#indieweb 2019-03-26

2019-03-26 UTC
snarfed, wolftune, tbbrown and AlexaB3rlin joined the channel
#
AlexaB3rlin Hi :) new to this.
nitot joined the channel
#
[tantek] welcome AlexaB3rlin!
#
AlexaB3rlin :)
#
chrisaldrich Has anyone come across a CMS that has solid design for publishing entire books online?
#
chrisaldrich I've seen people use http://mediacommons.org/ or things like PressBooks, which is essentially a fork of WordPress, but are there others that spring to mind?
#
chrisaldrich I can also think of mobile apps like Pocket that have UI so one can automatically swipe left/right as if they were flipping pages of a digital book...
snarfed joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich What is a book?
#
Loqi A book is a written work typically longer than an article, on the indieweb, there are examples of publishing whole books on IndieWeb sites, and publishing lists of books https://indieweb.org/book
#
[jgmac1106] Umm whatapp
#
[jgmac1106] Wattpad
#
[jgmac1106] Don't know that many young writers who don't start there
#
chrisaldrich That's one on my list, but it's all silo.... I'm thinking from the opensource side or CMS side....
#
[jgmac1106] Cormier published a book
#
[jgmac1106] So did Robin Derosa
#
[jgmac1106] Scalar used a lot for textbook writing, as is the iOS app can't remember name
#
chrisaldrich What is Pressbooks?
AlexaB3rlin left the channel
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Pressbooks" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Pressbooks is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
chrisaldrich Pressbooks is https://github.com/pressbooks/pressbooks, a [[book]] content management system which produces multiple formats: ebooks, webbooks, print-ready PDF, and various XML flavours.
#
Loqi ok
#
Loqi [pressbooks] pressbooks: Open publishing. Open web. Open source.
eli_oat joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] Chrisaldrich I styled a few different asides and added some data charts... But a light weight CMS that spits out the HTML in something like Jermery Keith's online book would be nice
#
[jgmac1106] Still if you did a 12 person artist collective $125 annual membership wouldn't be crazy
#
[jgmac1106] .... But Google docs is where ton of books live too. So easy
#
[jgmac1106] $125 you get ability to publish as many books you want, a website (on subdomain or bring your own Domain), and access to the writer's circle chat.
#
[jgmac1106] Wikimedia books. Tons of books written on wikis
eli_oat joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich You can do services like https://pressbooks.com/ for a one time fee of about $20 for some service and $99 one time fee includes .pdf book copies...
#
[jgmac1106] That's not bad.
#
[jgmac1106] I am sure there are premium one time WP themes as well
snarfed joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] You can remix my book on Glitch when I am done... It's the drafting part they all fail at. Publishing is easy
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: https://cathieleblanc.com/2019/03/24/alternative-to-the-corporate-web/
#
[jgmac1106] GitHub books isn't bad except GitHub horrible for text editing. I need character not line changes
#
[jgmac1106] That is what I would want to know about Pressbook. Am I still just copying and pasting from Google Docs when the real collaborative writing work is done?
#
chrisaldrich jgmac1106... that $125 price was per MONTH not per YEAR!
nitot joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] See 12 member collective
#
[jgmac1106] That is crazy expensive... Cleary a HigherEd up charge for what has to be hell customer support
#
[jgmac1106] Faculty are awful
#
chrisaldrich CathieLeBlanc++ for adding that article to IndieNews... I was just about to bookmark it there myself.
#
Loqi CathieLeBlanc has 1 karma over the last year
#
chrisaldrich I think a bunch of the troublesome portion of books is that there are multiple publication targets: online (desktop & mobile), paper (hardcover, paperbacks in different sizes), ebooks (with various formats and platforms), and even different e-book platforms.
#
[jgmac1106] What I need in book: dead perfect accessibility, it is a legal liability for me. Print style sheet. Over 50% of people will print. Img upload, data tables, couple block quote chpices
#
chrisaldrich Doing all of them requires a lot of custom software, formatting, and layout, as well as double-checking everything for final print runs.
snarfed joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich Pressbooks is one of the few that I've seen that supports many (all?) of these outputs.
#
[jgmac1106] No it doesn't html file per chapter, a css stylesheet, a print stylesheet
#
chrisaldrich jgmac1106, do you have examples of GitHub based books you've seen?
#
[jgmac1106] Dig into how this is set up. https://resilientwebdesign.com
#
[jgmac1106] Yeah one sec
#
[jgmac1106] Lemme say good night to the oldest
#
[jgmac1106] https://ebookfoundation.github.io/free-programming-books/
#
[jgmac1106] https://github.com/GitbookIO/gitbook/blob/master/docs/examples.md
#
[jgmac1106] And I think my friends zombie book
#
[jgmac1106] Nevermind uses something called lean pub https://leanpub.com/maybe-zombies
#
[jgmac1106] https://github.com/open-organization-ambassadors/open-org-it-culture
#
Loqi [open-organization-ambassadors] open-org-it-culture: Repository for the open organization community's guide to IT culture change
#
chrisaldrich I forgot about leanpub...
