#indieweb 2017-07-14

2017-07-14 UTC
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[chrisaldrich]
Welcome dylanon
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[dylanon]
Thank you! Any jekyll users here who have micropub support?
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[chrisaldrich]
What is Jekyll?
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Loqi
Jekyll is Ruby software that helps you create "Simple, blog-aware, static sites" suitable for static domain hosting https://indieweb.org/Jekyll
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[chrisaldrich]
I'm pretty sure a number of people on ^^ have micropub support.
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KartikPrabhu
what is micropub?
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Loqi
Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Recommendation) that is used to create, update, and delete posts on one's own domain using third-party clients, and supersedes both MetaWeblog and AtomPub https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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aaronpk
good evening
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Loqi
aaronpk: sl007 left you a message 4 hours, 13 minutes ago: tantek - I would also quickly like to find money for indieweb and write 3 letters to german institutions (I am Alumni at a cultural foundation governed by public law and got a grant for the refugees project from our copyright collecting society and now a friend joined Mercator foundation - apart from "history" summary, may I name you as those "experts having a designate expertise" (what would be needed to fill in at the
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aaronpk
!tell sl007 I'm not quite sure I understand the request, but generally I am happy to support you doing this, so the answer is probably yes!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
petermolnar: Used some of your old ideas on EXIF data for my location plugin. Thank you.
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[miklb]
dylanon it may be linked to on /Jekyll but I had micropub using this microservice by voxpelli https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github/
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[dylanon]
Thanks. Would I need to run node.js on my server to use this? Have come across it before but have had difficulty figuring out exactly how to use it. I have basic shared hosting (no node support) so I think I need a PHP-based implementation. Something like this I guess? https://gist.github.com/adactio/8168e6b78da7b16a4644
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[miklb]
You wouldn’t need to run node on your server, there’s a one-click deploy to heroku option.
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ben_thatmustbeme
Follow this bot and it will follow you back, then any tweet you post with a link in it, it will authorization submit to the internet archive
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ben_thatmustbeme
Do that with bridgy and have it include the links back yup the original
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ben_thatmustbeme
Bam, every post automatically goes to the internet archive
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Ruxton
or you can just ping the internet archiver from your blog
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Loqi
Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-07-14.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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ben_thatmustbeme
Yeah, it's just another way to do it, and it's a way you may be doing already. Literally just hitting a follow button
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TheGillies
Woo just used indieauth with kodo.keybase.pub
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TheGillies
just me or is http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry missing a </p> tag?
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
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TheGillies
"<p>Published by <a class="p-author h-card" href="http://example.com">W. Developer</a>
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TheGillies
on <time class="dt-published" datetime="2013-06-13 12:00:00">13<sup>th</sup> June 2013</time>"
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aaronpk
TheGillies: your avatar URL is missing a /
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jjuran
TheGillies: The end tag for the <p> element is optional if it can be deduced from context.
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TheGillies
aaronpk: derp good catch
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gRegorLove
That microformats.org html is fixed now
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cweiske
strk, your homepage is really outdated
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strk
cweiske: style-wise ? Or content-wise ? See "whats new" section :)
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cweiske
content-wise
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cweiske
ascii-ribbon domain is dead
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strk
but yes, it's been some time I don't write anything
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strk
oh, that one I should really drop (I did drop it from mail signature)
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strk
cweiske: removed, better now ?
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strk
(pushed w/out testing)
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cweiske
$Id: index.html,v 1.30 2008/12/10 08:32:50 strk Exp $
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cweiske
I somehow completely did not see "whatsnew | blog" on the top
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cweiske
and only looked at the link list lower down
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strk
one day before I'm dead I'll have to learn to turn that "whatsnew" into a proper feed :P
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strk
btw, following latest disk crash I lost my web-signin/openid gateway (was it you the author ? I lost track)
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cweiske
yes, I made the indieauth-openid proxy
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cweiske
maybe we should add native indieauth support to simpleid
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strk
IIRC the author was working on v2 to add OpenID Connect
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strk
(incompatible with V1)
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@kevinmarks
Nice to see this new member of the #indieweb community https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/885776126148083712
(twtr.io/1TtgDD1nRnk)
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jeremycherfas
Good morning Indieweb
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petermolnar
hi jeremy
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sl007
Good morning indieweb.
