#indieweb 2018-08-13

2018-08-13 UTC
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[chrisaldrich] tantek, did Twitter every give you a concrete reason for them having blocked your account? The not knowing piece has to be the most fraught portion of the experience, particularly when it seems like you go through it every six months or so.
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@schmarty ↩️ @CharlieRoseMari @indieweb Thank you! Episode is up! https://twitter.com/schmarty/status/1028695497052250113 (twitter.com/_/status/1028833578610839553)
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[eddie] chrisaldrich: I think the real reason (that Twitter won’t admit to) is that they want him to add a phone number to his account. I think they have high suspicion on accounts without phone numbers
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Melody\Concerto2
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[chrisaldrich] [eddie] I think you're likely right, but I'm curious if they've said anything specific. Their policy for violations should be very specific so users know what the problem is so they can take care not to fall into the same issue in the future. Of course given that they regularly leave some violators alone is clear evidence that they only care for certain classes of people/bots/users.
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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jgmac1106 good morning
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jeremycherfas Loqi Make it stop
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[jgmac1106] wow g-d has a busier to do list than me..Hate to be her assistant
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Zegnat Sorry, I was on a coffee break. I have added that latest spam wave to the block list
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Zegnat I advice against attempting any ASCII art of your own. As I have also added part of the first line of that ...
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Zegnat s/advice/advise/
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[mrkrndvs] What is spam?
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Loqi spam is unsolicited content, often transmitted via email, submitted as blog comments or posted to popular wikis https://indieweb.org/spam
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jgmac1106 hey [mrkrndvs]
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I agree. Piggybacks well after our last working group meeting and then @indiewebcamp SF before #Dweb Believe in some kind of local node or geofencing. Local News saving local web and vice versa. Schools essential to this effort as well. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5920-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1028968270152515585)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ My theory: effort begins in  classroom and not  boardroom. Take learning standards more than web standards. To test  we are working on this #IES  proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rAk8tEZ_OHMjAJbBdrKFdktQI0sC6Lzrbt8eBuLt8yk/view (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5926-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1028972605469077505)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I think we have many tools in place. For example  only half joking when I could see webrings as being a simpler solution to “truth certification” new cert. Make a image saying “Grade A” only let in folks who meet community guidelines (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5928-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1028973674613878787)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ The open issue not solved for me is the semi-private post. I want to share to some folks in a distributed way either way but don’t want them to have to sign on read a post or enter in a password. Need private, public, and networked post. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5930-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1028974854870065158)
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@megarush1024 Twitter seems to be limiting the number of responses Bridgy can retrieve for a given post. I’m slightly disappointed but with the further API changes coming this week and Twitter’s arbitrary application of its own content rules I’m not sure I’ll miss it much. #indieweb #DeactiDay (twitter.com/_/status/1028974903599484929)
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cweiske !kick crayfishx19
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jackjamieson Good morning IndieWeb
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/peepee/status/1027906441045258241
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@peepee Test complete. RESULT: This site sucks ass (twitter.com/_/status/1027906441045258241)
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[kevinmarks] and its date
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[kevinmarks] see the previous tweet
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skippy ha!
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skippy 10,233 Retweets
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skippy 29,241 Likes
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jackjamieson !tell [eddie] I noticed a typo on your website: The application/rss+xml feed links to "https://eddiehnkle.com/feed.xml"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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skippy oh, that tweet is from Drew, from Toothpaste For Dinner. Well done, Drew.
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[kevinmarks] silo-quits << https://boingboing.net/2018/08/12/im-joining-the-campaign-to-d.html
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Loqi ok, I added "https://boingboing.net/2018/08/12/im-joining-the-campaign-to-d.html" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50853&oldid=50820
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[eddie] Thanks for the heads up jackjamieson. That also helped me realize, that isn’t even the right feed itself lol
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[eddie] Thanks jackjamieson, fixed!
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skippy https://skippy.net/note/2018/08/13/110834/
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Loqi If you’re joining the #DeactiDay movement, consider migrating to https://micro.blog.
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petermolnar is micro.blog self-hosted? if not, it really won't be any different in another 10 years, will it?
