#indieweb 2017-08-13

2017-08-13 UTC
eli_oat, plindner, M-hotzeplotz, pniedzielski[m], AlanPearce[m], M-mxuribe, lucaconti[m], myfreeweb, Salt[m], zoglesby, TheGillies, mindB, garlox[m], eli_oat[m], afrogeek[m], strk[m], doubleloop[m], schmarty, M-podviaznikov, tokelove[m], DYM[m], jaduncan[m], crasch[m], fzylogic, wolftune, snarfed and JulianFoad[m] joined the channel
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Loqi [indienews/de] New post: "? Weniger Social Media, mehr Mensch by René Meister" https://renem.net/post/2017-08-12-weniger-social-media-mehr-mensch/ (from http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/12/weniger-social-media-mehr-mensch-by-rene-meister/)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "? Weniger Social Media, mehr Mensch by René Meister" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-13 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/12/weniger-social-media-mehr-mensch-by-rene-meister/
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@ChrisAldrich Reasons why @rretsiem has joined the #IndieWeb "Less social media, more people" (German) http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/12/weniger-social-media-mehr-mensch-by-rene-meister/ (twitter.com/_/status/896559930978832385)
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[chrisaldrich] renem Thanks! Those activity posts are awesome, I suspect that those using Strava (tantek and sknebel iirc) may be interested in them for UI.
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sknebel not me - maybe sebsel?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "? One possible benefit from disabling comments by Colin Devroe" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-12 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/11/one-possible-benefit-from-disabling-comments-by-colin-devroe/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "? Link: The futility of science communication conferences by John Hawks" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-12 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/11/link-the-futility-of-science-communication-conferences-by-john-hawks/
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[chrisaldrich] sknebel, perhaps you're right; I remember a handful of people starting to chat about /Strava a few months ago. Maybe cleverdevil was part of that as well?
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@ScalaWilliam I'll pay $10 to migrate an article: http://work.scalawilliam.com/migrate-standards-article/ #git #freelance #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/896598032254255104)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Getting a WP blog on my site is my next #indieweb itch, and this will make it much easier to setup. Thanks for going through" by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://raretrack.uk/2017/getting-a-wp-blog-on-my-site-is-my-next
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Loqi [superfeedr] "I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer or a developer. Have used Known for a few years now," by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://raretrack.uk/2017/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but
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sebsel [chrisaldrich] I am on Strava indeed! And raucao made a way to do PESOS last IWS.
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sebsel who is raucao?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User:Sebastian.kip.pe
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sebsel I believe Strava has those images too if you share your run on Twitter. I like it as a POSSE option, but on my own site, I rather have the data searchable :)
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sebsel Just a random one from Twitter by searching for "Strava", this is Strava's own map for POSSE'ing: https://twitter.com/mascara_face/status/896635076104114176
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@mascara_face Check out my run on Strava. https://www.strava.com/activities/1130831138 Longest run in ages - I need more time to run!! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHF82XoWAAAQwWr.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/896635076104114176)
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sebsel The difference here is that these are maps, I see now, and not photo's.
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sebsel Ah no, they do photo too, if the activity has a photo: https://twitter.com/WhiskyWhistle/status/895836282642767872
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@WhiskyWhistle Check out my ride on #Strava. https://www.strava.com/activities/1127620447 and watch the LIVE ride with #whisky talk! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG6mWd-VoAAcGlU.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/895836282642767872)
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sebsel what is Strava?
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Loqi Strava is a run and bicycle exercise tracking silo that also has native client apps https://indieweb.org/Strava
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sebsel I'll document after breakfast :)
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raretrack What is this running thing of which you speak? <<< cyclist on Strava ;)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "this running thing of which you speak" yet. Would you like to create it?
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raretrack Woops, that'll teach me not to start a sentence with "what is" in here!
