#indieweb 2017-08-16

2017-08-16 UTC
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Loqi [superfeedr] "10? Facebook notifications in 2+ weeks: 1? accepted 1? w 16 mutual 1? w 6 mutual 7? no mutual friends Of the 10 Facebook friend notifications since I'd last checked over two weeks ago, one was an acceptance from someone I’ve known for 10+ years, one friend request from someone I've also known for years yet had only 6 mutual connections, one request had 16 mutual friends but is someone I cannot recall meeting (nor did search engines find any web pages that mentioned both of us), and **seven** were friend requests from people I have never heard of and had zero mutual friends with. 70% of Facebook friend notifications were spam, or appeared to be enough for me to ignore them (slightly higher % if you just consider friend requests). Just one anecdotal data point over a short period of time, but still. I’m curious if there is an option to block friend requests from people who have zero connections with you. This also makes me think we’re on the right track in the IndieWeb with the Vouch protocol. https://indieweb.org/Vouch It also reminded me of when the 2004 Gmail beta required someone to invite you to Gmail, you could not just sign up out of the blue. Perhaps there was something to that “protocol” as well." on 2017-08-16 http://tantek.com/2017/227/t1/facebook-notifications-vouch
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tantek Thanks Loqi ?
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Loqi you're welcome, tantek
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tantek and that's enough FB notification processing for today
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tantek 92 other (globe) notifications pending, that can wait til tomorrow. sheesh it's just like email now
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@ChrisAldrich @dauwhe On first blush it looks like something superceded by microformats h-cards and other pieces within #indieweb community for identity. (twitter.com/_/status/897692874992693249)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@dauwhe On first blush it looks like something superceded by microformats h-cards and other pieces within #indieweb community for identity." by Chris Aldrich on 2017-08-16 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/dauwhe-on-first-blush-it-looks-like-something-superceded-by
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petermolnar https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/paabgg/i-bought-a-book-about-the-internet-from-1994-and-none-of-the-links-worked #notsolongweb
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petermolnar had any of the static gen people from here tried and succeeded in building an IPFS-friendly version of their site?
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petermolnar I belive a guide to that is a missing link
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petermolnar eg. which resources should be relative urls
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petermolnar which absolute
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petermolnar and how to convert to ipfs resource identifiers if it's ever needed
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petermolnar images seem to be particularly tricky
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petermolnar and this conversation might be -dev
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jeremycherfas G’day IndieWeb
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petermolnar https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/15/16151812/facebook-news-feed-redesign-blue-header-circle-profile-picture-bubbles-messages - what is this recent circular avatar fixation everywhere?
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[aarongustafson] tantek Requested!
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@scott_gruber @heydonworks When I attended an @indiewebcamp i think we used http://etherpad.org to keep notes for on and off site attendees. Maybe ok? (twitter.com/_/status/897824334017724416)
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[miklb] petermolnar recent? Seems round profile pics have been around awhile.
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petermolnar lately everyone seems to be favoring round
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petermolnar I don't know who started the trend but it annoys me
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@heydonworks @scott_gruber @indiewebcamp Not what I'm looking for at all. I need a forum. BUT I like the look of it! (twitter.com/_/status/897843734351622148)
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[markmhendrickso Anybody have thoughts about the new Blockstack fund effort? https://blockstack.org/funding
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[markmhendrickso I just got an email about it...I haven't done anything with Blockstack / chain but have been following it lightly since it's in the decentralized web space
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: did [markmhendrickso 's nick get truncated from slack?
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KartikPrabhu ^^
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aaronpk yeah freenode nick length limits
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aaronpk i hadn't heard of blockstack yet
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petermolnar yet another blockchain based distributed computing That Will Change The World®©™? How is this different to ethereum?
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tommorris blockstack? seems like more blockchain hype nonsense
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tommorris for every problem, there's someone hyping blockchains as the solution. that person is usually trying to sell you tokens and can be safely ignored.
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tommorris where tokens is a share in their particular brand of snake oil
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tommorris I trust this year's brand of blockchain snakeoil will fix all the things, just like namecoin fixed DNS and bitcoin fixed payments.
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aaronpk ok ok we don't need quite that much snark :)
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tommorris aww, I haven't been active in here for ages though. ;-)
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petermolnar aaronpk no, we probably don't, but I'm too getting tired of blockhain all the things! popping up everywhere; namecoind sounded great years ago, and it got nowhere
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petermolnar even if that would indeed be an important thing
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petermolnar to provide something alternative to the domain system
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tantek good morning #indieweb
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tantek checks all the logs
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schmarty ahoy indieweb! o/
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sknebel What is Beaker?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Beaker" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel Beaker is https://beakerbrowser.com/, a [[browser]] supporting the [[dat]] protocol, and notable as an example of making non-HTTP "distributed" protocols more user-friendly.