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Loqi
sl007: aaronpk left you a message 7 hours, 30 minutes ago: I'm not quite sure I understand the request, but generally I am happy to support you doing this, so the answer is probably yes!
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sl007
petermolnar How about you and https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund ? CAMPFIRE ? EU is missing you ;)
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petermolnar
given that I'm a Hungarian in the UK, I can totally understand that the EU is missing me :D joke aside, that weekend is already booked by family
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Zegnat
Stop with all the Dortmund talk, I am envious I of everyone going :p
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[pfefferle]
good morning
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petermolnar
hi [pfefferle]
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[pfefferle]
hey petermolnar
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sl007
What is the best implemented protocol/tech/device that can tell your phone things when you are near a spot? E.g. at an excellent festival?
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petermolnar
but define near
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sl007
10m radius would be already fine, thankyou !
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petermolnar
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14757722 - I really wonder if it's possible in any way to address this with indie solutions; I miss the old radio algorithm of last.fm, which always recommended the next thing based solely on the current track; yes, sometimes it slipped far away from the original thing you listened to, but this way, it let you discover new things
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Loqi
[cameldrv] The problem is the economics of the Internet today. Most sites are ad-funded. They need to maximize pageviews and time on site. The recommender is a huge part of accomplishing that, and it simply won't be tuned to any metric other than maximizing ...
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Loqi
misses the old radio algorithm of last too
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@kevinmarks
@joshu @Pinboard We have that for you, just add them here: https://indieweb.org/site-deaths Should we feed a pinboard hashtag?
(twtr.io/1Tu3YCwv_FU)
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sebsel
Interesting: a friend of mine was inspired by my website and now uses IFTTT to get posts from his various silo accounts to the Mac journaling app DayOne. That way he has a personal archive, without having it all publicly online.
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Loqi
sebsel: sketchess left you a message 17 hours, 18 minutes ago: add me, thank you very much :)
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sebsel
He has his own domain, where he blogs, so he is indieweb in that regard. And he owns his data (sort of, need to see how DayOne stores it), but he does not POSSE.
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sknebel
PESPA? (publish elsewhere, syndicate to private archive)
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petermolnar
what is PESPA?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "PESPA" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel
lol we need an arconym that makes a funny word :p
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sebsel
but yes
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petermolnar
I have a few things like that as well, not published on my site
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petermolnar
eg. automated last.fm exports
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petermolnar
and it makes complete sense
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strk
PESTO - Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate To Own space
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strk
it's an italian word (I just ate pasta with pesto)
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strk
*eat
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petermolnar
PASTA - publish anywhere, syndicate to archive
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sknebel
s/space/storage maybe, sounds more clearly non-public to me. but good
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strk
what is archive ?
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Loqi
archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indieweb.org/archive
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sknebel
What is PESTO?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "PESTO" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel
What is PESOS?
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Loqi
PESOS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate (to your) Own Site https://indieweb.org/pesos
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sebsel
I was checking in a lot on Swarm to have a location archive, but now I got aaronpk's GPS-logger + compass and I don't need to check in that much anymore :)
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sebsel
so I am having an archive there too
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sebsel
Also now considering to make my checkins private-with-login-for-friends
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petermolnar
that's not published anywhere
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Loqi
pasta has 1 karma
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sebsel
Oh that's right! good distinction
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petermolnar
so publish somewhere, but the personal copy doesn't go to your site (or anywhere else), it not re-published
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jeremycherfas
Publish Anywhere, Store To Archive
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sknebel
that's good
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petermolnar
what is PASTA?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "PASTA" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel
Which has the POSSE/PESOS benefits, but only for you. If the silo goes down, the information is still lost for the rest of the world
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sebsel
So it is a lesser strategy
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sebsel
Depending on what you value, of coursw
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sknebel
sebsel: not lesser
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petermolnar
PASTA is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Anywhere, Store to (private) Archive
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sknebel
petermolnar++
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Loqi
petermolnar has 26 karma in this channel (43 overall)
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sknebel
jeremycherfas++
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Loqi
jeremycherfas has 3 karma in this channel (4 overall)
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jeremycherfas
That actually raises an interesting point. I’m not that interested in sharing my sleep patterns, checkins or activity with the world, but I would hate to lose them completely. I could have them privately on my own site, of course, or just store them somewhere outside the silo that gathers them.
