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# 01:02 lindner[m] Testing matrix.org gateway to freenode...
# 01:03 rascul so i have 13 invites for keybase.io, not sure why they still require invites but if you want one just give me an email address to send it to
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# 02:54 ChrisAldrich !tell rascul I'll take you up for keybase; I think I've been in their queue forever...
# 02:54 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 03:13 ChrisAldrich I've spent part of the day going through some old data stores and importing content into my site. Feels good to own a bigger piece of my web.
# 03:14 ChrisAldrich GWG: I know you've made a bunch of changes in post kinds since the last release, but were you still doing some major refactoring?
# 03:15 ChrisAldrich I was looking at some of the code to make some small fixes, but it looked more differently than the last time I'd looked at it a few months ago.
# 03:15 GWG I've been working on a post for the Make WordPress Core blog trying to get interest in improving the pingback display.
# 03:16 GWG ChrisAldrich: I have a lot of refactoring ideas.
# 03:16 GWG Will summarize, but if I get too technical, we may want to move to the -dev room
# 03:16 ChrisAldrich are you sticking with pingback/trackback on that post, or are you injecting some webmention goodness into it? It's a pretty big platform you could use to garner support. :)
# 03:17 GWG WordPress 4.6 enhanced the optional registration of meta. I wanted to experiment with that in regards to MF2 meta.
# 03:19 ChrisAldrich I heard you mentioned they put in some useful small changes, but hadn't looked into any of it yet myself.
# 03:19 GWG ChrisAldrich: I mention Webmentions as a protocol that offers several mprovements over pingbacks, but my advocacy is for display improvements. And I'd be trying to make it so they could be used by both.
# 03:19 ChrisAldrich You've overseeing maintenance of both pingbacks/trackbacks now right?
# 03:20 GWG ChrisAldrich: I am the component maintainer. I have a lot of stuff I couldn't get into 4.6 related to it that improves overall infrastructure and several that benefit webmentions as well.
# 03:21 GWG The problem with me being the maintainer is I open as many as I close
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# 03:25 ChrisAldrich " is similar essentially to how Bridgy sends generic webmentions to one's homepage when they don't relate to a particular post right?
# 03:25 GWG Yes. And it was proposed for WordPress 10 years ago
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# 03:28 GWG ChrisAldrich: I had an idea for that I want to file an issue about with that.
# 03:29 ChrisAldrich I thought of filing an issue, but wasn't sure where to hang it really.
# 03:30 ChrisAldrich I've just been making the changes manually in mySQL once a week or so.
# 03:30 AngeloGl1 its auto-commiting every 30 minutes and i've got an idea how to incorporate some of the remaining w/o repr h-cards
# 03:30 GWG ChrisAldrich: We have an issue in Webmentions for it. I just wanted to look into doing it.
# 03:31 AngeloGl1 just wanted to grab you while you're in the chat -- your /blog's h-entries e-content includes all the social media buttons and is bloating the crawl data massively
# 03:32 ChrisAldrich That reminds me, what happened to the webmention stuff you were working on at camp in Portland at the end?
# 03:35 GWG ChrisAldrich: pfefferle is often busy? That is why I have my own experimental plugin to play with these ideas, but still contribute the more mature ideas to the more stable one.
# 03:35 ChrisAldrich pfefferle just merged a small rewrite I did to hopefully help the webmention form plugin make sense to "outsiders"
# 03:36 GWG I feel guilty pressing him. The experimental solution allows me to test my ideas, even self-dogfood them.
# 03:37 GWG I've gone back to it because I needed a break from other things.
# 03:37 GWG I really would like to get some things fixed and deploy it to my live site.
# 03:38 ChrisAldrich Angelo: Thanks, but I'm aware, and have a few "internal" bug fixes to change it. Some of them are dependent on other community-based code that needs to be fixed too.
# 03:38 GWG Webmentions and More includes Semantic Linkbacks and a Webmention Form
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# 03:39 KevinMarks I could maybe put them elsewhere, though the sidebar on desktop works
# 03:39 ChrisAldrich KevinMarks, I also noticed you had a section about "friends" that is pushed under those Twitter @'s that disappears because there are so many of them.
