#indieweb 2017-01-18

2017-01-18 UTC
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[keithjgrant] Yeah, agreed. Filtering only makes sense on the subscriber's end
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@kevinmarks @ringmaster so you can mark up a like, repost, comment, RSVP etc on the post that sends the webmention - see https://indieweb.org/posts%23Kinds_of_Posts (twitter.com/_/status/821517355465355264)
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KevinMarks Sounds like the twitter Android app I cloned and used for a while
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GWG Evening all
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club San Francisco 2017-01-25" by Kevin Marks on 2017-01-18 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-2017-01-25
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GWG Hello, snarfed
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snarfed hi!
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GWG snarfed, I have been working on my workflow.
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GWG I connected Micropub to Bridgy, now I am breaking it.
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snarfed lol
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GWG snarfed, I decided I would save some meta keys by storing my data in mf2_syndicate-to
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GWG The problem is the UID
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GWG I am still worried about the uniqueness
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snarfed ideally use the silo profile url, or similar, instead of trying to generate a uid, right?
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GWG Well, that means that I am locking myself into having only one Twitter plugin.
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snarfed ok, add a plugin id prefix :P
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GWG snarfed, that is what I was thinking, plugin slug + service
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snarfed s/service/profile url/, or at least service + username, then yes
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Loqi [indieweb] "Jeremy, Like you, I had some of the same issues and questions when I first started. I'd had a primary website for a while that" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-01-18 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/jeremy-like-you-i-had-some-of-the-same-issues
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Loqi [indieweb] "Love your blog post! (And love it is indieweb ;) )" by Pierre Ozoux on 2017-01-16 https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2017/love-your-blog-post-and-love-it-is-indieweb
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
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sebsel Morning ^^
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Loqi sebsel: KevinMarks left you a message 9 hours, 36 minutes ago: unmung.com does atom/rss to h-feed
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sebsel KevinMarks that's nice! it feels wrong to add a Twitter to Atom to a Atom to h-feed, and then parse the HTML for Microformats and store it in jf2 :/
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sebsel but I will keep in mind, thanks!
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[jeremycherfas] keithjgrant Have you looked at Newsblur reader? The ability to train feeds works well for me. Or do you mean specifically feeds from Twitter, FB etc?
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, when I tried Newsblur back when Google Reader was shut down I didn't think the training worked well. See https://getsatisfaction.com/newsblur/topics/this_post_is_marked_green_but_i_only_see_red and https://getsatisfaction.com/newsblur/topics/intelligence_trainer_not_very_intelligent . Has it gotten better at that, or is it still that
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Zegnat any 1 postivie (green) match outweighs any amount of negative (red) matches on a post?
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@jonas_jeub #indieweb @jonas_jeub: Sun is shining (twitter.com/_/status/821667620336365568)
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[jeremycherfas] I’ll check next time I look at my feeds, but that wasn’t something I had come across.
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petermolnar is there a way in the micropub endpoint to push all existing tags to the client to choose from?
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[keithjgrant] jeremycherfas I mainly had Twitter and/or microposts in mind. But I'm still learning how that works... What sort of thing do folks use to follow microposts, and is it different than a reader for long articles?
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sebsel hm maybe I should make separate streams for different post-types in my reader
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sebsel in theory, one can subscribe to https://seblog.nl/likes and that would show up very strange in a reader made for long articles
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sebsel so yeah, a good /reader probably makes distinctions :)
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Zegnat I don't know of anyone using multiple different readers though (e.g. a reader just for notes)
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sebsel that seems inconvenient to me, but silo's are already working a bit like that
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sebsel Insta for photo's, Twitter for short, etc
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sebsel what is Micropub extensions?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions
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sebsel petermolnar ^^^ that's where the tag thingy should go, as a Query, I think
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sebsel I believe the page has a brainstorm status so we can add it?
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sebsel oh wow
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sebsel what is category?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "category" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel what is tag?
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Loqi tags or tagging refers to categorizing or labeling content, your own or others (tag-reply), with words, phrases, names, or other information, optionally linked to specific people, events, locations, such as the practice of tagging posts being about certain people (person-tag), like tagging people or other items where (area-tag) they're depicted in a photo https://indieweb.org/tag
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sebsel category is [[tag]]
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Loqi ok
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[jeremycherfas] keithjgrant You can subscribe to individual Twitter users in Newsblur, though that is hardly efficient. I’m not sure what other people use. I think manton’s micro.blog may allow you to follow your own Twitter stream.
