#indieweb 2017-03-01

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dgold
oof. AIM to no longer use the OSCAR protocol.
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dgold
that's the end of that, then.
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Zegnat
Are they closing down or switching to a different protocol, dgold? Link?
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Zegnat
What is AIM?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "AIM" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10bD
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Zegnat
AIM is [[AOL]] Instant Messanger
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Zegnat
AIM << [[messaging]]
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[messaging]]" to the "See Also" section of /AIM
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dgold
'the new AIM'
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Zegnat
Those first three FAQ answers explained literally nothing
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GWG
Guess it is time to pressure the 5 people I know who still use AIM and see if they have adopted something else.
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dgold
GWG: I've been using it _forever_
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dgold
hell, I even remember using GAIM when it was capitalised
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GWG
dgold, I built a bitlbee installation so I could forget about dealing with it and convert it into a format that I was still using. But all good things must come to an end
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dgold
not sure you could call AIM/Oscar 'good'
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dgold
</aside>
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GWG
dgold: There were people I talked to on there a lot.
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GWG
But either way, on to the future.
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GWG
Maybe Indiemessenging will become popular
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Zegnat
I just need Facebook to aggregate their IMing. Most people I know have switched to either Messenger or WhatsApp, if those two merge I can get rid of yet another app.
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frzn
Zegnat: if they merge facebook would lost like 100bi dollars.
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frzn
I think it might never happen
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Zegnat
If they merge Facebook would have made a competitor disappear for 100bi. That might be worth it on their books.
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petermolnar
Indiemessenging - matrix?
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frzn
Zegnat: right, but they already did it buying whatsapp for 30bi
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frzn
or 20, dont remember well
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petermolnar
that's an incredibly stupid move from aol
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Zegnat
Then how do they lose 100bi? I thought you were referring to the price of WhatsApp.
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petermolnar
whoever still uses it are most probably via 3rd party by now
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petermolnar
this is essentially sunsetting AIM
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Zegnat
Unless they move AIM to XMPP. But I guess that isn’t what they have done.
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frzn
Zegnat: because it would be the price of whatsapp today if it was an independent app with more than 1billion users
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frzn
if they merge messenger and whatsapp, one of these two userbases would be "financially" lost
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frzn
in their accounting
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Zegnat
I don’t agree, because Facebook does not plan to sell WhatsApp at all. And I don’t think WhatsApp has publicly traded stock either, so there isn’t actually any real value there other than the assets and the userbase. Facebook would keep the entire userbase by merging with Messenger.
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Zegnat
Unless I am mistaken and WhatsApp is currently trading?
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frzn
Zegnat: Facebook treats whatsapp, oculus and instagram as different companies
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frzn
Zegnat: not yet, but could
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dgold
Zegnat: they did have AIM using XMPP, for most of 2008
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dgold
then they stopped again
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@voxpelli
@aral Will surely attend and happy to contribute with any wanted IndieWeb knowledge 🙂
(twtr.io/1P37JW6QRb0)
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petermolnar
careful there, voxpelli
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Zegnat
Oh, end of March, terribly tempted to accompany you there voxpelli!
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@mermshaus
Tantek Çelik: Starting a modest #IndieWeb #100Days of Positive Posts […] http://tantek.com/2017/020/t3/indieweb-100days-positive-posts-100dopp
(twtr.io/1P37khjSghQ)
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petermolnar
I actually went to https://ind.ie/archive/summit/ and met some interesting people, but never, ever saw anything actual coming into existence that was "announced" there (not just the @aral stuff)
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Loqi
Indie Tech Summit
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petermolnar
so I'd recommend to go to and leave from Decent without expectations
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voxpelli
petermolnar: I'm just going because it's a decentralized meetup here in Malmö and feels like the work I do should be represented there
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petermolnar
I completely agree with that
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Zegnat
couldn’t you have announced IndieWeb stuff at the Indie Tech Summit, petermolnar? Then something would have come out of it
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petermolnar
I wasn't in indieweb back then yet
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petermolnar
and since, @aral blocked me (as well)
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[eddie]
#POSSEallTheThings http://eddiehinkle.com/indieweb/ my IndieWeb profile page content, with Syndication link to my IndieWeb profile. 😎
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Loqi
Indieweb
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aaronpk
hah awesome
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tantek
what is OSCAR?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "OSCAR" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10bE
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tantek
what is AIM?
