#indieweb 2017-03-31

2017-03-31 UTC
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snarfed [acegiak_net]: ah thanks for the nudge! will do. it definitely still works fine; many of us here use it.
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[acegiak_net] I'm guessing there's no way to get embedded videos into the stream?
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snarfed afaik they're there
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snarfed same with the other *-atom services (links at bottom)
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[acegiak_net] not for me?
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snarfed nm you're right, not for twitter
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[acegiak_net] I wouldn't be surprised if twitter didn't serve them over the api
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snarfed feel free to subscribe to https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/103
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snarfed nah the API returns usable links to them
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snarfed confirmed that https://instagram-atom.appspot.com/ has them
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snarfed i believe https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ too; will check
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tantek kevinmarks, too bad she posted that on FB? I mean, irony much?
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@100daysindieweb Day 100: A Website for my 100 Days of Music #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/30/10/day-100-website-for-100-days-of-music (twitter.com/_/status/847601902099374080)
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tantek aaronpk++ congrats! \o/ on 100.aaronparecki!
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Loqi aaronpk has 481 karma in this channel (1260 overall)
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martymcguire[m] aaronpk++ woohoo! congrats! what a project!
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Loqi aaronpk has 482 karma in this channel (1261 overall)
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Loqi woot
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aaronpk *whew*
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snarfed emoji subdomain ahhhh so cool
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snarfed (would be even cooler if it served :P)
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tantek goes back to trying to catch up on his meager 100DoPP ?
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aaronpk The emoji subdomain should be active!
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snarfed oh i mean if it served instead of redirected
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aaronpk oh haha
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Loqi aaronpk: lol
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miklb https://twitter.com/upcomingorg/status/847611266675785732
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@upcomingorg Hello again, world. https://upcoming.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/847611266675785732)
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@kevinmarks @rfrost Here you go http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/day-7-to-amp-or-not-to-amp-100daysofindieweb (twitter.com/_/status/847620623597674496)
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aaronpk i just realized that my site has worked the way the new twitter @-replies work for quite some time
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aaronpk i don't usually @-mention someone in a reply, but also I don't push those replies to my home page
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@keithjgrant @kentcdodds A few pieces of tech the @SocialWebWG is speccing out :) http://keithjgrant.com/posts/2017/01/hello-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/847631115070328832)
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GWG I have returned
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miklb sounds the horns
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GWG miklb: Thank you
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-03-31.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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gRegorLove I really liked benwerd's revised text on the last HWC's FB page so I borrowed it: https://gregorlove.com/2017/04/homebrew-website-club/
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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[cleverdevil] Evening, IndieWeb.
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[cleverdevil] Making myself a fresh whiskey sour, and thinking I might need to go ahead and write a little Known plugin for tracking my drinks, inspired by aaronpk.
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gRegorLove Howdy, [cleverdevil]
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gRegorLove Putting the pub in micropub.
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[cleverdevil] cracks his knuckles.
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aaronpk mmm
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aaronpk if you do that I can help with the Micropub integration so you can use Teacup!
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[cleverdevil] Yes yes that would be amazing.
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[cleverdevil] My PHP isn't the best. I've been a Python programmer forever, but PHP is still a throwback for me!
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[cleverdevil] That said, modern PHP is so vastly different (and better) than what I remember.
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gRegorLove Indeed
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aaronpk Very much
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miklb GWG didn't you make a checkin plugin for WP?
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GWG miklb: I made a location plugin
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GWG Checkins is still on the list
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miklb ah. Are the locations a CPT or taxonomy w/ meta?
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GWG miklb: Venues are a taxonomy with meta. But I haven't finished building it.
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miklb I'm building something unrelated to IW and was curious how you did your venues. I've been waffling on whether they should be a CPT or tax.
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miklb not 100% unrelated, I do intend to build in mf2 so I can eventually use webmentions on the site
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GWG miklb, I thought about it. Think of a venue as an archive page.
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GWG It seemed better than a CPT
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GWG Or having a CPT to Taxonomy relationship
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miklb I'm building a live music calendar, so yeah, wasn't sure if I should do a post2post relationship or use a taxonomy for the venues
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GWG Of course, I have not built it yet
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[cleverdevil] So, there's not really a microformat for a drink log...
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[cleverdevil] I guess I could copy what aaronpk is doing?
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[cleverdevil] Or I could use h-entry.
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gRegorLove What is Teacup?
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Loqi Teacup is a Micropub client for posting various types of food posts to any server supporting Micropub https://indieweb.org/Teacup
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[cleverdevil] Ah, it looks like h-entry is the best thing.
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[cleverdevil] That's what I'll do.
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gRegorLove Teacub is using h-food it looks like
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gRegorLove "The parameter named ate or drank will include an h-food object corresponding to the item you tapped."
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gRegorLove Example: ate[type]=h-food&ate[properties][name]=Coffee
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[cleverdevil] interesting.
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[cleverdevil] I suppose I'll use both, then?
