#indieweb 2018-11-30
2018-11-30 UTC
XgF, jgmac1106, jjuran, snarfed, todrobbins, KartikPrabhu, benwerd, [tantek], wolftune, gooooootime, mblaney, IRCsome, cjwillcock, geekodour_mob, sl007, AkyRhO, anotheryou, jihaisse, barpthewire, hook54321, catsup, quite, iasai and [kevinmarks] joined the channel; mblaney left the channel
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# 
kisik21 To people using Microsub on a daily basis: what's in your Notification channel?
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[grantcodes] kisik21: I forward any webmentions I receive to my notifications channel
# kisik21 I do that too
# kisik21 but maybe there are some other interesting uses?
# [grantcodes] My site can also forward other error notifications, but not done too much else yet
# [grantcodes] Well since they are full posts you can do just about anything, like include links to mark comments as approved / delete them
# [grantcodes] And microsub-notifier.tpxl.io is kinda fun, you can forward notifications via webhook, email or kindle
# 
jgmac1106 [schmarty] gotta bring kids to school but here is how far I got this morning: https://samizdat.glitch.me/
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# kisik21 aaronpk: feedback on Monocle: how about displaying posts that are replied to instead of links to them? would make it easier to follow Twitter discussions
# kisik21 shorter version of above: please provide reply contexts in the feed
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# 
[schmarty] [jgmac1106] that is quite a website
# [jgmac1106] Well.... It's a ten minute copy and paste job.... Figured it fits theme... But worry about minimizing the historical bravery of samizdat journalism
# [jgmac1106] Search cc images on Flickr and it's all their gravestones from death in pogrums or capture
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# [jgmac1106] I wonder could the building blocks be ported over to Weebly? https://dev.weebly.com/home.html reach a ton of people that way, especially small businesses now, could a Weebly app be built that adds mf2?
# [jgmac1106] https://dev.weebly.com/pf_getStarted.html some random thought to stow away for later
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[kevinmarks] If you want a samizdata feel, there is this layout to emulate https://justinjackson.ca/new-website
# [kevinmarks] If you want images to look photocopied you can use this filter https://codepen.io/kevinmarks/pen/PyLjRv
# [jgmac1106] yeah, kinda feel bad cutting and pasting...ohhh cool filter...but I shouted out publicly "sick of ad-hoc committees on publishing" I can build an open access journal in three days
# [jgmac1106] <--- needs to learn to shut his mouth
# [kevinmarks] If you want a more learned look Tufte css is nice, though it needs work for data tables
# [jgmac1106] gonna leave article design up to individual articles, give them full control of css and html( well I will touch up with mf2) but I will have a template ready with APA tables.....making dtata tables and being APA compliant almost as hard as h-cite and APA
# [kevinmarks] I need a good table template for another project. I'm using https://shoelace.style/docs/tables.html at the moment and they're a bit too spaced out
# [jgmac1106] starting to just use flexbox embedded into a grid for tables...client work it's usually some bootstrap table I need to spend time and make my common table formats.....
# [kevinmarks] Html has a perfectly good <table> spec, it just needs a bit of smarts in the layout
# [jgmac1106] flexbox and/or css grid is that smarts for me...still learning...just started this summer but it can be just a styled <table> spec
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# [jgmac1106] this was my last attempt at bootstrap table hell https://www.southernct.edu/academics/schools/education/
# [jgmac1106] Dean gave me a ton of pdfs with massive tables and said, "make this a website I can see on my phine" had 48 hours for the project....lucky I don't charge market rate
# [jgmac1106] oops this page: v
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[tantek] This is amazing: https://justinjackson.ca/new-website (also lots of good user-level insights/costs about what indieweb solution to choose for software, hosting etc.)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWeb Google Custom Search Engine" https://snarfed.org/2018-11-30_indieweb-google-custom-search-engine
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# [schmarty] snarfed++ what amazing!!
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# [jgmac1106] snarfed++
# [jgmac1106] I finished the journal it time to demo at the last session at my conference I am not at: http://samizdat.jgregorymcverry.com/
# snarfed weird, the search box embed works on my post permalink, but not in my feed on https://snarfed.org/
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# kisik21 snarfed: Hey, I can find myself in the search! It's very cool that I'm on the list now!
# kisik21 snarfed++
# kisik21 snarfed: brid.gy made my post into a clickbait tweet
# kisik21 and it's awesome!
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# kisik21 I think IM should be as easy as e-mail in terms of setup
# kisik21 but it is not sadly
# kisik21 ?
# kisik21 well, not everyone's on IRC where everything is so easy
# kisik21 Dunno. Feels fairly easy for me. Set up another daemon on your home server and connect via glowing-bear.org
# kisik21 oh right, not everyone has a server in their nightstand
# kisik21 anyone knows an extension to replace like/retweet buttons with indiewebified ones on Twitter.com itself?
# kisik21 preferably it needs to be as user-friendly as native ones (means one-click like)
# kisik21 or is everyone reading twitter via indie-readers nowadays?
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# kisik21 what is POTS
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "POTS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "POTS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# kisik21 [tantek]: what is POTS calls?