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Loqi
AIM is AOL Instant Messenger https://indieweb.org/AIM
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tantek
what is WhatsApp
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Loqi
WhatsApp is a proprietary mobile messaging application and is owned by Facebook https://indieweb.org/WhatsApp
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tantek
what is Oculus
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Oculus" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10bF
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petermolnar
will resist to say Oscar is the chauffeur
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tantek
catches up on today's logs
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Zegnat
I don’t think Oculus is of any value to be added to the wiki. The Oculus Rift is one of the two major PC players in VR gaming headsets right now, and they were bought by Facebook because Facebook VR (???)
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tantek
what is VR?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "VR" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10bG
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tantek
Zegnat, fair
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tantek
until someone starts posting VR content on their site
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Zegnat
VR is Virtual Reality, usually this means blocking your sight for true reality and showing something different.
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Zegnat
A global definition of VR should be fine.
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aaronpk
TIL you can't change your twitter username when your account is suspended
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Oculus Rift]]" to the "See Also" section of /VR
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tantek
aaronpk -> Twitter#Issues
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Zegnat
The other major PC VR headset:
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[HTC Vive]]" to the "See Also" section of /VR
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aaronpk
and now getting a 500 internal server error trying to update the website
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aaronpk
on twitter
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tantek
500s on silos / services are worth screenshots IMO
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tantek
again, helps to dispell all the myths about uptime, reliability etc.
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tantek
which I hear all too often as why people "just" depend on silos instead of using their own domain, website etc.
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dgold
tantek: its a search for a mythical ease of use
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tantek
though related, I think ease of use is different from dependability
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dgold
tantek: I think its the same wellspring.
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dgold
I hear people all the time saying they 'just' want something that 'just works'
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dgold
then they leap through hoops to make the silos work like you wouldn't believe
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snarfed1
re uptime, shades of gray are also important
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snarfed1
nothing has 100% uptime, but the differences btw e.g. 99.9%, 99.0%, and 90% are real and meaningful
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aaronpk
the differences in disclosure and handling of downtime are important too
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snarfed1
sure!
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snarfed1
as a good example, both twitter and woodwind are down and return errors sometimes, but they clearly have *qualitatively* different uptime and reliability :P
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tantek
snarfed, the low reliability (high downtime, high latency, high error rate) of Twitter in 2009 is what pushed me over the edge to DIY and (re)build my own posting support with POSSE to Twitter etc.
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snarfed1
tantek: understood!
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[chrisaldrich]
Wikipedia has a nice chart on what the percentages mean in hours/minutes/seconds per year/month/week/day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_availability
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tantek
yeah no more 5 nines for AWS
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[eddie]
#TrueWords
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bear
ugh - the pain that is involved to move from 2 9's to 3 9's
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[cleverdevil]
Hope to see some of you there 🙂
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[cleverdevil]
On the plane up to Portland for tonight's Homebrew Website Club at the DreamHost offices,
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aaronpk
[cleverdevil]: \o/ you should tweet that so I can RT it!
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tantek
whoa awesome cleverdevil!
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tantek
cleverdevil++
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Loqi
cleverdevil has 8 karma in this channel (9 overall)
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[cleverdevil]
Good idea 🙂
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tantek
anyone understand this French thread about indiewebcamp? https://twitter.com/mazenovi/status/834029660690403328
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@mazenovi
@aeris22 de plus le selfhosting se perfectionne avec @yunohost ou @indiewebcamp ne pas miner leurs intentions pourrait aussi être un plan
(twtr.io/1Nkaq85NEFU)
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@cleverdevil
On the plane to Portland for tonight's Homebrew Website Club at the @DreamHost offices. Hope to see you there! #IndieWeb #HBWC
(twtr.io/1P3Pm9N_MWk)
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Zegnat
You can ask one of the guys from HWC Brussels to look into it, tantek. Though neither seem to be in this channel right now :(
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[chrisaldrich]
tantek: It looks like a blogpost about Free Software, but with the caveat that free software does have "costs". the next tweet is that self-hosting and indieweb can be a solution, with the reply that they too can have costs. (To me it looks like middling dev philosophy that nothing good ever comes easy...)