#
[jgmac1106] But ugggh... It's like people think it isn't a book if it ain't a pdf
#
chrisaldrich there's also a bunch of distribution only websites like Amazon, Smashwords, etc. which are usually publish only and have no editing or creating functionality.
#
chrisaldrich more examples welcome here or on /book... I'll try to add some more later this evening (and definitely at New Haven this weekend).
#
chrisaldrich Back in a bit... dinnertime.
#
[jgmac1106] Cool ton of examples of book CMS here: http://noop.nl/2014/08/why-i-dont-use-leanpub.html
electronicmaji and [kimberlyhirsh] joined the channel
#
[kimberlyhirsh] When I worked at learnnc.org (now defunct, closed in 2014/2015) we had a custom built CMS that we published books in that had PDF outputs. Wasn't great for composing, though. Only accepted HTML input, no WYSIWYG.
snarfed joined the channel
#
[tantek] ok I just verified that nearly all other Twitter accounts I created (for projects, specifications, communities etc.) have all been locked. one of them was suspended (like right after being created), filed a support request, and it was unsuspended in minutes so that's good at least. but for all the rest, I'm going to publicly list them just to demonstrate how ridiculous it is because *none* of them have anything remotely abusive or suspicious
#
[tantek] it's time to document how bad their automation is publicly
iasai, wolftune and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] wordpress published this on their blog today https://en.blog.wordpress.com/2019/03/25/electric-literature-moves-to-wordpress/
#
[jgmac1106] Good IndieWeb comments about putting someone between you and readers
iasai, electronicmaji, KartikPrabhu, nitot, wolftune, ben_thatmust, snarfed and [tantek] joined the channel
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: "Micropub 2.0.9 Released" https://david.shanske.com/2019/03/26/micropub-2-0-9-released/
#
[tantek] [jgmac1106] yes that's a good article, and underscores some good points, e.g. why leave Medium, and this: https://en.blog.wordpress.com/2019/03/25/electric-literature-moves-to-wordpress/#more-41212
#
[tantek] "Slow and Steady Growth Can Be a Very Good Thing "
iasai, KartikPrabhu, snarfed, nitot, wolftune and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[jeremycherfas] Have you seen Pollen? https://docs.racket-lang.org/pollen/index.html [chrisaldrich] Might be more than you want to get into but the results are gorgeous.
#
Loqi [jeremycherfas]: [jgmac1106] left you a message 9 hours, 47 minutes ago: snipcart does a $10 monthly fee if sales under 500, so there is 120 annual cost....or you have to remember to activate and deactivate the account
snarfed, yar, gRegorLove__, [eddie], cweiske and nitot joined the channel
#
jacky y'all might like this site https://humanebydesign.com/
#
jacky lots of lots of good ideas and concepts around design and keeping it humane
#
jacky design << https://humanebydesign.com/
#
Loqi ok, I added "https://humanebydesign.com/" to the "See Also" section of /design https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=58606&oldid=58106
KartikPrabhu, barpthewire and jihaisse joined the channel
#
Zegnat Jeremycherfas, hmm, last I looked at Pollen I seem to recall it had some odd HTML output on those sites. Definitely really nice looking though
#
Zegnat More accurately, it outputs a lot of not-HTML into the document
nitot, catsup and neceve joined the channel
#
Loqi good morning! vHWC EU participants, please vote for timeslots that fit your schedules: https://indieweb.org/User:Www.svenknebel.de/vHWC-timeslots
#
Loqi Countdown set by sknebel on 2019-03-25 at 10:46pm CET
[Rose] joined the channel
#
Jeremycherfas Butterick is very opinionated, and not just about typography. But if I were producing more than a book every year I would definitely want to investigate Pollen and Racket further.
#
Jeremycherfas He also links to a diatribe against PHP that I am way too ignorant to appreciate. :)
#
Jeremycherfas Good mornin IndieWeb
nitot joined the channel
#
voxpelli Good morning!
#
voxpelli So: When do we create an indie filter for uploaded content as well as an indie licensing solution for Webmentions? (If EU fails today)
#
Zegnat If you are not a service provider, you don’t need an upload filter, AFAIU
#
Zegnat So this just means everyone should go indie! Tumblr may add an upload filter, but your own blog doesn’t have to
#
GWG Morning
#
Loqi good morning
#
Zegnat Good morning GWG :)
#
GWG Anything indieweb on the agenda today?