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petermolnar
what is private post?
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Loqi
private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen or previously approved by the author https://indieweb.org/private_post
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sebsel
jeremycherfas: yes! I might start doing that with ownyourswarm (i have private posts already), because checkins on Swarm are already friends-only
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sknebel
I personally wouldn't count/implement pieces I don't want to publish as "part of my site", but that's a personal choice as well (maybe having a unified interface to view them *is* valuable). I'm considering doing private bookmarks on my site, because I'd likely make some of them public or reference them from public posts
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sebsel
I have a monthly page now (https://seblog.nl/2017/7), and I get a lot of value out of that, so I am putting in more and more data, but more for myself than for other people. Makes sense for me to shield some of it off.
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Zegnat
That sounds pretty close to what aaronpk does, sebsel :)
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sebsel
Zegnat: but he has everything (sleep, checkins, trips) public, right?
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petermolnar
it'd be interesting to see a graph of aaronpk's site with everything included once
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petermolnar
(not sure my laptop could handle it :D)
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aaronpk
Mostly I have things public because it's easier than making them private lol
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aaronpk
hopefully I'll get private posts working one of these days and might lock down some of the data on there
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sebsel
lol, yeah, private posts and maintaining lists of audience is another problem in itself
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aaronpk
Omg cweiske i can't believe you've been archiving that lol
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sebsel
but it's worth trying, there is demand for it
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cweiske
I saw that one day on your homepage and wondered where those data came from
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sknebel
things I'd never put on a public endpoint, nr 3463
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aaronpk
my intent was not to share the domains but oh well
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sebsel
yeah, our sites, especially aaronpk's, are also a sort of showcase of what you can do with a personal site. Making half of it private damages that showcase function.
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aaronpk
Yeah I guess that's the other reason I haven't bothered to make some stuff private
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sebsel
but then again: I get reactions of 'I would never share that much' from other people, so maybe having a private part is also a showcase of some kind
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aaronpk
Very true
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Zegnat
I already get that for just my homepage, and I am not sharing my GPS or checkins at all
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Zegnat
There will always be people saying they would never share as much, no matter how little you share
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sebsel
You share other stuff I would never share that publicly Zegnat, especially your 'too much information' section ;)
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aaronpk
Same haha
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Loqi
aaronpk: lol
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Zegnat
There is also just stuff in there that is unnecessary sharing. I don’t feel it actually gives away very private information, it is just general information.
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sebsel
well it's information about *you*, as opposed to information about what you do/have done.
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Loqi
sebsel has 23 karma in this channel (32 overall)
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Zegnat
Yes, but no information I wouldn’t consider to be public. Comparison: I have no health related things listed. I thought about listing the prescription of my glasses and decided against that, for instance.
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sebsel
yes, some of the information you share is just strange to share because no-one cares.
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Zegnat
That I agree with ;)
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sebsel
But, when I say 'Seb is at Arnhem Central Station' (which is the case now) it still says nothing about me to someone who does not know me. There are plenty of people who can be at Arnhem CS now. And in a couple of minutes the train goes on and I am not there anymore, so the information is outdated anyway.
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sebsel
Stating that 'Seb is 2,03 meters tall', is way more identifying, and when the train moves on, it is still true.
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Zegnat
It is just people saying “I would never share those things” … well, my passport + CV has almost the exact same information as my homepage anyway. And even some things that aren’t on those documents would be important and needs to be shared with (potential) employers. E.g. I will not work in a space with dogs present.
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sebsel
I actually was hesitant to write that in the public chatlog here, because it does identify me and it will not change ever.
