#indieweb 2017-04-23

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@dallas
Been working on joining my WordPress site up to the Indieweb, and it’s rekindling my enthusiasm for the web. … https://idallas.com/t/RT
(twtr.io/1QweqpokLhf)
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@kevinmarks
#ownyourdata applies to commercial organisations as well as individuals: http://digiday.com/media/guardian-pulls-facebooks-instant-articles-apple-news/ #indieweb
(twtr.io/1QwviemgEX_)
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[dgold]
Huh, we still don't even have apple news. Nice to see another product dying before we even get a look at it...
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@mapkyca
Can anyone suggest a javascript library to do link preview / url unfurling? Seems like something that should be solved by now... #indieweb
(twtr.io/1QwxyPWgdR4)
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[kevinmarks]
The viewing lots of notes thing - the twitter export UI isn't bad - scrolling list per month, grid of months, search: kevinmarks.com/tweets (it is js;dr though)
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strk
I was thinking (about "easier to deal with") that OpenID also support delegation
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strk
so it really just takes adding a couple of <link> tags in your web page to be up and running with OpenID
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strk
as long as you have an account on one of the existing (few and diminuishing) OpenID providing services (stackexchange is a prominent one at the moment)
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strk
you'd still be logging in with your own website
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[colinwalker]
@strk "few and diminishing" - that's the problem right there though. OpenID never seemed to catch on - the writing was on the wall and people wanted something different. Problem is, how wide with IndieAuth be adopted?
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[kevinmarks]
I use indieauth to bridge openid
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[kevinmarks]
That's how I sign up for gnusocial instances, for example
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[kevinmarks]
(indieauth.com, and yes we need a name clarification)
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strk
corenominal: the "diminishing" part is really about people willing to setup an OpenID provider, more than anything else. And of the 2 "indie" projects I tried (Friendica and GNUSocial) one of them (GNUSocial) does act as an OpenID provider, so finding a provider to delegate to is as easy as registering to any of the existing GNUSocial nodes or setting up your own
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strk
[kevinmarks]: *now* I also proxy indieauth to openid (my own openid) with the indieauth-openid proxy
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strk
but I've yet to find a useful service requiring indieauth to login, to be honest
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strk
so I think my crusade will keep being spreading OpenID for now :P
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strk
like, it would be great if indieauth.com could be used as an OpenID provider
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strk
*and* it would be great if RelMeAuth (proto) would also support any OpenID in addition to OAuth2 endpoints
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strk
just to make the indie world a bit more connected
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amz3`
how can I build my own indie website?
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amz3`
I must start by building a regular blog then add indiewebify things?
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amz3`
sorry for the stupid question
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amz3`
it seems overwhelming
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amz3`
should I use indieauth to log to my own website?
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amz3`
Is this #indieweb? I yes it is
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amz3`
Q: should I use indieauth to log to my own website?
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strk
amz3`: welcome :)
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strk
amz3`: I think the idea of the "indie web" is to allow others to login into your website by still retainign their independence from big players on the web (correct me if I'm wrong)
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strk
or more generally to allow interaction (not necessarely "login into your website")
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dgold
I think that's more correctly described as a side-effect of indieweb, strk/amz3
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Loqi
principles
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strk
beside the "UX design is more important than protocols", I pretty much like those principles :)
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dgold
amz3`: get yourself a 'space' on the internet
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dgold
own that space, make that space _yours_
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dgold
once you've done that, then you can start adding on elements that establish your `indieweb`
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strk
so amz3` I guess you should start by owning a domain or a static IP or finding a way to find your stuff on the web otherwise ?
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amz3`
I have that
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strk
btw, take a look at zeronet if you hadn't
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strk
that's the quickest and cheapest way to "get your space"
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strk
which is: your space is on your computer, people who like to see your space can easily setup a synced clone (and same you can do for others)
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strk
it's a p2p "web"
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strk
dunno if the indieweb community has any wiki page about that
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dgold
strk: but zeronet is a protocol that does not have widespread acceptance or adoption
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dgold
what is zeronet
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Loqi
zeronet is a decentralized web serving tool based on Bittorrent and Bitcoin addresses http://zeronet.io/ https://indieweb.org/zeronet
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strk
dgold: principles do not mention popularity as being a goal, right ?
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strk
UX is also neat, btw :)
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KartikPrabhu
amz3`: what is your URL?
