#indiewebcamp 2016-05-26

2016-05-26 UTC
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aaronpk awesome
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[kevinmarks] Do you want one from unmung.com too?
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willnorris [kevinmarks]: what library is unmung running?
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[kevinmarks] the python one with a couple of tweaks, so not different from kyle's much
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[kevinmarks] unless you're on the BBC recipes site
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[kevinmarks] I did normalise unicode to utf8
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[kevinmarks] so that is different
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[kevinmarks] http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#unicode_generation_in_JSON
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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@aegibson73 This is a long term goal of mine. @chimo already has his setup. https://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/735633915965235202)
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[kylewm] willnorris: does this look all right? http://mf2.kylewm.com/?url=https://willnorris.com/2016/05/indieweb-summit&parser=html5lib&callback=test
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KevinMarks hm, thats a novel approach to a webmention endpoint
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KevinMarks <link rel="webmention" href="https://aaronegibson.com/?webmention=endpoint" />
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KevinMarks it already has a parameter
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KevinMarks which I think is breaking both my and Known's WM sending
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[kylewm] kevinmarks: wordpress's has always been like that
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KevinMarks oh
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KevinMarks hm, OK, I
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KevinMarks ll try again
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aaronpk Yeah it's always been that way but I also added explicit text to the spec to allow that. And a webmention.rocks test checks that as well
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KevinMarks ah, OK
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GWG I think there was a reason
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KevinMarks I wonder why it is failing then
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KevinMarks hm, I need to flush bad tasks
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KevinMarks ah trailing /
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willnorris kylewm: looks great, thanks!
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KevinMarks willnorris: here you go http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2016%2F05%2Findieweb-summit&html=&callback=test
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@IndieWebCampDE Mit 6 Leuten hat der gestrige erste Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg hat einen guten Start hingelegt! #indieweb https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskxboA2T (twitter.com/_/status/735752598070792192)
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@jkphl Nice pics of yesterday's 1st Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg w/ @schmittlein77 @egoexpress. Thx @iwontsignuphere! https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/735752598070792192 (twitter.com/_/status/735753148665454592)
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@dkreuz RT @IndieWebCampDE Mit 6 Leuten hat der gestrige erste Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg hat einen guten Start hingelegt! #indieweb https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskxboA2T (twitter.com/_/status/735753197994704896)
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@egoexpress RT @IndieWebCampDE Mit 6 Leuten hat der gestrige erste Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg hat einen guten Start hingelegt! #indieweb https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskxboA2T (twitter.com/_/status/735759349419642882)
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jkphl.is created /User:Julieannenoying.Com (+430) "Created page with "= <span class="p-name">Juliane Schütz</span> = <span class="p-role">Web designer & Photographer</span> from <span class="p-locality">Nürnberg</span>, <span class="p-country-nam..."" (view diff)
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jkphl.is created /Template:julieannenoying (+163) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/profile_image}} [[User:julieannenoying.com|Juliane Schütz]]</span>"" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (+272) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club (-12) "/* Nürnberg */" (view diff)
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jkphl.is moved /User:Julieannenoying.Com to /User:Julieannenoying.com "Need to lowercase the TLD"
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cweiske the 4th owncloud employee leaves; http://blog.schiessle.org/2016/05/26/road-ahead/
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Loqi cweiske: tantek left you a message 17 hours, 26 minutes ago: yeah I'm looking at obsoleteing that Atom feed, preferring to use h-feed http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-25/line/1464194621059
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cweiske what happens when an indieweb site gets lots of comments, likes and shares: https://adactio.com/journal/10708
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Regressive Web Apps
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cweiske is there a view helper which gives me the first variable that has content?
