#indieweb 2019-05-23

2019-05-23 UTC
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[jjdelc] hello, I have a fwd question that a friend posed to me after explaining some of my personal indieweb implementation. On Facebook this person uses a lot of visibility options of who can see their posts. If my blog/stream is on my url with public access, I imagine there is no parallel to implement this in an indie web is there?
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aaronpk what are private posts?
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Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen or previously approved by the author https://indieweb.org/private_posts
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aaronpk there are some notes there, but it is still very much experimental in terms of getting things working to a similar experience on facebook
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[jjdelc] excellent!
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[jjdelc] Thanks [aaronpk]!
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miklb congrats all on the The New Yorker piece.
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aaronpk \o/
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aaronpk thanks
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miklb what is a kind
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "kind" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "kind is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky miklb: you talking post kinds?
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miklb yes. I'm migrating back to static from WordPress and starting over so trying to decide how i want to structure notes/articles/photos/etc. I'm leaning to using collections vs tag based system
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jacky what is a collection
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Loqi A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indieweb.org/collection
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jacky collections are interesting and tbh I'm still wrestling to make them work
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miklb but collection in the sense of Jekyll has a different meaning. I believe Eleventy also uses collection in the sense of organizing
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jacky oh I get you - my main site uses Jekyll and I've been trying to wrangle how to do this myself
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jacky the closest way I came to it was considering giving a tag more "info" (like giving it the same kind of mf2 a entry/post can have) and if it's detected to have that, use that as its "index" and list the pages under accordingly
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miklb I looked at a few examples and I think I'm leaning towards using them. Feels like if I created custom front matter would be reinventing the wheel
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jacky lightly
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jacky if you consider a tag a linked entry/post then it feels a bit more natural
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miklb interesting dilemma of separating taxonomies for structure vs semantic
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GWG_ miklb: Welcome back?
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GWG_ I'm always happy to see you.
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jacky miklb: indeed!
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miklb GWG I didn't really go anywhere but thanks. I've been slowly thinking and pushing a little code.
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miklb I think if the approach with mf2 is that its a class that should be used for styling, same thought should be given to how it's used in classification. Maybe.
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miklb so if I approach note/article/photo/etc as custom taxonomies, then a collection is just a taxonomy optimized for querying. I think.
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miklb shouldn't be used for styling I meant
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infominer[m] :wave:
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jacky hey there infominer[m]
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infominer[m] feels weird not being able to edit chat :)
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jacky lol matrix got you thinking something else
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infominer[m] <-newb
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infominer[m] I'm spiritually converted, but the application is a work in progress
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jacky totally :)
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jacky to your point miklb re: categories/tags as more than just a label
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jacky I think that since (for most that I've seen) tag pages aren't editable to the same level you'd have for a post that this still will exist
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jacky this is kinda inspiring me to accept full micropub support for tag pages
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infominer[m] I feel like a pioneer w ghpages and static sites, now webmentions on static sites... that's the bleeding edge rite there!
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infominer[m] :p
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GWG_ miklb: As always, anything I can do
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miklb if you have any suggestions on how I can unserialize some of the kind-meta that would be swell.
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infominer[m] hi miklb I'm so glad for your work on jekyll-indieweb
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infominer[m] and that you are still working with it
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miklb jacky sure. I guess I just want to tag a photo "beach, sunset" and not "photo, beach, sunset" rather have the photo collection which I can control the permalink structure on
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infominer[m] when I started, I didn't really know what to think, but I knew I could make some use of it, or learn with it at least
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GWG_ And the permalink would be?
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infominer[m] I took a break but will be back at it to see what you've got going with it before long
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miklb infominer[m] thanks. I'm excited that I've figured out how to use it as a Jekyll theme so it will be even easier to get started but wired to work with the jekyll webmention plugin and hopefully document/provide the Action to run sending/receiving webmentions right on GitHub without using a build server.