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Loqi ok
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tommorris "append-only feed", "decentralized datastore" - what I hear is "you make a site containing illegal material, my computer distributes it for you". what could go wrong?
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sknebel tommorris: which one are you talking about?
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tommorris Dat
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sknebel dat and IPFS are afaik like bittorrent in that nodes only store content they have requested or host
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sknebel (and I'm not even sure if they share by default, or only after user permission, would have to check that in detail)
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tantek # datprotocoltho
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tantek (someone had to say it)
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KartikPrabhu what is dat?
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Loqi Dat is a protocol for transferring files peer-to-peer https://indieweb.org/Dat
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KartikPrabhu what is dis?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dis" yet. Would you like to create it?_
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KartikPrabhu that should be a thing ^
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tantek dis is /this
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Loqi ok
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sketchess Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb.
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tantek if you found out something you reposted was deleted, what would you want to do with the repost on your own site?
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aaronpk depends on what it is
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aaronpk and why i reposted it
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aaronpk same with quote tweets
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aaronpk i've seen some on twitter where it's obvious the person's intent was to comment on the tweet regardless of whether the original author retracted the tweet
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tantek that's a quoted tweet
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tantek different from a retweet / repost
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tantek but yeah, as a response in general, I agree that comments / quotes may want to do something special
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tantek like maybe indicate that the original was deleted and when?
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aaronpk twitter shows "this content is no longer available" in a quote tweet when the original tweet was deleted. twitter just deletes your RT if the original is deleted.
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tantek good points aaronpk. we should document existing silo behavior as background research
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tantek wonders where to document this
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aaronpk maybe /delete?
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tantek that's a good place to start. I was wondering specifically how to respond to when you receive a webmention from a deleted
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sketchess What is a repost?
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indieweb.org/repost
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tantek aaronpk would you delete your repost or keep it if the original was deleted?
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tantek (I don't have a good answer, I don't have reposts right now)
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aaronpk it depends on what it is
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tantek would you indicate on your repost that the original had been deleted?
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk checks his recent reposts for examples
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tantek like by unlinking / greying the link to original, or strikethrough or ... ?
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sketchess What benefits is in there repeating stuff? In general.
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aaronpk interesting question
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aaronpk expands "Why"
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sketchess The concept sounds not logical to me. Hmmm.
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tantek sketchess - it's ok, lots of people don't repost / retweet anything. some people do. I think the practice got popularized by Tumblr "reblogging"
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aaronpk feel free to expand. i've captured some reasons I repost things https://indieweb.org/repost#Why
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sketchess It blows my mind that one thing might be repeated a 100 times or more. It has no value. *thought
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aaronpk havent you ever told someone "hey look at this i thought it was funny"?
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aaronpk I think it's an extension of that in-person behavior
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aaronpk of wanting to share things that were personally significant
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sketchess Hmmmm.... no I do not fit that picture.
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tantek sketchess: n.m. 100x, try *millions* https://indieweb.org/repost#The_Most_Reposted_Thing
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[kevinmarks] it's also a commonplace book thing, gathering quotations
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sketchess looks
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aaronpk TIL that samsung paid a lot of money to have their phone be the one used to take that
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[kevinmarks] this post has more likes: https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/896523232098078720
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@BarackObama "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHEXH7RV0AAUwKj.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/896523232098078720)
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sketchess I think there is a difference between a quote and a whole re -blog -post. I would prefer the quote, if I am up to make a point.
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aaronpk yep it's definitely a personal preference thing
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tantek what is a quote
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Loqi A quotation is a type of response post that is primarily a subset of the contents of another post, and often has a citation of that other post https://indieweb.org/quote
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tantek ^^^ sketchess yes they are different
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sketchess I like to learn from great thinkers and heads, but I am not a parrot. :D Thihihihi.
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sketchess Do you archive aaronpk?
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aaronpk my website is an archive
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tantek what is an archive?
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Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indieweb.org/archive
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sketchess Why do you collect? Has it a purpose?
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aaronpk that's a tough question, i'm not sure i have a short answer.
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[miklb] sketchess I use mine for personal reference and public diary of sorts.
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sketchess I collect knowledge. I love the idea of building a place of knowledge. :) I am some kind of scientiftic librarian.
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sketchess Life is full of wonders.