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cweiske e.g. when I have variable "defaultmail" and "contact.mail", I want to use contact.mail if it is filled. if not, it should fall back to defaultmail
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cweiske like <cool:firstof val="{contact.mail}" val2="{defaultmail}"/>
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@synvila Are there any people from #indiewebcamp who does "microcasts" or similar audio posts? Looking for stuff to follow and be inspired by. (twitter.com/_/status/735800729458364416)
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@MarkupUA Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) http://all-markup-news.com/webmention-w3c-candidate-recommendation-call-implementation (twitter.com/_/status/735816261163229184)
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@iwontsignuphere <3 http://sickonsunday.tumblr.com/post/144954064464/remember-those-days-when-we-didnt-have-fun-at#_=_ @webrocker @justb3a @raquelpgodinho @foobartel @fredericmarx @jkphl @t @aaronpk @adactio @indiewebcamp & EE :) (twitter.com/_/status/735817063957188609)
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@foobartel @iwontsignuphere @webrocker @justb3a @raquelpgodinho @fredericmarx @jkphl @t @aaronpk @adactio @indiewebcamp 👍🏼 (twitter.com/_/status/735818334805975043)
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@webrocker @iwontsignuphere @justb3a @raquelpgodinho @foobartel @fredericmarx @jkphl @t @aaronpk @adactio @indiewebcamp OMG! bananaaaaaaaa (twitter.com/_/status/735819119744913408)
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@raquelpgodinho @iwontsignuphere @webrocker @justb3a @foobartel @fredericmarx @jkphl @t @aaronpk @adactio @indiewebcamp great day ;) (twitter.com/_/status/735834925509836800)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Attending IndieWeb Summit 2016" by Will Norris https://willnorris.com/2016/05/indieweb-summit
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@jeena @bagder we in the IndieWebCamp ... more at https://jeena.net/notes/693 (twitter.com/_/status/735837788944404480)
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@marmelab RT @kevinmarks via @smagdali, the final endpoint of u- means style= https://github.com/marmelab/universal.css (previously http://www.kevinmarks.com/u-means-style.html ) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/735839986663215104)
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aaronpk "microcasts"?
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aaronpk I didn't even know that was a thing
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aaronpk tho it appears "microcast" refers to audio segments that are about 5-10 minutes. i would have expected shorter, like radio news segment length.
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek At least in SF, the HWC quiet writing hour has been growing quite consistently, enough to put it on more equal footing IMO in the descriptions
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@bagder "curlable" http://indiewebcamp.com/curlable / via @jeena (twitter.com/_/status/735858341042356224)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+30) "/* What */ expand quiet writing, rewrite description of meetup / hack night" (view diff)
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tantek thoughts? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#What
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (-66) "/* When */" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk,benwerd,KevinMarks,kylewm Since quiet writing hour has been growing at HWC SF, I've updated the HWC description put it on more equal footing, and emphasized the IndieWeb demos more (which have gotten good feedback) Thoughts? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#What
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@Thuemer @iwontsignuphere @webrocker @justb3a @raquelpgodinho @foobartel @fredericmarx @jkphl @t @aaronpk @adactio @indiewebcamp Banaaanaa 😂😂 (twitter.com/_/status/735860319768219648)
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aaronpk cool!
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tantek wat
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aaronpk http://66.media.tumblr.com/dd801f6707f121e8f61189b36d3ce893/tumblr_o7sbg5AIep1qcamjvo2_500.gif
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ben_thatmustbeme its watching @indiewebcamp?
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aaronpk that's @webrocker
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, duh, n/m
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tantek hilarious
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tantek catches up on logs from overnight
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[kylewm] tantek: I think those changes look good. Can you make it a little more apparent that Quiet writing hour is venue-specific? i.e. under the *What* section
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[kylewm] also wondering if we can get rid of "
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[kylewm] All times are Pacific Time unless otherwise noted in venues."
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[kylewm] since I think P[SD]T is now the exception rather than the rule!
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Loqi [kylewm]: tantek left you a message 12 minutes ago: Since quiet writing hour has been growing at HWC SF, I've updated the HWC description put it on more equal footing, and emphasized the IndieWeb demos more (which have gotten good feedback) Thoughts? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#What http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-26/line/1464277725411
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@TechLifeWeb RT @synvila Are there any people from #indiewebcamp who does "microcasts" or similar audio posts? Looking for stuff to follow and be inspired by. (twitter.com/_/status/735866848575512576)
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tantek kylewm ok will try an iteration
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tantek LOL: https://adactio.com/journal/10708#comment33107 <-- that comment in particular, you have to click scroll to it unless Loqi has figured out how to get fragment ID referenced content
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Regressive Web Apps
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aaronpk is there a description of how to find the text of a comment from a fragment ID?
