#indieweb 2017-07-12

2017-07-12 UTC
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gRegorLove o/ [miklb]
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amitp o/
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[chrisaldrich] thanks tantek
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I shared that with my mother. She's upset.
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@jgarber IndieWebCamp 2013 rekindled my love for my personal website. Help the @indiewebcamp movement do the same for others: https://opencollective.com/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/884942096511238144)
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TheGillies I had a spammer link to my site for some reason once. Got lots of traffic. Not sure why they linked it though
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@kongaloosh Home brew website club! #indieweb #yeg #homebrewwebsiteclub #tech #web (http://kongaloosh.com/e/2017/7/11/home-brew-website-club-indieweb-yeg-homebrewwebsiteclub-tech-web) https://twitter.com/kongaloosh/status/884956889888542720/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/884956889888542720)
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tantek lots of activity past few days!
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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[chrisaldrich] !tell petermolnar Are you still on /WordPress for your primary site? Could you update /WordPress/Examples as appropriate?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@nhoizey ? I'm now a proud supporter of IndieWeb. You should support them too! https://opencollective.com/indieweb #opencollective (twitter.com/_/status/885043416966549508)
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@martijnvdven Two different time zones get an online Homebrew Website Club today! Join us there if there is none nearby you! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-12-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/885049568911667200)
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petermolnar !tell [chrisaldrich] no, I'm not on WP with my site any more, and though I'm still managing a few, those are mostly portfolios, and not indiewebified yet
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi petermolnar: [chrisaldrich] left you a message 1 hour, 13 minutes ago: Are you still on /WordPress for your primary site? Could you update /WordPress/Examples as appropriate?
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@ScalaWilliam @jeroenrosenberg fyi http://indieweb.org/posse :-) (twitter.com/_/status/885067511049445377)
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@malcolmblaney Added Quill as a web action fallback #indieweb: https://unicyclic.com/mal/2017-07-12-Added_Quill_as_a_web_action_fallback_indieweb https://twitter.com/malcolmblaney/status/885075462569025537/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/885075462569025537)
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jeremycherfas Good morning Indieweb
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The continuing saga of marking up status updates in @WithKnown" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-09 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/the-continuing-saga-of-marking-up-status-updates-in-withknown
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Replied to:The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem" by Srikanth Perinkulam on 2017-07-12 https://srikanthperinkulam.com/2017/07/12/facebook-mom/
tantek, friedcell, jeremycherfas_, kapowaz_, Unifex, sl007, [pfefferle], marinin, calumryan and calumryan_ joined the channel
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Would-be Arringtons" on 2017-07-12 http://scripting.com/2017/07/12.html#a091435
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@sl007 @C_Q_ @AlexDroessler Ja. https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund beim ? CAMPFIRE Festival für Journalismus mit https://twitter.com/sl007/status/885131442128384000/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/885131442128384000)
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@sl007 @PNJ_aktuell https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund beim ? CAMPFIRE Festival für Journalismus (twitter.com/_/status/885131651264765953)
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jeremycherfas Anyone played with pngwriter yet? http://pngwriter.com I’m intrigued by the idea, and wondering about how I can get it to appear on my site. (copied here from chat.
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eli_oat ?
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jeremycherfas Miklb: It doesn’t support Safari (yet?) but users have reported finding texts created on IOS waiting from them when using it on Chrome.
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aaronpk i guess it's an interesting technique for POSSEing articles to twitter
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jeremycherfas My question is, how to get it to POSSE automatically.
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aaronpk it seems like it's not really necessary to publish an image of text on your site, since you can just publish text
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jeremycherfas Manual till it hurts?
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aaronpk this would be something that silo.pub or bridgy publish could build in, so that if you tried to POSSE an article to twitter it would generate an image
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jeremycherfas Right aaronpk. So a simple copy and paste to pngwriter would be suffficient.
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aaronpk but in the mean time... manual til it hurts :)
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Zegnat This is best suited for either middle-length posts (though I would not ever bother reading those) or texts you want to be picked up for sharing on Facebook/Tumblr/etc (where text images are a norm)
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jeremycherfas Agreed Zegnat. Making use of the reach of silos essentially for marketing.
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Zegnat I do wonder why it doesn’t work on Safari. Is it using JS & canvas for everything maybe?
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jeremycherfas No idea, although Dave Winer does offer reasons
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Zegnat … the FAQ is js;dr http://this.how/pngWriter/
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Zegnat ’s face meets his palm
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jeremycherfas pretends not to understand.
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Zegnat I think POSSE’ing through the pngwriter.com service might not work very well, jeremycherfas. So definitely manual ’til it hurts unless you build your own.
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jeremycherfas Why do you think that, zegnat?
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petermolnar jeremycherfas that shouldn't be hard to replicate
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petermolnar in any langugate
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petermolnar language
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Zegnat Because if it is using JS & canvas for all of this, you can’t make your server talk to it unless you emulate a browser
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jeremycherfas But — manual till it hurts FTW. It isn’t as if I am going to use it often.
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aaronpk unrelated, I really like the design of this blog and how the code snippets appear! https://mxb.at/blog/how-to-turn-your-website-into-a-pwa/
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Zegnat aaronpk, you mean how the background stretches out to the whole site and is not contained by the centre column?
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aaronpk yeah
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Zegnat I feel like someone else used to do that years and years ago (and maybe still) … Jonathan Snook maybe? Or PPK?
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Zegnat goes looking
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Zegnat That pngwriter preview is definitely some canvas stuff. Different font used between my default browser setup and my current testing in a sandbox. I am probably blocking JS from accessing my fonts, to stop browser fingerprinting.
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@EatPodcast @shosh_yossef Whatever platform you choose, you might also want to consider being more #indieweb http://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/885152697896366081)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@shosh_yossef Whatever platform you choose, you might also want to consider being more #indieweb http://indieweb.org" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-12 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/shosh_yossef-whatever-platform-you-choose-you-might-also-want-to
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[miklb] agreed aaronpk.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: what’s the plugin required for jit.si?
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jeremycherfas I didn’t know that would be involved, so delayed.
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Zegnat There shouldn’t be a plugin?
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Zegnat I am pretty sure petermolnar and I were able to jump in instantly with just browsers
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Zegnat When we tested 2 weeks ago that is
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jeremycherfas Safari wanted a browser. Chrome does not. So I am in.
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Zegnat I’ll be there ASAP jeremycherfas, just brewing tea
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jeremycherfas Maybe I’ll go do the same.
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petermolnar appear.in was fine, wasn't it?
