#indieweb 2017-09-12

2017-09-12 UTC
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@kevinmarks https://www.wired.com/story/decentralized-social-networks-sound-great-too-bad-theyll-never-work/ centralised social networks sound great, @ethanz, too bad they die and delete your data https://indieweb.org/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/907406748683612161)
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tantek lol - I suppose that's about the right level of snark for a tweet reply
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aaronpk Oh good twitter search is still working *whew*
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tantek kevinmarks, here's the tweet to reply to as well if you want to thread: https://twitter.com/WIRED/status/906276009154052096
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@WIRED "There is no straightforward technical solution to the problem of platform monopolies." http://wrd.cm/2gOrLKs (twitter.com/_/status/906276009154052096)
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/eevee/status/907409403258691586
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@eevee @kevinmarks cool how this internet website is reachable despite being its own thing independent of all the others (twitter.com/_/status/907409403258691586)
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@acegiak @briecode People involved with #indieweb stuff are kind of working some of that stuff out slowly? (twitter.com/_/status/907501466889228288)
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Ruxton I have some edits to clean them up sometime this week that ill contribute, and see what you think of those
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Ruxton doh
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Ruxton stupid hit up and enter without paying attention
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@acegiak @gritfish @briecode Isn't it currently running on seed funding? Gosh I'm so sceptical, aren't I? I just want to be in the indieweb future already. (twitter.com/_/status/907502755891232768)
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@gritfish @acegiak @briecode indieweb seems like... IFTTT and RSS feed stuff? Am I understanding this? (twitter.com/_/status/907505048023744512)
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[pfefferle] good morning
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Loqi good morning
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@sl007 @acegiak @briecode ? why slowly - most is already W3C recommendation "micropub, websub, webmention" etc. + indieauth, mf2 + attend https://indieweb.org/events (twitter.com/_/status/907528414277640193)
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[kevinmarks] Great summary by acegiak https://twitter.com/acegiak/status/907507852914286592
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@acegiak @gritfish @briecode Replace corporately owned and hosted social networks with interlinked personally owned websites providing the same functionality (twitter.com/_/status/907507852914286592)
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@sl007 @ismail_kupeli Weil wir Technik und Philosophie nicht trennen können, bin ich gespannt auf https://indieweb.org/2017/Istanbul (twitter.com/_/status/907550173353705472)
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@kevinmarks Decentralized systems are antifragile, they degrade a bit over time, rather than vanishing overnight http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-antifragility-of-web.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/907551389739474944)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Decentralized systems are antifragile, they degrade a bit over time, rather than vanishing overnight http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-antifragility-of-web.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-09-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/decentralized-systems-are-antifragile-they-degrade-a-bit-over-time
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@mrkrndvs Rewilding EdTech @mweller – is this an #indieweb opportunity? http://blog.edtechie.net/edtech/rewilding-edtech/#comment-4535 (twitter.com/_/status/907586604948172801)
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jeremycherfas G;day IndieWeb
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sebsel lol, I like that indie-reacji can be any emoji, like [barryf]'s reacji to my post, and it just works :) https://barryfrost.com/2017/09/things-3
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Loqi [Barry Frost] ?
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Zegnat IndieWeb: “it just works” - sebsel
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sebsel remembers the HOURS that went into the rainbowflag-emoji without a real happy ending
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Zegnat Wait for Apple’s animated poop emoji to mess it all up again.
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aaronpk Oh gosh yeah how's that going to work
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Zegnat Maybe they add another modifier codebyte infront of the emoji to trigger animation. That would be a very clean way. And easy to ignore if your application doesn’t want to handle them and just display statics
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Zegnat But probably will not be a logical as that? :(
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aaronpk We'll find out soon
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snarfed aww sebsel you mean https://github.com/snarfed/granary/pull/108 ? it worked though! right?
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Loqi [sebsel] #108 add facebook pride reacji
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sebsel snarfed oh yes, it worked! I think the sad thing I remembered was that Facebook ditched the function after a few weeks. But indie-reacji still works for the rainbowflag for me!