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aaronpk it looks like adactio has good markup and that one would be relatively easy. take the HTML tree starting at the fragment ID and parse that with the mf2 parser
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tantek the practice pre-dates IndieWebCamp so I'm not sure we've ever written it down there!
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tantek right, that, basically
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aaronpk but sometimes the fragment ID is just in a <a id="foo"></a> with the text outside of that
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tantek or after it
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sknebel take the h-item the fragment link is in?
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adactio But if an HTML element has both an h-entry class and an ID, wouldn't that be a good indicator to parse the fragment as a comment?
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aaronpk i'm wondering how much "magic" to build into a parser that handles this basically
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aaronpk like should it only handle the cases like adactio's where it's very well constructed HTML, or try to catch more of the edge cases too
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tantek only the cases where it's well constructed, then fallback to current behavior (page level)
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tantek so yeah, mf2 parse the DOM tree at that frag ID, use the first h-* object
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tantek if no items, then use the page as a whole
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tantek that's a good start :)
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tantek we can add more use-cases as needed
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/issues/15
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KevinMarks and don't worry about name id's
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 58 minutes ago: Since quiet writing hour has been growing at HWC SF, I've updated the HWC description put it on more equal footing, and emphasized the IndieWeb demos more (which have gotten good feedback) Thoughts? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#What http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-26/line/1464277725411
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tantek that too!
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aaronpk oh yeah good that makes it easier
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KevinMarks though I suppose you could apply the containing element thing that fragmention does
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aaronpk now that i think about it, i see the pattern of <a name="foo"></a> with content after that more often than with IDs
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KevinMarks that's oldschool markup. blogegr still preserves it I think
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tantek aaronpk, you meant antipattern
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aaronpk yes but antipatterns are a subset of patterns right? ;-)
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tantek I give you, from 13.5 years ago: http://tantek.com/log/2002/11.html#L20021128t1352
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aaronpk ha wow
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KevinMarks blogger does both: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-antifragility-of-web.html?showComment=1355242984591#c8602367063649488172
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KevinMarks <dt class="comment-author " id="c8602367063649488172"> <a name="c8602367063649488172"></a> <div class="avatar-image-container avatar-stock"><span dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/profile/11855510310992673801" rel="nofollow" onclick="" class="avatar-hovercard" id="av-0-11855510310992673801"><img src="//img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" width="16" height="16" alt="" title="Brien Malone"> </a></span></div> <a hr
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tantek interesting follow-up to adactio's post, in HN of all places: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11772514
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@Thuemer @iwontsignuphere @webrocker @justb3a@foobartel @fredericmarx @jkphl @t @aaronpk @adactio @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/735876701905915904)
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tantek is anyone backfeeding from HN?
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aaronpk that name sounds familiar
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[kylewm] aaronpk: https://plus.google.com/+PaulKinlan ?
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tantek very likely
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[kylewm] tantek: I do everything I can to avoid HN
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tantek lol
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tantek perhaps adactio can talk kinlan into posting comments on his own site instead of HN ;)
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tantek paul.kinlan.me
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KevinMarks Paul is the web intents chap
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KevinMarks @paul_kinlan on twitter
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tantek I think Nürnberg is now the most photogenic HWC. Goodness: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157666365389413/
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KevinMarks that looks like stock photos for "shiny web startup"
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (-162) "-PT by default, note quiet writing hour at some venues, simplify when to de-dup description" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm - take a look, took your suggestions, and tried to simplify even further: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#When
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tantek pro-tip: when you see a "</div>" in a wiki page (not just when editing), it likely means there's a missing </span> in the source (edit the page and find/fix it)
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tantek e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=events%2F2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club&action=historysubmit&diff=27960&oldid=27959
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KevinMarks it's a bit odd when you edit a partial page and there's a </div> in it
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KevinMarks threw me in the guest list yesterday
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aaronpk *sigh* mediawiki
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tantek http://sickonsunday.tumblr.com/post/144954064464/remember-those-days-when-we-didnt-have-fun-at
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gRegorLove Any messages, Loqi?
