#indieweb 2016-10-24
2016-10-24 UTC
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Idea of the Week: Web Directions Alumni" by Ricky Onsman on 2016-10-24 https://www.webdirections.org/blog/idea-week-web-directions-alumni/
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# @kevinmarks Why you should blog instead of writing hacker news comments http://danluu.com/hn-comments/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/790388285944139776)
# Loqi [indieweb] "Why you should blog instead of writing hacker news comments http://danluu.com/hn-comments/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-10-24 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/why-you-should-blog-instead-of-writing-hacker-news-comments
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# snarfed hey aaronpk, looking at https://micropub.rocks/server-tests/804 , i'm surprised it expects 401 instead of 403
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# KevinMarks I need a js;dr equivalent for "low contrast; didn't read"
# KartikPrabhu lc;dr
# KartikPrabhu or cr;dr = couldn't read;didn't read
# KevinMarks Right, but people already understood js as an abbreviation
# KevinMarks I don't like the demonizing of design in general that has been one reaction to my post
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# KevinMarks_ ??;dr
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# tantek Jeena++ for https://jeena.net/media/2016/IndieWeb-Jeena.pdf
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# sl007 Jeena : New logo is here : https://indieweb.org/img/indiewebcamp.svg ;) https://indieweb.org/2016/Berlin
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# misuba anyone awake to help me figure out why an h-entry won’t validate?
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# @webrocker @m_ott @helloanselm immer dieses IoT (indieweb off topics) (twitter.com/_/status/790511039322460160)
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# sl007 misuba: apart from http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/ - yes
# misuba sl007: all the validators and bridgy agree: http://gibberish.com/archives/2016/10/23/798/ , which has an h-entry in it, has no h-entry in it
# misuba …at the top level? wow
# misuba holy crap yeah. how is that getting in there.
# misuba okay cool. thanks all
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# gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Notes, Highlights, and Marginalia: From E-books to Online" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-10-24 http://boffosocko.com/2016/10/24/notes-highlights-and-marginalia/
# Loqi [indieweb] "Notes, Highlights, and Marginalia: From E-books to Online" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-10-24 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/notes-highlights-and-marginalia-from-e-books-to-online-ded35dc069bb?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
# Loqi [indieweb] "Notes, Highlights, and Marginalia: From E-books to Online" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-10-24 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/notes-highlights-and-marginalia-from-e-books-to-online-ded35dc069bb?source=rss------css-5
# Loqi [indieweb] "Notes, Highlights, and Marginalia: From E-books to Online" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-10-24 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/notes-highlights-and-marginalia-from-e-books-to-online-ded35dc069bb?source=rss-f9e3747f5480------2
# tantek !tell ChrisAldrich re: http://boffosocko.com/2016/10/24/notes-highlights-and-marginalia/ have you seen https://indieweb.org/marginalia and especially the clever design of what KartikPrabhu does with them? E.g. https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia
# Loqi A venue is a named location or address/geo that is typically used for checkins https://indieweb.org/venue
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# gRegorLove what is geo?
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# tantek that is, p-location is the location a post was published, whereas u-category is used for tagging what a post is about, and thus we have u-category h-card for person-tags, but if the h-card is a venue, then the post is about a venue as well, or u-category h-adr (h-geo or geo: URL) would convey that the post is about a specific address (or geo accordingly!)
# tantek often these may be the same in practice, but they're also often not (e.g. posting photos of a place long after the fact, from some other location. this confusion can easily happen if you have location enabled tweets for example, and post a photo to twitter that you took yesterday somewhere else - Twitter will still post you *current* location, not the location of the photo)
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# jonnybarnes so is a “checkin” to a venue, posting about or from?
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# tantek searches google for "postquare" definition and finds http://indieweb.org/irc/2014-11-14/line/1415993756740 ?
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# [schmarty] "the night in question"
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# KartikPrabhu are "notes with location" interpreted as "this note was posted from [location]" ?
# KartikPrabhu ok
# KartikPrabhu but a checkin is "this note is about this [location]" ?
# gRegorLove Yep, I checkin sometimes as I'm leaving, or shortly after.
# KartikPrabhu making plain language statements helps me
# tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#p-location "p-location - location the entry was posted from" phew
# gRegorLove e.g. checkin to a movie theater, the one here usually has no coverage inside so it's after I leave, unless I remember to checkin before I enter.
# gRegorLove gives Loqi the fragmention
# KartikPrabhu would a checkin translate as "this post is about [location] where I was recently" ?
# KartikPrabhu ok so checkin = "i am at [location]"? but that simply sounds like location tracking, unless there is a way to distinguish it as a venue of some sort
# KartikPrabhu sorry wrong words. I meant "location declaring"
# [schmarty] i'm looking through older checkin discussion on the wiki and i see some mentions of "h-as-checkin"
# KartikPrabhu [schmarty]: yeah explicit post-types like that are discouraged for reasons tantek will explain/link to next
# KartikPrabhu ;)
# KartikPrabhu what is explicit post type?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "explicit post type" yet. Would you like to create it?
