#indieweb 2016-07-20

2016-07-20 UTC
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gRegorLove tantek: Looks good to me.
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gRegorLove Maybe worth uploading a copy of that u-featured photo to the wiki so we're not using instagram cdn url? Presuming the photo taker is ok with CC0
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gRegorLove Ah, it's tantek's. I suspect he's cool with CC0 :)
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@BlueprintNMedia David Shanske https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http%3A%2F%2Findieweb.org%2FUser%3ADavid.shanske.com&ct=ga&cd=CAIyGjE2MzgzNWQyYmUzMmZmNGM6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNFkMzE-PDMe6utiFdQabhvtSbdeVQ #WordPress #plugin (twitter.com/_/status/755576117105426432)
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[chrisaldrich] tantek: I'm optomistic too, so thanks for putting them in there. I'll update them as we go along. Hoping to lock a location for next week tomorrow. I'll see what we can do to keep things up as a lead-in to IWC LA in November
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: How many people do you think will show?
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[chrisaldrich] I've got a verbal yes from about 4. But I'm also doing announcements for it at a few other larger meetings between now and then as well.
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GWG I'm tempted to come out. I have to use up some time off.
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GWG It is either that or go to Europe.
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[chrisaldrich] I've also got a handful of maybes who are waiting on the location/other things in their schedules
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[chrisaldrich] There's a WordPress meet up at the Pasadena Apple Store the night before, so we may grab a few folks there as well.
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[chrisaldrich] With the valuation of the pound right now, the UK has to look pretty nice right now.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I've always wanted to visit Scotland.
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[chrisaldrich] I'd love to go there on a mountain biking trip actually...
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[chrisaldrich] How's the NY planning coming? I'm tempted to come out to your back yard for that one... I'm still thinking about doing a camp in Baltimore in January, but won't have plans for my two other events then locked in until September some time.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I need to track down our venue coordinator.
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[chrisaldrich] No h-card on their site huh? :wink:
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GWG http://emmahodge.org/
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[chrisaldrich] I just bought tickets for WordCamp Los Angeles on Sept 10 & 11...
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Did you enjoy Wordcamp OC?
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[chrisaldrich] It was a fantastic location though it limited the number of people that might have gone.
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GWG I found WCNYC not my cup of tea.
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[chrisaldrich] I had hoped for some more technical-based talks, but overall not too bad.
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GWG I prefer IWC
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[chrisaldrich] I think camps at which at least some of the time is spent building things is always more fulfilling.
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GWG Exactly. I was pondering that.
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[chrisaldrich] Mostly WordCamp OC was missing the vigor of new users (who were shut out of the ticket window that closed after about 5 hours), so there were very few beginner sessions or even an "nstall fest" in the morning of day one.
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GWG Well, to turn toward the positive, I was pondering how to do intro to Indieweb using some demo WordPress sites.
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[chrisaldrich] WordCamp LA has a lot more space, so it'll take them a while to sell out. They've also got a larger community here than the OC area does.
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[chrisaldrich] That's a good question. I've been thinking about something similar or potentially a series of install/use videos (which might also double as documentation for some of the plugins)
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GWG We could certainly use it.
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[chrisaldrich] Using the indiemark levels [http://indieweb.org/indiemark] may be a reasonable outline, though even a step by step set up everything in the IndieWeb Plugin would probably work well too.
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GWG Well, the Indieweb plugin went from trying to be the Jetpack for Indieweb to being a plugin installer, to being a plugin installer + identity/h-card elements. But we can put instructions in it.
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[chrisaldrich] I think I did a few PRs in the last couple of weeks with some additional sketch documentation for a handful of related things.
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GWG We have to change it for Indieweb.org over Indiewebcamp.org, I believe.
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GWG I also made some changes based on requests from a user. I was able to remove a setting.
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[chrisaldrich] Having better instructions on each of the individual ones first would be helpful, then bundling those into the bigger one (as well as the wiki would be useful).