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[renem] Maybe have a look at Runalyze, which is a solution that you can host yourself and is mainly for Runners, not so great photos but maps currently embedded as iFrame. But OpenSource on Github.
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[renem] I use it for my runs with the hosted solution, but that isn't the only way.
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sketchess Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb. :)
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Zegnat Good morning sketchess, IndieWeb!
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sketchess Welcome Zegnat. Today I would have a concret code problem to solve. I do not know, which tag is the best to use. ;D Interested?
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Zegnat I love looking at HTML problems
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sketchess Where do we meet?
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Zegnat General development questions can always go into #indieweb-dev that’ll also allow other people to jump in if I don’t have the answer
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sketchess Then dev shell it be.
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@johnjohnston I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer... by Rob Fairhead ... http://johnjohnston.info/blog/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but-im-not-a-programmer-or-a-developer-have-used-known-for-a-few-years-now-and-im-definitely-signed-up-to-the-whole-indieweb-phi/ (twitter.com/_/status/896684081899081728)
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@EchoChamberUncu I’m probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I’m not a programmer… by Rob Fairhead… | john https://educationechochamberuncut.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but-im-not-a-programmer-by-rob-fairhead-john/ (twitter.com/_/status/896699511300665345)
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@EchoChamberUncu I’m probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I’m not a programmer… by Rob Fairhead… | john https://educationechochamberuncut.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but-im-not-a-programmer-by-rob-fairhead-john-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/896700786809470976)
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sketchess is happy
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Loqi [superfeedr] "I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer or a developer. Have used Known for a few years now," by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://www.raretrack.uk/2017/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Getting a WP blog on my site is my next #indieweb itch, and this will make it much easier to setup. Thanks for going through" by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://www.raretrack.uk/2017/getting-a-wp-blog-on-my-site-is-my-next
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@davewiner This is why we have to attack the problems that make being independent on the web so difficult. #indieweb https://twitter.com/johnjohnston/status/896684081899081728 (twitter.com/_/status/896727760957304832)
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sketchess Funny. I never ever ever will try to do things with 'ready to go silos' ever again. What a waste of time they in fact were. Now, I do not even know why I hesitated to become my own webmaster again. xD
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sketchess At the time I was young, almost everyone was coding. I wonder how many kids of today might enjoy it.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "What's needed to make the #indieweb thrive" on 2017-08-13 http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412
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sketchess coding brake
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@davewiner The use-case for the #indieweb storage system. http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412 (twitter.com/_/status/896736259661496320)
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@bullmancuso The use-case for the #indieweb storage system. http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412 (twitter.com/_/status/896736431229595649)
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@davewiner This is the storage system that the #indieweb needs. http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412 (twitter.com/_/status/896737169188024320)
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@Qyooh http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412 The #indieweb storage system (twitter.com/_/status/896738687882600449)
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@OccuWorld The #indieweb storage system http://www.occuworld.org/news/3575835 (twitter.com/_/status/896739707110948864)
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@wannaable_twt OccuWorld: The #indieweb storage system http://www.occuworld.org/news/3575835 (twitter.com/_/status/896740835580137472)
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@garethjordan @johnjohnston My exact thoughts. Known account, domain, WordPress blog+ #indieweb plug-in(s) lost in rel me,Bridgy.… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896744212544327680 (twitter.com/_/status/896744212544327680)
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@TINTechBloggers Whats needed to make the #indieweb thrive (Scripting News) http://www.techinvestornews.com/Tech-News/Tech-Bloggers/whats-needed-to-make-the-indieweb-thrive (twitter.com/_/status/896744675486212097)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Owning my audio clips" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-08-13 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/owning-my-audio-clips
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@RohanPinto The #indieweb storage system http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html%2523a094412 (twitter.com/_/status/896756514383425536)
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tantek Odd, I mentioned indiewebcamp in my most recent post but it didn't show up here. Superfeedr delay?
