#indieweb 2017-04-23

2017-04-23 UTC
wolftune, quails, snarfed, [eddie], KevinMarks, seekr, miklb_, miklb__, mlncn and Pierre-O joined the channel
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@dallas Been working on joining my WordPress site up to the Indieweb, and it’s rekindling my enthusiasm for the web. … https://idallas.com/t/RT (twitter.com/_/status/856043860174274560)
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@kevinmarks #ownyourdata applies to commercial organisations as well as individuals: http://digiday.com/media/guardian-pulls-facebooks-instant-articles-apple-news/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/856088315539468294)
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[dgold] Huh, we still don't even have apple news. Nice to see another product dying before we even get a look at it...
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@mapkyca Can anyone suggest a javascript library to do link preview / url unfurling? Seems like something that should be solved by now... #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/856094601450594304)
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[kevinmarks] The viewing lots of notes thing - the twitter export UI isn't bad - scrolling list per month, grid of months, search: kevinmarks.com/tweets (it is js;dr though)
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strk I was thinking (about "easier to deal with") that OpenID also support delegation
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strk so it really just takes adding a couple of <link> tags in your web page to be up and running with OpenID
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strk as long as you have an account on one of the existing (few and diminuishing) OpenID providing services (stackexchange is a prominent one at the moment)
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strk you'd still be logging in with your own website
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[colinwalker] @strk "few and diminishing" - that's the problem right there though. OpenID never seemed to catch on - the writing was on the wall and people wanted something different. Problem is, how wide with IndieAuth be adopted?
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[kevinmarks] I use indieauth to bridge openid
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[kevinmarks] That's how I sign up for gnusocial instances, for example
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[kevinmarks] (indieauth.com, and yes we need a name clarification)
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[kevinmarks] https://indieauth.com/openid
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strk corenominal: the "diminishing" part is really about people willing to setup an OpenID provider, more than anything else. And of the 2 "indie" projects I tried (Friendica and GNUSocial) one of them (GNUSocial) does act as an OpenID provider, so finding a provider to delegate to is as easy as registering to any of the existing GNUSocial nodes or setting up your own
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strk [kevinmarks]: *now* I also proxy indieauth to openid (my own openid) with the indieauth-openid proxy
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strk but I've yet to find a useful service requiring indieauth to login, to be honest
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strk so I think my crusade will keep being spreading OpenID for now :P
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strk like, it would be great if indieauth.com could be used as an OpenID provider
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strk *and* it would be great if RelMeAuth (proto) would also support any OpenID in addition to OAuth2 endpoints
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strk just to make the indie world a bit more connected
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amz3` how can I build my own indie website?
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amz3` I must start by building a regular blog then add indiewebify things?
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amz3` sorry for the stupid question
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amz3` it seems overwhelming
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amz3` should I use indieauth to log to my own website?
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amz3` Is this #indieweb? I yes it is
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amz3` Q: should I use indieauth to log to my own website?
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strk amz3`: welcome :)
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strk amz3`: I think the idea of the "indie web" is to allow others to login into your website by still retainign their independence from big players on the web (correct me if I'm wrong)
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strk or more generally to allow interaction (not necessarely "login into your website")
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dgold I think that's more correctly described as a side-effect of indieweb, strk/amz3
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dgold http://tinyurl.com/mov232b [ https://indieweb.org/Principles ]
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Loqi principles
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strk beside the "UX design is more important than protocols", I pretty much like those principles :)
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dgold amz3`: get yourself a 'space' on the internet
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dgold own that space, make that space _yours_
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dgold once you've done that, then you can start adding on elements that establish your `indieweb`
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strk so amz3` I guess you should start by owning a domain or a static IP or finding a way to find your stuff on the web otherwise ?
