#indieweb 2018-11-30

2018-11-30 UTC
XgF, jgmac1106, jjuran, snarfed, todrobbins, KartikPrabhu, benwerd, [tantek], wolftune, gooooootime, mblaney, IRCsome, cjwillcock, geekodour_mob, sl007, AkyRhO, anotheryou, jihaisse, barpthewire, hook54321, catsup, quite, iasai and [kevinmarks] joined the channel; mblaney left the channel
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
Zegnat
Good morning IndieWeb
#
kisik21
To people using Microsub on a daily basis: what's in your Notification channel?
[grantcodes] joined the channel
#
[grantcodes]
kisik21: I forward any webmentions I receive to my notifications channel
#
kisik21
I do that too
#
kisik21
but maybe there are some other interesting uses?
#
[grantcodes]
My site can also forward other error notifications, but not done too much else yet
#
[grantcodes]
Well since they are full posts you can do just about anything, like include links to mark comments as approved / delete them
#
[grantcodes]
And microsub-notifier.tpxl.io is kinda fun, you can forward notifications via webhook, email or kindle
#
GWG
Morning
#
Loqi
good morning!
#
jgmac1106
[schmarty] gotta bring kids to school but here is how far I got this morning: https://samizdat.glitch.me/
#
Loqi
Your name Here
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
kisik21
aaronpk: feedback on Monocle: how about displaying posts that are replied to instead of links to them? would make it easier to follow Twitter discussions
#
kisik21
shorter version of above: please provide reply contexts in the feed
[kevinmarks], iasai and [schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty]
[jgmac1106] that is quite a website
#
[jgmac1106]
Well.... It's a ten minute copy and paste job.... Figured it fits theme... But worry about minimizing the historical bravery of samizdat journalism
#
[jgmac1106]
Search cc images on Flickr and it's all their gravestones from death in pogrums or capture
John_Duh joined the channel
#
aaronpk
kisik21: that's definitely always been the plan but is a technical challenge in a few ways, which I havent had time to fully think through yet
#
[jgmac1106]
I wonder could the building blocks be ported over to Weebly? https://dev.weebly.com/home.html reach a ton of people that way, especially small businesses now, could a Weebly app be built that adds mf2?
#
[jgmac1106]
https://dev.weebly.com/pf_getStarted.html some random thought to stow away for later
anotheryou, wolftune, TIA1, [manton], aalmazan and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks]
If you want a samizdata feel, there is this layout to emulate https://justinjackson.ca/new-website
#
[kevinmarks]
If you want images to look photocopied you can use this filter https://codepen.io/kevinmarks/pen/PyLjRv
#
[jgmac1106]
yeah, kinda feel bad cutting and pasting...ohhh cool filter...but I shouted out publicly "sick of ad-hoc committees on publishing" I can build an open access journal in three days
#
[jgmac1106]
<--- needs to learn to shut his mouth
#
[kevinmarks]
If you want a more learned look Tufte css is nice, though it needs work for data tables
#
[jgmac1106]
gonna leave article design up to individual articles, give them full control of css and html( well I will touch up with mf2) but I will have a template ready with APA tables.....making dtata tables and being APA compliant almost as hard as h-cite and APA
#
[kevinmarks]
I need a good table template for another project. I'm using https://shoelace.style/docs/tables.html at the moment and they're a bit too spaced out
#
[jgmac1106]
starting to just use flexbox embedded into a grid for tables...client work it's usually some bootstrap table I need to spend time and make my common table formats.....
#
[kevinmarks]
Html has a perfectly good <table> spec, it just needs a bit of smarts in the layout
#
[jgmac1106]
flexbox and/or css grid is that smarts for me...still learning...just started this summer but it can be just a styled <table> spec
snarfed joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106]
this was my last attempt at bootstrap table hell https://www.southernct.edu/academics/schools/education/
#
[jgmac1106]
Dean gave me a ton of pdfs with massive tables and said, "make this a website I can see on my phine" had 48 hours for the project....lucky I don't charge market rate
#
[jgmac1106]
oops this page: v
[tantek], [eddie], John_Duh, [manton] and benwerd joined the channel
#
[tantek]
This is amazing: https://justinjackson.ca/new-website (also lots of good user-level insights/costs about what indieweb solution to choose for software, hosting etc.)
snarfed, KartikPrabhu, nunatak and iasai joined the channel
#
Loqi
[indienews] New post: "IndieWeb Google Custom Search Engine" https://snarfed.org/2018-11-30_indieweb-google-custom-search-engine
#
snarfed
happy friday all
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty]
snarfed++ what amazing!!
#
Loqi
snarfed has 33 karma in this channel over the last year (111 in all channels)
#
snarfed
updated that post with the HTML snippet to embed it on any web page. feel free!
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106]
snarfed++
#
Loqi
snarfed has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (112 in all channels)
#
[jgmac1106]
I finished the journal it time to demo at the last session at my conference I am not at: http://samizdat.jgregorymcverry.com/
#
Loqi
Your name Here
#
snarfed
[jgmac1106]++ heh
#
Loqi
[jgmac1106] has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (80 in all channels)
#
snarfed
weird, the search box embed works on my post permalink, but not in my feed on https://snarfed.org/
wolftune joined the channel
#
kisik21
snarfed: Hey, I can find myself in the search! It's very cool that I'm on the list now!
