#indieweb 2017-03-04

2017-03-04 UTC
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snarfed wow new google issue tracker is laughably bad. :P e.g. https://issuetracker.google.com/issues?q=status:open%20componentid:166797%2B
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snarfed * whines that there are more than 1k search results
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snarfed * warns that results are *incomplete*
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snarfed * includes google-internal-only http://go/... link
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snarfed all funny nostalgic common complaints when it was internal only, but pretty bad that they're still all there (and external facing) now
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GWG tantek, it gets attention, but they didn't treat me fairly when I contacted them
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gRegorLove http://idlewords.com/2017/02/social_media_needs_a_travel_mode.htm
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aaronpk i just did that thing where you include a screenshot of text to get around the twitter character limit in order to POSSE a long tweet
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Loqi [indieweb] "Reply to Web Annotations are Now a W3C Standard, Paving the Way for Decentralized Annotation Infrastructure" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-03-04 http://boffosocko.com/2017/03/03/reply-to-web-annotations-are-now-a-w3c-standard-paving-the-way-for-decentralized-annotation-infrastructure/
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aaronpk oh wow, my tweet is up to 99 likes. i think this might be the most i've gotten
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[kevinmarks] I registered a domain to sell my house. Now wondering how I transfer it to the new owner
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GWG [kevinmarks]: Where are you going?
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GWG [kevinmarks]: No more cameos from your backyard anymore?
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miklb I thought there was a standard procedure to transfer domains
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[kevinmarks] Moving back to the UK
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GWG [kevinmarks]: You are? I didn't know that.
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GWG Sorry to see you go. It reduces my chances of meeting you in person to some degree at an IWC.
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[kevinmarks] It has a video sideshow of the house, which is a odd thing as the owner
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[chrisaldrich] What is Indieweb bingo?
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Loqi IndieWeb Bingo is a game played by IndieWebCamp attendees to see how many community members they can meet https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb_Bingo
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GWG In IWC LA, I punched my chrisaldrich and adactio spaces. If I get KevinMarks, I might be able to shout Bingo and win a prize.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm not aware of real estate companies who renew address URL's past the sale of the house, so it's pretty easy to wait for them to expire and snap them up if you want them. This area has a lot of site-deaths, so make sure you bookmark it to the wayback machine kevinmarks.
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@100daysindieweb Day 73: Updated Documentation for https://indieauth.com/ #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/03/16/day-73-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/837885102264741888)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Web Annotations are Now a W3C Standard, Paving the Way for Decentralized Annotation Infrastructure" on 2017-03-03 https://wptavern.com/web-annotations-are-now-a-w3c-standard-paving-the-way-for-decentralized-annotation-infrastructure?utm_source=wproll.com&utm_campaign=planetrss
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[jeremycherfas] !tell chrisaldrich That'd be fine. At your disposal any time around 7-8 am CET.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [jeremycherfas]: [chrisaldrich] left you a message 7 hours, 49 minutes ago: some reason my notifications weren't working, so I didn't see your note until about an hour ago catching up on logs. Perhaps sometime next week?
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[chrisaldrich] jeremycherfas, do you have a favorite day?
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: [jeremycherfas] left you a message 2 minutes ago: That'd be fine. At your disposal any time around 7-8 am CET.
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[jeremycherfas] Not really. Tuesday and Wednesday are good.
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[chrisaldrich] I won't be back home on Tuesday until 8:10am CET because of a class but could do it after time if it's not inconvenient, otherwise 7-8 on Wednesday will work.
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[jeremycherfas] Let's say Wednesday then.
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[chrisaldrich] Excellent, do you have a favorite platform? Google Hangouts, skype, other?
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bignose [chrisaldrich]: Matrix (via Riot, <URL: https://riot.im/>) does video conferencing on a federated service.
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[chrisaldrich] thanks bignose, but I probably won't be scratching that itch until well after next week. ?
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mblaney I just added opml import to my reader at https://unicyclic.com if anyone is interested in trying it out.
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mblaney tested it with my feedly export and also an old google reader takeout file. anyone use other readers that export their feeds?
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jaduncan[m] I'll import my Newsblur feed and tell you how it goes now.
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mblaney hi jaduncan thanks that would be great!
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jaduncan[m] mblaney: NP; I've just logged in now. (in what is almost a textbook example of how some deanonymization attacks can work just based on timestamps.)
