#indieweb 2018-03-16

2018-03-16 UTC
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@zmoglesby
I put my new reading plugin for Known on github. Track your book reading IndieWeb style. I still have some work to do on it, but the basic parts work. https://github.com/zoglesby/Known-Read
(twitter.com/_/status/974438453768278016)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I put my new reading plugin for ..." by Zach Oglesby on 2018-03-16 https://zach.oglesby.co/2018/03/16/i-put-my-new-reading-plugin-for
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "A year with the IndieWeb" https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20180314144847
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@sdepolo
Thanks, @blncdbrkfst for the opportunity to chat today about controlling your online identity and using social media effectively. Check my live broadcast at https://www.facebook.com/socialStacey/posts/2228557790491372 if you missed it. #blncdbrkfst #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/974451283665891328)
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@cbfishes
What is the IndieWeb? **I like to DIY.** I built my own synthesizer, I run my own webserver, and I pickle my own... https://fb.me/N3wvbJXv
(twitter.com/_/status/974476570718035969)
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Loqi
Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-16.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@cbfishes
OK here is one last test before I finally go to sleep. Learning about #microformats, #indieweb, and #webmentions Sometimes I wonder how I end up way down these rabbit holes https://chrisbeckstrom.com/feed/2018/03/15/32/
(twitter.com/_/status/974496449894416384)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "OK here is one last test before I finally go to sleep. Learning..." on 2018-03-16 https://chrisbeckstrom.tumblr.com/post/171919696386
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "What is the IndieWeb?" on 2018-03-16 https://chrisbeckstrom.tumblr.com/post/171917668946
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[miklb]
what is latergram
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "latergram" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "latergram is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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@niels_k
@Gehirnfussel Indieweb-Zeuch, ich sag's ja. Es war das Syndication Links-Plugin.
(twitter.com/_/status/974513039847317506)
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@jackyalcine
I keep saying I'm about the @indiewebcamp movement but I keep using Twitter.
(twitter.com/_/status/974515621651136512)
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@niels_k
lol…the whole Indieweb-thing shouldn’t be GDPR-compliant. When someone on twitter replies to me, it gets added as a comment to my website which shouldn’t allowed without consent from the user…ok…
(twitter.com/_/status/974515962345963520)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@niels_k
lol…the whole Indieweb-thing shouldn’t be GDPR-compliant. When someone on twitter replies to me, it gets added as a comment to my website which shouldn’t allowed without consent from the user…ok…
(twitter.com/_/status/974515962345963520)
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KartikPrabhu
is twitter GDPR compliant?
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Zegnat
What is disclaimer?
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Loqi
A disclosure is a bit of content, typically on a home page, on an indie web site that proactively discloses some aspect about the site that the site owner wants the user to explicitly be aware of https://indieweb.org/disclaimer
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Zegnat
That has done examples of people trying to inform others that their comments might get syndicated.
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Zegnat
There are probably other ways too. sgreger anonymises backfed interactions. But you could also display embedded tweets under your posts, which people will have agreed to by using Twitter.
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Zegnat
So probably several ways to stay GDPR compliant with IndieWeb
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[kevinmarks]
GDPR Article 9) (2) e exempts processing relates to personal data which are manifestly made public by the data subject; https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/
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Loqi
[kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 12 minutes ago: WDYT? https://twitter.com/niels_k/status/974515962345963520
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[kevinmarks]
gdpr << GDPR Article 9) (2) e exempts processing relates to personal data which are manifestly made public by the data subject; https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/
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Loqi
ok, I added "GDPR Article 9) (2) e exempts processing relates to personal data which are manifestly made public by the data subject; https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR
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Zegnat
I am not sure that is relevant here, [kevinmarks]. Surely that only applies to personal data as defined in in 9(1)? And while it lifts the prohibition, surely it doesn’t cancel all other parts of the GDPR as it applies to e.g. the Tweet itself?