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Zegnat Was also fine, yes. I don’t know who brought up jitsi and why I decided to test that one now first
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Zegnat This does show bitrate and everything. Seems really nice for saving my bandwidth
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petermolnar because jit.si used to have dedicated clients which were not relying on webtrc, hence not toasing cpu a while ago
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petermolnar but I fear that's gone
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petermolnar so, then, jitsi.org or appear.in?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Virtual HWC Europe" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-12 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/virtual-hwc-europe
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@davewiner If you want to write reviews of #indieweb products, please have a look at this post. http://scripting.com/2017/07/12.html#a091435 (twitter.com/_/status/885161184856604672)
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Zegnat petermolnar jitsi is working fine for us. You were in too?
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[chrisaldrich] good morning
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Loqi *yawn*
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@JudahGabriel POSSE = Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. Write on the open web, link to it on social media silos. https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/885167319210766336)
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[miklb] https://tinysubversions.com/spooler/
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[miklb] “A tool that turns Twitter threads into blog posts” kinda like noterlive I guess
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[chrisaldrich] Apparently The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/11/the-facebook-algorithm-mom-problem/ is sitting at #1 on Hacker News this morning and has wreaked some serious havoc with my servers!
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aaronpk oh dear
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[chrisaldrich] Thanks petermolnar (for the privilege and the pain)!
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[chrisaldrich] Hopefully it makes some reasonable coverage for Indieweb...
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[miklb] hands chrisaldrich a WP caching plugin
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[chrisaldrich] takes the plugin and stomps on it....
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[chrisaldrich] The sad part was that I had turned caching off a few days ago because of some random bugs it was causing.
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[chrisaldrich] It's back on now and hopefully the server won't have as many problems though I'll live with the bugs for a bit.
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jeremycherfas Kudos to chrisaldrich for that article. Luckily my Mom is not a problem
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[miklb] chrisaldrich which plugin are you using?
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[chrisaldrich] I think it's WP Super Cache
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petermolnar [chrisaldrich] sorry
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petermolnar I'd say try my wp-ffpc but I haven't been updating it for a long while
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petermolnar so don't know if it's still viable
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[miklb] endorses super-cache
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[chrisaldrich] I'm just hoping it doesn't become a meme that my mom sees before I un-embargo her from seeing the post on Facebook. ?
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[miklb] heh. I just viewed source on that site aaronpk and love the first html comment
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[miklb] might need to steal that idea.
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aaronpk ha nice, didn't notice that
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Zegnat For anyone who wants to talk anything IndieWeb, note that virtual Homebrew Website Club EU is live at https://meet.jit.si/hwc . I’ll be there for at least another hour
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Zegnat One thing jeremycherfas and I ended up testing this HWC: RSVP support in Known http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/virtual-hwc-europe
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Loqi Virtual HWC Europe
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Zegnat Known seems to take the RSVP value and display it as a comment
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snarfed idly wonders why http://tantek.com/2017/193/e1/homebrew-website-club doesn't show up on http://tantek.com/
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club SF
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tantek oh oops
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snarfed ah, looks like the post date is the same as the event date, so falcon will only render it after the event has started/passed ?
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tantek I wish I could say that was on purpose
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snarfed heh
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tantek because my *intent* is to only show the event in my stream / home page when it has started
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tantek but right now that's an accident
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snarfed is that really your intent?! you don't want to advertize upcoming events to your readers?
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snarfed maybe i misunderstand
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tantek not in my stream no, but yes in my event box
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tantek and perhaps separately in announcement posts
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tantek but then when the event starts, I want it to automatically roll onto the top of my stream
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snarfed ah, announcement vs event posts, interesting, ok
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tantek yeah
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tantek snarfed, reload
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Zegnat Someone joined me on the virtual HWC, but they are silent so no clue who it is :D
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tantek not it
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tantek I did just add a one day banner also for Battle for the Net
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Zegnat Yours works without images, so props to that!
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Zegnat 10 minutes left on Virtual HWC EU, then I am stepping out as conversation has been low tonight
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sknebel Zegnat: sorry, Wifi here again was shitty, so I didn't even try
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tantek oh oops
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Zegnat No worries sknebel
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tantek is joining
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Zegnat It is aimed at those who do not have a physical one, you have a real one ;)
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tantek wants to be supportive
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tantek puts on his REBEL cap for the virtual HWC photo :)
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tantek anyone else wants to join for the Virtual HWC photo?
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petermolnar right, so V-HWC is jumping over to https://appear.in/hwc
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petermolnar jitsi.org is not as nice as appear.in
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tantek last call for HWC Virtual EU ^^^ for photo!
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tantek talking about https://twitter.com/justin/status/883171036283285508
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@justin Someone socially engineered AT&T to get a new SIM for my phone, signed into my Paypal (using 2FA) and withdrew a bunch of money. I am livid (twitter.com/_/status/883171036283285508)
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aaronpk yikes
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sketchess good morning indieweb
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sketchess O.O
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sketchess is that normal that the wiki tries to get email and adress
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sketchess I will make a screen shot.
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Zegnat It’s the Battle for the Web modal
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petermolnar I think it's safe to conclude we'll be using appear.in
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tantek what is appear.in
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "appear.in" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is jitsi.org
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jitsi.org" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek ^^^ petermolnar worth documenting the experience you had so we remember
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sketchess so someone out of the community did it?
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Zegnat Previous stuff was being recorded on https://indieweb.org/Virtual_HWC#Platforms tantek. But it will be worth breaking out to their own pages
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Zegnat sketchess, yes, the Battle for the Web widget was added to the site.
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sketchess oh good, otherwise it could be a hacking
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sketchess I never touch what seems coming out of nowhere.
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sketchess next time don't scare the people xD
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sketchess hahahahahaha
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Loqi rofl
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petermolnar sketchess this has been on the news for a while that on 12 July join the protest: https://www.battleforthenet.com/
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sketchess aha
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aaronpk the goal *is* to scare people :)
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sketchess I just found the news sites few days ago :)..... so I am not up to date. Thihhihi.
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petermolnar it's like the internet blackout was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA
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Loqi Protests against SOPA and PIPA
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sketchess thanks for the link
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sketchess well you scared me..... but not into the right direction aaronpk hahahahaha
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Event" on 2017-07-11 http://tantek.com/2017/193/e1/homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [superfeedr] "added #battleforthenet banner to my #indieweb site. Support #netneutrality, simple HTML+CSS: (somewhere right after your start tag should work.) Traffic throttling? Site blocking? New fees? No thanks.Save net neutrality. Running this live on my site for the rest of today 2017-193. Previously: tantek.com/2016/313/t3/new-site-feature-one-day-banner-electionday" on 2017-07-12 http://tantek.com/2017/193/t1/battleforthenet-indieweb-support-netneutrality
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tantek wat
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tantek hahah my Atom feed just has "Event" because I couldn't be bothered to figure out the Atom/AS1 equivalent for an "event" post
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tantek sidefiles--
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Loqi sidefiles has -2 karma
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tantek classic sidefiletax
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tantek note I didn't PuSH yet
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tantek that must be Superfeedr polling.
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sketchess is the online hwc still running?
