#indiewebcamp 2016-06-26

2016-06-26 UTC
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tantek wait, this is @dret saying he hopes /PuSH will *NOT* be forced to be RDF by W3C? Yes I hope not. https://twitter.com/dret/status/746719491393003520
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@dret @sandhawke cautiosly optimistic and hoping @julien51 won't be pressured to follow #AS2's path of "if it's @w3c it has to be #RDF". #KISS (twitter.com/_/status/746719491393003520)
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek I'm going to say something
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aaronpk there's definitely going to be pressure to do the as2 thing of sort of silently including @context to turn it into JSON-LD but I want to push back against even that
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tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+30) "/* Tantek */ note explicitly PuSH used with HTML h-feed h-entry" (view diff)
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tantek said something: https://twitter.com/t/status/746870820979376128
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@t @dret to be fair, #AS2 added JSONLD *before* drafts @W3C @SocialWebWG. WG made JSONLD optional. cc @sandro. PuSH ... http://tantek.com/2016/177/t9 (twitter.com/_/status/746870820979376128)
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aaronpk http://tantek.com/2016/177/t9
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] @dret to be fair, #AS2 added JSONLD *before* drafts @W3C @SocialWebWG. WG made JSONLD optional. cc @sandro.
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aaronpk Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 402 karma
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tantek nice
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tantek now we just need Loqi to do that automatically via original post discovery ;)
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@Codango 윤석찬- 인디웹(IndieWeb)과 워드프레스(Wordpress) - http://codango.com/%ec%9c%a4%ec%84%9d%ec%b0%ac-%ec%9d%b8%eb%94%94%ec%9b%b9indieweb%ea%b3%bc-%ec%9b%8c%eb%93%9c%ed%94%84%eb%a0%88%ec%8a%a4wordpress/ (twitter.com/_/status/746895041214484480)
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gRegorLove Hey, did we know about that video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIFuxMl-vs
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aaronpk nice! add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb?
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tantek Wow that's amazing!
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gRegorLove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channy_Yun
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tantek should we add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko also?
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk we don't have a featured video on the english home page. should we?
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aaronpk that seems like a small step we can do to make the home page friendlier
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gregorlove.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+129) "/* 2015 */ Added Korean Indieweb and WordPress video" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Skipping around this video, slides look inspired by others used in indieweb presentations. independents day info, aol homesite disappearance, etc.
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gregorlove.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+75) "/* 2015 */ link to Channy Yun's slides" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Yeah, it's a translation of "Why we need the indieweb"
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aaronpk bear: some initial API docs and code for my new bot framework is here https://github.com/aaronpk/TikTokBot
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jkphl.is created /events/2016-07-06-homebrew-website-club (+2635) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> <img style="width:100%;height:18em;object-fit:cover;object-position:50% 50%" class="u-featured" src="http://assets.veganstraightedge.com/articles/201..."" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /Events (+627) "/* July */" (view diff)
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jkphl good morning #indiewebcamp
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jkphl.is edited /events/2016-07-06-homebrew-website-club (+22) "/* Nürnberg */" (view diff)
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@jkphl Happy to announce our next Homebrew Website Club on July 6th, possibly the last one before a summer break http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-07-06-homebrew-website-club #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/746993174808244224)
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jkphl.is edited /events/2016-07-06-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* Nürnberg */" (view diff)
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GWG Morning
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aaronpk good morning!
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GWG Good morning, aaronpk
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aaronpk with any luck i'm going to launch newloqi today, at least on my private IRC server!
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GWG What is newloqi?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "newloqi" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ng
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aaronpk (not intended to be a permanent name)
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GWG Question stands
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aaronpk I'm rebuilding Loqi's core IRC process so that it's easier to manage
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GWG Good luck
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GWG When does Loqj get a website?
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aaronpk http://loqi.me
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Loqi Loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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GWG I meant more of a personality
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aaronpk another chat log question... should I move the logs from #indiewebcamp to #indieweb or should #indieweb start as essentially a new channel?
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GWG If we are moving the chat, don't the logs go with it?
