#indieweb 2017-07-13

2017-07-13 UTC
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@DreamHost Have a wonderful evening @indiewebcamp at our #PDX office! We love sponsoring your monthly meetup! (twitter.com/_/status/885287713389334528)
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@priya_somani_ Have a wonderful evening indiewebcamp at our #PDX office! We love sponsoring your monthly meetup! (twitter.com/_/status/885290468929675265)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Indieweb Summit: Belated Thoughts" by David Shanske on 2017-07-13 https://david.shanske.com/2017/07/12/indieweb-summit-belated-thoughts/
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@dshanske Indieweb Summit: Belated Thoughts - https://di5.us/b/Rq (twitter.com/_/status/885291409787559937)
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[chrisaldrich] GWG++ for posting!
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Loqi gwg has 214 karma in this channel (253 overall)
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: It is quiet writing hour.
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GWG I'm writing quietly.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Are you handling the hangout URL?
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schmarty HWC Baltimore just wrapped! might join the virtual one a little late, once i get home.
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[chrisaldrich] GWG I can though I don't have access to the youtube channel if you want to record
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GWG So, I can do it then. I have access
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[chrisaldrich] That's probably better. I'm scrambling to get a monkey away for a bit so I can be free for the hour.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Need a banana
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GWG ?
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gRegorLove ring ring ring ring
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GWG http://youtu.be/V9RaT1bzorc - Live Stream
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GWG https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/nu3zwcimzbhxrmlxv343yq2zsme - Hangout
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tantek SF HWC has 3 people already
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aaronpk HWC PDX is off and running with 4 so far. we're gonna check back in at 6:30 for short demos of what we've been working on this evening
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[evan_sirchuk] So Google offers to option to claim a custom URL fro your google+ page for free.
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[evan_sirchuk] but if you click into the terms of service
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[evan_sirchuk] https://www.google.com/intl/en/+/policy/tos-custom-url.html
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[evan_sirchuk] they tell you basically, you can have it free for now.... but we can take it back whenever we want
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[evan_sirchuk] oh and we might start charging you for it
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@billbennettnz One of the indieweb features of my revamped website is that Twitter mentions are captured in the comments. (twitter.com/_/status/885307113018335232)
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[evan_sirchuk] glad i clicked on the TOS link, because it looks like a pretty innocuous page when your about to claim the URL.
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[evan_sirchuk] https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F67DULL7J/url-claim.png?pub_secret=42799fdb8d&name=url-claim.png
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[miklb] I wouldn’t be surprised if the Google+ terms said the same thing.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked:David Shanske" by Srikanth Perinkulam on 2017-07-13 https://srikanthperinkulam.com/2017/07/12/indieweb-summit/
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aaronpk PDX demo time
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aaronpk michellejl: went through her list of events she's attended and added URLs for them.
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aaronpk ... was frustrated at the events that re-use URLs year to year instead of posting year based permalinks
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aaronpk BigShip: (Mitch) read flask documentation and wrote a "hello world" app. then tried to build on that and now has an internal server error
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aaronpk anomalily: made a bullet point outline of the blog post she's writing about last weekend's event she ran
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aaronpk aaronpk: made checkins that had *only* a person tag stop showing up on the home page. now only checkins with hand-written text or a photo show up on the home page
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GWG Tell anomalily I'm going to write something based on my subscription to her feed.
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GWG Namely the ability to have an all and a not all feed.
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@billbennettnz How the internet breaks. site-deaths - IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/885312795339771904)
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tantek I showed RSVPs working on my indie events: http://tantek.com/2017/193/e1/homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club SF
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tantek and Anika noticed that Darius is showing up on my site but not on the FB copy
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tantek seems he changed his RSVP
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tantek but the update didn't propagate
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tantek I wonder if Bridgy detected that RSVP change and sent it?
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tantek Or if Webmention.io knows how to handle RSVP updates?
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aaronpk it should
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TheGillies Is it still indie web if you own your domain but your indie services are hosted by other people entirely?
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TheGillies Static site with JavaScript that talks to indie web services
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aaronpk sure! the important thing is that you can change what services you use behind the scenes without your visitors needing to know the new way of finding you online
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TheGillies What if I change domains like I change nicks?
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4pLnGJvw.jpg
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aaronpk Loqi++
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Loqi loqi has 61 karma in this channel (432 overall)
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aaronpk that's your call
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TheGillies Is webfinger considered indie web or is there an indie replacement for that?
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TheGillies I could list my other domains in profile
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aaronpk that sounds like rel=me links just like you'd link to twitter/github/etc
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TheGillies Irc needs a rel=me
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aaronpk yeah IRC URLs are a mess
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aaronpk i think tantek did some experiments with that tho
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/communication
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TheGillies Tempted to make a hex ed25519 subdomain
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TheGillies So my web identity is also my crypto identity
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aaronpk find a way to represent your ed25519 key in emoji then register a punycode version
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TheGillies They have emoji serialization but it only works if the third party is using same lib so its not really "emoji"
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billbennettnz The wiki isn't encouraging, but is there anything we can do to drag Disqus into the indieweb?
