#indieweb 2017-03-15

2017-03-15 UTC
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martymcguire[m] snarfed: thanks! i am using that for the endpoint finding and auth bits. i just submitted some patches back for supporting micropub.rocks' more-stringent auth requirements
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martymcguire[m] i am thinking about making a second piece of middleware that is like "flask-micropub-proxy" or similar.
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martymcguire[m] since a micropub client basically just submits a form and the backend might do a little bit of processing before passing along a bunch of standard stuff, handling uploads, etc. it's that bit that i want to extract if possible.
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martymcguire[m] i should finish one of them before i try making it generic
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martymcguire[m] i have this mental image of eventually having a bunch of pieces of common flask-micropub-* bits that can be cobbled together to quickly build interesting and strange one-off micropub clients
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Loqi [indieweb] "Retweeted this tweet: ␛ on Twitter: “haha this explains perfectly why anything but an open web is silly https://t.co/vFFSpS3ecT #indieweb”" by Scott Kingery on 2017-03-15 http://techlifeweb.com/15701-2/
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@BillSeitz Fixed the IndieWeb rel-me tag on my WikiLog. (twitter.com/_/status/841841932557004800)
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@megarush1024 Nope, that didn't work. So here's the whole thing. The power and flexibility of the #indieweb. http://www.arush.io/?p=43665 (twitter.com/_/status/841850054403096577)
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@BillSeitz Ended up also adding h-card, h-entry, h-feed. #IndieWeb https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/841841932557004800 (twitter.com/_/status/841865685810704390)
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GWG arush: Are you suggesting that you want the Syndication Links feature to hide the links on a per post basis?
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arush gwg: Something like that. Have a default setting, but when you change the value in the meta box on the add new post screen, the plugin should honor that request. Although I probably should have given that longer a post a title instead. :)
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GWG arush: https://github.com/dshanske/syndication-links/issues/49
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@vielmetti @BillSeitz When you say IndieWeb, what do you mean ? (twitter.com/_/status/841866838556475392)
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arush gwg: OK I will look at this. I really need to go ahead and fork these plugins so I can help fix some accessibility issues lol.
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GWG arush: I welcome the help. At some point, maybe you can teach me what to look for.
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GWG But the link is just my opening an issue re what you suggested.
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@BillSeitz @vielmetti trying to follow patterns/protocols, see http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/841867247895384065)
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arush gwg: There's a getting started guide that the W3C hosts because they're responsible for the web content accessibility guidelines. Hang on and I'll find the link.
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arush gwg: here you go: https://www.w3.org/WAI/gettingstarted/
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GWG arush: Sometimes, as a hobbyist, I'm happy my code works at all. But I will be reading that.
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arush gwg: I know that feeling.
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GWG arush: I've gotten better
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GWG arush: But still have much more to learn.
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arush gwg: Having much more to learn is true for all of us regarding code I think.
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GWG arush: I am surprised at how much I've learned about the pingbacks and trackbacks code and stuff related.
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arush gwg: That's a part of WordPress I haven't done much with, so I'm learning that as well.
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GWG arush: Tell me if I can help
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arush gwg: will definitely do.
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jeremycherfas Good morning
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Loqi *yawn*
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[kevinmarks] Morning
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sknebel morning!
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@krautsource @jkphl @indiewebcamp yes, ordered Ticket and organized travel and stay (twitter.com/_/status/841987386800246785)
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@jkphl @krautsource Yay! \o/ +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/841993500971433989)
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aaronpk PSA: Today is the last day app.net is online! export your data if you haven't already!
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cweiske I wonder when that is said about github
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aaronpk probably not for a long time
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aaronpk github has a lot of actual paying customers
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jeremycherfas Aaronpk: Given how much trouble people are having getting their data, and the backlog, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if app.net stays up until all requests are delivered.
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jeremycherfas The front page is still offering sign-ups!
