#indieweb 2019-02-28

2019-02-28 UTC
snarfed, emceeaich, [schmarty], [jgmac1106] and [tantek] joined the channel
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jacky
one of my personal/private itches is to have a events platform like meetup but also kinda like facebook events
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jacky
I do monthly dinners with about 10+ people and I've moved from Facebook Events to email
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jacky
which _works_ but I know it can be better
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jacky
I don't know if anyone has ideas/itches/feelings about such a platform
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jacky
but I'm definitely hoping to have it before the summit
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jacky
I think aaronpk mentioned this in his last video/podcast?
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aaronpk
that's an ambitious timeline ;-)
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jacky
doing it from my site _would_ work too actually
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jacky
it is
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[tantek]
is interested in this
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[tantek]
jacky, feel free to add an entry in /event#Brainstorming documenting your use-case and thinking/design/approach
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jacky
definitely
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[tantek]
what is invitation
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Loqi
An invitation is an optional feature of an event post (an event with invitations), or a reply to an event post that also notifies a list of invitees that they've been invited to the event, or a special case of that, an RSVP to an event that also invites additional people to it https://indieweb.org/invitation
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[tantek]
jack, also that ^^^ could definitely use more brainstorming and experimentation!
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jacky
ah crap this is a rabbit hole lol
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jacky
a fun one
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aaronpk
SURE IS
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[tantek]
YES IT IS
[jgmac1106], jackjami_, jackjamieson, electronicmaji, [eddie], wolftune, [tantek], KartikPrabhu, ichoquo0Aigh9ie, barpthewire, cweiske, stevestreza and stevestreza4 joined the channel
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sknebel
good morning indieweb!
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Zegnat
Good morning sknebel, IndieWeb!
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Zegnat
Any one have any fun projects going on today?
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petermolnar
not since gopher
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petermolnar
apart from that, I've started taking over a site, set up WordPress, and I though I'll play nice and do it with Gutenberg; this thing is a disaster
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petermolnar
the more I use it the more terrible it becomes
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petermolnar
example: 2 column layout, called "media and text" - if you allow "stack on mobile" depending if the media is on the left or right, it will either be above or below the text when stacked, and I can't find a single way to make the image always on top on mobile
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petermolnar
built-in feature
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petermolnar
and then the bugs
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petermolnar
my god, the bugs
[kevinmarks], catsup, [frank], [Vincent], [Rose] and jeremych_ joined the channel
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jeremycherfas
Morning IndieWeb and zegnat petermolnar
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jeremycherfas
Going to continue my Listening script, trying to decide whether I want to capture the cover art and, much harder, whether I want to pout this in my stream on withknown or into my main site on Grav. Both have pros and cons.
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Zegnat
I’d say that depends on your current use-case for having two separate sites in the first place :)
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Zegnat
I am playing with webextensions again. Thinking about making a webmention sender.
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jeremycherfas
Ah well, as you know, that's complicated.
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jeremycherfas
The thing is, I have been keeping away from Micropub in Grav because I could foresee all sorts of difficulties syncing production and local. Whereas there is no such problem with Known. And I can just feed an RSS stream from Known to Grav.
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[grantcodes]
FYI: .dev domains are available today: https://domains.google/tld/dev/
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jeremycherfas
But for something like listen posts, I would be perfectly content to create the listen posts locally here, once every few days and then sync from here to production.
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jeremycherfas
And that would give me an opportunity to get Micropub working better locally too, because it wouldn't matter if it messed up occasionally.
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jeremycherfas
So, Rubber Ducky, I think I have decided what to do.
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[Rose]
Quack quack πŸ˜‰
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jeremycherfas
[Rose] are you abandoning Grav then?
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[Rose]
Probably, at least personally. There's just too many technical hurdles that help me avoid content creation. I'll still use it at work.
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[jgmac1106]
I am going to finish porting my podcast now that snarfed added mf2->rss
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Zegnat
Where is [Rose] moving to?
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sknebel
Zegnat: Wordpress
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[jgmac1106]
WordPress will be a great stop for Rose until she takes her PHP skills and joins us on Known
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[Rose]
I don't think Known is likely.
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[Rose]
I want a personal website I don't mess with a lot.
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[jgmac1106]
I know I tease...awesome to get more folks on team WordPress
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[Rose]
And considering my WordPress skills that's an ideal solution.
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[jgmac1106]
but all jokes aside Rose Known..out of the box is way less work than WordPress,
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[Rose]
But not for the other things I want and need.
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[jgmac1106]
that is where WP rules the world
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[jgmac1106]
there is a plugin for any possible thing you can think of
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[jgmac1106]
my strategy was to use a page builder and wrap an IndieWeb theme in it so I could get the pretty designs and photos I liked
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[Rose]
I am writing my own theme. But aside from that and importing my content I'm going to try not to touch it.
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Loqi
rose has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (19 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106]
we will have another WordPress theme
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[Rose]
It's a child theme for Genesis though.