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amz3` I have that
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dgold https://indiewebify.me/
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strk btw, take a look at zeronet if you hadn't
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strk that's the quickest and cheapest way to "get your space"
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strk which is: your space is on your computer, people who like to see your space can easily setup a synced clone (and same you can do for others)
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strk it's a p2p "web"
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strk dunno if the indieweb community has any wiki page about that
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dgold strk: but zeronet is a protocol that does not have widespread acceptance or adoption
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dgold what is zeronet
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Loqi zeronet is a decentralized web serving tool based on Bittorrent and Bitcoin addresses http://zeronet.io/ https://indieweb.org/zeronet
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strk dgold: principles do not mention popularity as being a goal, right ?
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strk UX is also neat, btw :)
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KartikPrabhu amz3`: what is your URL?
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strk uhm, I tried logging in on indieauth.com (the wiki) via text browser but it fails at the stage in which it asks you to select which method (which rel-me link) to use for authenticating :(
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strk http://strk.kbt.io/tmp/indieauth_signin_links.txt
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amz3` nevermind I will first build a website that is useful to me and then think about interoperate it with indieweb
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strk +1
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KartikPrabhu amz3`: yes that is a good way to go
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strk still I think protocols are really important when you want to interoperate
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strk it's probably the main reason why I setup my first non-self-made thing on my website (a wordpress blog): being able to publish my articles on an aggregator, via rss
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KartikPrabhu strk: maybe but starting with protocols is not a great idea
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KartikPrabhu mostly people simply want to read/write/interact on the Web. doesn't matter what protocol is used
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strk it does matter, when indieauth.com asks me who I am (to authetnicate) and then fails to let me in
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strk also the web would not exist if it wasn't for a well-defined protocol
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KartikPrabhu i am not saying they don't matter
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KartikPrabhu but when someone asks "how do I get on the indieweb" starting off with protocols is a bad idea
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strk agreed
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[jeremycherfas] @amz3` There is a CMS called Known -- withknown.com -- that is equipped for a lot of indieweb things out of the box and that some of us use. If you have a domain and a host, it is quite easy to set up.
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amz3` [jeremycherfas]: my interest is much about coding something useful. I already have blog but it's static http://hyperdev.fr/
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KartikPrabhu amz3`: why not make your blog indieweb-compatible?
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@jgmac1106 @aaronpk @Wunderlist paper and/or Post it notes, the OG indie to-do list, #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/856131556963999748)
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KartikPrabhu instead of trying to code something from scratch
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strk "Known is a social learning platform." ?
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amz3` yes, I could do that...
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@jgmac1106 @aaronpk @Wunderlist And isn't @ginatrapani original todo.txt an open source to-do list? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/856131863810895873)
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KartikPrabhu amz3`: it would be a good place to start, then you could move onto coding other things
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amz3` what other things?
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KartikPrabhu strk: Known has been focusing on the "education sector" for a while now
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KartikPrabhu amz3`: whatever ideas you might have. but your blog seems like a good place to start implementing indieweb
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strk KartikPrabhu: what's your website ? (I'm curious to see Known in action)
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KartikPrabhu strk: I am https://kartikprabhu.com/ but i don't use Known
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KartikPrabhu what is Known?
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Loqi Known is an open publishing / community platform project https://indieweb.org/Known
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KartikPrabhu for Known see https://indieweb.org/Known#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk strk: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-04-23/1492947699907000 IndieAuth.com *can* be used as an OpenID provider https://indieauth.com/openid
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Loqi [strk] like, it would be great if indieauth.com could be used as an OpenID provider
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aaronpk i got a lot of people switching from myOpenID to IndieAuth.com in order to log in to stack exchange sites
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strk aaronpk: only as an OpenID 1.0 provider, if I read it correclty
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strk try it on try.gitea.io
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strk which only supports OpenID-2.0
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strk ( stackexchange also supports OpenID-2.0, and provides it too )
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aaronpk Clearly I should have just called IndieAuth "OpenID 3" ;-)
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strk I've yet to understand the difference from OpenID, so far I've only heard it's easier to implement
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aaronpk it is easier to implement, it's based on OAuth 2, so it can also be used for authorization
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strk oh aaronpk ... I noticed you post on twitter with no backlink to homeplace, are those posts really going directly to twitter or is just a POSSE lacking setup you have ?