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aaronpk i doubt it... what's your goal with using disqus?
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aaronpk probably the lowest hanging fruit is letting people sign in with their domain to disqus, instead of requiring a disqus account or twitter/etc
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billbennettnz One of the sites that syndicates my blog uses Disqus, sometimes, not often, but sometimes, the best comments on a post are there, which i feel is a waste
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@aaronpk Hi from Homebrew Website Club PDX! #indieweb @DreamHost https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/885325472644476928/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/885325472644476928)
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aaronpk Feel free to add that to the wiki ^^
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tantek wrapping up!
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tantek (here in SF)
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gRegorLove Hm, apparently my registrar, Domainmonster, was acquired by 123 Reg.
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gRegorLove Maybe I should take this opportunity to switch to something else.
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gRegorLove Hover.com is looking good. Free whois privacy and "the more domains you have in your Hover account, the less you pay for renewals"
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gRegorLove Still a bit pricey. $14.99 vs Directnic's 7.99
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gRegorLove Nope, wait. Directnic's is only first year. Their renewal is also $15
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gRegorLove That's an annoying practice
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gRegorLove willnorris makes some good points: https://willnorris.com/2014/06/google-domains
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Loqi [Will Norris] Google Domains
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gRegorLove So maybe I'll try Google Domains
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gRegorLove Anybody else have experience with Google Domains?
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gRegorLove In other news, nice shareable URLs Apple? https://twitter.com/MeganMullally/status/885237821077835776
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@MeganMullally talking about my #chicago days on this ep ?? applewebdata://0147ECB0-0CF2-4981-972C-B742C8B1CD49/adbl.co/2t1F9Ul https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEj_G0pUQAAZES3.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/885237821077835776)
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[miklb] I use namecheap. Generally, I like them, just have had issues logging in. Haven’t been able to nail down why. Never recognizes that I have 2fa turned on and makes me use captchas and reset my password
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gRegorLove Huh, interesting.
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[miklb] Seems like if I go through a different login page than the sign in in the nav, it works. Seems like…
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[miklb] also, text only 2fa if that’s truly 2fa I’m still learning ins/outs of it
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gRegorLove SMS isn't the best, but it's better than just username/password. Did you see this story? https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-12#t1499881316115000
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Loqi [justin] Someone socially engineered AT&T to get a new SIM for my phone, signed into my Paypal (using 2FA) and withdrew a bunch of money. I am livid
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[miklb] yep, sure did.
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@ricmac My latest AltPlatform post discusses owning your own content & POSSE (an #IndieWeb term). http://altplatform.org/2017/07/12/archiving-posse/ (twitter.com/_/status/885351469536366592)
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TheGillies my new indie site [under construction] http://1bihfu22c97osswo4wo8ow0owgc04wwo4gocc04so4wgk0sgg0.fairuse.org/
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bignose TheGillies: DNS doesn't resolve that domain for me.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The value of explaining yourself" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-13 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/the-value-of-explaining-yourself
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Loqi [superfeedr] "? I'm now a proud supporter of IndieWeb. You should support them too! https://opencollective.com/indieweb #opencollective" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-11 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/-im-now-a-proud-supporter-of-indieweb-you-should
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[pfefferle] good morning
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Loqi good morning!
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cweiske good morning
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sl007 good morning
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TheGillies bignose: i changed it because my algorithm was wrong
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TheGillies I think I'm gonna use d2a544091fa322efda4e919b1e3f141005b84a46.fairuse.org
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cweiske :/ the streak ended with TheGillies
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TheGillies cccccombo breaker
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Zegnat good morning
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Zegnat oh, too late ;)
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jeremycherfas Morning Indieweb
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jeremycherfas catches up on last night’s (very busy) chats
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Zegnat HWC days are always busy :)
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jeremycherfas Re https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-12/1499892715873000 — I’m not absolutely sure this is true. :)
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Loqi [KartikPrabhu] "do this becaause it is cool" is not a reason for a lot of time/effort investment for anyone
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cweiske I implemented my search engine because I thought it was cool to have my own search engine
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jeremycherfas There you go!
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Zegnat Most of the crazy information and microformats on my site are only there because I find it cool
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cweiske I do things on my personal page because I find them interesting to do
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jeremycherfas Also, lifelong learning is supposedly a good thing.
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cweiske e.g. I don't have comments on my page yet because the ratio between usefulness/niceness vs. implementation effort is not high enough for me currently
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@ITLNLive Catalogue Form for The #India @WarehousingShow 2017 #IWS2017, #IMHLS2017 https://twitter.com/ITLNLive/status/885396093109809152/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/885396093109809152)
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Zegnat cweiske: yeah, that’s why you don’t publicly see any of the webmentions I have received. I receive them, I check them manually to see what people say, but I see no reason to include them on my posts
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cweiske Zegnat, same here
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cweiske and "shpub" was only the fallout of a personal project. would I only have done what I needed for my instagram-to-known project, shpub would only have 5% of its features
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cweiske but I thought it'd be cool to have a command line client with proper indieauth integration, so I made it
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cweiske e.g. the http server inside of shpub was something I would never have done except for the fun of it
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cweiske but that coolness is not a long-term motivator
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cweiske I doubt I'd spend a year to do something cool
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cweiske except it's ... cool above all else
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Zegnat Also: just read your blog post jeremycherfas! I agree that just talking about things helps you to understand things :)
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jeremycherfas Especially if you have a sympathetic listener.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat++ for being a sympathetic listener.
