#indieweb 2017-04-21

2017-04-21 UTC
snarfed and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
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[cleverdevil] Have you considered Nextcloud Tasks?
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[cleverdevil] What is Nextcloud Tasks?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Nextcloud Tasks" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] Nextcloud Tasks is an app for the [[Nextcloud]] platform that provides task tracking and management, and syncs with popular desktop and mobile task management applications like [[2Do]]. – https://github.com/nextcloud/tasks
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Loqi ok
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[cleverdevil] What is 2Do?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2Do" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KevinMarks How about todo.txt
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KartikPrabhu what is Nextcloud?
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Loqi Nextcloud is an open source software project for self-hosted personal web services including a file manager (an indie version of Dropbox), music, calendar (CalDAV), contacts (CardDAV), and more https://indieweb.org/Nextcloud
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KartikPrabhu do we need a separate page for every Nextcloud app?
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[cleverdevil] 2Do is a task management app for [[iOS]], [[macOS]], and [[Android]].
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Loqi ok
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[cleverdevil] 2Do << https://www.2doapp.com
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.2doapp.com" to the "See Also" section of /2Do
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KartikPrabhu maybe one could add the apps to https://indieweb.org/Nextcloud#Applications instead of their own pages which have minimal descriptions
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[cleverdevil] That's a good idea.
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plindner Maybe I should just go back to org-mode
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snarfed org-mode++
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Loqi org-mode has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu what's that?
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plindner emacs task manager http://orgmode.org
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KartikPrabhu aah
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plindner looks like there are some mobile apps now.. hmmm
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tantek_ Hello again
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tantek_ hey plindner in the house!
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[eddie] aaronpk what would an "IndieWeb" replacement entail? Are there currently any proposed standards around that type of stuff? I know some apps are getting into integrating taskpaper's plain text format for interoperability
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tantek_ eddie, work it backwards. note that many /note posts are things people *have done*
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tantek_ a to do post in that regard is kind of like a draft but with side-effect pre-requisites
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[cleverdevil] Oh great, another idea that I now inevitably have to implement for my site...
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[cleverdevil] THANKS TANTEK
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tantek_ what is 43things
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "43things" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] Almost like "promises" in many programming languages ?
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tantek_ 43Things is a to-do hosting [[silo]] with social media features such as friending, ability to cheer ([[like]]) or comment on to-do [[posts]].
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Loqi ok
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tantek_ 43Things << https://43things.com/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://43things.com/" to the "See Also" section of /43Things
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tantek_ 43Things << example user-profile found on homepage: https://43things.com/u/parunt1987
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Loqi ok, I added "example user-profile found on homepage: https://43things.com/u/parunt1987" to the "See Also" section of /43Things
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tantek_ cleverdevil, take a look at 43Things, it's got some decent UX around "to-do" posts in a social media context, worthy of trying out, screenshotting etc. as research towards developing your own indie to-do posts
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[eddie] @tantek_ interesting
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[cleverdevil] I'll check it out, for sure.
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tantek_ eddie, definitely! yet another opportunity to own your data, or perhaps share your data, since most to-do solutions are private / local by default
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tantek_ e.g. to-do.txt
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[eddie] That is interesting, as they would be notes, you could automatically do all the normal stuff like tag people, comment or reacji
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[eddie] Ohhh!!!! Wait, it overlaps with my media posts: "interested, inprogress, finished"
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[kevinmarks] hm, so would tagging people like you do in trello webmention them instead of emailing?
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[eddie] ??
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[eddie] Yeah, I think you would webmention a tagged person, that would allow their site to do whatever kind of processing that want
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[eddie] Mind. Blown.
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[eddie] I think the key thing about To Do apps though is the nice, focused interface. Micropub would allow you to save/edit posts. There isn't really any defined way to pull data from a site though, is there? I think everything I've seen is just the Micropub query for things like venues and syndicat endpoints. Microsub doesn't necessarily seem right either, because that is about how your site communicates with a reader app about what people you want to subs
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[kevinmarks] isn't it just an h-feed?
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[eddie] I guess so is there a standard for a private hfeed?
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[eddie] I'm thinking of how you would say have a private h-feed that contains both public and private todo posts, that you would only access after authenticating. My site doesn't really have authentication yet. Has anyone ever explored private authenticated h-feeds? I'm guessing not
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[kevinmarks] put it behind auth?
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tantek_ eddie, I'm not sure about private authenticated h-feeds, but a few folks here have explored showing more on their home page when you're signed in via IndieAuth
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tantek_ e.g. contact information
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tantek_ but there's no reason why you couldn't also show more posts in your home page composite stream
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tantek_ I kind of want to do that with checkins
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tantek_ eddie, the other thing similar to to-do posts, are events, since they're both about something you expect or want to do in the future
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[eddie] Yeah, I've been doing some private media posts so on my local Jekyll instance on my computer I've been running Jekyll in such a way that it will build and show posts marked with visibility: private when I'm on my local Jekyll instance but my website builds it without private posts. Once I move away from Jekyll in the not too distant future, I'll be able to handle authentication and could start experimenting with showing my private posts on my authen
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[eddie] maybe experiment with private h-feeds
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tantek_ that's a clever approach!