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strk OpenID-Connect (someone could call that "OpenID 3") is also based on OAuth2
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strk it's what openid.net publishes as superceeding OpenID 2.
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aaronpk yes that's why I'm not interested in OpenID 2
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strk but there are many people already setup with OpenID 2
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aaronpk My posting/POSSE setup is described here https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/12/9/my-website
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strk (not so many, maybe, with openid 3, especially as it makes it harder to be independent, due to lack of provider-side implementations)
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] A Brief Intro to My Website Architecture
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dgold aaronpk: taskpaper? (wunderlist news)
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dgold plain textfiles, pretty simple to understand
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skippy silo.pub ssl cert has expired.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: yes, silo.pub's dev has not been focussed on indieweb stuff for a bit
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strk aaronpk: I tought part of POSSE was the link-back
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KartikPrabhu i don't think there are any strict rules about POSSE
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skippy aaronpk is running his how instance of silo.pub; but the docs for the silo.pub repo are a bit lacking.
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strk I get from your blogk that part is done by silo.pub ?
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skippy trying to educate myself on options.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: what are you looking to do?
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skippy POSSE to Twitter, mostly.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: you can try Bridgy publish
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skippy I'm intrigued by brid.gy, but i'd like to explore controlling the service(s) myself if i can.
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strk I guess backlinks in twitter would be hard, given the limit
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skippy brid.gy looks pretty neat, but it also feels like a silo in its own right.
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strk what is a silo ?
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Loqi A silo, or web content hosting silo, in the context of the IndieWeb, is a centralized web site typically owned by a for-profit corporation that stakes some claim to content contributed to it and restricts access in some way (has walls) https://indieweb.org/silo
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Links 23/4/2017: End of arkOS, Collabora Office 5.3 Released" by Dr. Roy Schestowitz on 2017-04-23 http://techrights.org/2017/04/23/end-of-arkos/
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KartikPrabhu skippy: I am sure you can run your own bridgy instance
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skippy i'm less interested in backlinks to start. maybe i'll get there.
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KartikPrabhu what is bridgy?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/bridgy
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skippy KartikPrabhu: sure. I bet I could. but it also does a ton of stuff for which I have no need. I dont have a facebook account or instagram. Just twitter.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: then I guess you want to interact with the Twitter API directly. silo.pub also has a lot of stuff
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skippy like i said, i'm still exploring, and figuring out what i want. just dipping my toes into the indieweb waters.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: of course
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skippy i likely dont need an always-on service. i could do some scheduled / async stuff, too.
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strk skippy: what would your main hosting facility for your microposts ?
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strk *be
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strk as I've read GNUSocial has a post-to-twitter plugin (but did not try it)
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skippy strk: my web sites. https://skippy.net and https://skippy.is
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Loqi Scott Merrill h
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skippy hrm. loqi doesnt like my links.
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strk uhm, those posts are a bit long for twitter, do you have a micropost specific section skippy ?
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aaronpk Bridgy isn't a silo because it doesn't actually store any data. It's a service
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strk or would you just want to micropost a few words and a linkback ?
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aaronpk skippy.is is a neat idea!
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aaronpk Kind of like checkins?
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skippy strk: skippy.is is what i'm looking to post to twitter, first. maybe the longform posts on .net might get a "hey, i wrote this thing" linked to twitter
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skippy aaronpk: super lame self-built "this is what I'm doing" thing, sinc ei dont use instagram
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KartikPrabhu skippy: well I think it is pretty cool and not super lame
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strk hey, it's 7 months, do you have so much blood ? :)
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skippy the vampires got me!
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aaronpk Yeah i agree, it's awesome!
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skippy thanks!
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KartikPrabhu skippy: also POSSEing longer posts to Twitter as a summary is also good
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skippy nods
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strk is that what some refer to as "status" ?