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Loqi tantek: sebsel left you a message 3 days, 5 hours ago: We discussed delete-of in the context of untag, so it is mentioned there. https://indieweb.org/untag
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tantek at the risk of making Loqi spew: http://tantek.com/2017/225/t1/not-check-facebook-first-post-fortnight
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Did not check* Facebook for 2 weeks. This is my first post in a fortnight. Didn’t listen to iPod for 12d. Returning home from Paris after 10 days, everything seemed the same but different. I know yoga teacher training changed me, more inside than ...
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tantek I see that's been fixed at least :)
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ada[m] Hi everyone. I'm trying to add mf markup to https://view.matrix.org, but I'm not personally the most familiar with the syntax in the world. 2 questions at the moment:
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ada[m] 1. Is there a way I should markup the landing page at view.matrix.org to make it clear that each link to a room contains an h-feed?
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ada[m] 2. The page for each room is in chronological order rather than reverse-chronological order. How do I show that?
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Zegnat Hmm, I am not sure anyone is doing feeds of feeds.
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tantek BTW what do people think of the new Swarm UI?
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tantek (pretty major app update from 2017-08-10 I think, just installed it myself last night)
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sebsel I like it! Less clutter, cleaner design.
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sebsel They changed the rules of the game, tho.
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tantek oh?
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sebsel You now can't buy stickers anymore, making the coins useless (you have a total and a weekly score, that's it)
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tantek I saw some stickers got moved from being multipliers to just "Bonus"
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sebsel And they removed one of my frequently used stickers (public transport earthingies)
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tantek no it got moved to "Bonus"
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tantek "Commuter"
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tantek it's still there
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tantek odd that the "Collectible" stickers have the 2x / 3x multipliers, while the "Bonus" stickers do not
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sebsel I am not sure if I understand "bonus" here :)
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tantek I'm not sure either.
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tantek hey ada[m] - were you able to figure out how to markup matrix-static?
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tantek I think a simple h-feed with an h-entry for each row would be a good start
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tantek also for each room, chronological vs reverse-chronological doesn't matter. h-feed works either way
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sebsel tantek Ah, I found it! You mean: the sticker still exists but has no multiplier. The other section of stickers is called "Bonus". But they don't give you bonus points, hence my confusion :)
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tantek sebsel, yeah exactly. hence why I said "odd that..." :)
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sebsel I guess I just have to visit another category of venues more often then :)
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sebsel (I am going more to parks since I use Swarm.)
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tantek Indeed!
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tantek One of the reasons I like Swarm (and it's UI) is that it's very encouraging of doing things in the real world, and not just spending endless time online, reading streams, replying etc.
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tantek its* UI
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tantek also the new "visited map" is pretty cool
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tantek apparently I've visited more places in Oregon than New York (just by 1)
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[shurcool] Hi there. I've got a quick question that's _probably_ common... it's about indieauth and rel="me" links. So, I _used to_ have those links on the index page, but I've ended up moving them to an `/about` page. That ends up breaking my ability to sign in via indieauth. What are some typical ways to resolve that/work around that?
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bear you need something on your domain's home page that is a rel=me - even if it's in the header or a hidden element
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bear but that's only for indieauth - you can still have all of your profile info in /about
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[shurcool] I understand the technical requirement. I'm curious from a design standpoint, how do people usually solve this?
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tantek pretty sure that's an FAQ - bear did you check the wiki page?
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bear yea,i'm looking now
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[shurcool] I checked https://indieweb.org/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain but don't see any links to FAQ for that topic there
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bear this has examples -- https://indieauth.com/setup
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bear and I got to that from https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth
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bear and this page has a lot of useful examples also https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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[shurcool] sorry, where are the examples at https://indieauth.com/setup?
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bear right at the top
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bear it shows that you can do it with a simple <link /> in the header
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[shurcool] > Note: If you don't want visible links on your home page, you can instead use <link> tags in your html header.