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Loqi zegnat has 70 karma in this channel (115 overall)
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Zegnat link to post for context https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/the-value-of-explaining-yourself
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] The value of explaining yourself
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Zegnat goes to add it to the wiki for the event
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Zegnat jeremycherfas was this the sort of thing you were considering trying to turn into a podcast?
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jeremycherfas It could certainly be a topic for discussion. But I’m not sure audio is the best medium, except for capturing people’s attention. A written walk through, or a written debriefing would be more useful in the long termm
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Zegnat I agree. But I do wonder if just informal talks with a questioner vs a questionee on singular topics would be helpful.
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Zegnat A podcast for “lets do an RSVP” is not really useful, there a walk through/debriefing would be much more to the point
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jeremycherfas I definitely think a simple Q&A on a single topic would be useful, and could then be transcribed anyway.
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Zegnat Just wondering out loud, because I know there was some talk of an indieweb podcast :) Podcasts aren’t my goto medium normally
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jeremycherfas What’s the tool that shows you the mf2 markup for a page?
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jeremycherfas OK, got it. Pin13.net
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Zegnat you can go to microformats.io, they have links to mf2 parsers in several different languages for testing purposes. php.microformats.io is the PHP (reference) parser, but they also link to other parsers like go.microformats.io
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cweiske are there other php-mf parsers now, or do we still have only one?
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Zegnat I think there is still only the php-mf one?
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Zegnat I don’t follow the parser scene very closely
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sl007 Journalists want Reactions, so about https://indieweb.org/rel-values What about `in-reply-to` ? The underlying question is : What is the best pattern for unified comments ?
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Zegnat Do you just mean http://indieweb.org/reply sl007?
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Zegnat Oh. And Bridgy for getting Twitter reactions and stuff onto your own site should be interesting for journalists!
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sl007 Should we use `class="u-in-reply-to"` or rel - answered meanwhile
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Zegnat `class="u-in-reply-to"` is what is being implemented
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Zegnat Also because a rel is specifically scoped to the entire page. So you can only use rel if your reply is on its own page, not when it is displayed within a feed
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sl007 Zegnat See https://indieweb.org/comments … Is that outdated ?
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sl007 I mean is a http://indieweb.org/reply different, why are there 2 pages ?
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sl007 > `class="u-in-reply-to"` - got that!
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@sl007 @dylans Great ! Btw: If you or anybody there is in germany in September, come to our tent https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund ?… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885408477946023936 (twitter.com/_/status/885408477946023936)
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Zegnat The difference between those two pages is where they are displayed, sl007. reply is on my site replying to your site. comment is you displaying my reply on your site.
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sl007 Zegnat Is there a pattern for micropub? Let's think of the real NYT: Let's say they present me a comment button which is like quill I could publish the reply to my site and then I would need an "autotrigger" for sending the webmention back to NYT ...
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cweiske your website does this normally
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Zegnat publish it. When your website has published it, and the comment has gotten a publicly accessible URL, that’s when your website can start sending webmentions to all the links that were in the post.
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Zegnat NYT could present an indie-config button that would open your preferred Micropub client (maybe Quill) with some reply things filled in already. You write the contents of your comment and hit “Post”. The Micropub client sends the microformats of this new post to your endpoint, that endpoint is probably part of your website. Now your website needs to
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Zegnat That’s the flow, I think. If I missed anything there do chime in :)
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sl007 That's perfect - it goes directly to the poster over in Illustrator ;)
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Zegnat Webmentions need a link for the post that is sending them. So those cannot be sent before the post is actually live at some URL. Only your website system knows the URL after publishing, nothing a Micropub client can do. That’s the technical reason outside of the flow.
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cweiske https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#response-p-1
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cweiske if a 201 is returned, the MP client knows the URL
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cweiske but the client is indeed the wrong one
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cweiske and should not send out webmentions
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Zegnat That section sounds weird, cweiske… does it say a URL is send back for 202 too?!
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cweiske no
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cweiske 202 is if the MP endpoint takes longer
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Zegnat “it MUST return an HTTP 202 Accepted status code, and MUST also return the Location header”
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cweiske oh
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cweiske wasn't aware of that
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Zegnat I don’t think I like that.
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Zegnat But I am not currently implementing Micropub so it doesn’t affect me
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sl007 but this is just for async handling …
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cweiske the spec says you have to return the final post URL in any case
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cweiske sync or async
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sl007 ah, I see
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Zegnat You queue the post creation in the back, but even before you get to it in the queue your system needs to already know what the final URL will be.