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strk
uhm, I tried logging in on indieauth.com (the wiki) via text browser but it fails at the stage in which it asks you to select which method (which rel-me link) to use for authenticating :(
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amz3`
nevermind I will first build a website that is useful to me and then think about interoperate it with indieweb
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strk
+1
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KartikPrabhu
amz3`: yes that is a good way to go
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strk
still I think protocols are really important when you want to interoperate
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strk
it's probably the main reason why I setup my first non-self-made thing on my website (a wordpress blog): being able to publish my articles on an aggregator, via rss
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KartikPrabhu
strk: maybe but starting with protocols is not a great idea
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KartikPrabhu
mostly people simply want to read/write/interact on the Web. doesn't matter what protocol is used
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strk
it does matter, when indieauth.com asks me who I am (to authetnicate) and then fails to let me in
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strk
also the web would not exist if it wasn't for a well-defined protocol
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KartikPrabhu
i am not saying they don't matter
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KartikPrabhu
but when someone asks "how do I get on the indieweb" starting off with protocols is a bad idea
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strk
agreed
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[jeremycherfas]
@amz3` There is a CMS called Known -- withknown.com -- that is equipped for a lot of indieweb things out of the box and that some of us use. If you have a domain and a host, it is quite easy to set up.
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amz3`
[jeremycherfas]: my interest is much about coding something useful. I already have blog but it's static http://hyperdev.fr/
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KartikPrabhu
amz3`: why not make your blog indieweb-compatible?
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@jgmac1106
@aaronpk @Wunderlist paper and/or Post it notes, the OG indie to-do list, #indieweb
(twtr.io/1QxBAUbMUp8)
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KartikPrabhu
instead of trying to code something from scratch
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strk
"Known is a social learning platform." ?
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amz3`
yes, I could do that...
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@jgmac1106
@aaronpk @Wunderlist And isn't @ginatrapani original todo.txt an open source to-do list? #indieweb
(twtr.io/1QxBH3CoxjZ)
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KartikPrabhu
amz3`: it would be a good place to start, then you could move onto coding other things
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amz3`
what other things?
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KartikPrabhu
strk: Known has been focusing on the "education sector" for a while now
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KartikPrabhu
amz3`: whatever ideas you might have. but your blog seems like a good place to start implementing indieweb
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strk
KartikPrabhu: what's your website ? (I'm curious to see Known in action)
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KartikPrabhu
strk: I am https://kartikprabhu.com/ but i don't use Known
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KartikPrabhu
what is Known?
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Loqi
Known is an open publishing / community platform project https://indieweb.org/Known
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Loqi
[strk] like, it would be great if indieauth.com could be used as an OpenID provider
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aaronpk
i got a lot of people switching from myOpenID to IndieAuth.com in order to log in to stack exchange sites
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strk
aaronpk: only as an OpenID 1.0 provider, if I read it correclty
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strk
try it on try.gitea.io
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strk
which only supports OpenID-2.0
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strk
( stackexchange also supports OpenID-2.0, and provides it too )
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aaronpk
Clearly I should have just called IndieAuth "OpenID 3" ;-)
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strk
I've yet to understand the difference from OpenID, so far I've only heard it's easier to implement
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aaronpk
it is easier to implement, it's based on OAuth 2, so it can also be used for authorization
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strk
oh aaronpk ... I noticed you post on twitter with no backlink to homeplace, are those posts really going directly to twitter or is just a POSSE lacking setup you have ?
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strk
OpenID-Connect (someone could call that "OpenID 3") is also based on OAuth2
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strk
it's what openid.net publishes as superceeding OpenID 2.
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aaronpk
yes that's why I'm not interested in OpenID 2
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strk
but there are many people already setup with OpenID 2
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aaronpk
My posting/POSSE setup is described here https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/12/9/my-website
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strk
(not so many, maybe, with openid 3, especially as it makes it harder to be independent, due to lack of provider-side implementations)
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] A Brief Intro to My Website Architecture
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dgold
aaronpk: taskpaper? (wunderlist news)
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dgold
plain textfiles, pretty simple to understand
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skippy
silo.pub ssl cert has expired.
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: yes, silo.pub's dev has not been focussed on indieweb stuff for a bit
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strk
aaronpk: I tought part of POSSE was the link-back
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KartikPrabhu
i don't think there are any strict rules about POSSE
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skippy
aaronpk is running his how instance of silo.pub; but the docs for the silo.pub repo are a bit lacking.
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strk
I get from your blogk that part is done by silo.pub ?
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skippy
trying to educate myself on options.
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: what are you looking to do?
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skippy
POSSE to Twitter, mostly.
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: you can try Bridgy publish
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skippy
I'm intrigued by brid.gy, but i'd like to explore controlling the service(s) myself if i can.
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strk
I guess backlinks in twitter would be hard, given the limit
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skippy
brid.gy looks pretty neat, but it also feels like a silo in its own right.
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strk
what is a silo ?
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Loqi
A silo, or web content hosting silo, in the context of the IndieWeb, is a centralized web site typically owned by a for-profit corporation that stakes some claim to content contributed to it and restricts access in some way (has walls) https://indieweb.org/silo
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Links 23/4/2017: End of arkOS, Collabora Office 5.3 Released" by Dr. Roy Schestowitz on 2017-04-23 http://techrights.org/2017/04/23/end-of-arkos/
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: I am sure you can run your own bridgy instance
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skippy
i'm less interested in backlinks to start. maybe i'll get there.
