#indieweb 2017-12-30

2017-12-30 UTC
sebsel, DanC, KartikPrabhu and curve25519 joined the channel
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Announcing lazymention: elegant outbound Webmention for static sites" https://strugee.net/blog/2017/12/announcing-lazymention-elegant-outbound-webmention-for-static-sites
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strugee it worked! whoohoooo
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strugee *and* now I don't have to copypasta myself lol
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strugee anyway! Webmention for static sites yayy
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk strugee++ congrats!
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Loqi strugee has 1 karma in this channel (3 overall)
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CamB So I'm trying to test webmentions on wordpress. commenting on my own post from my own site the webmention shows up in my admin comments section and my avatar appears under the original post, but the text from the comment isnt there. Could someone take a look please?
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CamB http://odat.xyz/2017/12/30/test-post/
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Loqi [camb] Test post
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aaronpk You should add to the challenge page for today!
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Loqi I agree
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tantek strugee++ that is awesome! and definitely add your blog post to the 29th on https://indieweb.org/2017-12-indieweb-challenge
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Loqi strugee has 2 karma in this channel (4 overall)
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strugee aaronpk, tantek: ha, I meant to do that but completely forgot! will do \o/
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strugee and thank you :-)
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strugee whoooo so excited
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strugee yikes, got midaired
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gRegorLove CamB: Can you let me know which IndieWeb plugins you've installed? There's a couple that may be necessary. I think Semantic Linkbacks makes webmention comments look nicer.
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gRegorLove We also have #indieweb-wordpress (IRC) and #wordpress (Slack) where our WordPress regulars are always willing to help (I'm only partially familiar with the WP plugins myself)
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gRegorLove pings GWG for WordPress stuff
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GWG CamB: It is classified as a mention. If you want to disable that, you can. Go into Settings->Discussion and turn off Facepiles for Mentions and it will show up as a comment.
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CamB GWG: Thank you! that's it.
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GWG Any time
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CamB gRegorLove: Thank you also. I see your webmention. Very cool.
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gRegorLove Woo!
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CamB gRegorLove: I see your webmention doesnt appaer to contain the link to the original test post like mine does. How did you do that?
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gRegorLove On my site it's in the /reply context that appears above my comment. Your URL is marked up with the in-reply-to microformat property.
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gRegorLove !mf2 https://gregorlove.com/2017/12/testing-webmentions-from-another-site/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Testing webmentions from another site!
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gRegorLove Hm, Kaja should link that.
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gRegorLove Parsed: https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F2017%2F12%2Ftesting-webmentions-from-another-site%2F
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gRegorLove With your test comment, you only mentioned the test post. The WP plugins (and a lot of other indie sites) will show that as a facepile or just "[name] mentioned this"
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GWG Basically, you have to tell it what the relationship is for it to work
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gRegorLove With the in-reply-to markup, it tells the target that it's meant as a reply, so the plugins show it as a comment.
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CamB gRegorLove: Oh. I think I understand. I will need to learn proper markup next.
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gRegorLove I'm not sure how to do /reply posts in WP, but GWG does :)
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GWG CamB: There is a plugin to help with that if you want.
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CamB GWG sure a plugin would be great to start with. I am using the Sempress theme
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GWG CamB: Try Post Kinds
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CamB GWG: thanks. I'm trying it out
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CamB gRegorLove: I have snet a reply to your comment. could you please see if you have received it?
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CamB http://odat.xyz/2017/12/30/testing-webmentions-from-another-site-gregorlove-com/
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Loqi [camb] Testing webmentions from another site! — gRegorLove.com
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gRegorLove CamB: Didn't receive one
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GWG It wasn't marked up a reply, CamB
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gRegorLove It doesn't appear to link to my URL?
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gRegorLove Is that maybe a theme issue, GWG? My comment showing up as the title of the post but no link?
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GWG No.
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GWG CamB: How did you create the post?