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[chrisaldrich]
the tail end of the conversation is general grousing...
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[chrisaldrich]
My French isn't great, but should give at least an idea of what they're saying.
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@keithjgrant
@cleverdevil @DreamHost in reply to a post on https://twitter.com Also, congratulations, these are the first replies to twitter… http://keithjgrant.com/replies/2017/03/71084/
(twtr.io/1P3SNDmoMkb)
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[keithjgrant]
Looks like I've got a little extra metadata in the e-content there, but the extension is working and stable!
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[chrisaldrich]
I think their conversation boils down to the software question of "How Free is Free?" and does it really make us more "Free" (in the freedom sense.)
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tantek
or which free(s) are you optimizing for? money? time? space? choice?
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GWG
Afternoon
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[chrisaldrich]
afternoon GWG
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[cleverdevil]
Whew. Landed and happily settled in at DreamHost PDX.
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tantek
wow instagram is getting mad fast at striking down reported spam. just reported an account as spam and it was taken down within minutes!
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tantek
I don't know if that's because they're improving in general or if I've somehow acquired a high(er) reputation for spam reporting (so they fast track my reports)
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tantek
what is report
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "report" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10bk
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tantek
report is [[report abuse]]
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aaronpk
[cleverdevil]: awesome! i was thinking about heading downtown a bit earlier and grabbing a happy hour drink nearby if you're interested
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[cleverdevil]
I'm down for that!
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[cleverdevil]
I need to walk next door and check into my hotel at some point before the meetup.
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aaronpk
awesome! /me takes it to #indieweb-chat
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Comment on How to Own & Display Your Twitter Archive on Your Website in Under 10 Minutes by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-03-01 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/05/how-to-own-display-your-twitter-archive-on-your-website-in-under-10-minutes/#comment-34021
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@manton2
Excited to be in Portland tonight for Homebrew Website Club! Details here: https://indieweb.org/events/2017-03-01-homebrew-website-club
(twtr.io/1P3kU7QYDNA)
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GWG
I forgot, it is an HWC night
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[kevinmarks]
Well, in Portland it is
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[acegiak_net]
Hmmm. Looks like webmention comments aren't displaying properly if they're on a page rather than a post. Need to investigate.
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GWG
acegiak, you don't need to
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GWG
I can tell you
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DataComputist1
I can't got to downtown Portland in time but is still interested in what you present there. Is there a way for me to watch it online?
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aaronpk
DataComputist1: we aren't set up to stream online tonight unfortunately!
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[acegiak_net]
That looks like it's a about sending, not displaying, gwg
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[acegiak_net]
https://acegiak.net/about-acegiak/ that's the page I assign person tag comments to, but they don't show the content
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Loqi
[Ashton McAllan] About Acegiak
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@brianjesse
@AndySylvester99 Andy will you make it to Dreamhost office tonight for Homebrew Website Club? trying to get there myself #indieweb
(twtr.io/1P3x5HRosq9)
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DataComputist1
It has started right?
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GWG
acegiak, it closes pings open.
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Exodist
waves from the current meeting!
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aaronpk
welcome from PDX! starting intros
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tantek
woot!
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aaronpk
steven: scoutfor.io
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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aaronpk
does not have a personal website (yet)
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aaronpk
working on work culture, bringing groups together
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aaronpk
in the process of writing a ruby app that will be his personal website
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aaronpk
last thing he changed on his website was fixing a typo
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aaronpk
manton reece: manton.org
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aaronpk
been blogging there 13 years or so
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aaronpk
... i try to post a couple times a day. the last thing i changed... adopting microblog post as a first class citizen
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aaronpk
... indieweb has been on my radar for a while. i launched a kickstarter project micro.blog to help people own their own microblog content on their websites.