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aaronpk really? my export arrived in about a minute
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aaronpk it's unfortunately just a bunch of JSON files, so not super easy to actually see what's in it
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aaronpk luckily I never posted directly to app.net, it was always a syndicated copy from my website
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jeremycherfas Many people still waiting after days.
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jeremycherfas In that case, why do you need it?
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aaronpk just wanted to see what was in it
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jeremycherfas :)
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aaronpk oh hey... actually right at the beginning I did make some posts directly on app.net, mostly just talking about the website, and replying to a few people.
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aaronpk they wouldn't make sense imported directly into my website, without also adding some sort of context of where they are directed
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jeremycherfas Worth having then.
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aaronpk which, interestingly, is the same struggle I have when POSSEing to IRC (or in the future Slack)
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/25/11/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] This post looks out of context on my site, but it's syndicated to #indiewebcamp on Freenode because I clicked that button in my posting interface....
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aaronpk when the message is directed at a specific community, how can I indicate that on my website
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jeremycherfas I want to implement that Receiver a response thing on my Grav site eventually.
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sknebel couldn't you show that similar to "in reply to"?
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sknebel "addressed at"?
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aaronpk yeah i think that would look fine
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aaronpk i think i might already do that for private messages actually
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aaronpk ah my old site did that
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/images/thumb/7/77/p3k-private-post.png/450px-p3k-private-post.png
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[kevinmarks] Is that a special case that you could now do with pinned tag posts?
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aaronpk not really, this is a per-post thing
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[kevinmarks] Ah, so like a tag driven strapline? Could that be a p-summary of the pinned post?
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aaronpk i think "context" is the right way to think about it
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aaronpk like reply context, but for the post
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aaronpk post context?
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@hs0ucy https://App.net/ is another #silo who is shutting down... Join the #IndieWeb. Via Aaron Parecki. (http://hugo.soucy.cc/note/2017/03/appnet-is-another-silo-who-is-shutting-down.html) (twitter.com/_/status/842035850217181187)
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snarfed just as devil's advocate, you could probably do it just by special-casing posts with specific syndication link formats
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aaronpk it's a presentation issue for me mostly
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snarfed right
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KartikPrabhu if it is presentation, then you could reuse the reply-context presentation
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 21 hours, 31 minutes ago: what do you think of https://twitter.com/lionzan/status/839509775327047680 as a possible example of how to POSSE a marginalia post to Twitter?
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KartikPrabhu !tell tantek re: POSSE of marginalia to Twitter, that does seem like a good workaround
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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benwerd Hello! If you're in SF this evening, please join me at Matter for drinks. http://werd.io/2017/matter-san-francisco-happy-hour
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Loqi Matter San Francisco Happy Hour
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tantek woo hoo!
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Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 34 minutes ago: re: POSSE of marginalia to Twitter, that does seem like a good workaround
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tantek benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 101 karma in this channel (126 overall)
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benwerd Original RSVP page: https://meetmattersfhappyhour.splashthat.com; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/428177480862872/
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KartikPrabhu interesting use of reply to provide alt-text for images on Twitter: https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/842044769706602497
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@chriscoyier Easy way to toggle back and forth between your Grid Layout and fallback layout. https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/C6-LOM1V4AAtYmv.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/842044769706602497)
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petermolnar !tell benwerd you have some spam issues: http://werd.io/2014/dont-keep-your-opinions-to-yourself (I scraped the html and converted it to markdown just to realize the markdown is 850k)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas I’m starting to install the webmentions plugin for Grav CMS by perlkonig. It includes a blacklist “of external links you do *not* wish to notify of mentions”. Are there any sites I should blacklist from the start?
