#indieweb 2016-12-25

2016-12-25 UTC
tantek, wolftune, KevinMarks, KevinMarks_, aegibsonme, nitot and begriffs joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich I think #100DaysOfIndieWeb exists just so @tantek could use ? on a wiki page at https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/24/100daysofindieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/812877193206337536)
tantek joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich I think #100DaysOfIndieWeb exists just so @t could use ? on a wiki page at https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/24/100daysofindieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/812877589186375680)
#
tantek !tell ChrisAldrich hey that was aaronpk's idea, see also the Twitter account's logo
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
KevinMarks, wolftune, mlncn, nitot, mlncn_ and ChrisAldrich joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich tantek: I will admit that my original post does have the tag #insidejoke; admittedly aaronpk did the change that added the emoji, but I suspect that you're responsible for the majority of emoji on wiki pages. :)
#
Loqi ChrisAldrich: KartikPrabhu left you a message 6 days, 4 hours ago: your posts keep on automatically refreshing
#
Loqi ChrisAldrich: tantek left you a message 3 days, 23 hours ago: do you have a venue confirmed for next week's HWC LA? https://indieweb.org/events/2016-12-28-homebrew-website-club#Where
#
Loqi ChrisAldrich: [jeremycherfas] left you a message 19 hours, 1 minute ago: When I go to that link to your commitments http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/10/my-indieweb-commitment-2017/ the page endlessly loops from white to content to white to content. Is it supposed to do that?
#
Loqi ChrisAldrich: tantek left you a message 41 minutes ago: hey that was aaronpk's idea, see also the Twitter account's logo
miklb_ joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich !tell KartikPrabhu Thanks for the note; I've noticed it myself and am attempting to track down the culprit (hoping it's not an upgrade issue for some changes I've made recently...)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek good evening chrisaldrich!
#
tantek yes I think you're right about being emojisponsible ;)
#
KartikPrabhu got it
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu: Sebsel left you a message 18 hours, 58 minutes ago: I saw your commitment about developing a mf2 for bibliography at https://indieweb.org/2017-01-01-commitments#Kartik_Prabhu Isn't h-cite for that? http://microformats.org/wiki/h-cite
#
tantek indeed
#
tantek chrisaldrich: any chance of HWC LA on the 28th?
#
KartikPrabhu sebsel: h-cite does not have properties to markup DOI, and separate versions like journal published version and prepreint version etc...
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: there by dragons
#
KartikPrabhu I know
#
tantek many have tried to come up with citation markup for that kind of stuff in the past, and get trapped in crazy ratholes
#
KartikPrabhu well I couldn't find any prior-art in mf2
#
KartikPrabhu or any reason why it is bad etc...
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: there's plenty of prior art before mf2, the syntax is not the issue
#
KartikPrabhu yeah then those I know because I use them all the time
#
tantek this was attempted with classic microformats and ended up with crazy complexity with too many edge cases etc.
#
KartikPrabhu bibtex for rxample
#
tantek this is the prior art http://microformats.org/wiki/citation
#
Loqi Citation microformat efforts
#
tantek and if you want to look at previous brainstorming efforts, see http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming
#
Loqi Citation Brainstorming
#
ChrisAldrich tantek, yes we'll definitely have an HWC, just waiting to hear a confirmation on one of two locations
#
tantek chrisaldrich: great!
#
tantek assuming aaronpk gets a PDX location nailed down, then we'll have a full West Coast sweep :)
#
ChrisAldrich I had meant to have it all locked down yesterday, but prep for holiday dinners has overcooked me.
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: yes, I know those pages too
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: then you can see all the older proposals from here downward on that page: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#A_Prescriptive_Proposal
#
Loqi Citation Brainstorming
#
tantek all kinds of crazy properties proposed that basically no one had real world examples of
#
tantek just trying to make some sort of uber-compat citation format across bibtex and all the other crazy over designed pre-web formats
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: here's another http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-strawman-00
#
Loqi citation-strawman-00
#
tantek and http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-strawman-01
#
Loqi citation-strawman-01
#
KartikPrabhu so basically there was brainstorming but no one used it
#
tantek because all the brainstorming was massively overdesigned
#
tantek in an attempt to solve all the things, or even just a lot of the things
#
tantek or seem like sufficient alternatives to bibtex etc.
#
KartikPrabhu well bibtex is widely used so...
#
tantek and yeah, no one used it is the consumate problem of such typically overdesigned things
#
tantek not on the web
#
KartikPrabhu no but otherwise it is. Seems like the Web is laging
#
tantek the web tends to be lazy
#
KartikPrabhu in fact the Web is laging way behind in terms of anything for science publishing
#
tantek whereas other fields / communities can be small enough to force a default solution by fiat / monolithic tools etc.