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aaronpk i think that's the intent, although with IRC there is technically no "moving" channels
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sknebel then we would have to search 2 sets of logs for a while, I think merging them would be better
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aaronpk yeah i think the intent was to move channels, so moving the logs makes sense
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[kevinmarks] A further thought on /chat
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[kevinmarks] What if the webmention was for join/leave and that triggered the pubsubhubbub following?
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[kevinmarks] Kind of how #indieweb works on twitter now
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[kevinmarks] So any post with #indieweb goes to the channel
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Zegnat Good thing you mention this now that I actually have a chance to look, I would have definitely missed the move
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aaronpk it'll be obvious when it happens
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aaronpk i'll leave a note in the channel topic
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aaronpk and probably make Loqi say something here occasionally
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Loqi grins profusely
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Zegnat Could you have Loqi reacting to people speaking, and telling them to move to the new channel?
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Loqi :)
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aaronpk something like that
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ePirat moving channel=
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ePirat *?
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aaronpk what is rename to indieweb?
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Loqi Rename to IndieWeb is a proposal from the 2016 Leaders Summit, to change our primary identity from "IndieWebCamp" to "IndieWeb" https://indiewebcamp.com/Rename_to_IndieWeb
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ePirat so channel will move to #indieweb?
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aaronpk yeah
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ePirat you can just redirect the channel
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aaronpk is that a freenode thing?
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aaronpk all i can find is http://www.geekshed.net/2010/05/redirecting-one-channel-to-another/ but it's not clear whether that applies to Freenode or not
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Loqi Redirecting one channel to another
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Zegnat ChanServ on Freenode does not seem to have migrate or redirect commands like those mentioned at that link. So that probably does not apply.
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ePirat it does work at freenode
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aaronpk any docs you can point me to?
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ePirat I will have a look if I can find any
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aaronpk i'm not sure if a technical solution like that is necessary. i previously was part of a completely manual channel redirect several years ago on a channel of similar size, and it worked fine
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ePirat aaronpk can you try joining #ePirat please? (want to check if redirect works)
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aaronpk i ended up in ##ePirat
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ePirat so I asked in freenode support channel:<+thumbs> ePirat: /mode ##source +if ##destination
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ePirat you need to be op in both channels
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ePirat <+thumbs> ePirat: don't forget to set /msg ChanServ help set guard in both.
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aaronpk think you could write that up in a little blog post? looks like it wouldn't be too hard to be the first result for a search on redirecting freenode IRC channels.
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aaronpk or at least leave some notes on the https://indiewebcamp.com/Rename_to_IndieWeb page
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ePirat I will make a short blogpost
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aaronpk great
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ePirat aaronpk http://epir.at/2016/06/26/redirecting-freenode-channels/
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aaronpk ePirat++ thanks!
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Loqi ePirat has 1 karma
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ePirat unfortunately my blog can't do any fancy indieweb stuff :P
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Zegnat ePirat: you could add some h-entry microformat classes to the theme and the posts would instantly be parsable by indieweb sites, something to consider
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ePirat Zegnat thanks, I will, that blog will soon be migrated to a new one anyway. I just never have time to actually do it, so far…
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Zegnat I know the feeling, mine isn’t even online at the moment
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ePirat and then there is http://blog.epir.at which is not confusing at all :p
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ePirat wasn't able to find a satisfying blog engine yet…
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Zegnat Same, so I started writing my own
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ePirat I might just use Ghost though…
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Loqi [indieweb] "Meu blog não é mais aqui" by Ivan Jerônimo https://ivanjeronimo.withknown.com/2016/meu-blog-n%C3%A3o-%C3%A9-mais-aqui
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[kevinmarks] Adding the microformats 2 classes can help with migration
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[kevinmarks] Cos then you can parse the old ones and post them with micropub to the new one
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bear.im edited /chat (+206) "add suggestion by kevin" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk re: moving chat logs, I tend to be against altering history like that. Despite the search inconvenience I think it may be better to just keep the #indiewebcamp / #indieweb logs separate. Heck maybe we'll even have a separate indieweb-camp in the future for more "live" use during camps.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell aaronpk another difference is that #indiewebcamp is/was a bigger set of topics, intro, dev, etc., while #indieweb is going to be focused more on the human / intro / design side, with the all the dev/plumbing stuff being shunted to #indieweb-dev
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm Tantek, Are you saying historic logs shouldn't be at IndieWeb.org/chat/2000-01-01?
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tantek kylewm: whatever the domain/path design, I'm saying it may be useful to consider keeping #indiewebcamp and #indieweb logs at different paths
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tantek s/the domain/the overall domain
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Loqi tantek meant to say: kylewm: whatever the overall domain/path design, I'm saying it may be useful to consider keeping #indiewebcamp and #indieweb logs at different paths
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kylewm Guess I don't understand the original question well enough to have an opinion
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tantek mostly it's about preserving historical context
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tantek from an archival perspective, to know that stuff in a place in the logs was said in a channel called "indiewebcamp" vs. in a channel called "indieweb"
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tantek for example, everyone who has clients that keep logs are keeping them different per channel
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tantek so being able to look stuff up either way is easier if we keep them separately online as well
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tantek currently this is easy because indiewebcamp.com/irc clearly relates to IRC channel #indiewebcamp - very 1:1
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tantek but with the indiewebcamp->indieweb domain change, all of a sudden we lose some of that.
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aaronpk interesting
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tantek I'm not sure what's a good / best answer to this, but more raising it as an issue
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 12 minutes ago: re: moving chat logs, I tend to be against altering history like that. Despite the search inconvenience I think it may be better to just keep the #indiewebcamp / #indieweb logs separate. Heck maybe we'll even have a separate indieweb-camp in the future for more "live" use during camps. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-26/line/1466978799210
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 6 minutes ago: another difference is that #indiewebcamp is/was a bigger set of topics, intro, dev, etc., while #indieweb is going to be focused more on the human / intro / design side, with the all the dev/plumbing stuff being shunted to #indieweb-dev http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-26/line/1466979170249
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kylewm Another option would be keep the h1 header #indiewebcamp, but make irc -> chat a simple redirect
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tantek yes that could work
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tantek for past logs
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kylewm I agree with the intent to keep context
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aaronpk so like show "#indiewebcamp" header for all logs before July 4, but "#indieweb" after?
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aaronpk but in the same URL space?
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tantek interesting, that may be another solution
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kylewm Yeah, just an option, I don't know if that's good
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tantek s/solution/option
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Loqi tantek meant to say: interesting, that may be another option
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bear wouldn't we need an #indiewebcamp for discussions during events
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tantek bear - see above about my musings about an indieweb-camp for such
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bear since #indieweb is new and more specific
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bear just suggesting to lose the "-" because legacy
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aaronpk if we do the actual freenode channel redirect then #indiewebcamp will not be usable
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tantek that's either less damaging, or more confusing. because local clients will *still* keep separate logs for indiewebcamp vs indieweb-camp
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tantek ^^ in response to bear
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tantek aaronpk, right, I'm not suggesting keeping indiewebcamp as separate
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tantek but rather a new channel indieweb-camp following the naming convention
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bear ah, so we are going for a more firm "line in the sand"
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aaronpk yeah i think that would make sense
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tantek that is purely focused on discussions during events
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tantek I'm ok postponing that new channel also
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bear k, consider me on the same page
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tantek until it seems like we need it, or we have the next IWC
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aaronpk could be used for transcribing HWCs too
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tantek but putting the idea out there for digestion / consideration
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tantek aaronpk: right
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tantek or we pick something completely different like indieweb-live
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bear yes, that was my hope for having an event specific channel
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tantek for any all indieweb related events live discussions
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tantek whether IWC, HWC, or even aaronpk's talk at OSBridge
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bear s/event specific channel/channel for events/
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Loqi bear meant to say: yes, that was my hope for having an channel for events
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tantek would also be useful for shunting KevinMarks live tweets for IWC related events
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bear :)
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tantek which often prevent actual discussions from happening
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tantek on the channel
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aaronpk well the first HWC after July 4 is the 13th so we have some time
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tantek (again, just more thoughts)
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tantek (none of this is critical for July 4 AFAIK, except perhaps the choice of old archives vs. new archives path(s))
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aaronpk the nice thing is once i do the initial work on Loqi and logs then all these things are much easier
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Loqi :)
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aaronpk we do need to decide on treating #indiewebcamp and #indieweb as the same for the logs quickly
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tantek would it make sense to send all the tweets / [indieweb] Superfeedr mentions to such an event / live channel ? indieweb-live ?
