#Zegnatjgmac1106, ha, no problem. We were discussing some trouble getting people on Mumble again and how we need some solid guide for it.
#jgmac1106ooh okay yeah I can record an iOS tutorial later today, been awhile and I have forgotten how to do it so that will help as I fool around
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#Zegnatjgmac1106, yeah, I didn’t recall whether you actually said you’d look into making some guides (to also possibly help students). Was just something itching at the back of my mind :) No worries
#jgmac1106I can would be super easy, will stick to Hangouts for now screensharing for my own vHWC but will do a mumble guide for vHWC-Europe
#jgmac1106will work on it once kids are at school and house is quiet
#ZegnatThat would be super appreciated! I will work to get the book and chapter citation stuff into my little project over lunch :)
#ZegnatI think both [Vanessa] and I ended up setting push-to-talk to a mouse button. Something I would totally recommend if you have a gaming mouse with a button to spare
#jgmac1106[zegnat] you google skills were better than mine, I found a similar bibtex resource but wanted us working on same, meant to write something up how starnge it is that is took some time to find good documentation….and whomever owns bibtext.org and hasn’t updated sicne 2006 I shake my fist at you
#ancardaZegnat: Have you written anything about your experiences moving off FitBit?
#jgmac1106but you can wait until I get all the form fields in place
#ancardaI'd love to hear more as I use Apple Health for a lot of stuff, but it's not easily exportable, and I'd prefer if I could somehow collect data to my server (e.g. Bluetooth scale that's programmable / has some kind of API)
#Zegnatancarda: there wasn’t anything to write. I was only tracking weight there. The FitBit devices I had ended up not working for me, so I tracked maybe 1.5 days of activity that wasn’t worth keeping around.
#Zegnatjgmac1106, from what I have been able to find, BibTeX is very loosely defined. The data structure is defined, a few entry types have been defined (though I am not even sure if that might only be through convention rather than standard), and then I couldn’t find any more.
#ZegnatI am surprised a format that has apparently so little documentation is so prevalent. Its whole existence seems to be “because LaTeX”.
#Zegnatancarda, definitely don’t switch to FitBit for data exportability. Their default data export can only do up to 31 days of aggregate data, if I saw that right.
#ZegnatI ended up just scraping my weights off of my profile
#jgmac1106yeah, most use EndNote, Zotero, or Mendeley but that takes third party softward. BibText doesn’t and it was only option that gave you data from Google Scholar and browser plug-ins
#Zegnatjgmac1106, I was down the rabbit hole on Wikipedia the other day, looking at other reference storage formats, and it doesn’t look like any of them do any processing on author names. Its basically always used verbatim. So if you put garbage in, you get garbage out.
#ZegnatI am surprised that Google seems to do a relatively OK job at all the different author notations for the different citation styles
#jgmac1106they are probably cross referenceing other publications and reading the citation a bunch of times and then spitting back the most correct version
#jgmac1106I think we just allow people to edit the names, the only other possibility would be an intermediary UI step. Select citation style (APA), citation type (Chapter in Book) and we spit out a text field for each BibTex field and say “Make Any Necessary Changes Then hit Build Citation”
#jgmac1106Not something for MVP probably but very doable
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#ZegnatYes. I think at that point you just have to be careful not to turn it into a fullscale citation manager. There is probably better software for that.
#jeremycherfasThe whole citation format thing is a complete mess. I use Bookends, which does a brilliant job of importing from all sorts of formats, and allows you to define your own templates. In the end, though, there is not canonical version of an author's name, for example. Some journals use full names. Some only initials. Some first name and any middle initials. Etc etc.
#jeremycherfasDedicated software also does a much better job of formatting output exactly as you want it either idiosyncratic or for specific publishers.
#jeremycherfasMy feeling is that h-cite is being press-ganged into being something it might not be well-suited to.
#Zegnath-cite are just some classes to sprinkle into the HTML. Creating neat HTML while also sticking to specific citation styles is the real problem
#ZegnatThe h-cite, as I currently make them, does not actually contain all the information from the BibTeX, because I am not inventing any new h-cite properties
#jeremycherfashttp://researchblogging.org Quite a clever service for people who write (blog) about research. It creates citations that it can then scan for impact etc.
#jeremycherfasI suspect it may in fact be dying a long and lingering death.
#jeremycherfasSchemaorg has always been a bit too complex for me.
#ZegnatHalf the time I am just guessing when it comes to schema.org properties. Some seem way to broad, others way to specific, and at the end of the day I don’t know if anyone is even parsing them
#ZegnatI keep being thrown off by how splintered the landscape on this seems to be. Find something called “COinS”. Several websites publish it, several clients consume it, awesome! Where is the spec? Uuuh, somewhere on archive.org, good luck.
#sknebelI think rhiaro wrote a bunch of articles about citation/scholarly data markup with csarven and others too?
#ZegnatPossibly? Didn’t see anything linked on the mf wiki for citations, those were mostly just data and example collections
#sknebelI honestly don't think people have cared about extending the mf wiki for stuff like that in a while
#ZegnatNot enough academic bloggers concerning themselves with markup at the moment, possibly. Or at least not overlapping with mf/indieweb wikis
#jgmac1106thx for all the histroy all, yeah I lik mf2 over schema.org because it is so comprehensive the complexity made it impossible. I am hoping what [zegnat] and I are trying to do does marry the correct h-cite format with correctish APA/MLA citations. But [jeremycherfas] is rigth. Even if a journal uses APA fro submission thye may publish in their own style on paper
#Loqi[pietercolpaert] jekyll-refs: Bibliographic references in RDFa using the cito vocabulary
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#Zegnatjgmac1106, I feel like we should schedule a call and see what the end-goal should be. I am looking for interesting experiments and projects to buff my portfolio this summer anyway, and can totally throw some days of fulltime programming at it if there is a plan :)
#jgmac1106What do folks think is is better to recommend people present citation in plan HTML rather than using h-cite as well?
