek I'm just going to leave this here: "Berners-Lee initially considered releasing it under the GNU General Public License, but eventually opted for public domain to maximize corporate support."
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bear crazy stuff we did, some is still classified :/
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tantek what is copyright?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Copyright
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KevinMarks Vint Cerf was involved wiht the JPL Interplanetary Internet work
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tantek citation?
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tantek KevinMarks: I recall the opposite, that his proposals for adding "broadcast" to IP to solve the problems for satellites and farther probes was soundly rejected by engineers that actually work on said things.
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bear for those who use GitHub pages for webserver -- https://github.com/blog/2172-github-pages-now-runs-jekyll-3-1
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KevinMarks I was remembering this: http://www.wired.com/2013/05/vint-cerf-interplanetary-internet/
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Loqi Skip Article Header. Skip to: Start of Article.
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tantek presumably that would just be interplanetarynet, no need for two inter-s
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snarfed you could have an interplanetary intranet :P
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snarfed presumably nasa, esa, etc all do
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tantek snarfed, doubt they have an actual intranet with planetary probes (too open to exploits/vulns), but rather a dedicated comms connection (not network) to JPL, which then provides access via a console of some sort. Doubtful there's *any* automatic routing of anything through that console to the probes.
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamp:Copyrights (+1036) "template for logo, dfn, ok to contribute your own copyrights, precedents, see also" (view diff)
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tantek what is copyright?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Copyright
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tantek what is copyright?
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Loqi All text and images contributed to the IndieWebCamp.com wiki are released to the public domain per CC0, as they were required to be copyright owned by the contributor prior to contribution and agreed to CC0 upon wiki editing, or already in the public domain or equivalent when contributed https://indiewebcamp.com/Copyright
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tantek there we go
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tantek now with precedents, including TimBL for WWW software, and original HTTP and HTML specs!
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colintedford.com created /copyrights (+24) "redirect to canonical" (view diff)
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tantek is pretty happy that https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamp:Copyrights#Precdents has examples of software, a protocol, and a data format. cc: shaners
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colintedford Do double redirects not work on the wiki? copyrights->Copyrights gives me a page that says it's a redirect.
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colintedford Also, copyright, Copyright, and Copyrights also claim to be redirected, but to what I don't know -- I guessed from the title that Copyrights was canonical.
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colintedford Oh, wait, the title has IndieWebCamp: in it.
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[shaners] tantek: looks good, T
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colintedford.com edited /copyrights (+13) "fix link -- double redirects don't work?" (view diff)
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tantek thanks colintedford
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tantek yeah I have no idea why MediaWiki stops after one redirect
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colintedford MediaWIki mysteries
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colintedford I wish it would ignore case in urls -- makes a lot of busywork
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colintedford (I can see how it might matter on Wikipedia)
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tantek MediaWiki mysteries indeed
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tantek you could of course work on supporting your own wiki pages on your own domain, ala: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki-projects#Brainstorming :)
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colintedford That *is* an itch for me!
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tantek yes me as well, but pretty far down on the list
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colintedford I would like versioning and easy editing on blog posts, too
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tantek yes!
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tantek what is versioning
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "versioning" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Lz
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aaronpk by default mediawiki is case insensitive. we actually explicitly changed it to be case sensitive a long time ago
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colintedford But I have more basic stuff to deal w/ first
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colintedford aaronpk: huh, why so?
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aaronpk or rather, by default all pages are lowercase, but they are displayed with first letter caps
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aaronpk so things that should actually be lowercase are displayed wrong
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aaronpk and it's impossible to get it to display CamelCase or things like iPhone
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[kevinmarks] I did that with smallest federated wiki on my domain, then din't use it at all
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aaronpk (that may not be true anymore in newer versions, but was true at the time we installed mediawiki, in 2011)
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colintedford aaronpk: ah, that makes sense
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aaronpk you'll see a lot of things like that with the wiki :-) things that look super broken/awkward now, but they are there for some legacy mediawiki reason
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colintedford it seems like there should be a better way to handle that, except that would involve messing w/ MediaWiki, which is obvs not "better" :P
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aaronpk hey this is neat, a service that stores your data in your own Amazon S3 account https://www.s3io.com
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colintedford.com edited /wiki-projects (+11) "/* See Also */ edit(-post)" (view diff)
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aaronpk that's the kind of thing I want to see with Micropub some day
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[shaners] tantek: Here are higher res CC0 images.
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[shaners] http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/presskit/icons/zero.large.png
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[shaners] http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/presskit/icons/zero.svg
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[shaners] From: https://creativecommons.org/about/downloads/
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colintedford.com created /versioning (+262) "Stub dfn & see also. prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-23/line/1464042191012" (view diff)
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colintedford what is versioning?