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sebsel
here, I am no more on Arnhem CS, but still 2,03 meters. That was fast :)
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petermolnar
sebsel 'Seb is at' also imlies you're not at Y - eg. at home - which is the reason why I don't share my location - otherwise it's easy to tell, where I am _not_ and, maybe, make a visit to my home while I'm somwhere else. (Yes, I was burglured once)
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sebsel
petermolnar: good point!
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Zegnat
I even keep holidays mostly off of Facebook - if I can - until I have returned. Especially since my home adress cannot be kept secret without a court order
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jjuran
sebsel: On the other hand, it tells people that you’re not at home.
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petermolnar
Zegnat indeed
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jjuran
What I’d like to do is limit not which information I share, but the scope of the set of people with whom I share it.
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sebsel
For burglers reading along: I have housemates and they might be home so keep out.
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petermolnar
jjuran that is one of the hard things yet to be solved
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Zegnat
Sweden is limiting in this case. The only way to keep me from doxing myself is by *never giving out my real name*. Because as soon as you have that, all bets are off unless I am able to request secret adress listings etc through the government.
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sebsel
jjuran: I want something like that yeah, but maintaining lists of people is a practical problem yet to be solved.
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petermolnar
(reminder, though it's probably fixed now: https://medium.com/faith-and-future/stalking-your-friends-with-facebook-messenger-9da8820bd27d is a reason why prevent any apps from leaking location information)
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jjuran
Well, there’s maintaing the list, and then there’s also the problem of selective distribution of the information
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Zegnat
There is also the inherit problem of storing the information in the first place.
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Zegnat
We all know how fragile webservers sometimes get
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petermolnar
jjuran owntracks tried to tackle this by letting you share your mqtt stream with others, which makes a lot of sense
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petermolnar
bakctitude has an option that if you let it read sms, it can receive & responsd to "share your location" if the sender is on the pre-approved list
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petermolnar
(can't type today, sorry for all the mistakes)
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jjuran
Zegnat: I’m not sure the World-Wide Web is the right tool for maintaining privacy :-)
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Zegnat
I thought about playing with that backtitude setting, petermolnar. But then I am suddenly using SMS as the protection? You can’t actually be sure where an SMS even originated from…
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jjuran
yeah, SMS is pants
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Zegnat
“Please generate an SSH key and send it to me, I will then give you access to a blackbox where you have access to a single command that will tell you where I am”
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petermolnar
Zegnat those who will go through the social engineering or the engineering to fake SMS-es probably already have access to other methods to get your location, don't you think?
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jjuran
This is something I’ve been thinking about: https://www.reticule.org/
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petermolnar
Zegnat you described autoreply with gpg mail
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jjuran
Admittedly, the initial focus is on public messages, and verifying authorship
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Zegnat
Yes, but I have basically given up on configuring GPG for my self already. Let alone my expectance of others to set it up
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jjuran
GPG has a couple problems. One is huge keys and signatures, and another is the gpg tool’s UI.
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petermolnar
oh, GPG and PGP has a ridiculous amount of problems
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jjuran
Here’s my answer to that: https://www.arcsign.org/
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jjuran
(which has nothing to do with ARC-Seal, or the band Arcsign)
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[miklb]
peeks in, sees lots of discussion of GPG & PGP and runs away
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Zegnat
We might have to move this to -chat
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Zegnat
Thanks for the pointer [miklb]!
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petermolnar
[miklb] lots?! we mentioned it in 3 lines :D
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jjuran
relatively speaking :-)
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[miklb]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[miklb]
for the record, it wasn’t meant as a nudge to move the discussion, just a discussion over my head
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sebsel
was out on GPG too
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sebsel
I want to learn about it, but it sounds -dev :)
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aaronpk
on a totally unrelated note
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aaronpk
i just got an email from twitter that says "you have been given permission to tweet from @adminforservice"
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aaronpk
i was not aware that permission worked that way
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[miklb]
ACL for Twitter accounts does sound new to me
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aaronpk
it's part of tweetdeck, but i've only seen that email the other way, when I add a new twtiter account to my tweetdeck, the account gets an email like "___ can now tweet from your account"
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@sl007
@CarstenStormer Bei Lanz geweint. Bitte : Könnt Ihr/Du ans Lagerfeuer kommen ? http://campfirefestival.org - wir https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund ?