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aaronpk thinks he should increase the timeout on the slack gateway since more people are using it regularly now
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tantek heh
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tantek aaronpk: in looking at https://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Photos - have we reached out to folks that came last year for coming back to IWS?
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aaronpk i haven't
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[benatwork] Can I mention how much I love that “unnecessary weirdness” post? Kyle pointed me at it and I can’t stop thinking about it
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aaronpk except I have talked to yourmom.io
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aaronpk [benatwork]: me too!
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[benatwork] It’s very similar to the startup “iterate the one thing that makes you special, and do everything else in a standard way” to minimize the reasons why someone would reject you
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[benatwork] (advice I’m bad at following)
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tantek benatwork I disagree with the "one thing" framing the same reason I disagree with the "follow your passion" advice. It's too self-limiting, and fragile.
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tantek better: iterate the *things* that make you special, listen to market response to them, and focus next iteration on the subset of those things that the market responds more strongly to.
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tantek and then all the other "do everything else in a standard way”
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+222) "/* Current setup & practices */ FB profile & reply POSSE breakdown" (view diff)
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tantek sidenote, maybe this is why startups/projects need to "pivot" so often, they have mis-chosen the "one thing" (because of said bad advice), pushed it into the ground, and then they have to "pivot" to a new "one thing" and hope that their luck is better
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[benatwork] pivoting, if it’s done right, can be thought of as refining
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[benatwork] you start in a direction with a rough hypothesis and change what you’re doing based on feedback
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[benatwork] if a pivot is a complete change you probably started out with the wrong hypothesis
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[benatwork] “Things” is a fair change, but you can’t do too many things
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gRegorLove What's this "unnecessary weirdness" post?
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aaronpk https://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2016/05/21/0
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/22/7/weirdnesses
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Inessential Weirdnesses in Open Source Software
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aaronpk adds that to the reading list for the Leaders' Summit
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Leaders (+177) "/* Session Ideas */" (view diff)
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tantek benatwork, I think stretching pivoting to include just refining is an unuseful dilution of the term
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tantek common understanding of pivoting includes giving up on the previous thing
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tantek of course you can't do too many things, but that problem is self-solving, at all levels
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tantek the problem of artificially constrained focus, the "one thing" framing, however, is not solvable at all levels, because it is a negative force
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tantek and is exactly why people have to resort to calling things "side projects" or "skunkworks"
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KartikPrabhu what is service worker?
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Loqi service workers are scripts that run in the background, separate from tabs with the site open, and are commonly used for offline functionality and push notifications https://indiewebcamp.com/service_worker
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tantek why not admit that it is *right* to pursue multiple things you're good at, not knowing which is most important, and learn by iteration?
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kartikprabhu.com edited /service_worker (+45) "start indieweb examples section with a blank as prompt" (view diff)
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tantek the fetishization of side projects and skunkworks (plenty of posts about always have a side project etc.) would be unnecessary if we weren't oppressed by the dominant framing of "the one thing"
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KartikPrabhu anyone using service workers please add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/service_worker so we have examples for others!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: check recent Demos sessions from /2016/Dusseldorf and /2016/Nuremberg for demos of indieweb sites that added service worker
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[benatwork] side projects are usually because you’re working for someone else, and therefore don’t have autonomy to pursue your own goals. ideal to avoid but often not possible. skunkworks is similar, in larger companies with lots of layers of management.
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KartikPrabhu cool will so
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[benatwork] if you’re running side projects while also running your own company, you’re doing something wrong.
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KartikPrabhu hmmm that is a weirdly strong claim ^
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[benatwork] (or you have a cofounder who isn’t on board with your ideas.)
