#indieweb 2017-02-15

2017-02-15 UTC
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colintedford !tell [eddie], eddie Skein uses node https://indieweb.org/Skein
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[acegiak_net] morning all!
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aaronpk time is confusing
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[acegiak_net] yup
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GWG [acegiak_net]: Greetings, friend acegiak
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[acegiak_net] oh I use the standard "morning when you enter for the day, evening when you leave for the day"
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[acegiak_net] it has a name I don't remember
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[acegiak_net] but it's nearly midday here
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aaronpk what is UGT?
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Loqi Universal Greeting Time is the convention of greeting people in online chat with "good morning" regardless of the local time of day of either person https://indieweb.org/UGT
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[acegiak_net] there we go
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[acegiak_net] how are you GWG?
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GWG [acegiak_net]: Trying to clean up my parsing code still. I had a hopeful comment from some WordPress core developers about it
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GWG I had a proposal in to separate out the parsing code from the Press This component of WordPress, which was endorsed by a few people. One of the ideas involved using it to generate better linkback displays, the other was to enhance the oembed system for non-oembed enabled sites.
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GWG So, I figured I'd have the code cleaner and reader
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[acegiak_net] definitely
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[acegiak_net] I was working on a simpler posting form for several types of content to use on my mobile but I've put that on the backburner cause it just wasn't working for me
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GWG acegiak, I had the idea of a parser as an endpoint that different plugins could query
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GWG acegiak, I tried that, but tabled it.
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[acegiak_net] I was just thinking "it would be nice to have a pacifica like UI for entering mood posts
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[acegiak_net] but now I'm just focusing on making my bot better at parsing the conversational responses I give it
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GWG acegiak, so, I can talk to when you aren't here?
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[acegiak_net] was thinking about having it so that if I don't provide a manual numerical value it looks up if I've used the same string to describe my mood previously and average out my manual entries for those times for the numerical value this time
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GWG Good luck
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Loqi [indieweb] "#indieweb Homebrew Website Club meetup. The graph behind us is Let's Encrypt installations." by Kevin Marks on 2017-02-09 http://werd.io/2017/indieweb-homebrew-website-club-meetup-the-graph-behind-us-is
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Loqi [indieweb] "does the t.co redirector make this kind of attack easier? https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/02/de-anonymizing_1.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-02-10 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/does-the-tco-redirector-make-this-kind-of-attack-easier
nitot, snarfed, KevinMarks_, camerongray, anarchivist_, minsky-, bttf_, anglophilic, catsup_, rpcope-, singpolyma, cjk101010, alphi, Jeena, jcgregorio[m], leg, [kevinmarks], EHLOVader and [eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie] !tell @colintedford Thanks! I’ll take a look
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Loqi [eddie]: colintedford left you a message 3 hours, 54 minutes ago: Skein uses node https://indieweb.org/Skein
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aaronpk martymcguire[m]: i just noticed your event pages! they're really great!
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@100daysindieweb Day 56: Added a Reset Login Button to Quill #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/14/22/day-56-quill (twitter.com/_/status/831732743465738240)
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jeremycherfas Morning.
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Loqi *yawn*
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petermolnar sebsel your rss is now looking rss in firefox, good job
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cweiske what is now looking rss?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "now looking rss" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel petermolnar what? I did not change a thing! :S
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petermolnar interesting
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petermolnar it's fine now
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sebsel oh well that's good I guess. Let me know if it turns bad again
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petermolnar sidenote for our stunned expression when realized WP backported security even to 3.x: automatic updates were introduced in 2.7, so I wouldn't be surprised if security patches would be backported to that point.
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jeremycherfas What is a syndication endpoint
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "syndication endpoint" yet. Would you like to create it?
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jeremycherfas What is endpoint
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "endpoint" yet. Would you like to create it?
