#indieweb 2017-08-19

2017-08-19 UTC
eli_oat, strugee and [miklb] joined the channel
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[miklb] what is a linkblog
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indieweb.org/linkblog
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[miklb] thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome, [miklb]
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mblaney thanks for the feedback cweiske, I've fixed unicyclic.com too.
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@thingles Would be cool if there was a Homebrew Website Club in Minneapolis… ? https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/898722703800008704)
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@samwilson The #indieweb is all about hosting things yourself, but actually I find doing so to be enormously stressful. Sysadmin-ing is a profession. (twitter.com/_/status/898744842548781058)
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@alli_burnie @nlagovau Today's lesson: always publish on platforms that *you own* then distribute elsewhere. Follow IndieWeb pri… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/898751642455101441 (twitter.com/_/status/898751642455101441)
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@aaronpk @samwilson The #indieweb is all about owning your identity and being in control. You don't have to self-host to do that! (twitter.com/_/status/898752298800734208)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Turning back the clock" by Colin Walker on 2017-08-19 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/08/19/turning-back-the-clock/
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sl007 Hi people. When I would OpenSource a bot toolkit - where every message begins with [B] or [bot] - could I demand this per license ? #ethics
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sketchess Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb.
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[colinwalker] Morning
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Loqi rise and shine!
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sketchess Nice blog post, colinwalker.
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sketchess !tell schmarty the last podcast was great (5-11). I enjoyed the balance you found of voice and tempo. Be happy to hear the next one. The little interviwe included is my every weeks highlight. :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sketchess Thank you Loqi.
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[colinwalker] Thanks sketchess
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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Loqi Zegnat: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 53 minutes ago: take a look at https://raretrack.uk/2017/indieweb-for-end-users---some-thoughts and especially note the concern about how even the #indieweb channel seems too technical (per that long running chat we have about what is too technical or should go in -dev etc.) "Whilst I'm a geek I generally feel a fish out of water by the more techical content…" etc.
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sketchess What kind of blogger are you, colinwalker? ..... Welcome Zegnat. :)
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Zegnat sl007 you could demand that of a bot, yes. Much like how you can specify if and where and how people have to credit you. Whether it would still be considered open-source is a secondary question ?
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sl007 ok, fully agreed. Personally I would consider it open-source. My feeling is that it should be a convention everywhere to mark bot messages. Photojournalists use [M] to mark manipulated photos and for me it is an ethical question also to mark "manipulated" texts as with [B] (or should it also be [M] ?) …
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Zegnat I agree that it is good to make bots and human users easily distinguishable.
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sketchess agrees too
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sketchess lunch brake
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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Zegnat Morning jeremycherfas
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jeremycherfas Hi zegnat
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jeremycherfas Just tidying up something suggested by chrisaldrich, and then I will do some documentation
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Zegnat Exciting!
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[colinwalker] @sketchess What do you mean? What type of blogger?
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sketchess catching up on logs
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sketchess !tell colinwalker I am just a little curious about what your favorit topis might are you like the most about to blog. That's all.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sketchess Thanks again Loqi.
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Loqi you're welcome
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sketchess Good morning jeremycherfas. :) Putting new stuff on your site too?
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jeremycherfas Just a quick update sketchess, and documentation on wiki. Maybe something new this afternoon, or maybe continue bringing in old posts to my current setup.
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sketchess I still like to read your stuff. It has a nice flow. :)
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jeremycherfas Thank you
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jeremycherfas What is a bearer token
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bearer token" yet. Would you like to create it?
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jeremycherfas No thanks Loqi
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sketchess Am I wrong or did you change something of your design?
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Zegnat A bearer token is a type of token that identifies its “bearer”, the most common authentication type in [[OAuth]].
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat Someone with more OAuth skills can tidy up that description.
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jeremycherfas Not huge, but I added a new thing in the sidebar. Is that what you mean?
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Zegnat This wednesday the virtual Homebrew Website Club will reach regular meeting status! https://licit.li/59981d7097e88 ?