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[eddie] Thanks. Yeah, by default Jekyll has something similar for drafts. Basically you build Jekyll with the --drafts flag and it will show draft posts. I took the same concept and just applied it to private marked posts.
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[kevinmarks] hugo has that too
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[eddie] I've enjoyed Jekyll but I do feel like I'm beginning to reach the end of it's ease of use ? haha, I think after I finish tackling Indigenous, next up is moving from Jekyll to Angular Universal (server-side rendering of the Angular SPA code).
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Loqi rofl
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[eddie] What is SPA?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SPA" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[eddie] What is Single Page Application?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Single Page Application" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[eddie] Eh, oh well
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gRegorLove tantek: Looks like Sandeep added the rel=webmention.org 2013-06-03: https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/21db7a7cd12e1de7e7176426b77123b3c5aa31e1
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gRegorLove Placeholder wm endpoint the same day: https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/b02a8630a246b966a3efd12f501e380038500e6b
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gRegorLove And sending webmentions the next day: https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/02f0be8820d67f75376bed184df6b5a4d426d53b
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gRegorLove Finally, receiving wm on the 9th: https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/2141426413658bc9340ab4ca6406c8e3a9ab97c1
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tantek_ wow I got a "5 years ago" on this day from Swarm
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tantek_ and it's maybe not the best reminder. huh
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dansup thoughts on my AS2 library? https://github.com/dansup/php-activitystreams#usage
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dansup still a WIP, I want a fluent API
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skippy late to the party, but I heartily recommend todo.txt for anyone looking at to do apps. https://skippy.net/todotxt/
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Loqi [Scott Merrill] todo.txt
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gRegorLove I don't see a pingback header before 2013-06-27, and then it's pingback.me, so pretty sure the earlier comments are by webmention: https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/8f8bff39cdd6f640d5f9f43ad6ace034a9cf301c
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tantek_ gRegorLove++ nice sleuthing
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Loqi gregorlove has 86 karma in this channel (117 overall)
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tantek_ gRegorlove - can you write up and link those in https://indieweb.org/Webmention-developer#Sandeep_Shetty ? (just stubbed it)
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tantek_ goes back to documenting an "on this day" issue
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@dsup Making progress on an activity streams 2 library. https://github.com/dansup/php-activitystreams #indieweb #activitystreams #federation (twitter.com/_/status/855246529740759040)
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dansup heh
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tantek_ dansup, add yourself to /irc-people so that you show up in the logs at least as nicely as your tweets and linked to your personal site as well! E.g. compare http://indieweb.org/irc/2017-04-20/line/1492741654204 to the line above it.
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Loqi [dansup] heh
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dansup tantek_, ok, thanks
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dansup still needs to setup his website
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tantek_ dansup, there's a github template for a static starting page :)
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tantek_ what is getting started
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Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page & other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
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dansup oh thats awesome, thanks for sharing tantek_
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tantek_ dansup, this in particular: https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started#GitHub_Pages
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tantek_ helps you get something on a domain in a few minutes at least so you have something to link to :)
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miklb I should update my jekyll-indieweb repo and add it that section
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tantek_ what is todo
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Loqi Next steps for IndieWebCamp and IndieWeb efforts https://indieweb.org/todo
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tantek_ heh
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Loqi definitely
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dansup tantek_, I have dansup.com, I will just CNAME that to github pages. I never thought of doing that, good call
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dansup will be handy until I finish my laravel website
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tantek_ dansup, definitely! Then you can start using dansup.com for your indieweb login etc.
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tantek_ gRegorlove, with your analysis of Converspace repo history, looks like you've confirmed this is the first example of webmention comment federation: http://indieweb.org/irc/2017-04-19/line/1492671575461
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Loqi [gRegorLove] Here's first of aaronpk's comments I've found on another site (starting from 2013-05-26 onward): https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20160331132325/http://www.sandeep.io/44...
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tantek_ since that happened from aaronpk->sandeep on 2013-06-11, and sandeep had implemented (presumably and deployed) webmention receiving on 2013-06-09 per that link you found.
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-21.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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tantek_ Note to Loqi, it's already 2017-04-21 for some of us ;)
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tantek_ gives Loqi an international datetime line
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Loqi investigates the international datetime line
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tantek_ very good.
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tantek_ hmm no photos in https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-21.html despite the HWC this past week?
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tantek_ !tell martymcguire, funwhilelost, adactio - any photos from your Homebrew Website Club meetups this past Wednesday? Add to https://indieweb.org/events/2017-04-19-homebrew-website-club#Photos ! Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek_ aaronpk, thanks for the improvements on /federation !