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[jgmac1106]
...I don't want to touch my website....I am writing my own theme....I 'd hate to know what your definition of "hands on" is...building a computer and a CMS from scratch...can't wait to see what you do
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[Kristof_Bernaer
Toolset plugin is a pretty decent (payable 1-time) plugin to create whatever Custom Post Type to give ur content good structures
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[jgmac1106]
if you know feel free to answer in WordPress channel but you can strip away old micoformats and add in correct ones with that plugin?
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petermolnar
had anyone tried to PESOS reviews of their product|thing|article|etc from silos? I don't mean the usual ones, but like Yelp, booking.com, etc.
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[jgmac1106]
not but I started reviewing more for Google Maps..I should
[frank], nloadhol1, Toby, [kevinmarks], Guest44, [schmarty], [davidmead], wolftune, tbbrown, iasai, [Rose], singpolyma, [pfefferle], eddiehinkle, [eddie] and [tantek] joined the channel
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Loqi
ok, I added "http://bradfrost.com/blog/post/write-on-your-own-website/" to the "See Also" section of /why https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=57505&oldid=56474
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[tantek]
That's worth indienewsing
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aaronpk
"are you the guy with the orange website" love it haha
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aaronpk
oh hey he linked to https://indieweb.org/why at the end
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aaronpk
schmarty++ i fully expect to see some indieweb/pyportal mashup project at indieweb summit
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Loqi
schmarty has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (65 in all channels)
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[schmarty]
oh yeah we should have full-on indieweb badges by then.
[Vincent], [jgmac1106], gRegorLove_, barpthewire, sfoster, [grantcodes], eli_oat, aalmazan, bronzehedwick, yar, leg, snarfed, Adam1, wolftune, [eddie], [manton] and [schmarty] joined the channel
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[jgmac1106]
jacky forget invites build me an indieweb version of the doodle poll...wow that sit is getting more and more heavy with tricky nav adds
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bronzehedwick
hi all! i've been really getting into the indieweb principles and have started building out my site's implementation. i'm interested in attending a meetup, and heard there was one in NYC, but i can't find it on the site. am i missing something obvious?
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[schmarty]
hi bronzehedwick! thanks for letting us know! it is indeed hard to find.
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[schmarty]
we plan to meet next on March 6th but I need to add info about the event. https://indieweb.org/events/2019-02-20-homebrew-website-club-nyc
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[schmarty]
whoops dupe link
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bronzehedwick
thanks! sorry, was pulled away for a bit
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bronzehedwick
i'll mark my cal and keep checking the site
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[schmarty]
bronzehedwick: no worries! we previously met at Aroma Espresso Bar (100 Church St) but their current hours close at 7pm. we last met at The Bean at Cooper Union (3rd Ave @ 9th St) and it was fine but no easy power outlet access. We may be in a new location TBD!
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[schmarty]
you can find us planning events like that in #indieweb-meta !
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bronzehedwick
oh snap! thanks, i'll head over there :)
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Adam1
Came here from Riot.im. I've had my own indie website since the early 90's. I even migrated my old Geocities Guestbook to my current site. ;) Seems like this channel might be my kind of people. Also sounds like I missed a meetup in NYC recently. :( www.adamlein.com
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[manton]
[tantek] Inspired by the discussion at IndieWebCamp, I added a "Save to Internet Archive" setting to Micro.blog. Still debating whether it should be on by default. I think for now "no", just in case someone has a semi-private blog they don't expect to be shared anywhere. https://www.manton.org/2019/02/28/automatically-save-to.html
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[schmarty]
hi adam1! we have another HWC NYC brewing for next Wednesday 3/6. still need to lock down the location before we put up the event. it'll likely be somewhere in Manhattan south of 3rd St. :}
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gRegorLove
nice site, Adam1! I like the history page too
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Adam1
Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for the NYC 3/6 event details. I haven't read my history page in a while... almost forgot about the things FrontPage extensions used to do. Ha!
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chrisaldrich
good morning indieweb
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chrisaldrich
I've been thinking about /discovery and /groups lately. Do we have a concept like neighbor that extends beyond /location to things like /tags?
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chrisaldrich
I just ran across the concept within /CiteULike at http://www.citeulike.org/neighbour/list/ChrisAldrich and it seems common enough to be useful to us
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chrisaldrich
though I'm not sure if anyone has built anything like it outside of the silo spaces
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snarfed
sounds a bit like related pages
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chrisaldrich
What is related pages?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "related pages" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "related pages is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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chrisaldrich
What is related reading?
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Loqi
Related Reading or related posts or related content is a discovery feature of some blogging silos (like Medium, Wordpress.com) where at the end of a blog post, the system suggests another deemed-likely-interesting-to-you given your assumed interest in the topic that you just read about https://indieweb.org/related_reading
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chrisaldrich
snarfed, you mean that ^^ ?
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chrisaldrich
That's pretty close, and I'd added some material to it yesterday. Any other examples folks can think of?
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chrisaldrich
Swarm does a version of neighbors that is both location AND time dependent is another example I've got.
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chrisaldrich
I also want to make sure there isn't some other common definition that I'm missing or which is commonly used amongst the social silos or their algorithms.
