#indieweb 2017-08-13

2017-08-13 UTC
eli_oat, plindner, M-hotzeplotz, pniedzielski[m], AlanPearce[m], M-mxuribe, lucaconti[m], myfreeweb, Salt[m], zoglesby, TheGillies, mindB, garlox[m], eli_oat[m], afrogeek[m], strk[m], doubleloop[m], schmarty, M-podviaznikov, tokelove[m], DYM[m], jaduncan[m], crasch[m], fzylogic, wolftune, snarfed and JulianFoad[m] joined the channel
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "? Weniger Social Media, mehr Mensch by René Meister" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-13 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/12/weniger-social-media-mehr-mensch-by-rene-meister/
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@ChrisAldrich
Reasons why @rretsiem has joined the #IndieWeb "Less social media, more people" (German) http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/12/weniger-social-media-mehr-mensch-by-rene-meister/
(twtr.io/1UxtAqKyHt5)
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[chrisaldrich]
renem Thanks! Those activity posts are awesome, I suspect that those using Strava (tantek and sknebel iirc) may be interested in them for UI.
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sknebel
not me - maybe sebsel?
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "? One possible benefit from disabling comments by Colin Devroe" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-12 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/11/one-possible-benefit-from-disabling-comments-by-colin-devroe/
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "? Link: The futility of science communication conferences by John Hawks" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-12 http://boffosocko.com/2017/08/11/link-the-futility-of-science-communication-conferences-by-john-hawks/
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[chrisaldrich]
sknebel, perhaps you're right; I remember a handful of people starting to chat about /Strava a few months ago. Maybe cleverdevil was part of that as well?
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@ScalaWilliam
I'll pay $10 to migrate an article: http://work.scalawilliam.com/migrate-standards-article/ #git #freelance #indieweb
(twtr.io/1Uy6nUtBvJQ)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Getting a WP blog on my site is my next #indieweb itch, and this will make it much easier to setup. Thanks for going through" by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://raretrack.uk/2017/getting-a-wp-blog-on-my-site-is-my-next
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer or a developer. Have used Known for a few years now," by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://raretrack.uk/2017/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but
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sebsel
[chrisaldrich] I am on Strava indeed! And raucao made a way to do PESOS last IWS.
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sebsel
who is raucao?
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sebsel
I believe Strava has those images too if you share your run on Twitter. I like it as a POSSE option, but on my own site, I rather have the data searchable :)
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sebsel
Just a random one from Twitter by searching for "Strava", this is Strava's own map for POSSE'ing: https://twitter.com/mascara_face/status/896635076104114176
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sebsel
The difference here is that these are maps, I see now, and not photo's.
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sebsel
Ah no, they do photo too, if the activity has a photo: https://twitter.com/WhiskyWhistle/status/895836282642767872
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sebsel
what is Strava?
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Loqi
Strava is a run and bicycle exercise tracking silo that also has native client apps https://indieweb.org/Strava
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sebsel
I'll document after breakfast :)
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raretrack
What is this running thing of which you speak? <<< cyclist on Strava ;)
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "this running thing of which you speak" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10rM
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raretrack
Woops, that'll teach me not to start a sentence with "what is" in here!
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[renem]
Maybe have a look at Runalyze, which is a solution that you can host yourself and is mainly for Runners, not so great photos but maps currently embedded as iFrame. But OpenSource on Github.
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[renem]
I use it for my runs with the hosted solution, but that isn't the only way.
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sketchess
Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb. :)
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Zegnat
Good morning sketchess, IndieWeb!
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sketchess
Welcome Zegnat. Today I would have a concret code problem to solve. I do not know, which tag is the best to use. ;D Interested?
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Zegnat
I love looking at HTML problems
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sketchess
Where do we meet?
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Zegnat
General development questions can always go into #indieweb-dev that’ll also allow other people to jump in if I don’t have the answer
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sketchess
Then dev shell it be.