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ben_thatmustbeme Reading back before bed. dansup building in laravel? I've been slowly working on redoing my site in laravel as well
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dansup ben_thatmustbeme, nice, im working on some indieweb packages for my laravel gnu/social clone
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dansup and my blog
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ben_thatmustbeme Feel free to check out what little I've had done thus far,. Actually looks like I haven't pushed code in some time
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ben_thatmustbeme GitHub.com/dissolve/splatter
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm hoping that once I get to webmention and micropub, etc, to just make libraries out of them
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ben_thatmustbeme Been soo tired up with other stuff lately though
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ben_thatmustbeme Definitely let me know when you have done of those packages available
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dansup looks nice
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dansup sure, after I am done activitystreams I am going to finish https://github.com/dansup/php-micropub
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snarfed dansup what does your PHP AS lib do? looks like it just converts in memory objects to JSON right now?
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dansup snarfed, for the moment yes, it will eventually support PSR7 responses and model transformers
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snarfed assumes those are PHP things
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[cleverdevil] OK, I am pretty darn happy with my "On This Day" implementation, now!
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/onthisday/
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[cleverdevil] I added the ability to page forward and backward through time ?
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/onthisday/04/16
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Loqi [Jonathan LaCour] He's a little short for a Storm Trooper https://cleverdevil.io/file/456cc59246be6b41525b3eab3a5763ea/thumb.jpg
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[cleverdevil] I'll eventually add the ability to show an entire month, as well.
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[cleverdevil] So, "/onthisday/04" would show "April" through the years.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Owning My Memories" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-04-21 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/owning-my-memories
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Facebook’s algorithm isn’t surfacing one-third of our posts. And it’s getting worse." by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-04-21 https://medium.com/@kurtgessler/facebooks-algorithm-isn-t-surfacing-one-third-of-our-posts-and-it-s-getting-worse-68e37ee025a3
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[cleverdevil] Okay, time for bed. Night, folks.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @aaronpk" by Scott Kingery on 2017-04-21 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-aaronpk/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @dsup" by Scott Kingery on 2017-04-21 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-dsup/
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snarfed hey aaronpk i know you're still working on IWS venue...but i assume you expect it will be downtown?
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cweiske aaronpk, does chat.indieweb.org support websub to notify about new chat lines?
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cweiske pinde is able to subscribe, so we could have instant search index updates
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tantek_ I'm assuming it will be downtown or within easy lightrail ride
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tantek_ snarfed, are you asking because of hotel?
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tantek_ gRegorLove++ I went to go update /timeline and you already did it!
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Loqi gregorlove has 87 karma in this channel (118 overall)
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tantek_ ooh we're up to 13 RSVPs, and 9 of those indie rsvps on https://2017.indieweb.org/ !
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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tantek_ cleverdevil, did you write a Known plugin for "on this day"? That anyone could install?
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strk any reason why indieauth does not support openid ?
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strk I mean, when it asks me for a website, and I give it, it will NOT look for openid rel links at all
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strk so either I provide my GPG/PGP key, or an email or an external service
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cweiske strk, or use the indieaut-openid proxy
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strk which means the only non-external way to authenticate myself is less easy/comfortable than my own openid
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strk cweiske: how's that done ? (I remember your nick btw, are you from libravatar ?: )
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cweiske yes I am :)
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cweiske <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/" />
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cweiske put that on your homepage
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cweiske it proxies indieauth requests to openid requests
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cweiske I made it so I can continue to use my openid server for indieauth
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KartikPrabhu what is openid?
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Loqi OpenID is a method of using an HTTP URL as an identity for signing into websites https://indieweb.org/OpenID
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KartikPrabhu what is indieauth?
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Loqi IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites — it's like OpenID, but works with services you likely already use, and is much easier to setup https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth
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strk cweiske: nope, that's not what I'm after
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KartikPrabhu oh well!
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strk it's not using indieauth as my openid provider, I already have that
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strk I have my openid provider, just want to be able to use that with sites asking me for a "indieweb" auth (or what's it called)
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cweiske it means you can use your website at indieauth.com and log in using your openid provider
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cweiske what you want
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cweiske try it
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strk Loqi: to me, given I did already setup OpenID, it is *harder* to setup
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cweiske loqi is a bot
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strk or... I did set it up, but it will require me to use my email or gpg-sign a piece of text
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strk which are both more expensive at use time than my OpenID setup
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cweiske http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/ "This software make it possible to use your OpenID to login to IndieAuth-enabled websites."
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strk anyway, other readers can see what I'm talking about :)
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strk uhm
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KartikPrabhu strk: what is your own URL?
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strk does that imply delegating recognition of myself via your service cweiske ?
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strk what if you wanted to impersonate me ?
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4nxAj4Qj.jpg
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strk would it be straightforward for you ?
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cweiske strk, yes I could impersonate you
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cweiske which is why you should simply try if it works for you with my setup
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strk ok
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cweiske and if it's what you want, host it yourself
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strk right, making it again more complex to setup than openid
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strk wouldn't it be just much simpler to support openid right away ?