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[cleverdevil] h-food doesn't seem to be documented on microformats.org
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gRegorLove Yeah, it's experimental. I'm hazy on it, but I think current practice would be h-x-food to indicate it's experimental? Either way, I'm not aware of any consumers (no pun intended)
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[cleverdevil] ?
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[cleverdevil] I'll give it a crack and ask for critique afterward.
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gRegorLove I think h-entry is a fine fallback though
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... now that I'm already into this, I am thinking I may want to change this from a Drinks plugin to a Food plugin.
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[cleverdevil] Give people option of "ate" and "drank," more like what aaronpk is doing...
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I'm gonna do that.
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aaronpk In teacup the post is still an h-entry it just also has a property "ate" or "drank"
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aaronpk i do that so that in p3k I render a new chunk of the post
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gRegorLove Ahh
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gRegorLove [cleverdevil]: You can try Teacup without having micropub set up. It just posts it on your Teacup profile instead
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[cleverdevil] That thing where you get 50% of the way there only to realize you want to do it differently.
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[cleverdevil] ?
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GWG cleverdevil, by the way, my wish list in WordPress is pretty long.
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[cleverdevil] I figured as much!
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[cleverdevil] Feel free to share as little or as much as you'd like.
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[cleverdevil] Maybe start with the highest priority stuff.
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GWG Well, the question is level, not priority
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, is it worthwhile adding u-bookmark-of on want to watch posts?
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: jeremycherfas left you a message 19 hours, 58 minutes ago: I can’t get in to a talk page on https://indieweb.org/academic_samizdat but wanted to know how you would feel about including Sci-Hub as an example of the response to academic publisher lock-in.
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gRegorLove Hmm. I'm not sure. I haven't explored the want-to-consume vs bookmark distinctions
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gRegorLove What is bookmark?
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indieweb.org/bookmark
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GWG For example, there is a blessed task for custom comment types which would, if implemented, really help with new types of responses in WordPress.
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GWG So, it is a building block, not a feature in itself.
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gRegorLove Haha "Why should you post bookmark posts? Good question. People seem to have reasons for doing so. (please feel free to replace this rhetorical question with actual reasoning)"
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Loqi nice
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gRegorLove [chrisaldrich]: Are you using u-bookmark-of? Why / why not?
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[chrisaldrich] !tell jeremycherfas, I've got that and a few other similar examples I want to add, but haven't had the time. Feel free to expand on that page as you see fit. I just noticed http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/profhacker/find-open-access-articles-faster-with-unpaywall/63793 yesterday myself
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[chrisaldrich] gregorlove, I'm not yet, but now that I've seen you doing it, it's become an itch and it was the first thing I thought of when I just saw your post.
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gRegorLove /bookmark has an example of exactly that, u-bookmark-of h-cite. It probably makes sense when there's a URL.
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[chrisaldrich] In some sense I'm think of a day when sites like imdb.com post webmentions of "want to watch" posts versus "watched" posts. The aggregate data could be very interesting.
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[chrisaldrich] I was looking at https://trakt.tv/ earlier today and thinking it would be fun to talk them into supporting micropub....
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gRegorLove Updated: https://gregorlove.com/2017/03/want-to-watch-travelers-recommended/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Want to watch: Travelers Recommended by @jdragz
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gRegorLove I could potentially query all u-bookmark-of posts and then filter by "want to watch" "want to read" etc.
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[cleverdevil] That's a great idea, chrisaldrich.
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[cleverdevil] Trakt also links up with things like Plex.
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[cleverdevil] IIRC.
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gRegorLove What is trakt.tv?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trakt.tv" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, that's another thing I was considering, particularly since I don't see any tags/categories on your site.
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gRegorLove What is Plex?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Plex" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove I have tags, but use them very minimally so far. Mostly on event posts, for the bands I saw. The idea was once I get a more complete concert history, I can see how many times I've seen X band.
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gRegorLove I basically try a lot of different post types in my notes stream, with the idea I can put them in streams later as necessary :)
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[chrisaldrich] trakt.tv is a [[silo]] service to automatically track what you're [[watch|watching]].
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Loqi ok
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[chrisaldrich] One of the benefits of sites like GoodReads is not only the reviews of what people already read, but becoming aware of what they want to read. A similar concept for tv/film would be pretty cool.
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, speaking of which, I think I owe you some GoodRead related ideas; I just haven't had a chance to plot out some of my thoughts as well as I would like
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gRegorLove Agreed. I haven't done this as much lately, but I used to scroll through the stream of my friends and find quite a few interesting-looking books, added them to my list.
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[chrisaldrich] I noticed that trakt.tv uses the verb scrobble to send what you're watching to their service.
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[chrisaldrich] I've only ever heard it in relation to /listen contexts, but it could make sense for other passive posts like watching and reading.
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[chrisaldrich] How nice would it be if the Kindle could scrobble my reading activity to my site....
