#indieweb 2017-02-16
2017-02-16 UTC
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@sdepolo Curious what #indieWeb folks think... @kevinMarks @t @benwerd? "We Urgently Need a New Internet"… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/832021011172298752 (twitter.com/_/status/832021011172298752)
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chrisaldrich !tell kevinmarks, jeremycherfas, dgold If you have a moment to add to reasons or delineate your personal reasons, I'm sure others doing the same would appreciate your thoughts/feedback: https://indieweb.org/multi-site_indieweb
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tantek re that sdepolo tweet: interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_InterNetwork_Architecture_(RINA) (feel free to followup in #indieweb-dev as it is a bit plumbingy)
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Loqi photo comment is what a photo reply looks like in the context of the original post that it is in-reply-to https://indieweb.org/photo_comment
# tantek photo << [[photo comment]]
# Loqi ok, I added "[[photo comment]]" to the "See Also" section of /photo
# tantek hey aaronpk you added support for photo comments to p3k right? (vague memory) - if so, can you add to https://indieweb.org/photo_comment#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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aaronpk no, just the header for JSON requests https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#authentication-1
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@elefontpress @ThinkVera @IronYard Happy to oblige! Check out https://indieweb.org/ by @timberners_lee & https://indieweb.org/ from @t (twitter.com/_/status/832032979321024512)
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gRegorLove !tell chrisaldrich: Have you written about your use of Calibre and Goodreads? I wasn't aware there was an integration there (and only minimally used Calibre)
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# chrisaldrich gRegorLove, I haven't written about it, but there's a Calibre plugin for Goodreads that will allow you to sync your Goodreads data with your Calibre data. http://dearauthor.com/ebooks/goodreads-plugin-for-calibre/
# gRegorLove What is Calibre?
# Loqi Calibre is a free and open source e-book library management application https://indieweb.org/Calibre
# chrisaldrich I think it's mostly self explanatory in terms of what it does, though you may need to create a few data columns in calibre to sync things like ratings and reviews which calibre doesn't have out of the box.
# chrisaldrich GWG, Retrieve has generally worked pretty well in my hundreds of uses of it.
# chrisaldrich I think I've filed most of the issues and quirks I've seen except maybe for the Author URL not being wrapped around the author in many (some?) cases. I'd have to test to see if some kinds do it while others don't if you need to know which.
# chrisaldrich I'm not sure if it's provided, but when retrieving song/movie related types from soundcloud, netflix, etc. it would be nice for the running times to be pulled, though I suspect some users might want think that those are times they started/stopped watching/listening. It's not clear what's expected in those cases versus the original post and updated posts for other post types.
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GWG chrisaldrich: I wonder if this is worth supporting... https://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraph/music
# chrisaldrich Are you considering adding data fields for checkins now that you've got simple location working, or are you still waiting to finish the venue portion to handle that part of the data separately there?
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Retrieve Running Time for listen and watch post kinds? · Issue #71 · dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/issues/71
For sites like Soundcloud, ITunes, Netflix, youtube (if it's available) it" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-16 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/retrieve-running-time-for-listen-and-watch-post-kinds-issue
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Bridgy won't send webmentions (for Instagram) properly without it, so I'd submit it's more of a webmention issue. It's definitely not a theme issue, and" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-16 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/bridgy-wont-send-webmentions-for-instagram-properly-without-it-so
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[dko] dko uploaded a file: #spotted
# gRegorLove Welp, we've picked dates and a city for IWC. IWC Bellingham right before Linuxfest Northwest, 2017-05-04..05 Venue TBD, most likely same as Linuxfest
# gRegorLove Salt said attendance is usually ~1000
# gRegorLove I've never been before
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@100daysindieweb Day 57: https://Micropub.rocks/ Client Tests #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/15/14/day-57-micropub-rocks (twitter.com/_/status/832077220017434624)
# aaronpk (here is dko's photo https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-02-15-20-02-29.png)
# gRegorLove strugee: I set up the h-card template for you just using your username, wasn't sure if you wanted your name or nickname
# gRegorLove IWC Bellingham page: https://indieweb.org/2017/Bellingham
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KartikPrabhu Loqi: give mblaney a cookie
# KartikPrabhu was sure that would work
# KartikPrabhu mblaney++
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jeremycherfas Good morning
# Loqi jeremycherfas: [chrisaldrich] left you a message 9 hours, 31 minutes ago: I haven't written aobut integrating withknown into my WP site, though if it would help you I could. To a great extent, I mostly use Known for quick/short replies and commenting, though there are a few other small integrations like a link in the menu as well as advertising Known's stream RSS feed in my site header.