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# [schmarty] If I recall it stands for Plain Old Telephone System
# kisik21 people in other countries use phones for something other than internet in 2018? wow, the world isn't as cool as I thought
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# kisik21 aaronpk: how does Quill react to 202 Accepted from UX standpoint? what does it show?
# kisik21 aaronpk: does your endpoint work synchronously?
# kisik21 ???
# [tantek] fascinating reading about /voice-comments - do any silos or sites support voice comments currently?
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# [jgmac1106] voicthread was huge hit
# [jgmac1106] microsoft bought flipgrid for a reason
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# kisik21 That actually shouldn't be a thing, because it kinda breaks UX.
# kisik21 Since I expect to not receive a 404, receiving a 202 should probably flash a message around the lines of "Your post was accepted and soon will appear at $URL"
# Loqi Path was a content hosting silo for private sharing of information among a small (limit 150) group of friends https://indieweb.org/Path
# [tantek] jacky++ https://indieweb.org/Path#Mobile_UI is amazing! well done!
# brandonkal Webmention is a really neat technical spec. But I have to ask why it was implemented in the way it is? i.e. To comment, you must: 1. Check site supports webmention 2. Leave the site, load up your own CMS, create a new page. 3. Comment on your own site and publish. 4. Wait for your server to send a POST request. 5. Wait for the original site to respond to the POST request and pull from you site.
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# brandonkal To me, that seems like the social equivalent of "let me leave this party and go home so I can write you a letter to answer your question."
# kisik21 brandonkal: webactions are partially solving this issue, but some people don't wanna implement them for various (incl. security) reasons
# brandonkal Wouldn't it make more sense to just comment directly on the site, and have it send a webmention to your site if archival is the reason this is the desired flow?
# kisik21 brandonkal: it's not the archival but the fact that you post on your own territory. This is the target of IndieWeb as I understand it.
# kisik21 [tantek]: good point about social readers. It's actually nice to use in Monocle, except my Micropub endpoint publishes one post for about 15-20 seconds
# kisik21 no it's not! since some clients are timing out on my endpoint
# kisik21 (together probably does that)
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# kisik21 I'm rewriting the whole thing now and it has the potential turn into a whole IndieWeb endpoint collection
# kisik21 Social readers need Microsub. The fact that Aperture stores too little data is one of my current itches
# kisik21 I'd probably even pay but there are no paid plans yet!
# brandonkal From what I see, it is basically an aggregator, so you must already be subscribed to the site in question and only view content through the reader to comment.
# mro_name posting on my own site eliminates the whole auth-, censor- and account maintenance and other stuff.
# mro_name if I post a comment about your post on my site and let you know it's still up to you to use it.
# mro_name that's imo the idea of webmention.
# 
aaronpk clearly we need to document all these answers on https://indieweb.org/webmention
# kisik21 aaronpk: oh, btw, any ways to unban a site in webmention.io? banned my own site while testing webmentions, now wanna unban it
# kisik21 anyway, are there ways to unban the URL/site/whatever without hacking your server and erasing the database?
# kisik21 aaronpk: then please find fireburn.ru in your database and clear all banned entries for it
# kisik21 thank you!
# Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/dyfl/status/1052403439613829120" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54358&oldid=54356
# Loqi ok, I added "http://fortune.com/2018/10/17/advertisers-facebook-video-metrics/" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54360&oldid=54358
# Loqi ok, I added "https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54361&oldid=54360
# Loqi ok, I added "https://www.fastcompany.com/90252751/why-media-people-are-furious-over-facebooks-bad-video-metrics" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54362&oldid=54361
# Loqi ok, I added "https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/17/facebook-accused-lying-video-stats-year-lawsuit-metrics/" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54364&oldid=54362
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# brandonkal aaronpk, omnibear looks like a step in the right direction. I imagine something transparent to the user as ideal: 1. A browser extension that integrates micropub. 2. A standard comment form on the site. 3. The submit action client-side javascript checks for the presence of the micropub extension. If it exists, it passes the form data to the extension, which then posts the reply on your own site. If it doesn't exist, the form is submitted to the
# brandonkal website as normal comment submission (optionally disabled). 4. Display the method of submission to the user... In this way, the site is accessible to non-indieweb visitors but indieweb visitors get all the same benefits of the webmention flow such as posting on their own turf.
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# aaronpk two of the main criticisms about this kind of approach: https://indieweb.org/webactions#Issues
# tomasparks thanks tantek for editing my voice-comments entry on the wiki
# tomasparks tantek++