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[chrisaldrich] cleverdevil Have you started on that Known plugin you mentioned the other day?
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/2017/whiskey-sour
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[cleverdevil] How's that markup?
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[chrisaldrich] My first thought was how frothy that whiskey sour looked. Is there a shaken egg in there? ?
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[cleverdevil] http://share.cleverdevil.io/mDkgaFU0hw.png
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[cleverdevil] http://share.cleverdevil.io/rNJQ45CTK6.png
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[cleverdevil] (I cheated and found an image on Google images... mine is much less pretty!)
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[cleverdevil] But... I am actually drinking a whiskey sour ?
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[chrisaldrich] My second thought was "what a great home bar set up he has with that built-in metal drip tray".
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[cleverdevil] https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Food
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[chrisaldrich] I was thinking when you mentioned it that food/drink and post types like watch/listen/read are all relatively similar and might be built into the same plugin the way KnownReactions did for likes/reposts
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[cleverdevil] !tell aaronpk take a look at my Food/Drink plugin for Known and let me know what you think - https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Food - see a sample post at - https://cleverdevil.io/2017/whiskey-sour
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[chrisaldrich] You had inspired me the other day to upgrade to the master branch of Known, but I haven't had time yet. Noticed any issues with other plugins yet?
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I think that's likely true, chrisaldrich
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[cleverdevil] They're all pretty similar.
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[cleverdevil] I had a relatively smooth upgrade.
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[chrisaldrich] and many don't really have very specific microformats, if any at all.
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[chrisaldrich] I also want to export a lot of old data from a prior hosted Known site and roll it up into my self-hosted version, but never had the patience for it. I think the current branch has the ability built in now.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, it has a lot more import/export stuff.
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, I could easily imagine subscribing to specific want to read/want to watch feeds of a few friends... It could be a must have feature in the academic world.
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[chrisaldrich] I was just noticing a lot of Dublin Core material in Known just now too. Not sure how I hadn't seen it before.
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[chrisaldrich] What is Dublin core?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Dublin core" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] Dublin core is an open organization supporting innovation in metadata design and best practices across the metadata ecology.
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Loqi ok
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[cleverdevil] Okay, time for me to hit the sack.
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[cleverdevil] Good night IndieWeb!
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Loqi gute nacht!
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[chrisaldrich] later Jonathan!
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[chrisaldrich] [[metadata]] << [[Dublin core]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Dublin core]]" to the "See Also" section of /metadata
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gRegorLove What is sticker comment?
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Loqi a sticker comment is what a sticker reply looks like in the context of the original post that it is in reply to https://indieweb.org/sticker_comment
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gRegorLove What is sticker reply?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sticker reply" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove What is sticker?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sticker" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove [chrisaldrich]: Yeah, that'd be cool
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tantek chrisaldrich do you know anything that actually consumes Dublin core?
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tantek There's scant evidence that backs up the "best practices across the metadata ecology", to be frank
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tantek and AFAIK, it Dublin core has zero indieweb utility / usefulness
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tantek I don't know for what purpose it is in Known default templates
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jihaisse renewal
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[chrisaldrich] tantek: I KNEW that one would wake you up. ?
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tantek chrisaldrich, as a scientist, I have a responsibility to call out exagerations and claims without evidence when they are made
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[chrisaldrich] I've yet to run across anything that consumes it. I have seen it in a few academic circles and recently came across it specifically in the Omeka platform.
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tantek Dublic core is one of the most historically inflated and hyped things in the world of data on the web
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[chrisaldrich] I have a feeling that there are some library science kids who are into it, but I've yet to see a reason why.
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tantek And frankly, as there are supposedly librarian scientists behind it, they are not acting very scientifically about it itself
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tantek over a decade and near zero utility on the web
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tantek but no reduction in self-important claims about it or promoting of it
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tantek Dublin core is pseudo-science at best
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[chrisaldrich] I suspect that Known throws it along with the kitchen sink for the benefit of the academic crowd they're following. I'm curious if BenWerd or the gang could document why they're using it.
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tantek kitchen sink sure
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[chrisaldrich] It's the third time in two days I'd come across it after not having heard anything about it in ~5 years. I may spend some time on their site in the next few days to see if there's a reason why anyone is using it.
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[chrisaldrich] I like your more practical working of that stub page btw....
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tantek chrisaldrich, I'm trying to keep the definitions of pages and such practical and related to indieweb so it makes sense here vs. say Wikipedia
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tantek the only reason I can think of is cargo cult / copy pasta / customers asking for it because they've been marketed to by their social circles
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tantek chrisaldrich, here are some more thoughts and what should and should not be wikified (and how) https://indieweb.org/wikifying#FAQ
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[chrisaldrich] thanks!
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tantek !tell benwerd did RSVP support break on Known event posts? My RSVP just shows up as "yes", and counts as a "comment" apparently. Seems confusing. http://werd.io/2017/homebrew-website-club-april-5-2017
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club: April 5, 2017
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[chrisaldrich] does Google even consume DC, or just the overlap with schema?