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sketchess
is happy
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer or a developer. Have used Known for a few years now," by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://www.raretrack.uk/2017/im-probably-an-archetypal-indieweb-end-user-love-geeky-stuff-but
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Getting a WP blog on my site is my next #indieweb itch, and this will make it much easier to setup. Thanks for going through" by Rob Fairhead on 2017-08-13 http://www.raretrack.uk/2017/getting-a-wp-blog-on-my-site-is-my-next
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@davewiner
This is why we have to attack the problems that make being independent on the web so difficult. #indieweb https://twitter.com/johnjohnston/status/896684081899081728
(twtr.io/1Uyt813zNTC)
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sketchess
Funny. I never ever ever will try to do things with 'ready to go silos' ever again. What a waste of time they in fact were. Now, I do not even know why I hesitated to become my own webmaster again. xD
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sketchess
At the time I was young, almost everyone was coding. I wonder how many kids of today might enjoy it.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "What's needed to make the #indieweb thrive" on 2017-08-13 http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412
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sketchess
coding brake
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@davewiner
The use-case for the #indieweb storage system. http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412
(twtr.io/1UywAAUC6kL)
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@davewiner
This is the storage system that the #indieweb needs. http://scripting.com/2017/08/13.html#a094412
(twtr.io/1UywVf7i4Y0)
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@garethjordan
@johnjohnston My exact thoughts. Known account, domain, WordPress blog+ #indieweb plug-in(s) lost in rel me,Bridgy.… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896744212544327680
(twtr.io/1Uyz0cw_6_f)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Owning my audio clips" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-08-13 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/owning-my-audio-clips
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tantek
Odd, I mentioned indiewebcamp in my most recent post but it didn't show up here. Superfeedr delay?
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Loqi
tantek: sebsel left you a message 3 days, 5 hours ago: We discussed delete-of in the context of untag, so it is mentioned there. https://indieweb.org/untag
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] Did not check* Facebook for 2 weeks. This is my first post in a fortnight. Didn’t listen to iPod for 12d. Returning home from Paris after 10 days, everything seemed the same but different. I know yoga teacher training changed me, more inside than ...
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tantek
I see that's been fixed at least :)
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ada[m]
Hi everyone. I'm trying to add mf markup to https://view.matrix.org, but I'm not personally the most familiar with the syntax in the world. 2 questions at the moment:
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ada[m]
1. Is there a way I should markup the landing page at view.matrix.org to make it clear that each link to a room contains an h-feed?
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ada[m]
2. The page for each room is in chronological order rather than reverse-chronological order. How do I show that?
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Zegnat
Hmm, I am not sure anyone is doing feeds of feeds.
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tantek
BTW what do people think of the new Swarm UI?
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tantek
(pretty major app update from 2017-08-10 I think, just installed it myself last night)
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sebsel
I like it! Less clutter, cleaner design.
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sebsel
They changed the rules of the game, tho.
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sebsel
You now can't buy stickers anymore, making the coins useless (you have a total and a weekly score, that's it)
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tantek
I saw some stickers got moved from being multipliers to just "Bonus"
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sebsel
And they removed one of my frequently used stickers (public transport earthingies)
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tantek
no it got moved to "Bonus"
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tantek
"Commuter"
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tantek
it's still there
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tantek
odd that the "Collectible" stickers have the 2x / 3x multipliers, while the "Bonus" stickers do not
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sebsel
I am not sure if I understand "bonus" here :)
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tantek
I'm not sure either.
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tantek
hey ada[m] - were you able to figure out how to markup matrix-static?
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tantek
I think a simple h-feed with an h-entry for each row would be a good start
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tantek
also for each room, chronological vs reverse-chronological doesn't matter. h-feed works either way
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sebsel
tantek Ah, I found it! You mean: the sticker still exists but has no multiplier. The other section of stickers is called "Bonus". But they don't give you bonus points, hence my confusion :)
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tantek
sebsel, yeah exactly. hence why I said "odd that..." :)
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sebsel
I guess I just have to visit another category of venues more often then :)
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sebsel
(I am going more to parks since I use Swarm.)
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tantek
Indeed!
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tantek
One of the reasons I like Swarm (and it's UI) is that it's very encouraging of doing things in the real world, and not just spending endless time online, reading streams, replying etc.
