#indieweb 2018-12-03

2018-12-03 UTC
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/12/02/11/note/
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
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[tantek] Has anyone tried the 'close friends' feature of IG? Curious what it's like and what use-cases it seems to solve - is there an indieweb equivalent etc. https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30/18117718/instagram-close-friends-stories-favorites
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jacky interesting
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jacky dansup: ^^ peep
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jacky s/^^/^/g
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dansup jacky: yes, pixelfed will do something similar called Circles that will allow you categorize different audiences and its not limited to just Stories ;)
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jacky you ahead of the game!
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dansup jacky: heh, I am standing on the shoulders of giants and some are in this room. feels amazing to build something that benefits society, no amount of money could top this
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jacky dansup: I can only imagine! I'm excited to push out work of my own soon
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dansup jacky: can't wait to see the koype launch :D
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dansup I really need to setup my personal website so I can login to the wiki, put it off for like 2 years lol
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[Khurt] Understood. Agree about semantics. Looked at the chart on IndieWeb and that confused my understanding of “silo”.
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kisik21 Software bugs are harsh. One of mine constantly overwrited one post instead of posting new posts.
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petermolnar I found something: http://finch.soupmode.com/ - this is, in essence, a repost of a lot of indieweb people's feeds, but I don't think it's an intentional repost
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] need a podcast app that just publishes a listen post when a podcast finishes...or one button push at best. Haven't tried podcasts in social readers yet.
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sknebel petermolnar: seems to be someone's simple feed reader?
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sknebel http://sawv.org/info.html "Finch - If I read feeds, this bare minimum reader is becoming my main source."
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petermolnar simple, eg. it's a publicly accessible website :D
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[eddie] jgmac1106 Yeah, it's tough, because people seem to have so many different preferences in their podcast apps, and we can't recreate every type of podcast app. One option we've thought about is having a Microsub server (or Microsub app) output a podcast feed that you can add to your podcast app. Then, it could add a "Create Listen Post" hyperlink into the show notes that would essentially create a Micropub listen post to your web
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[eddie] I think so far, that is the closest brainstorm we've come up with for a "one click listen post"
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aaronpk Interesting idea with the podcast feed. I suppose that service could also create proxy urls for the audio file and automatically post read posts when they are downloaded
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kisik21 Here's a tip for Microsub users: have a "self" channel where all your posts are showing up. That way you'll catch bugs in your markup faster than anyone would even notice!
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[eddie] kisik21 That is actually very useful
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[eddie] thing*
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[eddie] I do the same thin
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[eddie] aaronpk The issue with audio file downloads is that's not when you listen to a podcast
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kisik21 aaronpk: do you plan on supporting mp-syndicate-to in Monocle's quick posting interface?
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[eddie] for example Castro has 20 hours worth of podcast episodes downloaded and ready for me to listen to
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aaronpk Depends on the app but yeah
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aaronpk kisik21: yeah I should, and also in the reply interface
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kisik21 I'm syndicating all of my stuff to Twitter but I also don't wanna hardcode it in the Micropub instance
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kisik21 swentel: do you plan support for checking some Syndication checkboxes by default in Indigenous for Android? I'd have some use for this feature
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[eddie] I'd love to try to get some of the Podcast apps to support Micropub but I think it's pretty abstract use case for them and most of them are owned by companies now except for Overcast
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[eddie] Like Castro just sold to the company behind Dribbble
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swentel kisik21, you mean checked by default instead of having to toggle them right now ?
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kisik21 swentel: exactly
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kisik21 see 6 messages up for use case
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swentel makes sense, created an issue for it
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[jgmac1106] Overcast would still be a huge win, but the server idea seems interesting. Though be interesting real data for podcast producers. Nobody figured out good way to calculate download/listen ratios
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[davidmead] Been trying to log into Altogether and Indigenous for a week now and can’t. After using WP credentials I either get ’Could not log in: Cannot read property ‘status’ of undefined’ or ‘Could not log in: Authentication timed out’. Anyone else having this issue on WP? Asked in #wordpress saw i no longer have a microsub server announced so i going to check that on http://davidjohnmead.com/blog - adding SSL shouldn’t effect this, rig
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aaronpk If the site is kinda slow then that second request to redirect from http to https may push it over the edge and the whole thing times out
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aaronpk that's just my first thought
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[davidmead] so do you think, aaronpk, it’d be worth creating a new https link in aperture?