#ZegnatAs far as I am concerned, start with the plain HTML. You can always add the classes for h-cite later. Also note that, from skimming the citation microformats pages, h-cite was very much built on “how to cite online resources” and not much else (which explains the lack of page number properties and the like).
#ZegnatOnce you have the plain HTML, you can start thinking about consuming and extracting. Figure out what sort of classes you need there.
#jgmac1106[zegnat] sound slike a plan, and we can shape the project to help build your portfolio. Originally I just wanted an easy way to write citations for myself but now as I get close on my course templates, and I am seeing how an mf2 course generator could would
#jeremycherfasI'd be willing to sit in on a call if the timing suits. I think there are two things to separate, though. One is the kind of really fine-grained markup that allows different publishers to format citations differently. Another is a smaller set of markup that allows for good presentation in HTML AND the ability to extrract enough data to populate something like a databse.
#jgmac1106okay will write the plain html today and then subsitute in the BibTex classes
#jgmac1106agree [jeremycherfas] and my thinking is more for the alt pub crowd who may want to publish academic blogs and open courses
#jeremycherfasMost academics, though, will probably maintain some other kind of dedicated tool, and most of them can programatically find and extract publisher data given something to search for, be that DOI, Title, Authors etc etc.
#jgmac1106doing this bc I hate the big publishers and their PDF ways
#jeremycherfasIn fact, Bookends is absolutely brilliant at that, and has shared servers for data, and can scrape from PDFs.
#jgmac1106Agree but also thinking long term..if we get an influx of academics using IndieWeb tools with their students in a #DoOO envrionment we can have an indie layer for writign and researching on top
#jgmac1106Will go play with Bookends, I always used Menedley but stopped years ago
#jgmac1106My OG goal was an mf2 course and syllabus tempalte, then when writing h-cite APA I thought we could build something. A PHP citation tool could be a building block used in many different tools
#jgmac1106I am free all day today, Wed after 230 UTC. (I am -5 Greenwich) and all day Thursday Friday
#jeremycherfasNot that publisher's data should be considered reliable either. I have just seen "University of Pennsylvania, Philidelphia, PA 19104" in a highly-regarded journal.
#sketchessoh how interesting. you are running a vHWC, too. teaching related jgmac1106?
#jgmac1106Sketchess, I just like checking out where people live, once you get your connectivity issues sorted i can check out your blog, Also curious about nicknames, is it a sketch+ess, in a gendered way to say you are a top notch design person the community needs or is sket+chess, as a chess player which the world always needs more of, or probably most likely C none of the above
#jgmac1106kijnd of teacher related, I onboard folks through WordPress, when they hop on some vHWC they can get too complicated too quickly and beginners bale
#jgmac1106so all of my students eith have wordpress.com or wordpress.org blogs (depending on level) plus most of #eduTwitter is wordpress.org just trying to move them first to IndiewWeb values and then let them see how the plugins and tools empower our values
#sketchessmy nickname is first case. art design related + gender
#sketchessmy nickname is first case. art design related + gender
#jgmac1106i meant empowere principles. I unoficially call the three statements on indieweb.org as values, and then point to principles as ways to operationalize those values
#jgmac1106awesome [sketchess] been worklng with Jess Klien iamjessklein on Twittwr about brainstorming how we get more designers and and Amy Burvall 9@amyburvall on Twitter) about geeting artists into open source
#sketchessWell my project had to rest. I didn't change after IndieWebCamp in Berlin.
#jgmac1106I am trying (and getting there slowly) to leearn CSS Grid, I keep seeing all these cool things in my head I could never make on a machine but the more and more I learn about Grid the more attainable my brain farts might become
#sketchessI got here somehow and well I didn't leave since.
#sketchessOh I was just trying out html5 code. At that time I was not sure, how I exactly wanted to have things puzzled together.
#sketchessIt still is a journey heading to complete a vision.
#sketchessI have no ideas what it might become in the end. I just know somehow pieces of my puzzle.
#jgmac1106I keep toying with idea I shoul djust have a static html5 homepage and move blogging to a subdomain, possibly off of WordPress…but then I run itno not using the tool I tell all my students to use…and I get stuck back with WordPress
#sketchessDid you ever wished that you could show your minds thoughts or see the mind of others?
#ZegnatI wouldn’t know, I’ve never been tested for anything. Probably?
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#[mrkrndvs][jgmac1106] I have started some initial testing. However I do not usually use Bridgy Publish. Do you know why or how I change the url associated with posts sent out. Currently it is attaching my GitHub profile which is kind of annoying.
#sketchessI am more interested in neurountycial moring brains. But it would be great to have a reference.
#jgmac1106[mrkndvs] can you post a link and can we take this over to wordpress
#jgmac1106not sure anyone is nerotypical but I haven’t been tested for anything, probably would fail all adhd assessments but wouldn’t show up on any Autism spectrums.
#ZegnatNot really a indieweb topic. Maybe we should head over to the #indieweb-chat channel for discussing brains?
#jgmac1106probably left a few holes in my head over the years of exploring consceicness, was about to say the same [zegnat]
#Zegnatjeremycherfas, I think there is already an event page for this wednesday? That makes it easier, no need to create the pages and inter-page-links
#KartikPrabhuyes, I think adactio just takes mentions as "replies" i.e. displays the full post
#jgmac1106[zegnat] even after uninstall it remebered my audio set up and the server info, need to figure out how to delete for now going to skip the audio set uo part of tutorial