#indieweb 2018-10-08

2018-10-08 UTC
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tantek__ https://usesthis.com/ is a cool site with interviews of people and the stuff they use to get things done. I wonder what the indieweb equivalent would be called
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aaronpk I have a page like that which I keep up to date, rather than being a snapshot in time like those posts
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aaronpk mine is called "Life Stack" https://aaronparecki.com/life-stack/
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tantek__ I wonder if there is value in both
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aaronpk I linked to a few other similar pages from various people, trying to find any similarities in naming
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aaronpk "tools" seems to be the common thread
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tantek__ I see Eddie calls it "using"
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aaronpk e.g. "tools I use"
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aaronpk the description on mine even includes "tools"
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tantek__ as does Matt Gemmell
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tantek__ I'm looking at the slug first
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tantek__ as does Jason Rodriguez - but 404
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tantek__ "The Cramped" calls it "What We Use"
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tantek__ at slug what-we-use
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tantek__ tools is incomplete as people mention services as well, whereas "tools" often implies physical
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tantek__ (though obv in context things like "dev tools" are software)
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tantek__ using is close enough
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tantek__ what is using?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "using" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "using is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ using is the name of an authoring and/or publishing application, or can also be a page of tools and services that someone uses or likes to use. IndieWeb Example: https://aaronparecki.com/life-stack/ (see inside for links to more examples near the bottom), site dedicated to interviews of individuals and what they are using: https://usesthis.com/
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Loqi ok
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tantek__ aaronpk, I appreciate both the "most of up to date" version and also the interviews snapshots in time
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tantek__ if it were a kind of post then # using could be hashtag for them all
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tantek__ I suppose the posts would/could be when you put something into use, and when you abandoned it (what you call "Graveyard")
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tantek__ then your life-stack page could be automatically generated from those posts
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tantek__ what is life-stack
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "life-stack" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "life-stack is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ life-stack is /using
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Loqi ok
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tantek__ using << Brainstorming: If you posted about when you started using something (put it into regular use), and also when you stopped using something (perhaps related, was replaced by something you started using?) then you could automate building a "currently using" page like aaronpk's https://aaronparecki.com/life-stack/. Such "started using" posts are essentially a form of strongly positive [[review]]. Perhaps a review with hashtag "u
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Loqi ok, I added "Brainstorming: If you posted about when you started using something (put it into regular use), and also when you stopped using something (perhaps related, was replaced by something you started using?) then you could automate building a "currently using" page like aaronpk's https://aaronparecki.com/life-stack/. Such "started using" posts are essentially a form of strongly positive [[review]]. Perhaps a review with hashtag "u" to a brand new "See Also" section of /using https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=52637&oldid=52635
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aaronpk hm, I actually do put little notes with dates on things that go into my "graveyard" section
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tantek__ so you sorta have stuff/service retirement posts
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tantek__ they're just in a list in the graveyard section
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aaronpk oh and I did do a post in january with the things I added then
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aaronpk like a separate blog post even
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tantek__ I wonder how much I could reconstruct retroactively
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tantek__ I've definitely gone through some interesting things (Ricochet modems)
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sknebel good morning!
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[Vincent] Good morning Indieweb
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[Rose] Hello!
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[eddie] Morning, all!
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jeremycherfas Morning all
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swentel wow, you're up early [eddie] .. :)
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[eddie] Haha #DadLife
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[Rose] Kids do work wonders as alarm clocks I've been told
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swentel aaah
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swentel right
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[eddie] Yep 🙂
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[eddie] swentel, I’d be interested in any info you have on your Drupal talk coming up. I’m going to submit an IndieWeb talk proposal to DrupalCamp NJ for this winter
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[eddie] Speaking of, when is your DrupalCamp happening?
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swentel [eddie], the slides will be available online
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swentel november 23
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swentel I'm going to share them here before, for some review
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[eddie] Sweet! 👍 perfect
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swentel so that I don't mention any stupid things about indieweb :)
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[eddie] lol I’m sure you won’t 🙂 but it is great to be able to get feedback from everyone around here. Great ideas abound in these chat rooms
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swentel well, it might be subtle details, I'm only here for about 5 months now, although I /think/ I understand most concepts by now
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swentel implementing specs always helps of course
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[eddie] Yeah, you’ve jumped in quickly 🙂 definitely feels like you’ve been here longer than 5 months!