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snarfed ahh
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sebsel Next year it might come back :)
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[kevinmarks] Interesting stats https://twitter.com/elongreen/status/907574723265138689
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@elongreen Twitter is wonderful in many ways, but as a means to get your stories read, rather useless. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJhaZbBUEAAdrU3.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/907574723265138689)
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petermolnar welp, my solution is simple: ignore emoji. It'll pass. It has to.
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Zegnat It is a little weird how that rainbowflag availability is gatekept by Facebook. I couldn’t use it at Pride this last weekend :(
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petermolnar #ownyourrainbowemoji
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schmarty good morning, indieweb!
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Loqi schmarty: sknebel left you a message 4 days, 16 hours ago: we talked about interview streaming, this (while still under development) could be interesting: https://github.com/getfireside/fireside / https://dev.fr.sd/ streams low-quality, records high-quality in local browser and merges both sides afterwards
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schmarty sknebel: thanks for the link! looks very interesting!
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vivus Is this the channel for discussing decentralized alternatives to social-media companies, etc. ?
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schmarty what is the indieweb?
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Loqi The IndieWeb is about owning your domain, using it as your primary identity to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and owning your data https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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sebsel Yes and no, this is the channel to discuss IndieWeb, which can be described as an decentralized alternative to social-media companies :)
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vivus why has adoption of decentralized alternatives been so lacklustre ?
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schmarty vivus: there is a channel focused on more generalized discussion of (re-)decentralization at #redecentralize
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vivus schmarty: is that the correct name? it's empty
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schmarty oh no, my bad. it is a channel on matrix rather than an IRC room. #redecentralize:matrix.org
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vivus I was thinking of getting Matrix. Perhaps the time has arrived
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petermolnar vivus matrix isn't a silver bullet either :)
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vivus well it's a better option to a centralized chat platform like slack, no?
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petermolnar good question - since it's quite hard to set up your own server instance; once that is out of reach most are going to be using a centralised hub anyway with a simple client setup
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petermolnar so... in some terms, yes, because in theory, everyone is free to set their own server up
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petermolnar in reality see mastodon
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petermolnar indieweb approached from a view: we believe the more diverse the web the better, so we only try to interconnect existing stuff
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petermolnar eg. make websites talk to eachother, like pingbacks did
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vivus I have no issue using a semi-decentralized option where there is a community working in tandem. Slack is not that. It doesn't even want to be a purveyor of OSS
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petermolnar I never said slack is better
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petermolnar but then you have xmpp
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petermolnar and I still don't completely get what matrix has over xmpp and/or sip and voip
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petermolnar apart from sitting on HTTP instead of semi-forgotten protocols
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petermolnar so, with indieweb, your handle, your main online personality is your domain and your website
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petermolnar which is probably the most essential difference
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vivus why has adoption of something like h-card been so low? do people not have interest to use it?
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petermolnar that I don't know. Google has a tendency to come up with their own (NIL?) then sunset it (see: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/17/8/owning-my-reviews ), there is Dublin Core and a few others as well, but in reality, I have no idea
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Why Microformats? Owning My Reviews
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aaronpk people don't tend to care about formats unless there is a concrete use case for them. this can take the form of "SEO" where people will implement whatever google says they will index, or facebook/twitter's meta tags so that links will look good when shared on facebook/twitter
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aaronpk in indieweb terms, we implement protocols like h-card and h-entry so that we can comment on each others' sites and the comments look like more than just plain links. they can show the author name and photo and such.