#
tantek s/laging/lagging
#
KartikPrabhu yeah that's the spelling :P
#
KartikPrabhu and the reason seems to be the catch-22 of 1. no one publishes this feature so why should we consume it and 2. no one comsumes this feature so why should be publish it
#
KartikPrabhu e.g. MathML
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: except with MathML, Firefox supported it, and even that wasn't enough to get scientists to bother
#
KartikPrabhu yeah because only FF supports it
#
tantek no that's not good enough of an excuse
#
KartikPrabhu whereas there are many journals who use Javascript shims to display math
#
tantek because small communities can often recommend "use this specific browser with this standards support"
#
tantek you're right about one thing, without a specific practical known "consuming" use-case, it's not worth marking something up
#
KartikPrabhu yeah good luck with browsers listening to MathML support, it is not as "cool" as the (also overengineered IMO) <picture>
#
tantek except even <picture> does not have that much publishing support
#
tantek I pretty much never see it in my typical view-source sleuthing
#
KartikPrabhu yes, but most browsers support it
#
tantek it's a lot less work than mathml
#
tantek no really
#
KartikPrabhu writing a picture element is so mcuh complicated
#
tantek browser support
#
tantek mathml is arbitrarily complicated, much more so than picture has potential to be complicated
#
KartikPrabhu well I guess browsers should just parse Latex then
#
tantek or someone will disrupt math writing itself and simplify it for better computer representation
#
KartikPrabhu lol!
#
KartikPrabhu good luck with that
#
tantek mathematicians like simplifying things, someone will come up with simplified writing for math
#
KartikPrabhu writing math is simple. writing it in software is the problem
#
KartikPrabhu there is no incentive for mathematicians to get into simplifying math software
#
KartikPrabhu also scientists don't like to change habits unnecessarily
#
KartikPrabhu scientists are not going to ditch latx and start leanirng HTML for no reason
#
KartikPrabhu even areas where not a lot of math is written simply use .doc or .docx formats still
#
aaronpk I will post the location tomorrow, but I'm going to do a birthday edition of HWC since Wednesday is my birthday! It will definitely be more birthday than homebrew Website Club
#
Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 day, 8 hours ago: could you confirm a venue for a HWC PDX on the 28th? There should be one (last of 2016)! At least for all the awesome demos of 2017-01-01-commitments and 100daysofindieweb that you and others have gotten working so far! https://indieweb.org/events/2016-12-28-homebrew-website-club#Where
#
tantek aaronpk: oh hey! last year HWC was on my birthday! https://indieweb.org/events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: having grown up with math and taken plenty of advanced math (and learned all that crazy syntax for writing it with tons of extra / greek letters etc.), and since then having learned how lots of writing / encoding can be simplified, I definitely concluded math writing is one big giant messy hack
#
tantek that just kept getting patched because no one wanted to simplify it
#
tantek hmm mayb that is more #indiechat material
#
tantek what is a birthday?
#
Loqi A birthday is the date when someone is born, however in the context of the indieweb, it is a feature displayed on some silos' user profiles that you can (or must) enter, and some prominently present to your friends on the month and day of your birthday, like Facebook's "BIRTHDAYS THIS WEEK" feature at the top of their events page https://indieweb.org/birthday
#
tantek I sense a topical feature for aaronpk for /100daysofindieweb for the 28th ;)
miklb, nitot and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Latex to svg seems reasonable for maths
leg joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: sure, but it is a hack to get math on the web, just like tables for layout
#
tantek I think I just found the Instagram character caption limit
#
tantek let's see if it posts
nitot joined the channel
#
tantek yup
#
tantek 2200
#
tantek I'll just write the rest of the "caption" on my own site :)
KevinMarks, nitot and wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek hmm, trying to use Bridgy to re-enable publishing to FB takes me to https://www.facebook.com/common/invalid_request.php after logging in
#
tantek (backfeed seems to be connected)
#
tantek ooh and just got a "Error: Server Error / The server encountered an error and could not complete your request. / Please try again in 30 seconds."
#
tantek (from Bridgy)
#
tantek trying again manually
wolftune, KevinMarks, pindonga, tantek, nitot and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
nitot joined the channel
#
tantek Goodnight Zegnat :)
#
Loqi buenas noches
catsup, gkbrk and nitot joined the channel
#
sknebel good "morning" Zegnat!
pindonga, Pierre-O, nitot, Bluebell_, ricardokirkner, mlncn_, Yilmaz_Erkan, leg, tantek and snarfed joined the channel
#
@artlung @Lollardfish worthy experiment. and great cogent piece on problematic RNC statement! I'm all in #indieweb but @Medium more transmissible(?) (twitter.com/_/status/813084506294861826)
KevinMarks, Rev_Illo, wolftune, awolf, mlncn_ and nikivi joined the channel
#
aaronpk another benefit of self-hosting media is you get to control the compression quality. I'm noticing that facebook and twitter both compress the heck out of my music and it sounds pretty terrible in some cases
Lana and awolf joined the channel
#
Zegnat aaronpk, if I may suggest a place to manually POSSE your music to: http://music.metafilter.com/ . I love finding short songs on there
friedcell joined the channel
#
@loopdouble Been working on my #indieweb home page, https://t.co/vULTQwxKVi. Back to using hexo (node.js). Spruced it up with a nice theme. #xmas (twitter.com/_/status/813141318763446273)
#
@h0h0h0 @loopdouble what's indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/813142590652641285)
Rev_Illo_ joined the channel
#
@loopdouble @h0h0h0 https://t.co/lJJPbhWZ7d, own your own content, avoid big silos, bit like the rebel alliance but for websites. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/813151033715204096)
KartikPrabhu, mlncn_, friedcell1, John_Duh, friedcell, KevinMarks and tantek joined the channel
#
marinintim rebel alliance but for websites has anice ring to it
#
tantek rebel alliance of websites :)
friedcell1, awolf and KevinMarks joined the channel