# [schmarty] i remember reading that h-as-* is an anti-pattern because explicit post types are an anti-pattern. :}
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# fiatjaf code is here: https://github.com/fiatjaf/webvatar.com
# @caseorganic @grapealope @mybasis Oh man. There needs to be an device deaths page. It's not just websites anymore. https://indieweb.org/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/790670709290852352)
# [schmarty] this is probably wading into well-tread territory that is new to me, but it does strike me that a post describing a checkin might need something to indicate that it's a different verb than a post with location.
# KartikPrabhu fiatjaf: so it as a "avatar as a service"? also the links above the images don't seem to do anything
# [schmarty] wow, bricking a fitness watch
# [schmarty] or some way to explicitly group them? location-with-embedded-time?
# KartikPrabhu tantek: how about the following: if a post has a p-location and a u-category with the same p-location it is a checkin?
# KartikPrabhu the time can be inferred from dt-published or "dt-created" (if that exists)
# [schmarty] hmm. h-event has its own mf2 definition. http://microformats.org/wiki/h-event - "h-checkin" seems like overkill but my mind went there first.
# [schmarty] it is comforting to put labels on things :}
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# [schmarty] it reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime
# Loqi Revolv is a home automation hub that receives automatic software updates, acquired by Google, and shutting down 2016-05-15, including a software update that bricks all existing Revolv devices https://indieweb.org/Revolv
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "device-deaths" yet. Would you like to create it?
# tantek device-deaths are like [[site-deaths]], except of physical devices made useless by their manufacturer or otherwise dependent service either explicitly shutting them down (bricking) or become inoperable to the site-death of said service. For example: 2016-05-15 [[Revolv]], 2016-12-31 [[Basis B1]] watch (https://twitter.com/grapealope/status/790668650814513152).
# @grapealope Nooo! @mybasis shutting down service for their B1 watch, one of my favorite wearables. Another orphaned hardware de… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/790668650814513152 (twitter.com/_/status/790668650814513152)
# [schmarty] tl;dr version of E-prime is something like: all the forms of "to be" have distinct functions that tend to run together and lead to misunderstanding and conflict. my takeaway is that saying something "is" something leads to confusion.
# fiatjaf so no one wants it? https://webvatar.com/
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# @t @caseorganic good suggestion. Started http://indieweb.org/device-deaths with @revolv and @mybasis Basis B1 as examples. (ttk.me t4jy2) (twitter.com/_/status/790677056342241280)
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# [schmarty] tantek: haha, it feels pretty bleak. my takeaway from it is that trying to distinctly label things becomes a messy business.
# [schmarty] tantek - fair point! language evolves as practices evolve. in this case i think of it as one of many ways to view the question "does checkin need an h-checkin?" before making a choice. :}
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# tantek that's a specific instance of the "do we need a new microformat" question for which there's some analysis here: http://microformats.org/wiki/process
# [schmarty] haha, excellent!
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# [kevinmarks] Is there a difference between a prospective checkin and an event? Dodgeball or old foursquare style "I'm going to 21st amendment soon"
# gRegorLove What is h-as-*?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "h-as-*" yet. Would you like to create it?
# gRegorLove What is h-as?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "h-as" yet. Would you like to create it?
# gRegorLove What is webvatar?
# Loqi Webvatar is a service that provides direct URLs for <img> tags when you have the domain, or website address, of the user https://indieweb.org/webvatar
# gRegorLove Last I recall, shaners was looking for anyone interested in taking up the h-card-as-a-service tool he started. Haven't seen anyone take him up on it yet.
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# gRegorLove misses search on the chat logs
# gRegorLove cweiske had a search but I can't seem to find it
# tantek jonnybarnes: could you add your CB and Bs posts as examples in a new section here for yourself? https://indieweb.org/location#IndieWeb_Examples
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# jonnybarnes tantek: that okay on /location ?
# Loqi OpenStreetMap is "a free, editable map of the whole world that is being built by volunteers largely from scratch and released with an open-content license" https://indieweb.org/OpenStreetMap
# jonnybarnes can we add now? there may be the odd note here or there
# jonnybarnes but its only recently ive got the code working decently
# tantek jonnybarnes - sure. e.g. if https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/Bs is your earliest you know of, then note that 2016-10-06 as when you started posting the
# KartikPrabhu what happened there ^
# KartikPrabhu oh! I thought Loqi messed up on jonnybarnes' reply
# jonnybarnes Loqi just unfurled the URL
# KartikPrabhu yeah i realised that later
# jonnybarnes lol, right, the very first note that ever had location data is https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/F
# jonnybarnes and my current code can still use that notes data
# jonnybarnes I’m quite pleased with that
# jonnybarnes tantek add first use dates to /location
# jonnybarnes s/add/added
# jonnybarnes isn’t Loqi meant to edit the last line?
# tantek jonnybarnes - if there are any other post types that you support (besides "note") as listed here: https://indieweb.org/posts#Kinds_of_Posts - click on their page and add yourself to their "IndieWeb Examples" sections!
# jonnybarnes tantek added notes and articles
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# gRegorLove jonnybarnes: (way late reply) Loqi doesn't have his s/ powers back yet
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