#indieweb 2017-09-12

2017-09-12 UTC
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tantek
lol - I suppose that's about the right level of snark for a tweet reply
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aaronpk
Oh good twitter search is still working *whew*
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tantek
kevinmarks, here's the tweet to reply to as well if you want to thread: https://twitter.com/WIRED/status/906276009154052096
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@WIRED
"There is no straightforward technical solution to the problem of platform monopolies." http://wrd.cm/2gOrLKs
(twtr.io/1Vvj06q25_w)
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@eevee
@kevinmarks cool how this internet website is reachable despite being its own thing independent of all the others
(twtr.io/1W2UsfyqymS)
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@acegiak
@briecode People involved with #indieweb stuff are kind of working some of that stuff out slowly?
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Ruxton
I have some edits to clean them up sometime this week that ill contribute, and see what you think of those
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Ruxton
stupid hit up and enter without paying attention
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@acegiak
@gritfish @briecode Isn't it currently running on seed funding? Gosh I'm so sceptical, aren't I? I just want to be in the indieweb future already.
(twtr.io/1W32DZE4am8)
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@gritfish
@acegiak @briecode indieweb seems like... IFTTT and RSS feed stuff? Am I understanding this?
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[pfefferle]
good morning
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Loqi
good morning
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@sl007
@acegiak @briecode ? why slowly - most is already W3C recommendation "micropub, websub, webmention" etc. + indieauth, mf2 + attend https://indieweb.org/events
(twtr.io/1W3BPW7qZPD)
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@acegiak
@gritfish @briecode Replace corporately owned and hosted social networks with interlinked personally owned websites providing the same functionality
(twtr.io/1W342o2tYwY)
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@sl007
@ismail_kupeli Weil wir Technik und Philosophie nicht trennen können, bin ich gespannt auf https://indieweb.org/2017/Istanbul
(twtr.io/1W3K9sUtpHs)
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@kevinmarks
Decentralized systems are antifragile, they degrade a bit over time, rather than vanishing overnight http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-antifragility-of-web.html #indieweb
(twtr.io/1W3KawkpRFj)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Decentralized systems are antifragile, they degrade a bit over time, rather than vanishing overnight http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-antifragility-of-web.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-09-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/decentralized-systems-are-antifragile-they-degrade-a-bit-over-time
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jeremycherfas
G;day IndieWeb
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sebsel
lol, I like that indie-reacji can be any emoji, like [barryf]'s reacji to my post, and it just works :) https://barryfrost.com/2017/09/things-3
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Loqi
[Barry Frost] ?
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Zegnat
IndieWeb: “it just works” - sebsel
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sebsel
remembers the HOURS that went into the rainbowflag-emoji without a real happy ending
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Zegnat
Wait for Apple’s animated poop emoji to mess it all up again.
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aaronpk
Oh gosh yeah how's that going to work
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Zegnat
Maybe they add another modifier codebyte infront of the emoji to trigger animation. That would be a very clean way. And easy to ignore if your application doesn’t want to handle them and just display statics
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Zegnat
But probably will not be a logical as that? :(
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aaronpk
We'll find out soon
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snarfed
aww sebsel you mean https://github.com/snarfed/granary/pull/108 ? it worked though! right?
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Loqi
[sebsel] #108 add facebook pride reacji
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sebsel
snarfed oh yes, it worked! I think the sad thing I remembered was that Facebook ditched the function after a few weeks. But indie-reacji still works for the rainbowflag for me!
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sebsel
Next year it might come back :)
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@elongreen
Twitter is wonderful in many ways, but as a means to get your stories read, rather useless. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJhaZbBUEAAdrU3.jpg
(twtr.io/1W3Tw3sBBrV)
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petermolnar
welp, my solution is simple: ignore emoji. It'll pass. It has to.
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Zegnat
It is a little weird how that rainbowflag availability is gatekept by Facebook. I couldn’t use it at Pride this last weekend :(
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petermolnar
#ownyourrainbowemoji
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schmarty
good morning, indieweb!
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Loqi
schmarty: sknebel left you a message 4 days, 16 hours ago: we talked about interview streaming, this (while still under development) could be interesting: https://github.com/getfireside/fireside / https://dev.fr.sd/ streams low-quality, records high-quality in local browser and merges both sides afterwards
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schmarty
sknebel: thanks for the link! looks very interesting!
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vivus
Is this the channel for discussing decentralized alternatives to social-media companies, etc. ?
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schmarty
what is the indieweb?
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Loqi
The IndieWeb is about owning your domain, using it as your primary identity to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and owning your data https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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sebsel
Yes and no, this is the channel to discuss IndieWeb, which can be described as an decentralized alternative to social-media companies :)
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vivus
why has adoption of decentralized alternatives been so lacklustre ?
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schmarty
vivus: there is a channel focused on more generalized discussion of (re-)decentralization at #redecentralize
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vivus
schmarty: is that the correct name? it's empty
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schmarty
oh no, my bad. it is a channel on matrix rather than an IRC room. #redecentralize:matrix.org
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vivus
I was thinking of getting Matrix. Perhaps the time has arrived
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petermolnar
vivus matrix isn't a silver bullet either :)
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vivus
well it's a better option to a centralized chat platform like slack, no?