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jaduncan[m] I get this on Chrome when I add the opml file:
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jaduncan[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot 2017-03-04 at 14.26.38.png (32KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/HlZIgIWQgsXsPmyTUCGqnZOA
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jaduncan[m] It then doesn't appear to actually import.
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jaduncan[m] If I press import again it just disappears the file chooser.
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jaduncan[m] If I press add it just says feed not found.
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jaduncan[m] mblaney: Is Chrome missing a bit of UI?
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mblaney hmmm thanks for the feedback jaduncan, it's meant to trigger the import as soon as you pick a file to upload.
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mblaney will look into it.
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jaduncan[m] I'll test in FF to see if it's a browser thing, back in a moment.
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sknebel ohh, interesting, I just discovered my feed reader supports subscribing to OPML files
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sknebel as in, it checks them regularly for updates and adjusts its subscriptions
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sknebel (so thanks for mblaney for making me look at its options on the hunt for an opml export ;))
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sknebel that would be an interesting alternative to these "planet X" feed agregation sites, which often fail in various ways
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mblaney sknebel yeah I've heard of that before, a cool feature to have. what reader do you use?
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sknebel inoreader
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sknebel mblaney: where do find the import option?
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jaduncan[m] On Android FF I get the import notice but it doesn't actually import.
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jaduncan[m] The file is around 20kb and roughly a hundred entries.
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jaduncan[m] mblaney: I can send it over if you need it for testing.
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mblaney sknebel in unicyclic.com? if you log in with indieauth there's a button near the top of the page with a pencil icon. if you click that it will show you other options including import.
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sknebel ahhh. I thought that was related to the "new post" entry above
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mblaney sknebel yeah I should make it more obvious, at least the first time you see it.
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sknebel and/or have it in the menu at the top, as "manage subscriptions" or something
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mblaney jaduncan thanks but I'm happy to create a newsblur account just to check the export format (did that for feedly)
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sknebel mblaney: same here: "I get a short "importing file" notification (that I missed the first time round, hunting frantically for the submit button for the file upload), then nothing
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jaduncan[m] mblaney: I wondered if it was choking on a special character, but you can probably see the logs on my imports.
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sknebel 08:53:21.526 ReferenceError: assignment to undeclared variable importList 1 dobrado.js:3073:12
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sknebel importFile/<.success https://unicyclic.com/js/dobrado.js:3073:12
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sknebel m.Callbacks/j https://unicyclic.com/js/3rdparty.js:70:27304
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sknebel m.Callbacks/k.fireWith https://unicyclic.com/js/3rdparty.js:70:28122
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sknebel x https://unicyclic.com/js/3rdparty.js:73:22109
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sknebel .send/b https://unicyclic.com/js/3rdparty.js:73:26030
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sknebel mblaney: that shows up in the console, seems to be related
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mblaney sknebel you're on chrome too? I also just discovered that ;-)
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sknebel mblaney: no, firefox
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sknebel (51.0.1 on desktop)
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mblaney jaduncan as sknebel pointed out it's actually just choking on a javascript error before it even uploads the file.
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jaduncan[m] Yeah, so I see now.
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mblaney hmmm yeah I wonder why that works for me on FF?
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mblaney importList is a global within this context, but I must be missing something.
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mblaney doh no I did put it at the wrong scope :-( fixing now.
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mblaney jaduncan, sknebel thanks for your help. I've fixed and tested on chrome, if you're interested in testing again you will need to reload the page to get the updated javascript
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sknebel mblaney: seems to be working (slowly, I'll report back once it's done importing)
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mblaney sknebel that's great, thanks! I've got to step away for a bit, will check back in later.
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sknebel mblaney: seems to have worked!
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@jkphl @m_ott Könnte dich das vielleicht sogar nach Nürnberg locken? ^^ So zwischen @btconf, @nueww und @indiewebcamp? +@webrocker @bkastl (twitter.com/_/status/837951230429265920)
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@jkphl @MadeMyDay Klar. Nur wird sich halt die #indiewebcamp-Gang am Mi auf den Weg nach NUE machen. Hier ist dann @nueww. Workshop / Masterclass › (twitter.com/_/status/837956091191443456)
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mblaney sknebel: awesome! I guess opml export formats are pretty standard then :-) thanks for trying it out.
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mblaney jaduncan: just exported from newsblur too, which also works now.
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jaduncan[m] Excellent news! My congratulations on the shiny new feature, mblaney. :)
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jaduncan[m] ++mblaney
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sebsel jaduncan[m] the ++ has to be at the back :)
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jaduncan[m] mblaney++
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Loqi mblaney has 17 karma in this channel (20 overall)
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jaduncan[m] Also sebsel++ for the help. Heh. I feel like Oprah. Everyone gets a car/bees! Normal service will now be resumed.