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infominer[m] :D
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miklb GWG probably the kind/type. But then tags are strictly for classifying the substance of the content, not what type of content it is. If that makes sense.
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infominer[m] well, I was also trying to figure out how to get a heroku app too. and will... but that was a stumbling block too :)
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miklb infominer[m] I'll be setting up all of those tools again and documenting it in the coming soon repo.
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infominer[m] very cool!
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infominer[m] in the meantime I"m working on my web-work site that the indieweb project will branch from
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infominer[m] and i spend a lot of time archiving stuff... so, it seems like we can each play off our own strengths...
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infominer[m] cause I'm not ready to build my own jekyll theme, yet
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infominer[m] but nobody seems to collect and organize links to the extent that I do... it's a serious passion...
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miklb that's the beauty of being able to do it as a theme this time. You can override specific templates in your own repo but get fixes and features from the theme without having to do any git voodoo.
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miklb before once you forked and started customizing, there was no easy path to get fixes or features.
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infominer[m] true!!
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infominer[m] as one who got introduced w working on more techincal tools by github pages \jekyll... I must say that I really love working with ruby...
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infominer[m] to me it's a lot easier to work with than python, for example..
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jacky YMMV for sure
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infominer[m] don't get me wrong tho... I love me some MkDocs
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infominer[m] I have like 8 different websites, that are mostly branching off the same domain... looking forward to having them communicate with eachother.. and could make some really cool instructionals that way.
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miklb meanwhile I'm scrapping any ideas of multiple sites and consolidating to one single domain.
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[tantek] miklb++
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Loqi miklb has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (15 in all channels)
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[jeremycherfas] [tonz]++ for a reality check
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Loqi [tonz] has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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[Rose] Update on likes on micro.blog from the community there: https://micro.blog/smokey/3695363
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[jjdelc] I am going to give a short indieweb intro talk in our local Peru mozilla group. I have been watching many of the indieweb talks on youtube and gathering ideas. Are there any guidelines, dos/donts?
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infominer[m] Is there some repo for that sorta thing?
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infominer[m] Seems like it should b, however havent run across one yet
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[Rose] The last two IWC intros are on archive.org not YouTube, linked from the session pages.
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infominer[m] Interesting
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[jjdelc] yup, I'm gathering from those. Not literal translations, but as guidelines on what topics to mention.
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infominer[m] Links to them on archive? (Ifn ya dont mind)
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infominer[m] installs internet archive mobile apps duh
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[Rose] https://archive.org/details/@indieweb
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infominer[m] Ooh!
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[Rose] Most of Utrecht is grouped together.
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[tantek] Looks like my Swarm account might be back. [Rose] can you check to see if I’m in your friends list again?
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[tantek] Going to try a password reset to get the account up again
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[Rose] You are back!
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[calumryan] Seems to be pending for me
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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infominer[m] Saaaaaah!
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infominer[m] <-smokily motivating
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jacky [Rose]++ for that archive.org link
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Loqi [Rose] has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (48 in all channels)
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jacky loads way faster than YouTube :)
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[Rose] I think the plan is to put all videos from now on there
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infominer[m] Good to know
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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GWG Morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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[Rose] What are people's thoughts of "I am my own ActivityPub instance" vs syndicating to another one?
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[tonz] To me sharing is like an onion, at the core is stuff that is for just a few, at the outermost layer everything that is fully public. My use of AP/Mastodon/Twitter style messages is somewhere in between, and I’d like it to be follower only for the most part. So that makes me hesitant to use my site to do AP, as it’s all fully public. So ideally I’d like to be able to syndicate public stuff from my site into my otherwise follower-only AP instanc
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[tonz] to have different layers of access, so it itself can be the onion, and I no longer need a diff tool for a diff layer of onion.
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Zegnat I don’t do AP myself, but if you think AP is important I would say host your own. If you do not want your main website to have to implement AP, you could even host your own mastodon instance and syndicate to that one. But atleast you’ll own the AP messages that way.