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@sl007 @joelpurra Pushing to git ASAP here http://github.com/redaktor/ - next DUS || Nürnberg https://indieweb.org/events + https://sebastiangreger.net/2017/02/homebrew-website-club-berlin-first-meeting-8-feb-2017/ (twitter.com/_/status/831838887794376705)
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@officialbttn Aaron Parecki, co-founder of IndieWebCamp is talking about bttn #API and how easily it can connect to your #server.… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831864670407553024 (twitter.com/_/status/831864670407553024)
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sebsel lol, no, he bookmarked and quoted your own site
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk what do you think that screenshot is from?
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cweiske 70$ + 2$/month for a simple button...
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cweiske brave new world
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aaronpk well the reason i bookmarked that one in particular is because it can talk directly to your server without their api and subscription
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cweiske oh
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cweiske that'd be cool indeed
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aaronpk still $70 but it's on the right track
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sknebel what is todo?
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Loqi Next steps for IndieWebCamp and IndieWeb efforts https://indieweb.org/todo
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martymcguire[m] aaronpk++ thanks for the quill reset button!
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Loqi aaronpk has 467 karma in this channel (1213 overall)
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martymcguire[m] And thanks for checking out my event pages! I am proud of them, haha.
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Loqi nice
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Loqi [indieweb] "Ownership vs. Ownership" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-15 http://boffosocko.com/2017/02/15/ownership-vs-ownership/
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@ChrisAldrich Want to take "own your data" to the highest level? 10centuries sounds like an interesting project. #indieweb http://boffosocko.com/2017/02/15/ownership-vs-ownership/ (twitter.com/_/status/831927889717317637)
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aaronpk that's a good post, but I disagree with the premise of "If a person truly wants to own their content, they cannot rely on Amazon, RackSpace, Linode, or any other corporate provider to host their information."
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tantek yeah that seems like faulty conclusion
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voxpelli yeah, same here, important is to own the content itself and the address to that content, then one is free to move to whatever place one wants, whenever one wants – that's true ownership
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aaronpk voxpelli++ well said
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Loqi voxpelli has 91 karma in this channel (102 overall)
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dgold 10C's auth procedure looks bridgy-able
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dgold https://docs.10centuries.org/auth
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb!
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dgold hmmm, maybe not: https://docs.10centuries.org/blurbs
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gRegorLove What is 10C?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "10C" yet. Would you like to create it?
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dgold "The post.micro type is used for posts without a title and less than or equal to 140 bytes in length.
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dgold "The post.short type is used for posts without a title and less than or equal to 1,024 bytes in length."
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gRegorLove What is 10Centuries?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "10Centuries" yet. Would you like to create it?
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dgold what is 10Centuries
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Loqi 10 Centuries(10C) is a blogging/microposting silo, similar in scope and intent to ADN, for posting notes(blurbs) of up to 1,024 bytes, and longer-form articles(blog-posts) up to 8,192 bytes https://indieweb.org/10Centuries
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sgreger hello indieweb
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sgreger tantek, are you still up for attending HWC Berlin next Wed?
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gRegorLove dgold: Do you use 10Centuries?
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tantek sgreger maybe! I hope to do so - here's my info: https://www.w3.org/wiki/AB/2017-02-BER#Participants
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dgold gRegorLove: I have an account there - just watching it grow at the moment
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tantek I know Berlin is pretty big and there's lots of transport options, but I hope to figure it out
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tantek would be interesting to track the growth (and peak / decline) of these little mini silos that keep popping up
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tantek like Ello, which I presume is shrinking at this point (based on people not talking about it)
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tantek what is Ello?
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Loqi Ello is microblogging silo similar to Twitter or Tumblr for posting short status update notes and pictures https://indieweb.org/Ello
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[jeremycherfas] I use 10C and so does dgold. I can say a bit more about it but not tonight. And I can try to get @matigo Who made it onboard here.
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dgold gRegorLove: I have invite codes if you'd like one
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aaronpk is it a silo? i thought it was just a blog host
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sgreger it would be fun if you can make it! we are still lacking a location, but hoping to figure that out this week
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dgold aaronpk: no, they have notes - blurbs
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sgreger we'll be happy to provide transport advice if needed :)
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aaronpk is there an opportunity for them to support microformats and webmention and such?