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Zegnat Learn something every day
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sl007 Q: What happens if I change the content of the comment ?
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cweiske A: Cool URIs do not change
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Zegnat A: You resend the Webmention (sometimes called an “update webmention”) so the website you are replying to knows and can possibly refetch the content if they are displaying it themselves.
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Zegnat sl007 covered here: https://indieweb.org/updated#Handling
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Zegnat (Took me a minute to find)
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Zegnat Q&A with Zegnat in session ;)
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sl007 1) I meant "content", not URL … 2) I thought more about "is it possible to bomb a NYT comment". But that is fair because it is the same process than accepting the initial comment … Thankyou, everybody.
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Zegnat Yes, exactly. If you already put comments you bring in through webmention through a spam filter or in an approval queue, you can do the same for updates to comments
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sl007 cool.
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Zegnat sebsel has most of the comment stuff (and RSVP, and reacji, and…) working on his site, he might be able to demo it in Dortmund
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sl007 !tell sebsel - how about a coffee in Nijmegen ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sl007 When I put URLs on posters do you consider QR codes useful? Is there any better?
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cweiske we make videos for our kindergarten, and they are only accessible via a URL and password. those data are printed on a sheet of paper and posted to the kindergarten's pinboard
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cweiske in addition to the URL and password, I add a QR code for the URL
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petermolnar sl007 I do
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cweiske which makes it easy for people to get to it with their mobile phones
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cweiske I don't know any better
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sl007 ok.
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petermolnar but QR has a much higher penetration in China for example, due to wechat
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cweiske at home I've got a poster in the guest bedroom with a qr code of the wifi configuration
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cweiske so people can auto-configure their mobile phones
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sl007 thankyou. I'll do some posters for https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund ? CAMPFIRE - Festival for journalism and let you all know for revision and redacting …
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Zegnat QR is definitely the best way for communicating with mobile. But posting shortlinks next to them is definitely helpful.
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cweiske yes. I would not do qr-only on posters
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Zegnat Do we have a short domain for IndieWeb?
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cweiske I consider indieweb.org short enough :)
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petermolnar it's really helpful for wifi for certain
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petermolnar and they can store a lot of different info
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petermolnar https://www.qrstuff.com/ - see data type on the left
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Zegnat I wonder if it's worth it to make short redirects. /wm for webmentions, etc
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Zegnat For building blocks, not all pages
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sl007 yes, that makes sense, btw: also a better readable table of contents naming them (on the left) would be helpful
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Zegnat Table of contents? Where?
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Zegnat You mean like https://indieweb.org/Category:building-blocks ?
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sl007 Zegnat In the "Resources" in the left column … https://gist.github.com/sebilasse/5a006894f92dc9916d0322f9a2fb3856 ?
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Zegnat I wouldn’t make them link to external pages. Especially not indieauth.com, as that is an implementation and not the spec itself
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sl007 Zegnat - well those are all the links appearing on the posters (?) Or is there a wiki entry page to ia or mf ?
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Zegnat Also, little known fact, microformats already has a shortdomain: ufs.cc
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Zegnat Yes, the indieauth protocol is described on http://indieweb.org/indieauth
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Zegnat The website has its own page on the wiki: https://indieweb.org/indieauth.com
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@ITLNLive Register now for @WarehousingShow 2017, 27-29 July 2017 at New Delhi #IWS2017 #indiawarehousingshow #IMHLS… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885435637498654721 (twitter.com/_/status/885435637498654721)
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Zegnat Blame aaronpk for that, sl007 ;) https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/138
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Loqi [aaronpk] #138 Rename the project
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Zegnat If you want short URLs for specific mf2 specs, they follow this format: http://ufs.cc/w/h-card
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Loqi h-card
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Zegnat Both /wm and /mp now exist as redirects
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Zegnat The /wm already existed. /mf2 for Microformats also exists if you want to link to the IndieWeb page. Else use ufs.cc for microformats.org
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Zegnat Any other short links that might be important?
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Zegnat realises this conversation should go to the meta channel
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tommorris I'm planning to give a short lightning talk at EuroPython in Italy today
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Loqi tommorris: tantek left you a message on 2017-05-12 at 11:10pm UTC: what do you think of the merged HWC Where/venue and RSVPs e.g. here: https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club#Where ?
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Zegnat Talk on the IndieWeb, tommorris?
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tommorris yep
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sl007 Zegnat - Did Jesus had a meta channel ?
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Zegnat I wouldn’t know sl007, I have never read the bible.
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Zegnat tommorris nice! You might want to add it to /events retroactively. Will there be a recording?
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tommorris Might be. Slides will be up on my site fairly quickly too
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sebsel morning IndieWeb :)
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Loqi sebsel: sl007 left you a message 2 hours, 4 minutes ago: - how about a coffee in Nijmegen ?
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sebsel read back
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sebsel re QR: the new iOS should add a QR reader to the native camera app, they said on the recent keynote. Hope that will push adoption in the west a bit more.