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sketchess I just noticed that something changed but couldn't name it. I am sensitive to looks in general.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: Thanks. I am starting to try and wrap my head around the idea of posting from RSS to Known.
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sketchess I will make it for sure to HWC, my log deserved holydays are starting.
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sketchess log = long
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sketchess I will not promise to finish in time what I currently coding. But I will put what I have definitive online.
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sketchess So I will be ready for a little demo session.
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jeremycherfas I look forward to seeing that sketchess
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sketchess Do not expect something huge Jemery. ;) It still is in pre-alpha state. But I am glad that I found my way of developing.
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sketchess Does one of you have a little moment to answer something about favicons in the dev?
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Zegnat Sure, just write in dev :)
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sketchess jumping
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[colinwalker] @sketchess I tend to write about social, web, a bit of psychology - all sorts really.
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Loqi [colinwalker]: sketchess left you a message 40 minutes ago: I am just a little curious about what your favorit topis might are you like the most about to blog. That's all.
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sketchess Ah. Thanks.
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[colinwalker] Oh, and I write _about_ writing ? very meta
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sketchess What do you mean [colinwalker]?
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sketchess It somehow reads strange. :D
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sketchess Oh. How sad, no safari anymore for windons. No testing either then. :/
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jeremycherfas Meta is used to indicate that something is about the thing, not the thing itself. So metadata is (are) data about data. And then people use it to indicate that they are doing a thing about the thing. So, writing about writing is considered meta.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat (and others) can you help me to see if I have understood something about micropub. I think I had a eureka moment.
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jeremycherfas Before, I was thinking that if I wanted to automate posting to Known, I would have to somehow send a POST to Quill or Micropublish or similar. But they would then just be sending it to the micropub endpoint at Known. So I could cut out the middleman, as it were, and send the PST directly to my endpoint myself. Is that correct?
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Zegnat Yes
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jeremycherfas That’s kind of a breakthrough for me :) I think I may be able to manage that from Zapier or IFTTT
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, you got that right. Your Micropub endpoint will accept posts no matter where they come from as long as the POST follows the right structure and has a bearer token that lets you actually create posts. I’d be happy to discuss further in -dev :)
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jeremycherfas I’m not ready for that yet! But may well have questions on Wednesday.
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Zegnat Lets hope there are some more Micropub implementers there on Wednesday then :) Maybe prod sebsel a bit
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jeremycherfas I hope I will have time to try some experiments.
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sketchess What is micropub?
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Recommendation) that is used to create, update, and delete posts on one's own domain using third-party clients, and supersedes both MetaWeblog and AtomPub https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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sketchess Ah yes. That it was. Sigh, so many words which trigger me.
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sketchess I would not mind to see your attemps jeramycherfas. I can't even make a sense out of its meaning yet.
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sketchess Would be nice to have a demo HWC this time. I can have a look into many new things. *thought
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jeremycherfas Sketchess I am not even at the point of a demo yet. Just thinking about the tools I have available and the processes.
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sketchess I would not mind to see your thoughts emerge too. ;)
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sketchess I do not expect finished demos which just get a show off. That would be boring. Thihihihihi.
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sketchess This is what my index content currently reads: "This is a test page. It should show a grey background color." But it is enough to play around with it and get crazy. xD
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jeremycherfas OK. Right now, I am trying to make my understanding of APIs https://zapier.com/learn/apis/chapter-1-introduction-to-apis/
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sketchess Cool. That's how the wiki should explain things. I would be a very happy person.
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sketchess Is bookmarked and put into my archive.
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sketchess Thanks Jeramy.
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raretrack That's a really good link, Jeremy. I've just made a pizza in Chapter 2 - makes it simple to understand the basic concepts. Bookmarked too!
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sketchess a = e
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Zegnat “made a pizza” <3
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jeremycherfas The thing is, I’ve been hanging around this sort of thing for a long time, but never actually made the effort to consolidate the little bits and pieces I know. Because I didn’t need to. Now I do.
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raretrack For completeness it was ham and pineapple via POST, with anchovies then added via PUT :)
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sketchess The phrase "make your HTML your API" makes more sente to me now.