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GWG Well, if you have anything for Post Kinds, I just cleaned up some stuff there.
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GWG Now I'm going over to Syndication Links for some cleanup. Then back to Micropub.
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GWG I rotate around.
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[chrisaldrich] I had a few plugins that added additional data into the standard User profile, but did the identity/h-card stuff add some additional fields into the user profile for adding better h-card support?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Yes.
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[chrisaldrich] It's been a while since I looked at the code, so I wasn't sure which fields were coming from which plugins. I'll have to do a fresh install with only indieweb to test/document things.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm planning on doing an indieweb site for a friend in the next week or so. That'll be a good opportunity to test the latest workflow and I'll put together a long post and some documentation together based on that.
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[chrisaldrich] I saw a new WP dev phillycodehound join the channel last week and hoped he might have some thoughts for us as well as he begins exploring.
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: Was that you with a new blogpost just now?
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GWG Yes. I'm not always in the WordPress Slack channel.
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[chrisaldrich] He popped his head into both. I've got an alert set up for anytime someone mentions WordPress in the channel.
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[chrisaldrich] May have to doublecheck it now that there are more channels...
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I did do a new blogpost, yes.
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GWG I was pondering why I enjoy IWC and why I wish WC was more like it
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GWG Gary Marshall just died.
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[chrisaldrich] That's sad... he was a pretty cool guy, though I haven't spoken to him in 5 or more years...
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GWG Never met him personally. Fan of his work.
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[chrisaldrich] He made some really great stuff in his heyday.
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[chrisaldrich] Taking a break for a bit, back in a while... nice post GWG! https://david.shanske.com/2016/07/19/lessons-learned-indiewebcamp-and-wordcamp/
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Loqi [David Shanske] Lessons Learned from IndiewebCamp and WordCamp
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[kevinmarks] So twitter is making a push about verification. We could do indie verification by having a little bit of js that checks related me backlinks
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aaronpk depends on your definition of "verified"
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aaronpk SSL certs are a form of verification already
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GWG Isn't that Vouch?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Lessons Learned from IndiewebCamp and WordCamp - David Shanske https://david.shanske.com/2016/07/19/lessons-learned-indiewebcamp-and-wordcamp #indieweb" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/lessons-learned-from-indiewebcamp-and-wordcamp---david-shanske-20160719lessons-learned-indiewebcamp-and-wordcamp
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@ChrisAldrich Lessons Learned from IndiewebCamp and WordCamp - David Shanske https://david.shanske.com/2016/07/19/lessons-learned-indiewebcamp-and-wordcamp/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/755616699404029952)
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[kevinmarks] No, you put the verified symbol by each link that links back. It's the rel me auth /indieauth check made visible
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@lightcoin Let's build and support systems that don't put other people in control of our digital identity #freenero #indieweb https://twitter.com/lightcoin/status/755619339538010112 (twitter.com/_/status/755620571770007552)
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@lightcoin Let's build and support systems that don't put other people in control of our digital identity #freemilo #indieweb https://twitter.com/lightcoin/status/755619339538010112 (twitter.com/_/status/755620717962498048)
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aaronpk twitter is talking about verifying a profile, not individual posts
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aaronpk rel-me only verifies that one URL is equivalent to another URL
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aaronpk doesn't say anything about whether a URL represents the person they claim to be
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: Like the new icons in Post Kinds
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Oh?
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[chrisaldrich] Good job. I think they're an improvement over the previous set (particularly the ones in the admin interface which seem slightly different than those in the display, no?)
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[chrisaldrich] The one for "read" looks a bit more like one for "bookmark" though... isn't there one in the set that looks like an open book perhaps?
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: No, same version both times. Just tweaked the colors.
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[chrisaldrich] It's a nice touch
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aaronpk test
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GWG aaronpk: ACK
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aaronpk it works
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GWG It?