# 03:41 ChrisAldrich KevinMarks, I contemplated leaving mine on the front page, but I analogized them to having a bloated blogroll show up in a sidebar on every page.
# 03:42 ChrisAldrich GWG, I've been in the midst of setting up a more robust test site for doing such things, but I've been a bit more focused on my personal site the past few weeks.
# 03:43 GWG I am setting up two test sites on my test server. I want them to be able to webmention each other.
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# 03:46 ChrisAldrich Though I also often use my Known installation for doing that to some extent.
# 03:47 ChrisAldrich GWG: how's IWC NY2 shaping up? Any advice for someone planning something in November, besides get started early?
# 03:48 GWG ChrisAldrich: I'm horrible at promotion.
# 03:49 ChrisAldrich Did anything useful come out of the push on jeffjarvis? I would have hoped his captive students would find it very interesting.
# 03:50 GWG aaronpk: There are only 4 registrations on the NYC2 page. Are there any more from Tito?
# 03:52 ChrisAldrich "Webmentions and More" replaces Webmentions and Semantic Linkbacks? and then adds on top of them?
# 03:52 GWG ChrisAldrich: Yes. So basically I get to experiment with both. Inside the plugin, the files are still independent.
# 03:55 ChrisAldrich aaronpk, speaking of camps, you mentioned you were sitting on IWC stickers/t-shirts, can you give me a price for a shirt or two and a bunch of stickers with shipping. It'd be nice to have some to help promote LA when I attend some other related upcoming camps.
# 04:01 GWG ChrisAldrich: What else would you want in the webmention plugin, out of curiosity?
# 04:07 ChrisAldrich I'm hard pressed to think of what else should be in webmention plugin. For most users, out of the box it seems fairly robust.
# 04:08 ChrisAldrich Most of my issues generally seem to be more theme-based with how webmentions are output, things like facepiling likes/favorites in the manner of your commentwalker concept.
# 04:09 ChrisAldrich I also just noticed that for some reason I hadn't been following it in github...
# 04:12 ChrisAldrich I've also recently been getting some mixed webmention comments from brid.gy. Generally I've been fixing them manually, but I need to spend some time sorting out what's actually causing the issue. I suspect it's happening on the WordPress side, and it's only about 1 in every 20 webmentions, so it hasn't been horrible.
# 04:13 ChrisAldrich There are some interesting thoughts in the webmention plugin issue queue, but many don't apply to my typical set up.
# 04:13 GWG ChrisAldrich: My goal is to keep iterating till it is robust enough to stand up to anything.
# 04:14 GWG It would have to be if Core might adopt it someday
# 04:15 ChrisAldrich I have been working on some stuff to own all of my past Twitter data (and actually display it). Toward that end, having webmentions for custom post types could be useful, and I could see broader need for that in the broader WP community.
# 04:16 ChrisAldrich GWG: In your mind, where does webmention rank in comparison for pingbacks/trackbacks in terms of that type of robustness?
# 04:17 GWG The protocol or the current WordPress implementation?
# 04:18 ChrisAldrich I hadn't thought about it from the bigger perspective, but now that you mention it, both...
# 04:19 GWG Webmention attempts to answer a lot of the issues with the previous protocols.
# 04:19 GWG I spent a good percentage of the spring looking at them all.
# 04:20 ChrisAldrich I've spent some time reading through the webmention parts and picking apart the WP implementation, though I've far from mastered it all. I've not looked at any of the pingback/trackback specs and suspect I may never get there.
# 04:21 GWG Trackback puts the power of display into the hands of the sender.
# 04:21 ChrisAldrich Though I do suspect your knowledge of all three will very likely be the tipping point for the broader WP community accepting webmention.
# 04:21 GWG Pingbacks switched it to having the receiver decide on the display.
# 04:22 ChrisAldrich You notion of improving pingbacks/trackbacks in a way to make room for webmentions seems like a strong idea though.
# 04:24 ChrisAldrich How many themes actually take advantage of displaying pingbacks? I don't think many really do in a worthwhile way do they? At least I haven't seen it in my experience.