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jaduncan[m] sebsel++
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Loqi sebsel has 14 karma in this channel (19 overall)
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[jeremycherfas] !tell Chrisaldrich I prefer Skype. My Skype name is jeremycherfas.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@EatPodcast I wonder whether I can use the Recipe plugin for @withknown to markup a recipe for #indieweb and then copy the HTML to my own site? (twitter.com/_/status/838034121138057217)
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GWG Morning all
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sknebel morning GWG!
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GWG Anything going on there?
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[eddie] Morning!
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GWG Still hoping to complete an Indieweb project this weekend
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tantek GWG++ sounds like a good plan!
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Loqi gwg has 191 karma in this channel (209 overall)
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GWG tantek, I think I am close to finishing this round of improvements.
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GWG Part of my mind is already trying to pick the next thing
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tantek GWG, that's common. as you get close to finishing something it's often easy to get distracted by looking for something new. Sometimes finishing and wrapping something up is the hardest part.
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GWG Well, it is never finished. I always come back
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GWG Adding new features
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tantek but is each feature itself "finished"?
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GWG To a stopping point.
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GWG For example, I added some new data, but I am still working on the visual presentation. I might come back and enhance it further.
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jaduncan[m] Hopefully not a segfault.
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GWG I was commenting last night on issues of author icon. I am going to try to make it better, but storing it locally is a future project right now
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[eddie] !tell miklb Just looking at your site, WOW! I love the design of your notes "Timeline". I might be using that as some inspiration as I start using mine for notes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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miklb thanks, I'm currently tweaking it in a refresh of the design, hope to have it up by end of weekend.
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[eddie] Oh, awesome! Looking forward to see it
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GWG I want to see it too
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miklb mostly going for a cleaner look based on the same layout, better typography. I did tweak the timeline so the "bullets" match up with the dates.
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miklb [eddie] I'll be putting my WP theme up on GitHub when I'm done. Not as a theme that is meant to be used off the shelf, but just to share the code for any other IndieWeb users looking for ideas.
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GWG What do you all think about this? https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/40031
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GWG Am I wrong about supporting displaying and storing annotations before you build a system to store your annotations of other sites?
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aaronpk the equivalent question for webmention would be should you store and display received webmentions before you send them, and I think the answer for that is not necessarily "yes"
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure most people who start using webmention begin with sending them
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aaronpk i don't know how that relates to wordpress internals though, so it may make sense for wordpress to be able to receive annotations first like you suggest
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GWG aaronpk: For one person, sending webmentions before storing and displaying may make sense. But for the large number of WordPress users, it would be putting the cart before the horse.
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sknebel I'm not sure what the issue creator means by "1. Add enhancements to the commenting system to accept references to annotations."
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GWG sknebel: Neither do I. That is why I countered with...make annotations a type of comment.
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GWG That would allow the build-out of what he meant by enhancements.
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sknebel from my understanding off the W3C annotation stuff, I would expect clients and annotation servers to be the first bits of the eco system to be created
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sknebel (clients to create annotations, servers to store them)
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sknebel the bit that informs publishers about annotations would (I think) be the last
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sknebel since it e.g. doesn't apply to non-public annotations
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sknebel and requires the other 2 pieces to exist
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sknebel (of course, a wordpress site might be all of those pieces: wordpress users/commenters annotating content on the site, the annotations stored on the site)
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GWG sknebel: WordPress has a commenting system. It doesn't have an annotation system. So, if annotations as a form of comment in that analogy, the comment system has to be able to accept them as a prerequisite of them being attached to a post.
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GWG Conversely, if the idea is that you are annotating someone else's site with your site, that would be a post type in my opinion, not a comment type.
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GWG But for me, I'd build annotations with webmentions as the protocol, over the mix of JSON-LD, Schema, and whatever else seems to be in the W3C specification.
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sknebel right, (2.) on the ticket reads to me like somehow representing annotations on external sites as comments on special posts, which sort of feels like a weird way of doing it (why not posts? because comments are more similar to annotations in some way? because that would support representing annotations other users (not users of the local WP instance) on local posts?)
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GWG I'm thinking of adding that point as a second comment on the ticket.
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sknebel there is a question if all annotations, those stored on the site when it plays the role as "annotation server" for its owner(s), and those published by others, about the local site, and "backfed" to it, should be stored the same way. I *think* that's the aim of "annotations as comments", but I'm not sure about that
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GWG I just added another comment.