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aaronpk
nate: 8orneight.wordpress.com
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aaronpk
oops that should be n8orneight.wordpress.com
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aaronpk
... the last thing i posted was about a play
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aaronpk
jonathan lacour: cleverdevil.io
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aaronpk
... i work at dreamhost, doing strategy to figure out what we do as a company
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aaronpk
... one of the reasons we backed manton's kickstarter campaign was because i thought it was a good idea and was something we as a company believe in
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aaronpk
... i used to have a site back in the day that i hand coded. then i built a site using movable type. I ran that on my laptop and generated static HTML and uploaded that. then I went dormant on the web, and fell prey to having my identity online being twitter/facebook.
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aaronpk
... indieweb helped me get back to having my own website. i use Known, hosted at dreamhost.
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aaronpk
... the last thing i changed on my website, I've been posting a lot. i wrote a plugin for Known for posting reviews of things.
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aaronpk
... it uses the microformats 2 for reviews, you can post a book review, a movie review, and other things
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aaronpk
chad: senior software developer at dreamhost
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aaronpk
... my personal website has been down since i started working at dreamhost ironically, because all it was was my resume
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aaronpk
chad is Exodist
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aaronpk
... last change to the website was a refactor
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aaronpk
jeremy: principle cloud architect at dreamhost
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aaronpk
... i domain hop every year, so probably no wbesites worth mentioning
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aaronpk
... i try out various software and deployments
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aaronpk
... the last thing i worked on was a wordpress site deploying to various clouds
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aaronpk
wade: i don't have a website i post to
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aaronpk
... i work at the apple store downtown, and you're sort of discouraged from posting there
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aaronpk
... my coworkers ask why don't you have a facebook? i don't want to post somewhere that I don't owmn
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aaronpk
... i made a little board that shows the next bus and max arrivals, and that's at the wall at the office
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aaronpk
marc: mbcharbonneau.com
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aaronpk
... i have half a dozen website for projects and business stuff
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aaronpk
... moved everything over to jekyll and set up letsencrypt on my host
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aaronpk
... the last thing i did was i wrote a privacy policy for my side project business website
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[cleverdevil]
aaronpk is now outlining interesting events that have happened lately in IndieWeb
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[cleverdevil]
... now discussing an interaction he did with a friend on his website, that was enabled by webmention
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[cleverdevil]
... webmention was approved as a w3c recommendation recently (huzzah!)
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[cleverdevil]
... micropub is also on the verge of becoming an official w3c recommendation!
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[cleverdevil]
... could be as soon as next week 🙂
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[cleverdevil]
(kudos to aaronpk for pushing this forward... great news!)
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[cleverdevil]
Now manton is giving an overview of why he created Micro.blog, and what he's been up to.
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[cleverdevil]
... he's not a liar, Micro.blog actually seems to work 😉
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@aaronpk
Hello from Homebrew Website Club PDX! Thanks to @DreamHost for hosting us! 🍕🎉 #indieweb https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/837135519427395584/photo/1
(twtr.io/1P45KTzGTej)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Hello from Homebrew Website Club PDX! Thanks to @DreamHost for hosting us! 🍕🎉 #indieweb" on 2017-03-02
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[cleverdevil]
Odd things that have websites: aaronpk's cat and cleverdevil's grill/smoker.
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GWG
I've never seen the smoker site
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[kevinmarks]
Wait, is my site down?
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sknebel
[kevinmarks]: seems ok for me? heroku had amazon-s3-related problems yesterday, in case you are seeing older notifications?
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[kevinmarks]
Ah, I was on a bad captive portal wifi
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@cleverdevil
Great times tonight with @aaronpk, @manton2, and others at Homebrew Website Club. The #IndieWeb potential is amazing. Let's make it happen!
(twtr.io/1P4TvwS3KYG)
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