# 04:25 GWG Well, that is why I'm trying to focus on the visual.
# 04:26 aaronpk GWG quite a few Tito registrations actually! I'll send you some info tokorrow
# 04:26 GWG aaronpk: Thank you. I'd like to know the count.
# 04:26 ChrisAldrich The way webmentions show up as a default in most themes is the way I've always thought that pingbacks/trackbacks should.
# 04:26 aaronpk ChrisAldrich I will figure out shirts and stickers tomorrow too, thanks for the reminder
# 04:28 ChrisAldrich aaronpk: Thanks! DrupalCamp and WordCamp LA are both just around the corner, and being a walking billboard will help a lot.
# 04:28 GWG I have to have my post peer reviewed before I'm allowed to post it though.
# 04:31 ChrisAldrich If they'll let you finish it out with a "Looking toward the future" section that allows you to wax poetic about how webmentions might be a way to combine the best of the prior two specs in a more robust way, that would be supremely cool.
# 04:31 GWG ChrisAldrich: I need to have it reviewed by another component maintainer.
# 04:34 GWG The WordPress Core team has its procedures.
# 04:36 ChrisAldrich I've run into some interesting folks over the past few months who are generally indieweb favorable, but I've yet to see any of them adopt it directly. I'm stalking a few folks for the upcoming LA WordCamp to buttonhole them to see if we can't get some additional help.
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# 04:40 GWG Something went down and my sites are down.
# 04:40 GWG I guess that Mailgun integration should be moved up
# 04:42 GWG Looks like there is a problem with my database server.
# 04:43 GWG But there is a new version of MariaDB, so I might as well upgrade
# 04:54 GWG No. It looks like it hasn't been purging the binary logs.
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# 05:08 GWG Apparently, 28GB of binary log data in 7 days. I'm going to have to have a talk with my brother.
# 05:10 ChrisAldrich Wow! I can only think that it would take a few years to get that much data over dialup in the 90s.
# 05:10 GWG My brother shares my database server, and he's been dumping in data lately.
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# 05:50 KevinMarks My 2 rel-friends on that site are a demo from a decade ago. I should do better
# 05:50 KevinMarks I preserve my tweets in the laziest way possible (download when I remember, put in a directory)
# 05:51 ChrisAldrich Hey, they sound like good friends to have. I only noticed because I was recently thinking of re-engineering my own blogroll/following with XFN, etc.
# 05:53 ChrisAldrich What are you using for displaying the tweets? It seems like I've seen that interface/set up before somewhere when experimenting, but don't recall where now.
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# 07:01 GWG I just had to upgrade Mediawiki. I feel sympathy for aaronpk
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# 08:51 gkbrk replaced my shell script that uploads my static website with a makefile, this should make it easier to add build hooks later
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# 10:22 cmal yet another gray day of racist French people comparing veiled women to Nazis while actual nazis get closer to the power and terrorize the local population, HOW ARE YOU?
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# 14:55 Loqi hentry ï¼ˆãƒžãƒ¼ã‚¯ã‚¢ãƒƒãƒ—: microformats.orgï¼‰ æ§‹é€ åŒ–ãƒ‡ãƒ¼ã‚¿ã‚¨ãƒ©ãƒ¼ ãŒå‡ºãŸã¨ãã®å¯¾å‡¦æ–¹æ³•
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# 17:06 GWG I've just created two WordPress sites to test sending webmentions between.
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# 19:35 GWG I need to decide on my fake people
# 19:39 GWG What do you call it when you want to pretend to be both sides of an interaction?
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# 19:53 GWG I spent the weekend trying to make the argument for better pingback display in WordPress again
# 19:55 GWG I read through every pingback and trackbacks ticket in the system
# 19:56 tantek the whole "show stuff on the home page" is an interesting use case and likely deserves documentation on it own
# 19:57 tantek the approach however, "reverse pingbacks" feels like the "I have a hammer, let me see if it will work here" plumbing/tool-first approach
# 19:57 tantek that is, it's not clear such a user feature would/should have anything to do with pingback (or now webmention)