#
petermolnar depends. if article 11 & 13 passes, we all cry in the corner.
#
GWG Depressing
#
Zegnat When does the actual vote happen? WOnder where I best follow this
[Rose] joined the channel
#
sknebel Zegnat: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/de/schedule/ livestreams are here
#
Zegnat Thanks!
#
petermolnar Zegnat: https://twitter.com/senficon - just follow her.
#
Zegnat That works
#
petermolnar ....and, apparently, it's time to cry in the corner.
#
benfrancis doubleloop: No I hadn't seen Freedombone, thanks, I will take a look.
AkyRhO joined the channel
#
aaronpk How does this (theoretically) affect things like rss readers? Since they're pulling in content from news sites and such
#
[Rose] Non legal and not very important opinion: it shouldn't, the sites providing the content should be on the hook
#
Jeremycherfas A sad day indeed. Hard to believe most of the MEPs who voted for the amendments understood them in any depth.
#
[Rose] Cynical comment: People don't understand technology so will go after feed readers anyway
#
voxpelli They are not redistributing it, so shouldn’t be affected,but who knows, part of it depends on how countries will now implement this in law
#
aaronpk Ah right I guess it depends on how you define redistributing
#
voxpelli I’m more afraid for webmentions in general and webmention services in particular
#
[Rose] I firmly believe that before politicians are allowed to vote on this stuff they should have to attend a lecture and pass a test to show their understanding. Unfortunately the people designing the lectures and tests would then become the problem.
#
aaronpk showing content to a single user that they chose to follow shouldn't count as redistributing
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] as "aggregators" were the demons in the legislation, readers may well be targetted
#
[Rose] If it does it would mean the end of buzzfeed
#
voxpelli Webmentions are only about aggregation :)
#
Zegnat I think a reader is much more like a webbrowser: a user uses it to read a thing. Aggregators would be public things, like IndieNews
#
voxpelli Some WebSub hubs could perhaps have an issue?
#
voxpelli They are also redistributing
#
aaronpk WebSub as written only redistributes at the request of the author so it's fine
#
Jeremycherfas I do think it would be best not to overreact just yet. Implementation in law will matter, as will implementation in practice. Although that shouldn't be the case.
#
aaronpk it's only things like superfeedr which provide a websub-like API for users to follow other things that could be a problem
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] My guess people will ignore this.
#
[jgmac1106] Two years before member countries operstionalize laws
#
[Rose] Jeremycherfas++, we have to wait and see
#
Loqi Jeremycherfas has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
#
[jgmac1106] And then good Ole civil disobedience if necessary
#
Zegnat Civil disobedience is fine as long as your country isn’t crawling with small lawfirms whos entire business is sending threatening letters over exactly these types of digressions ;)
#
[jgmac1106] Again my guess over next two years will get watered down across member countries
iasai joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] Problem is in France where folks will burn cars protesting the way the sun rises so supports the law
eli_oat joined the channel
#
Jeremycherfas Could you just develop that sweeping generalisation, [jgmac1106] ?
#
[jgmac1106] Simply support for the copyright law was high in the EU member state with a long tradition of violent protest
#
Jeremycherfas Uh huh.
#
[jgmac1106] The split in the Greens across EU interesting as well
#
[jgmac1106] jerermycherfas agree with you wait and see best approach
#
[jgmac1106] So if I am standing on the UK and Irish border in norther Ireland will I have two different internets two feet away? This problem interests me ( and scares me)
#
[Rose] Maybe, it depends on what happens in UK politics
#
aaronpk Ok folks let's keep the discussion of this on topic to things directly related to personal websites
#
petermolnar if things continue going the way they are, UK will obey both EU and US internet laws...
#
[Rose] Prompted by something I just said in the WordPress channel: Does anyone remove/hide posts from their website when a date or time has passed?
#
petermolnar aaronpk: fair point
#
petermolnar although article 11 & 13 might be directly related to personal websites
#
petermolnar as for quoting & linking from news pages
#
[Rose] I want to show a list of upcoming events and past events, but I'm not sure if the past ones will be relevant
#
petermolnar [Rose]: hide as CSS or hide as not even in the DOM?
#
aaronpk They sure are, but there's also plenty to discuss about them that isn't, and let's keep that to the off topic channe
#
[Rose] Peter: I could do that, it's a good idea. But I'm debating use cases mentally and thought this would be a good topic to get feedback on
#
aaronpk [Rose]: that sounds more like selectively featuring posts rather than completely deleting them? Or is your intent to also delete the event after it's done?