#
snarfed
kisik21++
#
Loqi
kisik21 has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
#
kisik21
snarfed++
#
Loqi
snarfed has 35 karma in this channel over the last year (113 in all channels)
#
kisik21
snarfed: brid.gy made my post into a clickbait tweet
#
kisik21
and it's awesome!
snarfed joined the channel
[eddie] and mro_name joined the channel
#
GWG
9to5Google: 2019 is your last year to use Google Hangouts if you haven’t moved on already.
#
GWG
Darn, if this is true, still the easiest place to message people without needing a phone number
#
GWG
Need to start looking for alternatives
#
GWG
These things sneak up on you
#
kisik21
I think IM should be as easy as e-mail in terms of setup
#
kisik21
but it is not sadly
#
aaronpk
wait what
#
kisik21
well, not everyone's on IRC where everything is so easy
#
jgmac1106
I like signal
#
aaronpk
I had no idea google was getting rid of hangouts. I still use it with a few people who have android phones
#
snarfed
kisik21: wow easy is the last thing i'd call IRC :P
#
snarfed
especially for non-technical or even semi-technical people
#
kisik21
Dunno. Feels fairly easy for me. Set up another daemon on your home server and connect via glowing-bear.org
#
kisik21
oh right, not everyone has a server in their nightstand
#
kisik21
anyone knows an extension to replace like/retweet buttons with indiewebified ones on Twitter.com itself?
#
kisik21
preferably it needs to be as user-friendly as native ones (means one-click like)
#
kisik21
or is everyone reading twitter via indie-readers nowadays?
#
aaronpk
there was one at one point, not sure the current status of it
#
Loqi
[barnabywalters] web-action-hero-toolbelt: Make the web actionable. Part sharing button customiser, part <action> shim
eli_oat and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek]
Uh oh re: Hangouts. As in service, mobile app(s), what exactly is being shutdown?
#
[tantek]
If they’re ditching the mobile app then I may be forced to get a dumb phone to make POTS calls :(
#
kisik21
what is POTS
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "POTS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "POTS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
kisik21
[tantek]: what is POTS calls?
snarfed and [schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty]
If I recall it stands for Plain Old Telephone System
#
kisik21
people in other countries use phones for something other than internet in 2018? wow, the world isn't as cool as I thought
tantek joined the channel
#
[tantek]
many businesses still depend on inbound telephone # calls, instead of say, WebRTC
#
kisik21
aaronpk: how does Quill react to 202 Accepted from UX standpoint? what does it show?
#
aaronpk
not sure
#
kisik21
aaronpk: does your endpoint work synchronously?
#
aaronpk
half and half
#
[tantek]
fascinating reading about /voice-comments - do any silos or sites support voice comments currently?
#
[tantek]
I've only seen the microphone button UI for voice comments in txting UIs
snarfed joined the channel
#
[tantek]
[tomasparks] you around? curious what examples of voice comments you're building on / being inspired by
#
[tantek]
(also I'd like to help with adding a dfn for the wiki page)
jgmac1106, snarfed, snarfed1 and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106]
voicthread was huge hit
#
[jgmac1106]
microsoft bought flipgrid for a reason
[kevinmarks], snarfed and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie]
kisik21: I believe Quill treats 202 like a generic 200-ish response and just opens the browser to that url
#
[eddie]
Thus static sites tend to show a 404 after you use Quill
#
[eddie]
At least from my experience unless I did something wrong
#
kisik21
That actually shouldn't be a thing, because it kinda breaks UX.
#
aaronpk
kisik21: sorry was on the phone. my site creates the file synchronously, but does all the other work afterwards. so when I first create a post in quill, i'll see just my text, then in a few seconds the reply context gets filled in
#
kisik21
Since I expect to not receive a 404, receiving a 202 should probably flash a message around the lines of "Your post was accepted and soon will appear at $URL"
#
aaronpk
and then it gets syndicated to twitter and the twitter icon shows up a bit later
#
aaronpk
so in reality I end up hitting refresh a few times after I post somethign to wait for it to finish so I can confirm the tweet looks right
#
aaronpk
yeah that's probably good guidance for micropub clients
#
jacky
hey y'all - added screenshots to Path for helpful inspiration on making MicroPub/MicroSub apps
#
[tantek]
what is Path
#
Loqi
Path was a content hosting silo for private sharing of information among a small (limit 150) group of friends https://indieweb.org/Path
#
[tantek]
jacky++ https://indieweb.org/Path#Mobile_UI is amazing! well done!
#
Loqi
jacky has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
#
jacky
\o/ ty!