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aaronpk it's kind of self-hosted
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aaronpk i'm on micro.blog but my blog feeds into my micro.blog account
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aaronpk so i'm only using it for the social network discovery aspect
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petermolnar so it's a silo :P
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aaronpk not really
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aaronpk you can also point your domain to it, so that you're just using it as hosting
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Zegnat You can use your own domain for micro.blog hosted blogs too, right? And I think there was something about an export function (in the making?) that will let you export your entire micro.blog in static files (to GitHub? Jekyll..?)
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aaronpk if you are using it to host your site, either on *.micro.blog or your own domain, it's actually hosting static files for you and you can download that as an export at any time
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petermolnar I'd love to make people understand that the problem is not with a particular silo, it's never one particular silo, it's silo-as-a-service itself
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aaronpk so it kind of falls into its own category that doesn't quite map to existing silo models
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skippy m.b is silo-ish, yes. but the explicit lack of follower counts and popularity features is a stark contrast from Twitter. Will it suck in 10 years? Maybe; but at least Manton is going in with some intention and forethought to the matter.
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petermolnar don't get me wrong, every action to ease the issues with the current social network is good
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petermolnar but
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petermolnar silos tend to have this issue of feature creep
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skippy and while we here may consider it "easy" to self host, siloes offer conveniences that a lot of people favor.
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skippy discovery and the network effect make silos "stickier" and easier.
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petermolnar that convenience is one of the core problems imo
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petermolnar it's too easy, too simple
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[jgmac1106] I decided to join micro.blog but I participate from my own domain as well. It is open enough, no problem with proprietary software built on open standards
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skippy making it "hard" to participate in online social interactions doesn thelp solve the core problems. :(
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petermolnar not hard
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petermolnar just to require some minimal effort, reading a few lines, etc
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skippy ad-based funding for "free" products does more to drive bad decision making than msot other things...
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[jgmac1106] ....but if you want folks doing IndieWeb what's the alternative....use WordPress and maybe have things work 37.4% of the time, use Known but learn how to download a git rep, set up a mysql database, and push through ftp, or teach yourself how to build your own CMS so then you can make fun of it when you switch to an SSG?
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[jgmac1106] @skippy I don't think it was just ad-based revenue, needing to seek the returns LPs need had more to do with bad adtech than advertisement
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skippy most people dont want to manage their data. they want to use a service to perform a task (write, communicate, whatever). we need to be respectful of what they want to do, and why.
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skippy [jgmac1106]: "LPs" ?
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petermolnar [jgmac1106]: valid issues, true. The WP plugins need love, maybe even a rethinking of the approach; however, spinning up a WP site is not hard in 2018. Yes, you need something, but there are ready-made instances for WP even on Amazon: https://aws.amazon.com/getting-started/tutorials/launch-a-wordpress-website/
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[jgmac1106] limited partner....the people with the money....general partner...people who spend other people's money investing in venture
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petermolnar or digitalocean: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-the-wordpress-one-click-install-on-digitalocean (yes, it needs you to ssh in, one time, and that's it)
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[jgmac1106] yep....Why I am sticking to WordPress even though I can't send webmentions....its how you onboard folks
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petermolnar why can you not send webmentions?
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[jgmac1106] nobody knows...maybe a timeout on the curl test
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petermolnar sometimes I feel like I need to revive my alternative wordpress webmentions plugin I abandoned a while ago
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[jgmac1106] I have to do every webmention I send manually, unless I use Bridgy, then they work
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petermolnar that's far from ideal
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[jgmac1106] we will get there...there are few people who just launched from their own domain, almost everyone onboarded through livejournal, moveable type, typepad, myspace etc.....expecting users to go from 0 to 60 (no domain to self hosted) isn't realistic
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Reincarnate11 ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­
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skippy maybe i'll finally sign up to a Mastodon instance.
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[jgmac1106] @petermolnar the new scuttlebutt is to try and move away from the unsustainable "we have three themes" to using a rel="alternate" and double ack--- a side file, so we can play nice with more themes
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[jgmac1106] the me not sending webmentions is something very unique to my instance and my shared host, my hosting company, and folks around here can't figure it out
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[chrisaldrich] This article about how Mastodon attempts to fix some of the problems of Twitter was interesting: https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2018/07/cage-the-mastodon/
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], scuttlebutt themes?