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petermolnar https://fillmem.com/post/fast-secured-and-free-static-site/ >> Getting_Started
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petermolnar https://fillmem.com/post/fast-secured-and-free-static-site/ > Getting_Started
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petermolnar oh come on
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petermolnar Getting_Started < https://fillmem.com/post/fast-secured-and-free-static-site/
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petermolnar grrr
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[kevinmarks] It's <<
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petermolnar Getting_Started << https://fillmem.com/post/fast-secured-and-free-static-site/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://fillmem.com/post/fast-secured-and-free-static-site/" to the "See Also" section of /Getting_Started
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[kevinmarks] Talking of opaque syntax with > in
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petermolnar [kevinmarks] that should be either >, >> or <<<
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petermolnar but << doesn't make sense
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Loqi Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "but" or similar
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tantek petermolnar - is that really a good reference for "Getting Started"? Seems very developer centric
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petermolnar sorry, Loqi
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tantek it even starts with the disclaimer accordingly: "Note: Unless you’re a developer or you want to learn how to do sites, my first advice is to avoid to build your own static site. "
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tantek /Getting_Started really should be focused on at least Generation 2 by now, and developer-specific stuff should get moved to a separate page
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petermolnar fair point
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petermolnar splitting /Getting_Started is a good idea
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tantek even many developers do not want to hassle with installing their own software for this stuff
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tantek much less "Setup the development environment" (!!!) (actual heading from the article)
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petermolnar eg. "Fast, simple, clickthrough? Goto X" "developer, CLI, gory details? Goto Y
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tantek petermolnar: no, "Fast, simple, clickthrough" should just be there, in-line
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tantek no extra nav
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petermolnar ok
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petermolnar need to go now, but I'll look into splitting it
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tantek developers know enough and are patient enough to do the extra nav and find more details
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tantek petermolnar: no, not splitting. forking all the dev-specific stuff to a separate page
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tantek seems similar but it's a matter of perspective
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tantek this is a bit meta so I'll go there
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@schmarty Here's an interview with @schnarfed from the most recent This Week in the #IndieWeb Podcast! ? Full Episode: https://martymcgui.re/2017/09/09/133301/ https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/907633572151926784/pu/img/eggSJHpPIARe4kT6.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/907633701714096128)
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tantek ooh!
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vivus can h-card be seen as an alternative to linkedin?
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tantek vivus, more like h-resume, but yeah
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tantek Spain puts the smack down on FB: http://www.politico.eu/article/facebook-fined-e1-2-million-in-spain/
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vivus tantek: why h-resume? I was thinking that for general networking between professionals, you keep your h-card (and interoperable between your phone-contacts, vcards, etc.) and when you want to apply for a job, you have h-resume
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vivus 2 million euros is a drop in the ocean for FB
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tantek vivus because LinkedIn is primarily about building an online resume / professional history profile, and that's what h-resume best represents.
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tantek nearly all silos / social media are "for general networking between professionals" - that's not unique to LInkedIn, hence yes, start with using your own site with an h-card for that
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vivus valid point
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vivus I don't wish to use h-card to be site-centric. I want to make it mobile phonebook friendly.
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tantek wanting to use it for whatever your own purposes -> site-centric which you control
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tantek it starts with site-centric, that enables you to expand beyond that to whatever specific use-cases ("mobile phonebook friendly", etc.) that you come up with over time
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tantek vivus, speaking of, add yourself to https://indieweb.org/irc-people so your log entries link to your site! https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-09-12#bottom
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vivus is this hosted anywhere: https://github.com/veganstraightedge/h-card-as-a-service ?
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Loqi [veganstraightedge] h-card-as-a-service
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vivus your blog is fascinating tantek
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Zegnat That used to be hosted. But I think Shaun might have taken it down because of spam (?)
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vivus noted. I'll continue the discussion in #microformats
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tantek hey thanks vivus. just trying to publish at least semi-often the things that come to mind. :)
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[cleverdevil] !tell aaronpk recently, performing likes/reposts on Quill for Twitter permalinks isn't performing the associated action on Twitter... not sure if this is a Quill thing or a Known thing.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: hmm
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Loqi aaronpk: [cleverdevil] left you a message 6 minutes ago: recently, performing likes/reposts on Quill for Twitter permalinks isn't performing the associated action on Twitter... not sure if this is a Quill thing or a Known thing.
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aaronpk quill does like/repost things itself if you've configured twitter in Quill
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[cleverdevil] Let me double check that I still have that configured.
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[cleverdevil] Yup, that's it, somehow it lost my Twitter connection.
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aaronpk strange!
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aaronpk hm maybe signed in as a different user? like no-www vs www
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[cleverdevil] Who knows, now I will know how to fix it if it happens again ?
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