#indieweb 2018-10-09

2018-10-09 UTC
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[jgmac1106] https://twitter.com/knightfdn/status/1047823347394994176
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@knightfdn 1/ How did misinformation spread during the 2016 presidential election and has anything changed since? A new study explores more than 10M tweets from 700K Twitter accounts that linked to more than 600 misinformation & conspiracy news outlets. https://kf.org/misinfo #knightcomm (twitter.com/_/status/1047823347394994176)
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[jgmac1106] and @holden's response: https://twitter.com/holden/status/1049301617948811266
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@holden Some thoughts on these findings and #misinfolit. First, #3 is pretty important: "Sixty-five percent of fake and conspiracy news links during the election went to just the 10 largest sites." https://twitter.com/knightfdn/status/1047823347394994176 (twitter.com/_/status/1049301617948811266)
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[jgmac1106] I am getting signed in and out of bridgy right now, very strange,
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vyoma hello all
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gRegorLove Hi vyoma
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vyoma I have a quick question. From what I understand, IndieWeb is a drive to primarily host your own content and participate in conversations with each other.
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vyoma However, are there any protocols which would enable communities or forums to be formed? (Silo examples - Google's circles, Facebook's groups, etc)
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vyoma Hi gRegorLove :)
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gRegorLove At least one community member is experimenting with an indieweb, sort-of reddit: indieweb.xyz
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tantek what is a group?
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Loqi group in the context of the indieweb (also "indie group" or "indie groups") is a place where people can deliberately share content with each other, not necessarily on their own domain (though likely copied from via webmention etc.) https://indieweb.org/group
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vyoma tantek - well, I just hopped over from a discussion at Google+ group where we were contemplating 'where to go next with Google+ shutting down?'
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vyoma I then realized, the basic premise for a community/group/circle (around a particular topic) is quite similar to the personal web presence that IndieWeb seems to address.
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vyoma gRegorLove let me check that out
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gRegorLove It's more of a link aggregator, using webmentions. news.indieweb.org is similar.
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[tantek] Welcome vyoma!
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[tantek] Topic based “groups” are essentially solved with hashtags in posts and reader channels that aggregate them
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[tantek] The harder challenges are the social / private groups
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jeremycherfas Jgmac1106++ For being Google’s Czar Of Re-education.
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Loqi Jgmac1106 has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (64 in all channels)
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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Ruxton morning :)
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Zegnat Any fun projects going on, Ruxton?
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Ruxton nah if it was fun I'd finish it :P
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sl007 @jgmac1106 agreed. https://plus.google.com/communities/112164273001338979772 is better than big data ;)
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[kevinmarks] Silo quit? https://elgan.com/blog/social-networking-is-dead
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sknebel good morning!
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Zegnat [kevinmarks], I think this is quote worthy from that link: “I'll still appear to be on various social sites. But after they've been using me for years, now I'm using them. I'm going to use Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to drive traffic to elgan.com, and not engage much there. ”
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Zegnat Sounds a lot like the mantra behind things like POSSE. Those websites are there for you to reach out to folks in those networks, not per se to be the place all the engagement is happening.
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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sknebel morning!
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jeremycherfas Is there a way to scrape the comments on an IG post by someone else?
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jeremycherfas Apparently this https://ninja-copy.com/blog-posts/how-can-we-export-comments-from-instagram will do it, but requires Telegram.
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jeremycherfas Oh,. You can just copy and paste. Doesn't give you links or anything, but that's OK. I should look at page source, I suppose.
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[jgmac1106] [kevinmarks] Goole+ quit Mike Elgan, not the other way around...msut be a meme of him shouting "Google+ I can't quit you" somewhere
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sknebel jeremycherfas: granary might be able to
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jeremycherfas I'll take a look.
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[jgmac1106] a webring is the closest thing IMO right now to group an indieweb....until someone cracks the semi-private share when I can publish a post seen only by people who ahve the same group affiliation in their h-card
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[jgmac1106] morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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jacky morning morning
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Zegnat That sounds pretty hard to do in a decentralised way, [jgmac1106]. Of course, just following tags is already hard.