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[shurcool] ah, see it now
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bear remember that the rel=me for indieauth to work is orhagonal to your profile page
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[shurcool] okay, so hidden links are acceptable
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bear yes
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bear even inside of css
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[shurcool] It felt nice when the profile page (back when it was at root) and indieauth coincided.
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[shurcool] but I guess it's not a hard requirement
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bear nope, there are as many ways to do it as their are indieweb folks I think :)
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[shurcool] I'm still considering adding a footer that would have visible links. so it's either that, or going with invisible links.
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[shurcool] has anyone come up with a different solution other than footer or hidden links?
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bear yea, some folks like to add an h-card element on every page in some location
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bear well, the semantics of h-card and rel-me offer variety but they are also structured -- so not a ton of variation
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[shurcool] all right. thanks a lot ?
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bear but again, the rel=me links just are pointers for indieauth to know which pages represent you for authentication
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bear that's a lot different than how/why you would craft an h-card
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[shurcool] I see, makes sense
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bear it's just common enough for them to be blended
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[shurcool] I guess I started out by conflating the two, so it felt a bit unnatural to separate them. but nothing wrong with that
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bear *nods*
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bear it's helpful to step back and follow the process *why* indieauth consumes rel=me links
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bear it uses them as a list of items in *your* domain that are sources of links back to your domain
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bear and that they are sources that are not your domain but that you would need control over to change
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bear that's really all they are
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Zegnat [shurcool], I just don’t use RelMeAuth, that’s my solution.
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bear i'm going afk for a bit - but please do post any followup questions, I'll be back later or someone else will eventually help - August week-end days are often slow in the channel ;)
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Zegnat You can implement the IndieAuth protocol on your own end, or use a finished package like https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth for Web sign-in, instead of rel="me" links
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Loqi [Inklings-io] selfauth: self-hosted auth_endpoint using simple login mechanism
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bear Zegnat - yea, I wasn't even going to start down the path of rel="authorization_endpoint"
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bear but i'll pass the indieweb auth batton to you for a bit :)
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bear goes afk
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Zegnat RelMeAuth via indieauth.com isn’t much else than outsourcing your auth endpoint though. So linking your own endpoint is a solution if you do not want to link social media platforms on your homepage
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tantek Zegnat and that's definitely #indiweb-dev talk :)
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Zegnat [shurcool] asked here what people are doing to get around having rel=me links on their homepages, I use selfauth. Doesn’t sound like dev to me?
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tantek yes, setting up selfauth is definitely dev - not something a non-dev user would be able to do
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Zegnat is confused about when something becomes dev then
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Zegnat Anything that involves uploading a file to a webserver = dev?
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[shurcool] That's an interesting alternative, thanks for sharing Zegnat
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[shurcool] If I understand correctly, I could implement that rel="authorization_endpoint" on my home page and that'd be sufficient to login to the wiki at https://indieweb.org, is that right?
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Zegnat Yes
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Zegnat Any website that supports IndieAuth, or uses indieauth.com, to let people login will let you login with that. Including - of course - the wiki :D
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[shurcool] and I wouldn't depend on indieauth.com for doing... auth stuff. I'm being vague because I don't know the exact terms without looking more into it now, and I'm just doing cursory discovery/research right now
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Zegnat You are correct
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sknebel some sites (like the wiki) still let indieauth.com handle all of that for them, but on your side nothing depends on it
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Zegnat The wiki will still go to indieauth.com, because it has outsourced the checks. But something like https://telegraph.p3k.io/ (a webmention sender) will communicate straight with your own site
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Zegnat (sniped by sknebel)
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tantek Zegnat, "involves uploading a file to a webserver = dev" typically yes
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[shurcool] right. just to confirm, I'm not looking to let people sign in to my site via indieauth, just to be able to use my site to login to other sites that support indieauth
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tantek unless it has a simple UI like https://indieweb.org/Special:Upload
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Zegnat Yes, this is just you using your site for login
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tantek [shurcool]: that's correct, and again, that distinction is why a lot of this conversation is more developer-like
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tantek Zegnat how do you upload a file to webserver?