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tantek chrisaldrich, I doubt they pay any attention, since DC was advocated for publishing back in the meta keywords days which all turned to spam / or rot
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tantek and Google, when they launched, distinguished themselves by looking at hyperlinks / link text, and IGNORING meta keywords deliberately
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tantek they instantly had better search quality accordingly
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tantek and yet, meta dc crap continues because too many academics fail to question ritual
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[chrisaldrich] Everyone wants to buy the extended warranty, the key is to be the one selling it I suppose...
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tantek selling it, or salesmanship is a mix of communicating availability of things that are wanted, typically mixed with some amount psychological manipulations to motivate sales
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[chrisaldrich] lots of things that really aren't wanted and probably even more that aren't needed are sold sadly
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tantek true, that's often due to advance marketing, convincing people they want or need things that aren't needed
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tantek also psychological manipuations, but detached from (often long in advance of) sales actions
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[dgold] Is that salesmanship, or just a general description of advertising?
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tantek dgold, hence I distinguished marketing from salesmanship, they are discrete acts
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tantek and yes, advertising is one tool of marketing
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Loqi [indieweb] "#100DoPP d70 Congratulations to @aaronpk on completing #100DaysOfIndieWeb and #100daysofmusic! Incredible dedication. Focusing on completing anything every day for 100 days in a row (even just 100 days of positive posts!) is challenging and a useful way to uncover what are the things you do to procastinate a commitment to yourself, even a small commitment. But Aaron went much farther than that, with 100 original music pieces, and 100 quite interesting contributions to the IndieWeb, including work on his own site & tools, and on other sites & tools." on 2017-03-31 http://tantek.com/2017/090/t2/congratulations-100daysofindieweb-100daysofmusic
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@t #100DoPP d70 Congratulations to @aaronpk on completing #100DaysOfIndieWeb and #100daysofmusic! Incredible ... http://tantek.com/2017/090/t2 (twitter.com/_/status/847718347818942465)
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cweiske tantek, you should have linked to the tag pages
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/847649383361396741
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@MazMHussain Hopefully Twitter makes itself unusable enough soon that we all gain the strength to liberate ourselves from it. (twitter.com/_/status/847649383361396741)
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Loqi [indieweb] "You should get on the indieweb, dan ?" on 2017-03-30 http://keithjgrant.com/replies/2017/03/51992/
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@sebastiangreger Wed 5.4. 19:00: 5th Homebrew Website Club Berlin (at Salon Schmück in Kreuzberg, U1/Schlesisches Tor) #indieweb http://sebastiangreger.net/2017/03/homebrew-website-club-berlin-2017-04-05/ (twitter.com/_/status/847792564992434176)
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[kevinmarks] snarfed++ for granary supporting the crazy extended replies already
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Loqi snarfed has 257 karma in this channel (263 overall)
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cweiske what is granary
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Loqi granary is a library and REST API that frees you from social network API chaff and and exposes the sweet social data foodstuff inside as HTML and JSON with microformats2, ActivityStreams, Atom, XML, and more https://indieweb.org/granary
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Loqi [indieweb] "Hey Chris, thanks. Phew - lot to unpack there. Yes, Sempress is in the main repo, however it did not appear on a search for" by Daniel Goldsmith on 2017-03-31 https://hylozoist.ascraeus.org/2017/hey-chris-thanks-phew---lot-to-unpack-there-yes
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "uSit: how far is too far?" http://eddiehinkle.com/article/2017/03/u-sit-how-far-is-too-far.html
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aaronpk olO
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Loqi aaronpk: [cleverdevil] left you a message 10 hours, 16 minutes ago: take a look at my Food/Drink plugin for Known and let me know what you think - https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Food - see a sample post at - https://cleverdevil.io/2017/whiskey-sour
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aaronpk I just googled "webmention fax" and found this
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aaronpk https://apiant.com/connect/GoFax-SMS-to-Webmention.io
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[eddie] Wow.... seriously? Fax to Webmention? I wonder if that actually works
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[eddie] That’s crazy what things people put together
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aaronpk cleverdevil++ for the food plugin!
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Loqi cleverdevil has 15 karma in this channel (19 overall)
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tantek cweiske++ yes you're absolutely right. late night omission.
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Loqi cweiske has 72 karma in this channel (83 overall)
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tantek what is a fax
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fax" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk twilio launched a fax API today, and I don't think it's an april fool's joke https://twilio.com/fax
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miklb that might be useful for contacting US elected officials
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miklb they often stop answering the phone, but still accept faxes
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[eddie] ohhh, that’s an interesting use-case miklb!
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snarfed so i've been looking into processing http://commoncrawl.org/ for indieweb stuff, and i ended up on http://webdatacommons.org/structureddata/2016-10/stats/stats.html , and the Top Domains lists there are hilarious
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snarfed moosejaw.com, theclothdiaperwhisperer.com, made-in-china.com
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tantek yay for SEO
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Loqi ?