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jeremycherfas BTW, raretrack did you get a webmention from my Known?
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jeremycherfas Oh yuck. You can’t do that to me, in Rome.
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sketchess What? o.o
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Zegnat Pineapple on the pizza? Really? I take the Icelandic stand on that and feel like it should be outlawed ;) raretrack
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Zegnat BTW, raretrack, https://raretrack.uk/2017/indieweb-for-end-users---some-thoughts/annotations/29c04c4f29bc21b47b1f5316408aefce did not notify me that you responded. Not sure if that was intentional.
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Loqi [Rob Fairhead] Thanks for the reply Martin. Sounds like a plan, so if I'm not at work or on my hols I'd be happy to virtually come along! ...
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raretrack jeremycherfas: er no, I saw the post on your site but it didn't show up as a webmention at my end
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jeremycherfas See now, that’s the thing I cannot understand. Does WithkKnown send a webmention or does it not? And the answer is a bloody annoying “It depends”.
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sketchess still reading the api 'school'
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jeremycherfas moving to chapter 3
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raretrack Sorry Zegnat I love pineapple on pizza, contentious I know! I saw that reply hadn't shown up as a reply at your end, wasn't intentional and has baffled me what I did wrong!
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jeremycherfas So you’ve got the same sort of thing Raretrack.
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raretrack yup
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sketchess I could kiss that site. It owns its place in my school bookmarks like e.g. w3school.
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jeremycherfas I’m going to try via Telegraph.
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jeremycherfas Sent again via Telegraph
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jeremycherfas Says it was accepted. No status URL returned.
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raretrack appeared on my page now https://raretrack.uk/2017/indieweb-for-end-users---some-thoughts
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Loqi [Rob Fairhead] Indieweb for end-users - some thoughts 3 min read I've been mulling over this post by this post by Jeremy Cherfas , my reply and then Chris Aldrich's response asking for vi...
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jeremycherfas See; WithKnown **IS** flaky.
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raretrack what is Telegraph?
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Loqi Telegraph is an open source API and service for sending webmentions, part of the p3k suite https://indieweb.org/Telegraph
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Zegnat That surprises me jeremycherfas. Known clearly marked up your reaction as a reply, I see no reason for it not sending a webmention for it :o
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jeremycherfas EXACTLY!
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jeremycherfas And I have no way (that I understand) of finding out why it did not send it.
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Zegnat raretrack, your reply to me isn’t marked up as a reply the way I would expect it to, and doesn’t link to my original reply. So it would have been hard to send a webmention. Why Known has several types of reply posts, I am not sure… Someone else might know.
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raretrack yeha
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sketchess Sometimes machines are very picky. And sometimes they are very unforgiving.
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jeremycherfas And the immediately following post, which was also a reply to a post on a WithKnown site (Chris Aldrich’s) seems to have been received perfectly well, automatically.
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raretrack woops, i meant yeah i think that one is PEBKAC - I should have used my Known bookmarklet to reply from your page
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sketchess Wish you luck.
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jeremycherfas OK, here we go. Ch 4: Authentication
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sketchess We see us later. I go hunting mushrooms. ;D
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jeremycherfas Have you had rain?
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sketchess jep
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jeremycherfas Lucky you. Good luck.
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sketchess squeezing thumbs for you too Jeremy
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raretrack I was just thinking JSON looks a bit like XML, then scrolled down Chapter 3 a bit more :)
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jeremycherfas Heh
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jeremycherfas I want to see that actual POSTS that the examples are sending
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jeremycherfas Oooh. OAuth
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jeremycherfas What is OAuth
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Loqi OAuth is an authorization protocol created to replace the need for client applications of a service (e.g. a silo) to ask for your username and password to the service in order to access the service on your behalf https://indieweb.org/oauth
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jeremycherfas OAuth << https://zapier.com/learn/apis/chapter-5-authentication-part-2/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://zapier.com/learn/apis/chapter-5-authentication-part-2/" to the "See Also" section of /OAuth
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sebsel Morning IndieWeb :)
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Loqi sebsel: sl007 left you a message 16 hours, 27 minutes ago: any sticker news ? in dinslaken again.