# Loqi jeremycherfas: chrisaldrich left you a message 8 hours, 16 minutes ago: If you have a moment to add to reasons or delineate your personal reasons, I'm sure others doing the same would appreciate your thoughts/feedback: https://indieweb.org/multi-site_indieweb
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# jeremycherfas !tell chrisaldrich I have added a section on multi-site indieweb to my user page. Thanks for prompting me.
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# Loqi [indieweb] "“Writing online outside of social networks. Remember blogs? Still pretty easy to set up…” - @kissane http://incisive.nu/2017/facebook/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-02-16 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/writing-online-outside-of-social-networks-remember-blogs-still-pretty
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@kevinmarks “Writing online outside of social networks. Remember blogs? Still pretty easy to set up…” - @kissane http://incisive.nu/2017/facebook/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/832160990460473345)
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petermolnar on Tuesday, at HWC Schiphol, we raised a question: when myfreeweb reposts/replies (examples: https://unrelenting.technology/notes/2016-07-20-15-59-46 , https://unrelenting.technology/replies/2017-02-14-21-30-40 ) they include the complete post in there, which, for a repost, makes sense, but it raises the question of copyright issues. The source is obviously and well credited, so is the author, but it's still "printer" on another source.
# petermolnar (Don't get me wrong, I'm ok, so is sebsel). Is there a brainstorming on this? For example, when a repost webmention reaches a site, they could automatically respond to that with a request to only link, not to include the post text, which kind of renders repostsing useless, but prevents funky copyright scenarios.
# Loqi All text and images contributed to the IndieWebCamp.com wiki are released to the public domain per CC0, as they were required to be copyright owned by the contributor prior to contribution and agreed to CC0 upon wiki editing, or already in the public domain or equivalent when contributed https://indieweb.org/Copyright
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sebsel ^^^ that page is https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb:Copyrights, and I can't find any other on this topic.
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# petermolnar it's can also become a parsing problem, you're not expecting your own, full article, quoted in a reply (at least I don't)
# sebsel I actually made a IndieRepost a few days ago, after an archive.org ping, because I thought it was good to have the article on more places. It was already marked up with h-entry, not hentry or manual, so I thought it would be okay, but I'm still wondering wether I should 410 or 403 that one, now it has less topical and current...
# petermolnar I have a strange idea: for reposts, show the content on stream pages - category, tag. etc - but redirect to the source url when the permalink on my site is visited
# petermolnar the problem with that is content tend to go away
# petermolnar this is what I do for bookmarks: https://petermolnar.net/category/bookmark/ - occasional quotes from the source - but you can still visit a permalink of a bookmarked thing which probably should be a (302?) redirect
# jeremycherfas I think that this kind of links as bookmarks goes back to the very early days of blogging, when people were sharing links. The links would go to the site they were talking about, and they might or might not add some comments to the link
# petermolnar there could be something like a 'h-terms', mf2 friendly, indicating what is allowed and what is not
# jeremycherfas Sknebel I think it was very rare indeed.
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# jeremycherfas Mostly because it wasn’t as easy to cut and poste content. At least, that’s my impression.