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aaronpk considers that comment
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tantek benatwork, completely agreed. in all cases you listed there is deception, what I'm saying is, avoid self-deception in that process.
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aaronpk definitely had side projects while also running a startup
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[benatwork] +1
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KartikPrabhu is a physicist with many side projects including indieweb so <shrug>
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KartikPrabhu unless the discussion is exclusively about companies
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tantek Kartikprabhhu, you are not job, nor are you your degree.
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[benatwork] right, I think it’s different if the side projects are irrelevant to what you’re doing as a business
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[benatwork] every side project I had ended up wrapped into Known in some way (the bot, etc)
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KevinMarks microformats were a side project at a startup tantek and I worked at
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tantek no microformats started as a talk when I worked at Microsoft
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tantek and yes that was very definitely a side-project, that I realized was more "one of the things I was good at", and that self-realization contributed to quitting
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tantek at Technorati we were allowed to make working on microformats part of our day job
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tantek it was not a side project
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KevinMarks I meant that in a good way - a side project that outlasted the host organism. Like Slack and Glitch
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tantek KevinMarks: this is my point about "the fetishization of side projects and skunkworks (plenty of posts about always have a side project etc.) would be unnecessary"
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tantek btw that weirdnesses article does not go far enough
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tantek I'm going go out on a limb here and say that if your community is unable to attract people that are "different" in ways inessential to the community (e.g. your gender / race etc. should not matter in anything open source), then you have a problem
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tantek or you don't have a community, you have a club of close friends
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tantek but as soon as you make that "community" claim, if all you've got are white men, then you've got a problem
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KartikPrabhu iirc that has be levied against this "community" too sometimes
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tantek KartikPrabhu: has *been*
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KartikPrabhu yeah sorry being keyboard dumb at the moment
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tantek However I will point out that *every* IndieWebCamp has had at least some women and usually non-white participants too
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tantek and we should continue to work hard to improve that
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KartikPrabhu yup ^
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tantek and age range too btw
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tantek e.g. this was pretty good last year: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF#Photos but we can do better
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tantek e.g. in comparison to the previous year: https://indiewebcamp.com/File:indie-web-camp2014-sf.jpg
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tantek (it makes sense to compare year-over-year for same cities / regions)
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tantek original post is great BTW https://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2016/05/21/0
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@jgmac1106 @kevinmarks I had no idea I could make svgs in Google Drawing. I thought it was all kinds of complicated. changes things. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/735904549383311360)
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KevinMarks I agree, that post is very well written and evokes empathy well
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tantek This in particular is something I think we're pretty good (not always) at avoiding: http://blog.aurynn.com/86/contempt-culture <-- still worth reading
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tantek really appreciate that there's a name for that
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tantek.com edited /2016/Düsseldorf (+263) "/* Photos */ more twitch gifs" (view diff)
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miklb Can brid.gy webmention endpoints be used as syndicate-to links?
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aaronpk yeah! that's how I use bridgy publish
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miklb cool. I've reached out to Aaron Gustafason on his Jekyll webmention plugin about being able to send webmentions from beyond what is in the text of the markdown file. He seems to think Front Matter wouldn't be that difficult. Which would be the missing piece of my Jekyll/Micropub/Notes/POSSE holy grail :-)
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aaronpk awesome
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miklb It's still a fairly limited use for general Jekyll users, but one more step closer until a way to send via feed surfaces.
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GWG Howdy
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aaronpk silopub++
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Loqi silopub has 1 karma
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aaronpk just used it to posse to github
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snarfed oh man github posse, so good
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snarfed makes me want backfeed
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snarfed ...wait, i'd need to build that. crap. :P
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GWG snarfed, you can do it.
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GWG I have faith in you
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snarfed lol yes, just wish i had the time
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aaronpk lol!
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snarfed silopub++ regardless
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi silopub has 2 karma
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Loqi kylewm has 331 karma
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miklb oh, wait, I can use silo.pub with my own micropub endpoint?
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snarfed that's...confusing
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snarfed what would that do?
