LoqiKevinMarks: chrisaldrich left you a message 1 day ago: If you have a moment to add to reasons or delineate your personal reasons, I'm sure others doing the same would appreciate your thoughts/feedback: https://indieweb.org/multi-site_indieweb
wolftune, KevinMarks, mlncn, KevinMarks_ and tantek joined the channel
[chrisaldrich]dgold: there are some simple settings for WordPress UI in the Settings tab, you can use something like the Menu Editor Plugin to change some of your menu UI (remove pieces/add things you use more often)
[chrisaldrich]dgold, the css is there to change almost anything you'd like, but maintaining that becomes a whole other issue. I'm sure there may be a few other plugins that devs use to hide UI pieces when delivering to clients to simplify things as well, but I suspect that's not what you're looking for.
miklbgranted, with WP having so many themes, it still takes work to incorporate mf2 and work around some of the inherent issues. I know when I switched to WP I struggled getting what I wanted from a presentation standpoint. Thus I have a lot of rough edges still.
[cleverdevil]I love that idea. Show the value to the community, and demonstrate the small amounts of changes that would be required to create a large benefit.
tantek^^^ can one of you WordPress folks stub that out? especially with an IndieWeb Examples section per all the people above (singpolyma snarfed ... ) that use it?
[chrisaldrich]dgold, if you haven't come across it yet, Independent Publisher is a nice little theme thats compatible as well. I think SemPress has several child themes in Github in addition to what you'd mentioned.
voxpelliWith WordPress having a built-in Rest API nowadays, aren't many running WordPress headless now? To keep a clear separation between "WordPress the CMS UI/Database" and "WordPress the Front-End"
[chrisaldrich]Jonathan, be careful as the .com version isn't compatible! It's a fork of the original .org theme which Automattic thought was so pretty they wanted it for their .com side. Indiependent Publisher from .org or Github is actually even prettier and more flexible. It also changes the comments section output to separate replies and traditional comments from webmentions
voxpelliHTML represents like a 100% of all websites ;) Thinking that indieweb friendly (I would put it that way rather than "compatible") theme's may perhaps not have to be WordPress specific, but could be more general, and then just have WP-adaptions
voxpelliadapting a indieweb friendly theme to work with Jekyll, WP, headless WP etc would be useful + would also be useful as a reference for people who are creating their own themes
[chrisaldrich]The tough part of WP's 28% figure is that they attain that by being tremendously backwards compatible and that simple fact in particular makes some of the microformats markup a bit tougher.
voxpellia tricky thing with microformats in themes are also that they only improve the theme when the theme is used correctly, when the theme is misused they can make the theme worse
[chrisaldrich]Jonathan the microformats checkbox on the feature filter at https://wordpress.org/themes is about as close as it comes at the moment, but the problem there is that 99% are just mfv1 and not mfv2
voxpellihas done his fair share of properly microformatting a theme, just to have another dev adapt the microformatted code for something that had totally different semantic meaning and just causing havoc
[chrisaldrich]there aren't enough CSS books that discuss the fact that microformats are semantic mark up and shouldn't really be used as hooks for themeing or JS
miklbdgold wp.com is the hosted service and themes adapted for it can only be used there. wp.org is for self hosted sites, so themes listed there can be used on any WP install
voxpellias people are generally more geared towards hacking wordpress themes it could make sense in that regard to try to keep mf2 markup in plugins so that people who want to hack their presentation doesn't break their semantics
voxpelliif one wants to make indieweb more approachable to people who are not really that into microformatness yet – but inserting markup through plugins can be fairly hard I guess
[cleverdevil]When we roll out out Micro.blog-compatible WordPress setup, we'll likely do so with a set of bundled themes and plugins that make sense in this regard, so I'll have to figure it out sooner rather than later ?
miklbGWG can explain it better, but one of the big problems is WP still uses hentry in the core code which messes things up for m2, if I'm remembering correctly.
[chrisaldrich]pfefferle's uf2 plugin does a pretty good job of injecting microformats as a plugin, but there's only so much it can do and for themes whose CSS can rely on themeing on hentry (Twenty Fourteen does this) things can go very wrong very quickly.
[chrisaldrich]perhaps the workaround for that is relying on h-entry for mf2? Most parsers will rely on that first and use the second as a back up right?
[chrisaldrich]Jonathan, if you're free for coffee, I can walk you through most of the hairy details as well as some of the potential pitfalls, both on the theme and plugin sides.
voxpelliso any mf1 class with no mf2 class on it would be treated as mf1 with mf1 properties, but any with a mf2 class would be treated as a mf2 class and only include mf2 properties (although could include child mf1 classes)
voxpellitantek: well, it means to show that it is possibly to upgrade a mf1 theme to mf2 without having to remove any classes, which means it can be a non-destructive upgrade – that seems helpful for wordpress to know
Loqi[[chrisaldrich]] pfefferle's uf2 plugin does a pretty good job of injecting microformats as a plugin, but there's only so much it can do and for themes whose CSS can rely on themeing on hentry (Twenty Fourteen does this) things can go very wrong very quickly....
GWGvoxpelli, yes. I talked to him when he was working on oEmbed improvements and tried to get interest then. I am building something now in Post Kinds that is proof of concept in design.
voxpelliI started using OG-tags at Bloglovin when I worked there, a pain point is that Facebook doesn't use the OG-tags directly, but rather derive data from them by applying some post-processing, like checking if the size of the images are big enough :/
voxpelliSo turns out that there's many sites with OG-images that are smaller than what Facebook shows and thus their users are surprised when you start using them (Hi Blogger!)
pfefferleGWG hmmm... I like the sharing idea, but it also brings a lot of problems... Sharing means dependencies, and WordPress is not very good with that...
pfefferleGWG to the API... I think it is a nice idea for a standalone plugin, but I would prefer using a lib directly instead of calling it via a http call...
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