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Zegnat I closed it so I could have some dinner. If you want to discuss stuff I would be happy to spin it up again
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tantek nope. several last calls above ^^^
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KevinMarks good turnout in London
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@t added #battleforthenet banner to my #indieweb site. Support #netneutrality, add simple HTML+CSS to your site: http://tantek.com/2017/193/t1 (twitter.com/_/status/885200825412354049)
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sketchess ah it is yours.....
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KevinMarks tantek's URL show's that it's prime day
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sketchess I just try out the service.^^
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snarfed idly examines https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=atom&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F
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tantek clicks
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sketchess the first 2 times I got an error, Zegnat
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snarfed event title is right at least
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tantek goes to #indieweb-dev
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @calum_ryan: This is the 1st anniversary of Homebrew Website Club London (twitter.com/_/status/885201436878962689)
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sketchess enjoy your lunch that is important now :)
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Zegnat sketchess, errors getting into appear.in? Or meet.jit.si?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: Tantek came over a year ago and did a pop-up one and now we're regular (twitter.com/_/status/885201553128398849)
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sketchess I guess it was jitsi..... I am not sure what I clicked first. Well you know I have a picky browser. Thihihi.
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sketchess hahahaha, jitsi made an old man out of me
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tantek Whoa is kevinmarks livetweeting HWC London?
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KevinMarks mungs tantek's feed back http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=https%3A%2F%2Fgranary-demo.appspot.com%2Furl%3Finput%3Dhtml%26output%3Datom%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Ftantek.com%252F
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KevinMarks yes, I will be
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snarfed lol
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snarfed convert all the things
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4pKwobEB.jpg
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tantek hey everyone who posted a battleforthenet banner on their own site. post about it with #indieweb and POSSE to all the places
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @loopdouble: I've been getting the rel-me links working for https://web.manuelpueyo.tech/ (twitter.com/_/status/885202766272106497)
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tantek seems like folks are using #battleforthenet and #netneutrality
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tantek (as hashtags)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @loopdouble: I'm going to be posting to my website will quill and then sending it out to twitter as well (twitter.com/_/status/885202867849756674)
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Zegnat the #netneutrality hashtag gets the little spinner icon on Twitter
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @loopdouble: It shows up as twitter via bridgy publish, but doesn't end up on twitter yet (twitter.com/_/status/885203080891031552)
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Zegnat Do we have a name for those?
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@IndieWebCampDE Ein #IndieWebCamp zu Gast auf dem ? CAMPFIRE Festival? Auf jeden Fall! Vom 8.-9. September 2017, in Dortmund https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund (twitter.com/_/status/885203246234644485)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @manuelpueyo: my site is https://web.manuelpueyo.tech/ which is a wordpress site and I added the indieweb plugins (twitter.com/_/status/885203251355844608)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @manuelpueyo: I'm trying to add the different identities on twitter and last.fm so I can log into indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/885203424568061954)
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tantek kevinmarks++
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Loqi kevinmarks has 212 karma in this channel (281 overall)
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tantek calumryan++
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Loqi calumryan has 10 karma
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tantek calumryan: remember to take a photo!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @loopdouble: I have twitter coming up twice on my site as I have 2 rel=me's on it (twitter.com/_/status/885203612196057088)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: rel=me is not just for indieauth, it is also for showing that you own both sites (twitter.com/_/status/885204052681924608)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I have a distributed verification browser plugin that check's rel-me (twitter.com/_/status/885204173989572609)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: it's linked from this post http://www.kevinmarks.com/distributed-verify.html (twitter.com/_/status/885204252515340288)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: because this works on twitter, you can see which sites people actually own, without begging twitter to verify (twitter.com/_/status/885204965085589505)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: I've been playing around with progressive web apps - I got my site https://barryfrost.com/ to pass the PWA checks (twitter.com/_/status/885205086280011777)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: it has a service worker and https and a manifest (twitter.com/_/status/885205168882675712)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @calum_ryan: if you go there several times it works out that you're a regular and offers to install the app (twitter.com/_/status/885205498945036288)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: I set up a thing with cloudflare to add a banner to my site advertising HWC London (twitter.com/_/status/885205627206807557)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: they have a net neutrality banner for your site if you have cloudflare caching (twitter.com/_/status/885205738364293120)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: so today @cloudflare does the opposite of usual and makes your website really slow for net neutrality? (twitter.com/_/status/885205872204447745)
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sketchess is the battle with congress only happening in the US?
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tantek for now. however it affects every website around the world that anyone in the US may attempt to browse
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[barryf] PWA quickstart: https://mxb.at/blog/how-to-turn-your-website-into-a-pwa/
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @calum_ryan: Jeremy Keith, @adactio, pioneered using progressive web apps for indie sites (twitter.com/_/status/885206078027386880)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: PWA quickstart: https://mxb.at/blog/how-to-turn-your-website-into-a-pwa/ (twitter.com/_/status/885206130607222784)
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KartikPrabhu what is PWA?
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Loqi Progressive Web App (PWA) is a web site that a client can progressively enhance into a standalone app that's comparable with a native app https://indieweb.org/PWA
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @calum_ryan: I've been tidying up my website to have better microformats so webmentiosn works (twitter.com/_/status/885206238665089024)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @calum_ryan: we also got the @hwclondon site and https://hwclondon.co.uk/ to advertise so more people show up here (twitter.com/_/status/885206399424356352)
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KartikPrabhu @barryf maybe add that to articles section in /PWA?
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sketchess they tried it in germany once.... 2013 if I remember right..... hmmm
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @calum_ryan: No HWC London in 2 weeks as Meet The Tag event clashes with it - @timberners_lee is coming https://ti.to/w3c-tag/meet-the-tag-london-july-2017 (twitter.com/_/status/885206956465639424)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: uh oh @hotzeplotz is doing the lighthouse scanner on my site - not too bad 73% (twitter.com/_/status/885207170186440704)
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KevinMarks are you coming tantek?
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[barryf] KartikPrabhu: Done
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KartikPrabhu [barryf]++
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Loqi barryf has 8 karma in this channel (11 overall)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: as well as http://www.kevinmarks.com/ I have my http://known.kevinmarks.com for shorter notes and also for ownyourgram (twitter.com/_/status/885207798291759104)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: ownyourswarm doesn't work on my hosted known site as the json version of micropub didn't work (twitter.com/_/status/885207963593568257)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: I had to change my site a fair bit to get ownyourswarm working wiht the nested location in json (twitter.com/_/status/885208079188578305)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: so my checkins show up like this https://barryfrost.com/2017/07/12-181445 (twitter.com/_/status/885208209492979713)
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tantek KevinMarks not til the AB meeting in London Oct 16-17
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: I turned off the ownyourswarm webmentions from swarm, and it got a bit much as my phone was buzzing (twitter.com/_/status/885208395619463168)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: trying http://ownyourswarm.com again and it isn't working with my hosted known, getting 403. Scope mismatch? (twitter.com/_/status/885209372170874880)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: My site is https://mey.dn - it's a static site - I moved my blog from wordpress to google and made them private (twitter.com/_/status/885209665998663684)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: I use gatsby.js for my site - it uses React and is very fast and offline-first (twitter.com/_/status/885209839391186944)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: Also it is graphQL which makes it easy to reshape data using a unified data language helps (twitter.com/_/status/885209976624513025)
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[miklb] didn’t realize kevinmarks was tweeting HWC London at first. ?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: It does serve static html but also enriches it with React so you have a dynamic static site (twitter.com/_/status/885210504091885569)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: on netify you can install other auth plugins (twitter.com/_/status/885210635180670976)
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sebboh Hi all!