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sebsel re me demoing Micropub and Webmention in Dortmund: sure!
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sebsel re coffee in Nijmegen: sl007 sure, I'll dm you my e-mail :)
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sebsel This one is in Dutch, but the screenshots show a notification above the camera when the camera sees a QR https://www.onemorething.nl/2017/06/ios-11-qr-codes-camera-app/
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Loqi Nieuw in iOS 11: QR-codes scannen met de Camera-app
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sebsel lol, and Duckduckgo makes a QR code if your search for a term starting with 'QR' https://seblog.nl/temp/media-endpoint/25812d-qr-duckduckgo.jpg
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GWG Good day
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@p_ch Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/885473178734219265)
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@manuelpueyo #indieweb @kevingmarks: test (twitter.com/_/status/885475283905675264)
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@jevdemon Some of us are already doing this. Check out the IndieWeb movement. https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/what-if-we-build-the-internet-we-always-wanted (twitter.com/_/status/885488507786887168)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Some of us are already doing this. Check out the IndieWeb movement. https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/what-if-we-build-the-internet-we-always-wanted" by John Evdemon on 2017-07-13 http://www.evdemon.org/2017/some-of-us-are-already-doing-this-check-out-the
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indie-visitor I notice xoxo ( http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo ) hasn't been updated for a few years. Are there recommended alternatives to it?
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Loqi XOXO 1.0: Extensible Open XHTML Outlines
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Zegnat I don’t think it has been replaced by anything, no
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Zegnat Mostly replaced by: use the right HTML elements for the right things, sprinkle with specific microformats for the usecase
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indie-visitor Right. I want to make a list of website URLs with some descriptions.
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indie-visitor dl+dt+dd then?
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indie-visitor or more like itemscope?
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Zegnat I like dl dt dd for that, yes
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Zegnat The DT can be a link to the website, the DD the description you want to give for it
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Zegnat Or of course use the XOXO HTML, it hasn’t been invalidated just by time
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indie-visitor how about OPML?
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Zegnat OPML is a fine data format, but if you want to publish on the web, I would recommend HTML
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Zegnat If you are creating something that software has to read: OPML is fine. If you are creating something that people read: HTML all the way.
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indie-visitor Both.
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indie-visitor so I think I'll have some HTML and create an OPML view from it.
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indie-visitor I'm "basically" making a feed aggregator.
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indie-visitor actually maybe even markdown would be better as a source list & then I discover all the descriptions/metadata/titles/feeds programmatically
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tommorris If you are building a feed aggregator, you'll probably want to implement OPML import/export as it's sort of the standard. but you might also want to just do something a bit more lightweight
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Zegnat The XOXO format is friendly for conversion into OPML, so that seems to fit your idea then.
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indie-visitor oh it's a singleton feed aggregator, for a single website. btw it's git.work
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tommorris I was involved with OPML for many years, and though it's not much use for anything else (and pretty much everybody using it for anything else seems to have stopped), it remains pretty widely implemented for import/export a bunch of feeds to an aggregator.
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@jevdemon @metapgmr Not always. IndieWeb movement is one of several efforts to promote a less centralized architecture. (twitter.com/_/status/885503958814306305)
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tommorris indie-visitor: I see application of ecological models to recruiters. :)
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indie-visitor it won't work for recruiters, intentionally.
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ScalaWilliam though recruiters could definitely be involved in helping source for work. Easy & measurable commission etc.
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Zegnat You could probably mark a page like git.work up as an h-feed. People can parse that themselves or pull it through something like granary to convert it to RSS feeds, Atom feeds, whatever else they might work with
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ScalaWilliam example feed would come from here: http://work.scalawilliam.com/ - there I'd add smart workflow logic and such. But not in git.work
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ScalaWilliam fyi https://github.com/ScalaWilliam/git-work/issues/28
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Loqi [ScalaWilliam] #28 Make Git Work dumb
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sl007 Zegnat - https://indieweb.org/ws is a page but not a redirect to https://indieweb.org/WebSub (?)
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Zegnat It is not a page, it shows a create button. I’ll give you a redirect, second...
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam, if you want to go IndieWeb, definitely make work.scalawilliam.com an h-feed and have git.work parse and display that.
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ScalaWilliam @Zegnat any way I can do that with github pages + Jekyll? That's what I'm using now, and trying to do minimal work possible ;)
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Zegnat Jekyll: Yes. GH Pages + Jekyll: probably not? I think GH Pages and Jekyll always depend on what is inside the repo, so you would need some way to push new data into the repo
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Zegnat And that is always going to rely on some external factor doing work
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ScalaWilliam source data is Markdown. That I think has some key-value pairs, I can /probably/ do some h-tags, but also would like to put them into a feed
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Zegnat The idea with h-feed is that, because you are already generating HTML, add the right classes and it will then be parsable as a feed.