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[tonz] (My current set-up is I run a 1-person AP instance on m.tzyl.nl and have my site have an AP feed that I follow from my personal instance. I then boost/retweet my postings.)
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GWG I don't do AP either
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GWG Not sure the sales point yet
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petermolnar [Rose]: fed.brid.gy
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[Rose] I know about BridgyFed, in my case I don't need it (WP has a plugin), I just wonder if for people using Mastodon as a social network if following a website feels odd, and also if you end up not being as discoverable.
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[tonz] I know [frank] was somewhat confused by me boosting my blog’s postings, thought I had switched accounts again. Personally I don’t mind following websites as people, because that is already how I follow rss feeds, I rename them to the author, and don’t follow ‘sources / outlets’. But I can see how it is confusing to others maybe
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Rixon [Rose]: I just came across this post that may interest you https://prismo.xyz/posts/f06d7f68-4d93-47cd-a19b-c27794a1abc1
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Rixon Though as you say you are aware of and not Iin need of bridgy
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Rixon *in
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Rixon I just came across it and my brain went "relevant", but it's antirelevance haha
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[Rose] I met doubleloop this weekend!
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Zegnat [Rose]: I think it is the same problem with micro.blog; maybe it doesn’t make sense for people who use AP to follow your firehose, so maybe you do not want your firehose to be an AP actor
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Zegnat But otherwise I think the idea is nice, where your website (that represents you) has an AP inbox and outbox for people on the fediverse/mastodon to communicate with directly
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[tonz] [Zegnat] [Rose] yup. I had a separate feed for micro.blog, then repointed it to the firehose, but may well use a separate feed again at some point in the future.
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Zegnat Without the need for you to have a separate account on a random server
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[eddie] Yeah, while I'm not a Mastodon user, the fact that you follow users on multi user servers, single user servers, etc. I think the only thing that would smell bad to Mastodon users is if you have a "spammy" feeling timeline. Internally my site uses a syndication trigger to decide what posts to send to Mastodon/AP users
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[eddie] Even though it's not pure syndication, in the technical sense, it is in the interaction sense. A post can sit on my site or be "syndicated" around to various places. Of those I can choose Micro.blog, Twitter and Mastodon/Fediverse. It's nice to have that lower level control
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[Rose] Yes, that's the question in the end: what should be syndicated where and how should it be handled
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[eddie] I just decide on a per post basis. There's a list of places I can syndicate to and I just tap on them. It only takes a second per post and prevents having to figure out complicated rules. It also means by default some posts don't syndicate around which is better in my opinion then my rules going bad and accidentally flooding any external service.
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[eddie] Not sure if Wordpress has that option though
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GWG I built it
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GWG Needs more options
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Zegnat It is an interesting sort of syndication. As it isn’t really “send to external party” instead it is “what networks should this show up on”
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[Rose] Also, you can use Categories in WordPress for many things.
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GWG Doesn't work with Micropub
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[eddie] Yep, exactly, Zegnat. That's how I think about this. Syndication for newspapers was that someone would write an article and it would show up in specifically agreed upon newspapers, and people that read that paper would get to read it. So for me, it's the same thing. Which networks do I want to send this post to so that people that read it?
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[eddie] Right now my monthly email newsletter is still based off of a couple of categories (personal, family and tech). But I'm thinking through possible ways to modify it. One idea is making my newsletter another syndication option which is just stored internally and then decided to be sent in an email.