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swentel yeah, I looked at the preview video of indigenous from 4 months ago
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swentel my god, how it has evolved already
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[eddie] Lol yeah you’ve got some awesome progress.
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[chrisburnell] Good morning Indieweb 🙂
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[eddie] Hey [chrisburnell]
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jeremycherfas Hello [chrisburnell]
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swentel yeah, the really major thing I want to tackle is still the html parsing
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swentel and then caching, but not sure yet how to handle
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swentel thinking about using a local db
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swentel since I use one now for the drafts
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[eddie] swentel: seems like we’re headed into #indieweb-dev territory now 👍 so I’m writing a response over there
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swentel yeah right :)
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[kevinmarks] !tell Old_Man you might find https://indieweb.org/Dat more indieweb friendly than IPFS
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] got kicked from my computer so Ben could record: http://dogzone.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/dog-days-episode-two-the-blue-heeler
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skippy good morning.
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Loqi *yawn* ... /stretch/
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jacky o/
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Zegnat \o
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[Rose] Loqi is very... random
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[Rose] In a good way
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sl007 The time has come to add google+ to https://indieweb.org/site-deaths – R.I.P. - really had great experiences and engagements with some of my 1600 followers. Will miss it. https://9to5google.com/2018/10/08/google-plus-shutting-down/ and off course they call it a feature https://www.blog.google/technology/safety-security/project-strobe/
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aaronpk checks the date
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aaronpk nope this is not april
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[jgmac1106] though only consumer facing...the keeping it for enterprise is interesting play, hoping somebody writes a business book about the Google+ expperiment, rise of local search, realizing we don't need a social netowrk for local search with everyone having a tracker in their pocket
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[jgmac1106] ..,,and I swear the number of years old webmentions I am getting coming in from Google+ has to be a part of this....many are folks on institutional instances
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sl007 The google+ data breach affected 500.000 users. None of us was informed by google : officially evil.
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[jgmac1106] yes, there I agree
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aaronpk they do say the bug was never taken advantage of
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aaronpk and by “shutting down” they mean slowly turning off over the next 10 months
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aaronpk so this really reads more like they found a bad bug and aren’t willing to invest the resources to fix it so they are shutting it down rather than continuing to maintain the software
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sl007 With the new EU laws in affect I will go to the local police tomorrow to report a crime regarding google. That will be fun.
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[kiai] hello indieweb
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tantek__ also another example of a well funded bigco actually failing to keep your private data private
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[Rose] Good evening
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[kiai] @sl007 are you on haveibeenpwned.com?
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[kiai] Hello Rose. What time zone are you in?
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[kiai] It's morning here in the left coast of north america
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[Rose] Central European Summer Time
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[kiai] I was thinking about making a plugin or something that would send me to the 3rd page of Google search results.
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[kiai] I often find what I'm looking for on the 3rd page
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[kiai] Anyone know of a CSS venting channel? (rhetorical question) I want to vent about bad media queries on multiple stylesheets pointing to the same element. !@#$%&*
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[kiai] ok. i've vented. back to cleaning up poorly executed wordpress theme.
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sl007 how could haveibeenpwned.com have info on the breach if even google is unable to identify affected users ?
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[kiai] haveibeenpwned will let you know if your data has been made public.