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@martijnvdven
@niels_k But indeed, a lot of these conversations still need to be had! Both from the general copyright (https://indieweb.org/repost#Copyright_issues) and GDPR side. @sebastiangreger’s website is a good example of showing outside interactions on his website in an anonymous way: https://sebastiangreger.net/2018/02/eight-insights-wire-gdpr-discussion-panel/#comments-6126
(twitter.com/_/status/974573188633030656)
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dgold
I'm not sure why [kevinmarks] thinks 9(2)(e) is relevant to indieweb
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[kevinmarks]
right byt para 1 is “Processing of personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, or trade union membership, and the processing of genetic data, biometric data for the purpose of uniquely identifying a natural person, data concerning health or data concerning a natural person’s sex life or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.” - i'm assuming “political opinions, religious or p
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[kevinmarks]
covers tweets
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dgold
no, it doesn't
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dgold
9(2)(e) is an exception to 9(1)
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dgold
9(1) refers to information revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, or trade union membership, and the processing of genetic data
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dgold
I had this discussion with some GDPR people at a training session, they were very adamant it does not refer to 'tweets'
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Zegnat
I would assume it to mean that if someone announces their party membership in a public tweet I am no longer prohibited from using that information. Because they choose to make their affiliation public. But not to mean the entire tweet itself is unprotected.
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dgold
exactly
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Zegnat
insert general handwaiving disclaimer of not being in anyway reliable for legal advice here
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[kevinmarks]
the tweet is still copyright to them, sure. Calling it personal data is a bit of a stretch, but we will have to wait for caselaw here
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dgold
it would be a profound mistake to imagine that 9(2)(e) `covers tweets`
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[kevinmarks]
but if I am constrained from showing his tweet in reply to me, he is equally constrained from showing the tweet he's replying to
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dgold
i agree that it is probably important in many other ways, but not in the way (I think) you are constraining it here.
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[kevinmarks]
if attaching a twitter handle is interpreted as making the tweet personal data, then in @'ing me in the first place he has done the exact same thing
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[kevinmarks]
recital 153 may apply too, but that will depend on individual states laws: https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-153/
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dgold
hold on a sec - I've waded into the middle of something here, apologies, but i'm unclear
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dgold
has the contention been made that GDPR _prevents_ you from providing tweet content as a reply/like/repost context?
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@niels_k
lol…the whole Indieweb-thing shouldn’t be GDPR-compliant. When someone on twitter replies to me, it gets added as a comment to my website which shouldn’t allowed without consent from the user…ok…
(twitter.com/_/status/974515962345963520)
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dgold
ok - I'd posit that your comment is incorrect, 9.2.e isn't relevant
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dgold
BUT that's only because the OP contention is nonsense
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@swentel
And a second alpha is already out! More features, no breaking changes! Also I will be conservative and even add upgrade paths since I use this extensively already on my site, so don't be afraid to test out! https://www.drupal.org/project/indieweb/releases/8.x-1.0-alpha2
(twitter.com/_/status/974577858160054274)
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dgold
posting the content of a non-provate tweet as context to a reply/repost/like is not a violation of GDPR principles
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Zegnat
I thought “posts on social networking websites” were specifically called out as “personal data” (https://www.eugdpr.org/gdpr-faqs.html#What%20constitutes%20personal%20data). So surely automatically pulling in someone else’s tweets by your CMS turns you into some sort of data collector/processor per GDPR?
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@drupal8modules
New #alpha version released for #drupal8 #module indieweb (8.x-1.0-alpha2). More info: https://www.drupal.org/project/indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/974578617584930816)
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dgold
Zegnat: that's an overly broad interpretation, and, from my training in the area, is not backed up by the law
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dgold
(and I realise I may have been more alarmist on this in the past)
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Zegnat
Hmm. So is https://indieweb.org/GDPR#Data_Portability still accurate? Or is portability not relying on that interpretation?
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[kevinmarks]
portability is a bit different
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Zegnat
It probably is, but our wiki page seems to rely on the “overly broad interpretation” of personal data that I just cited for portability.
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Zegnat
Definitions of data may be different for portability, I don’t know, just pointing at the wiki now asking if it is still accurate :)
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dgold
Zegnat: they're two very disparate areas
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@m_ott
@sl007 @btconf Thank you, Sebastian! 😁 Will you be at the @IndieWebCampDE again?
(twitter.com/_/status/974579815629119488)
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dgold
Zegnat: the section on portability is still accurate
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Zegnat
Good to know!
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@btconf
The @IndieWebCamp is back in town during #btconf Düsseldorf. Join us for two exciting days, taking place at our friends @sipgateDE home. https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2018/side-events/indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/974587967728693248)
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petermolnar
data portability... yeah, right... the Facebook data export had gone from containing usernames (the ones in the url) to display names, and only those. It's impossible to trace them back to user ids or user names, given the API had listing your own friends' user IDs restricted from a long while.
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Zegnat
Maybe send them an official request for all of the data under GDPR later, petermolnar? ;)
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petermolnar
I'm considering that, yes; on the other hand, userid and username is not a portable thing, is it?