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sebsel I saw aaronpk made an attempt to send them to sl007 in the -meta channel... I didn't really do anything sticker related yet :(
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Zegnat Hiya sebsel! :)
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jeremycherfas Hello sebsel
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sebsel Hi :) I think I'm back with the logs now.
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sebsel Zegnat do you have a list of topics for the next Virtual HWC?
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sebsel Seems like Micropub is a nice one. I need / want to prepare some presentation or demo for that too for Dortmund.
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Zegnat No. Feel free to contribute some. Either for everyone to discuss (https://indieweb.org/next-hwc#Topics) or specifically to ours
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sebsel Oh, there is a topics section for ALL hwcs?
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sebsel It was just because jeremy and you talked about it earlier.
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jeremycherfas It would be good to be able to talk about micropub if there is an opportunity.
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raretrack what is micropub?
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Recommendation) that is used to create, update, and delete posts on one's own domain using third-party clients, and supersedes both MetaWeblog and AtomPub https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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sebsel Let us hope then. We'll see how it turns out
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jeremycherfas Any ideas how to debug the problem raretrack and I have both had, where WithKnown sometimes sends out a webmention and sometimes doesn’t?
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jeremycherfas Well, I have to say, taking the time to sit down and read the Zapier introduction to APIs was a really good use of my time. Pulled a lot of things together, and made it seem a lot less intimidating.
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sebsel Time spend by learning about new topics is seldom wasted :)
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, maybe ask in #knownchat if there is some sort of webmention-sending-log?
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sebsel Also, bugs that happen sometimes are hard to debug. Try to have a log
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jeremycherfas Right.
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Zegnat growls at his design skills and goes to make tea
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aaronpk anyone remember when medium first started doing the stupid popup dialog thing? https://indieweb.org/Medium#Nagware
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petermolnar it's relatively recent
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waynr i've never read 14 medium posts in a month
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waynr and those i do read tend to be spread across a number of browser profiles
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waynr "Hubzilla is free and open source software protecting your rights with an MIT license."
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waynr i don't understand how MIT license protect's my rights
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waynr s/'s/s/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Adding Micropub to your IRC bot" https://seblog.nl/2017/08/19/6/micropub-irc-bot
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jeremycherfas I’m done for the day. See ya’all tomorrow
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/paulg/status/898921921756225536
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@paulg @matasar @HelloCivil You should try hosting an instance yourselves. Treat it as an experiment, and maybe it will become the tail that wags the dog, like Paypal. (twitter.com/_/status/898921921756225536)
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@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for Aug 12th - 18th, 2017. https://martymcgui.re/2017/08/19/140447/ (twitter.com/_/status/898969380419244032)
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schmarty thanks, Loqi
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Loqi schmarty: sketchess left you a message 9 hours, 49 minutes ago: the last podcast was great (5-11). I enjoyed the balance you found of voice and tempo. Be happy to hear the next one. The little interviwe included is my every weeks highlight. :)
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Loqi you're welcome
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schmarty ah, thanks, sketchess! :}
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • August 12th - 18th, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/425095 (twitter.com/_/status/898972390167916550)
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@no_identd @davewiner What might you think of https://indieweb.org/IndieMark https://aaronjorbin.github.io/indiemark-score/ ? (twitter.com/_/status/898973013294579712)
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sketchess catching up on logs
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[kevinmarks] gillmor gang time
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sketchess Yay schmarty's next podcast is up..... happy happy happy... *runs to listen
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schmarty !tell tantek: i gave a shot at a "New Community Members" segment for this week's audio newsletter. http://mmg.re/4pxJ4n
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • August 12th - 18th, 2017
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schmarty yay! thanks for listening, sketchess!
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Loqi :D
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sketchess You making me smile every time schmarty.
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sketchess Ah, you run a js too. Interesting. Just had a look into your source code, wanting to know how you set up your podcasts.