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sebsel [jeremycherfas] oh, reading Twitter on micro.blog, do you have a source on that?
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sebsel I believe it's mostly syndicating post to twitter... not actually reading others.
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sebsel I can't find that
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[keithjgrant] It would make sense to me for a reader to present two different views (say, two tabs), one for long-form content, another for short. Then it could simply be a UI concern
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sebsel there is 'Browse posts from friends, powered by RSS and indie microblogs.' on the about-page, so it's probably possible to link it in a way
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sebsel [keithjgrant] UI is important! Especially for a reader, which is a lot of UI
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[keithjgrant] It sure is -- I’m a CSS guy :)
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sknebel in inoreader I can at least have different presentation styles for different feeds
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sknebel normal (article-heavy) rss feeds I have set to the traditional "headline-only" mode, expanding only on selection. microblogs I have in a style that expands the article immediatly
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sknebel (still wasting quite a bit of space, since they are generous with whitespace and controls around the posts, but I can just scroll through)
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sebsel that sounds nice
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sebsel what is inoreader?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "inoreader" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel what is feedly?
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Loqi feedly is a server-based feed aggregator and reader https://indieweb.org/feedly
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sebsel sknebel does that dfn also work for inoreader?
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sknebel Inoreader is https://www.inoreader.com/, a [[feed reader]] service.
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Loqi ok
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sebsel yaay!
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voxpelli petermolnar: pushing _all_ existing categories to the client sounds unfeasible? would probably need to be a specific ?q=categories that returns a paginated list and which maybe can support some additional param for some kind of autocomplete/search
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petermolnar maybe, but even with a few hundred keywords it really shouldn't be that big of a stress, considering the size of js libraries these days
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Zegnat You could always add a &limit=0 or something, to support getting all in one request, and use &limit=10&offset=20 to get what would be "page 3" with 10 per page.
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[jeremycherfas] What is inoreader
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Loqi Inoreader is https://www.inoreader.com/, a feed reader service https://indieweb.org/Inoreader
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[jeremycherfas] What is inoreader?
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Loqi Inoreader is https://www.inoreader.com/, a feed reader service https://indieweb.org/Inoreader
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[manton] jeremycherfas sebsel To clarify, there won't be a way to read your Twitter stream on Micro.blog. I think people would love that, but I'm not comfortable with that kind of dependency on another platform except for cross-posts (which are easy to route around with other tools if Twitter shuts it off). Also, mixing tweets and non-tweets in the same timeline is against Twitter's dev guidelines, sadly.
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[jeremycherfas] Thanks manton. My mistake. Apologies keithjgrant
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[manton] jeremycherfas Oh, no problem, I left some of this too vague and still need to fill in more documentation.
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[keithjgrant] manton My personal opinion: I would promote it less as “a new Social network” (initially sounds like another silo) and more as connecting with the entire internet as one big social network -- though maybe that only appeals to me b/c I've wanted that for so long
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[keithjgrant] ...But I recognize that selling it is as tough a problem as doing it ;)
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[manton] keithjgrant Great point, thank you. I've found it tricky to describe, because it's a few things together. I'll keep working on that. I have some other text (which I cut when simplifying to link to Kickstarter) that kind of echoed that: that it's about helping glue other web sites together and making them more useful.
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KevinMarks_ Sounds like friendfeed reborn
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snarfed !tell jeremycherfas keithjgrant: just fyi if you haven't already seen it, https://twitter-atom.appspot.com/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk petermolnar: the tags thing is interesting. i was actually considering adding tag autocomplete to Quill now that I have a nicer tag interface in it
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petermolnar it could be pushed in the config request
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petermolnar but as noted above, too excessive amount of them could be problematic
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petermolnar a few hundred shouldn't really be an issue imho
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aaronpk i wonder how many i have on my site
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aaronpk i was first considering quill just keeping track of which tags are used within the quill interface and autocompleting from that. but querying your site to get the list would be interesting too
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petermolnar I apparently have 773
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petermolnar mostly due to flickr-friendly photo tags
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aaronpk i have 2485
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aaronpk that's only 20kb
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cweiske i've got 80
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aaronpk which is less than many JS libraries, so...