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Zegnat
If they are people you have explicitly tagged within your post, I would say that explicit tag is part of the post content that you are asking for under GDPR? (That is, some sort of identifier for the specific user you tagged.) But Facebook might argue differently of course, and say only the plain text value of a post is yours.
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Zegnat
If I had tagged you in a post as just “Peter”, that wouldn’t be portable at all without the tagging meta-data, as I know several Peters. If I explicitly made sure to tag the right Peter, surely that should fall under the contents that I must be able to export?
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petermolnar
if the tag works as, say, a html attribute, it should be portable, in theory; what's under question, is what counts as tag - a url? a username? an email? etc. This is where the swamp of Facebook will slow everything down.
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@jgmac1106
I wish browser history was downloadable and allowed for corss browser integration. I love Private browsing in Firefox but need my history. Sometimes still use Chrome (Chromebook or needing a plug in) I want privacy but want a way to syndicate all browser history. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/974596241693855745)
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Zegnat
Hmm. I thought Xmarks did history, but apparently only between Firefox instances
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dgold
GDPR not active mandatorily until May
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Zegnat
I know. Currently writing some letters based on the current Swedish personal data law (PUL) to try and get some funky health data
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sknebel
good morning indieweb!
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Zegnat
Good morning sknebel
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sknebel
the bridgy setup is a bit odd in regard to deletions - Twitter API users have to check if tweets got deleted when displaying them, but bridgy doesn't store and the sites aren't Twitter API users
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@cbfishes
Yesterday I dove headfirst into the IndieWeb, a set of principles / set of tools / way of doing things that is an effort to decentralize the internet; take the power away from the big “silos” like Facebook and Google and give it back to the people. I… https://chrisbeckstrom.com/feed/2018/03/16/46/
(twitter.com/_/status/974655035291394049)
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@cbfishes
Yesterday I dove headfirst into the IndieWeb, a set of principles / set of tools / way of doing things that is... https://fb.me/9gYBT0o3n
(twitter.com/_/status/974655074264932353)
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sebsel
Morning IndieWeb :)
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eli_oat
yo yo yo yo yo!
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jeremycherfas
Morning everybody
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sknebel
morning!
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skippy
is anyone self-hosting Known with Caddy? Curious what rewrites are necessary to make it work, since Caddy doesn't do .htaccess
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Loqi
I’m quitting Instagram. Here’s why. I’ve always been quite open about the fact that I’m only here for the attention. To the extent that it’s used as a bit of fun, I see no problem with Instagram. But I’ve become increasingly conscious of ... https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/d596aa01e43afe63de0b8bbd34053ecb/5B3FFBFF/t51.2885-15/e35/28433872_167786567353453_3810764434079481856_n.jpg
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petermolnar
"> albeit of people you have not and probably never will actually meet" that is an interesting point; in my experience, communities of mixed/augmented realities worked the best; those with both real world meetups and online communication forums/IRC channels. Only this or only that was always lacking something.
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schmarty
dang, it is really satisfying to make a reply post on my site, send that webmention, and see it show up immediately on the original post.
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schmarty
webmention++
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Loqi
webmention has 3 karma in this channel (4 overall)
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aaronpk
I saw your webmention in my reader too :)
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schmarty
i'm very tempted to switch my incoming webmention notifications over to aperture rather than as chat messages.
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aaronpk
and was able to reply in my reader!
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aaronpk
so cool
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aaronpk
do you get push notifications from the chat messages? cause that's one thing that's missing right now in this setup
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zoglesby
schmarty: is the move to Tuesdays for the baltimore meetup a permanent thing?
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schmarty
yeah i saw your reply webmention as notifications on my phone and laptop via the Riot.im app
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schmarty
but sometimes that gets to be too many notifications.
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aaronpk
i'm trying to figure out how I want to handle push notifications. Either getting enough realtime stuff in place so that [eddie]'s server for Indigenous can send notifications, or write something into Aperture that can ping a separate push notification app like Pushover
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schmarty
Zach Oglesby: presently, yes, HWC Baltimore meets on Tuesdays instead of Wednesdays because I have a conflict on Wednesdays.
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schmarty
that said, we make exceptions when there's a conflict for the venue
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schmarty
aaronpk: i have some thoughts on collapsing/summarizing notifications as well
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zoglesby
schmarty: okay, I have been meaning to make it out for months, but Tuesdays are hard so I will see what I can do.
