#indieweb 2017-11-11

2017-11-11 UTC
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GWG Good evening all
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@jackjamieson I just saw your profile pop up on the IW wiki and was excited to see someone else interested in WordPress related readers. There" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-11-11 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/jackjamieson-i-just-saw-your-profile-pop-up-on-the
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@billbennettnz WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence — 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30 https://billbennett.co.nz/wordpress-indieweb-take-control-online-presence-630-gridakl-nov-30/ (twitter.com/_/status/929147490322042880)
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@billbennettnz Have added my Auckland Indieweb talk to the worldwide Indieweb page so international visitors can book their plane… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929150677435105280 (twitter.com/_/status/929150677435105280)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWebCamp Berlin 2017" by Neil Mather on 2017-11-11 https://doubleloop.net/2017/11/11/indiewebcamp-berlin-2017/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @ChrisAldrich" by Scott Kingery on 2017-11-11 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-chrisaldrich-7/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence � 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30" on 2017-11-11 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/geekzone/~3/Zjgk_GVJT2M/content.asp
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@geekz1 WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence � 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30 https://goo.gl/fb/GTGCLP #tech (twitter.com/_/status/929163839597314048)
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tantek https://twitter.com/Itszutak/status/929079880574107648
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@Itszutak @UnburntWitch i’d use mastodon but it’s so stratified and i’m afraid of losing friends who use different channels (twitter.com/_/status/929079880574107648)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Two years of being on the #indieweb" by Ben Werdmüller on 2015-07-11 https://werd.io/2015/two-years-of-being-on-the-indieweb
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Why we built Known" by Ben Werdmüller on 2015-12-08 https://werd.io/2015/why-is-known-the-best-way-to-solve-your-community
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@mrkrndvs @cogdog @johnjohnston @mdvfunes Wonder how this fits into the #IndieWeb and potential to 'quote' a podcast cc @ChrisAldrich (twitter.com/_/status/929207914195120128)
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aaronpk haha weird small world circling there
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Loqi nice
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Loqi [superfeedr] "WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence — 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30" by Bill Bennett on 2017-11-11 https://billbennett.co.nz/wordpress-indieweb-take-control-online-presence-630-gridakl-nov-30/
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@B2KInterNET WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence — 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30 - Geekzone http://dlvr.it/Q0MxbV #WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/929258660198412288)
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@WordPressShow WordPress and Indieweb: Take control of your online presence — 6:30 GridAKL Nov 30 - Geekzone http://dlvr.it/Q0N2Gk (twitter.com/_/status/929262949016911872)
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doubleloop[m] Morning all
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jeremycherfas Hello IndieWeb
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amz3 héllo indieweb :)
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jeremycherfas Hi amz3
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Got an IndieWeb site? Want to interact with Mastodon, Hubzilla, and the rest of the fediverse? Bridgy Fed is for you. https://fed.brid.gy/#servers" by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-11-09 https://rmendes.net/2017/got-an-indieweb-site-want-to-interact-with-mastodon-hubzilla
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Bookmarks and likes with #indieweb" by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-10-25 https://seblog.nl/2017/10/09/9/bookmarks-and-likes
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Loqi [superfeedr] "11/11/2017, 11:53" by Colin Walker on 2017-11-11 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/11/11/11112017-1153/
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Zegnat Here is a thought: I am on a social network of sorts that makes it very hard to export my data/posts. How easy would it be to demand my data from them under EU law instead? Or should I wait for GDPR?
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dgold well, where are they located?
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dgold hard to advise you on how hard it might be absent any information on which state they're domiciled in
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Zegnat The one I was looking at is in Romania, who do follow Directive 95/46/EC and have that in their own laws as well (as far as I could find).
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Zegnat But I meant it more as a question in general.
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Zegnat Is this something valid we should list on https://indieweb.org/export#Silos as some sort of last effort
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dgold until GPDR, its very much on a case by case basis
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dgold implementation of the last Data Directive was very patchy, so in some states the right to data extends only to _personally identifying_ data, so wouldn't apply to social media posts
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dgold that's what GPDR is _supposed_ to rectify
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dgold GDPR, obvs
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Zegnat Aah. Cool. So when GDPR actually lands coming May (I believe) it might become a viable option for demanding a copy of our posts on any EU operated silo?
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dgold well, yes, but not just on eu operated silos
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dgold http://www.eugdpr.org/key-changes.html
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dgold GDPR affects data held _on_ EU citizens, regardless of where the data operator is domiciled
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Zegnat Nice. Do you think that is an avenue worth documenting on /export?
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aaronpk If you try it then document your results for sure!
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Zegnat We went and asked for export options to be integrated: https://superthread.net/re/26610/ - if no answer comes we will try and request all our data through EU directive and see how they react :)
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dgold also important: http://www.eugdpr.org/gdpr-faqs.html
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dgold What constitutes personal data?
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dgold Any information related to a natural person or ‘Data Subject’, that can be used to directly or indirectly identify the person. It can be anything from a name, a photo, an email address, bank details, posts on social networking websites, medical information, or a computer IP address.
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dgold that highlighted language was added to the GPDR after sustained lobbying of the EU Commission by Twitter, Facebook et al.
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dgold The EuParliament found out about the lobbying, and they demanded that language went in.
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Zegnat That’s a good quote to have! Specifies that, yes, posts are personal information
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dgold well, if you liked that Zegnat, you'll love this (again from the executive summary, so its readable and coherent)
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dgold Part of the expanded rights of data subjects outlined by the GDPR is the right for data subjects to obtain from the data controller confirmation as to whether or not personal data concerning them is being processed, where and for what purpose.