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tantek snarfed - you'll want the recent update for any23
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tantek which now parses mf2! and they added classic "hentry" (from hAtom) too! (which we have backcompat support for in mf2 parsing, and which is all over nearly every WordPress out there)
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snarfed tantek: i saw! but sadly that group hasn't generated a new extract with any23 yet
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snarfed so i'll still have to do it myself until they get around to it
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tantek I think they may be trying to make sure any23 passes the mf2 tests first
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tantek which is properly thorough and such
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tantek yay got my 100DoPP done for the day before 10am! (not sure when I last pulled that off)
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tantek oh and a 2 photo multi-photo post POSSEs particularly well to Twitter
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tantek really enjoying the increased "indiewebness" of my new photo posting flow
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tantek both with 1 image linking to higher-res photo (instead of IG), and 2 my later IG post including permashortlink to the original (since it's now a manual POSSE after posting on my own site)
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snarfed tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 210 karma in this channel (326 overall)
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tantek small steps snarfed :)
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tantek Swarm++ for photo posting and keeping 1920x1080 resolution originals!
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Loqi swarm has 1 karma
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gRegorLove Salt, strugee: Can we do our call at 4pm Pacific today?
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb.
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aaronpk good morning!
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Loqi good morning
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tantek good morning indeed!
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Salt gRegorLove, 3 would be better for me, my afternoon got kinda busy... I can probably make 4 work if it needs to
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[cleverdevil] After working on my food/drink plugin, I was thinking it might be nice to have a microformat specification for "activities."
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@kevinmarks @marcec here's my AMP bookmarklet http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/day-7-to-amp-or-not-to-amp-100daysofindieweb (twitter.com/_/status/847864608723480578)
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[cleverdevil] For things like logging food/drink, exercises, sleep patterns, etc.
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tantek cleverdevil, the problem is, "activity" is just another abstraction which doesn't actually solve any problems
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tantek it just obfuscates the problem and makes the solution worse
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[cleverdevil] Perhaps?
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tantek (as most abstractions do)
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aaronpk the closest i got to that idea was "metrics", although I ended up dropping that feed on my 2016 site rebuild
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tantek see also class hierarchy hell, Java, etc.
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[cleverdevil] Do you mean that by being too general, it doesn't solve enough problems?
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[cleverdevil] Like, it'd be better to have microformats for specific activities?
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tantek worse, by being too general it doesn't actually do a good job of solving ANY problem, and you still have to solve the problem in the next layer!
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[cleverdevil] Or you just think its not worth it generally.
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aaronpk it's tempting to try to come up with a hierarchy, or classify things, but in practice there wasn't any benefit to me
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tantek this is the fundamental flaw of architecture astronomy
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[cleverdevil] nods
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tantek what is architecture astronomy
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Loqi architecture astronomy is the practice of analyzing problems, seeing patterns, and then generalizing to higher and higher level abstractions on top of those patterns to the point where the abstractions become so general, so vague, so detached from the original problems being analyzed, that they don't mean anything at all https://indieweb.org/architecture_astronomy
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tantek cleverdevil ^^^
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[cleverdevil] I see what you're saying. Then, it just becomes hierarchy and categorization for the sake of it, rather than actually helping anything/
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aaronpk that's why all my posts now are just h-entry and they attach various properties such as food, drink, sleep, exercise, etc
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[cleverdevil] That's helpful, thanks. Good clarification.
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[cleverdevil] h-entry is likely enough!
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tantek cleverdevil, better to just start with plain text "design" of how you want to write such posts, document that, and see if any patterns *emerge*
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tantek document what you end up posting that is, as well as any brainstorms, and distinguish between the two
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tantek you can also start by just using hashtags
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tantek e.g. see /pushup
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tantek BarnabyWalters did that and never found a reason to add any more structure than that
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aaronpk i suspect there won't be much reason to add additional structure to anything until there are consumers that need the extra hints
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[cleverdevil] I've found utility in things like h-recipe and h-review, because it eases syndication of these content types.
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tantek cleverdevil - syndication to where? using what tools?
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[cleverdevil] Sorry, syndication is the wrong word.
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[cleverdevil] *Consumption* of this content by other tools.
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[cleverdevil] For example, I have a nice recipe app that I use on my laptop and iOS devices
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aaronpk Paprika?
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tantek oh! does it consume h-recipe and h-review?
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[cleverdevil] Yup!
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aaronpk what is Paprika
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Loqi Paprika is an OSX and iOS application for creating an organizing recipes for making food, that can import recipes from websites marked up with hRecipe https://indieweb.org/Paprika
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tantek what is Paprika
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Loqi Paprika is an OSX and iOS application for creating an organizing recipes for making food, that can import recipes from websites marked up with hRecipe https://indieweb.org/Paprika
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tantek neat!
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[cleverdevil] My idea is that I can log recipes on my Known site, and then easily import them into Paprika since they're nicely marked up.