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aaronpk miklb: my "syndicate to" options are all either webmentuon endpoints like bridgy publish and indienews or micropub endpoints like silo.pub
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aaronpk it's actualy pretty slick to configure a new one too
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miklb ah. I saw the `post to hosted blogs on Wordpress.com, Tumblr, or Blogger.` and didn't really look closer
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GWG aaronpk, does Indienews have a logo?
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aaronpk hm it does not
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-26-13-14-18.png
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GWG aaronpk, could it?
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aaronpk sure
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GWG I would try, but I have no logo talents.
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GWG I am working on updating Syndication Links to SVG.
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GWG As well as the Indieweb plugin. So I figured I'd ask.
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GWG I am worried about breaking snarfed's site
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snarfed is embarrasingly still on the synd links plugin 1.x
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snarfed sigh leading space
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snarfed GWG: don't worry though, people can always downgrade if a new version breaks them
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GWG snarfed, if I switch to SVG over icon fonts, people will notice.
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snarfed of course! it's your prerogative as the maintainer though
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GWG I think it is better going forward, especially since Genericons is deprecating social icons.
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[kevinmarks] Interesting https://dev.twitter.com/web/embedded-timelines/oembed
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KartikPrabhu why does an API have "max-height" in it!?
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aaronpk that's from oembed
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aaronpk it's to tell the server the dimensions of where the thing will be embedded so the server can decide to return something different depending on the size
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KartikPrabhu <yucl>
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KartikPrabhu yuck*
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gregorlove.com edited /service_worker (+84) "/* Indieweb Examples */ +adactio" (view diff)
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[emmak] one frustration i've had with oembed is the fixed dimensions don't work well with responsive layouts
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aaronpk I'm not surprised. oembed was created before responsive layouts were a thing :-)
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snarfed fwiw i've been happy with http://embed.ly/ for embedding arbitrary web pages
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snarfed similar to oembed but more modern. (and proprietary, granted.)
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Jeena Can someone who understands the twitter API explain to me how i am counting the length of my string wrong? https://gist.github.com/jeena/8a154b7f8f31fc832f9a701a2a7ea651
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Loqi I couldn't find a Twitter account for https://gist.github.com/jeena/8a154b7f8f31fc832f9a701a2a7ea651
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Jeena I didn't ask you to do it Loqi ;)
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techlifeweb I failed at captcha. I may be a robot.
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prtksxna heh
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KevinMarks I don't think they t.co localhost, so that will not be a short url
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KevinMarks yes, http://localhost:3000/notes/595 doesn't turn blue on twitter
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snarfed KevinMarks: maybe they require at least one dot in the domain
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snarfed Jeena: i assume you've read https://dev.twitter.com/overview/api/counting-characters ?
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Jeena ah hm didn't think about checking on their website, I read some parts of it
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snarfed Jeena: oh you'll also want https://dev.twitter.com/overview/t.co
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Jeena nice It seems to work with a real url https://twitter.com/jeena/status/735954260857376768
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@jeena 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678... http://blog.rust-lang.org/2016/05/26/Rust-1.9.html more at https://jeena.net/notes/694 (twitter.com/_/status/735954260857376768)
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Jeena https://github.com/twitter/twitter-text/issues/43
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KevinMarks you probbaly don't want t.co storing localhost urls
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aaronpk this is important https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/735940720931012608
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@FiloSottile BlueCoat now has a CA signed by Symantec https://crt.sh/?id=19538258 Here's how to untrust it https://blog.filippo.io/untrusting-an-intermediate-ca-on-os-x/ [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/735940720931012608)
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gRegorLove I need to find out how to do that on Windows ^
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techlifeweb gRegorLove: this may help though I haven't tried it yet http://netsekure.org/2010/04/how-to-disable-trusted-root-certificates/
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Loqi [Nasko] How to disable trusted root certificates
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snarfed1 hmm, not sure it's quite that big a deal
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snarfed sounds like symantec did intentionally issue the intermediate cert, ie it wasn't compromised, and bluecoat is a legit org (though maybe minorly controversial)
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colintedford Lately I seem to encounter more and more sites with menus that require js >:(
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snarfed the post reads more like "i don't personally trust bluecoat, and i wanted to figure out how to do this anyway, so i did, and here's how you can too"
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk i also personally don't trust bluecoat, having had direct experience with them at my last job
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: that is unfortunate
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snarfed got it
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: Yes, and annoying.