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dougbeal What is scuttlebutt
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Loqi Secure Scuttlebutt is a P2P system to sync message feeds, used to build (among others) social applications that work in off-grid/sneakernet scenarios https://indieweb.org/scuttlebutt
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[jgmac1106] sorry the scuttlebutt (rumors) is
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[jgmac1106] slang my apologies
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Zegnat Hahaha, I thought you were refering to the software :P
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Loqi haha
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skippy anyone running their own Mastodon instance here? How easy?
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@endonend #DeactiDay and embracing IndieWeb: https://www.endonend.org/2018/08/13/deactiday-and-embracing-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1029063737955831809)
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[chrisaldrich] skippy, it seems like there's at least one person, but I don't see anyone on the /Mastodon page. Most are working towards federating with it directly.
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[chrisaldrich] Ran across an interesting site that does /RSVP that also has /facepile feature in the wild this morning: https://openeducation2016.sched.com/event/7loW/open-but-not-for-criticism
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[chrisaldrich] What is Sched?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Sched" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Sched is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[chrisaldrich] Sched is a paid [[event]]-based [[silo]] that allows attendees to easily [[RSVP]] for events on the service. https://sched.com/
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove Sched is nice, especially with many events. Used it for SXSW Music.
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[chrisaldrich] It does have a rather nice looking scheduling functionality as well so that you can pick/choose which sub-events at a larger conference you're attending and gives users a nice UI to be able to follow a particular schedule.
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[chrisaldrich] What is schedule?
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Loqi scheduling in the context of the indieweb, refers to the feature of setting a specific time for a post to be published in the future https://indieweb.org/Schedule
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[chrisaldrich] Not sure I do the *other* scheduling function enough to be worth even thinking about building it....
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[chrisaldrich] Though this doesn't mean it isn't a cool feature.
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anttih Yo! Do you know why https://micropublish.net is sending the slug as mp-slug? It so happens that I'm using https://github.com/voxpelli/node-format-microformat for formatting the micropub document I get from the client and I end up with mf-mp-slug :D All I want is just "slug".
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[chrisaldrich] I do have a time sorted list of upcoming events I display in a widget of my front page though....
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KartikPrabhu anttih: because "slug" is not a microformats property, it is only used by micropub
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voxpelli anttih: open an issue in my repo and I’ll try to look at it when I find some time
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anttih I'm pretty sure this is not a bug, maybe just something I need to configure somewhere.
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gRegorLove What is calendar?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "calendar" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "calendar is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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anttih But I have to say, thanks voxpelli for your libraries, I manages to post my first micropub post today in a few hours.
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voxpelli anttih: great to hear! Thanks for sharing :)
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anttih So I guess if micropublish is sending the slug as mp-slug, I will have to rewrite it to "slug" before formatting with format-microformat. There is no other way.
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anttih voxpelli: I think webpage-micropub-to-github could so something about this slug thing after all? https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions
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anttih *do
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voxpelli anttih: it sure can do something with it, so should format-microformat I think, but currently probably neither does
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anttih Yeah, not sure who's resposibility it is
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anttih I mean, which library
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anttih maybe format-microformat
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@swentel ↩️ Interesting, been active with #indieweb tech/philosophy lately .. need to read up on this and see if they connect :) (twitter.com/_/status/1029100248562642944)
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@call_user_func [New]indieweb/wordpress-mf2-feed provides a Microformats2 JSON Feed for every WordPress URL. https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-mf2-feed (twitter.com/_/status/1029112896746188801)
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@jgmac1106 @Downes@mastodon.social We were just messing with rss and OStatus in the IndieWeb WordPress channel today..glad to see others connect to the fediverse through rss (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5938-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1029113608377167872)
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@AngeloStavrow ✍️ And We’re Back: https://angelostavrow.com/post/and-were-back/ It’s probably not 100% there, but the custom theme for my personal site is finally live. I’d like to add webmentions at some point, but it’s otherwise 100% IndieWeb compatible. (twitter.com/_/status/1029114520457945088)
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[jgmac1106] ...well looks like I still need to find a Mastodon instance to call home: https://scholar.social/@socrates/100545025907306331
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[jgmac1106] They do not allow public syndication......
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sknebel That appears to be a private link?