# petermolnar there's also a financial thing to it: if they read the content on your site, they won't click through to the source
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# petermolnar read the rants against AMP
# petermolnar my biggest problem is with reposting images: we know that in most cases, it should not be done, however, if I just bookmark it, even I will forget it's bookmarked because of the image on the other end. I was thinking to make 9gag long-image like entries: show a part of the image - image-quote? - and link to the source with "see full image at X"
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# sebsel I fixed my reposts https://seblog.nl/2017/02/16/2/day-32-new-repost-policy
# petermolnar I tend to use the old way of replying: inline quotes.
# petermolnar hm. there is http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-license which we could support
# petermolnar if not present, assume copyright on everything, if yes, act according to that
# petermolnar sebsel all of us realize at a certain point in time that what we are about to do had been done by aaronpk 3+ years ago ;)
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# Loqi dgold: chrisaldrich left you a message 12 hours, 8 minutes ago: If you have a moment to add to reasons or delineate your personal reasons, I'm sure others doing the same would appreciate your thoughts/feedback: https://indieweb.org/multi-site_indieweb
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# petermolnar ok, so I ended up doing this with reposted images: https://petermolnar.net/entombed-by-jonasdero/ - essentially watermarking them with the source url; this should be enough for now.
# Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indieweb.org/repost
# Loqi share is a watered down verb that's used on the "social web" (and other platforms like Google's Android) to mean pretty much any action https://indieweb.org/share
# petermolnar there is a completely, always legal way to "repost" something... iframe. But this sounds so bad I don't even know, where to start, yet, embeds sometimes work pretty similarly.
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# petermolnar what is embedding?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "embedding" yet. Would you like to create it?
# petermolnar what is embeds?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "embeds" yet. Would you like to create it?
# petermolnar what is oembed?
# Loqi oEmbed is a 2009-era JSON-based format for providing information to construct a link-preview of a page https://indieweb.org/oEmbed
# petermolnar ok, this relates to the discussion: https://indieweb.org/link-preview
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# 
dgold reading https://indieweb.org/OGP
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@call_user_func [New]indiewordpress/composer Composer version of the *IndieWeb for WordPress* plugin! https://packagist.org/packages/indiewordpress/composer (twitter.com/_/status/832263294362673153)
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# petermolnar on the repost vs copyright topic: I went through /link-preview and a little on https://en.support.wordpress.com/category/embedding-content/ and my conclusion is that reponsing, outside of silos, are supposed to be embeds, not copies, unless copies are specifically allowed to be made.
# petermolnar what is wapuu
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wapuu" yet. Would you like to create it?
# petermolnar oh, japanese. I understand everyting.
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# petermolnar I think partial copies, such as first few sentence from a long post out there[...], portion of images with indication that it's partial only (see 9gag long image view full post footer on image with shadow), the way wordpress handled pingbacks ([...]some part of the remote text[...]), with proper linking to the source should be fine.
# gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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@ChrisAldrich @matigo_ca Found 10C via #IndieWeb friends, curious to try it out. Are signups open? Signup doesn't seem to work. (twitter.com/_/status/832277344782053377)
# Loqi [indieweb] "@matigo_ca Found 10C via #IndieWeb friends, curious to try it out. Are signups open? Signup doesn't seem to work." by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-16 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/matigo_ca-found-10c-via-indieweb-friends-curious-to-try-it
# jeremycherfas Chrisaldrich I will send you an invitation.
# jeremycherfas Chrisaldrich, your Known site throwing an error when I try to comment. Will see if I can do it from my site.
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# chrisaldrich hrm... that sounds odd...
# jeremycherfas Odder still, it actually aaccepted the comment. Sorry, I didn’t keep it.
# chrisaldrich jeremycherfas, glad to be awake and in IRC at the same time
# jeremycherfas Heh. Me too.
# chrisaldrich I just noticed http://fornacalia.com/ seems to be down...
# jeremycherfas Be careful updating Known to 1.1.16 if you do locally and then push to production. There’s a strange dependency that will lock you out.