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KartikPrabhu strk: if indieauth does not support something you'd like file a bug/ feature request
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cweiske strk, I already tried to fight that
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cweiske but people here are not so fond of openid
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strk but they are nice to twitter and github ?
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strk wow, that's "indie" !
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cweiske yesp
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KartikPrabhu strk: yes, nice snark! thanks
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strk guess I could install a fork of that thing under /openid/indieauth on my site
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strk cweiske: did you file that bug/feature_request already ?
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cweiske strk, indieauth.com once supported openid
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strk oh !
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cweiske something is broken
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cweiske strk, another thing you need to understand is that indieauth.com is only a stopgap
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cweiske there are enough applications that do not rely on indieauth.com for login
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cweiske but implement the indieauth protocol directly
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cweiske so having indieauth.com support openid would not help with these
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strk how complex is the indieauth protocol ?
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cweiske pretty simply
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cweiske simple
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cweiske which is why my proxy is only 60 LOC or so
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strk cweiske: may I suggest to add a link to http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/ in the README of that project of yours ?
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strk I got lost from the repo :)
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strk oh, and I assume you're keeping an eye on gitea.io (just in case you missed it)
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strk I've added support for OpenID-2.0 consumer there :)
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cweiske I'm waiting for openid support
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cweiske last time I looked it was missing
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strk it's there, check out try.gitea.io
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strk and please help me convincing notabug.org people to switch from Gogs to Gitea with OpenID support ! (you can find them in #freepost)
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cweiske that's good news, openid support in gitea
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strk does your proxy *need* to be in the root dir or will /openid/indieauth work too ?
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cweiske rm
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cweiske erm
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cweiske no idea
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cweiske let me check
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cweiske I guess you can symlink /openid/indieauth to the www directory in the git checkout
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cweiske that should work
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strk I'm actually adding your repo as a submodule of my website git repo
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strk (or that's the plan)
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cweiske I separated public code (www) from the rest (data)
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strk but maybe it takes some local config ? [ I'm hoping for things to be just magic ;)
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cweiske needs no config
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cweiske just stores some tokens in a sqlite file
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cweiske which is stored in the data directory
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strk ok so it would be good to make data/ directory not readable by all
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strk maybe I'll use an alias then
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cweiske that'd be better
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strk had you considered proposing your proxy for inclusion in debian packages ?
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strk that'd be even more simple :
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cweiske no
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strk simpleid has a package, for example :)
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strk bah anyway its still lots of state
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strk I don't like it (the sqlite db) when I already have OpenID state
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strk how do implementors decide which things they support and which not ?
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strk ie: when indieauth.com tells me it found no supported services (but finds a supported service when I add a github account)
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strk is that part of the protocol ?
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cweiske no
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cweiske as I said, it's a stopgap
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cweiske indieauth.com is an indieauth proxy itself
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cweiske proxies indieauth requests to other providers
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cweiske just as my indieauth proxy proxies to openid
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strk what are indieauth consumers required to support ?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieauth consumers required to support " yet. Would you like to create it?
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cweiske what is indieauth protocol?
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Loqi IndieAuth for login is a user flow and protocol for web applications to implement user login via an authorization server https://indieweb.org/indieauth_protocol
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strk reads
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cweiske strk, https://indieweb.org/authorization-endpoint
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cweiske this is the correct one
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KartikPrabhu indieauth.com support common logins thing like Twitter and Github so that people can use the things they already might use
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cweiske but indieauth_protocol gives a good overview
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KartikPrabhu as cweiske pointed out one can use the indieauth protocol to setup ones own
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strk so the protocol is really the same as openid
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cweiske less complex
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cweiske but also does not deliver any profile data as openid does
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cweiske (name, email etc)
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@kevinmarks @hmans Right, there are the stalwarts of http://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/855359351145598976)
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strk ah, got it, so the "me" links are just for indiauth.com while the protocol really wants "authorization_endpoint"
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cweiske yes
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strk the protocol page does not tell how the service is supposed to "verify code"
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KevinMarks Is this the relmeauth vs indieauth distinction ?
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cweiske yes
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strk oh, and it's a wiki, is there any "official" (and versioned) document ?
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cweiske no
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cweiske https://indieweb.org/authorization-endpoint tells how to verify
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cweiske the protocol page is more a general overview
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cweiske https://indieweb.org/authorization-endpoint#Auth_code_verification
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strk "haven't written this part up yet" ...
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cweiske where?
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strk " how does the client website register the callback at the server? "
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strk in https://indieweb.org/authorization-endpoint
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cweiske nobody validates this yet
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strk and now I ended up in http://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth
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Loqi RelMeAuth is a proposed open standard for using rel-me links to profiles on OAuth supporting services to authenticate via either those profiles or your own site. RelMeAuth is the technology behind web-sign-in. Editor Tantek Çelik (http://tan...