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gRegorLove It grabbed the <title> of my note somehow
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GWG My guess is, CamB installed Post Kinds, put the URL in the right box, but didn't select reply as the kind.
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GWG So, it marked it up as a note
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CamB yes. I thought that was the linkback. apparently I need to configure the kinds plugin some more
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CamB the reply option isnt there after the initial plugin install
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GWG Under Post Kind settings, you can enable which options you want. Reply should be in the default list.
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GWG Let me check the defaults
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GWG The 4 defaults are 'article', 'reply', 'note', and 'bookmark'.
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GWG So it would be there.
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GWG The Kind select box often ends up at the bottom on new installs.
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KartikPrabhu maybe move to indieweb-wordpress?
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CamB GWG: found it. Thank you!
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GWG CamB: I may try to bump the priority so it appears on top by default
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GWG CamB: If you need any more help, you are welcome in the wordpress room
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CamB gRegorLove: I updated the post as a reply. If you don't mind checking again.
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CamB GWG: Yes I will join the wordpress room. I will have lots of questions still
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gRegorLove Received and queued for processing
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CamB gRegorLove: Yay! wonderfull. Thank you for your help!
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Loqi woot
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gRegorLove CamB: And there it is as a comment: https://gregorlove.com/2017/12/testing-webmentions-from-another-site/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Testing webmentions from another site!
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gRegorLove CamB++
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Loqi camb has 1 karma
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CamB :)
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CamB Next time I will try to leave out the garbage in the beginning of the comment
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tantek it's not a *time*line, algorithmic or not, if it's not in chronological order. That's the *time* part of timeline.
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tantek context: https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexkantrowitz/twitter-to-introduce-algorithmic-timeline-as-soon-as-next-we
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tantek what is a feed
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Loqi A feed is a dynamic set of posts, typically listed in reverse-chronological order, often only the most recent n (like 10) of them https://indieweb.org/feed
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gRegorLove What is timetravelline?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "timetravelline" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "timetravelline is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek wat
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jjuran timeywimeyline
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Switching a WordPress server to HTTPS and HTTP/2 — David Mallard" by David Mallard on 2017-12-30 https://medium.com/@tobiasziegler/switching-a-wordpress-server-to-https-and-http-2-david-mallard-ef850491298a?source=rss------wordpress-5
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@mrkrndvs Bridgy Fed | @schnarfed #indieweb https://snarfed.org/2017-10-22_bridgy-fed (twitter.com/_/status/947047923208146949)
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tomasparks I am currently writing a scrobble note system that reads rhythmdb.xml and converts it into my notes yml format
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Zegnat Interesting
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tomasparks Rhythmdb.xml is Rhythmbox database
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@LancasterSci "Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere": nice way to retain control, but make your stuff easy to find by others https://indieweb.org/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/947082119641100288)
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sknebel Good morning IndieWeb!
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Zegnat Hellow sknebel
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dgold saluton mondo
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GWG Morning
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Loqi morning!
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tomasparks i've got my scrobble working
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tomasparks now i have to edited my note system and jekyll's layout
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@GlennRicePro http://Micro.blog: The new Technorati - http://glennrice.net/2017/12/30/micro-blog-the-new-technorati/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/947098287370248192)
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@Michcioperz @_pretzelhands @pretzel2018 is there like a mailing list or an RSS/Atom feed? I'm a huge https://indieweb.org/POSSE these days (twitter.com/_/status/947133784293560320)
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@schmarty Your &lt; 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for December 23rd - 29th, 2017. Thanks for listening in 2017! Looking forward to making more of these in the coming year! https://martymcgui.re/2017/12/30/121625/ (twitter.com/_/status/947155038614507521)
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • December 23rd - 29th, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/450260 (twitter.com/_/status/947156134602924032)
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/markpollard/status/947160780264411137
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@markpollard @itsopenstrategy @romy_nehme @itsbdell @tomcritchlow @apierno @ThinkRiseNY @Twitter @LinkedIn @instagram @facebook @Medium @tomfgoodwin @faris @tommorton @QuartzAtWork Since social platforms throttle your content and have played with the order in which posts appear, your content is a salmon. To climb the salmon ladder, you need to get attention and have established people interact with your content. Then you get a bump. Repeat. Or pay. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DST9WazV4AAjzwK.png (twitter.com/_/status/947160780264411137)
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snarfed hey aaronpk, when you get a chance, mind counting the total number of valid webmentions wm.io has received that aren't from bridgy? ie source domain isn't [www.]brid.gy or brid-gy.appspot.com. i'm hoping to roughly pinpoint when we hit 1M total wms. not urgent.