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[davidmead] I still have 1 instance of Indigenous pulling in content, but I daren’t log out of that 😉
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aaronpk If you changed your url I'll have to update it manually in aperture to keep your data associated with your account
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aaronpk we could benefit from some documentation around how to handle people changing their URLs for IndieAuth apps
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[davidmead] I do seem to running into that, a lot 😜
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[davidmead] I’ll try updating the URL now. Worst case it breaks more
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[tantek] aaronpk, that sounds like account migration!
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[tantek] what is account migration
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Loqi account migration (AKA account portability, or the ability to move your account) is a specific kind of migration when a user switches from using one account on a particular server to using another account on another server, typically when both servers host multiple accounts, and has the common problem of losing followers https://indieweb.org/account_migration
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[davidmead] So I try to log in at https://aperture.p3k.io/ with `https://davidjohnmead.com/blog`, `http://davidjohnmead.com/blog`, and `http://davidjohnmead.com/blog/`all wich take me to `https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub/180` and not `/27`where my stuff is
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[eddie] Yeah, that's expected
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[eddie] Well wait
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[davidmead] redirect eddie?
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[eddie] http and https take to the same locatin
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[eddie] that's strange
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[eddie] ohhh wait I know
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[jgmac1106] I will need to migrate my aperture account between domains as welk
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[eddie] when logging in, it eventually ends up telling Aperture your url is https
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[eddie] So then Aperture takes you to the https account which is 180
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[eddie] versus the http account which is 27
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[eddie] aaronpk has to manually change the urls associated to the accounts
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[davidmead] I’ll have to wait until I get home and remove that redirect on the server for all `http` requests to go to `https`
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[davidmead] log in, the update
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[davidmead] even though i’m moving away from WP next year, I do wonder if I should make my homepage in WP too just so I don’t have to worry about sub-folders in the URL for logging in to all these places
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[davidmead] just seems to add extra mud to the already murky waters 🙂
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[davidmead] using the root seems to be the path of least resistance (no pun intended) for logging in
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aaronpk Yeah especially since yours is a single user website, your IndieAuth URL really shouldn't have "/blog" in it
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aaronpk but that's something the Wordpress plugin would need to understand
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[tantek] what is migration?
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Loqi migration in the context of the indieweb refers to the process of moving your indieweb site from any one or more of one CMS / web host / DNS provider / URL design / domain name to another https://indieweb.org/migration
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[tantek] ^^^ worth capturing as an issue / challenge there?
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[davidmead] As I have my domain homepage as a POSH page that links to the WP install at `/blog` I can see I made a cross for my own back
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[davidmead] I don’t think of running “my site” on WP, just the blog part. Hence `/blog`
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aaronpk Yeah makes sense
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aaronpk the IndieAuth plugin would need a way to tell it that the Wordpress root is not your site root and should use a different url as your IndieAuth identity instead
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[davidmead] Drawback is all the Indieweb “stuff” are WP plugins that live in `/blog`
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[davidmead] yeah
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aaronpk I hate to make more work for GWG but would be a good feature request
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[davidmead] Maybe I’m the only oe who’d ever set it up like this 😜
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kisik21 Question about Micropub media endpoints. The URL [for file uploaded to a media endpoint] should be unguessable - why?
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aaronpk So that someone can't just iterate all the numbers and find all your uploaded files
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kisik21 but these are usually public anyway...
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aaronpk Not necessarily
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kisik21 e.g. private posts?
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aaronpk also sometimes I upload a photo then replace it with another one before publishing and I don't want the old one to be visible
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[davidmead] tantek I can add `http:` to `https:` issues at https://indieweb.org/migration when I get home
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[tantek] davidmead yes that would be a good one to note
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snarfed re IG's new close friends, sounds like a narrower/simpler version of G+'s circles
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[tantek] snarfed, perhaps? if there's only one and it has no user editable name is it really "G+ Circles"?
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[jgmac1106] one difference it just one list, you can't have multiple, you either in the circle of trust or hapy
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[jgmac1106] or not...sorry
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[jgmac1106] https://blog.moodle.net/2018/what-is-emoji-id/
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[schmarty] haha they're reusing a lot of mastodon explainer (including the "federation" network graphic)
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[jgmac1106] yeah....caught my I as well but reminded me of the webring and emoji id
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[jgmac1106] they are basically forking Plemora and building on elixir....I tried to say just do what jacky does
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[eddie] strange. I read through the article and it doesn't feel like it's really solving anything
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[eddie] the emoji id only works within the MoodleNet API
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[eddie] anything outside of that still requires a standard username@domain.name configuration
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[eddie] So it's adding more complexity without solving any real issues
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[eddie] I give a :thumbsdown:
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[eddie] if the emojis works across federation somehow, that would be a different story, but that would be enormously complex
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[eddie] "It doesn’t ‘break’ federation, it’s just a layer on top."