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tantek [kevinmarks]: noted: https://indieweb.org/like#The_Most_Liked_Thing
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tantek unless there's anything with more than 3.5 million likes
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aaronpk this morning NPR reported that that was the most liked tweet
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aaronpk citation added http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/16/543882516/obama-s-tweet-after-charlottesville-is-the-most-liked-tweet-ever
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[miklb] it was the most liked 1 million ago
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aaronpk oh and that was reported by twitter
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sketchess Hah now I saw / found it.... wiki pages are really very heavy little things.
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tantek depends on the page, and your default font-weight
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sketchess xD a font-weight does not let words disappear, thihihihi
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tantek sketchess: fonts can be very heavy, traditionally made primarily of lead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal
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sketchess o.o
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tantek I think the Ellen tweet is still the most responded to - with over 6 million total likes + retweets + replies
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tantek hey does anyone have a candidate for the most webmentioned post?
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tantek Kevinmarks could have had one with his how to talk headphones tweet if he'd POSSEd it :P
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tantek (via Bridgy, but still)
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi rofl
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sketchess Me not for sure. Hahahaha.
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tantek anyone have any posts that have received 100+ webmentions?
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aaronpk i wonder if i have an easy way to check that
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tantek don't some blogs have "most active post" or something sidebars?
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tantek posts with the most comments
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aaronpk i do
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tantek oh?
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aaronpk cause i cache everything in a relational database
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aaronpk easy query
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tantek kevinmarks's tweet FYI: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/770523490130677762
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@kevinmarks How to talk to a woman wearing headphones: Be a Kardashev Type II civilisation in HD164595 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrFzByYVIAEzY2-.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/770523490130677762)
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aaronpk here is my most responded to post: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/02/9/midi-poop-emoji
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Enjoy a pile of poop emoji made out of music notes. ? Inspired by @andrewismusic https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/02/9/photo.jpg
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aaronpk 112 likes 70 reposts
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tantek whoa 100+
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tantek oh that makes me wonder
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aaronpk bridgy stoppede finding them tho cause it has 131 likes on twitter
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tantek wow that facepile incremental loading
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sketchess o.O Loqi is in a strange mood today
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tantek what is mood?
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Loqi mood is sometimes expressed explicitly in or about a post, by the post author https://indieweb.org/mood
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sketchess o.o? that does not fit
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sketchess watching
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ben_thatmustbeme what is love?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I https://indieweb.org/love
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tantek aaronpk, I might have that beat if/when I display this: http://stream.thatmustbe.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmention.io%2Fapi%2Fcount%3Ftarget%3Dhttp://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead&op=jf2-mf2&ashtml=1&style=
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aaronpk nice
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tantek though the tweet has many more (about 2x) https://twitter.com/t/status/575434935554584576
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@t js;dr = JavaScript required; Didn’t Read. Pages that are empty without JS: dead to history (archive-org), ... http://tantek.com/t4a41 (twitter.com/_/status/575434935554584576)
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tantek and now I have a harder problem since I have to figure out how to make that page still display when I get likes displaying
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tantek hey snarfed you're all about the stats
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tantek do you have any on the most webmentioned thing?
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tantek permalink post that is - not home page (? @t false mentions)
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snarfed tantek: not offhand but we could try
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snarfed i can query bridgy and indiemap, aaronpk and voxpelli could query wm.io and wm.herokuapp
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snarfed (my guess is the top ones will have a few hundred ish)
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voxpelli On my service it's probably one of KevinMarks posts, but not sure which
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GWG afternoon
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snarfed https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions has 173
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tantek snarfed, yeah highest examples we have so far are https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/02/9/midi-poop-emoji (actually displays them all) and https://webmention.io/api/count?target=http://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead (not displayed on post yet)
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Loqi [Drew McLellan] Implementing Webmentions
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Enjoy a pile of poop emoji made out of music notes. ? Inspired by @andrewismusic https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/02/9/photo.jpg
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snarfed adactio's are often big too
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tantek could make for an interesting "most popular indieweb posts" summary list
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tantek (of the week, month, year, ever)
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aaronpk one of tommorris' posts has a ton but they aren't displayed
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tantek of the week could be included in this-week
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tommorris aaronpk: I really need to build my new site. :)
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aaronpk tantek: i'm struggling to think of how to do that in a way that isn't immediately spammable
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aaronpk if you use the self-reported number then anyone can claim to have thousands of likes to get theirs listed higher
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snarfed indiemap would be great for this, except comment markup is inconsistent
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tantek aaronpk, think of it as a honeypot for that then
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tantek or rather, we would assume a "bug" in someone's code if it misreported such a claim of thousands
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voxpelli http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html has 258, by far the post with most mentions at my service
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] How did Twitter become the hate speech wing of the free speech party?