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schmarty
(e.g. your reply showed up twice in my notifications because it mentions both my post and my home page)
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zoglesby
And I don't really like to drive into the city if I don't have too
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aaronpk
collapsing/summarizing/clustering is really tricky. I have an attempt at it in webmention.io
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schmarty
Zach Oglesby: sorry for the inconvenient day and i totally understand about getting into the city!
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schmarty
living car-free in downtown baltimore i have a hard time getting to most other "Baltimore" tech meetups which ironically tend to meet in the surrounding counties. 😂
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aaronpk
also one thing i'm noticing is there's a lot of special handling needed for home page webmentions in order to get the notification text right
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schmarty
aaronpk: home page mentions are definitely a whole extra set of cases. i should really write up my experiences w/ these notifications as a way of documenting future notification design.
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aaronpk
totally
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aaronpk
also maybe I should stop sending home page webmentions for replies :)
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schmarty
haha, that is why i still manually send WMs
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[kim_landwehr]
Hello to all. I am new to the concept of the Indie Web, (although it does remind me a lot of the web of 1990’s), so I will probably ask some really basic questions so be nice ok
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Loqi
hehe
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jeremycherfas
Welcome [kim_landwehr]
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schmarty
maybe i could use my telegraph history to find a set of "when to send webmention rules" to automate it to my preferences.
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KartikPrabhu
[kim_landwehr]: welcome. we are nice by default (hopefully) :)
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[eddie]
I guess the tricky thing is, what if you are replying to one person and mention a different person
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[eddie]
Step 1 could be not sending a home page webmention for the same domain as a reply
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[eddie]
although, as in most things, that wouldn’t work in the case of Zegnat
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aaronpk
[eddie]: I was thinking just don't send a webmention to the author url of the in-reply-to post
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[eddie]
oh! that actually fixes all of those issues
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[eddie]
Yes, I would say that is sound logic
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aaronpk
this is only a problem because I expand my reply context before sending webmentions
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[eddie]
oh! That makes sense. It expands the reply context, thus it sees the author’s url when sending the webmentions
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aaronpk
yep! so it wasn't even like it was an intentional feature I added. it just started happening when I started auto-expanding reply contexts
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Yesterday I dove headfirst into the IndieWeb, a set of principles / set of tools / way of doing..." on 2018-03-16 https://chrisbeckstrom.tumblr.com/post/171931422151
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[kim_landwehr]
What does the word APP in grey indicate next to a person’s name indicate?
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KartikPrabhu
[kim_landwehr]: where/link?
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[miklb]
they are connected through IRC
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KartikPrabhu
oh this is IRC-Slack
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[kim_landwehr]
Ah, [miklb] that makes sense, thanks
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[miklb]
not to be confused with the deprecated IRC gateway that Slack is dropping
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Zegnet
!tell skippy I do not recall anyone specifically running Known on Caddy. But I would not be surprised if some are running it on nginx without issue already so mod_rewrite rules should be easy enough to port
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnet
!tell [eddie] re: “as in most things, that wouldn’t work in the case of Zegnat” - I take pride in having been described as https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-12-27/1514387732934700
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[grantcodes] You must be the edgiest of edge cases :P
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Zegnat
Loqi, +v me!
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skippy
thanka Zegnat
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Loqi
skippy: Zegnet left you a message 4 minutes ago: I do not recall anyone specifically running Known on Caddy. But I would not be surprised if some are running it on nginx without issue already so mod_rewrite rules should be easy enough to port
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Zegnat
Now that I think about it, I run known on nginx. As my test setup is through valet.
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skippy
now i'm looking at nanopub, and wondering whether that's less effort for me sicne I already have Hugo builidng my site...
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skippy
analysis paralysis!
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Zegnat
If you don't have a need for a completely different CMS, one of the Micropub endpoints for static sites could definitely be a better option
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[eddie]
Zegnat++ for being one of our edgiest edge cases 😄
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Loqi
zegnat has 84 karma in this channel (180 overall)
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skippy
quill doesn't support photo posting, does it?
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[miklb]
it does
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skippy
ah. cool.
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petermolnar
Zegnat: you really need some weird, arcane web server as a crown jewel; caddy, cherokee, Hiawatha, pick something ;)
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[miklb]
at least on iOS I can pick from the camera roll skippy
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skippy
thanks [miklb]
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skippy
Caddy isn't arcane! ;) THIS is an arcane webserver: http://www.pugo.org/project/pshttpd/
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petermolnar
I mean O.O
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Zegnat
I am not opposed to arcane webservers. Maybe something to do when everyone has figured out how to talk with my current setup ;-)
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skippy
oh, nanopub is hard-coded for the author's use case, and not exactly a general purpose solution...