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sketchess welcome sebboh
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: I've also been using the static site generator lektor which has a nice web interface to the git repository (twitter.com/_/status/885210779557007360)
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sebboh Thanks sketchess
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @hotzeplotz: there are a few static site CMS tools now that work with these (twitter.com/_/status/885211004849848320)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: siteleaf is a nice static site generator that can deploy to github pages (twitter.com/_/status/885211136223825922)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: @voxpelli did a micropub to github pages adaptor https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github (twitter.com/_/status/885211316046233600)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I serve my website from heroku even though it is static - I should really fix that. Maybe I'll go to Hugo (twitter.com/_/status/885211848018194433)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @loopdouble: I use the post kinds plugin in wordpress that formats the different post kinds differently which is uselful (twitter.com/_/status/885211999730368517)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I made http://www.lifewithalacrity.com/ for Chris with Hugo and an indieweb friendly template (twitter.com/_/status/885212189845573633)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @loopdouble: I use pocket for bookmarks - I'd like to be able to bookmark things on my site and then go to pocket (twitter.com/_/status/885212342799282178)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: I use @pinboard for bookmarks from my site as they have a simple api (twitter.com/_/status/885212434079907847)
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sebboh What does it mean for something to be "indieweb friendly"? I'm here just because some blogger mentioned IndieWeb and I happen to always have an IRC client open, so here I am.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I have my twitter links feed to @pinboard, so maciej has them safe fro me to pull back to my site eventually (twitter.com/_/status/885212635259707393)
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Zegnat sebboh, might be a bit hard to telk while the London event is being live tweeted. But I would be happy to answer questions you have :)
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KevinMarks hi sebboh - it means that your site can work with indieweb
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KevinMarks have a look at indiewebify.me for a walk-through
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sebboh Indieweb is a .. software, or protocol, or something, not just a movement?
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Zegnat What is really means is still debated. Mostly it seems to come down to 1) owning your own identity online (most often a personal domain) and 2) look into how you can make that identity talk with others without needing a centralised service (silo) like Facebook or Twitter
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "really means is still debated. Mostly it seems to come down to 1) owning your own identity online (most often a personal domain) and 2) look into how you can make that identity talk with others without needing a centralised service (silo) like Facebook or Twitter" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel it's a movement that has come up with some protocols. We do write software, but there is not "the indieweb project" piece of software
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Zegnat Mostly it is a movement, but there are some common protocols that are used so websites can parse/understand eachother and communicate behind the scenes.
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sebboh ok KevinMarks, I'll read that. And thanks Loqi and Zegnat
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sebboh and sknebel :)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @MartincHeath: I now have a website at https://martinheathsjournal.blog/ becasue we need another wordpress site (twitter.com/_/status/885213536955379712)
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tantek what is the indieweb?
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Loqi The IndieWeb is about owning your domain, using it as your primary identity to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and owning your data https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: I see @manton got https://micro.blog/ from wordpress early - it supports micropub (twitter.com/_/status/885213662163677184)
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tantek sebboh ^^^
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KevinMarks how do we get wordpress.com sites indieweb friendly
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KartikPrabhu GWG ^
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sebboh gah, I thanked the bot.. In my defense, it straight up speaks.. :)
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[miklb] convince WP core to implement mf2 instead of sticking with mf1 for legacy styling purposes
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Zegnat sebboh, yeah, be careful of Loqi ;)
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[miklb] who is Loqi
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/User:Loqi.me
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tantek sebboh sometimes he'll reply
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tantek especially if you give him something
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sebboh Yep.
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KevinMarks I know that part; you can add rel-me, and maybe silo.pub and brid.gy
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sebboh !botsnack
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tantek gives Loqi a snack
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Loqi peers at the snack
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[miklb] didn’t someone write a blog post recently about using an existing WP.com feature to PESOS?
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snarfed KevinMarks: yup, mostly straightforward. https://indieweb.org/WordPress.com . tldr: sign up for bridgy, gives them inbound and outbound webmentions. limited, but still, much easier and consistent than self-hosted WP
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @barryf: taking a photo (twitter.com/_/status/885214427259318273)
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snarfed https://indieweb.org/web_hosting#Hosted_CMS_Software_as_Service
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @MartincHeath: I've just written a blog post about music rights at https://martinheathsjournal.blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/885214519945027584)
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sketchess sebboh it takes a while to get an idea of what and how indieweb is. Hmmmm, how long am I here now *think*.... perhaps a month or so.... still discovering :D
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sketchess I somehow got here. hahahaha
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Loqi ahahahaha
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tantek it helps if you have or want your own domain and to use it to publish content!
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KevinMarks I'll see if I can get Martin on that later
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sebboh so I see that owning your own domain is considered a first step. Personally, I would say that owning your own *namespace* is what is important. So example.com/~yourname would be sufficent. Some may argue that you don't "own" your public_html directory, but by that metric, it may be that you don't "own" your domain, either: your registrar does. A trusted sysadmin is just like a trusted registrar--they won't mess around in users'
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sebboh namespaces unless something is seriously wrong that can affect other users.
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tantek sebboh - words like "namespace" make pretty much zero sense to a typical user, so we avoid them here. we do have a dev-specific chat in #indieweb-dev
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tantek and strongly disagree that "trusted sysadmin is just like a trusted registrar"
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sebboh I just got thrown down the nerd chute.
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tantek in practice that's nearly never the case
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Zegnat To be fair, while the term domain is used that’s not strictly a necessity. Which is why I said identity instead :) I am on a folder on a domain myself.
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sketchess oh great, another developer xD looks like I remain the only .... well like me
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[miklb] kevinmarks (cross posted from chat accidentally) https://petermolnar.net/personal-website-as-archiving-vault/ section there about using Publicize feature on WP.com from petermolnar
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Loqi Bookmarks, favs, likes - backfilling years of gaps
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KartikPrabhu sketchess: I'm not a dev either so no worries :)
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petermolnar KevinMarks wp.com already has jetpack, which has publicize
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petermolnar so posse is done
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petermolnar rel-me is described in /Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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petermolnar mf2 is the tricky bit
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sketchess what are you then KartikPrabhu? :)
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sebboh tantek: registrars just have better PR, and they are almost always organizations rather than individuals. But it's not an important point, I own half a dozen domains... I'm just thinking about the annual cost of domain ownership. There are various ways to get truly free name spaces. (and though all require trust... to wit, so does domain ownership!)