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Loqi Versioning is the practice of keeping previous versions of a post or other work available (possibly through a record of edits) https://indiewebcamp.com/versioning
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tantek nice!
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@cindyfsolomon RT @hs0ucy #IndieWeb In a Nutshell:Own your: identity, domain, website, content, ui/ux, design, privacy and commerce ~ .. https://h.soucy.cc/2016/indieweb-in-a-nutshellown-your-identity-domain-website-content-uiux (twitter.com/_/status/734877554058924032)
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bear i've always wondered if IndieWeb would get to the point where auth+micropub == wiki
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colintedford.com created /versions (+21) "redirect to singular" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /versioning (+747) "stub why, how, indieweb examples none, software mediawiki, silo examples facebook, see also edit" (view diff)
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[kylewm] aaronpk: he claimed interplanetary was a nod to “Internet” being short for “intergalactic network” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergalactic_Computer_Network
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colintedford.com created /version (+143) "stub dfn, see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk lol "MEMORANDUM FOR: Members and Affiliates of the Intergalactic Computer Network" http://www.kurzweilai.net/memorandum-for-members-and-affiliates-of-the-intergalactic-computer-network
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Loqi Memorandum For Members and Affiliates of the Intergalactic Computer Network
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@m_ott @assbach Super, danke Dir! Na dann mal schauen, ob das Speichern von Avatar-Pics für Webmentions auf der Site nun endlich richtig tut… ;) (twitter.com/_/status/734879344020049921)
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colintedford.com edited /versioning (+4) "link post, change work->item" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /versioning (+187) "/* Software */ WordPress" (view diff)
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@m_ott @assbach Dann braucht Deine Seite nur noch einen ”žWebmention-Endpoint“, also muss die Webmentions verarbeiten können, die brid.gy sendet. (twitter.com/_/status/734882274739687425)
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tantek really. interesting. didn't realize wordpress saved versions of posts
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tantek.com edited /versioning (+11) "/* See also */ code - often kept in a versioning repository" (view diff)
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colintedford For some time now, though I vaguely remember hearing that their versioning had problems for a while (maybe still does?)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /versioning (+271) "/* SCM Examples */" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com created /Mercurial (+42) "Created page with "Mercurial is https://www.mercurial-scm.org"" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com created /Subversion (+42) "Created page with "Subversion is http://subversion.apache.org"" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com created /SVN (+24) "Redirected page to [[Subversion]]" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com created /svn (+24) "Redirected page to [[Subversion]]" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /versioning (+10) "/* WordPress */ maybe needs plugin to display publicly" (view diff)
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@uranther I successfully logged into http://indiewebcamp.com using my website, #IndieAuth + @github. That was cool! (twitter.com/_/status/734887426934640640)
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uranther what is HTTP2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HTTP2" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M0
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bear HTTP2 is an IETF working group project to define and standardize the successor to HTTP/1.1 that currently drives the modern world wide web, see https://http2.github.io for more.
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loqi.me created /HTTP2 (+204) "prompted by uranther https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-23/line/1464045806849 and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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uranther bear++
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Loqi bear has 133 karma
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jameswheaton.me edited /HTTP2 (+105) "Link to tool to test for HTTP/2 support" (view diff)
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colintedford.com uploaded /File:fb-edit-menu.png ""Edit post" menu selection of Facebook, 2016-05-23."
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KevinMarks anyone using git-based publishing has versions, right?
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KevinMarks eg https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/commits/master/web/htmlversustex.html
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snarfed s/git/any vcs/
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snarfed also eg https://github.com/snarfed/snarfed.org/commits/master
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snarfed (i'm lazy and don't usually write out messages for every commit, but otherwise...)
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aaronpk apparently i made a bunch of startssl certs around this time last year. i've been getting a bunch of expiration notices.
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colintedford.com uploaded /File:fb-edited.png "A comment on Facebook showing "Edited" status, 2016-05-23."
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[shaners] Time to move them to letsencrypt?
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[shaners] Did the channel hear about Heroku no longer charging for SSL?
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[shaners] https://blog.heroku.com/archives/2016/5/18/announcing_heroku_free_ssl_beta_and_flexible_dyno_hours
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notenoughneon.com edited /versioning (+236) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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aaronpk I actually moved most of them to a wildcard cert from startssl so they're good for 2 years now
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colintedford.com uploaded /File:fb-edit-hist.png "A popup on Facebook showing the edit history of a comment, 2016-05-23."
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KevinMarks snarfed: do you have an example of a post that changed?
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snarfed KevinMarks: all of the recent commits on that link changed existing posts
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snarfed eg https://github.com/snarfed/snarfed.org/commit/81d120de4981567cd3da055dc712b0196c8c2c9f changed /beer, /books, /movies, and a few others
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colintedford.com edited /versioning (+147) "/* Facebook */ screenshots" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /versioning (+489) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)