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GWG Oh well.
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GWG Makes me want to support marginalia in webmentions on WordPress though
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sknebel I'm reading up on what they proposed to notify the target site of a created annotation, I totally missed that the first time round
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sknebel ... either I'm totally missing it, or that isn't actually in the spec
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GWG sknebel: But it would work with webmentions.
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GWG Either way, I should read up on fragmentions and marginalia.
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GWG Maybe over lunch
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GWG Speaking of which, I'm hungry.
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sknebel sure, webmentions would work. but the fancy graphics they published pretends it is specified, and if there is no recommendation on how to do it its even more pointless to start implmenting it before someone actually sends it
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sknebel yep, other sources confirm this, they really didn't spec anything
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sknebel how did this get recommendation status?
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sknebel well, ok, nothing in the actual spec claims that this is part of the spec, only the material around them
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • February 25 - March 3, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/395158 (twitter.com/_/status/838087069620649984)
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GWG Okay, this pizza place is blocking the wiki. Breaking out hotspot
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@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Ed for Feb 25 - Mar 3 2017. https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/04/125651/ (twitter.com/_/status/838088716736417795)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • February 25 - March 3, 2017" https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/04/125651/#t=542
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • February 25 - March 3, 2017" https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/04/125651/
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GWG No chance fragmentions or some variant might end up as a specification, is there?
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aaronpk i'd say there's chance if someone wants to work on it :)
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GWG aaronpk, I am trying to read the annotation specs and I want to congratulate you on writing a specification I understood
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aaronpk hah thanks
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sknebel yeah, I had similar thoughts earlier
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sknebel aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 475 karma in this channel (1233 overall)
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aaronpk well i can't take all the credit the original draft was written by sandeepshetty
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sknebel (also for handling the process around it which seems a lot more transparently)
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aaronpk sandeepshetty++
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Loqi sandeepshetty has 3 karma
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sknebel -ly
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GWG I am not sure I could handle getting fragmentions as a specification
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aaronpk well step 1 is just writing it in that format
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aaronpk we have the community group that will continue to exist past the charter of our working group, and while we can't publish a Recommendation from the community group, we can publish a Note, and it's entirely possible that these Notes may get picked up by the working group if the charter is ever renewed again
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GWG How likely is that?
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aaronpk hard to say
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aaronpk very likely depends on the interest from people in the specs that the group has published so far
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GWG I think I should implement something before specifying
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sknebel (the annotation group also came up with a way of stuffing their selectors in fragments: https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-selectors-states-20170223/#frags )
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aaronpk Yes that's usually a good idea. The spec should be based on implementation experience. That's also one way to make sure the spec is easier to read, when it's written as documentation of what's being built.
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GWG sknebel, does that look simple to you?
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sknebel GWG: I said "stuffing" for a reason (=no, although their different selectors are at least interesting to look at as options)
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GWG The question I have to contemplate is recognizing fragmentions received and saving them as comments.
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GWG As well as sending them.
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GWG Does anyone implement fragmentation support in a Webmention handler?
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[dgold] what are fragmentations
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fragmentations" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk fragmentation is /fragmention
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aaronpk fragmentations is /fragmention
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Loqi ok
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dgold oh, fragmention
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GWG Sorry, my mistake
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dgold its okay, GWG - fragmention is about as enlightening :]
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aaronpk this is a very strange article about using facebook's "share" feature http://oakwebdesign.com.au/blog/copy-paste-facebook-post-dont-share/
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aaronpk I don't agree with all the conclusions drawn, but it's interesting to see this article written as a response to behavior that emerged after something facebook did
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aaronpk (and this is related to the repost discussions over the last couple days)
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[kevinmarks] Fragmention being autocorrected to fragmentation is a problem
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[kevinmarks] And I should write fragmention in w3c note compatible format.
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[kevinmarks] That annotation syntax is rather messy, yes. Also, they don't give an example of "text being annotated" selector alone, but there looks to be an equivalent.
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GWG KevinMarks, I would endorse such a suggestion
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@100daysindieweb Day 74: Added a Chat Widget to my Website! #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/04/8/day-74-chat-widget (twitter.com/_/status/838167378848407553)
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aaronpk sknebel: ^^^ that is your fault
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Loqi [indieweb] "Day 74: Added a Chat Widget to my Website! #100DaysOfIndieWeb" on 2017-03-04
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