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strk cloudly thinks OStatus protocol was meant to publish those
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strk I see there are a few twitter clients that could be used by your tools
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strk like: twidge - Unix Command-Line Twitter and Identica Client
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skippy yeah, i've looked at some of those. haven't dug in too deep yet.
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strk I think to understand it takes an OAuth2 capable client to talk to twitter, and has to be signaled/enabled on the twitter side
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strk but I don't see twitter showing how the message got in, which makes it hard to link back
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strk unless you really just post the link as part of the 140 chars
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skippy that's the current plan.
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aaronpk Twitter is OAuth 1, not 2, just to confuse things more ;-)
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strk ah, ok :)
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strk so much for "protocols are not important" :)
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aaronpk Protocols are important. UX is *more* important
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strk UX depends on protocols too
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strk for example, having to type your own website address is a painful user experience
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KartikPrabhu by that argument physics is the most important thing otherwise there would be no universe for protocols ;)
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strk it'd be surely great to improve that somewhoe (needs to be some support built into the browser, I guess)
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strk KartikPrabhu: exactly ! you got my point :)
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KartikPrabhu no, :P
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@aaronpk @aaronsaray I know several people who use it with a Jekyll site to fetch comments and build them in to the page. https://indieweb.org/webmention.io (twitter.com/_/status/856173118821244928)
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aaronpk so many aarons
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/23/5/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] @aaronsaray Check out the plugin at https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io and the comments here: https://www.aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/pondering-fallback-content/...
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ben_thatmustbeme makes a point to someday add aaron.thatmustbe.us
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi aaronpk: lol
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@Moturoais Have a #movie , #indiefilm , #indieweb Why not subMir to our Roku? Moturoais Home | CONTACT #indie https://www.moturoais.com/contac (twitter.com/_/status/856207425271103488)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Dallas on Twitter: "Been working on joining my WordPress site up to the Indieweb, and it’s rekindling my enthusiasm for the web. … https://t.co/lWt37VFu0b"" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-04-23 https://twitter.com/dallas/status/856043860174274560
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Perhaps I'm not quite reading your meaning properly, but I'm curious about the portion about your having turned off comments. I also notice your link" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/perhaps-im-not-quite-reading-your-meaning-properly-but-im
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked dallas's post: Been working on joining my WordPress site up to the Indieweb, and it’s rekindling my enthusiasm for the web." by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/liked-dallass-post-been-working-on-joining-my-wordpress-site
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[kevinmarks] site deaths << http://kottke.org/17/04/pour-some-out-for-the-sites-that-arent-here
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Loqi ok, I added "http://kottke.org/17/04/pour-some-out-for-the-sites-that-arent-here" to the "See Also" section of /site-deaths
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[colinwalker] @GWG Decided it's going to be too much hassle to unhook the parts causing me problems as the plugin works differently to how I was expecting (mapping to formats rather than tweaking them.)
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[colinwalker] Instead I'm using some code in functions.php to auto add markup for Reply and Like when a post is saved.
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[colinwalker] URL is added to a custom field, pulled in to the post content on save then deleted so it doesn't get added twice.
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miklb [colinwalker] you can create your own kind_views/kind-reply.php template in your theme to markup them up how you want. Is that not what you want?
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miklb or have a generic kind.php to do all of them and override the plugins template.
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GWG Do you prefer static to dynamic?
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GWG I had thought about a static option because people might uninstall
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[colinwalker] miklb as I only really wanted likes and replies it seemed a bit much to reproduce templates for other post types (article and status) to avoid the display issues I was having when I can add a small function to just add what I needed.
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[colinwalker] @GWG I prefer dynamic
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GWG You don't have to, you can just write a generic template.
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[colinwalker] Yeah but I use different post types so wouldn't that cause me problems? Maybe I'm not understanding that properly.
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GWG I built a template system that only affects the piece the plugin adds to the content
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[colinwalker] Ah, I see (I think) Maybe I'll go back to it at some point but I've managed to do what I need for now.
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[colinwalker] Thanks.
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[colinwalker] Anyway, it's nearly 1am so I'd better say goodnight
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GWG I am heading to your timezone