#
[Rose] Aaron: selective showing is more along the lines of what I want
#
aaronpk I used to do that before my home page was a stream of posts
#
[Rose] I would like to highlight to the reader that the event has already passed if it has, else where they get tickets/sign up/find out more for other events
#
[Rose] And then somewhere have a selective list of just future events
#
aaronpk Events are a fun topic for sure :-)
#
[Rose] 😄
#
aaronpk I don't do a good job of distinguishing future/past events on my site right now. I should probably fix that.
#
[Rose] Something tells me I'm asking a question lots of people have lurking, but we've not yet got a great solution for yet
#
petermolnar if date of post is in past set h-entry opacity to 0.5
#
petermolnar done :D
#
[Rose] Great, let's translate that to WordPress, make it work with my custom Genesis child theme and done 😛
#
[Rose] Next: world peace!
#
petermolnar [Rose]: let's get this into -wordpress
#
[Rose] I definitely want to do this automatically if possible.
#
aaronpk Lol
friedcell joined the channel
#
[Rose] I definitely would like to know how other people are handling events, I think [dougbeal] suggested it for IWC online?
#
aaronpk i'd start with looking at examples of event websites and how they present past events differently. Most of them don't actually remove events after they're done
#
[Rose] Yeah, I just want to filter them away
#
aaronpk in Wordpress terms I'd probably make a little sidebar widget that can show the next few events
#
aaronpk I don't know actually how to do that but I'm sure others do :-)
#
[jgmac1106] Wouldn't your events stack by date? So future on top and past further down
#
[Rose] How often do people look at past events? That's an important consideration
#
aaronpk Past events are a good place to collect blog posts and photos after the event is done
#
[Rose] Yes, turning them into a collection header is definitely an idea
#
Zegnat [Rose]: for an IndieWeb prior art, I think tantek has a specific events section on his homepage
nitot, wolftune and iasai joined the channel
#
[Rose] Excellent, thanks!
tbbrown, iasai and chrisaldrich joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich Nice timeline relating to Medium and it's checkered silo history: http://www.niemanlab.org/2019/03/the-long-complicated-and-extremely-frustrating-history-of-medium-2012-present/
#
chrisaldrich Medium << http://www.niemanlab.org/2019/03/the-long-complicated-and-extremely-frustrating-history-of-medium-2012-present/
#
Loqi ok, I added "http://www.niemanlab.org/2019/03/the-long-complicated-and-extremely-frustrating-history-of-medium-2012-present/" to the "See Also" section of /Medium https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=58614&oldid=56936
seekr, wolftune, jackjamieson, eli_oat, bkardell, iasai, barpthewire, jjuran, aalmazan, mctsonic, pindonga, KartikPrabhu, nitot and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] what is ephemeral
#
Loqi Expiring content is content that is only temporarily (ephemerally) relevant, and also part of a larger post, that can and should be (preferably automatically) removed once a particular datetime has passed (the expiration date) https://indieweb.org/ephemeral
#
[tantek] [Rose] ^^^
[Rose] joined the channel
#
[Rose] Thanks!
[kenbauer], [jgmac1106], wolftune, iasai and chrisaldrich joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich jeremycherfas++ for the reminder about Pollen!
#
Loqi jeremycherfas has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (31 in all channels)
#
chrisaldrich Books << https://docs.racket-lang.org/pollen/index.html
#
Loqi ok, I added "https://docs.racket-lang.org/pollen/index.html" to the "See Also" section of /book https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=58619&oldid=58597
gRegorLove__, snarfed, iasai, nitot, [eddie], [schmarty], pindonga, eli_oat, leg, [kimberlyhirsh], [grantcodes], [jgmac1106], [Rose], KartikPrabhu, Dmf, chrisaldrich, [asuh], ramsey and [tantek] joined the channel; leg left the channel
#
[jgmac1106] Will this hit Own Your Gram https://later.com/blog/instagram-api/amp/
#
aaronpk OYG doesn't use the API ;-)
#
[jgmac1106] Sweet... What ever magic you built then amazes me
#
[jgmac1106] Does Bridgy scrape likes or did it use the API for those? Do you know?
#
@JOEZCafe_ You’ve prolly heard the news about Patreon’s new creator plans and how if you make a page before then, you’ll be a founder that keeps more revenue. I just got an email saying we still have the chance to be founders provided our pages are LAUNCHED by May 1stish. RT TO SAVE A LIFE https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2JBfZMWoAAlVAc.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1108520477562232833)
#
gRegorLove If anyone is thinking about setting up a Patreon, might be good to do so before May 1: https://twitter.com/JOEZCafe_/status/1108520477562232833
#
jacky yup
#
jacky I was lucky to have mine before that
#
gRegorLove Bridgy scrapes the JSON embedded on IG pages, iirc.
iasai, snarfed, treora, mblaney, nitot, [eddie] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel