#indieweb 2016-07-18

2016-07-18 UTC
Moneristo, M-nd, mlncn, nitot, davidmead, wolftune, awolf, KevinMarks, emmak_, miklb_, miklb, rrix, M-rongladney and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Got those working then, but now drowning in tags
kegan[m], M-RyanRix, awolf, M-hotzeplotz, KevinMarks_, CherryPuffs and tantek joined the channel
#
@RichardCarls h-feed and pagination; distinction between full and partial feed? u-* properties for previous, next, first, last? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/754871422867079168)
nitot, awolf, wolftune, catsup, Lancey, tantek, KevinMarks, jihaisse, cweiske and goodoo joined the channel
#
@callovarne Micropub step one: link to a thing. #indieweb #webdev https://twitter.com/callovarne/status/754926508511113216/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/754926508511113216)
KevinMarks_, tantek, Pierre-O, lukasros and nitot joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on The IndieWeb-ified Library by Lynne Doran" by Lynne Doran http://boffosocko.com/2016/07/16/the-indieweb-ified-library/#comment-31370
adactio and nitot_ joined the channel
#
petermolnar I guess it's time for everyone to backup their assets from Yahoo; the announcement of the buyers is near
loicm_, nitot, cmal, goodoo and cyberjar09 joined the channel
#
@jkphl Yes! Very much looking forward to another @indiewebcamp later this year. Again, Brighton it is! :) https://indieweb.org/2016/Brighton (twitter.com/_/status/755007022290972672)
loicm_, Lancey, loicm__, nitot and tvn joined the channel
#
jonnybarnes hello
#
petermolnar hi jonnybarnes
#
cweiske you two have the same nick length!
#
petermolnar many math. much legth. wow!
[ben_thatmustbem joined the channel
#
[ben_thatmustbem GWG, sorry, been unable to get to my server of late, but ben.thatmustbe.me/mobilepub is my hosted copy of mobilepub
tantek, shiflett, wolftune, CherryPuffs and nitot joined the channel
#
aaronpk petermolnar: oh dear. and I just spent saturday getting my flickr archiving working again
#
petermolnar I'm slowly accepting the fact that I need to give up flickr (as well): with my only slightly paranoid ublock settings, I can't browse it any more
#
petermolnar and lately I get more webmentions on a photo than reactions on flickr
#
aaronpk it's getting really bad. so much JS loading everything and it breaks so often
#
petermolnar so apart from supporting the global map of images I see very little use of it these days
#
aaronpk I do like their new automatic tagging
#
aaronpk but I found an API I can use to do that
#
aaronpk my plan to move off flickr is:
#
aaronpk what is shoebox?
#
Loqi Shoebox is the name of an in-progress p3k application that manages files and acts as a micropub media endpoint https://indieweb.org/Shoebox
#
petermolnar I never used the "too littl, too late" phrase, but I think it stands for the flick autotagging
#
tonious (Shoebox looks like a cool idea. I've been thinking about building something like that)
#
petermolnar aaronpk do you store full sized images when you upload them?
#
petermolnar as in photo
#
petermolnar s
#
aaronpk not on my website
#
petermolnar I'm getting to feel it's a bit of an overkill
#
petermolnar though I need to regenerate resized cache images from time to time, storing 10-16Mpixel images might be too much
#
aaronpk oh great now i'm getting intermittent connection errors uploading to Flickr
cmal joined the channel
#
tantek yikes
#
Loqi tantek: petermolnar left you a message 1 day, 3 hours ago: http://mrcoles.com/demo/markdown-css/ - while brilliant, it also summarizes overengineering by it's mere existence
#
aaronpk yeah flickr is really struggling this morning
#
petermolnar maybe everyone is saving their assets :)
nitot joined the channel
#
aaronpk heh
#
tantek checks logs re: Flickr
#
tantek just rumors of buyers? meh
#
tantek wow - amazing: http://2003.aaronparecki.com/
#
tantek finds an mp3
#
tantek image map! http://2003.aaronparecki.com/germany/schule-index.htm
cweiske joined the channel
#
tantek hmm - this article blames "social media" but I wonder if we can do better with indieweb solutions and approaches: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/12/how-technology-disrupted-the-truth
#
tantek it does seem like the natural outcome of ad-view driven websites (click bait etc.)
#
tantek yeah: "But the trouble is that the business model of most digital news organisations is based around clicks. News media around the world has reached a fever-pitch of frenzied binge-publishing, in order to scrape up digital advertising’s pennies and cents."
#
tantek "in the first quarter of 2016, 85 cents of every new dollar spent in the US on online advertising went to Google and Facebook"
#
jonnybarnes this looks bad: https://httpoxy.org
#
tantek that looks like a suspicious typo domain
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] There is a an open web shout out in the article
#
petermolnar jonnybarnes someone should show how this could actually be used as a vulnerability
#
aaronpk they avoid that for really bad issues
#
aaronpk which this is
#
aaronpk otherwise you get people copy pasting the attack code and running it on things
#
petermolnar unless someone calls external binaries via some kind of exec/sytem which relies on env vars, there is no attack vector here as far as I can tell
#
aaronpk they list known vulnerable software, including Guzzle in PHP
#
petermolnar yes, I get that
#
petermolnar but I'm saying this is not really a vulnerability
#
jonnybarnes yeah, just updated my site to use the latest Guzzle which fixes this
#
[kevinmarks] Now, we are caught in a series of confusing battles between opposing forces: between truth and falsehood, fact and rumour, kindness and cruelty; between the few and the many, the connected and the alienated; between the open platform of the web as its architects envisioned it and the gated enclosures of Facebook and other social networks; between an informed public and a misguided mob.
#
aaronpk it looks like if you set the Proxy header in your HTTP request, make a request to something that makes an external request, the code will use whatever you specify in the header to route the traffic through
#
aaronpk i'm doing the `fastcgi_param HTTP_PROXY "";` fix at the nginx level now
#
[kevinmarks] This freakonomics episode with @zeynep was good too https://huffduffer.com/kevinmarks/344794
#
Loqi [kevinmarks] Is the Internet Being Ruined? - Freakonomics Radio - WNYC
#
jonnybarnes aaronpk: same, I’ve added that line to my fastcgi_params file
Jammy_Stuff joined the channel
#
tantek huh, a whole series on online *comments* https://www.theguardian.com/technology/series/the-web-we-want
#
aaronpk easy fix
#
petermolnar "History of httpoxy" March 2001 The issue is discovered in libwww-perl and fixed. Reported by Randal L. Schwartz.
#
petermolnar conclusions: use Perl.
nitot joined the channel
#
tantek I want to believe that indieweb comments will be a lot better since people are using an identity they have consciously built up (their own website) rather than some throwaway login on a random news site.
#
aaronpk I also want to believe that, and I am optimistic
#
cweiske when openid started, someone made a throwaway openid provider
#
tantek I think for the scale of journalism sites, they may have to resort to requiring Vouches
#
aaronpk however, even after youtube comments switched to G+ it didn't help the state of youtube comments much
#
tantek aaronpk: I wonder if that would have been different had people's G+ profiles had a "most recent comments" box that showed their most recent comments made with that G+ profile anywhere (including YouTube)
#
aaronpk true!
#
tantek my guess is that people's YT comments still feel sufficiently disconnected / undiscoverable from their "profile" that they don't feel sufficiently "self-conscious" about what they are saying
#
tantek goes back to working on problem he is more immediately capable of solving
#
tantek s/problem/problems
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: goes back to working on problems he is more immediately capable of solving
#
cweiske nothing would prevent people from not showing their latest comments on their own domain
#
aaronpk i actually inadvertently made my list of replies almost un-findable on my website
#
tantek cweiske, and there's plenty of people with their own domain that write mean things right their on the homepage as well. The point is not about any absolute prevention, but rather, overall discouragement and net effects.
#
tantek s/right their on the/right there on their
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: cweiske, and there's plenty of people with their own domain that write mean things right there on their homepage as well. The point is not about any absolute prevention, but rather, overall discouragement and net effects.
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on The IndieWeb-ified Library by Jessamyn Prince" by Jessamyn Prince http://boffosocko.com/2016/07/16/the-indieweb-ified-library/#comment-31373
nitot, KevinMarks and tvn joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Yt comments did show up on g+ profile by default, but g+ profile was not necessarily prominent enough
#
[kevinmarks] Previously http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/twitters-tragedy-of-the-comments
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] Twitter's Tragedy of the Comments
#
[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.com/2009/09/tummling-sidewiki-twitter-and-tragedy.html
#
tantek KevinMarks: sounds like another post you should add to https://indieweb.org/publics#Articles
#
[kevinmarks] https://web.archive.org/web/20060316180236/http://many.corante.com/archives/2004/11/06/the_tragedy_of_the_comments.php
#
[kevinmarks] The comments on that last one are quite good, ironically enough.
#
[kevinmarks] Though Ben gets it wrong
#
tantek The tragedy of the corante permalinks?
#
tantek I wonder if that's a good example of the sustainability/reliability problem of "group" blogs (as opposed to personal / independent blogs)
#
KevinMarks Munging Christopher Allen's blog has been interesting for that.
#
KevinMarks The change in comments culture over time
#
petermolnar I think one of the issues is option to comment right there, right below the topic; many commenting systems, that are away from the source material seem to behave better; though this might be an illusion
#
KevinMarks Also munging his blog means I find interesting old posts like https://lifewithalacrity.github.io/2008/09/group-threshold.html
mlncn_ joined the channel
#
tantek REMINDER, XOXOFest is registration "survey" is open only two more hours!
#
tantek http://blog.xoxofest.com/post/147058770695/2016-registration
#
tantek tl;dr: XOXOFest is an awesome celebration of indie creativity (including lots of indepenendent websites) and is very on topic for this community
#
tantek Highly recommend everyone here "apply" (it's a very short form - just three fields) https://attend.xoxofest.com/
[benatwork] joined the channel
#
[benatwork] NB: the $200 ticket is probably also worth it. The talks are fine but the real magic is in the community.
Pierre-O1 and R2ZER0_ joined the channel
#
tantek also note they have scholarship tickets which are now free
#
tantek benatwork, while you're here, it looks like I will be away for both HWC SFs in August (10th and 24th)
#
tantek any progress on being able to host?
#
tantek cc: KevinMarks
#
[benatwork] tantek I’ll double down and commit to getting a firm answer early this week. May also be away for at least one of those.
Jammy_Stuff, anarchivist and M-rongladney joined the channel
#
aaronpk woohoo, finally uploaded my backlog of iphone camera photos to flickr!
#
aaronpk that was about 3000 photos
hs0ucy and Garbee joined the channel
#
tantek whoa
#
tantek nicely done aaronpk
#
tantek do we have any discussion anywhere of how to display or what to do about replies to original posts that have been deleted? e.g. https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/749248017954377728
#
@MerriamWebster @smarick then you're talking to the wrong dictionary—we're descriptivists. We follow language, language doesn't follow us 😁 (twitter.com/_/status/749248017954377728)
#
KevinMarks Should we be caching the in-reply-to preview? There's precedent in embedding tweets preserving the quoted post but losing twitter decoration
#
KevinMarks Eg first 2 here http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/04/draw-something-ceo-grace-and-high.html
#
tantek oh wow there was a much longer exchange and the deletion of intermediate replies broke the thread: https://twitter.com/AcademicsSay/status/749835207864451072
#
@AcademicsSay The singular they. Courtesy of @MerriamWebster. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmfzJLoXgAAkExN.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/749835207864451072)
#
tantek what is in-reply-to preview?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "in-reply-to preview" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
tantek in-reply-to preview is /reply-context
#
Loqi ok
#
aaronpk oh my gosh
#
KevinMarks That's the dictionary version of "standards are documentation not legislation"
#
aaronpk this is a gem https://twitter.com/kcsaff/status/744351065496182784
#
@kcsaff Next time someone complains about singular "they" I'll point them to this 17th century rant against singular "you" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClR3WOnWMAAahG5.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/744351065496182784)
#
KevinMarks I liked that one
#
tantek KevinMarks: figured you'd appreciate
#
tantek their tweet that started that exchange apparently: https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/749241376269824000
#
@MerriamWebster The astute may have noticed a difference in our feed. Our witty and fabulous social media manager is away. But don't worry, they'll return! (twitter.com/_/status/749241376269824000)
#
tantek what is a pronoun?
#
Loqi A pronoun is a word that people often use to refer to other people or objects instead of their names; on the indieweb you can express which pronouns should be used to refer to you https://indieweb.org/Pronoun
#
aaronpk oh gosh i have 78.46GB of photos on flickr now
nitot, mlncn_, minsky, KevinMarks, tantek and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" http://calagator.org/events/1250470570
#
Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Jul 27, 6:30pm at Ankeny Tap and Table
#
aaronpk that's crazy fast
nitot, hs0ucy, snarfed, tantek, Gold and goodoo joined the channel
#
GWG I have been thinking of trying to give the core concepts overview at NYC2.
#
tantek GWG, I think that works best with demos like how aaronpk and benwerd did it at IWS
#
GWG tantek: I want to do a demo.
#
tantek GWG, great! Best thing to do is write yourself a script (like actions you would take, not a javascript) for a demo, and then practice it to make sure it works as you expect
#
tantek we've learned from experience (e.g. on podcasts), that doing demos without scripts can often fail in bizarre and awkward ways
#
GWG Besides, I am 50% of the people who RSVPed
#
tantek GWG, yes I need to get on that
#
tantek do we have a FB POSSE copy?
#
tantek hmm or for HWC
#
GWG aaronpk mirrored the Summit registration page
#
tantek yes that's an excellent start
#
tantek I think aaronpk did a lot for making the IWS a success that we have not yet captured on the "How to run an IndieWebCamp" section on the wiki
#
tantek maybe I can pick his brain about that this weekend
#
tantek I'm happy to do the scribing work
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] Loqi?
#
tantek !tell kevinmarks,kylewm Could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for the HWC SF meetup 2016-07-27 and link to them from https://indieweb.org/events/2016-07-27-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco ? Thanks!
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
GWG I need to figure out the rest of the planning. Like refreshments
#
tantek GWG, do you have enough to go on from here? https://indieweb.org/indiewebcamps#How_to_organize
#
tantek GWG, anything you feel like you have to "figure out", (but can't immediately do), go ahead and add it to https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/Planning
#
GWG I need to know if we have sponsorship
#
GWG Whether I need to feed vegans or just vegetarians
wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek GWG, we should coordinate with Emma on food things, since she's got the venue
#
tantek we may able to get some food/catering from the venue, we should ask at least
#
GWG I need to find a contact method for her.
shiflett, nitot, AndChat|566325 and kbs joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "SiloLife: You can't add personal site with TLD .xyz to @facebook "about" but you can add abc.xyz @google #indieweb" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/silolife-you-cant-add-personal-site-with-tld-xyz-to
rrix, rMdes, nitot and loicm_ joined the channel
#
tantek !tell bear,KartikPrabhu,sandro Would be great to have you at IWC NYC2! 2016-08-27…28 https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
rMdes did you guys have problems with xyz TLD ?
#
rMdes on facebook
#
rMdes can't add it to about box
#
rMdes anti spam captcha each time the link is posted manually
#
rMdes getting a friend of mine to use Known/indieweb
shiflett and leg joined the channel
#
snarfed imported an old joke-ish tumblr of mine, https://carbsryanate.tumblr.com/ , to my own site, https://snarfed.org/page/45#post-18245
#
snarfed feels good
#
aaronpk nice
#
snarfed wordpresstumblrimporter++
#
Loqi wordpresstumblrimporter has 1 karma
#
@ruihildt #facebookfail #indieweb #ownyourdata #freeyourdata https://ruihildt.xyz/2016/can-you-see-the-following-post-photophpfbid1046154252128355seta10461546787949791073741827100002013708309type3-facebookfail-indieweb-ownyourdata https://twitter.com/ruihildt/status/755150143767322624/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/755150143767322624)
Lancey joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Repost of Rui Hildt's Can you see the following post? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1046154252128355" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/repost-of-rui-hildts-can-you-see-the-following-post
powerllama_ and singpolyma joined the channel
#
tantek what is .xyz?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for ".xyz" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
tantek rMdes ^^^ perhaps document the issues you've seen?
wilfredh, cyberjar09, snarfed, CherryPuffs and gwenbell joined the channel