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aaronpk just moving stuff
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aaronpk ignore me
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[kevinmarks] "Twitter's support page says it favors people who use their real name or recognizable stage name, as well as a profile or header photo that accurately represents the person. You can also provide URLs to support the request"
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tantek is this the "validated" thing?
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aaronpk yep
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[kevinmarks] https://support.twitter.com/articles/20174631
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aaronpk i filled it out, we'll see what happens
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aaronpk twitter++ for allowing stage names and not requiring a dumb "real names" policy
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Loqi twitter has -6 karma (1 in this channel)
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tantek what is real names?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "real names" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is a real name?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "real name" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek huh
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[kevinmarks] "When providing URLs to support your request, choose sites that help express the account holder’s newsworthiness or relevancy in their field."
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aaronpk i had fun with that :)
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[kevinmarks] Hm, sounds more like notabiliy
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aaronpk yeah "If you believe your account is of public interest and should be verified, this article outlines information about submitting a request."
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tantek what is verified?
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Loqi verified refers to a content or profile that is verified to belong to a certain identity https://indieweb.org/verified
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[kevinmarks] Previously http://epeus.blogspot.com/2011/08/google-plus-must-stop-this-identity.html
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cweiske img.twitter.com/verified?user=kevinmarks
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Loqi [indieweb] "Syndicated copies to silos include "Syndicated to:" text · Issue #32 · dshanske/syndication-links https://github.com/dshanske/syndication-links/issues/32
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Loqi Similar to this issue with Jetpack: https://github.com/Automattic/jetpack/issues/4399
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Loqi The text output from Syndication Links" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/syndicated-copies-to-silos-include-syndicated-to-text-issue-32
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KartikPrabhu Loqi: messages?
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KartikPrabhu o!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: did you already get the message about IWC NYC2 then?
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prtksxna aaronpk: Finally got around to adding issues to the wiki repo. Sorry about the delay.
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petermolnar morning; I was wondering if hinting the post type in a mf2 friendly way would make any sense, especially for readers
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petermolnar for example, for filtering purposes
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Loqi guten morgen
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Ruxton people are doing it for postkinds
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Ruxton I use as-comic, as-photo, etc. as it seemed many were doing that already
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petermolnar I still want to be able to differenciate art-photo/image and casual-photo/image but I don't think that interests many more
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Ruxton my question to that is, why would i care as a consumer of that MF2 that you discenered it as an "art photo" and not a "casual photo"?
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Ruxton I'd also argue maybe a category is adequate for that?
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cweiske because I want my reader to filter out all the shtty i-eat-this-today photos
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petermolnar or a tag, I'm aware of that
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petermolnar but exactly what cweiske said :D
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Ruxton cweiske: stop following people who post them? ;)
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petermolnar Ruxton no
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cweiske Ruxton, you might be interested in the higher-quality content
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petermolnar the whole reason I stand with the indieweb is to have a central identity of myself
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Ruxton cweiske: that's fine, but the I'd just filter your category/tag down
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cweiske I follow aaronpk and tantek's articles, but not their daily chitchat
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petermolnar but people who are interested in my photos will not be in my day to day life, and vice versa
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petermolnar tags could work, but tags are hard, because they are free types
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petermolnar so you'd need to specify per-site, by manually checking them
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Ruxton I'd argue thats better
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sknebel people should be easily able to provide multiple "feeds"/views on their content
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Ruxton but I guess you'd want to ban all food ;)
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Ruxton sknebel: I don't think people care, consumers should be able to configure filtered views
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Ruxton eg. I don't care about posting food pics, but I'd happilly tag them #food so people could filter them out
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Ruxton I also don't mind seeing them, a few of my fav spots have come from people posting pics of eating there
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sknebel I think it makes sense to provide different views
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cweiske that's nice for you
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Ruxton I don't thik people *should* care
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sknebel many already have at least some filtered view
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sknebel e.g. don't show replies to others on the homepage
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sknebel If I were to use my site more twitter-like I'd probably offer a "blog" view and a "full" view
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sknebel but I also don't think that is something that needs new attributes etc
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petermolnar i ended up using an all-in stream for home; using tags as main labelling; and, because wordpress has built-in undying categories, categories as post-type cache
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petermolnar this latter is auto-added as a tag
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petermolnar so only tags are shown
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Ruxton and what I meant by people shouldn't care is posters should just put things in categories/tags and you should filter those in your reader
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Ruxton or subscribe to their category feed/page
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Ruxton and that solves the issue (with the only caveat of every user could be unique)
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Ruxton chat.indieweb.org hasn't synced a message in the last 3 hours, been syncing joins, but not seeing other stuff..