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aaronpk they sell a product that companies use to be able to MITM the web traffic on your machine. right now, in order to do that without you seeing browser warnings, the IT department installs the bluecoat intermediate cert on your computer.
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aaronpk with this change, they'll be able to MITM the traffic without requiring that extra step
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colintedford Even benwerd's site! (though that's not new)
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[benatwork] huh?
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aaronpk i guess i should write a post about this
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snarfed aaronpk: oh definitely agreed, intermediate CA certs like this are scary. i just expect there are many iffy orgs with them, and have been for a while
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snarfed this one may not be special
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colintedford [benatwork]; just grousing about js-only site menus
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aaronpk that would be unfortunate. there's also unfortunately not a good way to know.
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snarfed aaronpk: OP would probably claim https://crt.sh/ is how to know...but you'd have to bring your own judgment of which orgs are shady :P
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[scottgruber] If I sent up web mentions correctly when I send a mention to rsvp for the upcoming PDX should my avatar and link show up immediately?
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aaronpk this is making a strong case for p2p networks of sharing trusted root authorities
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aaronpk [scottgruber]: yeah pretty much immediately. if you want to debug, you can look at the response you get to the webmention
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aaronpk just realized he should have included a webmention form on that page to make that easier
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aaronpk [scottgruber]: it's super ugly, but plug in your RSVP URL here and then you'll be able to see the webmention response which should include some helpful error message http://2016.indieweb.org/webmention.php
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[scottgruber] Thx. aaronpk giving it a try now.
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[emmak] own your CA
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aaronpk just throwing this out there ;-) https://ssl.indieweb.org/
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[emmak] whoa
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[emmak] this reminds me of something kyle drake gave a talk on
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[emmak] hosting websites on an encrypted p2p network
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[emmak] https://blog.newrelic.com/2016/04/05/futuretalk-distributed-web-kyle-drake/
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[scottgruber] “My RSVP is listed on the event page now!” Cool. My name and picture didn’t make it, but my site's url did. If I hack at it a bit can I resubmit at the same url to overwrite when I update the source url?
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snarfed [scottgruber]: probably yes. webmention targets usually support that.
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[scottgruber] Coolio. Thanks. I'll keep it testing it and write up notes to post my how to.
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[kevinmarks] I wonder if webmention.rocks could add RSVP testing (it's a little orthogonal, but it is implicitly testing reply markup now)
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willnorris [scottgruber]: definitely yes. I had some issues with my h-card originally. After fixing and resending the webmention, the event page updated with the new data
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gRegorLove willnorris: Are you using https://github.com/microformats/tests in the go mf2 library?
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willnorris yes
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willnorris not all of them pass yet though: https://github.com/willnorris/microformats/blob/master/testsuite_test.go#L40
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gRegorLove Cool. A pending PR for php-mf2 adds it, so once that's in it will help identify the discrepancies you mentioned in your RSVP
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willnorris well part of the problem with microformats/tests is that it's written primarily against the nodejs (or is it the micformats-shiv?) library. In working on the go implementation, I found several cases where I thought the tests were wrong, and was checking some of the other libs to confirm my suspicion
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willnorris for example: https://github.com/microformats/tests/pull/48
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willnorris so yeah, microformats/tests was definitely the thing that motivated this little project I wanna build
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gRegorLove Yeah, I do think there's some wrong stuff in the tests, but the impression I got from tantek is that the nodejs parser does the "best job" of the parsers so far.
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gRegorLove Or maybe it is microformats-shiv. I don't know.
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gRegorLove But at least using the same test suite we can coordinate better
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willnorris If these are intended to be a shared test suite that all libraries write against, then the tests should not be written against any one library. Unless we're actually saying that that is the reference implementation