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snarfed !tell benwerd hi! when you get a chance, mind counting the total number of valid webmentions hosted known has received that aren't from bridgy? ie source domain isn't [www.]brid.gy or brid-gy.appspot.com. i'm hoping to roughly pinpoint when we hit 1M total wms. not urgent.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed !tell voxpelli hi! when you get a chance, mind counting the total number of valid webmention wm.herokuapp.com has received that aren't from bridgy? ie source domain isn't [www.]brid.gy or brid-gy.appspot.com. i'm hoping to roughly pinpoint when we hit 1M total wms. not urgent.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@DonaldBMcIntosh Sometimes Facebook's reach can seem overwhelming and then your blog turns up above Facebook on google search. Go #indieweb https://www.donaldmcintosh.net/content/Screenshot-20171230-213147.png (twitter.com/_/status/947223028416630784)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb WordPress Feedback" on 2017-12-30 https://gregorlove.com/2017/12/indieweb-wordpress-feedback/
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tantek Go Donald!
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tantek ok that's a good example to add to our SEO page, frankly
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tantek what is SEO
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Loqi SEO is an acronym for Search Engine Optimization which refers to the practice and results of publishing pages and permalinks on the web in order to rank better (earlier/higher) in web search engine results https://indieweb.org/seo
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tanlaan That's pretty awesome actually. I suppose semantic markup is always going to be helpful with SEO right? Some might use it and some might ignore it. But either way it's either net neutral or positive, not negative.
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tantek tanlaan: how about semantic markup and the absence of multimegabyte JS libs that slow everything down?
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tanlaan tantek: Ha! I can completely agree with that. I need to start playing around more on the web dev side of things to get my hands dirty but optimization just makes sense when you're using a small slice of the bigger JS library pie
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KartikPrabhu is there any evidence that the presence of large JS makes lower "SEO scores" on Google?
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KartikPrabhu Google itself uses gigantic JS stuff on Google+
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as a side-effect of perf, yes
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tantek KartikPrabhu: and you'll notice that G+ results don't typically show up in G search
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tantek slower site = lower SEO - that's been well documented
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KartikPrabhu ok
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tantek (search around a bit if you like). and yeah, multimeg JS = slow site load time
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tanlaan tantek: Nice, your site without cache is loading in 1.27s and with cache on 1.03. Reliably speedy :+1:
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tantek tanlaan: I'm actually a little embarrassed by that. I should be able to get it to load on "typical" broadband in <0.5s
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tantek but yeah, by today's sorry standards of what passes for web perf on typical (major) sites, my site is screaming fast lol
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tanlaan tantek: it'd be interesting if there was a flag in the useragent that could say "Hey, I've got slow internet. Only load your smallest assets please". Then a handshake wouldn't be required or a lazy load to get something to fill until the high res images come in
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tantek tanlaan: there is actually just such a thing already - responsive images
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tantek I just haven't had time to build support for it into my site yet
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tanlaan I'm assuming HTML5 spec?