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[jgmac1106] [kiai] keep building up the media queries skills on WP, wonder if you can help @gwg who has been working on media endpoints in micropub... head to /wordpress to learn more
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GWG Media Endpoint and Media Queries are different
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[jgmac1106] that's why [kiai] should help you and not me...I figure the query asks the db for stuff and then displays it...the endpoint gets the media in the db
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KartikPrabhu [jgmac1106]: media queries are a CSS feature and have nothing to do with the backend
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[kiai] no database connection with queries
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[kiai] just browser stuff
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[jgmac1106] @sl007 I like a lot of the other stuff announced in same blog post: https://www.cbinsights.com/research/walmart-patent-biometric-shopping-cart/
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[jgmac1106] ...ooooh those media queries
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[kiai] 🙂
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[jgmac1106] with WordPress...yeah good luck with that with every plugin styling and injecting classes at will
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[kiai] I don't use plugins for that. I make children and rip the CSS apart
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GWG Exactly. Media Queries are a css thing
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[kiai] Sometimes plugins can't fix CSS if the CSS is all over the place. The theme I'm working on has half a dozen stylesheets. Fortunately, I only need 2 of them.
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[jgmac1106] without getting to devy I am working on them actually right now for my homepage...trying to get my nav menu way I like
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[kiai] DevTools are your friend... ironically a Google product
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[jgmac1106] nahhh...css Grid in Firefox dev edition better
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[jgmac1106] Grid inspector between the two very similar but I find the UI easier in FF dev versus devtools
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[jgmac1106] personal opinion
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KartikPrabhu now this is getting "devy"
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[kiai] hehehe
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[kevinmarks] If they shut down Google+ can they go back to server rendered profile pages with rel=me on?
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tantek__ good day #indieweb!
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gRegorLove o/ tantek__
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tantek__ gRegorLove: do you ever post about the tools/services you use?
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gRegorLove Not on a "using" page like others have, but I've considered it
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tantek__ I realize that despite not having a "using" page myself either, I have posted "what I packed" photos with everything laid out, which is another sort of "using" (while traveling)
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tantek__ e.g. http://tantek.com/2015/345/t1/dolphin-fountain-mozlando
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Dolphin Fountain just after checking in for #Mozlando Monday night. #waltdisneyworld #latergram #nofilter https://scontent-mia1-1.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/e35/12292826_439100172949631_662615083_n.jpg
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tantek__ oops no this one, sorry I must of flipped to an adjacent post: http://tantek.com/2015/345/t2/packed-days-mozlando-fits-boblbee
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] What I packed for 5 days of #Mozlando. Everything fits into the #Boblbee backpack top right. All clothing fits into the re-purposed Puma shoe bag. I only brought four t-shirts (including yes a green (non-black) t-shirt) knowing I would acquire at l... https://scontent-sjc3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/e399ad3feafbb929ffa9e006344ba61d/5AEC2A2F/t51.2885-15/e35/12362644_1726574947577512_216440793_n.jpg
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tantek__ also made me think about rhiaro's acquisition posts, as they may help track approximately when you started using something
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snarfed hey [jgmac1106], re the bridgy G+ webmentions you've received recently from people on enterprise (g suite) accounts, mind adding an example or two to https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/846 ?
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Loqi [snarfed] #846 August 2019: turn off Google+?
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snarfed (also just fyi, no, the new G+ comments etc that bridgy has recently found are unrelated to the G+ bug they announced today)
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tantek__ Hey snarfed! Yes the bug they announce made me think of you and our discussions about bigcos and privacy & security
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snarfed oh boy
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snarfed yeah lots of this is definitely disappointing!
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snarfed lack of disclosure, poor security eng practices and review around ACLs, etc
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tantek yeahhhh
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snarfed also worth remembering that "how secure" is shades of gray with a huge spectrum, not black and white, and nothing is 100% secure. in general google's security (or FB, Amazon, etc) will still be worlds better than the average indieweb person singlehandedly administering their own VM
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tantek it's more the privacy failure due to bad API design etc.
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tantek I have no doubt the actual security of those APIs is fine :)
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snarfed also worth distinguishing security (ie unintentional bugs and breaches) from business practices (ie intentional abuses, product policies, etc)
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snarfed huh my interpretation was that this was a bug, not bad design
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snarfed but semantics to some degree at least
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tantek I'm assuming any public announcements about this kind of thing are filtered by GDPR-aware laywers at this point
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tantek It smells like bad design
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[kiai] Just learned that Cloudflare is launching the world's first no-markup domain registrar. https://dash.cloudflare.com/domains
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[jgmac1106] [snarfed] one could hope Rachel from the data liberation front was amazed when I showed her all the teacher spaces and described how folks retreated to G+ because noone was there and the granular control
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[jgmac1106] ! Tell swentel you built something awesome when indigineous is now the second or third app I install..