# 19:58 GWG The idea of mentioning your homepage is one that interests me, if your URL represents your identity
# 19:58 tantek yes, I believe we have those documented already has homepage webmentions
# 20:00 GWG So I was more interested in getting that support into my implementation.
# 20:03 GWG I want to go back to working on my Webmentions implementation.
# 20:04 GWG I got stalled on Syndication again.
# 20:07 tantek That I understand. I've spent way too many hours tweaking details of my Syndication to Twitter code.
# 20:08 tantek (and once I support displaying webmentions, I'll have to do more tweaking, e.g. will likely switch from PSCs to always having PSLs on my POSSE tweets)
# 20:09 tantek GWG, I am behind on #Indieweb, #indieweb-dev archives for the past two weeks.
# 20:09 tantek What would you say are the 1-5 most important indieweb things that happened in the past two weeks?
# 20:13 GWG Were you here when IWC LA got a new organizer?
# 20:14 GWG Apparently his circumstances have changed and he's going to take a secondary role.
# 20:16 GWG Waiting on aaronpk for additional Tito registration data
# 20:17 aaronpk Quick update from the email summary I got says there are 19 registrations
# 20:18 GWG And I got access to the Make WordPress Core blog to write a post outlining my goals as component maintainer of Pings and Trackbacks
# 20:18 GWG If I get interest, I may suspend some things to work on that for 4.7 or 4.8
# 20:20 GWG I tried to talk WordPress core developer Aaron Jorbin into coming. I missed his talk in Klingon at Wordcamp NYC
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# 20:21 GWG We need to finalize things I suppose.
# 20:21 aaronpk Tho definitely keep in mind the typical turnout rate. I'd guess 50%
# 20:22 tantek I'm wondering if we should put some faces on the event page as key people participating
# 20:22 tantek like the organizers and Dan at least - open to other nominations as well
# 20:23 tantek I have the impression that events that highlight key speakers/participants tend to draw more people, and get people who got tickets to show up more
# 20:23 GWG GWG is a tremendous pain in the rear...but in a good way.
# 20:24 tantek GWG is a diligent and thorough WordPress developer who is optimistic about the future of the independent web, and interoperating across platforms.
# 20:26 GWG I am preparing to demo Webmentions using two test WordPress sites that I launched on subdomains
# 20:27 GWG I am trying to figure out what to make the h-cards.
# 20:29 tantek GWG, you could pick two (in)famous historical letter correspondents
# 20:29 tantek (two famous people that wrote each other letters many years ago, where the back/forth was documented)
# 20:30 GWG My students at work didn't appreciate me having them practice making bookings with the names of signers of the Declaration of Independence
# 20:30 GWG Apparently Button Gwinnett lacks a following
# 20:36 GWG I would come. I have a place to stay down there.
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# 20:38 Loqi gregorlove has 77 karma (65 in this channel)
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# 20:54 Loqi kevinmarks has 244 karma (191 in this channel)
# 20:59 [kevinmarks] Lovelace and Babbage would be good too. Sydney Padua has lots of their correspondence in her comic
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# 21:43 aaronpk oh awesome, I found a more recent backup of my first website so I can restore more of the pages now!
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# 21:54 lindner[m] !nick irc.freenode.net plindner to @appservice-irc:matrix.org.
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# 21:57 lindner[m] user error — matrix.org has some odd ways of assigning nicks; looks like that won’t do it..
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# 23:13 aaronpk GWG: I can mail you an extra camera and jabra mic to borrow for the weekend
# 23:14 GWG aaronpk: I ordered an extra webcam. Which gives me 3. Two C615s and 1 C920. And three boundary microphones.
# 23:16 GWG I'm trying to figure out what to broadcast on.
# 23:19 GWG Oh, that is where they stuck it...
# 23:20 GWG The issue I never figured out is how to do 3 streams at once.
# 23:20 GWG I think we would need multiple accounts.
# 23:21 aaronpk hm i think you can do it by setting up multiple events
# 23:21 GWG But I don't think you can do it all at once.
# 23:21 GWG If not, maybe the remote participants will host.
# 23:22 GWG Or someone else will log into their account and stream it.
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# 23:58 miklb GWG pretty cool that you got Aaron Jorbin to attend.
# 23:58 GWG miklb: Read more closely. I tried to get him.
# 23:59 miklb oh, I thought I saw a tweet from him that he was attending
# 23:59 GWG He wasn't sure when I asked him, but said he would see.
# 23:59 Loqi [jorbin] I’m attending IndieWebCamp NYC