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aaronpk is that blacklisting the webmention discovery step? that's what I do in Telegraph
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aaronpk I avoid attempting to discover the webmention endpoint for a handful of domains that I know don't support it (e.g. twitter.com)
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benwerd petermolnar: I have _huge_ spam issues. Turns out maintaining your own website when you don't have time is hard :|
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Loqi benwerd: petermolnar left you a message 3 minutes ago: you have some spam issues: http://werd.io/2014/dont-keep-your-opinions-to-yourself (I scraped the html and converted it to markdown just to realize the markdown is 850k)
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aaronpk benwerd: solution: turn off local comments? :D
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benwerd aaronpk: yep
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benwerd but there's a bug in my version of KNown - I need to upgrade myself
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aaronpk heh
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benwerd I haven't been able to carve out time to fix my site
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aaronpk i know the feeling
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tantek yeah this is a local comments (classic blog comment spam) problem, nothing to do with webmention
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tantek this is a triage situation, stop the bleeding, turn off local comments
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benwerd right - it's not webmention at all
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benwerd the trick is finding time to maintain
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tantek turning it off = no more maintenance needed
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tantek (of that at least)
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dgold would love to move to .9.2, or the dev branch, of known; but the Like/Repost thing is still there.
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tantek it's abused by spammers much more than anyone makes any useful local comments
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[cleverdevil] Does anyone know if there is a podcast focusing on IndieWeb and related topics?
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benwerd but my version has a bug where you can't turn it off :|
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tantek wat
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aaronpk ?
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benwerd right - which is why I need to upgrade
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tantek cleverdevil YES!
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benwerd it's obviously my own fault, but ugh
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benwerd wait what?
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benwerd which podcast is that?
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aaronpk https://martymcgui.re/tag/this-week-indieweb-podcast/
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jeremycherfas Aaronpk: There are actually two blacklists, one for external links you do not wish to noitfy of webmentions and the other for senders you do not wish to receive notifications from.
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tantek what is podcasts about the indieweb?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "podcasts about the indieweb" yet. Would you like to create it?
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jeremycherfas Cleverdevil: Not yet, but Chrisaldrich and I have started talking about it.
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tantek podcasts about the indieweb are just getting started, check out https://martymcgui.re/tag/this-week-indieweb-podcast/ for starters!
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Loqi ok
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[cleverdevil] I was actually thinking of starting one myself, good to see that there's one already going ?
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[cleverdevil] I'd be happy to pitch in, jeremycherfas.
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jeremycherfas Cleverdevil: Please do. And I’m sure chrisaldrich would agree that it would be great to have you as a guest when we get going.
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[cleverdevil] Chris lives / works nearby me in LA, so I could perhaps even carve out some time and space in my office for recording.
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aaronpk ooh nice
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jeremycherfas He and I are due to talk soon. I’ll mention it.
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[cleverdevil] Cool ?
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aaronpk i might have to specifically call out podcasts in the newsletter if we start getting more!
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-03-15 http://calagator.org/events/1250471607
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Apr 5, 5:30pm at TBD
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aaronpk that is so fast
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jeremycherfas Aaronpk: one way to do that might be to use the indieweb tag at huffduffer https://huffduffer.com/tags/indieweb
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jeremycherfas Especially if people who come across something to do with indieweb huffduff it and use that tag.
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aaronpk that's not a bad idea
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jeremycherfas There’s automatic RSS for it too.
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tantek cleverdevil, jeremycherfas, chrisaldrich - noted! https://indieweb.org/podcasts_about_the_indieweb
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tantek feel free to update with details :)
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tantek aaronpk: wait what? ": [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-03-15 ... Apr 5"?!?
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tantek which date is it?
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aaronpk 2017-03-15 is the created date
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tantek SMH
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aaronpk i don't think RSS supports events ;-)
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tantek yeah, RSS has failed to be extensible in practice
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tantek literally events for RSS were discussed at the same Foo Camp where I proposed hCalendar
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tantek 2004
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[cleverdevil] So, I am logged into the wiki, how do I "claim" that template page?
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[cleverdevil] https://indieweb.org/User:Cleverdevil.io
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tantek you click the red link and create it!
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tantek what is wikify?
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indieweb.org/wikify
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[cleverdevil] Cool.
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[cleverdevil] Should I have it link to my User page instead?
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[cleverdevil] Nevermind, I'll RTFW ?