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Ruxton and it just synced that
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Ruxton ahh Timezone ;)
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cweiske another timezone bug
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cweiske you only see the live data streaming in
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Ruxton yup, thats it
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GWG Ruxton, as is a notation for Activity Stream vocabulary
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GWG Not an adopted thing exactly
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@marianoviola Web dichotomies: "State of The IndieWeb" (http://tantek.com/2016/190/b1/state-of-indieweb-summit) and How "Blogs Work Today" (http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/06/11/how-blogs-work-today/) via @OReillyMedia (twitter.com/_/status/755701018772533248)
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@calum_ryan One week to go! Homebrew Website Club London (The Hub – Covent Garden) July 27th https://indieweb.org/events/2016-07-27-homebrew-website-club #IndieWeb https://twitter.com/t/status/743158907892174848 (twitter.com/_/status/755706768236351488)
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voxpelli petermolnar: regarding that tags needs to specified per site – one can use URL:s for categories through u-category – this is eg. how one can tag a post as IndieNews: https://news.indieweb.org/how-to-submit-a-post
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voxpelli I think there has been discussions on somehow making a sites "firehose" of posts discoverable if someone wants to subscribe to everything rather than just a specific section. That might make sense to subscribe to without making sense in the primary UI
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voxpelli I eg. have my archive as a firehose list, but my main sections are split up
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petermolnar this ties back to my self argument of do I need more than one taxonomy?
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petermolnar if I want to make it easier for machines, I probably do, so u-category as (extendes list of) post type and tag as regular folksonomy of whatever is related to the post
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petermolnar but as far as I understand, there is only u-category in mf2, am I right?
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petermolnar p-category, sorry
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sknebel petermolnar: I think so, yes
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voxpelli petermolnar: I would see h-entry there as being a documentation of observed best practices and p-category is certainly the most common case
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voxpelli petermolnar: eg. person tags also use u-category though: https://indieweb.org/person-tag
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Loqi [indieweb] "Playing @withknown CSS and getting along to understand a bit more how #Known Theme work #indieweb" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/playing-withknown-css-and-getting-along-to-understand-a-bit
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Loqi [indieweb] "How to disable the @withknown Audio plugin? is it core or using #antiplugins[] = 'Audio' could work? #indieweb" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/how-to-disable-the-withknown-audio-plugin-is-it-core
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@marinintim Может Homebrew Website Club? https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/755769535291125760)
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aaronpk my food posts all end up in a separate "feed" on my site
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aaronpk use an image recognition API if you want any fancier filtering :)
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Loqi [indieweb] "IndieWeb" by mrb https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12130144
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tantek oh neat - is that the first time the new home page and domain has made it to HN?
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[chrisaldrich] It may be a few years out, but who's to say that there isn't an indieweb algorithm in the future (similar to facebook's) that's able to sit on top of hundreds of thousands of sites (federated perhaps) that helps to algorighmically bubble up what users prefer to see in their readers (one canyt follow everything)? Having a way to better represent posts, photos, etc. with reasonable metadata with mf2 as in the above discussion wil be much more im
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[chrisaldrich] it's important to think about this now.
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tantek nah, it's important to think about it when you're ready to start building it for yourself to use, when it's a high priority itch for you
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tantek otherwise leave it til then
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tantek and focus on current itches first
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GWG tantek: By the way, still trying to track down the venue organizer. I'm waiting for approval to follow them on Twitter, as they are protected.