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dgold the API seems pretty straightforward. If I ever work out what snarfed's installation notes for bridgy dev mean, I keep intending to give it a whirl
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dgold aaronpk: I know the lead dev (probably the _only_ dev) was looking at microformats recently
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aaronpk it'd be great if it was able to play nice with sending/receiving webmentions and everything!
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dgold he got a bit confused by the webmention spec - but I think he's open to looking at the issues
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tantek aaronpk how are you differentiating silo vs blog host?
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dgold not confused, that's the wrong word - _frustrated_, perhaps
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tantek wow - first I have heard that - definitely interested to understand what the source of frustration was/is!
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tantek (Webmention is one of the simpler specs out there)
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aaronpk i guess by silo i meant more like twitter, where you reply/like/repost things within the system but not from external things
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aaronpk app.net would fall under that category too for the most part, except they were at least trying to break out of that model somewhat
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aaronpk whereas something like wordpress.com is a place to make a website/blog
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aaronpk and doesn't really have any native concept of communicating with other things on wordpress.com
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gRegorLove dgold: No thanks, just curious if you had first-hand experience with it.
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dgold anyone have an idea how to delete 700 posts from known?
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tantek oh boy
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aaronpk do you have database access? might be easiest to find them there sorted by date added
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dgold yeah, that seems best
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dgold if I canfind the sql passphrase...
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aaronpk it'd be in your config.ini file
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dgold d'oh!
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dgold :)
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tantek directly manipulating a database sounds like a good way to corrupt your data!
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tantek another option: export all your data in some *flat* format
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tantek edit the export to remove those 700 posts
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tantek import the export
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dgold agrees - and had already started the process
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dgold two minutes at the mysql command line was more than enough to send me screaming to the hills
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tantek lol!
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[jeremycherfas] Aaronpk 10C also hosts audio and enables something like private chat rooms, similar to the channels in ADN.
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tantek what's the difference between private chat rooms, and group chat?
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tantek e.g. group txt messages?
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GWG Afternoon
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tantek just barely for some of us :)
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aaronpk private chat rooms between other 10C users? or more broadly?
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GWG tantek, I use relative time. When I come in first..morning, at lunchtime, afternoon, then for the evening, evening
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[jeremycherfas] 10C does have internal likes and reposts, with or without comment. Like ADN.
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aaronpk ah okay, it's sounding more like a silo then
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[kevinmarks] WordPress does have some intra WordPress features - the reader and top posts stuff
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aaronpk oh yeah huh they've been adding stuff like that
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[jeremycherfas] I suspect there isn't much difference, except for the length of the messages.
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[jeremycherfas] Aaronpk among 10C users.
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tantek does 10C allow domain mapping?
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tantek e.g. 10C.example.com
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[jeremycherfas] I would describe it as a silo, yes. It has baked in posse to Twitter and Facebook, if you want it, too. And @matigo is very keen on the idea that your data is yours. Full export any time etc.
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tantek I ask because if they do free domain mapping then it becomes a host of a sort like Tumblr or Blogger
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[jeremycherfas] Tantek you can host your own domain there. I am potp.it there.
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tantek oh!
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tantek that's an important distinction then
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tantek what is 10C?
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Loqi 10 Centuries (10C) is a blogging/microposting silo, similar in scope and intent to App.net, for posting notes of up to 1,024 bytes, and longer-form articles up to 8,192 bytes https://indieweb.org/10C
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tantek jeremycherfas, can you add a "How to host your domain" section to that page ^^^ with a summary or link to their docs?
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tantek that makes 10C much better than a "typical" silo
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tantek and we should call that out as a positive diference
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aaronpk definitely
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tantek jeremycherfas - did you say 10C already supported microformats?
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tantek or was at least looking into Webmention support?
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tantek we can document that too!