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@jgmac1106 I am looking for another Mastodon instance. It seems owning your data and publishing from your own domain violates the policies of the https://scholar.social. Any ideas where I should hang? #DoOO #IndieWeb #literacies #digped (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5947-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1029120844314959873)
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aaronpk heh
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[jgmac1106] ...I wonder how that works...a private url that only I can see but when you visit you get no page.
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sknebel you're logged in probably?
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aaronpk yeah some things return 404 when logged out or not allowed to see it, to avoid leaking that there is actually content there
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[jgmac1106] yes of course...I just dream of the day of semi-private post I can share with folks with some magical IndieAuth way
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sknebel you can present an indieauth login (or an indie-action for login, although that's not really used yet) instead of an error page if you want :D
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Zegnat Hmm, do you have a URL to their policies? Could document the wording they use so people know what to look out for when signing up for a place they want to POSSE to.
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Zegnat Aah. Got it. “Accounts that automatically repeat a Twitter account, RSS feed, etc. must post to Scholar Social as Unlisted, not Public” - https://scholar.social/about/more
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aaronpk ah that is pretty common from what i've seen
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Zegnat Common enough to be worth documenting as a POSSE on Mastodon note?
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aaronpk yes probably
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skippy whats the driver for that policy, if it's commonplace?
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aaronpk i think it's based on wanting people to be more thoughtful about what they put in mastodon
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skippy i see.
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aaronpk rather than just shadowing the same content that's on twitter
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[jgmac1106] I was told to avoid fragmented conversation...but I choose when I share to what network...except micro.blog everything goes there because adding rss only way to syndicate
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skippy i've been thinking a lot about dissemination, discovering, and following. the encouragement of "follow" as an action on silos is, for me at least, a bit of a non-starter. just because someone reposts something good (funny, whatver) that you wrote doesn't mean I want to follow all subsequent things you write.
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skippy yet some people seem to do exactly that; which boggles my mind.
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Zegnat tag feeds always feel like an answer to me. If I even want to follow you, I can try and filter what I want to follow from you.
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Zegnat But silos are very much an all-or-nothing deal. This is why people might have multiple accounts on silos. I know of a number of YouTubers with multiple channels, because they realise they will lose subscribers if they throw too much stuff on one channel
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skippy i need to button up my micropub server to more fully support the spec; and then tackle webmentions.
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skippy or just decide to be an Internet hermit and give up chasing interactions. :)
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aaronpk POSNO
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aaronpk publish once, syndicate nowhere
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skippy A+ WOULD NEVER FIND AGAIN
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petermolnar POSNO, lol
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petermolnar goes well with PASTA
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[jgmac1106] What is Posno?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Posno" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Posno is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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@Mister_Ayyye Nose-diving off the LMS train this semester. Hope the acrobatic training comes in handy. #DoOO #indieweb #digped #hybridpedagogy #CI149 (twitter.com/_/status/1029131497461112832)
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@jgmac1106 Back here on http://mastodon.social since http://scholar.social is so hostile to owning toots from your own Domain. Put in an application for http://social.coop If I am going to find #IndieWeb values on fediverse probably there (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5953-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1029134748009095168)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Been doing #IndieWeb in  my classes since 2015. first year having students build out from #DoOO rather than @withknown or http://wordpress.com May like this a course template with proper(ish??) microformats soon to have webmention powered badges (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5955-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1029135012107612160)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Earl, If you can scrape up the travel funds, wash a Dean’s car or something, try to make it to @IndieWebCamp NYC https://indieweb.org/2018/NYC. Gonna be a lot of us #DoOO folk trying to bring the values and tools to classrooms (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5960-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1029137308509982720)
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@Mister_Ayyye ↩️ Looks pretty dope. Seems that virtual presence/participation also possible? I mean, would love to take a trip back east, but in case the car wash falls through... (twitter.com/_/status/1029137851789656064)
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snarfed FYI all, we're deprecating the #bridgy IRC channel due to lack of use. feel free to ask q's here instead, or dev q's in #-dev!
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Not  #DoOO either. Just said, in eight years of teaching I have never made a class buy a book. I am asking you to spend $40 to write yourself on the world Yeah #IndieWeb as the best remote options. Part of conference not just consuming stream (http://jgregorymcverry.com/5964-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1029150501378633730)
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