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tantek
its* UI
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tantek
also the new "visited map" is pretty cool
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tantek
apparently I've visited more places in Oregon than New York (just by 1)
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[shurcool]
Hi there. I've got a quick question that's _probably_ common... it's about indieauth and rel="me" links. So, I _used to_ have those links on the index page, but I've ended up moving them to an `/about` page. That ends up breaking my ability to sign in via indieauth. What are some typical ways to resolve that/work around that?
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bear
you need something on your domain's home page that is a rel=me - even if it's in the header or a hidden element
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bear
but that's only for indieauth - you can still have all of your profile info in /about
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[shurcool]
I understand the technical requirement. I'm curious from a design standpoint, how do people usually solve this?
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tantek
pretty sure that's an FAQ - bear did you check the wiki page?
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bear
yea,i'm looking now
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[shurcool]
I checked https://indieweb.org/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain but don't see any links to FAQ for that topic there
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bear
and this page has a lot of useful examples also https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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[shurcool]
sorry, where are the examples at https://indieauth.com/setup?
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bear
right at the top
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bear
it shows that you can do it with a simple <link /> in the header
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[shurcool]
> Note: If you don't want visible links on your home page, you can instead use <link> tags in your html header.
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[shurcool]
ah, see it now
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bear
remember that the rel=me for indieauth to work is orhagonal to your profile page
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[shurcool]
okay, so hidden links are acceptable
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bear
even inside of css
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[shurcool]
It felt nice when the profile page (back when it was at root) and indieauth coincided.
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[shurcool]
but I guess it's not a hard requirement
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bear
nope, there are as many ways to do it as their are indieweb folks I think :)
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[shurcool]
I'm still considering adding a footer that would have visible links. so it's either that, or going with invisible links.
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[shurcool]
has anyone come up with a different solution other than footer or hidden links?
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bear
yea, some folks like to add an h-card element on every page in some location
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bear
well, the semantics of h-card and rel-me offer variety but they are also structured -- so not a ton of variation
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[shurcool]
all right. thanks a lot ?
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bear
but again, the rel=me links just are pointers for indieauth to know which pages represent you for authentication
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bear
that's a lot different than how/why you would craft an h-card
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[shurcool]
I see, makes sense
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bear
it's just common enough for them to be blended
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[shurcool]
I guess I started out by conflating the two, so it felt a bit unnatural to separate them. but nothing wrong with that
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bear
*nods*
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bear
it's helpful to step back and follow the process *why* indieauth consumes rel=me links
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bear
it uses them as a list of items in *your* domain that are sources of links back to your domain
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bear
and that they are sources that are not your domain but that you would need control over to change
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bear
that's really all they are
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Zegnat
[shurcool], I just don’t use RelMeAuth, that’s my solution.
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bear
i'm going afk for a bit - but please do post any followup questions, I'll be back later or someone else will eventually help - August week-end days are often slow in the channel ;)
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Zegnat
You can implement the IndieAuth protocol on your own end, or use a finished package like https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth for Web sign-in, instead of rel="me" links
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Loqi
[Inklings-io] selfauth: self-hosted auth_endpoint using simple login mechanism
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bear
Zegnat - yea, I wasn't even going to start down the path of rel="authorization_endpoint"
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bear
but i'll pass the indieweb auth batton to you for a bit :)
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bear
goes afk
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Zegnat
RelMeAuth via indieauth.com isn’t much else than outsourcing your auth endpoint though. So linking your own endpoint is a solution if you do not want to link social media platforms on your homepage
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tantek
Zegnat and that's definitely #indiweb-dev talk :)
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Zegnat
[shurcool] asked here what people are doing to get around having rel=me links on their homepages, I use selfauth. Doesn’t sound like dev to me?
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tantek
yes, setting up selfauth is definitely dev - not something a non-dev user would be able to do
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Zegnat
is confused about when something becomes dev then
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Zegnat
Anything that involves uploading a file to a webserver = dev?
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[shurcool]
That's an interesting alternative, thanks for sharing Zegnat
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[shurcool]
If I understand correctly, I could implement that rel="authorization_endpoint" on my home page and that'd be sufficient to login to the wiki at https://indieweb.org, is that right?