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KartikPrabhu sketchess: assuming you mean "professionally" I'm a physicist
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tantek sebboh, registars have a paid customer relationship, with incentive to provide good customer service. whereas sysadmins on some random server typically don't
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gRegorLove Howdy, #indieweb
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sketchess oh that's lovely another scientist xD
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gRegorLove HWC Bellingham is cancelled tonight. Updating wiki now.
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petermolnar tantek that's what indiehosters was trying to tackle, with no success I believe
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tantek petermolnar: case in point
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petermolnar indeed, unfortunately
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Zegnat gRegorLove that’s too bad! :(
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sebboh tantek: that's unfortunate!
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tantek sebboh it is experience
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petermolnar (saying this as one of those friendly sysadmins hosting sites for friends)
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Zegnat You joining the virtual HWC later today gRegorLove?
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@barryf Homebrew Website Club London group photo #indieweb #hwclondon https://twitter.com/barryf/status/885216748072513537/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/885216748072513537)
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petermolnar although this is the reason why I only host WP for people; it's (more or less) portable
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Loqi it'll be okay
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petermolnar if I happen to stop supporting them, they can take it away easily
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gRegorLove Zegnat: I'll try to for a bit.
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KartikPrabhu sketchess: at this rate you'll run out of people with any profession soon!
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sketchess o.O?
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sketchess what do you mean?
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KartikPrabhu I mean I am the only physicist here (afaik), so "another scientist" is pretty wrong
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sketchess why?
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KartikPrabhu because I'm the only one here
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KartikPrabhu "another person" is far more accurate
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sebboh petermolnar: I recommend working out a deal with rsync.net where you backup user dirs and give each user a key. That way, if you *literally* die (god forbid!), the users at least have a chance to survive.. :) Rsync.net doesn't appear to be going anywhere.
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sketchess not out of my perspective :D
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KartikPrabhu oh well
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sebboh by default, rsync.net accounts only have one key... but they are known for inventing new things for individual customers if the need is legit.
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KartikPrabhu this is really getting into #indieweb-dev territory
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KartikPrabhu does not even understand
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sebboh Chute!
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Zegnat Haha
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sketchess Don't let that bother you KartikPrabhu, things work different for me. I do my very best to be understandable. :)
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KartikPrabhu sketchess: not bothered in the least
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sketchess just a phrase
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Zegnat goes to find the best screenshot to upload as photo
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sketchess and I do my very best to understand you guys xD
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sketchess just to have the letters, is much more difficult
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KartikPrabhu so do I. Which is why we try to keep the more technical aspects on #dev instead
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sketchess o.O? do I went dev?
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KartikPrabhu sketchess: #indieweb-dev channel is for the more techincal/jargony stuff related to indieweb
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KartikPrabhu the goal is to keep this channel as friendly to newcomers as possible
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sketchess do we speak about the same topic?
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sketchess wonders
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KartikPrabhu about indiweb yes
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KartikPrabhu sketchess: #indieweb-chat is for completely off-topic chatter
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sebboh sketchess, I think you can listen in #indieweb-dev if you want to learn more. Am I right, everyone?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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sebboh Myself, I learned almost everything I know from IRC and freely available technical documentation (after somebody on IRC told me to seek it out).
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sketchess excuse, but I think we are on a wrong track here.....
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sketchess an A said and B understood situation
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tantek sketchess, we also have #indieweb-meta for conversations about community / conversations about conversations etc. welcome to join!
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sketchess just sits back
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gRegorLove Everybody is welcome in any of the indieweb rooms regardless of skill, we just ask to keep it on topic.
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sketchess good night and sweet dreams everyone
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Loqi gute nacht!
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Zegnat Probably the first time I beat the actual in person groups in putting a photo up!
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tantek Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 68 karma in this channel (113 overall)
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tantek Zegnat, not counting yesterday ;) https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-11-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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Zegnat Yes. But. I. No.
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tantek Kongaloosh++ for an impressive selfie of HWC Edmonton
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Loqi kongaloosh has 13 karma
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Zegnat 4 Virtual HWCs EU so far, all with a photo, if I count right. 2 more and I have reached the 3 months needed to become a “regular” event :D
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@HWCLondon And thanks also to @kevinmarks for his mightily impressive Noterlive session - see the #indieweb hashtag. (twitter.com/_/status/885227002260856832)
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tantek KevinMarks: photo?
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tantek wow chrisaldrich's Facebook Algorithm post hit #1 on HN
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tantek and his mom liked it https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/885190374213525505 ?
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@ChrisAldrich Sure enough. Mom Likes it! ❤️ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEjT89KVYAA5ofn.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/885190374213525505)
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tantek hey does anyone have a wordpress site that stays up when a post on it hits top of Hackernews?
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aaronpk chrisaldrich does now!
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tantek did he fix it? from that post his site went down and he had to reference the internet archive version
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tantek see the jpg
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Kongaloosh tantek: danke
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aaronpk https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-12/1499875598703000
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Loqi [[chrisaldrich]] It's back on now and hopefully the server won't have as many problems though I'll live with the bugs for a bit.
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Kongaloosh that's an interesting post
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Kongaloosh wow
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tantek SIM-- because https://twitter.com/justin/status/883171036283285508
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Loqi sim has -1 karma
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@justin Someone socially engineered AT&T to get a new SIM for my phone, signed into my Paypal (using 2FA) and withdrew a bunch of money. I am livid (twitter.com/_/status/883171036283285508)
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aaronpk so bad
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sl007 Zegnat : HWC the question about video was because when I organized IWC Berlin last year it was trouble because had no control about the material afterwards, need the bytes somehow, about jitsi - https://jitsi.org/live-streaming-and-recording-a-jitsi-conference/
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sl007 Is this up to date ?
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Zegnat Wasn’t IWC Berlin at Mozilla? Couldn’t they record, as they did in Portland?
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tantek Zegnat: "they" in Portland was me and aaronpk ;)
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tantek and only because we asked we got taught how
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tantek assume nothing happens automatically
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Zegnat tantek, true. I should rephrase that to: Did someone check with Moz Berlin if they could have recorded the entire thing?
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gRegorLove Kongaloosh: I updated some microformats on https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-11-homebrew-website-club and added the HWC summary, so I think duplicating that page for future events should work well, make sure everything shows up in the newsletter properly
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Kongaloosh gRegorLove: ah, thanks
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tantek Zegnat: perhaps ask the IWC Berlin organizers directly? (!tell)
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Kongaloosh I'm not so great with wikiing still
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tantek yes! Kongaloosh with any luck the photo you posted will now show up in Friday's newsletter :)
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Kongaloosh if you have advice, i'd appreciated
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gRegorLove No worries. Event pages in particularly are complicated.