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dougbeal|mb1 I wonder how hard transfer out will be
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tantek [jgmac1106]: I wonder if the edu/teacher spaces will stay around in G+ because they may be more like enterprise setups?
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dougbeal What is Cloudflare
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Loqi CloudFlare is a service to, in their own words, "supercharge your website" https://indieweb.org/CloudFlare
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Zegnat That domains link is js;dr
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tantek Zegnat, that's pretty ironic. screenshot and add it to /js;dr ?
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Zegnat My setup doesn’t lend itself well for screenshots, as I also block images and css, haha
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dougbeal react
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Zegnat Huh. Even my webarchiver, which executes JS, can’t seem to cache that page correctly :/ https://wiki.zegnat.net/cache/?md5=5e38f95be44a87565397c1be11b1c128
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dougbeal React isn't the direct road to inaccesibility, but it sure seems to pave a lot ;/
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vilhalmer forces the cars to lay down the pavement as they go
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sknebel haha, the encoded styles in the cached version freak the firefox console out
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sknebel (at least I suspect it's that)
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dougbeal Breaks wayback as well https://web.archive.org/web/20181008213542/https://dash.cloudflare.com/domains
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] thinking the same as they are enterprise users... But most use a personal email. It was only a few hundred people
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tantek__ wondering if it is worth taking any screenshots
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tantek__ was there anything in the G+ UI that impressed people?
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[jgmac1106] Feel weird screenshot private member only groups... It was comment moderation and halo effect from GAFE and Chromebook... Though iPad group very active
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[jgmac1106] When Ning was shut down teachers lost all the private social networking options
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[jgmac1106] Facebook groups massive in comparison. I blame all our professional organizations. They had no idea what to do in 2007-2008ish
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tantek__ what is GAFE?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "GAFE" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "GAFE is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sl007 google+ users are debating where to migrate https://plus.google.com/communities/112164273001338979772
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[jgmac1106] ... Sorry GAFE stood for Google Apps for Education. Most folks still call G Suite GAFE... Before GAFE launched I ran a g+ Group called using Google as a free LMS
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[jgmac1106] Wow @sl007 this migration group is a treasure trove of what people are thinking
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tantek__ what a mess
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tantek__ has anyone exported their G+ lately using "Google Takeout"?
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tantek__ curious if importing such an export into WordPress or Known (or Jekyll etc.) is even a remote possibility
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[jgmac1106] I'll be your Huckleberry. Will try tomorrow
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tantek__ (instead of just jumping on another social silo)
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[jgmac1106] Reading through that group I had no idea how many networks there are. General consensus, "Mastodon is just like Twitter but G+ was better than my blog... Till it wasn't and now I have nothing"
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[kiai] Anyone have a good source for glyphs and their CSS codes? Looking for a symbol that maybe means goal, but it doesn't have to. Just want something to replace a double quote.
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[kiai] found https://css-tricks.com/snippets/html/glyphs/
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tantek__ what is a goal?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "goal" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "goal is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ what is a taget?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "taget" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "taget is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ what is a target?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "target" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "target is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ [kiai], how about 🎯
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[jgmac1106] Gonna say same thing. What most people use
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[jgmac1106] I asked in Ds106, oldest continuous MOOC, if I can grab G+ screenshots. Don't think folks will object
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[kiai] [tantek] something like that would work. But not red.
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[kiai] unless that was just Slack showing it red
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[jgmac1106] https://plus.google.com/+GregMcverry/posts/GdYF6XFqqgg
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[jgmac1106] I posted that and got clobbered with DMs asking how... So....
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[jgmac1106] https://plus.google.com/+GregMcverry/posts/abGSXBPgynM
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[jgmac1106] Darn can't post correct link but doing a virtual IndieWeb meet up for folks looking to G+ alternatives
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