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snarfed
"related," "suggested," and "discover[y]" are probably the closest keywords
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snarfed
also recommendations i guess
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[eddie]
Hmmm here's an interesting thought
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[eddie]
This is talking about posts that have similar tags
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GWG_
I suggested that discovery be the focus for next year
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[eddie]
What if you had a way to tag people (either manually or based on the tags of the posts you've received via webmention)
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[eddie]
Then you could recommend other people for others to follow on your website?
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[eddie]
"Related People"
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chrisaldrich
So if I make follow posts and explicitly tag people as IndieWeb, then that could be a group of related people....
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[eddie]
Yep, that could totally work
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chrisaldrich
I'm thinking "neighbor" defines the relationship(s) or common data types and a conglomeration of neighbors makes a /group
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[eddie]
Yep, that makes sense to me
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chrisaldrich
what is audience?
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Loqi
audience is an experimental property of a post that indicates the intended recipients (readers) of the post https://indieweb.org/audience
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chrisaldrich
and audience could potentially be a way of narrowing down or filtering a larger group...
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chrisaldrich
eddie, I vaguely remember someone mentioning aggregating liked articles within readers lately as a means of creating nuzzle-like discovery. Was that you?
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[eddie]
Not me πŸ™‚
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[eddie]
Someone at one of the german IWCs was working on a Microsub server that generated channels with that stuff
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[eddie]
not sure how audience would come into this. Mind expounding on that?
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[tantek]
manton++ wow awesome! definitely add Micro.blog to /Internet_Archive#Services - and agreed with opt-in (default off / no). Also consider the difference(s) between "send all my posts to internet archive" and "send everything I link to, to internet archive". Is there a downside to making just the latter on by default?
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chrisaldrich
Not audience specifically... more around using readers as aggregators of data to help in discovery.
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[tantek]
what is discovery
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Loqi
Discovery is a variety of methods for finding content, websites, communities, or people to follow on the web including search, directories, recommendation engines, tags, or other serendipitous methods https://indieweb.org/discovery
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[tantek]
discovery << related reading
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[tantek]
does anyone post ratings on their own website?
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[tantek]
of other things on the web (or elsewhere)
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jeremycherfas
I rate movies sometimes.
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chrisaldrich
I've done book and moving ratings, though not always consistently
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[tantek]
any permalinks to examples of such rating posts?
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jeremycherfas
Not till tomorrow morning. And I’m pretty sure they’re not marked up.
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[tantek]
no markup needed. looking for content examples where "rating" is the intent (and primary purpose) of the post
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[tantek]
when I'm looking for markup I'll ask in dev πŸ™‚
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[manton]
[tantek] Good question. I can't think of a significant downside... Mostly I just haven't thought about it very much until this week.
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chrisaldrich
I find that typically I'm never doing rating-specific posts, but it's a sub-category of data that might appear in a Review post or in /watch or /read posts
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[tantek]
to be clear that's what I do on my own site (auto-archive everything I link to, not my own post)
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chrisaldrich
tantek, I've seen people frequently on micro.blog who are doing PESOS from Letterboxd to their sites where the rating is more forward.
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Loqi
πŸŽ₯ Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars (1973) β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜†
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Loqi
[ArnoldHoogerwerf] Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars (1973) β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜†
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[tantek]
what is a rating
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "rating" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "rating is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek]
rating is a summary evaluation of something along a particular dimension (though commonly overall), as standalone [[posts]], or as part of a [[review]] post.
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Loqi
πŸŽ₯ Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars (1973) β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜†
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jacky
lots of good chat on discovery + recommendation! def something the non-silo space is struggling with
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[tantek]
thanks chrisaldrich, that was just enough to create a new page πŸ™‚
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[tantek]
jacky, also a huge opportunity for new sites & services in the dweb space πŸ™‚
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[tantek]
attempts positive reframings
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jacky
precisely!
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Loqi
tantek has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (105 in all channels)
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chrisaldrich
If we're going to go with GWG's Year of Discovery starting in June, we've got to start building some runway... ;)
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jacky
indeed!
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snarfed
[tantek]: i have lots of inline ratings on eg (scroll down) https://snarfed.org/booksΒ , https://snarfed.org/beerΒ , and most other pages linked from https://snarfed.org/lists
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snarfed
mine are good/ok/bad though, not 1-5 stars
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chrisaldrich
snarfed, at least it's more dynamic range than Netflix allows now with thumbs up/thumbs down
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snarfed
heh true, but there are UX arguments on all sides
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snarfed
and arguably netflix has a similar dynamic range with up/down/unrated
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chrisaldrich
oops, forgot unrated...
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petermolnar
silos gonna silo? https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2019/02/more-updates-on-our-actions-related-to.html "More updates on our actions related to the safety of minors on YouTube" - read: comments on videos of children are now mostly banned.
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chrisaldrich
What is moderation?
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Loqi
Moderation is the process of holding comments for review by a human, and sometimes a source of frustration when a comment is written on another site that the commenter has no control over https://indieweb.org/moderation
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2019/02/more-updates-on-our-actions-related-to.html" to the "See Also" section of /moderation https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=57528&oldid=54177
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