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gRegorLove The main thing was it was missing an opening <div class="h-event">
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Kongaloosh :| embarassing!
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sl007 Zegnat I sent them tons of mails … Somewhen I gave up, I think the server failed to save it or so. It was promised to publish it …
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gRegorLove Great photo btw
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Kongaloosh thanks :D
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Zegnat That photo is amazing! Looks like a good time :D
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Zegnat Kongaloosh++ for capturing a good-time-HWC
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Loqi kongaloosh has 14 karma
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Kongaloosh you can even see someone ducking and hiding in the background!
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gRegorLove Kongaloosh: If you have the next date set already, setting up that page and adding it to /events will also include it in the Upcoming Events section of Friday's newsletter
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Kongaloosh gRegorLove: how do I add to /events?
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Kongaloosh like, I've just been creating a page
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Kongaloosh do I re-edit events every week?
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gRegorLove Unfortunately, yeah. But if you have several dates planned, can do them at once. Use this template to make it a bit easier, though: https://indieweb.org/Template:one-day-event
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gRegorLove If you edit July on /events you'll see some in use.
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Kongaloosh right.
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Kongaloosh HWC question: what's the best way to get non-programmer people involved?
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Kongaloosh I've been pointing people to wordpress and known. Some are doing it because they want to learn how to program in python, so I've been pointing them to flask.
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Kongaloosh figure that we get people up and going then focus on the specifically indie-things
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Zegnat Sit down with them, ask what they would like to do with their site, and get them started with either Known or WP. Those are probably the best lead ons
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Zegnat Sounds like you have been doing alright there :D
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gRegorLove That's a great question, one I haven't been very great at myself. :/
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Kongaloosh right, okay.
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Kongaloosh Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 69 karma in this channel (114 overall)
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tantek Kongaloosh: theoretically, we should be able to point people to /Getting_Started and they should be able to get started without doing any programming
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Zegnat I have found that forcing people onto a blog is not always the best move. A friend of mine doesn’t blog, but I did get him to build an h-card homepage for himself on his personal domain: http://jesselisser.nl/
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Loqi Jesse Lisser
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Kongaloosh ^ this
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tantek Kongaloosh: so start with that page, and then please take note of where they get stuck or confused
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Kongaloosh I've been working on getting people with their personal landing pages first.
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tantek we need that feedback to keep improving that page
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Kongaloosh tantek: I've been kind-of doing that
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Kongaloosh and definately linking people to it
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Kongaloosh I could collect feedback if that would be helpful?
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Zegnat Feedback would be super helpful!
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sknebel yes, please do
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Zegnat Web Sign In with rel-me is a good first step once they have landing pages up. That’s also still the first thing on https://indiewebify.me/ (which is another good starting point)
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Kongaloosh I've been putting together my own personalized getting-started for people with no experience
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sknebel Zegnat: I always get "what for" as a response to that, without having a good immediate answer
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Kongaloosh because my general impression is that it's overwhelming for people
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Zegnat I always present rel-me as “proof of ownership”, rather than “it enables web sign-in”
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Zegnat (as answer to sknebel)
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Kongaloosh like, the mechanical engineering folks really need hand-holding, which is probably reasonable.
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KartikPrabhu Kongaloosh: if engineers need hand-holding then "normal" folk aren't going to be easier
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Zegnat the “journalism folks” we have sometimes tried to target need that too, Kongaloosh. So all feedback from those groups are super helpful.
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: "what for" is always the best question
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KartikPrabhu no one would do anything and spend a lot of time and effort unless they know why
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Kongaloosh KartikPrabhu:^ this
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sknebel KartikPrabhu: indeed, which is why I'm not sure putting that part early is useful (especially since I have no convincing answer!)
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KartikPrabhu the "why" is the biggest problem I have faced. Even people who ahve seen POSSE and backfeed on my site think "it' cool" but are not motivated to have that themselves
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Zegnat Why a personal landing page (“identity”)? Findability and control. You want an employer to find you? A family member? Something to put on your businesscard where people can find more ways to contact you? Landing page.
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Zegnat Why rel-me on the landing page? You control your landing page. You do not control your other identities. Point to e.g. silos taking people’s usernames away. Having rel-me to and from the other online identities means you have an easy way to show that those names are really yours. (Possibly demo this with rel-me-verify browser extension.)
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sl007 Zegnat To be true when I study https://indieweb.org/Virtual_HWC#Platforms I would go for mumble + etherpad in a selfhosted way in a nice ui … I mean is there a benefit of seeing our wrinkles ?
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KartikPrabhu tbh I did the whole set my own site up and indiewebify it becaause I thought it was a "cool idea" not because I wanted to "preserve my content" when silos go down
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Zegnat Those explanations have been doing well for me, KartikPrabhu Kongaloosh sknebel
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Zegnat The preserve content argument I find to really only work with a small subset of people so far :( Landing pages are easier to understand.
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: most people I know, don't care about those things since they think FB, Twitter, LinkedIn work for those
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KartikPrabhu and they don't want to mix those audiences either
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Zegnat If they really don’t want to mix audiences or have a single point of contact, it is moot. But that basically means they are not interested of owning a single web identity in the first place. Should you really try getting those people onboard then?
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Zegnat sl007: while webcam is secondary, we have used the ability to screenshare at different points. It is awesome for demos. You lose that with Mumble.
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tantek what is Mumble
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Loqi Mumble is an open-source voice chat platform https://indieweb.org/Mumble
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sl007 with very low latency
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sl007 Zegnat I see
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: "single web identity" is not the only indieweb principle. To me "owning your content" is more important and people still feel using silos does that for you
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sebboh Zegnat: I'm new here but I think if somebody is using something like facebook, then there is still value in getting them onto their own website, so they can control how their data is used.
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sknebel sl007 Zegnat: might be worth investigating if there is something better at screen sharing than video. E.g. for colloberation I've primarily used Teamviewer or similar, without video
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petermolnar which is somewhat true, IF you have a proper, portable data option
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sebboh + exclusively, like they only use one platform.
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petermolnar (re KartikPrabhu owning content)
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: talky works for screensharng too
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petermolnar talky burns my cpu
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: yeah it is a bit intensive
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Zegnat I have been having a hard time selling it to people on “owning your content” because very few people seem to feel their content requires permanency. Instead I have found landing pages easier to sell people on. But YMMV KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: we are not disagreeing at all. I think the main issue is to get people to care in the first place
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tantek what is a homepage?