# chrisaldrich How were you trying to comment, via the online form, or by sending me a webmention?
# jeremycherfas Initally via the online form. Then a webmention. Both are there now.
# chrisaldrich Or perhaps even by replying to the Twitter posse copy?
# jeremycherfas Can I delete the one on my site now?
# chrisaldrich It's hard to believe there are so many useful options... thank goodness for IndieWeb
# chrisaldrich your choice, I can purge the duplicate if you like.
# jeremycherfas Oh bloody hell. That’s because it needs the www
# jeremycherfas I’ll delete mine.
# jeremycherfas That needs to be top of my Itches list.
# jeremycherfas Fixed my user page. Thanks for the warning.
# chrisaldrich Oh yes, that seems to work much better.
# Loqi [indieweb] "Nexa Stop, Torino" by Reverend on 2017-02-16 http://bavatuesdays.com/nexa-stop-torino/
# jeremycherfas Fixing the www cam wait.
# jeremycherfas Turin is wonderful. And it works, unlike Rome. But Rome has the climate.
# chrisaldrich Somewhere I may have a snippet you can throw into .htaccess to automatically fix the www bit; or googling will turn up a version too I'm sure.
# jeremycherfas I thought I had to do it on DNS or something.
# jeremycherfas Anyway, not even going to try now as I am bound to screw up.
# chrisaldrich Your recommendation "My most rewarding social interactions take place on 10Centuries" was intriguing. Thanks for the invite.
# chrisaldrich I could almost have sworn that wordpress had something somewhere to force the www without needing to do it manually anymore.
# chrisaldrich here's an article that seems to cover it: https://pagely.com/blog/2015/04/www-not-www-add-www-urls-wordpress/
# chrisaldrich What is a naked URL?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "naked URL" yet. Would you like to create it?
# chrisaldrich A naked URL, or sometimes a naked domain, is one that isn't prefixed with www.
# chrisaldrich A naked URL, or sometimes a naked domain, is one that isn't prefixed with www.
# gRegorLove Heh
# gRegorLove Try: naked URL. No "a"
# chrisaldrich Naked URL, or sometimes a naked domain, is one that isn't prefixed with www.
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# chrisaldrich Thanks gRegorLove; no thanks to you Loqi... ;)
# jeremycherfas Chrisaldrich They really are interactions, that’s why. There are some people who rub me up the wrong way, but one of the nice things is that you can select who appears in your Home stream at the same time as occasionally looking at Global.
# chrisaldrich Loqi doesn't seem to like me this month...
# gRegorLove gives Loqi a naked URL
# gRegorLove Get a room
# gRegorLove what is naked URL?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "naked URL" yet. Would you like to create it?
# gRegorLove naked URL, or sometimes a naked domain, is one that isn't prefixed with www
# gRegorLove Loqi, you're fired
# chrisaldrich jeremycherfas, I think that's one of the things I've liked most about indieweb is having more control on my own domain for controlling those sorts of things.
# gRegorLove oh yeah
# gRegorLove manually added it
# gRegorLove what is naked url
# Loqi A naked URL, or sometimes a naked domain, is one that isn't prefixed with www https://indieweb.org/naked_URL
# chrisaldrich trying to do an alternate <dfn> was just too much... okay, I'll make up with Loqi.
# gRegorLove alternatve dfn won't really do anything. I added a redirect for naked domain, so asking that will still work
# chrisaldrich gRegorLove++ for wikifying faster than I can
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# chrisaldrich aaronpk++ for the fact that Loqi does anything at all, much less add joy to our weary world
# gRegorLove what is love?
# Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM https://indieweb.org/love
# gRegorLove (asked that one a couple days late)
# chrisaldrich One might suspect you ask that every time you join the chat gRegorLove
# gRegorLove Haha
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# gRegorLove You could use a custom field
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# gRegorLove GWG probably has a better idea
# @100daysindieweb Day 58: Showing Image Uploads in IRC from the Slack Gateway #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/16/5/day-58-slack-images https://twitter.com/100daysindieweb/status/832303096503996416/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/832303096503996416)
# gRegorLove WP has a "link" Post Kind, doesn't it? I'm less familiar with Post Kinds
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# gRegorLove What is Post Kinds?