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strk for sure OpenID has its advantages
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strk ( specification )
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strk gets lost in too many "standards"
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cweiske no standards yet
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strk openid is also using a namespace for the rel, which is helpful in these scenario
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strk ie: rel="openid2.provider"
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strk compare with: rel="authorization_endpoint"
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cweiske aaronpk, this is a good point
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strk also versioned, as for openid 1 you had rel="openid.server"
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strk unfortunately OpenID-Connect took the "Webfinger" route for discovery, as far as I can tell
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strk so it became less easy to setup
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cweiske I did not look at openid connect
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strk discovery is published as a separate document: https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-discovery-1_0.html
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strk and there's yet another extension for self-registration of providers (which would otherwise need to be known by consumers [web services])
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strk so, complexity++
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strk and OpenID-Connect is what *deprecates* OpenID-2.0
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cweiske sure, but I fail to see the point in openid-connect
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cweiske or I did not look hard enough :)
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cweiske apart from "hey, lets throw away all the openid2 code and make something new!"
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strk it does indeed look like they tried to break the toy, maybe pushed by corps
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strk anyway, "connect" is implemented on top of OAuth2, so maybe there was a convenience about that
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strk (using other more used standards more)
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strk OAuth2 / Webfinger / Dunno what else
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[kevinmarks] Openid 2 was trying to replace openid with OAuth, yes
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[kevinmarks] But the indirection escalation took over
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[kevinmarks] I was trying to document some of this at https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/AccountDiscovery
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martymcguire[m] !tell tantek thanks for the reminder. i need to write down the post-HWC steps to be sure i don't miss the wikifying of photos and notes.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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strk KevinMarks: OpenID-Connect is using OAuth, OpenID-2.0 was not
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strk [kevinmarks]: ^
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GWG Good day, all
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jeremycherfas Morning all.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@LukasRosenstock Absolutely. Make it easy to host an indieweb capable domain and business can only grow." by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-04-21 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/lukasrosenstock-absolutely-make-it-easy-to-host-an-indieweb-capable
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@EatPodcast @LukasRosenstock Absolutely. Make it easy to host an indieweb capable domain and business can only grow. (twitter.com/_/status/855404263123636224)
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aaronpk Good morning
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aaronpk catching up on the IndieAuth discussion, looks like it's sorted
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Loqi good morning
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aaronpk OpenID 1 is effectively dead, since all the people behind it moved to OpenID Connect, and there are almost no OpenID providers still online anymore
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aaronpk sadly, OpenID Connect doesn't really serve the same needs as OpenID 1 did, because it is focused on large companies rather than individuals' domains
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skippy I have some implementation questions about h-entry on personal domains. Looking at https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.net%2Fgoogle%2F - I am the only author on this site, and it seems silly to explicitly state "published by skippy" on every post. Is there an IndieWeb recommendation for this kind of thing?
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skippy i get that syndicated copies of this content might benefit from such explicit authorship.
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skippy similarly, is there h-entry support for publications dates wihtout the full time and timezone format? I don't track the times at which I post content, so the datetime="YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS" format is cumbersome at best for me.
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ben_thatmustbeme skippy: you don't have to include the exact time if you don't want to, you can just use datetime="YYYY-MM-DD"
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skippy i see. thanks ben_thatmustbeme. The docs I've read haven't made that clear.
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ben_thatmustbeme datetime attribute is a part of the html spec i believe
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ben_thatmustbeme https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_time_datetime.asp
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skippy thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme as for putting your info on every post, it doesn't need to be visible, you could have an invisible h-card
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ben_thatmustbeme what is authorship
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Loqi authorship is a claim about who the author(s) of a post are https://indieweb.org/authorship
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ben_thatmustbeme so long as people can find who the author is
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strk aaronpk: you're getting versioning wrong
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strk aaronpk: there was OpenID-1 (openid.server), OpenID-2 (openid2.provider), OpenID-Connect
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strk OpenID-2 does have implementations (Friendica, GNUSocial, SimpleID, ...)
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strk +Gitea (recently)
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aaronpk IndieAuth.com used to consume OpenID 1, but I never added support for OpenID 2. You could open an issue on it to add support for OpenID 2, although I am unlikely to work on adding it myself.
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strk OpenID-1 is provided by some old wordpress.com blogs ( https://github.com/yohcop/openid-go/issues/43 )
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strk and I read from IndieAuth.com
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aaronpk I removed OpenID support a while ago because it started getting super unreliable, showing very confusing error messages
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strk Gitea does not allow logging in via OpenID-1.0
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strk I've found confusing errors and partial implementations in OpenID-2.0 libraries too (the one used by GNUSocial and at least another project I used today)
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strk but as there's a complete specification I'm trying to fix those free implementations
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strk simpleid is a php openid-2.0 provider (not sure if opendi1 too) which has a pluggable backend module
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strk anyway, where should I file the ticket ?