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Loqi Your homepage represents you on the web, typically at the top of your domain, and shows your name and an iconic representation, often marked up with h-card https://indieweb.org/homepage
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Zegnat In fact, because they don’t require the permanency of owning yourself, they prefer Facebook because there they have the proper audience tools that we can’t offer
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KartikPrabhu and diff. people care abotu diff. things
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tantek what is a landing page
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "landing page" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek landing page is homepage
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Loqi ok
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petermolnar Zegnat there are different groups; eg. there are those who lost data due to silo deaths - those will indeed value the own your data thing
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sknebel Zegnat: Them having *any* independent web identity is a good step, even if you can't automatically verify that it double-links to their social media (really, do we/you use that outside of rel-me-auth? I don't think I do in code I actually use (yet))
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petermolnar those who've not yet been burnt - same with backups by the way - will find the "it's really mine" part more interesting
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petermolnar especially those who hadn't experienced myspace or the web before that
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Zegnat I wrote a rel verification browser extension, so yeah, I guess I use it, sknebel ;)
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petermolnar when you had the power to do something uniquely you
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sknebel Zegnat: you use that extension outside of demoing or testing?
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Zegnat sknebel sl007 having something next to mumble for screensharing/presenting would be really interesting. If there is such a thing we definitely need to evaluate. Teamviewer seems like overkill to me.
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: "uniquely" is a problem, because having a "unique web site" requires a lot more work wrt personalising site design etc..
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Zegnat sknebel, very little, but my constantly breaking version of the extension also shows me when a page includes rel-me and that has made it a lot more interesting
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sknebel Zegnat: interesting
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sknebel why breaking?
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu not really, no; you can make something generic quite unique with not _that_ much work by making it a bit different, a bit odd, compared to the "normal"
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sknebel Zegnat: yeah, teamviewer isn't ideal, just an example of a thing that does more screenshare than other stuff. I've done pair programming over Teamviewer for days, that's why I thought about it
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petermolnar (pair programming: ssh + vim ftw)
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Zegnat Because I am not yet used to either fetch api or the WebExtension API. I need to schedule a day of sitting down with it and actually getting it on track again
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: "not_that_much work" yes for you and I maybe
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petermolnar no, I mean it; a long while ago there was a custom proto-social-network where you could, due to a bug, add inline ccs applied for the whole site
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petermolnar people ended up customizing it bit by bit
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KartikPrabhu yyeah needs you to know how to add inline CSS
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Zegnat unique is easy. Pair programming indeed. Teach them a little CSS and before you know it they have a 2 column website with a rotated photo! http://emmahodge.org/ (still my favourite indieweb site, as I believe it captures perfectly how you can start playing with your own site)
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Loqi Emma Hodge
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petermolnar yes, some of us went to extremes, reformatting the whole site
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petermolnar but most just "hacked" bits, copied from forum posts and replaced with their images and colors
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petermolnar which is really not hard
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petermolnar and this is ~10 years ago
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: yes I have done that see: http://paralleltransport.blogspot.com/
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petermolnar you don't have to go to extremes to make is unique, that's what I'm saying
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KartikPrabhu now good luck telling anyone else using a silo to do that
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KartikPrabhu again people who know HTML+CSS are not the issue here
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petermolnar eg. facebook: if one would replace all the blue with pink, for now, since that would be the only one like that, it's be unique already
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KartikPrabhu they can do wahtever they want/like
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: "unique" is stretching it
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petermolnar people who are not willing to copy paste CSS will never get on board of indieweb
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KartikPrabhu Twitter already does color theming
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: ^^ that
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Zegnat Emma didn’t actually know HTML & CSS before going to an event, which is why I think she makes the *perfect* example
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sknebel petermolnar: heh, there was a German social network that was like facebook, but pink. tons of people had userCSS to turn it blue
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petermolnar from fixed colors, which is a bad joke
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petermolnar sknebel oh the irony :D
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[miklb] I hope to minimize that someday with the the WordPress theme I’m building. Will support the “customizer” but be ready for all of the IW plugins w/mf2
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KartikPrabhu the point is to convince people who don't know CSS and HTML or any web thing
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sknebel how's the tumblr-verse in that regard? there you still have customization, right?
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Zegnat Tumblr is 100% customisable AFAIK.
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu why is that a point?
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petermolnar Zegnat it is
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KartikPrabhu wordpress.com has themeing too, but how many people use wordpress instead of Twitter or FB?
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Zegnat Tumblr basically gives you their own little template engine and you plus HTML, CSS, and JS in to your hearts desire
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petermolnar surprisingly, those who are willing to write, do use WP
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: because that is what was being discussed, how to convince people to have their own websites
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petermolnar same for tumblr and weird artists
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu we have to accept that there is a significant mass of people who are not willing to learn or do anything that's not free, easy and already done
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: if we are stickking to devs or people who know their way around silos, this whole discussion is moot
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petermolnar and I believe those people are way, way beyond our current reach
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petermolnar so instead focus on those who already have something, eg. WP.com, to start using our ideas
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Zegnat People need to have a reason. I think that’s what it comes down to. If they are not interested in having a centralised identity, nor interested in the permanency of their content, anything will be a hard sell. If you can get them on either of those two points (make a landing page on a domain that is your prefered name!) (post to your own place firs
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Zegnat t and have that place post to your usual channels instead, instant backup!) you can start bringing them onboard.
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Zegnat For everything else … multiuser known instance managed by a third party? Mastodon?
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petermolnar we have gen1, some gen2; KartikPrabhu you're talking gen4 when we should be aiming gen2 long tail and gen3 early adopters
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: even those "need to have a reason" as Zegnat put it
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KartikPrabhu "do this becaause it is cool" is not a reason for a lot of time/effort investment for anyone
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petermolnar indeed
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Zegnat asks Isi to make sure to write down questions that come up during Ft Colins HWC tonight
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KartikPrabhu for instaaance "why shold wordpress make the effort to switch from mf1 to mf2" ?
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Zegnat I hear there will be 3 people at HWC Fort Collins. I am not sure anyone there is gen1!
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KartikPrabhu that is even a gen1 question for wordpress core devs
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sebboh Hm, "because it is cool" is totally a reason, it's like .. the most important reason. I got my own members.<isp>.com/user site when I was, hm, 15? Because it was cool! Later, geocities.. then <my buddy's linux box>.net/~hobbes, and later my own domain, served off that same machine.. Because it was cool!
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KartikPrabhu sebboh: yes, it was for me too. but not for most people
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sebboh How much of this indieweb movement is targeted at children? I think the answer should be "a lot". Mozilla knows this. Tons of their "learn html using this interactive widget!" stuff is targeted at youth.
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sebboh come to think of it, there was a time when geocities was superior to <isp>.com because I'd lose the latter anytime I switched ISPs.. but geocities was on the net, independent of my ISP.. oh, irony...
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Zegnat I don’t know if any of us is working with kids for indieweb. I know jkphl does the Nürnberg CoderDojo which is aimed at kids
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Zegnat I am assuming snarfed is making sure his daughter inherits bridgy and keeps that running for us? ;)
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sebboh What do kids do on the net in general? Snapchat?