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aaronpk the other way to do it is to query the way an autocomplete library would query, so you'd ask for all tags beginning with "i" and then all tags with "in" as the person is typing "indieweb"
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petermolnar 20kb is nothing
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sebsel I have 632.
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sebsel also mostly Twitter hashtags
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aaronpk the trick with suggesting tags to autocomplete is that I'd want them ranked by both frequency and recency
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cweiske so "?q=category&search=foo" is needed
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cweiske then the endpoint can return results ranked
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petermolnar this is exactly what I wanted to write
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aaronpk i think that'd work
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petermolnar or pass weight with them
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petermolnar but that complicates things
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cweiske no, that weight is implementation specific
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cweiske it should return them pre-sorted
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aaronpk i'm looking at how this library handles it https://github.com/twitter/typeahead.js/blob/master/doc/bloodhound.md
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cweiske that buggy lib
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aaronpk is it? I just found it. it was used as an example on the tokenfield library i'm using http://sliptree.github.io/bootstrap-tokenfield/
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cweiske nearly 300 open issues
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cweiske and no activity at all
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cweiske 2 years ago last one
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aaronpk strange
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cweiske we had issues with it in a project last year
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aaronpk here's another one that looks good http://www.runningcoder.org/jquerytypeahead/demo/
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petermolnar maybe something from here: https://plainjs.com/javascript/search/?q=autocomplete ?
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aaronpk neither of these seem to support the idea of a "weight"
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petermolnar forget weight, just go by sorted list order
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aaronpk same problem tho. they all seem to rank the items by their own implementation's choices
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KevinMarks_ https://leaverou.github.io/awesomplete/
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aaronpk i can't figure out how to combine any of these with the "token field" concept where you can enter multiple tags from the list into the field
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KevinMarks_ I like that one - the kind of attention to detail that Lea does
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KevinMarks_ It supports multiple
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aaronpk oh there we go
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aaronpk http://leaverou.github.io/awesomplete/#advanced-examples
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[jeremycherfas] Oooh. Thanks snarfed
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Loqi [jeremycherfas]: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 9 minutes ago: keithjgrant: just fyi if you haven't already seen it, https://twitter-atom.appspot.com/
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tantek aaronpk: in looking at your /music, it makes me wonder how we do podcasts with h-feed
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aaronpk i actually have a podcast h-feed example!
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tantek since I would expect to be able to "listen" to aaronparecki.com/music and hear a continuous stream of your music
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tantek o rly
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tantek what is a podcast
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Loqi A podcast is an episodic series of audio and/or video posts that can be subscribed to and downloaded for offline listening/viewing https://indieweb.org/podcast
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aaronpk still only one item in the podcast but hey http://transportini.com/
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aaronpk it's just an h-feed with child h-entrys and each h-entry has an "audio" property linking to the podcast file
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cweiske yesterday I ranted about the amount of tech needed to parse h-feeds
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cweiske just imagine that podcatchers on phones need all that stuff
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tantek cweiske: perhaps. the goal is definitely to shift more burden to the consuming code than the publishing code, to make it net easier on more people
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tantek that being said, the insanity of parsing all the legacy RSS soup is just as bad (if not worse) than parsing HTML
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tantek (plenty of documentation of that by feed reader developers of yore)
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cweiske antennapod would double it's .apk size
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure podcasts are a very special case where parsing the RSS feeds aren't as bad, because podcast RSS feeds are a subset of XML feeds and have been more tightly defined over the years compared to Atom/RSS/RSS2.0/etc
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tantek aaronpk: lol depends on which consuming silo's podcast format you want to support :P
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tantek iTunes vs. etc.
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aaronpk well pretty much everyone has settled on itunes
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aaronpk even google parses the itunes tags
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tantek aaronpk: stubbed just for you to document what you're doing: https://indieweb.org/podcast#How_to_podcast_with_h-feed
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tantek and then of course add yourself to the indieweb examples
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tantek I'm a little surprised there's no h-feed podcast of your 100 days of music
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tantek tries a little (more) 100daysofindieweb inception on aaronpk
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tantek since the "just post your food via Alexa" suggestion seemed to work ;)
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aaronpk yeah there's just the feed of videos for them, but not of the audio tracks
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tantek do you POSSE the audio to Soundcloud?