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tantek :)
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tantek benwerd, any reason not to link "Also on..." to Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/428177480862872/ on http://werd.io/2017/matter-san-francisco-happy-hour ?
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[cleverdevil] Thanks for that link tantek. I've now got my User page cleaned up and my template page set up properly.
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[cleverdevil] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 208 karma in this channel (322 overall)
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tantek !tell adactio Is Brighton on for HWC first Wednesday of April like PDX? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek cleverdevil++ nice work!
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Loqi cleverdevil has 9 karma in this channel (10 overall)
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martymcguire[m] i missed all the podcast discussion! adding "podcast" to the list of my notification words. :}
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dgold has sucessfully rewritten mapycka's App.Net idno/Known plugin for pnut.io
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dgold https://github.com/dg01d/KnownPnut -- does status posts, articles and even Photos
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Loqi https://status.github.com/
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[chrisaldrich] dgold++
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Loqi dgold has 4 karma in this channel (5 overall)
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[chrisaldrich] though, now I'd need a pnut account...
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[chrisaldrich] what is pnut
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Loqi pnut is a short-messaging social network silo in which messages have a limited length, and you can follow folks, and be followed by folks https://indieweb.org/pnut
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dgold My code skills aren't up to the Coding Standards, mind
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tantek yeah martymcguire you've inspired a whole page ;)
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dgold [chrisaldrich]: if you want an invite, I can set you up the bomb
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tantek what are podcasts about the indie web?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "podcasts about the indie web" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] pnut << https://github.com/dg01d/KnownPnut
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Loqi ok, I added "[[https:/[[github]].com[[dg]]01d[[KnownPnut]]]]" to the "See Also" section of /pnut
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tantek what are podcasts about the indieweb
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Loqi podcasts about the indieweb are podcasts that discuss indie web topics, check out https://martymcgui.re/tag/this-week-indieweb-podcast/ for starters! https://indieweb.org/podcasts_about_the_indieweb
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tantek :D
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tantek podcasts about the indie web are [[podcasts about the indieweb]]
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Loqi ok
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dgold its odd watching ADN die
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[chrisaldrich] checck to see if podcasts are on the /news page
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dgold the Global stream is readable for the first time in years...
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tantek due to contraction?
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[chrisaldrich] dgold, I'd appreciate one for pnut if you have them.
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martymcguire[m] :D
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snarfed jeremycherfas: re webmention blacklist, feel free to reuse https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/domain_blacklist.txt
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jeremycherfas Dgold++
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Loqi dgold has 5 karma in this channel (6 overall)
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jeremycherfas Dgold: Even without filtering by nice.social?
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jeremycherfas Thanks snarfed. Having trouble troubleshooting :(
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[chrisaldrich] jeremycherfas: did you turn on webmentions on your grav already? I got one yesterday, but perhaps you sent it by hand?
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[chrisaldrich] jeremycherfas and yes, tomorrow morning or the following (CET) is fine to continue our discussion.
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jeremycherfas Chrisalrich: I sent that one by hand.
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jeremycherfas Sorry. Typo.
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jeremycherfas Which would you prefer? Tomorrow works better for me.
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[chrisaldrich] tomorrow it is then; I'm up all night, so tell me what time works best for you.
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jeremycherfas Could someone please send a webmention to https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/testing-sending-webmentions I am trying to get the Grav plugin to work.
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Loqi Sorry, I don't see you. on https://indieweb.org/irc-people
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Loqi Testing webmentions
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jeremycherfas What is testing webmentions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "testing webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it?
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jeremycherfas Chrisaldrich: How about 8am CET?
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jeremycherfas Loqi: can you send a webmention to jeremycherfas.net
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[chrisaldrich] jeremycherfas: 8am works; I sent you a webmention; and you should be aware of https://webmention.rocks/
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aaronpk webmention.rocks can send you a webmention!
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jeremycherfas Thanks both. Talk to you tomorrow chrisaldrich
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dgold :) the github for the domain blacklist reports itself as Portugese in Chrome.