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[jgmac1106] I will never rely on humans to tag, fails every time, especially with new users
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[jgmac1106] ...grrrr I lost last two months of my to-do list only 7/4-7/9 left, one week and no revision history, just gone....will try to poke around in database but that sucks
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Zegnat Tagging is hard. I do like how link silos like Pinboard can make for communal tagging.
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Zegnat I think I talked about that in Brighton. If you share links on your blog, you could use Pinboard’s API to pull in suggested tags. Obviously that is limited to the same link having been saved to Pinboard and tagged, but was an interesting concept.
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[jgmac1106] hypothes.is as well is driven by community tags, and hashtags work...its just tagging post...easiest solution would be recognize hashtag in a post and turn it into a tag
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Zegnat I think some people here might already support “hashtags” that way on their own sites.
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Zegnat What is a tag?
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Loqi tags or tagging refers to categorizing or labeling content, your own or others (tag-reply), with words, phrases, names, or other information, optionally linked to specific people, events, locations, such as the practice of tagging posts being about certain people (person-tag), like tagging people or other items where (area-tag) they're depicted in a photo https://indieweb.org/tag
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[jgmac1106] I think Known does as well, will know, almost ready to start hard part of migration, though I am tempted to just put my current site at archive.jgregorymcverry.com and not even worry about porting over all the post and comments to Known
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Zegnat Why not do both?
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[kevinmarks] I meant that in response to the site death, Mike decided to quit all silos.
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jacky what is tag
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Loqi tags or tagging refers to categorizing or labeling content, your own or others (tag-reply), with words, phrases, names, or other information, optionally linked to specific people, events, locations, such as the practice of tagging posts being about certain people (person-tag), like tagging people or other items where (area-tag) they're depicted in a photo https://indieweb.org/tag
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jacky does anyone know of an algorithmic way to extract tags from a post? I did consider doing it myself but yeah humans are kinda crappy with it
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jacky the only thing I could think of it is extracting proper nouns or synonyms from a text and suggesting them as one types
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[jgmac1106] http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/10/09/indieweb-virtual-meetup-google-diaspora
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[jgmac1106] Play with LinkedIn if you are on it....granted have a few more engineering sources than you, but their hashtag recommendation engine is suprisingly good
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petermolnar from mike's entry (https://elgan.com/blog/google-is-the-new-yahoo): "And I can't even imagine what will happen when Google decides to kill Google Photos." I can. I remember Picasa.
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Zegnat That reminds me. Mum needs to grab one of my portable harddrives and copy all of her father’s photos. He is keeping them all in an ancient local Picasa installation. If anything happens to that laptop history disappears.
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[Rose] Can I suggest more than one drive? 😛
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Zegnat We have a QNAP NAS for backups, so once we got it off of his, that’s where those are going
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[Rose] Nice
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Zegnat Sadly we haven’t done online backup in over a year now …
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[Rose] 😞
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petermolnar Zegnat: have a NAS at each family member, connect them with openvpn, sync them manually or with rare cronjobs
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petermolnar that covers offsite backups, though the vpn might pose a security risk
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[Rose] I still have a 3TB Time Capsule which is going string, but I need to look at alternatives
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Zegnat Sure. As soon as we aren’t depended on limited 3G data per month ;)
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petermolnar rsync can limit speed and continue from the last sync
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petermolnar (though zfs send/receive is more efficient, but that can't be easily limited)
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Zegnat First backup would have to happen in batches over multiple months. We only have 300GB/month. By the time backups are done by that schedule we hope to have fibre in place
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[kevinmarks] @jacky there are tag extraction tools like http://www.opencalais.com that have some known structures
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jacky interesting
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Anchakor I wish there was a nonprofit providing free domain and DNS servers for everyone
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Zegnat Probably put the GitHub links in #indieweb-dev, we try to keep this channel clear of code talk
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Zegnat But you are more than welcome to share your tools!
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fourtonfish Thank you!