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Zegnat There are also several services that will turn h-feed HTML into RSS or Atom feeds, so traditional feed readers can subscribe
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Zegnat That way you don’t have to mess with the feed formats yourself, only do HTML
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Zegnat https://aaronparecki.com/ is a good example. He enables people to subscribe to atom, but the atom feed itself is generated by granary at https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=atom&url=https://aaronparecki.com/
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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tommorris ws seems pretty overloaded: formerly WS-* web services, now WebSockets, potentially WebSub. would avoid it for avoidance of confusion
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ScalaWilliam and why would one use microformats over microdata?
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ScalaWilliam single source of truth sounds super sexy btw
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Zegnat Microformats - because you are asking in the IndieWeb channel for one ;)
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Zegnat Classes are easy, multiple parsers in different languages already available for microformats2, many implementations on websites, h-feed reader already exists
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Zegnat Not sure how many of those things you would apply to microdata
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ScalaWilliam aaha .... can use both at the same time?
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Zegnat Sure. It is HTML, mix and match
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aaronpk Microdata is already falling out of favor in google since they're recommending their JSON islands now
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Zegnat Yeah. I am not seeing a whole lot of microdata use. Which is too bad, after all the work put in to get it into HTML in the first place
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Zegnat Did the Microdata DOM API ever land anywhere? According to Wikipedia not even Google bothered to add it to Chrome?
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ScalaWilliam @aaronpk more info on their JSON islands?
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aaronpk This is why it's not a good idea to get behind formats that a single company is pushing
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aaronpk Some more background here https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/17/8/owning-my-reviews
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Why Microformats? Owning My Reviews
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Zegnat ScalaWilliam: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/articles - scroll down to “Structured data reference”. Sample mark-up lists JSON-LD before Microdata.
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ScalaWilliam oh the nastiness
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ScalaWilliam thanks for the advice :)
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tommorris so, microformats2 and microdata are mostly combinable.
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tommorris if you find you end up needing microdata, you can combine both on a page
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tommorris it's not an either/or, you can use both
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Zegnat Interesting tweet thread: https://twitter.com/eaton/status/885366260166524928
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@eaton @lukestevens Blogging software radically simplified the process of updating, maintaining, and redesigning a frequently-updated site… (twitter.com/_/status/885366260166524928)
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ScalaWilliam so okay, what I think I'll do is the following: give microformats2 support to ScalaWilliam Work; on git.work initially use a static list of sites to source data from; auto-generate an opml and atom feeds on git.work; auto-generate atom feeds on sw work.
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ScalaWilliam think I wouldn't mind paying for these items either if someone's interested :)
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aaronpk Once you have microformats you can get the Atom feed by using Granary
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aaronpk what is granary?
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Loqi granary is a library and REST API that frees you from social network snowflake API and exposes the sweet social data foodstuff inside as HTML and JSON with microformats2, ActivityStreams, JSON Feed, Atom, XML, and more https://indieweb.org/granary
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aaronpk ^^
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ScalaWilliam perfect.
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ScalaWilliam I'll describe the architecture tomorrow & come back later :) ciao
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@pi1ch An interesting #indieweb dilemma http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/11/the-facebook-algorithm-mom-problem (twitter.com/_/status/885528788888502273)
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sknebel more a silo dilemma than an indieweb one
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sknebel also, for some reason Twitter asks me if I want to translate that tweet *from* indonesian to english?
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aaronpk Language detection on short text is hard
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cweiske it works if you limit the number of languages drastically
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sl007 Who needs language detection ? Just came back.
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cweiske e.g. I auto-create the <html lang=".."> attribute from the title of my posts
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cweiske I had 2 errors on 438 blog posts I wrote
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cweiske but I limited the possible languages to english and german
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Zegnat language limits really helps most libraries
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cweiske .. and actually using calculated confidence values
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sl007 I built detection in in js for 853 languages ! Who wants to try ?
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cweiske instead of using the most probable one
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sl007 of course you can limit
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Zegnat what is language detection?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "language detection" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Zegnat hmm
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Zegnat what is language?
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Loqi language may refer to human (or natural) languages or computer (often programming) languages https://indieweb.org/language
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Zegnat language detection is [[language#Language_detection]]
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat If you have a library you can add it there, sl007 ^^^
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sl007 Zegnat - it is not tested (I did not write test yet), so I can't make it public due to my new principles. But I have just assembled a quick node.js example if anybody wants to play around and I could put it in a private repo. However this is a sample output for bosnian text : https://gist.github.com/sebilasse/8e090e8990cd2fe762e93a587ad9d9c4
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sl007 It'll work in the browser as well of course but probably not with all 853 languages loaded but up to 60 should be fine
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sl007 It returns bunch of metadata with the languages (human or machine languages), also cweiske what are you using
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@martijnvdven @adactio can I upload that photo to the #indieweb wiki (where it is CC0 by default)? Collecting photos on https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-12-homebrew-website-club#Photos (twitter.com/_/status/885544942592036866)
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schmarty hmm. i just added "add to calendar" functionality for indie events on my site, with ical downloads and google calendar links.
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schmarty not sure where to document that on the wiki.
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Zegnat Probably … uuhm … event display?
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Zegnat What is event?