(twtr.io/1TuED6eo6bp)
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[davidmead]
Are we preparing to add Soundcloud to the “silos that disappeared” page ?
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sl007
things I'd never put on a public endpoint, nr 138
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sl007
sknebel !tell aaronpk regarding ia domain naming, there are useful proposals
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sl007
Might be useful to reserve a / some domains before the evil bots (?)
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[miklb]
davidmead I’m holding out that Chance the Rapper rescues it.
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[davidmead]
miklb I hope someone does. Great stuff on there, but that’s never been enough to save things in the past
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@chancetherapper
I'm working on the SoundCloud thing
(twtr.io/1TsQRC0TSMs)
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sknebel
Internet Archive said they'd need ~2M$ to backup Soundcloud
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sl007
when we take into account that twitter gave a 70M$ credit …
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "W l’IndieWeb (e il plugin IndieWeb Post Kinds)" by pandemia@gmail.com (Luca Conti) on 2017-07-14 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Pandemia/~3/Lt8vcKMFvjU/
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@Printogoit
W l’IndieWeb (e il plugin IndieWeb Post Kinds): The blog looks like it's off… https://goo.gl/fb/5ELaoW #comunicazione
(twtr.io/1TuNk8uv3fo)
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tantek
good morning #indieweb!
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GWG
Hello, tantek
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snarfed
morning!
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Loqi
guten morgen
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[chrisaldrich]
reads logs and laughs at the acronym spaghetti being created ?
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sketchess
good morning / evening
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Explaining the test" by Colin Walker on 2017-07-14 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/07/14/explaining-the-test/
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Loqi
cweiske has 90 karma in this channel (108 overall)
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Loqi
[cweiske] I implemented my search engine because I thought it was cool to have my own search engine
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[dylanon]
Right. Haven't used Heroku before but it looks promising - thanks for clueing me in.
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[miklb]
Feel free to ping me or voxpelli in the indieweb channel if you have any questions. I soon going to be setting up another site and use jekyll again, so I’ll be setting it up again myself. I have a jekyll-indieweb theme that has basic micropub support https://github.com/miklb/jekyll-indieweb
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Loqi
[miklb] jekyll-indieweb: A Jekyll quick start to getting up and going with the IndieWeb
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[miklb]
could help get a jumpstart on adding to your own site.
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tantek
whoa tommorris showed up yesterday
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GWG
[miklb]: Abandoning us or multiple sites?
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tantek
heh lots of #indieweb-dev talk yesterday in #indieweb
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tantek
is still catching up on logs
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tantek
what is add to calendar
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "add to calendar" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek
^^^ schmarty
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tantek
as far as documenting the *UI* aspect
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[miklb]
GWG that’s mine, from before switching to WP. But I am probably going to set up a new Jekyll site for something else.
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Loqi
[miklb] jekyll-indieweb: A Jekyll quick start to getting up and going with the IndieWeb
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tantek
is finally catching up to the acronyms lol pesto vs pasta
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tantek
I do find some appeal to Publish Anywhere, Save To (your) Archive
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[miklb]
that’s analogous to PESOS?
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sebsel
what is PASTA?
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Loqi
PASTA is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Anywhere, Store to (private) Archive https://indieweb.org/PASTA
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sebsel
'Store to' does not sound right indeed, 'save to' is better.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Adventures in microblogging part 3" by john on 2017-07-14 http://johnjohnston.info/blog/adventures-in-microblogging-part-3/
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tantek
what is pasta
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Loqi
PASTA is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Anywhere, Save To (private) Archive, the practice of automatically saving a copy of whatever you post on (social media) silos to someplace else under your own control, like a private directory on your own server, or a local folder on your laptop that is less vulnerable to site-death https://indieweb.org/PASTA
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sknebel
miklb yes, PESOS but to a private target
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tantek
sknebel: except it's not "syndication" if you put it someplace private that no one else has access to, nor is there any intent of distribution
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tantek
hence why it deserves a different term than just a different kind of PESOS
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sknebel
Exactly
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GWG
So, PESTO and PASTA? Hmm...what other food acronyms can we add?