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petermolnar Anchakor: digitalocean, while not nonprofit, offers free dns service and they have a good API
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petermolnar I use it as dynamic dns for my family
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[jgmac1106] @anchakor I was talking to George Roter who works for the Mozilla Corporation about doing a DNS sponsorship fun raiser. Like Sally Struthers for the web, "just $. 0.50 a day can provide a url to these children"
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[jgmac1106] Or a matching donation of give Mozilla $10 and we will donate a DNS to someone in the world for a year
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[jgmac1106] ... Oops sorry for random American cultural reference to early infomercial about ending childhood hunger
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[jgmac1106] .... And for equating DNS to famine relief
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Old_Man Anchakor, a fairly promising network effort to work around the need for centralized (and money-driven) domain names and DNS, appears to be taking shape in "cjdns."
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Loqi Old_Man: [kevinmarks] left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: you might find https://indieweb.org/Dat more indieweb friendly than IPFS
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Anchakor [jgmac1106]: the analogies are not really off, I was thinking about this in context of how can people in 3rd world countries afford the indieweb alternative to centralized-silo social networks...
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Anchakor a reliable internet indentifier (such as domain) would be nice to have as a human right :)
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Anchakor Old_Man: I'll have to read up on that, sounds interesting. kind like lower level IPFS?
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Old_Man Very loosely, yes. It's an IPv6 network that uses DHT for routing.
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Old_Man And the cool part is that it uses private key hashes for addresses, so address assignment need not be centralized.
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Old_Man That works similarly to Tor hidden service addresses.
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Anchakor I'm skeptical of the hash based IDs for longevity, I think it's likely much of the current crypto will be broken in 100 years
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Anchakor I guess some human-managed hierarchical organization would still be necessary for establishing and maintaining such building blocks
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jacky I mean a century is a long time
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Zegnat DHT, IPv6, Crypto, ... I think of this conversation needs to carry on that's better done #indieweb-dev :)
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Zegnat s/of/if/
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[jgmac1106] Yeah if I can scrape together the funds for IndieWeb Berlin I am going to give a talk about Learning and Leadership in Open Source spaces and why "DNS for the rest of us" is essential to this goal
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gRegorLove_ Good morning #indieweb
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sknebel good morning gRegorLove!
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jgmac1106_ morning gRegorLove
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snarfed jeremycherfas: yes, granary can scrape IG comments. bridgy uses that to backfeed IG. (cc sknebel)
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jeremycherfas From other people’s accounts?
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snarfed ...? i don't quite follow. granary can fetch (scrape) all comments on any public post
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[jgmac1106] is there anyway webmentions can be hooked up to blogger? even externally? got a few questions on Google+
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[jgmac1106] fascinating to watch 1,000s of educators go, "O Snap what do we do now?"
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snarfed [jgmac1106]: yup, bridgy does that. https://brid.gy/about#blogs
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snarfed btw [jgmac1106] apologies for the bridgy trouble. looking at your recent publish attempts on https://brid.gy/twitter/jgmac1106#publishes , i don't actually see the errors you saw. publish is definitely enabled for your account. it got a number of 403s and timeouts from your site, but otherwise it seems happy. not sure what's up, other than maybe the wp plugin.
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jgmac1106_ yeah, it was a weird login thing for a few hours, got it sorted. I sometime get stuck in this weird sign up loop….just another hash in the why its time to get off WordPress column
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[jgmac1106] here is a thread from an admin of a group I consider most active only 5K members but a few hundred active weekly users, a lot for G+ https://plus.google.com/+LynHilt/posts/h4YGf8WxNMJ
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jgmac1106_ by comparison the Google in Education group has 270,000 but only 1k or so active
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jeremycherfas Thanks snarfed. I didn’t realise it could do that.
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jmac This displays an interesting edge-case for how to display Webmentions I've run into recently: http://fogknife.com/2018-03-27-i-read-the-overneath.html#mentions
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jmac Those mentions are all unique, and all trace back to a publisher's bot that tweets fresh links to blog posts that mention its books
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aaronpk why are they tweeting the same thing over and over?
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jmac It's just an ICYMI. Except automated and looping forever, once every few weeks.
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk i have a similar but different problem when one of my posts ends up on hackernews, all the HN bots tweet similar things that mention the post
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[kevinmarks] Love this What is Voldemorting? The Ultimate SEO Diss - Wired https://nzzl.us/EpR6ksd via @nuzzel
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