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tantek voxpelli: js;dr has 312 according to webmention.io
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voxpelli aaaand that post above shows that I badly need to persist the avatars of old mentions :/
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j4y_funabashi lo
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tantek voxpelli I see duplicates in the likes facepile on that kevinmarks post!
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tantek I'm in there twice and benwerd too
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voxpelli when it comes to people mentions the record is +1400 mentions (I can't believe I'm actually loading +1400 mentions whenever KevinMarks frontpage load, it works surprisingly well for that amount)
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voxpelli tantek: I think that's because of how Bridgy sends likes, it upstreams them somehow that I'm not totally sure about
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tantek voxpelli - you have different permalinks for each of those?
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tantek because the icons themselves link to the same place for each duplicate
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tantek oh boy I just tried https://webmention.io/api/count?target=http://tantek.com/ and it is not completing
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tantek just completed
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tantek "count": 101737
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tantek cries at the design problem
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GWG Having too many likes is a problem I wouldn't mind having
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snarfed motivates facepiles!
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snarfed can't wait
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aaronpk oh dear, sounds like i have some optimization to do on webmention.io
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tantek snarfed, seriously? facepile of 99995?
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snarfed tantek: no, GWG's (
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snarfed er, gwg's "too many likes," e.g. the previous examples
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snarfed tantek: silos have lots of good UI examples for handling arbitrarily many responses, so i'm guessing your design problem is inadvertent username mentions?
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aaronpk i don't think silos show a count of the equivalent of home page webmentions
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tantek snarfed, I'm not sure about "good" there - see previous "most liked ..." permalinks on Twitter, not clear that the displays are usefully showing facepiles or comments
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GWG Snarfed, I started storing syndication data to someday dedupe POSSE webmentions hoping it would be a problem someday
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snarfed eh i'm sure they could be better. but they at least basically work, and don't totally break on 100k+, like most indieweb implementations would
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snarfed GWG: cool!
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tantek snarfed, yes, "not breaking" is a good start :)
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tantek snarfed, however, you can still presumably find out which URLs that Bridgy has sent the most webmentions to
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tantek and in particular, when did Bridgy send the 100,000th webmention to tantek.com
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tantek (I'm assuming 99.999% of webmentions to tantek.com are via Bridgy backfeed of @t mentions)
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voxpelli tantek: can't figure out the source of the different likes with my evening Postgres skills, sorry :/
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snarfed tantek: bridgy's datastore isn't designed for OLAP/data warehouse type queries like that, so it'd take a bit of work. (either load it into a data warehouse or write a small mapreduce)
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snarfed i'd actually much rather do it in indiemap, but that'd also be a small project, determining how widely adopted comment markup is (anecdotally not much, from what i've seen :( )
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snarfed s/small//
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tantek ah ok. any chance of a weekly script to get most webmentioned post permalinks for that week?
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snarfed maybe eventually! not a high priority
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snarfed happy to help contributors though, w/either indiemap or bridgy!
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tantek worth filing a github issue feature request? on bridgy or indiemap?
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snarfed if you want, sure! or even try indiemap yourself if you know jsonpath (i mostly don't)
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tantek it would be a rough equivalent of "upvotes" on an article, distributed, without depending on indienews submission
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tantek raw vs curated
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voxpelli realizes that he is actually rendering +1400 text mentions in a row on the front page of KevinMarks page :O
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aaronpk doing that in bridgy means that popular tweets will show up regardless of whether they're relevant to the indieweb
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tantek popular *POSSE* tweets
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aaronpk yes, which still may have nothing to do with indieweb
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tantek it will be a good day when the # of indieweb-indieweb responses on a post > the # of silo-indieweb responses
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aaronpk e.g. my midi poo tweet
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tantek aaronpk: right, more like front page of reddit, but for indieweb posts
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tantek not posts "about" indieweb per se, just posts *on* the indieweb
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Why we built Known" by Ben Werdmuller on 2015-12-08 http://stream.withknown.com/2015/why-we-built-known
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Loqi [superfeedr] "A short note about web standards from your friends at Known" by Ben Werdmuller on 2015-10-13 http://stream.withknown.com/2015/a-short-note-about-web-standards-from-your-friends-at
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Self-hosted Known 0.8.5 has left the building - with better indieweb, micropub and AMP support." by Ben Werdmuller on 2015-10-13 http://stream.withknown.com/2015/self-hosted-known-085-has-left-the-building---with-better
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[kevinmarks] I think the duplicate likes are from brid.gy interpreting more than one of my tweets about that page as being the original POSSE version
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[kevinmarks] As I have linkslapped it a few times
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tantek ah
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[kevinmarks] I was trying Google lighthouse on my homepage voxpelli
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tantek anyone else here near NYC or up for going to IWC NYC?