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Zegnat
skippy, would something like https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express be more general?
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Loqi
[voxpelli] node-micropub-express: Provides a Micropub route for Express 4.x
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Zegnat
(Probably a conversation for #indieweb-dev)
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skippy
Zegnat: probably; but i have an aversion to node based solutions. :( I don't speak JS at all.
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skippy
https://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/minimum-viable-micropub and nanopub are likely enough to let me cobble something together on my own.
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skippy
is there a public demo of quill, or other micropub services, that i can see without actually having a micropub endpoint defined? i'd like to see the interface.
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sknebel
What is sink?
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Loqi
Sink is an experimental site by Martijn van der Ven that allows anyone with an IndieAuth enabled URL to post to it using any Micropub client https://indieweb.org/Sink
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Zegnat
You should be able to point any Micropub client at Sink, yeah. But you’ll need an IndieAuth endpoint set-up to be able to use Sink still
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skippy
neat!
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Zegnat
You might also be able to fake both a Micropub endpoint and the IndieAuth endpoint by using https://wiki.zegnat.net/media/token-provider.php ; But I keep that less up-to-date.
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Loqi
totally
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skippy
that's cool. thanks Zegnat !
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Zegnat
Let me know if either Sink or the Magic URL fails for you in some way and I’ll be happy to help!
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skippy
sink worked fine. thanks.
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skippy
doesnt support media uploads from quill, but i see how it works.
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Zegnat
Yeah, I haven’t created a public media endpoint because I wasn’t planning to allow people to use my server for random file hosting ;)
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@fletcher0xFF
The programmer @cshotton has begun microblogging on http://Radio3.io. He created MacHTTP, the first web server on the Mac. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/974721223107207169)
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@sdepolo
Thanks for the tip @film_girl. @no and @pfunder I hope we can plan to attend this in September, as well as #indieweb #IWC in June, both in Portland this year. https://twitter.com/film_girl/status/974736668245684224
(twitter.com/_/status/974742591387217920)
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Loqi
Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-16.html
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gRegorLove
oh yeah, newsletter day!
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tantek
newsletter looks pretty good for a usually "off" HWC week
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tantek
silo-quits << 2018-03-08 Instagram silo-quit: https://instagram.com/p/BgD-k5KFpm8/ <blockquote>I’m quitting Instagram. Here’s why. […]</blockquote>
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Loqi
ok, I added "2018-03-08 Instagram silo-quit: https://instagram.com/p/BgD-k5KFpm8/ <blockquote>I’m quitting Instagram. Here’s why. […]</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits
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Loqi
I’m quitting Instagram. Here’s why. I’ve always been quite open about the fact that I’m only here for the attention. To the extent that it’s used as a bit of fun, I see no problem with Instagram. But I’ve become increasingly conscious of ... https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/d596aa01e43afe63de0b8bbd34053ecb/5B3FFBFF/t51.2885-15/e35/28433872_167786567353453_3810764434079481856_n.jpg
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tantek
wow Swarm (iOS App) finally added edit capability!
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tantek
trying to resist the urge to go back and fix years worth of typos
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tantek
what is Caddy
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Loqi
Caddy is an HTTP/2 web server, built for designers, bloggers and developers, with a simple configuration and automatic TLS https://indieweb.org/Caddy
sebsel and eli_oat joined the channel
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skippy
Caddy is pretty slick. I've been very happy with it.
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@ubc_feed
Signpost 2 Skills, Livs, NowThis, EduMatch®, ACIC also Tweeted. Your Highlights Tantek Çelik @t Event: Homebrew Website Club SF!At: 2018-03-21 17:30 @MozSFRSVP: http://tantek.com/e/4tX1  2 Signpost 2 Skills @Signpost2Skills Round off #BSW2018 this Sunday…
(twitter.com/_/status/974777466811244550)
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tantek
officially been over 2 months since I checked my FB notifications and I'm coming up with strategies for not having to check them
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Loqi
Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-03-23.html
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tantek
gives Loqi a DST nudge
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Loqi
gives back the DST nudge
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tantek
clearly
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^ :)
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tantek
(note the newsletter went out at 15:00 PDT, while Loqi's message above is still triggered on PDT)
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tantek
on *PST)
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tantek
apparently a new "Frequency" option on FB's create event UI
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tantek
screenshotting (default to Occurs Once, Daily, Weekly, Custom...)
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tantek
if you pick Custom... you get an event date picker
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electronicmaji and tantek joined the channel