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Zegnat
Any website that supports IndieAuth, or uses indieauth.com, to let people login will let you login with that. Including - of course - the wiki :D
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[shurcool]
and I wouldn't depend on indieauth.com for doing... auth stuff. I'm being vague because I don't know the exact terms without looking more into it now, and I'm just doing cursory discovery/research right now
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Zegnat
You are correct
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sknebel
some sites (like the wiki) still let indieauth.com handle all of that for them, but on your side nothing depends on it
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Zegnat
The wiki will still go to indieauth.com, because it has outsourced the checks. But something like https://telegraph.p3k.io/ (a webmention sender) will communicate straight with your own site
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Zegnat
(sniped by sknebel)
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tantek
Zegnat, "involves uploading a file to a webserver = dev" typically yes
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[shurcool]
right. just to confirm, I'm not looking to let people sign in to my site via indieauth, just to be able to use my site to login to other sites that support indieauth
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tantek
unless it has a simple UI like https://indieweb.org/Special:Upload
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Zegnat
Yes, this is just you using your site for login
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tantek
[shurcool]: that's correct, and again, that distinction is why a lot of this conversation is more developer-like
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tantek
Zegnat how do you upload a file to webserver?
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Zegnat
tantek, personally? SFTP. Though my mom uploads to the same server through the control panel our hosting provider gives us.
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[shurcool]
bummer, it looks like I can't pm other people here unless they're also in slack (I'm guessing)
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tantek
and even then they may never see it
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[shurcool]
I guess I'll use email ?
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Zegnat
Yeah, the Slack bridge doesn’t do PMs. Though I am not sure what it does when you try?
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Zegnat
Or doesn’t Slack allow you to send anything at all?
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[shurcool]
i think it only shows you actual slack users here
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[shurcool]
you don't show up in the list at all
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Zegnat
Makes sense
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[shurcool]
your messages are proxies by an `incoming-webhook` app
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[shurcool]
thanks for help/information again
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[miklb]
Zegnat can you post the topic for this channel too or I can fire up IRC
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Zegnat
Is the topic
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[miklb]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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sebsel
Here it would be nice if Loqi could bridge them :P
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ada[m]
tantek: haven't finished yet, but I think I'm on the right path now. Thanks :)
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tantek
great!
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I'm curious what, if anything, you all think that the IndieWeb as a community could do or do better to make things easier for Generation" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-13 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/im-curious-what-if-anything-you-all-think-that-the
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DanC_
I'm thinking about taking photos with my android device and syncing them but without sharing with google. Any experience here?
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DanC_
owncloud seems to have something in the neighborhood, maybe
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sknebel
DanC_: there is also an app called FolderSync, but I haven't tried it myself
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DanC_
how does it get access to photos? apps don't share files, if I understand right
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[kevinmarks]
Is the new Swarm iOS only? It looks the same to me on android
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sknebel
DanC_: at least my old-fashioned device has a folder with images that all apps with filesystem access can access?
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DanC_
I guess so...
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DanC_
maybe my concern is: I'm happy for google to back up most of my photos. I just want to keep some of them for myself
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sknebel
hm, not sure what a good workflow for that would look like
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DanC_
well, currently I have a couple ways of getting images on my phone: (a) the camera app, and (b) a thing that scans documents to google drive
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DanC_
I'm interested in something kinda like (b)
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sknebel
maybe you can install a second camera app and configure that with a different folder?
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KartikPrabhu
my camera app syncs with Dropbox. Dropbox app also has a scan option
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DanC_
yeah... so... I'm interested in a solution that doesn't involve sharing with Dropbox or google...
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DanC_
though... even stuff like https://oasis.sandstorm.io/ is ultimately backed by google cloud compute (or AWS? I think it's google). But at least in that case, google isn't using it to sell ads (I think/hope)
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DanC_
I guess Dropbox isn't motivated by ads/attention; they have plenty of customers spending $$ for storage
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sknebel
you possibly could install that in parallel, set it to a different folder and then have owncloud/nextcloud/... sync that folder
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sknebel
(not tested ofc)
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DanC_
gives it a try...
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DanC_
ooh... this could be it: "Pause after taking photo - If ticked, after taking a photo the display will pause, with options to share Share icon or delete Trash icon the photo." -- http://opencamera.org.uk/help.html