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aaronpk no, but i was considering it
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tantek keeps piling on the 100daysofindieweb ideas ;)
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tantek do you have code to backfeed from Soundcloud likes, comments?
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aaronpk the first step would be just getting the audio track to my main site in the first place. right now only the video goes there
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aaronpk and i haven't decided how to display a post that both a video and audio track where the audio track is the same audio from the video
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tantek mumbles something about fallback
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aaronpk can't hear the mumbling
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tantek <video src=""><audio src="">text description</audio></video>
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aaronpk what...would that do?
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tantek or <object data="..mp4"><object data="..mp3">... text description</object></object>
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tantek if someone disables video on their browser, it should fall back to the audio
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snarfed (soundcloud bridgy feature request: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/587 )
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aaronpk i don't even know how to disable video, is that possible?
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tantek also demonstrates why there really should have been a <media> element so you could do <media><source src="...mp4"/><source src="...mp3"/> </media>
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tantek hmm - posed the question in #whatwg, let's see if anyone remembers
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KevinMarks_ Unmung.com works for podcasts
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fbikeportlandpodcast.anomalily.net%2Fpodcast.xml
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miklb afternoon
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aaronpk huh, turning off "media.navigator.video.enabled" in firefox didn't stop the video tag from loading
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tantek huh
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martymcguire[m] i marked up my little comedy podcast at wehavetoask.com based on the examples on /podcast and have been happy with it. woodwind displays the audio player correctly (when it is inside of e-content).
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martymcguire[m] added to /podcast#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek aaronpk, try <video controls="controls" src="...mp3" poster="...jpg">...</video> where the poster is your "album art" for the song
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tantek is HTML markup too dev-like, or worth keeping in #indieweb?
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martymcguire[m] it might fall under the "if you have to ask..." rule.
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tantek martymcguire[m]: I keep forgetting if that rule is yes or no ;)
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aaronpk chrome and firefox both don't like an mp3 file as the source of the video tag
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tantek aaronpk it works! see: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=4816 (via zcorpan from #whatwg)
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tantek just tried it in Firefox
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tantek :)
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tantek start with the working example, and tweak as needed for your content :)
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aaronpk oh i see... it has to actually be the src attribute on the video tag, not a <source> element in the video tag
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aaronpk i still can't get the video tag disabled though. what browsers support the <audio> tag that don't support the <video> tag?
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tantek interesting! it shouldn't have to be
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tantek however, publish it that way (with the src attr on the video tag)
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tantek aaronpk: likely none (support audio but not video)
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tantek anyway, publish it with src attr on video like that
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aaronpk so then <audio> is not a good fallback for a missing <video> tag
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tantek apparently not
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aaronpk s/tag/support
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tantek and the file a bug for it *not* working
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tantek for <video><source src="">
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tantek because that doesn't make any sense that it wouldn't work just because of different syntax
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aaronpk okay
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aaronpk also the setting in about:config does not appear to disable the video tag support
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aaronpk oh it was my mistake about the <source> tag not working. it's fine
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aaronpk also that hixie tool is great
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tantek oh great!
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KevinMarks Fallback doesn't work the way you'd expect with video and audio. If the browser can't play the file it shows a useless controller.
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aaronpk oh yeah. that's a different kind of fallback problem tho
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aaronpk i'm just talking about not supporting the <video> tag at all
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aaronpk i still think it's pretty funny that I can't post just audio to facebook or twitter
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aaronpk that's the only reason i've been making videos for these songs
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tantek Silo video killed the audio post
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tantek (someone had to say it)
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KevinMarks Known posses to soundcloud
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tantek Who else shows "likes" on their posts besides benwerd, kylewm, aaronpk? https://indieweb.org/likes#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek E.g. GWG, you show likes on your posts right?
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tantek add yourself (and how you do it, e.g. your WordPress plugins) to https://indieweb.org/likes#IndieWeb_Examples !