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[cleverdevil] (IIRC, it only supports the legacy hRecipe)
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tantek cleverdevil, and yes, once there is a consuming application (even potential / likely), *beyond* just search engines, then it makes more sense to think about structure
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aaronpk don't forget that Pinterest supports h-recipe for their "rich pins"!
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tantek cleverdevil you can publish both h-recipe and backcompat hRecipe in the same markup
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[cleverdevil] The use case I was thinking of potentially was something similar for Day One, which is a journaling app for iOS and macOS.
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tantek cleverdevil - then the way to start there is to get Day One to start to even consume h-entry as is
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tantek before trying to get any more fancy
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[cleverdevil] Agreed.
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[cleverdevil] Eventually, I'd like to be able to compose private (and public) journals in Day One on my iPhone (its a nice app) and have then publish via Micropub to my website.
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[cleverdevil] And I'd like to be able to have Day One consume journal entries from my website as well, and also to embed things like media, checkins, etc., in its local version of my timeline.
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[cleverdevil] But, honestly, its likely just better to rely on my own site.
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tantek yes, Micropub support in Day One would be great
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tantek I agree with using well designed client apps as front ends to get more data into your site
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tantek I think that's still legitimately indieweb, since your use of the tools is as an ephemeral means, not a longterm storage of your data
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aaronpk ^^
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aaronpk exactly that
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tantek ok how do we capture that then?
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snarfed even for storage, using third party services etc is indieweb too
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snarfed (which we've generally agreed on and captured)
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tantek snarfed, what about the kind of image storage I do? e.g. with IG and 4sq?
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snarfed i think "control" is usually a better metric than "ownership"
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tantek *control* is a metric of ownership!
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snarfed but a meaningfully more flexible and reasonable one
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tantek steps back from baiting snarfed with another semantic debate
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snarfed shakes fist
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aaronpk tantek: you don't control the URL of your 4sq photos, they could disappear at any time without any way for you to recover them
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tantek ?
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aaronpk if I were you I would be very nervous about losing those photos
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tantek aaronpk not quite "without any way for you to recover them" - they are all archived within seconds at internet archive
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snarfed debating "ownership" ends up in extreme yak shaving like rolling your own OS, physically buying a server and putting it in a colo, starting your own ISP, etc, which are usually just badly counterproductive nerd snipes
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tantek literally the jpgs are archived
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aaronpk that's why we draw the line at the URL
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tantek snarfed, or in another way, you lose ownership of your time
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snarfed yup
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snarfed aaronpk++ agreed. e.g. storing photos in. IG or swarm vs S3, all are third party services, but you have arguably a bit more control if they're in a service like S3
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Loqi aaronpk has 483 karma in this channel (1262 overall)
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snarfed and yes definitely, domain is the single linchpin point of control
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tantek snarfed, and there's the time trade-off - cost of time to use IG/Swarm for image hosting is less than setting up / managing S3
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snarfed yup! trades off time/effort for control/risk. those choices are all personal.
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tantek aaronpk, forget losing photos, IG has already changed their image storage URLs several times and broken images, and I sometimes go back and fix them
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aaronpk of course even if use use S3 you want to have backups, so you could argue that tantek using the internet archive as a backup service for his fsq photos
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snarfed but they're also why i love movements like unhosted, which let you use good third party apps but still store your data in your *own* amazon or google account
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aaronpk tantek: that doesn't surprise me at all! I was actually curious if you had had that happen yet
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snarfed takes a breath
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aaronpk that happened to me a lot with peoples' profile pictures, so that's why I started archiving those myself for all the comments that I show on my site
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tantek aaronpk: yeah makes sense
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tantek I figure I've saved enough data to script-fix it in the future
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tantek e.g. IG permalink -> rediscover new image storage URL, update post
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tantek or if (when?) I switch to S3 or other image storage, copy and update them all
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sknebel doesn't the IA make anything covered by a robots.txt inaccessible through the entire history? So if a silo once sets a robots.txt. blocking the images they are "gone"
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tantek it's a future batch task like importing archives
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M-mxuribe snarfed+1 for that unhosted note! ;-)
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tantek sknebel not sure that's ever happened
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gRegorLove Salt: 3 works for me
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sknebel not sure either, the cases it's mostly become visible where after sites shut down (but of course that's when people pay the most attention to what's archived and what's not)
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Salt gRegorLove, excellent, I've pinged strugee
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sknebel (one of the reasons I want to get my own archiving set up... because especially with hobby-type sites, when they go offline the domain gets into some domain parking thing, that has a robots.txt blocking all and *poof*, the archive.org copy is gone as well
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tantek sknebel and when a site shutsdown or the domain stops responding, so does the robots.txt that blocks the images. They're never "gone", they're just not served while there's a *live* robots.txt blocking them.
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tantek the IA always archives them regardless of robots.txt
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tantek domainparking-- yeah
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Loqi domainparking has -1 karma
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sknebel oh, it just uses the *current
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sknebel robots.txt?