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[chrisaldrich] What is webmention.rocks?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webmention.rocks" yet. Would you like to create it?
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jeremycherfas Snarfed: may be a problem with how the plugin advertises the endpoint. Trying to fix that now.
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[chrisaldrich] I just put it ^^ into /Webmention-developer. Is there a reason it wasn't listed??
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[chrisaldrich] Webmention.rocks is a validator to help you test your [[Webmention]] implementation. Several kinds of tests are available.
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk !tell adactio can you put "u-audio" on the <audio> tag on huffduffer?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[chrisaldrich] +1 for u-audio on huffduffer
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[chrisaldrich] Huffduffer++ for general web awesomeness btw
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Loqi huffduffer has 6 karma
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[kevinmarks] Huffduffer apparently supports xspf
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aaronpk what is XSPF?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "XSPF" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk do I want to know?
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adactio Done. Huffduffer now has u-audio on the audio elements.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 3 weeks, 6 days ago: any plans for HWC Brighton either 2017-02-22 or 2017-03-08?
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 38 minutes ago: Is Brighton on for HWC first Wednesday of April like PDX? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi adactio: aaronpk left you a message 6 minutes ago: can you put "u-audio" on the <audio> tag on huffduffer?
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aaronpk wow
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aaronpk adactio++
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Loqi adactio has 32 karma in this channel (35 overall)
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aaronpk well now i have no excuse not to add a podcast section to the newsletter
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aaronpk hm what happens if i include an <audio> tag in the email newsletter
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tantek aaronpk, does this mean that Huffduffer has everything needed for an h-feed podcast?
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aaronpk it does
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martymcguire[m] mailchimp seems to think that only Apple Mail support <audio> tags in emails http://kb.mailchimp.com/campaigns/design/limitations-of-html-email
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aaronpk https://huffduffer.com/tags/indieweb is now basically an indieweb podcast h-feed
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tantek what is podcasts about
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tantek why is Loqi ignoring that ^^^?
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aaronpk i think "about" is a stopword
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tantek what is podcasts about the indieweb?
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Loqi podcasts about the indieweb are podcasts that discuss indie web topics, check out https://martymcgui.re/tag/this-week-indieweb-podcast/ for starters! https://indieweb.org/podcasts_about_the_indieweb
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tantek nope
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tantek what is videos about
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tantek what is posts about
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is that abou9t
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "that abou9t" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek lol
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aaronpk if any of these prepositions is the last word of the sentence then Loqi ignores it https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/31f12cfa4e4bcbf0ceaa00bcc1b19ad0
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tantek what is Loqi up to?
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aaronpk that helped cut down on false positives
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martymcguire[m] hmm, the h-feed "name" on huffduffer appears to be a mashup of all the text on the page.
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tantek what is up with that?
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tantek lol
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aaronpk implied name
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aaronpk back to haunt us again
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tantek pretty sure we have proposals to fix that already
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tantek and just waiting for feedback / implementation
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aaronpk i can't find it
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aaronpk http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming ?
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Loqi microformats2 parsing brainstorming
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aaronpk ah on "issues" http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#implied_properties_when_an_explicit_class_is_provided
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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tantek yes because it's an issue, not a brainstorm for a new feature etc
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tantek going to dev
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[chrisaldrich] Was there ever a standardized way to spell indieweb? Is it CamelCase or not? Two words or one? IndieWeb, Indieweb, or Indie Web? I've seen it so many ways it's starting to bother me now.
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aaronpk what is style guide?
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Loqi This style guide is a set of recommendations when using indieweb terminology https://indieweb.org/style-guide
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ben_thatmustbeme i prefer to use InDIE_weB
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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[chrisaldrich] or should we follow the AP style guide and just make it so ubiquitous like the internet that it should be indieweb?!
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tantek it's been evolving chrisaldrich
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tantek also different in prose vs urls etc
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aaronpk it's been evolving, and that page is meant to capture the current usage
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tantek one word, per the hashtag #indieweb (and this channel name)
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tantek is becoming pretty typical
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tantek camelcased for proper nouns like camps etc.