# Loqi Post or posts may refer to individual pieces of content published on an indieweb site such as notes, articles, & responses, or the act of creating the aforementioned content (present tense), or Posts about the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/post_kinds
# gRegorLove Oops, wrong link
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# Loqi [indieweb] "I'm not seeing the HTML export on the desktop version of Kindle (from 2015) on my work laptop at the moment, but I'm positive it's" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-16 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/im-not-seeing-the-html-export-on-the-desktop-version
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# PFMurph afternoon GWG!
# PFMurph indeed, been a while. how have you been?
# PFMurph Same. Indieweb wise, still same haha
# PFMurph well
# PFMurph same as ever for me
# PFMurph not making a round of plugin updates
# PFMurph I still don't have a project
# PFMurph on the other hand I've been doing some wacky IoT stuff
# PFMurph I'm trying to figure out how to balance all the things I want to automate with how insecure I know it's going to end up if I put everything on wifi
# PFMurph I wish home automation products would use PLN
# PFMurph I mean, that's one idea but wifi in itself isn't exactly secure
# PFMurph you could have some shmuck drive up, break in and turn all your stuff off
# PFMurph kind of paranoid yeah but I'd rather be conscious of it
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# [scottgruber] Is there how to docs for web mentions? I'm trying to figure out how hard it might be to implement with Perch - the cms I use on my site.
# KartikPrabhu [scottgruber]: this maybe https://indieweb.org/webmention-implementation-details
# [scottgruber] Is this the main place to look https://webmention.io/
# aaronpk once you start, https://webmention.rocks/ is a great tool to help you debug things
# aaronpk [scottgruber]: the spec is https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/
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# chrisaldrich dgold, the functionality you mentioned before (having the title redirect to an external URL rather than be a permalink) was somewhat similar to the linkblogs of old. There are many ways to do it, but I recently helped someone pull it off with this plugin: https://wordpress.org/plugins/linkblog-by-lucy/
# [scottgruber] thx! those are new to me.
# chrisaldrich The WP format Link functionality is dependent on what the theme makes it do. Sadly most themes don't do much if anything at all with it.
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# KartikPrabhu aaronpk: wasn't there a nice flow diagram somewhere on the wiki?
# chrisaldrich dgold, elegant themes had a relatively good post on something similar with some useful code examples too: https://www.elegantthemes.com/blog/tips-tricks/how-to-create-wordpress-post-formats
# [scottgruber] I live for reading specs!
# [scottgruber] actually sarcasm aside specs are the go to for canonical info.
# KartikPrabhu diagrams for overview, specs for details
# gRegorLove What is Perch?
# Loqi Perch is a content management system based on PHP+MySQL that bills itself as "The original 'really little CMS'" https://indieweb.org/Perch
# [scottgruber] I'll look for some of those php implentations. like you WordPress plugin eh?
# [scottgruber] Perch reminds me of Craft CMS.
# [scottgruber] It has support out of the box for structured content. so when I make. template I can choose what fields I like so its very customizable.
# gRegorLove There's minimum viable webmention from adactio as a starting point :) https://gist.github.com/adactio/6484118
# [scottgruber] Their twitter addon is already PESOS too
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# petermolnar Loqi, when you need to crawl a url which banned robots in robots.txt, what do you do?
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Podcast Directories | Why Can’t We … ?" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-16 http://boffosocko.com/2017/02/16/podcast-directories-why-cant-we/
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# petermolnar aaronpk in certain terms, it is; it crawls things when intered here
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club San Francisco 2017-02-22" by Kevin Marks on 2017-02-16 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-2017-02-22
# Loqi [indieweb] "does the t.co redirector make this kind of attack easier? https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/02/de-anonymizing_1.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-02-10 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/does-the-tco-redirector-make-this-kind-of-attack-easier
# Loqi [indieweb] "#indieweb Homebrew Website Club meetup. The graph behind us is Let's Encrypt installations." by Kevin Marks on 2017-02-09 http://werd.io/2017/indieweb-homebrew-website-club-meetup-the-graph-behind-us-is
# KartikPrabhu where where... looks around frantically
# KartikPrabhu wow!
# KartikPrabhu yeah
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