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tantek GWG, try an @-mention to say hey fellow IndieWebCamp NYC2 co-organizer, let's start working on details! (link to wiki page)
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GWG I was going to try a DM, but it has probably been long enough. I just usually don't take things public as a first step.
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tantek GWG, if you start your post with the @-mention then it doesn't get "pushed" to anyone who isn't following both of you
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tantek so that's only "semi-public"
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tantek hey HWC Nürnberg is on now!
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bjoern Greetings from the HWC Nürnberg crew! :)
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tantek hello bjoern !!
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[chrisaldrich] It is an itch now, my problem is that I don't have a big enough or well-formed enough data set to make it personally realizable at present. :slightly_smiling_face:
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GWG On that note, time for work...after that...continuing my round robin of minor plugin bugfixes...yesterday was Post Kinds, moved to minor shifts in Syndication Links. May swing through updating the indiewebcamp links in the Indieweb plugin to Indieweb.org, and then back to Micropub.
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aaronpk [chrisaldrich]: i've solved that essentially by filtering things by keywords. works good enough for now.
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[chrisaldrich] I'd like to make my own data (posts, photos, etc) not only useful for me, but more useful and consumable by others as well.
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[chrisaldrich] yes, having some basic filtering tools is great, but they're more prone to only be used by gen1, what happens when my mom joins?
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[chrisaldrich] In fact, it's fine when my mom likes family photos, but it feels a bit embarrassing when she's liking my posts about quantum information theory. :wink:
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@SecNewsBot Hacker News - IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/755801648665092097)
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aaronpk i'm just not convinced an algorithmic solution for filtering posts is the right approach. luckily facebook and twitter are trying it out at a large scale now so we'll get to see the results from that
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tantek chrisaldrich haha sounds like you should contribute an opinion to this: https://indieweb.org/publics#IndieWeb_Thoughts
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Loqi nice
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[chrisaldrich] It's those use cases that make it an itch for me in addition to research I do in areas like genetic algorighms that will be applicable to these problems later on
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@TrendsOn_TOP IndieWeb - http://trendson.top/indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/755802270688800768)
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[chrisaldrich] thanks Tantek, I do appreciate the "build for yourself for now" philosophy, but I also know there's a lot of functionality Harry & Mary Beercan will want in Gen4 that some should think about in the backs of our minds.
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tantek chrisaldrich, as someone else who posts on many subjects that may have appeal/interest to different sets of friends/followers, I sympathize
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tantek (from travel photos, personal insights / observations, to dry/professional web standards stuff)
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tantek the point about the latter gen stuff is that it's hard to really illuminate what's going to be needed for that without *first* building stuff and iterating yourself
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tantek and growing that bit by bit, person by person, generation by generation
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tantek nearly no one has enough "future vision" to just leap to the what is the right answer for gen4, so don't bother. instead, iterate your way there with real world building / experimenting
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[chrisaldrich] a lot of the stuff I'd like to (and should) post more about has such a tiny niche audience compared to the more quotidient material which has a larger audience; I suppose I'll just continue building the training set. :slightly_smiling_face:
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[chrisaldrich] Thanks for the morale boost Tantek.
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[chrisaldrich] back to this morning's mini-project: Documentation!
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Loqi rise and shine!
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tantek chrisaldrich yes! just keep posting what *you* feel like posting about, even just to add to your personal searchable archives
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tantek I've even altered my own posting behavior (in that way) since I wrote up https://indieweb.org/publics#Tantek (so I should update that)
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Loqi snarfed: GWG left you a message 2 weeks, 3 days ago: I found a better way to do one of the changes I was doing based on something I did in webmentions. Going to resubmit as part of the request to clean up.
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 2 weeks, 3 days ago: do you get any value from @WordPressTTT ? Seems to just repeat stuff seen elsewhere with no additional value. Considering banning as spam.