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gRegorLove I wouldn't say "aimed at" but we've definitely had a young kid demo before. It was rad. https://indieweb.org/2014/Demos#Faire
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Zegnat Also, on the subject of doing it because it is cool: https://indieweb.org/309 - tantek, why aren’t you on that list yet?!
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tantek Zegnat, still thinking about what the content should be that I return :)
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Zegnat 0.04GB left of my daily allotment of internet. Well. I’m off to bed ;)
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Zegnat Have a good HWC day everyone!
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@huffduffer State of the IndieWeb - Keynote - IndieWeb Summit 2017 https://huffduffer.com/johnjohnston/418019 (twitter.com/_/status/885244573408210944)
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sknebel good night!
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Loqi sweet dreams
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sebboh http://the-good-guys.net/8675/
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sebboh :D
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sebboh you folks have a pretty legit method of auth for the wiki.
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@kevinmarks My notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club London 1st Anniversary http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2017-07-12.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/885251865620791296)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "My notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club London 1st Anniversary http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2017-07-12.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-07-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/my-notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-london-1st-anniversary
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gRegorLove Yeah, indieauth is pretty cool
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sebboh I didn't check that out but the whole me-rel link thing is neat.
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@ceronman Today I learn about the IndieWeb (https://indieweb.org/) cc @offrayLC (me recordó a #LaPropiaNubecita) (twitter.com/_/status/885252699821920257)
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gRegorLove Oh, IndieAuth is an implementation of the rel-me auth. https://indieauth.com
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gRegorLove That's what the wiki uses
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sknebel indieauth.com is
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sknebel (aaronpk, you sure you just don't want to throw a dart at a dictionary and get the renaming over with? :P)
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gRegorLove IndieAuthTheServiceNotTheProtocol dot com
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tantek since the service is user-facing, it deserves a more user-friendly name
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tantek more user-friendly than IndieAuth that is
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gRegorLove Relevant: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/138
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Loqi [aaronpk] #138 Rename the project
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tantek those comments
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gRegorLove rhiaro++ for that comment
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Loqi rhiaro has 60 karma in this channel (272 overall)
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KartikPrabhu how about Authie McAuthface?
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gRegorLove Yeah I'm thinking "Log In" or "Sign In" should probably be part of the name somehow. Advertise clearly what it does on the box.
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tantek not necessarily - as long as it is a trustworthy sounding name, the UI / copy can speak for itself
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tantek though possibly. hmm...
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schmarty baltimore is beginning our HWC quiet writing hour
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Zegnat can't sleep and is contemplating attending a second HWC today
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snarfed oh man cool, a tweetstorm-to-blog-post tool: https://tinysubversions.com/spooler/
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tantek snarfed, if you can find a github repo for it, perhaps we can help add h-entry support
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@mathpunk I found this #indieweb hack on manipulating FB into not misunderstanding your intended audience fascinating http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/11/the-facebook-algorithm-mom-problem/ (twitter.com/_/status/885274496327835649)
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tantek alternative: disconnect from your family on FB
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tantek (and yes, use other means of connecting with your family)
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[miklb] is that really an “indieweb hack” ?
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Kongaloosh I guess it's a hack that indieweb people might care about?
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Kongaloosh I often think about how my posts look on other sites, until I realize it's a lot of effort.
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Kongaloosh I thought it was useful.
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[chrisaldrich] Syndicating to get greater reach is nice, but typically I don't think much about it.
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[chrisaldrich] The Facebook quirk with my mom was something that was making POSSE to FB completely useless in a general sense though.
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Kongaloosh [chrisaldrich]++
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Loqi chrisaldrich has 35 karma in this channel (47 overall)
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Kongaloosh that was a super-interesting post
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[chrisaldrich] Glad anyone could read it with my server slammed all day.
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[chrisaldrich] In some sense, being slashdotted by Hacker News was an interesting way to "celebrate" Net neutrality--I know what it'd be like without it today.
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GWG Did that get syndicated there?
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GWG I didn't realize
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tantek does Bridgy Publish have audience syndication options?
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sebboh [chrisaldrich]: I couldn't find your post in the Internet Archive when you server got hugged, but I found it in google's cache.
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[miklb] what is audience syndication options
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "audience syndication options" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebboh s/you /your /
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[eddie] chrisaldrich: The Virtual HWC America East is officially starting at 8:30pm EST? (Just over an hour) with “quiet writing hour” starting in a couple of minutes. Am I reading the times right?
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GWG [eddie]: YEs
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[chrisaldrich] Yup; GWG and I were debating broadcasting quiet writing hour, but I think we're passing...
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tantek I think that would be hilarious
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[chrisaldrich] continues working on updates to the /WordPress parts of the wiki for QWH.
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tantek nothing but keyclicks
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tantek maybe occasional glances up from the keyboard
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tantek like working in a cafe
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[eddie] ? That would have been funny. :thumbsup: Sounds good. See you all in about an hour
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gRegorLove starts writing quietly-ish
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[chrisaldrich] I'd make funny faces occasionally to see if anyone was paying attention....
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gRegorLove There's https://coffitivity.com if anyone needs it
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tantek that sounds too close to covfefe
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, wanna start a wiki-hackathon to see who can do the most in an hour? ?
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tantek oh boy
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gRegorLove lol
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gRegorLove I think I'm gonna work on an actual post
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GWG tantek: We've done that
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: I think I remember doing a QWH broadcast once with kevinmarks calling in from his train ride into SF for HWC there....
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I can top that this time, can't I?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "TONIGHT! Homebrew Website Club SF @MozSF 17:30 quiet writing hour 18:30 #IndieWeb meetup RSVP: tantek.com/2017/193/e1/homebrew-website-club" on 2017-07-12 http://tantek.com/2017/193/t2/tonight-indieweb-meetup
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@t TONIGHT! Homebrew Website Club SF @MozSF 17:30 quiet writing hour 18:30 #IndieWeb meetup RSVP: http://tantek.com/2017/193/e1/homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4pK2) (twitter.com/_/status/885281494469668866)
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tantek whoa HWC London was huge this week! https://twitter.com/barryf/status/885216748072513537
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@barryf Homebrew Website Club London group photo #indieweb #hwclondon https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEjr7ykXsAABwgQ.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/885216748072513537)
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@gRegorLove Working on a post about microformats during Online Homebrew Website Club quiet writing hour. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/885282223666200576)
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@gRegorLove You can join us for the Online Homebrew Website Club meetup starting in about an hour! https://indieweb.org/next-hwc#Virtual_Americas (twitter.com/_/status/885282626482786304)
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@benwerd Looking forward to Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla SF tonight. 6:30pm, with an optional writing hour at 5:30pm. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/885287205345808384)