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KartikPrabhu
what is bridgy?
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Loqi
Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/bridgy
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skippy
KartikPrabhu: sure. I bet I could. but it also does a ton of stuff for which I have no need. I dont have a facebook account or instagram. Just twitter.
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: then I guess you want to interact with the Twitter API directly. silo.pub also has a lot of stuff
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skippy
like i said, i'm still exploring, and figuring out what i want. just dipping my toes into the indieweb waters.
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: of course
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skippy
i likely dont need an always-on service. i could do some scheduled / async stuff, too.
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strk
skippy: what would your main hosting facility for your microposts ?
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strk
*be
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strk
as I've read GNUSocial has a post-to-twitter plugin (but did not try it)
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Loqi
Scott Merrill h
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skippy
hrm. loqi doesnt like my links.
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strk
uhm, those posts are a bit long for twitter, do you have a micropost specific section skippy ?
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aaronpk
Bridgy isn't a silo because it doesn't actually store any data. It's a service
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strk
or would you just want to micropost a few words and a linkback ?
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aaronpk
skippy.is is a neat idea!
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aaronpk
Kind of like checkins?
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skippy
strk: skippy.is is what i'm looking to post to twitter, first. maybe the longform posts on .net might get a "hey, i wrote this thing" linked to twitter
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skippy
aaronpk: super lame self-built "this is what I'm doing" thing, sinc ei dont use instagram
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: well I think it is pretty cool and not super lame
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strk
hey, it's 7 months, do you have so much blood ? :)
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skippy
the vampires got me!
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aaronpk
Yeah i agree, it's awesome!
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skippy
thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
skippy: also POSSEing longer posts to Twitter as a summary is also good
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strk
is that what some refer to as "status" ?
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strk
cloudly thinks OStatus protocol was meant to publish those
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strk
I see there are a few twitter clients that could be used by your tools
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strk
like: twidge - Unix Command-Line Twitter and Identica Client
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skippy
yeah, i've looked at some of those. haven't dug in too deep yet.
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strk
I think to understand it takes an OAuth2 capable client to talk to twitter, and has to be signaled/enabled on the twitter side
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strk
but I don't see twitter showing how the message got in, which makes it hard to link back
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strk
unless you really just post the link as part of the 140 chars
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skippy
that's the current plan.
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aaronpk
Twitter is OAuth 1, not 2, just to confuse things more ;-)
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strk
ah, ok :)
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strk
so much for "protocols are not important" :)
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aaronpk
Protocols are important. UX is *more* important
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strk
UX depends on protocols too
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strk
for example, having to type your own website address is a painful user experience
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KartikPrabhu
by that argument physics is the most important thing otherwise there would be no universe for protocols ;)
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strk
it'd be surely great to improve that somewhoe (needs to be some support built into the browser, I guess)
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strk
KartikPrabhu: exactly ! you got my point :)
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@aaronpk
@aaronsaray I know several people who use it with a Jekyll site to fetch comments and build them in to the page. https://indieweb.org/webmention.io
(twtr.io/1QxS1HVnEh8)
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aaronpk
so many aarons
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ben_thatmustbeme
makes a point to someday add aaron.thatmustbe.us
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Loqi
aaronpk: lol
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@Moturoais
Have a #movie , #indiefilm , #indieweb Why not subMir to our Roku? Moturoais Home | CONTACT #indie https://www.moturoais.com/contac
(twtr.io/1QxdGasPzrU)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Dallas on Twitter: "Been working on joining my WordPress site up to the Indieweb, and it’s rekindling my enthusiasm for the web. … https://t.co/lWt37VFu0b"" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-04-23 https://twitter.com/dallas/status/856043860174274560
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Perhaps I'm not quite reading your meaning properly, but I'm curious about the portion about your having turned off comments. I also notice your link" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/perhaps-im-not-quite-reading-your-meaning-properly-but-im
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Liked dallas's post: Been working on joining my WordPress site up to the Indieweb, and it’s rekindling my enthusiasm for the web." by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/liked-dallass-post-been-working-on-joining-my-wordpress-site
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[colinwalker]
@GWG Decided it's going to be too much hassle to unhook the parts causing me problems as the plugin works differently to how I was expecting (mapping to formats rather than tweaking them.)
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[colinwalker]
Instead I'm using some code in functions.php to auto add markup for Reply and Like when a post is saved.
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[colinwalker]
URL is added to a custom field, pulled in to the post content on save then deleted so it doesn't get added twice.
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miklb
[colinwalker] you can create your own kind_views/kind-reply.php template in your theme to markup them up how you want. Is that not what you want?
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miklb
or have a generic kind.php to do all of them and override the plugins template.
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GWG
Do you prefer static to dynamic?