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tantek we're converging rapidly on possible dates and it looks like we're down to 1-2 clear candidates - so add yourself to the "Interested" list here and +1/0/-1 for the specific dates for yourself! https://indieweb.org/Planning#NYC
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[kevinmarks] I wonder if we can get old avatar images from Archive.org
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tantek [kevinmarks]: sounds like an opportunity for a service
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tantek kevinmarks I need that just for attempting to rebuild the facepile of everyone who has been to an indiewebcamp in a particular year
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tantek what is year in review?
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Loqi Year in Review is a feature on some silos (like Facebook) as well as being a special kind of article on some indieweb sites that summarizes important aspects of the past year https://indieweb.org/Year_in_Review
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tantek [kevinmarks]: here's an example: https://indieweb.org/2014-review#This_Is_A_Movement
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tantek 2015-review << Year in Review
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Year in Review]]" to the "See Also" section of /2015-review
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tantek Year_in_Review << 2016-review
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Loqi ok, I added "[[2016-review]]" to the "See Also" section of /Year_in_Review
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tantek Year_in_Review << 2015-review
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Loqi ok, I added "[[2015-review]]" to the "See Also" section of /Year_in_Review
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tantek Year_in_Review << 2014-review
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Loqi ok, I added "[[2014-review]]" to the "See Also" section of /Year_in_Review
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snarfed re avatar archive: https://github.com/aaronpk/ca3db-ruby
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Loqi [aaronpk] ca3db-ruby: Content-Addressable Avatar Archive
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[kevinmarks] looks like archive.org doesn't crawl twitter much
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[kevinmarks] nice, aaronpk
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aaronpk Yeah I doubt I'll be able to recover old ones but at least I'm not losing new avatars
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snarfed aaronpk: ca3db isn't a publicly usable service, is it?
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aaronpk i think it might be but you have to provide your own AWS API keys to store in your own AWS account
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aaronpk oh wait no there's also an API key for the request to ca3db
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aaronpk nevermind i am wrong again. the only things needed in the request are AWS credentials
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aaronpk so yes it's publicly usable, B-Y-O-Amazon
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@codepo8 @MaartenBicknese Indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/897922094272569350)
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snarfed aaronpk: cool! consider adding the url somewhere, i haven't found it :P
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aaronpk snarfed: i'll have to think through whether i actually want to officially offer it publicly :)
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aaronpk i just found a way to get screenshots of old versions of twitter and facebook
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tantek whoa really?
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aaronpk From books! http://i.imgur.com/am5lV11.jpg
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tantek when they were not js;dr?
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tantek hah
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aaronpk Like this one from 2009!
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aaronpk "The Twitter Book" by tim o'reilly
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sknebel imagines a "social media sites through history" coffee table book
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tantek what is account?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "account" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is identity
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Loqi A personal domain is a domain name that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet https://indieweb.org/identity
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aaronpk also did you know there is this place you can go where you can just walk out with a stack of books without paying anything?
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tantek but they require you create an account IIRC
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk and you have to bring them back
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aaronpk i'm tempted to tweetstorm a reading of this book
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tantek account is a feature of [[silo]]s, other organizations, and operating systems that use it to identify users inside their systems.
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Loqi ok
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tantek account << identity
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Loqi ok, I added "[[personal-domain]]" to the "See Also" section of /account
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tantek identity << account
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Loqi ok, I added "[[account]]" to the "See Also" section of /personal-domain
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tantek feel free to update that screenshot aaronpk https://indieweb.org/account#Twitter
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tantek (instead of a direct imgur link)
jmelesky joined the channel
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aaronpk alreaedy did :)
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tantek lol just saw
fzylogic, gigitux and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks] I bet Twitter for Dummies would be good for that too
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[kevinmarks] also Chris Messina's Flickr account
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[kevinmarks] https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=25419820%40N00&view_all=1&text=twitter
davidmead and fzylogic joined the channel
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tantek Twitter << [https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=25419820%40N00&view_all=1&text=twitter Screenshots of Twitter web site and app UIs posted to Flickr]
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=25419820%40N00&view_all=1&text=twitter Screenshots of Twitter web site and app UIs posted to Flickr]" to the "See Also" section of /Twitter
fzylogic, j12t, KartikPrabhu and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks] hm https://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/472093047
wolftune joined the channel
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[kevinmarks] like << https://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/4093265739
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/4093265739" to the "See Also" section of /like
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tantek Twitter has had block for over 10 years?
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aaronpk Wow that was insightful
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[kevinmarks] crystal is pretty smart