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ben_thatmust hmm, seems to still be a bit of lorum ipsum that they can clean up here docs.10centuries.org
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://matigo.ca/2017/02/12/ownership-vs-ownership (from http://boffosocko.com/2017/02/15/ownership-vs-ownership/)
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ben_thatmust https://github.com/redmatrix/hubzilla/issues/644#issuecomment-272655689
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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tantek Zegnat, sebsel, petermolnar any photos from last night's HWC Schiphol?
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tantek https://indieweb.org/events/2017-02-14-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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tantek !tell Jeena HWC Göteborg next week? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell aaronpk HWC PDX next week? Or did you say next week was canceled and going to once a month? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk i haven't confirmed anything yet but strongly considering switching to once a month
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tantek !tell kevinmarks,benwerd HWC SF next week? Are you able to host? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek aaronpk, I'd say today (one week in advance) would be a good day to decide
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aaronpk agreed
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aaronpk it was on my list yeseterday but i didn't get to it
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tantek last week's PDX venue looked great!
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aaronpk yeah definitely
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gRegorLove when is next hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2017-02-14 at Starbucks, Schiphol Plaza (the big one on the side, not the station hall), Schiphol, The Netherlands https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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gRegorLove when is next hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2017-02-22 at Venue: TBD https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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tantek gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 76 karma in this channel (102 overall)
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gRegorLove Does Loqi just take the first venue?
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tantek not sure
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aaronpk thinks he should automate that
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gRegorLove Eek, homepage is out of date on HWCs.
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gRegorLove fixes
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tantek that reminds me, replicating March HWC pages would be good. perhaps waiting for aaronpk to decide on PDX frequency
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gRegorLove ok
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aaronpk okay yeah i'm going to switch to monthly, and am going to see about hosting at dreamhost again next month. will switch to monthly either way though.
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gRegorLove Switching Bellingham to monthly as well
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gRegorLove What frequency is Berlin? It's not on /HWC btw
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tantek good examples good reasons not to have over template/automated stuff with tons of (potentially hard to change) defaults. we keep adapting / changing things each month
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tantek Berlin did (is doing) both HWCs this month
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tantek so that's reasonable to project forward
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[jeremycherfas] Tantek I will add what I can to the wiki in my morning (CET) here.
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tantek thank you jeremycherfas!
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gRegorLove Any updates to /2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club before I use its latest version to create the March events?
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gRegorLove Update the cities under RSVP to match under Where, maybe?
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gRegorLove Eh, alphabetical is still probably good enough there.
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Salt gRegorLove, can you get on a conference call tonight at 7?
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Loqi Salt: gRegorLove left you a message 4 days, 23 hours ago: Any news on Seattle IWC?
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Salt ^ we had to push back the meeting, but it is happening tonight :P
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gRegorLove Sure
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tantek gRegorLove: I'm not sure about the TBD clustering frankly
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tantek moving those around based on TBD-ness seems confusing and more thing that different venue organizers have to worry about
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Salt gRegorLove, cool, details will be set up right around that time on irc
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dgold tantek: what type of content are you looking for on that 10centuries page?
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gRegorLove tantek: Good point. I can group by region.
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tantek dgold, a "How to" section, a "IndieWeb Friendly" section, that kind of thing (some other pages have those sections)
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[dgold] tantek, would hope to add more content tomorrow. Just did the stub earlier to get something up.
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tantek dgold++ definitely! every incremental bit helps!
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Loqi dgold has 2 karma
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tantek !tell sgreger is there an indie event for 2017-02-22 HWC Berlin yet? I want to RSVP "maybe" and was looking for a place to send my RSVP Webmention :D
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove tantek: How does /2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club look?
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tantek looks
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tantek hah! did we need a North Europe? mostly I was regioning by time zone
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tantek gRegorLove: I'd say let's go with the venues in https://indieweb.org/events/2017-02-08-homebrew-website-club#Where as the default set
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tantek !tell adactio any plans for HWC Brighton either 2017-02-22 or 2017-03-08?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek the nice thing about https://indieweb.org/events/2017-02-08-homebrew-website-club#Where is that it's reasonably accurate per experience (in terms of what venues are visible, and which ones are commented out)
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gRegorLove I wasn't sure on north vs west europe
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tantek there wasn't a north before right?