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[kevinmarks] The h-feed backcompat proposal was specifically for wordpress
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[kevinmarks] If you include <audio> in the newsletter you might want to disable preload
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[chrisaldrich] What is indieweb EPK?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb EPK" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] indieweb EPK is [[press-kit]]
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Loqi ok
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[chrisaldrich] press-kit << [[style-guide]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[[[style-guide]]]]" to the "See Also" section of /press-kit
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jeremycherfas Chrisaldrich: Snarfed: I need to try and debug this on a local copy. I’m hoping that voxpelli’s node-webmention-testpinger will help, if I can figure out out to use it.
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ [[[[???]]]
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aaronpk heh
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[chrisaldrich] What is [[[[]]]]?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "[[[[]]]]" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] ?
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aaronpk oh no
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Screech - a micropub client for podcasting" https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/14/183924/
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@100daysindieweb Day 85: Added Podcasts to the IndieWeb this-week Newsletter #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/15/6/day-85-podcasts (twitter.com/_/status/842087314805338112)
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[kevinmarks] So if I talk indieweb on TWiG I should huffduff it?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Day 85: Added Podcasts to the IndieWeb this-week Newsletter #100DaysOfIndieWeb" on 2017-03-15
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aaronpk bonus points for huffduffing a link with a media fragment
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[kevinmarks] Ooh, good idea.
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[kevinmarks] Though they are usually video. I'd have to use snarfed's video to MP3 trick first, then huffduff it again manually
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aaronpk Ah well you can just post them to indie news then
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[chrisaldrich] use a media fragment if you can (though some of us will listen to the entire episode anyway)
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[cleverdevil] Sounds like we're gonna be providing a monthly home for HBWC in PDX, aaronpk ?
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aaronpk \o/
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[chrisaldrich] As App.net shuts down today, I saw this post on pnut which highlights /why indieweb: https://pnut.io/@jussipekonen/31293#31293
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[chrisaldrich] DreamHost++
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Loqi dreamhost has 3 karma
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GWG Afternoon
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@ChrisAldrich #Podcasting goes #indieweb with a #micropub client called Screech!! #FTW If only @SoundCloud et al could do this... https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/14/183924 (twitter.com/_/status/842100205315076096)
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Loqi [indieweb] "#Podcasting goes #indieweb with a #micropub client called Screech!! #FTW If only @SoundCloud et al could do this... https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/14/183924" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-03-15 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/podcasting-goes-indieweb-with-a-micropub-client-called-screech-ftw
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dgold gitlab have acquired gitter.im
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dgold and say they're going to open source it
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[cleverdevil] I saw that. Pretty interesting!
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@TerminalPixel Day 71 of #100DaysOfCode: Improved the handling of photos, reposts and reply syndication on my #indieweb site (twitter.com/_/status/842115665129426944)
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tantek whoa Screech?
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tantek What is Screech?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Screech" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek martymcguire ^^^
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martymcguire[m] Screech is a [[micropub]] client for publishing audio content such as podcasts.
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove martymcguire[m]: Did you catch my note about Skeleton?
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martymcguire[m] gRegorLove: yep, thanks! i won't hold out hope that the util-* change gets merged. I suppose I should make my own fork if I want to keep using it.
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martymcguire[m] i noticed on the /Skeleton page that you listed yourself as using it. have you replaced it with something else?
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gRegorLove I was looking through the github thread and the number of forks has grown
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gRegorLove I'm still using it. I made the util-* update locally, but still have old posts with the u-*
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gRegorLove It's OK for now. I'll probably move away from it eventually.
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martymcguire[m] I like that I was able to read through the whole of the documentation, and the stylesheet itself, in about 10 minutes and understand it all.
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@schmarty Screech - a micropub client for podcasting. #indieweb https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/14/183924/ (twitter.com/_/status/842129129575178252)
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