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aaronpk well this quickly turned into my 100days project
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aaronpk thanks tantek
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tantek anytime :D
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voxpelli tantek: everyone using my modern embed, so me + KevinMarks at least (showing likes in realtime)
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tantek voxpelli - as such, that counts as one implementation, even if multiple sites
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voxpelli is at the phone so no wiki-editing now
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Zegnat sebsel has likes on his posts
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tantek voxpelli, reposts also right? https://indieweb.org/reposts#IndieWeb_Examples
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voxpelli tantek: yes!
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sebsel I use (a modified version of) the Webmentions plugin of Bastian Allgeier... so he has like too
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tantek !tell benwerd, kevinmarks, snarfed, kylewm, voxpelli, sebsel you show # of reposts (or a facepile or some other display) of your posts on your posts right? Add yourself, site, and implementation here: https://indieweb.org/reposts#IndieWeb_Examples
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bear https://slackhq.com/threaded-messaging-comes-to-slack-417ffba054bd#.gy7ogv6js
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bear https://slackhq.com/threaded-messaging-comes-to-slack-417ffba054bd
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sebsel I do! Will add
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Loqi sebsel: tantek left you a message 11 minutes ago: you show # of reposts (or a facepile or some other display) of your posts on your posts right? Add yourself, site, and implementation here: https://indieweb.org/reposts#IndieWeb_Examples
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sebsel what is facepile?
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Loqi The Facepile is a design element popularized by Facebook https://indieweb.org/facepile
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sebsel :)
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tantek sigh that's not a useful definition!
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[keithjgrant] Does webmention.io support likes and reshares, or just comments?
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aaronpk it does. that's how likes get to my site
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tantek what is a reshare?
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indieweb.org/reshare
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@100daysindieweb Day 29: Better Media Support in p3k #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/01/18/7/day29-p3k-media-support (twitter.com/_/status/821811204813307912)
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aaronpk now that i actually display the full repost content I think I will be much more likely to repost things
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KevinMarks it's TWiG time
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 46 minutes ago: you show # of reposts (or a facepile or some other display) of your posts on your posts right? Add yourself, site, and implementation here: https://indieweb.org/reposts#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk talk about manton's micro.blog?
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KevinMarks I do it via webmention.herokuapp.com, yes
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KevinMarks OK, but wiht app.net shutting down Leo may well mock it
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aaronpk then explain how it's different?
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aaronpk as in, actually trying to participate in web conversations rather than just being its own service
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voxpelli yeah, one dodges Metcalfe's law, the other ran into it full on and knocked itself out
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Loqi voxpelli: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 57 minutes ago: you show # of reposts (or a facepile or some other display) of your posts on your posts right? Add yourself, site, and implementation here: https://indieweb.org/reposts#IndieWeb_Examples
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voxpelli is all done wikifying that
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KevinMarks https://indieweb.org/ still has cambridge as upcomming -want to put the german ones there
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KevinMarks micro.blog webmention rec, any other news?
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KevinMarks moz logo?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replying to indieweb post - test Wgebmention" by Darius Dunlap on 2015-12-03 https://darius.withknown.com/2015/replying-to-indieweb-post---test-wgebmention
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@barryf Really happy to see that #webmention is now a W3C recommendation. ? @aaronpk and all @indiewebcamp implementers. https://twitter.com/w3c/status/819624363645353985 (twitter.com/_/status/821839541677879296)
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@calum_ryan ? Homebrew Website Club London Jan 25th 18:00 https://calumryan.com/event/hwc-20170125/ https://indieweb.org/events/2017-01-25-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/821845710945579010)
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Guest99092 hey guys
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Guest99092 Allah is doing
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Guest99092 sun is not doing allah is doing
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Guest99092 to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
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KartikPrabhu off-topic by light-years
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KevinMarks do you have a website, guest9902
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: already kicked out
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sknebel oh, now they have come over here? fast reaction, normally the script has 20 lines more ...
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KevinMarks app store problems: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/technology/clearing-out-the-app-stores-government-censorship-made-easier.html?_r=0
aegibsonme, wolftune, CaptainCalliope_, M-hotzeplotz, mlncn, ricardokirkner, userXYZ, nitot, snarfed and tantek joined the channel