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dgold Further, the controller shall provide a copy of the personal data, free of charge, in an electronic format.
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dgold oh, and you have the right to obtain that data, and transmit it onwards to another data controller
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Zegnat In other words, once I have obtained a copy of the data, the data is “mine” to do with as I please?
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dgold Yes!
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dgold I know that Faecbook, at least, have attempted in the past to stop people reposting data elsewhere, on the basis that it was a violation of their IP
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dgold there's a credible case that Facebooks PYMK datasets are subject to GPDR
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ancarda Hi everyone, I'm working on a WebMention implementation for my site. It seems like it's a good idea to save all mentions that have been received into a database. Are there any good limits on the length of source, target, and the overall POST body? I'm unsure how big to make the VARCHAR columns
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Zegnat Add to https://indieweb.org/GDPR#Data_Portability - if you have better links please upgrade there dgold :D
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Zegnat ancarda, sounds like a question for #indieweb-dev but the short answer: URLs don’t have a limit AFAIK
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ancarda Ok, I've reposted there - for now I can just have some high numbers (like 512 for urls, 2kb for body)
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Anchakor what is a "PYMK dataset"?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PYMK dataset" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Anchakor re the facebook attemts to control user data, I know about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook,_Inc._v._Power_Ventures,_Inc.
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dgold Anchakor: "People You MIght Know"
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dgold Facebook claims this is algorithmically generated data from users, and claims IP over the dataset
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dgold from an EU pov, this dataset is the result of processing personal data uploaded by users, and as such it _might_ be subject to GDPR
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dgold the issue is that the dataset isn't merely created from _your_ data, but from other users data, and is introduced into Facebook's hands without your consent
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Anchakor hmm, what is more interesting to me is if GDPR would allow you federating/copying messages/posts addressed to you, ranging from PMs to discussion threads you participated in
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@IndieWebCampDE Nach längerer Pause wieder Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg am 22. November — bist du dabei? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-11-22-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg (twitter.com/_/status/929421852694499328)
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@jkphl Let's get this frequent again: Next Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg on Nov 22nd — join us! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-11-22-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/929421536020324352)
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Zegnat Anchakor, that might be a different issue. Because the other person would own the copyright. And even as part of a data request the silo cannot grant you a right to publish someone else’s IP, I think.
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Anchakor it's a tough issue, because a format of a discussion software usually does disincentivises people for quoting parts of posts they are responding to
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dgold no, it can't
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dgold i don't think data protection is germane in relation to copying messages/posts addressed to you
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dgold while it may be addressed to you, its not _your_ data
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Anchakor yeah, seems like you can still use excerpts as allowed by the Doctrine of Fair Use
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Zegnat You can’t really mix fair use and GDPR. Fair Use doesn’t exist in big parts of the EU ;)
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[kevinmarks] Fair dealing does, though Droit d'auteur is tricky
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Anchakor Zegnat: seems like it is part of the Berne Convention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote
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Zegnat Yes, but the scope (as it says there under implementation) is basically left up to the different countries completely
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Zegnat I know that I wouldn’t be allowed to quote from a private letter in Sweden for instance. So if you are talking about DMs, that is a no go here.
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Anchakor how about public posts/discussion? as for DMs couldn't you back them up (from facebook to your own site, but still private to you)?
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Zegnat Yes, personal archiving is almost always allowed everywhere, it is publishing that gets you into trouble :)
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Zegnat Sweden limits citaträtt to publicly published content, IIRC. Which excludes DMs. If discussions are public, you should be allowed to quote, yes.
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Zegnat But, yeah, different jurisdictions are going to do different things. At least until the EU also sorts out copyright law once and for all (ha, good luck with that)
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@keithjgrant Considering releasing a stripped-down copy of my blog setup as a Hugo-based IndieWeb starter kit… ? (https://keithjgrant.com/notes/2017/11/71334/) (twitter.com/_/status/929436195704188928)
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@shurcooL @notwaldorf Is indieweb a thing that was discussed there at all? (twitter.com/_/status/929451422755667968)
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dgold Fair Use is pretty much meaningless in a !US context
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dgold much as the First Amendment has no meaning at all outside the us, despite the best efforts of the silos
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Zegnat I always find it interesting when EU YouTubers talk about Fair Use, parroting whatever US YouTubers said, forgetting they are creating there content on a different continent.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Feed Support for XRay" https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/releases/tag/v1.4.0 (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/11/11/7/)
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[kevinmarks] UK version https://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Keith J. Grant" by Michael Bishop on 2017-11-11 https://miklb.com/2017/11/keith-j-grant/
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[miklb] Should the title of reply indicate that it is a reply?
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KartikPrabhu [miklb]: the title just being the person's name is certaily not helpful
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aaronpk the title of the reply should be empty unless you want it to look like a blog post
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: an article could be a reply so it can have a title
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aaronpk sure
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aaronpk that's why I didn't say a reply should never have a title
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gRegorLove There's two p-names in that h-entry, miklb.
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gRegorLove If it was just one on the content of your reply, Loqi would have shown that ("I’d be interested in seeing...")
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gRegorLove Interesting that Keith's not has an empty p-name. Maybe WordPress is filling in the author name as a fallback when you post your reply? https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkeithjgrant.com%2Fnotes%2F2017%2F11%2F71334%2F
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gRegorLove s/not has/note has/
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[miklb] yes, the WordPress plugin retrieves that title. Maybe my template logic is bad in deciding whether it should display it.
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