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Zegnat tantek, personally? SFTP. Though my mom uploads to the same server through the control panel our hosting provider gives us.
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[shurcool] bummer, it looks like I can't pm other people here unless they're also in slack (I'm guessing)
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tantek and even then they may never see it
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[shurcool] I guess I'll use email ?
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Zegnat Yeah, the Slack bridge doesn’t do PMs. Though I am not sure what it does when you try?
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Zegnat Or doesn’t Slack allow you to send anything at all?
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[shurcool] i think it only shows you actual slack users here
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[shurcool] you don't show up in the list at all
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Zegnat Makes sense
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[shurcool] your messages are proxies by an `incoming-webhook` app
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[shurcool] /s/proxies/proxied/
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[shurcool] thanks for help/information again
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[miklb] Zegnat can you post the topic for this channel too or I can fire up IRC
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Zegnat Next meetups: Homebrew Website Club https://indieweb.org/events/2017-08-23-homebrew-website-club, Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log http://chat.indieweb.org/today
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Zegnat Is the topic
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[miklb] miklb set the channel topic: Next meetups: Homebrew Website Club https://indieweb.org/events/2017-08-23-homebrew-website-club, Code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log http://chat.indieweb.org/today
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[miklb] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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sebsel Here it would be nice if Loqi could bridge them :P
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sknebel yes
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ada[m] tantek: haven't finished yet, but I think I'm on the right path now. Thanks :)
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tantek great!
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@garethjordan More #WithKnown & #indieweb - https://garethjordan.withknown.com/2017/more-withknown-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/896826831453683714)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "I'm curious what, if anything, you all think that the IndieWeb as a community could do or do better to make things easier for Generation" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-13 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/im-curious-what-if-anything-you-all-think-that-the
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DanC_ I'm thinking about taking photos with my android device and syncing them but without sharing with google. Any experience here?
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DanC_ owncloud seems to have something in the neighborhood, maybe
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sknebel DanC_: there is also an app called FolderSync, but I haven't tried it myself
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DanC_ how does it get access to photos? apps don't share files, if I understand right
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[kevinmarks] Is the new Swarm iOS only? It looks the same to me on android
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sknebel DanC_: at least my old-fashioned device has a folder with images that all apps with filesystem access can access?
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DanC_ I guess so...
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DanC_ maybe my concern is: I'm happy for google to back up most of my photos. I just want to keep some of them for myself
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sknebel hm, not sure what a good workflow for that would look like
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DanC_ well, currently I have a couple ways of getting images on my phone: (a) the camera app, and (b) a thing that scans documents to google drive
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DanC_ I'm interested in something kinda like (b)
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sknebel ah
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sknebel hm
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sknebel maybe you can install a second camera app and configure that with a different folder?
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KartikPrabhu my camera app syncs with Dropbox. Dropbox app also has a scan option
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DanC_ yeah... so... I'm interested in a solution that doesn't involve sharing with Dropbox or google...
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DanC_ though... even stuff like https://oasis.sandstorm.io/ is ultimately backed by google cloud compute (or AWS? I think it's google). But at least in that case, google isn't using it to sell ads (I think/hope)
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DanC_ I guess Dropbox isn't motivated by ads/attention; they have plenty of customers spending $$ for storage
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sknebel DanC_: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera would be an example
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sknebel you possibly could install that in parallel, set it to a different folder and then have owncloud/nextcloud/... sync that folder
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sknebel (not tested ofc)
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DanC_ gives it a try...
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DanC_ ooh... this could be it: "Pause after taking photo - If ticked, after taking a photo the display will pause, with options to share Share icon or delete Trash icon the photo." -- http://opencamera.org.uk/help.html