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Loqi An event is a type of post that in addition to a post name (event title) has a start datetime (likely end datetime), and a location https://indieweb.org/event
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Zegnat We had an ics page?
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Zegnat What is ics?
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Loqi ICS (AKA iCal or iCalendar file / feed) is a format for calendar files (a form of feed file) used by many programs such as Apple Calendar and Google Calendar, and can be used to share and subscribe to calendars across different systems https://indieweb.org/ICS
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snarfed good timing, i filed https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/110 just yesterday
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Loqi [snarfed] #110 support mf2 h-event
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Zegnat event << [[ICS]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[ICS]]" to the "See Also" section of /event
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schmarty added to /ICS and /Google_Calendar
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schmarty also added to /event#Calendar_Reminders
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cweiske !tell sl007 I use the php text_languagedetect package from pear.php.net
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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schmarty woo! i've also added a "send a webmention to this page" form that appears on the permalink for each post on my site.
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Jeena That is very usefull
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Jeena What should the content of a like be? A lot of websites which have likes have just a empty content and woodwind just doesn't show anything.
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Jeena I guess the websites are right and woodwind should display it differently?
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schmarty that fixes up my "improved events" itches from the /2017/events session at IWS
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gRegorLove Woodwind doesn't do special handling of likes afaik, just whatever is in the h-entry e-content
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schmarty though i think my mentions section needs a lot of styling work >_<
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schmarty gRegorLove: woodwind special-cases in-reply-to
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Jeena yeah, but I think it should, I'm not sure if it has the info though, I'm looking into the db
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Jeena there is a properties column which is json, wonder what gets saved there
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schmarty Jeena: it could be really fun if woodwind handled like-of, bookmark-of, repost-of, and maybe more (listen-of)
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gRegorLove Hm, I don't usually u-in-reply-to my likes.
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schmarty i u-like-of my likes
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Jeena I don't either
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schmarty rather than u-in-reply-to
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Jeena yeah
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gRegorLove Ok, I'm not (that) odd then
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gRegorLove A "like-context" under a like in woodwind could be nice, yeah
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gRegorLove Sort of like schmarty's display: https://martymcgui.re/2017/07/12/102235/
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] ★ Favorited https://whatisawridingmybikearoundtoday.com/2017/07/12/canton-neighbors-for-a-better-potomac-street-bike-lane-sign-near-potomac-hudson/
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Jeena cool property is something like this: {"like-of": ["http://herestomwiththeweather.com/2017/06/19/sending-webmentions-from-travis-ci-using-jekyll-indieweb-on-netlify/"]}
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Loqi [Tom] Sending webmentions from Travis CI using Jekyll-Indieweb on Netlify
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schmarty i love /link-preview
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Jeena this way it should be just a matter of changing the template
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gRegorLove Nice
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schmarty that is exciting
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Jeena done! https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind/pull/70
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Loqi [jeena] #70 Show likes
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cweiske oooooooooooh gitea supports openid now
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sketchess !tell sebsel add me, thank you very much :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Jeena does someone have a link to some bookmark-of, repost-of, and maybe more (listen-of) posts? I need to test my code
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strk[m] cweiske: thanks ;)
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strk[m] cweiske: its actually possibly broken at the moment: https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/2100
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Loqi [strk] #2100 OpenID login fails on try.gitea.io
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cweiske see https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/2101
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Loqi [strk] #2101 OpenID login direct to 404 registration page
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cweiske I also have a problem :)
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strk[m] Want to help debugging and fixing it ?
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schmarty Jeena++ for extra post type handling in woodwind!
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Loqi jeena has 40 karma in this channel (50 overall)
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strk[m] You have problems on your own instance?
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cweiske no, I just tried try.gitea.io
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cweiske strk[m], you maintain gnash? kudos!
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strk it's really low activity, only try to help those who send patches, when I can
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strk official maintainer is someone else
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schmarty Jeena: here are some listen-of posts: http://boffosocko.com/2017/06/06/containers-episode-7-the-lost-docks/
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schmarty https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/06/29/10/listen/
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] ? Containers Episode 7: The Lost Docks http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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Loqi [Eddie Hinkle] ? Listened to Under the Radar 85: iOS 11
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schmarty a couple of reposts: https://martymcgui.re/2017/04/17/141906/
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] ? Reposted https://twitter.com/DnDSVU/status/853985730430996480
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schmarty https://aaronparecki.com/2017/07/11/20/
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schmarty bookmarks:
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schmarty https://aaronparecki.com/2017/07/12/12/
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schmarty https://martymcgui.re/2017/04/25/105934/
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] ? Bookmarked http://idlewords.com/talks/build_a_better_monster.htm
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] DocRaptor: How It Works https://aaronparecki.com/2017/07/12/12/photo.jpg
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gRegorLove Doesn't look good for SoundCloud https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/12/soundshroud/
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schmarty eek
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Jeena thanks schmarty
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sketchess sound clouds act does not surprise me *thought normal in germany
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[davidmead] @Jeena I have `bookmark-of` and `repost-of` links on http://davidjohnmead.com if that helps
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Loqi David Mead
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[davidmead] sorry @jeena. should be http://davidjohnmead.com/blog
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sknebel Freenode is running an event later this year: https://freenode.net/news/freenode-live
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sknebel (28-29.10., in bristol, UK)
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cweiske strk++
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Loqi strk has 2 karma in this channel (3 overall)
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Jeena schmarty, sadly woodwind doesn't seem to save the listened-to property for now
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Jeena thanks [davidmead] I will try it
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schmarty Jeena: i'm not surprised, i don't think it is "official", if there is such a thing, but is starting to become popular.