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gRegorLove would the UK need to be a different section then, or close enough on timezone?
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tantek different yes
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tantek per 2017-02-08 clustering
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tantek also an explicit decision
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gRegorLove correct, I added north
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tantek per timezone
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tantek yeah, I'd say no need for north (same timezone), unless we actually get so many cities we have to further subdivide
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gRegorLove updates
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sgreger tantek: no indieweb event, as i believe none of the current core groups' sites support that (yet) ;)
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Loqi sgreger: tantek left you a message 26 minutes ago: is there an indie event for 2017-02-22 HWC Berlin yet? I want to RSVP "maybe" and was looking for a place to send my RSVP Webmention :D
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sgreger but for now the intention is to have berlin bi-weekly, we are just lacking a space for now
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sgreger we had a 125% attendance rate last time (4 sign-ups, 5 present) and everybody agreed it was a great evening
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tantek nice!
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sgreger gRegorLove: i think we'll add it to /HWC once it turns into a regular event (hopefully with a fixed location as well)
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tantek sgreger: add it since it already became a real event!
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tantek you can move it to the "regular" section later if you wish
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gRegorLove sgreger: You can put it under /Homebrew_Website_Club#Getting_Started_or_Need_Restarting, sans venue
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tantek yes that :)
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sgreger tantek, gRegorLove: added!
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tantek sgreger++ yay!
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Loqi sgreger has 7 karma
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Loqi ?
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snarfed dgold: feel free to ping me anytime with q's about bridgy docs, setting up the environment, etc!
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[eddie] !tell ChrisAldrich I’d love to find out more about how you’re doing your Read Status Updates on your site? Originating from Goodreads and then being consumed on the site? Or are you entering it on Wordpress and then pushing it to Goodreads via the API?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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chrisaldrich Eddie: At the moment, I'm posting to WordPress and manually POSSEing to GoodReads to continue to work out kinks
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Loqi chrisaldrich: tantek left you a message 1 week, 5 days ago: perhaps you could add the Archive.org/Wayback Machine support plugin for @WithKnown to a new Known section here after WordPress? https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive#WordPress
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Loqi chrisaldrich: jeremycherfas left you a message 6 days, 11 hours ago: Have you ever done a detailed write up of how you integrate your withknown stream into your WP site?
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Loqi chrisaldrich: [eddie] left you a message 1 minute ago: I’d love to find out more about how you’re doing your Read Status Updates on your site? Originating from Goodreads and then being consumed on the site? Or are you entering it on Wordpress and then pushing it to Goodreads via the API?
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tantek welcome back chrisaldrich !
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tantek what is watch
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Loqi A watch is a semi-passive type of post used to publish that you have watched a video — typically movie, TV show, or other video recordings https://indieweb.org/watch
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chrisaldrich Ultimately I'm considering using something like Micropub and/or piggybacking onto silo.pub to possibly do auto POSSE to Goodreads, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
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chrisaldrich afternoon all, tantek!
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chrisaldrich gRegorLove, do you use Silo.pub for GoodReads?
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tantek chrisaldrich: we're figuring out HWC meetup frequencies / locations for both next week and next month
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tantek PDX is switching to monthly
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tantek what do you think about HWC LA? would it be possible to more consistently do monthly?
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chrisaldrich I've been trying to do a virtual one in the first time slot and an official LA one in the second time slot each month
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chrisaldrich need to finalize a more official location for LA which is about to happen in the next few days hopefully.
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chrisaldrich I'll try to wrap up details for next week and post them before the newsletter Friday.
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chrisaldrich if you're cutting and pasting templates, go ahead without me and I'll update them manually if necessary before the weekend.
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chrisaldrich if I know which side of the month aaronpk is switching to for PDX, we can try to get LA on that same schedule ideally and then fill in the odd "off" week with a virtual version.