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sknebel that makes it a bit more stable for silos
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tantek right
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[cleverdevil] FYI, just did a checkin with a photo attached in Swarm, aaronpk, and it syndicated to my site, but the photo doesn't show up.
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/2017/checked-into-seaside-torrance-2
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Loqi [Jonathan LaCour] Checked into Seaside Torrance Working from home on this beautiful Friday....
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: you may have hit the case where your photo wasn't part of the checkin initially
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/23/12/day-93-ownyourswarm-photos
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Day 93: Polling for Photos in OwnYourSwarm #100DaysOfIndieWeb
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[cleverdevil] Ah, interesting.
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[cleverdevil] If I delete the post from my site and then force it to publish again from OYS, will it show up?
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aaronpk yes!
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aaronpk wait maybe
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aaronpk oh yeah, click the "delete" button on OYS first
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[cleverdevil] K
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aaronpk oh funny, looking at the logs, I see an error, Known thought the micropub post was empty!
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aaronpk it's kinda awkward, you have to find the swarm checkin ID to use the delete and import buttons on OYS. if it's your latest checkin, it will be on the dashboard tho
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[cleverdevil] Yup, that worked. Thanks!
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aaronpk yay
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Indieweb Test" http://mxuribe.com/posts/indieweb-test/
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@mxuribe A test of Indieweb-related functionality http://mxuribe.com/posts/indieweb-test/ (twitter.com/_/status/847877025360752644)
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M-mxuribe Hmmm...sorry i didn;'t know indie news posted here. sorry for any spam-like stuff appearing here.
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aaronpk haha nice
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M-mxuribe but it has helped, since i noticed my avatar differs between my domain and twitter...next tough decision: which avatar to use photo or generic icon that i've used for years?
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk if you want something you don't have to worry about spamming, you can always try to get comments to appear on the https://webmention.rocks tests
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M-mxuribe aaronpk: cool, thanks!
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk: does OYS require the swarmapp permalink or the foursquare permalink to PESOS prior checkins? Or will it accept either? It's not clear on the page.
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[aaronpk] It requires the Foursquare/Swarm Check-in ID
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[aaronpk] Which is in the Swarm URL
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[aaronpk] Checkins don't have a URL on foursquare.com anymore right?
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[chrisaldrich] They still get foursquare URL's but you have to dig for them. They're hiding in your profile under "history"
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[chrisaldrich] this example post from last week has the syndication links for both: http://boffosocko.com/2017/03/23/checkin-lacy-park/
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] Checkin Lacy Park http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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[aaronpk] Looks like the ID is in both urls
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[chrisaldrich] Oops, my quick reading had me inputting the full URL rather than just the ID...
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[aaronpk] I should just make it work with either
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Loqi +1
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Webmention for ProcessWire Update" https://gregorlove.com/2017/03/webmention-for-processwire-update/
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@grantcodes Day 81 of #100DaysOfCode: Updated my #indieweb like feed. So many embeded animals ? https://grant.codes/likes (twitter.com/_/status/847888645629628417)
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aaronpk hm, i think i'm going to add some filtering rules to have only certain checkins appear on my home page
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aaronpk i think the rule will be show it on the home page only if i've added content to it, like text or a photo
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tantek you could also have a #public hashtag
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aaronpk this doesn't have anything to do with being public tho
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tantek or # friendsonly etc.
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tantek and maybe if the checkin does NOT start or end with "Post."
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aaronpk just enabled the filter. we'll see how it feels. all my checkins are public on https://aaronparecki.com/checkins still, but now only "interesting" ones will appear on my home page
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[eddie] That makes a lot of sense. It’s a bit more manual, but I wanted to be able to highlight anything on my homepage, but definitely only wanted interesting stuff, so I have a “featured” attribute on all of my posts that if set to true makes it appear on the homepage.
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aaronpk That's kinda how mine works, I just have a bunch of rules to automatically set the flag
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-03-31.html
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[eddie] ohhh, gotcha. :thumbsup: Nice
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tantek gRegorLove: if you have a venue for HWC Bellingham (I thought I saw you mention it) - update the wiki page so it makes it to the newsletter!
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tantek the lack of photo in the newsletter makes me want to make up an indieweb lunch or something just we can take some sort of photo and post it
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tantek (I mean too late now - unless someone wants to do a quick indieweb coffee meetup and post it :P )
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aaronpk like right now? lol
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gRegorLove It's already up
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tantek gRegorLove: not according to the newsletter!
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tantek https://indieweb.org/2017/Bellingham says Where TBD
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gRegorLove Oh, *IWC*
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tantek lol
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tantek my bad
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gRegorLove It's like 95% sure. I'd feel more comfortable once we've signed stuff.
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gRegorLove Too many abbreviations :)
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gRegorLove We'll probably be moving the HWC meetups there too, though. It's a makerspace and they want people around more regularly, so very receptive to it.