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com
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aaronpk in the indieweb context, IndieAuth is used more for authorization, and the protocol looks more like OAuth 2.0
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aaronpk IndieAuth.com is a URL based authentication service that provides an OAuth2-like API.
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aaronpk But if your site is it's own IndieAuth provider, then you'll never see IndieAuth.com when you log in to things that speak it natively
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aaronpk ... emphasizing again my regret at having called that service IndieAuth.com to begin with
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aaronpk Hence https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/138
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[kevinmarks] Gnusocial supports account login /signup with openid, mastodon doesn't
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[kevinmarks] Blogger still lets you login to comment with openid
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strk filed 2 tickets
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strk GNUSocial also supports (and provides) OpenID-2.0
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strk I dunno if it accepts OpenID-1.x, hadn't tried that
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: add those to http://indieweb.org/OpenID#Consuming_Sites
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aaronpk also anyone feel free to update that wiki page with 1 vs 2 information
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strk specify versions there please
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strk Openstreetmap (consumes 2.0)
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strk ^ that's openstreetmap.org
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aaronpk strk: you're welcome to edit the page :-)
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strk launchpad provides 2.0 - https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/OpenID
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strk livejournal also provides 2.0
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strk friendica consumes 2.0
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strk those are not "sites" but "softwares"
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aaronpk Sounds like a good distinction to make on the page
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aaronpk you can make a new header for Consuming Software and clean that up
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strk sorry I have problems logging in :)
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strk too much effort (gpg-signing the text) - do you know of a firefox extension to do that ?
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strk or confirming the code sent by mail
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strk or setting up my openid proxy (not done yet)
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aaronpk I use the OS X GPG app with a keyboard shortcut to sign the text
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strk keyboard shortcut from within the browser ?
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aaronpk No, it's system wide
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aaronpk in the "services" menu
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strk indeed doesn't need to be browser specific, could be "sign clipboard text"
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aaronpk it's "sign selected text" and it replaces the selected text with a signed version
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strk bah, still problematic, not ready
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strk unless you know the equivalent tool for a Mate desktop
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strk and a Gnome one
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strk would this help, btw ? https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/144
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strk as the wiki is on indieauth.com, right ?
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aaronpk Correct, the wiki uses IndieAuth.com to handle authentication
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aaronpk cause i didn't want to implement all that logic as a mediawiki plugin :-)
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strk wouldn't "all that logic" basically be support for IndieAuth protocol ?
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strk or is the "me" links support completely outside of the protocol and specific for indieauth.com ?
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ben_thatmustbeme indieauth.com gives you the option to use your own indieauth (spec) service if you have one set up
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ben_thatmustbeme so while the wiki points to indieauth.com, it does allow you to use your own service
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strk yes, I see that
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skippy indiewebify.me states "either link to your homepage (which should have your h-card on)from anywhere on the page with rel=author". i have a <link rel="author" ...> in the <head> of the page; but that seems not to be picked up by the h-entry validator. Is the bug on my side or the validator's side?
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strk ben_thatmustbeme: but it *adds* support for more auth methods
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strk (but not for OpenID)
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ben_thatmustbeme you can always make your own indieauth provider that does support OpenID
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ben_thatmustbeme skippy: that sounds like a bug in the validator, should file a bug
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skippy thanks
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strk ben_thatmustbeme: yes, I also understood this, but you can see it's more setup once you already have an openid provider
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strk and, so far, it would be just to edit that wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme thats like saying any site X doesn't support OpenID, they have a different login mechanism. It leaves a few choices, file a bug with an existing provider (indieauth.com) and hope someone else adds support, add support, and make a PR for an existing provider, create a new provider, or login via a different method
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strk confirmed, this is the situation
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ben_thatmustbeme simplest method for you to login wotul be to add a rel="me" href="https://github.com/strk" to strk.kbt.io
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ben_thatmustbeme and then you can login for now
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ben_thatmustbeme wow, s/wotul/would/
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strk yes, but the only reason I'm looking at indieweb is for the "indie" part, so won't do that :)
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strk I'd have an indie way, but requires too many gestures
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ben_thatmustbeme your login is still your own URL, all that matters at that point is plumbing. nothing about indieweb says you can't utilize external services
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ben_thatmustbeme just so long as you have other ways to do it as well, or rather, you don't lose anything if it goes away
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ben_thatmustbeme if github.com goes away tomorrow, you set up the same thing via twitter
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strk but any github employee could impersonate me today
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strk (I know how unlikely this is, just pushing to the extreme...)