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aaronpk i'm shooting for the first wednesday of the month. just waiting on a confirmation now
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tantek wonders what happens when "first wednesday" goes out of phase with "fortnightly"
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chrisaldrich aaronpk, then I'll try to follow suit...
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chrisaldrich was thinking that it would be the first on-cycle wednesday within a month, but knows what tantek is getting at...
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aaronpk may 31st
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aaronpk seemed weird to have two in may
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aaronpk if i'm shooting for one a month
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gRegorLove chrisaldrich: No, I don't publish via micropub yet. I think the Goodreads integration there is only for reviews? I don't post those very often; mainly use goodreads as a to-read list + progress tracking.
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[chrisaldrich] !tell jeremycherfas I haven't written aobut integrating withknown into my WP site, though if it would help you I could. To a great extent, I mostly use Known for quick/short replies and commenting, though there are a few other small integrations like a link in the menu as well as advertising Known's stream RSS feed in my site header.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Increasingly I've been manually posting "want to read" posts on my site, linking to the goodreads status as a u-syndicate
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chrisaldrich thanks gRegorLove, you're the only one I could think off hand who might be using that with GoodReads regularly...
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gRegorLove u-syndication, I mean
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gRegorLove I know kylewm use(d) it for some reviews
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chrisaldrich [eddie] I've beening doing much like gRegorLove, but using GWG's Syndication Links plugin for the u-syndication portion https://wordpress.org/plugins/syndication-links/
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chrisaldrich it is an itch to automate a portion of it, though I'm not discomforted enough by the process to bother with looking into GoodReads' API yet...
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snarfed manualuntilithurts++
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Loqi manualuntilithurts has 2 karma
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GWG Hi there
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[eddie] chrisaldrich: Makes sense. Thanks for the info! I read on a Kindle device, so I use the native Kindle Goodreads progress updates a lot. So while in most areas I would like to POSSE, I’m trying to weight the pros and cons, to PESOS Goodreads. Although I almost always have my phone with me, so it might not be that big of a difference to POSSE if I built an interface for my main site. So good to know what others are doing ?
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[eddie] Right now, I’m pulling Goodreads data in via API to show recently read and currently reading
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[eddie] Although, I haven’t added my progress% yet
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[chrisaldrich] I've also considered building a PESOS integration that pulls data out of my Calibre program (via the GoodReads plugin) and pushes it to WordPress. GoodReads has a built in set up to PESOS reviews to WordPress, but no great set up for quick status updates.
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[chrisaldrich] I don't know if Keyring Social Importer does any GoodReads workflow, but that might be worth looking into as well.
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GWG I haven't gotten to anything like that yet.
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[chrisaldrich] I know jeremycherfas was looking at exporting highlights/notes out of Kindle recently, though not sure how far he's gotten in the last week. I've written about bits on my site since November if you search it for amazon, kindle, reading, and/or indieweb
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[chrisaldrich] Eddie, perhaps writing an add on for Keyring for GoodReads if it doesn't exist might be worthwhile since some of the infrastructure is already there: https://github.com/beaulebens/keyring-social-importers/
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chrisaldrich GWG: a belated happy Valentines Day to you!
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GWG Chrisaldrich, I appreciate the thought. Yesterday, I was meditating on the anniversary of the first photograph taking of a sitting President
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[eddie] I’m actually doing Node.js, I was just curious what you were doing in the Wordpress world ? Right now, i’m custom Node.js but looking into Skein, because that seems to be coming along nicely.
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chrisaldrich I've got a small GoodReads widget on my front page with some quick data, but that plugin might also be a nice inroads for a potential set up path
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chrisaldrich I've not looked into Skein at all, have you GWG?
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GWG Not a bit
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chrisaldrich What is read?
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Loqi To read or reading is the act of viewing and interpreting posts or other documents; on the IndieWeb, a read post expresses that something has been read, like a book or section thereof https://indieweb.org/read
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chrisaldrich Eddie, if you have some time, feel free to write up your brainstorms there ^^^
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[eddie] :thumbsup: Sounds good, will do ?