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@HackerSpaceTech RT adafruit "RT schmarty: Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition … https://martymcgui.re/2017/08/19/140447/" (twitter.com/_/status/898979408022716416)
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sknebel ^^^ is that intentional attribution or some old code trying to use text commands for twitter?
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sketchess Yeah on the chat page it is almost invisible. Odd.
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[kevinmarks] if you use the legacy api I think you get a RT from a modern retweet
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sketchess schmarty are you doing other voice stuff too?
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sketchess hungry for more
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schmarty sketchess: i also co-host an improvised comedy podcast, but it is a very different sound. :} wehavetoask.com
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sketchess Uuuuuh. Let me have a listen.
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sketchess xD Your natural voice is as beautiful as always. Thihihi. But I must say I have a crush on your deep Indieweb voice, schmarty. ;)
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Zegnat sketchess, this was me when I heard jeremycherfas: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-05-20/1495283561077000
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Loqi [Zegnat] Whos is the lovely English accent asking the clever questions at #buildingblocks?
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Zegnat Voices are fun
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@aaronpk @rretsiem Great idea! There are some examples here: http://indieweb.org/mentions (twitter.com/_/status/898997941393694720)
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sketchess Yeah Zegnat. I hope I will get Pia right for HWC. Tomorrow empty house, so best time to give it a shot.
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petermolnar https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/6uijgu/at_around_1115_eastern_time_taylor_swifts_tumblr/ - silo quits?
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snarfed doubtful
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Chris Aldrich is way too kind, but it is the kind of kindness I need. A couple of quick responses: I will indeed tweak the regex" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-08-18 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/chris-aldrich-is-way-too-kind-but-it-is-the
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sketchess -.- Sigh. Is it so difficult to pick the right size you little machine?^^
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sketchess Sweet dreams and a good morning Indieweb.
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tantek good day #indieweb
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Loqi tantek: schmarty left you a message 3 hours, 19 minutes ago: i gave a shot at a "New Community Members" segment for this week's audio newsletter. http://mmg.re/4pxJ4n
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tantek great! will give it a listen :0
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tantek :)
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tantek chrisaldrich++ great job helping out! http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/chris-aldrich-is-way-too-kind-but-it-is-the
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Loqi chrisaldrich has 40 karma in this channel (52 overall)
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] Chris Aldrich is way too kind, but it is the kind of kindness I need. A couple of quick responses: I will indeed tweak the regex as you suggest. That behaviour by reading.am does rather spoil using it as a repository for links I want to go back to...
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tantek w3school-- just no
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Loqi w3school has -1 karma
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tantek w3schools-- same same
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Loqi w3schools has -2 karma
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tantek Zegnat++ for driving and evolving vHWC - all great ideas: https://licit.li/59981f1094914
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Loqi zegnat has 74 karma in this channel (127 overall)
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Zegnat tantek, I have also invited raretrack to come and discuss his post :) https://licit.li/59982039b97e6 hopefully he will make it
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Zegnat btw, tantek, did you get notified of that post through the homepage webmention I sent? I wasn’t sure you were getting those.
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tantek Zegnat, well, webmention.io is "getting those" but as you might imagine, it's going to be somework for me to sift homepage webmention signal from the 110k+ webmentions it has received.
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tantek yeah! I saw raretrack in the logs earlier - well done!
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Zegnat Aah, is it also getting all the Twitter @t mentions?
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tantek yup
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Zegnat Oof
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tantek did you see snarfed's CSV?
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tantek of the top URLs Bridgy has sent webmentions for?
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Zegnat Only in passing
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Zegnat Didn’t look at the actual CSV
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tantek in the logs past day or two. open the CSV in a text editor. top spot. ?
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Zegnat Easy top spot indeed!
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Zegnat And after removing every `@t-mobile` from it, how many are left? ?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "19/08/2017, 23:41" by Colin Walker on 2017-08-19 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/08/19/19082017-2341/
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tantek Zegnat - so many left.
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tantek so many that I've considered doing an art project about it. and even trying to do 24hours of "tsplaining" politely replying to people deliberately mis-using @t explaining with "@-name, actually, @t doesn't mean 'at' (or t-mobile) etc."
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