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aaronpk And if that happens then you remove the rel-me URL
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aaronpk and you haven't lost the identity, you just change the authentication mechanism you use next time
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ben_thatmustbeme technically whoever you registered your domain name could always impersonate you
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ben_thatmustbeme or your hosting provider, assuming you don't host at home
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ben_thatmustbeme there has to be some infrastructure you depend on
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strk true, registrar employees could do that too
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strk only way out of this would be for me to send public key to final service
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aaronpk Yep. This is the Indie *Web* so we work within the constraints we are given at that later http://indieweb.org/DNS
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[kevinmarks] No, that just means anyone with your private key can impersonate you, as revocation is to hard, or relies on dns
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ben_thatmustbeme you can't really be on the web and not have to trust some external authority
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[kevinmarks] That's the Salmon mistake again
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/21/5/ownyourgram
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[cleverdevil] !tell tantek I did create a plugin for "on this day" for Known, sort of. Currently, it lives here – https://github.com/cleverdevil/CleverCustomize – but, it requires a change to Known core that I haven't yet submitted a PR for.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] Sounds like I will be speaking (along with one of our cofounders) about IndieWeb at World Hosting Days in Las Vegas later this year.
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[cleverdevil] Goal is going to be to get other companies in the industry to adopt / support IndieWeb.
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aaronpk wow, awesome
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aaronpk is there a date set? add it to https://indieweb.org/Events?
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[cleverdevil] Nothing official, yet. We're submitting the abstract this week. Already have the slot locked up, but need to go through the process.
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[cleverdevil] Once we get everything approved, I'll add it!
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aaronpk \o/
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ben_thatmustbeme cool!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Test #Known --> #Mastodon #indieweb" by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-04-21 https://www.rmendes.net/2017/test-known----mastodon-indieweb
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[cleverdevil] :thumbsup:
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[kevinmarks] That's great cleverdevil. Stacey has been trying to get GoDaddy to adopt indieweb too
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[cleverdevil] The more the merrier!
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cweiske strk, would is be enough to be able to use an ENV variable to define the sqlite file path?
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cweiske s/is/it/
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strk cweiske: probably, yes - then maybe you want to create the directory if non existing
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strk so the data/ can be dropped
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strk but really to make it a git clone away it should also not be under www/
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strk so not sure how you want to deal with that
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strk *and* default to /tmp/url-encoded-uri/ so that multiple installs on the same server could cohexist
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cweiske using www/ is a deliberate decision
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strk yes, I understand that decision
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cweiske I don't want to have README.rst and things publicly available
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strk ok, this also makes sense
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strk it's just me being unable to decide on a proper install path :P
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strk lack of a "make install" path makes web services installs a nightmare to me :)
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cweiske I don't understand why you can't do:
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cweiske 1. git clone the repo to /usr/local/src/indieauth-openid
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cweiske 2. add an alias in your webserver configuration to /usr/local/src/indieauth-openid/www/
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cweiske that should be all
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strk that's the path I've actually started taking already
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strk but a production service in .../src doesn't really look nice
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cweiske then move it to /var/www/indieauth-openid/
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strk yeah, could be
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strk ok, almost there - one more reason to get the homepage in the README: https://id.kbt.io/indieauth/
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strk you get lost from there once again, only link is to repo, and there's no link from repo to homepage
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strk assuming this is not intentionally center-less
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cweiske I don't understand what you mean
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strk does your project have an homepage or is it just the git repo ?
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cweiske no homepage. just the readme on the repo
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strk now, missing Net/URL2.php
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strk cweiske: easy way to obtain ? (or can the code do w/out ?)
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cweiske see the updated readme
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strk apt-get install php-net-url2
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cweiske whut
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cweiske where is that update?
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cweiske pear install net-url2 openid-alpha
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cweiske seems I forgot to push at work :/
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strk oh, php-openid too ... that's the one pending a PR I sent some time ago
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strk would you like to take a look and help getting it merged ?
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strk it's to support openid pages with uppercase <HEAD> tag
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strk be tolerant etc.etc.
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cweiske where?
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cweiske I don't see one at https://github.com/pear/openid
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strk Failed opening required 'OpenID.php' # so that didn't help (apt-get install php-openid)
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cweiske no idea what php-openid is
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cweiske ah. https://github.com/openid/php-openid
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strk yep, and https://github.com/openid/php-openid/pull/134
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strk which affects GNUSocial and wordpress-openid (both shipping their own local copy)
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cweiske oh man. everywhere the same people.
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cweiske world is so small. just saw liayn on the committer list for php-openid
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strk it's a small world
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strk 10 people each with its server. It's the federated clan !
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strk well, if you know liayn help merging that thing
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strk I had to lowercase my <HEAD> tag just to be able to login into openid enabled websites... that sucks :)
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strk I know people made my uppercase tags illegal
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strk but I was here *before* those new standards !
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cweiske :)
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strk you still didn't push that new README ?
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strk oh, and maybe it would be nice to tag another release :)
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strk as the only tag I see has no LICENSE file either
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cweiske strk, I'm not at work anymore
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cweiske and the readme change was there
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cweiske the command that I added was:
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cweiske $ pear install net-url2 openid-alpha
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cweiske $ pear install net_url2 openid-alpha
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strk doesn't help
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cweiske why?