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aaronpk because that affects how I import and migrate log files
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tantek right
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aaronpk during the summit we talked briefly about moving tweets to some other channel but didn't decide on anything specific
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tantek does my historical/context preservation concern/desire appeal to anyone else?
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tantek or am I the only one thinking about that?
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aaronpk i get it, but i think naming the page appropriately is a fine solution
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tantek aaronpk, right, I'm proposing considering (later) that such an indieweb-live channel could be the place where tweets/superfeedrs could go
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aaronpk if we use the same URL space for #indiewebcamp and #indieweb, then it's still true that in both cases that is the "primary" channel for indieweb
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tantek aaronpk: "naming the page" ? kylewm's h1 solution?
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek perhaps also in the page <title> ?
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aaronpk yep and all the mf2 as well
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tantek so that google searches for say indiewebcamp 2016-06-26 find this log?
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tantek that could work
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tantek that's good that the online logs will preserve that information in their content
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aaronpk i think it makes the most sense if we do the full freenode redirect, since #indiewebcamp won't be usable anymore
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tantek that actually allows us to make path changes based on channel name in the future (if we have to for any reason)
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bear we just need to make sure old log references have a redirect so they still work
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tantek aaronpk: pretty sure that at the summit we agreed to do the full freenode redirect
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aaronpk that never came up IIRC, I didn't even know that was an option
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tantek hmm - maybe ben_thatmustbeme just mentioned it in IRC beforehand?
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aaronpk the last time I redirected an IRC channel it was a very organic process and yet still took only about a day
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tantek I definitely remember a distinct discussion about channel redirection either at the summit or right before
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tantek and there was general agreement on it
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: do you remember this?
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aaronpk my understanding was that we were talking about a functional redirect
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aaronpk as in, just say "everybody go here now"
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tantek not sure what that means
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aaronpk nothing technical
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tantek no I distinctly remember ben_thatmustbeme saying it could be done automatically
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tantek no need to actually *tell* people
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ben_thatmustbeme pops his head in
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ben_thatmustbeme what?
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aaronpk well i completely missed that
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tantek like in the /topic or message or whatever
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tantek sounds like we are coming to the same conclusion again anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme trys to read back
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aaronpk no mention of it in the logs anyway
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aaronpk but yeah automatic has a bunch of benefits
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ben_thatmustbeme no, i didn't say that, as far as i knew thats not possible, i thought aaronpk was saying that was possible, i think we both misunderstood that
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aaronpk hahaha
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aaronpk well it turns out it is possible
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ben_thatmustbeme how does one do that?
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aaronpk ePirat wrote it up this morning! http://epir.at/2016/06/26/redirecting-freenode-channels/
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ben_thatmustbeme waoh, I need to look over that list of mode options again
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tantek aaronpk: while figuring out the logs h1 etc. should we also capture that these were from/on the freenode network?
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aaronpk i don't think so, since some of the messages originated on slack or from the web interface
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aaronpk freenode is really just the transport
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tantek but they got mirrored onto freenode right?
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aaronpk s/the/a/
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: freenode is really just a transport
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aaronpk yes as well as mirrored to slack
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tantek point being, freenode has the canonical set of messages right?
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aaronpk no, IRC servers have no history
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@John316Network https://booklaunch.io/llwroberts/thedoor - The Door is free. #IARTG #John316author #indieauth https://twitter.com/LorilynRoberts/status/739783198624751616/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/747198128726507520)
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tantek aaronpk: but the channel names we are talking about are names within the freenode context (gasp namespace ;) )
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tantek we are archiving #indiewebcamp, not "the indieweb slack team"
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tantek or in URL form irc://irc.freenode.net/indiewebcamp
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tantek similarly we have the social archive from irc.w3.org
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tantek (and socialig too I think IIRC)
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aaronpk that actually begs the question of whether i should move those too
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tantek I think I asked that question earlier (past few days?) ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, looks like that forward flag in irc was originally for spammers, you can forward users by their gecos
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ben_thatmustbeme i can't find that exact flag documented ANYWHERE
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