#
brandonkal
Webmention is a really neat technical spec. But I have to ask why it was implemented in the way it is? i.e. To comment, you must: 1. Check site supports webmention 2. Leave the site, load up your own CMS, create a new page. 3. Comment on your own site and publish. 4. Wait for your server to send a POST request. 5. Wait for the original site to respond to the POST request and pull from you site.
cleanshirt joined the channel
#
brandonkal
To me, that seems like the social equivalent of "let me leave this party and go home so I can write you a letter to answer your question."
#
kisik21
brandonkal: webactions are partially solving this issue, but some people don't wanna implement them for various (incl. security) reasons
#
brandonkal
Wouldn't it make more sense to just comment directly on the site, and have it send a webmention to your site if archival is the reason this is the desired flow?
#
[tantek]
brandonkal - when you're using a social reader, there's no leaving the context
#
[tantek]
you comment as you would @-reply in Twitter etc.
#
kisik21
brandonkal: it's not the archival but the fact that you post on your own territory. This is the target of IndieWeb as I understand it.
#
kisik21
[tantek]: good point about social readers. It's actually nice to use in Monocle, except my Micropub endpoint publishes one post for about 15-20 seconds
#
[tantek]
"slow commenting" 🙂
#
[tantek]
(it's a good thing)
#
kisik21
no it's not! since some clients are timing out on my endpoint
#
kisik21
(together probably does that)
snarfed joined the channel
#
kisik21
I'm rewriting the whole thing now and it has the potential turn into a whole IndieWeb endpoint collection
#
jacky
brandonkal: your point _is_ interesting though. Have you looked into social readers though?
#
jacky
(I know it was mentioned above)
#
kisik21
Social readers need Microsub. The fact that Aperture stores too little data is one of my current itches
#
kisik21
I'd probably even pay but there are no paid plans yet!
#
brandonkal
From what I see, it is basically an aggregator, so you must already be subscribed to the site in question and only view content through the reader to comment.
#
jacky
Interesting. I'm basically done with MicroPub for Koype and I was debating having it have MicroSub in built
#
aaronpk
I use a bookmarklet from quill
#
jacky
oh thanks for reminding me
#
aaronpk
so when i'm looking at a site I just click the button and then it takes me to quill with the URL of the thing i'm replying to pre-loaded
#
mro_name
posting on my own site eliminates the whole auth-, censor- and account maintenance and other stuff.
#
snarfed
brandonkal: right, what aaronpk said. lots of us use bookmarklets. one click from any post to replying on your own site
#
aaronpk
and yep omnibear is a great solution too
#
mro_name
if I post a comment about your post on my site and let you know it's still up to you to use it.
#
mro_name
that's imo the idea of webmention.
#
aaronpk
clearly we need to document all these answers on https://indieweb.org/webmention
#
kisik21
aaronpk: oh, btw, any ways to unban a site in webmention.io? banned my own site while testing webmentions, now wanna unban it
#
aaronpk
banned... your site? I thought you could only block individual URLs
#
kisik21
anyway, are there ways to unban the URL/site/whatever without hacking your server and erasing the database?
#
aaronpk
nope but I can remove them for you if you want
#
jacky
> hacking the server
#
jacky
kisik21++
#
Loqi
kisik21 has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
#
kisik21
aaronpk: then please find fireburn.ru in your database and clear all banned entries for it
#
kisik21
thank you!
#
Loqi
ok, I added "https://twitter.com/dyfl/status/1052403439613829120" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54358&oldid=54356
#
Loqi
ok, I added "http://fortune.com/2018/10/17/advertisers-facebook-video-metrics/" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54360&oldid=54358
#
Loqi
ok, I added "https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54361&oldid=54360
#
Loqi
ok, I added "https://www.fastcompany.com/90252751/why-media-people-are-furious-over-facebooks-bad-video-metrics" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54362&oldid=54361
#
Loqi
ok, I added "https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/17/facebook-accused-lying-video-stats-year-lawsuit-metrics/" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54364&oldid=54362
#
snarfed
we're probably hitting diminishing returns on collecting facebook criticism on that wiki page :P
#
aaronpk
the internet is doing a pretty good job of it these days
tomasparks joined the channel
#
brandonkal
aaronpk, omnibear looks like a step in the right direction. I imagine something transparent to the user as ideal: 1. A browser extension that integrates micropub. 2. A standard comment form on the site. 3. The submit action client-side javascript checks for the presence of the micropub extension. If it exists, it passes the form data to the extension, which then posts the reply on your own site. If it doesn't exist, the form is submitted to the
#
brandonkal
website as normal comment submission (optionally disabled). 4. Display the method of submission to the user... In this way, the site is accessible to non-indieweb visitors but indieweb visitors get all the same benefits of the webmention flow such as posting on their own turf.
jgmac1106 joined the channel
#
aaronpk
there's been quite a bit of experimentation around that kind of thing in the past, with varying levels of success
#
aaronpk
also consider what information is leaked to the site you're commenting on when integrating stuff like this, as well as how easy it is to be tricked or phished
#
aaronpk
two of the main criticisms about this kind of approach: https://indieweb.org/webactions#Issues
#
tomasparks
thanks tantek for editing my voice-comments entry on the wiki
#
tomasparks
tantek++
#
Loqi
tantek has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (83 in all channels)