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strk cweiske++ for fixing gnash openid implementation :)
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Loqi cweiske has 89 karma in this channel (106 overall)
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Jeena it does save repost-of
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Jeena I updated my pull request https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind/pull/70
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Loqi [jeena] #70 Show likes, reposts, bookmarks and listens
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@treitnauer @actually_a_bear Not just for WordPress users but talking about @indiewebcamp features in general so slightly different focus. :) (twitter.com/_/status/885600721537703936)
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gRegorLove listened-to property, or listen-of?
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gRegorLove Or are they being used interchangeably?
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gRegorLove What is listen?
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Loqi A scrobble (AKA a listen) is a passive type of post used to publish a song (music or audio track, including concert recordings or DJ sets) or podcast that you have listened to https://indieweb.org/listen
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sl007 !tell aaronpk tantek - I would also quickly like to find money for indieweb and write 3 letters to german institutions (I am Alumni at a cultural foundation governed by public law and got a grant for the refugees project from our copyright collecting society and now a friend joined Mercator foundation - apart from "history" summary, may I name you as those "experts having a designate expertise" (what would be needed to fill in at the
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi sl007: cweiske left you a message 2 hours, 19 minutes ago: I use the php text_languagedetect package from pear.php.net
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tantek sl007: looks like your text got cut off
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sl007 tantek "last one ?" - basically
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sl007 it is this foundation https://www.stiftung-mercator.de/en/our-foundation/grants/information-for-applicants/grant-requirements/ - friend won't decide of course but could write the letter ;)
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Zegnat Under which of their “themes” would you put indieweb in that application?
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gRegorLove site-death -> near miss -> actual site-death: https://indieweb.org/Fetchnotes
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@actually_a_bear @treitnauer @indiewebcamp Hey no problem! Thanks for taking an interest. @mariaskatova is the organiser. I'm so bus… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885612114403926016 (twitter.com/_/status/885612114403926016)
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@dylanon Trying to figure out how to implement Micropub on my site. My knowledge gaps are glaring. This is difficult. https://indieweb.org/Micropub (twitter.com/_/status/885612261980745728)
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@gRegorLove @dylanon If you have any questions, we have a chat with helpful people: https://indieweb.org/discuss (the dev channel) (twitter.com/_/status/885612951289384960)
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sl007 Zegnat I would discuss this with the friend but basically "Cultural Education" or an IWC for refugees with "Integration"
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Zegnat Open Web, definitely. IndieWeb in its current state? Not sure. But interesting.
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@treitnauer @actually_a_bear @indiewebcamp @mariaskatova Cool, thanks! (twitter.com/_/status/885616487087525888)
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sl007 Zegnat - why not sure ?
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@iwantmyname ? We're now a proud supporter of #IndieWeb. You should support them too! https://opencollective.com/indieweb #opencollective (twitter.com/_/status/885618332686209024)
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Zegnat Just generally unsure what we’re doing to help integration, or how we can focus on that target group when just targeting gen2 is a challenge.
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Zegnat But if you put a proposal together I would love to read it
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sl007 Zegnat - The challenge has just begun. Let's face it. I am sure it is much about the UI to make adoption easier. It takes so much time: Have you seen the output from my Language Detection ? It is fine but the visual design takes much additional time …
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sl007 will send proposal
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Zegnat If you don’t want to put any text public, you can find ways to reach me - as per usual - on my site
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Zegnat I am heading out for the night though :) Talk to you later!
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sl007 Sleep well.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@super8trash #indieweb #reply_reply #test" by Tom Cesar Wolf on 2017-04-05 http://stream.tomwolf.be/2017/super8trash-indieweb-reply_reply-test
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Loqi [superfeedr] "#indieweb #test #ignore" by Tom Cesar Wolf on 2017-04-05 http://stream.tomwolf.be/2017/indieweb-test-ignore
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Scuttlebutt: an off-grid social network. https://staltz.com/an-off-grid-social-network.html via http://llllllll.co (favoriete plek op het www) #indieweb" by Tom Cesar Wolf on 2017-04-07 http://stream.tomwolf.be/2017/scuttlebutt-an-off-grid-social-network-an-off-grid-social-networkhtmlvia-favoriete-plek-op-het
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Loqi [superfeedr] "#test #comment #indieweb" by Tom Cesar Wolf on 2017-04-05 http://stream.tomwolf.be/2017/test-comment-indieweb
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