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tantek
no PESTO yet
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GWG
PESOS, PESTOS....Potato or alternate pronunciation of potato
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sebsel
SPAGETTI: Spinning up Pretty Acronyms to Get Everyone Thinking you’re Totally Interesting.
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aaronpk
sebsel++
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Loqi
sebsel has 24 karma in this channel (33 overall)
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sebsel
oops. there should be an H in that.
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sebsel
hides in #indieweb-chat
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sebsel
GWG: PESTO was one of the options, but PASTA worked better.
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[jeremycherfas]
Chrisaldrich++ for judicious use of "spaghetti".
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Loqi
chrisaldrich has 36 karma in this channel (48 overall)
prtksxna_, j12t, KartikPrabhu, gigitux, Anchakor, snarfed, dgold and wolftune joined the channel
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Zegnat
petermolnar you should add yourself as someone who does /PASTA and link to your write-up :)
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KartikPrabhu
what is PASTA?
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Loqi
PASTA is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Anywhere, Save To (private) Archive, the practice of automatically saving a copy of whatever you post on (social media) silos to someplace else under your own control, like a private directory on your own server, or a local folder on your laptop that is less vulnerable to site-death https://indieweb.org/PASTA
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@_dgoldsmith
I appear to have made a functioning Micropub endpoint #indieweb https://ascraeus.org/micro/1500061827
(twtr.io/1TuhvPU0JCH)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I appear to have made a functioning Micropub endpoint #indieweb" by dgold@ascraeus.org (Daniel Goldsmith) on 2017-07-14 https://ascraeus.org/micro/1500061827/
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[kevinmarks]
it's gillmor gang time
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[kevinmarks]
what's going on to talk about
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aaronpk
micro.blog iOS app was published, the first micropub client to be in the app store!
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[miklb]
speaking of micropub and iOS how goes your work eddie ?
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Loqi
Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-07-14.html
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sebsel
the micro.blog iOS app seems to need a Micro.blog account, so it's not so open as a Micropub app could be.
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aaronpk
yes that's true
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aaronpk
oh nooess Kongaloosh your SSL cert expired!
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aaronpk
*just now*
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[kevinmarks]
soundcloud site death
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snarfed
not yet
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sebsel
whoot it worked. such magic, my own micropub endpoint working together with an iOS app. https://seblog.nl/2017/07/14/11/testing-the-new-micro-blog
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Loqi
[Sebastiaan Andeweg] Testing the new Micro.blog iOS app over vega burgers. https://seblog.nl/thumbs/2017/195/11/01f2c6-image-1000x1000-blur.jpg
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "What if Medium were open source?" on 2017-07-14 http://scripting.com/2017/07/14.html#a033947
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@textfiles
Hi, The Web's Angel of Death here. I'm already getting dozens of "Soundcloud!!" notifies, don't add "NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT" to them https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEuPFxpXgAAcVtT.jpg
(twtr.io/1TumVNrYwfY)
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Zegnat
textfiles++
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Loqi
textfiles has 1 karma
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[miklb]
pretty cool seeing people setting up ownyourgram for micro.blog
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Loqi
Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-07-14.html
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@ChrisAldrich
@ChristophAdami Be sure to ask pubs for the right for personal digital distribution; many are now granting it https://indieweb.org/academic_samizdat#Examples_in_the_Wild
(twtr.io/1TuwAxfL6tt)
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@mathpunk
@holden I'm finally getting to the point I can soon go #indieweb and host these dumb little half-poems myself. I think it's worth doing.
(twtr.io/1Tv3gz2PYgb)
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[dylanon]
Thanks! Took your Heroku recommendation and I'm now up and running. Curious about your theme - will take a look!