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snarfed huh interesting, switched tells back to triggering on join, not message?
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aaronpk i forgot to rename the !tells to the new channel!
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snarfed ah
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aaronpk and apparently forgot to disable triggering it on join
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aaronpk lots of changes lately
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aaronpk and some nasty server reboots coming in the next couple days too
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snarfed servers gotta server
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snarfed serverless++
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Loqi serverless has 1 karma
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aaronpk I wish more server less platforms were portable between vendors
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aaronpk cant really pick up your AWS stack and run it on google
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bear you can with work on the infra provisioning
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Loqi bear: tantek left you a message 2 days, 3 hours ago: Would be great to have you at IWC NYC2! 2016-08-27…28 https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2
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bear I rotate my servers from aws, gce, packt and rackspace quite often
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snarfed [obligatory container plug]
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bear heck, even containers don't cross vendor boundaries properly
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bear in reality - their marketing will say it does, but when you try to implement it...
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snarfed maybe not perfectly, but they're a big step in that direction beyond VMS/bare metal
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aaronpk Moving to #indieweb-dev since there's some details of my pending reboots to discuss
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snarfed ta ta
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Loqi [indieweb] "Support Post Kind: Recipe · Issue #57 · dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/issues/57
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Loqi I've been playing around with food recipes lately and thought this might be another worthwhile/relatively common" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/support-post-kind-recipe-issue-57-dshanskeindieweb-post-kinds-dshanskeindieweb-post-kindsissues57ive-been-playing
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Loqi
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@paulrobertlloyd Hey @indiewebcamp! I see you have a new logo, and I like it. 👍🏻 (twitter.com/_/status/755862939840774144)
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@egoexpress Had a lot of fun (as always) at today's #HWC Nuremberg. Managed to create some content for my blog and did some necessary updates. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/755863867989778432)
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miklb aaronpk any suggestions on where to start debugging the error I got on Quill "Your endpoint did not return a Location header."
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miklb I haven't changed anything on my end
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aaronpk that's your micropub endpoint not returning the Location header after it creates the post. did the post get created anyway?
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miklb showing a 500 Internal error, server: cowboy
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aaronpk what server? can you check the error logs?
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miklb did not create post.
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miklb I see this in quill http://cdn.miklb.com/images/New_Post_2016-07-20_17-12-19.png
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aaronpk what's your micropub server?
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miklb http://miklb-micropub.herokuapp.com/micropub/miklb.com
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aaronpk check the console logs there
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miklb checking
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miklb indieauth token failed
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aaronpk so your server rejected the token that quill provided?
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miklb looks like it
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aaronpk when was the last time you logged in to Quill? (it'll make a new token each time you log in)
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Loqi what
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miklb I had to log in today.
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miklb hadn't logged in a while
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miklb s/hadn't/hadn't had to/
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Loqi miklb meant to say: hadn't had to logged in a while
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miklb gah. I haven't had to login for a while. Last time I used it was 3 days ago
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miklb maybe bridgy is at play too
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aaronpk bridgy doesn't do anything with micropub so likely not
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miklb well, the syndicate-to links
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aaronpk ah
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miklb did you change something on that?
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miklb when I just tried to refresh them, coming up blank now
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aaronpk yeah Quill looks for a different format for the syndicate-to fields
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aaronpk check out the example here https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#syndication-targets I think Quill only cares about "uid" and "name" right now tho
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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miklb how recently did this change? last 3 days?
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aaronpk no, a while ago, but quill only re-checks when you log in
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miklb hmm. I just don't know enough to debug this. I have uid and name.
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miklb I'll try to catch voxpelli tomorrow. Might be a good time to switch/update my micropub stuff at same time.
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neilpdx hello CherryPuffs
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CherryPuffs Hi neilpdx
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neilpdx nice to meet you
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CherryPuffs Nice to meet you too! :3
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+34) (view diff)
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aaronpk oops
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