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aaronpk neat
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tantek cool
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tantek we are so close on locking down the dates for IWS right?
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tantek speaking of abbrs
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tantek what is IWS
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IWS
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gRegorLove Seems like it
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gRegorLove June 17-18 seems pretty solidly "no"
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aaronpk looks like either June 3-4 or 24-25?
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tantek right
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tantek is that worth a post?
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aaronpk a post?
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gRegorLove Anyone else to ping on votes? shaners?
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tantek Dates for IndieWebSummit narrowed down! June 3-4 or 24-25. Got a preference? Add yourself! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
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tantek goes to his client, BBEdit
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Loqi [indieweb] "#IndieWeb Summit 2017 dates narrowed down to: * June 3-4 OR * June 24-25 Add your preference! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit" on 2017-03-31 http://tantek.com/2017/090/t4/indiewebsummit-dates-add-preference
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@t #IndieWeb Summit 2017 dates narrowed down to: * June 3-4 OR * June 24-25 Add your preference! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit (ttk.me t4nb4) (twitter.com/_/status/847921430092230657)
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tantek like that
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aaronpk whoa, the superfeedr ping beat twitter
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tantek yeah my site is good about that :)
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tantek I ping superfeedr IMMEDIATELY after I've POSSEd to Twitter via the API and saved the syndication link, so that PuSH subscribers can see the syndication link
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tantek yes my site is faster at *saving* to storage and then pinging superfeedr, than Twitter is about propagating a tweet
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tantek it helps that I only have to touch one file to do that
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tantek anyway - can I get a bookmark on that? ;)
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tantek you know - to IndieNews
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gRegorLove Why not u-syndication to indienews?
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aaronpk only tantek can do that
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tantek haven't built that checkbox yet
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tantek !tell GWG you still up for helping to co-organize an IWC NYC this year? Add yourself as a co-organizer! https://indieweb.org/Planning#NYC
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "#IndieWeb Summit 2017 dates narrowed down to: June 3-4 OR June 24-25" http://tantek.com/2017/090/t4/indiewebsummit-dates-add-preference (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/31/12/)
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GWG Okay
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-03-31.html
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tantek looks good
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tantek got to try for a photo next time
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tantek I think the dates of all planned 2017 IndieWebCamps should go on the home page
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked this tweet: ⚡️ on Twitter: &#8220;#IndieWeb Summit 2017 dates narrowed down to: * June 3-4 OR * June 24-25 Add your preference! https://t.co/BGBql8svDC (ttk.me t4nb4)&#8221;" by Scott Kingery on 2017-03-31 http://techlifeweb.com/15782-2/
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tantek what just happened
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aaronpk techlifeweb liked your tweet
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tantek is that superfeedr seeing a like?
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aaronpk yeah
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KartikPrabhu maybe Loqi could add a (via Superfeedr) or something to denote these
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Loqi I'm pretty sure maybe loqi could add a (via superfeedr)
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aaronpk lolol
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sknebel isn't everything with [indieweb]" via superfeedr?
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aaronpk yeah
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sknebel (in contrast to @twitteruser or [indienews])
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aaronpk i just changed it to superfeedr. we'll see if that makes it more obvious. i'm on the fence about it tho
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snarfed similar base problem as filtering out comments on chrisaldrich's site
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aaronpk i guess yeah
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sknebel does superfeedr send you only the text, or the full markup?
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aaronpk i get a JSON structure based on what they parse
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sknebel then one could maybe filter likes and stuff, at least from indieweb sites
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aaronpk it's based on RSS tho, so there isn't anything beyond name and content really
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aaronpk i'd have to go fetch the page myself, to parse the mf2, which isn't a crazy idea
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snarfed aaronpk: the content field (and maybe sometimes summary too) include html, right, including classes?
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aaronpk i think so
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aaronpk not sure how much of the post is actually in the content though
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snarfed should be everything that was in the feed
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aaronpk here's an example of what i get: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/dd0729e83acf7752c879a0c36a5858a6
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snarfed bridgy depends on that; it doesn't fetch permalink
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snarfed superfeedr++ i see mf2 classes
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Loqi superfeedr has 8 karma
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aaronpk i *guess* i could wrap the content in an h-entry and then mf2-parse it? that seems like a hack tho
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gRegorLove How about batching them together after X received for the same URL?
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gRegorLove So the first comment comes through normally, then later "10 more notifications..."
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snarfed ah batching. deceptively complicated. lots of prior art on wiki, aaronpk's site, my site
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snarfed e.g. https://snarfed.org/clustering-notifications
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Clustering notifications
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aaronpk my last implementation of batching (on webmention.io) doesn't actually work that great
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aaronpk that's also not really the core of the problem here
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snarfed agreed
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@kevinmarks “The more you let engagement metrics drive editorial, the more your site will look like a Taboola widget.” #indieweb https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/03/how-the-like-button-ruined-the-internet/519795/?single_page=true (twitter.com/_/status/847960977039667200)