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tantek let's see if it made it in there
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tantek what is responsive images
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Loqi responsive images are an extension to HTML to allow different resolutions of an img or a picture element, according to screen resolution or screen pixel density https://indieweb.org/responsive_images
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tanlaan problem there would be I can have an ipad retina display on a crappy 1mbps down internet connection
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tanlaan definitely checking out srcset though, always good to be on the up and up
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tantek wow caniuse is broken for me - I search for srcset and get a random set of other features instead
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tanlaan Came up just fine for me, no IE11, Edge 16 or greater, no opera mini, but everything else is green
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tanlaan 86.43% fully supported
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tantek hmm maybe my add-ons are blocking some JS or something
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tanlaan *86.42
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KartikPrabhu I do use srcset on my site
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tantek tanlaan: yes, srcset and/or the <picture> element are both worth looking into
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KartikPrabhu https://caniuse.com/srcset
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tantek really wish they wouldn't redirect to a # URL :(
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tantek caniuse--
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Loqi caniuse has 0 karma
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KartikPrabhu yeah me too, so I made the actual URL by hand :P
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Zegnat There is the Network Information API, https://wicg.github.io/netinfo/, but I really hope people will not start using that to detect if they should load big assets or not
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Zegnat I feel like they would be tempted too though
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Zegnat (hat tip https://adactio.com/links/12882)
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Network Information API September 25th, 2017 It looks like this is landing in Chrome. The navigator.connection.type property will allow us to progressively enhance based on connection type: A web application that makes use of a service ...
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tantek sorta yea it's been a big debate
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tantek it kinda provides just enough information to make bad decisions :/
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tantek e.g. for a fast (4G) but per GB pay connection, I don't want the biggest assetts, I actually want the smallest ones unless I click on them
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Zegnat Yes and for WiFi on my laptop, 90% of the time I am either tethering from my phone (small data bundle) or on my home 4G network (big data bundle, but still monthly limit).
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tantek right, same idea
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Zegnat What network adapter is being used on my laptop (wifi/internet/bluetooth) says nothing at all about the actual connection.
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tantek tethering from phone, or using mifi
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tantek exactly
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Decentralized Web Pt 2" by Mike McCallister on 2017-06-20 https://medium.com/@workingwriter/decentralized-web-pt-2-32c20ffad024?source=rss-1f793763e06a------2
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@WorkingWriter I just published “Decentralized Web Pt 3: Join the IndieWeb” https://medium.com/p/decentralized-web-pt-3-join-the-indieweb-30482d3b9551 (twitter.com/_/status/947250654837379072)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Decentralized Web Pt 3: Join the IndieWeb" by Mike McCallister on 2017-09-11 https://medium.com/@workingwriter/decentralized-web-pt-3-join-the-indieweb-30482d3b9551?source=rss-1f793763e06a------2
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strugee hey, does anyone know where the dt-updated property is defined? https://indieweb.org/updated mentions it but I can't find any examples or explanations
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strugee is it an mf2 thing? an HTML thing?
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KartikPrabhu it is mf2 thing. classes in HTML are arbitrary
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strugee right
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KartikPrabhu strugee: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Properties
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML. ...
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strugee ahhhh thank you
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strugee KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi kartikprabhu has 149 karma in this channel (159 overall)
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KartikPrabhu strugee: dt-updated is similar to dt-published except it is supposed to be the datetime when the post was updated
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KartikPrabhu so any example for dt-published works for dt-updated too
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strugee yeah that all makes sense, I was just looking for the exact format which the FAQ covers
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strugee i.e. that it should be used with <time>
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Decentralized Web Pt 4: Progress and Setbacks" by Mike McCallister on 2017-11-06 https://medium.com/@workingwriter/decentralized-web-pt-4-progress-and-setbacks-77e205ce442a?source=rss-1f793763e06a------2
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j12t_ I'm now done with the tutorials I wanted to write: https://indieweb.org/Tutorials ... corrections, improvements very welcome.
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j12t How should we link it into the rest of the site? Add a link from "Getting Started"?
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@Johannes_Ernst Created two end-to-end #IndieWeb tutorials: from how to create an Amazon EC2 account, domain name purchase and configuration, provision a server, install and configure Wordpress or Known with IndieWeb features. https://indieweb.org/Tutorials (twitter.com/_/status/947254576519852034)