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petermolnar
good question - since it's quite hard to set up your own server instance; once that is out of reach most are going to be using a centralised hub anyway with a simple client setup
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petermolnar
so... in some terms, yes, because in theory, everyone is free to set their own server up
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petermolnar
in reality see mastodon
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petermolnar
indieweb approached from a view: we believe the more diverse the web the better, so we only try to interconnect existing stuff
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petermolnar
eg. make websites talk to eachother, like pingbacks did
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vivus
I have no issue using a semi-decentralized option where there is a community working in tandem. Slack is not that. It doesn't even want to be a purveyor of OSS
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petermolnar
I never said slack is better
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petermolnar
but then you have xmpp
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petermolnar
and I still don't completely get what matrix has over xmpp and/or sip and voip
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petermolnar
apart from sitting on HTTP instead of semi-forgotten protocols
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petermolnar
so, with indieweb, your handle, your main online personality is your domain and your website
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petermolnar
which is probably the most essential difference
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vivus
why has adoption of something like h-card been so low? do people not have interest to use it?
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petermolnar
that I don't know. Google has a tendency to come up with their own (NIL?) then sunset it (see: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/17/8/owning-my-reviews ), there is Dublin Core and a few others as well, but in reality, I have no idea
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Why Microformats? Owning My Reviews
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aaronpk
people don't tend to care about formats unless there is a concrete use case for them. this can take the form of "SEO" where people will implement whatever google says they will index, or facebook/twitter's meta tags so that links will look good when shared on facebook/twitter
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aaronpk
in indieweb terms, we implement protocols like h-card and h-entry so that we can comment on each others' sites and the comments look like more than just plain links. they can show the author name and photo and such.
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petermolnar
oh come on
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[kevinmarks]
Talking of opaque syntax with > in
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petermolnar
[kevinmarks] that should be either >, >> or <<<
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petermolnar
but << doesn't make sense
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Loqi
Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "but" or similar
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tantek
petermolnar - is that really a good reference for "Getting Started"? Seems very developer centric
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petermolnar
sorry, Loqi
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tantek
it even starts with the disclaimer accordingly: "Note: Unless you’re a developer or you want to learn how to do sites, my first advice is to avoid to build your own static site. "
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tantek
/Getting_Started really should be focused on at least Generation 2 by now, and developer-specific stuff should get moved to a separate page
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petermolnar
fair point
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petermolnar
splitting /Getting_Started is a good idea
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tantek
even many developers do not want to hassle with installing their own software for this stuff
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tantek
much less "Setup the development environment" (!!!) (actual heading from the article)
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petermolnar
eg. "Fast, simple, clickthrough? Goto X" "developer, CLI, gory details? Goto Y
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tantek
petermolnar: no, "Fast, simple, clickthrough" should just be there, in-line
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tantek
no extra nav
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petermolnar
need to go now, but I'll look into splitting it
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tantek
developers know enough and are patient enough to do the extra nav and find more details
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tantek
petermolnar: no, not splitting. forking all the dev-specific stuff to a separate page
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tantek
seems similar but it's a matter of perspective
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tantek
this is a bit meta so I'll go there
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vivus
can h-card be seen as an alternative to linkedin?
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tantek
vivus, more like h-resume, but yeah
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vivus
tantek: why h-resume? I was thinking that for general networking between professionals, you keep your h-card (and interoperable between your phone-contacts, vcards, etc.) and when you want to apply for a job, you have h-resume
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vivus
2 million euros is a drop in the ocean for FB
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tantek
vivus because LinkedIn is primarily about building an online resume / professional history profile, and that's what h-resume best represents.
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tantek
nearly all silos / social media are "for general networking between professionals" - that's not unique to LInkedIn, hence yes, start with using your own site with an h-card for that
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vivus
valid point
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vivus
I don't wish to use h-card to be site-centric. I want to make it mobile phonebook friendly.
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tantek
wanting to use it for whatever your own purposes -> site-centric which you control
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tantek
it starts with site-centric, that enables you to expand beyond that to whatever specific use-cases ("mobile phonebook friendly", etc.) that you come up with over time
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tantek
vivus, speaking of, add yourself to https://indieweb.org/irc-people so your log entries link to your site! https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-09-12#bottom
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Loqi
[veganstraightedge] h-card-as-a-service
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vivus
your blog is fascinating tantek
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Zegnat
That used to be hosted. But I think Shaun might have taken it down because of spam (?)
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vivus
noted. I'll continue the discussion in #microformats
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tantek
hey thanks vivus. just trying to publish at least semi-often the things that come to mind. :)
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[cleverdevil]
!tell aaronpk recently, performing likes/reposts on Quill for Twitter permalinks isn't performing the associated action on Twitter... not sure if this is a Quill thing or a Known thing.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
[cleverdevil]: hmm
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Loqi
aaronpk: [cleverdevil] left you a message 6 minutes ago: recently, performing likes/reposts on Quill for Twitter permalinks isn't performing the associated action on Twitter... not sure if this is a Quill thing or a Known thing.
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aaronpk
quill does like/repost things itself if you've configured twitter in Quill
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[cleverdevil]
Let me double check that I still have that configured.
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[cleverdevil]
Yup, that's it, somehow it lost my Twitter connection.
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aaronpk
strange!
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aaronpk
hm maybe signed in as a different user? like no-www vs www
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[cleverdevil]
Who knows, now I will know how to fix it if it happens again ?
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