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[jgmac1106] Doug is open to honest feedback, I would post that as a reply....or I can share privately...and accessibility folks tell me they hate emojis in names
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[eddie] I can send him a reply once I have a little more time to think through a full response around my notes above
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jacky yeah tbh the Emoji ID thing doesn't make too much sense to me
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jacky like I read it thrice and felt like either it's over my head or I just don't have enough context
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jacky [jgmac1106]: I was debating doing that myself re: feedback
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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sknebel morning!
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[jgmac1106] he posted it for feedback...might be a good chance to say..well that isn't to unique but sinigning in with someone's moodlenet url is very doable
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aaronpk Oh no no no
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aaronpk that emoji ID is a terrible idea
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aaronpk it's a central registry of IDs, which is how they "cleverly" solve the problem inherent in distributed IDs
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aaronpk if the emoji are chosen by the system, then we already know how that turns out (indiewebring) where people want to change it because they don't like whatever the assigned emoji is
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aaronpk if people can choose it then they may want to change it later for various reasons
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aaronpk and no a central registry of IDs does not begin to solve "nomadic identity"
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aaronpk sorry, I have a lot of feels about this stuff 🙃
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[jgmac1106] please leave him comments....Doug works well open and wants the criticism of ideas
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aaronpk Okay, looks like his blog accepts webmentions too!
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[jgmac1106] yep it is a WP site, looks like no mf2, its the WP.com version of Independent Publisher 2
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] I outlined listen posts for podcast clients a while back: https://boffosocko.com/2018/09/11/blue-sky-sketch-for-overcast/; everyone should have a faux-cast: https://boffosocko.com/2018/03/08/podcasts-of-things-ive-listened-to-or-want-to-listen-to/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "A draft for my new blogging platform" https://fireburn.ru/post/a-draft-for-my-new-blogging-platform
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kisik21 the syndication to indienews worked at last
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[jgmac1106] Yeah [chrisaldrich] it is an interesting idea, and I don't think an edge case at all. Be nice if native in apps but a faux feed in my reader with one button listen posts interesting
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[chrisaldrich] kisik21++
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Loqi kisik21 has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (13 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] We need an HWC-Penza!! Awesome watching you build your site. Jealous
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kisik21 Penza is the world's black hole, better do this kind of thing in Moscow!
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kisik21 I'm an odd person here... I don't think you can find another 17yo person with a domain and working personal site which already supports a bunch of w3c specifications
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kisik21 it was kind of a miracle that you don't need to be 18 year old to grab your own domain
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kisik21 and this probably means that everyone can (or better say: should) do that
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[jgmac1106] just takes two people and a cafe, hwc-moscow be wonderful...but you can usually find other networked teenagers, especailly in black holes
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kisik21 If any one of you IndieWeb people would suddenly come to Moscow in summer, I guess we could meet somewhere! My spoken English though is not as good as written
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[chrisaldrich] For those implementing the "slow web" into their websites, this seems an interesting idea to potentially implement: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.slowlyapp
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[chrisaldrich] Think webementions that are delivered at the pace of snail mail and based on the geographic distance between the sender and the recipient.
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snarfed1 [chrisaldrich]: interesting! i should add a comment to https://snarfed.org/2013-08-18_im-slow with a reference
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snarfed also geo distance idea reminds me of https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html
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[jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] see the postcard project from CLMOOC combines web and snail mail
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kisik21 aaronpk: please make Telegraph.p3k.io logins persist. It's really inconvenient to log in every time.
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aaronpk persist across what? just checked and i'm still logged in here and i don't even remember the last time i actually logged in on this computer
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kisik21 how do you set the cookie?
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kisik21 aaronpk: I need to relogin roughly every time I restart my browser
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aaronpk i don't remember, maybe just defaults which is probably tied to browser restart?
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aaronpk i never restart my browser
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kisik21 you probably use a session cookie, which gets cleared on browser restart
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kisik21 webmention.io does remember me though
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kisik21 aaronpk: try to see what's the difference between cookies on webmention.io and telegraph.p3k.io
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aaronpk webmention.io is ruby and telegraph is php so they're pretty different :)
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kisik21 but browser doesn't know what language do you use
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kisik21 It knows cookies!
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aaronpk feel free to send a PR to telegraph :)
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kisik21 I don't know PHP more than "make a quick file upload page which would try to download file and crash because of the timeout"
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kisik21 s/upload/download/