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cweiske check your include path
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strk don't you like Go ? :)
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strk loved Go as soon as he read some code and tried a single deploy
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strk (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
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strk uninstalling:
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strk uninstall ok: channel://pear.php.net/Net_URL2-2.2.1
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strk pear/openid not installed
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strk so maybe the syntax was wrong :)
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strk I hope there'll be at least lots of services for my brand new IndieAuth credentials at least :/ -- out with dog anyway, ttyl
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cweiske $ pear install openid-alpha
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cweiske what do you get?
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miklb this might be better in -dev yes?
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cweiske strk isn't in #indieweb-dev
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GWG Good afternoon
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gRegorLove Howdy, GWG
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GWG Gregorlove, greetings and salmentions.
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GWG I have questions for you
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GWG Re local comments
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[kevinmarks] Site death? https://twitter.com/seldo/status/855469364018987008
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@seldo Apple throwing out iTunes stars in favor of Apple Music hearts deletes 15 years of my data and reduces the cost of switching to Spotify. (twitter.com/_/status/855469364018987008)
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[cleverdevil] **Annoyed by silo doing silo things.**
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[cleverdevil] **Switches to another silo.**
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on @Mentions by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now" by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now on 2017-04-21 http://boffosocko.com/mentions/#comment-34505
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on About Chris Aldrich by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now" by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now on 2017-04-21 http://boffosocko.com/about/#comment-34506
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on ? Margin Call (Lionsgate, 2012) by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now" by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now on 2017-04-21 http://boffosocko.com/2017/04/08/margin-call-lions-gate-2012/#comment-34507
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on ? Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (RKO Radio Pictures, 1948) by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now" by What Chris Aldrich is doing Now on 2017-04-21 http://boffosocko.com/2017/04/09/mr-blandings-builds-his-dream-house-rko-radio-pictures-1948/#comment-34508
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[chrisaldrich] seriously!! I thought I squashed that bug two weeks ago ^^
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[chrisaldrich] checks to see if I rolled back code to a previous version by accident.
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strk cweiske: so back to that proxy (btw, any chance GNUSocial or Friendica plugins exist to act as authorization_endpoint s for indieauth ?
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strk would save me a new install ('cause it's true it is 2 .php files, but they require more stuff underneath...)
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cweiske strk, maybe someone could do that
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cweiske but I won't
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cweiske let's move this to #indieweb-dev
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Loqi [superfeedr] " The ultimate #Mastodon & #Twitter & Facebook #POSSE test ! all from the great @withknown social blog engine ! #indieweb " by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-04-21 https://www.rmendes.net/2017/the-ultimate-mastodon-twitter-facebook-posse-test-all-from-the
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strk I just found myself explaining IndieAuth to others and failed to see the advantage over OpenID
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strk I started with: it's easier than OpenID because you don't need to find an OpenID server to delegate authentication to
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strk but then.. you still need an IndieAuth server to delegate authentication to, right ?
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strk so, how's that different, really ?
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bear you don't need IndieAuth server if you have the auth bits in your environment
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bear IndieAuth is available for those who don't want to run their own auth service
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cweiske strk, the implementation complexity is way lower
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cweiske I actually made a dummy auth server in a couple of LOC
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gRegorLove !tell rmendes I got a 400 error trying to send this webmention to you: {"error":"source_not_supported","error_text":"Could not interpret source as a comment."} https://gregorlove.com/2017/04/star-the-ultimate-mastodon-twitter/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] ★ https://www.rmendes.net/2017/the-ultimate-mastodon-twitter-facebook-posse-test-all-from-the
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-21.html
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@scott_gruber @indiewebcamp with @veganstraightedge and others in PDX was really important to me. Hope to get up and blabber with ya’ll again soon.✌?❤️ (twitter.com/_/status/855520597987610624)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Easier POSSE with Micropub Edits?" https://martymcgui.re/2017/04/19/151612/
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strk cweiske: where's that dummy auth server ? the OpenID server was an apt-get install away, so very easy to get ...
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cweiske no idea actually
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-21.html
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Salt yawns and waits for gRegorLove and strugee to return for our IWC:Bham meeting
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Salt !tell gRegorLove let's try to reschedule the meeting asap, http://whenisgood.net/mcqkcpz
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Salt !tell strugee let's try to reschedule the meeting asap, http://whenisgood.net/mcqkcpz
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Salt Anyone interested in participating in the organizing of the very shortly upcoming IndieWebCamp:Bellingham, please feel free to add your good times to meet here: http://whenisgood.net/mcqkcpz
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@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for April 15th - 21st, 2017. https://martymcgui.re/2017/04/21/184150/ (twitter.com/_/status/855552814218694656)
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb for April 15th - 21st, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/403592 (twitter.com/_/status/855552825505525760)
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martymcguire[m] ^^ heads up, this one gets weird at the end :}
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aaronpk lol?
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aaronpk I am v curious
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... does Instagram offer an API that could be used to enable Syndication / POSSE?
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[cleverdevil] Seems like it might - https://wordpress.org/plugins/auto-post-to-instagram/