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[jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] maybe an adjacent HWC or meet up...closeish to you: https://twitter.com/jmenglund03/status/1130910250356420610
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@jmenglund03 Excited to present with @gravesle and @jgmac1106 about 'Continuing Conversations: Discovering Open Practices in our Syllabi' at #opened19! https://twitter.com/openedconf/status/1130478093796175873 (twitter.com/_/status/1130910250356420610)
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[eddie] Often times I find different networks (Micro.blog, Fediverse, Twitter, Newsletter subscribers) are kind of like social circles in a way
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[jgmac1106] eddie you have to also know the rules of the instance any do not allow syndication to public timelines
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[jgmac1106] why I don't use the academic instance, they allow no bots or public syndication
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[eddie] I am my own instance thanks to Bridgy Fed
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[jgmac1106] ahh I haven't figured out what is wrong
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[jgmac1106] but I think jBove may have fixed it so I will be back to my own instance soon
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[eddie] "There are no strings on me" as pinocchio and ultron would say
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[jgmac1106] ha and one thing I think about syndication is context of replies
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[jgmac1106] without webmentions threads get lost quite quick on AP instances
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[jgmac1106] or worse you see half a conversation someone is having on microblog or twitter on Mastodon
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[eddie] Another reason I like having control with the click when I'm sending it
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aaronpk I only push out notes and photos to mastodon ppl. My site does post type discovery when a new post is created and decides then whether to broadcast it
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[Rose] Would you consider adding photos to that now that Pixelfed is becoming a thing?
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sknebel To "notes and photos"? :D
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[Rose] Brains
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[Rose] I misread that 4 times as "articles"
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sknebel aaronpk: presumably replies have logic depending on the thing being replied to?
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aaronpk Oh yeah replies aren't handled completely differently. It's hooked into the same part that sends webmentions rather than the part that syndicates
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aaronpk hey
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aaronpk are handled
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aaronpk damn autocorrect why would you correct "are" to "aren't"
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[eddie] Same thing, my replies do what they do based on analyzing the reply url
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petermolnar what is Pixelfed?
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Loqi PixelFed is open source software for social image sharing, similar to Instagram, that interoperates with other sites using several open standards including rel-me and ActivityPub https://indieweb.org/PixelFed
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infominer[m] So i could have them syndicated to different sites depending on keywords in the reply
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infominer[m] I think its hilarious i got back on insta for indieweb
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petermolnar is Pixelfed a thing or just promised to be a thing?
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[Rose] It's in very active development
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petermolnar so it's not yet and "is" :)
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petermolnar sorry for the tone, but I've seen so much vaporware in the past ~5 years, that the basic stance is being sceptical
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[Rose] Hehe, it's not my project 😉 The developer hangs out it the dev channel from time to time though
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strk what's the recommended path from email to website, if any ?
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strk and, from website to gpg public key
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[Rose] You can put a GPG key in your hcard
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[Rose] What do you mean with "path from email to website"? Discoverability, links?
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/OpenPGP#Link_to_your_public_key
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strk discoverability
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strk how should the referenced gpgkey be formatted ? asciarmored is good ?
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strk file reports: PGP public key block Public-Key (old)
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strk what's the (old) part for ?
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aaronpk no idea but if you find out please document it on the wiki :)
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doubleloop Re: ActivityPub interactions, I'm going to keep syndicating to the shared instance I am on as I like the community and local timeline. Just via plain old POSSE. I am going to keep the WP AP plugin running, but more as a test as it's a firehose at the moment - not advertising it or interacting with people from it.
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doubleloop If I could get BridgyFed working a bit more smoothly it might be better. As via WP Syndication Links it gives kind of a nice middle ground, as you can choose which posts you want to go via it.
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jmac Good afternoon, indieweb
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GWG Smoother how?
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doubleloop GWG: hmm, I guess mainly the Mastodon content warning issue. That's a bit of a blocker.
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doubleloop https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/47
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Loqi [fluffy-critter] #47 Better CW text for Mastodon item posts
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GWG So, markup question?
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doubleloop The doubled up identifier is not ideal, but liveable. (I prefer @neil@doubleloop.net of WP AP vs @doubleloop.net@doubleloop.net of BF, but I understand the reasoning for it.)
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[eddie] I believe Bridgy Fed added the ability for you to define your identifier via your h-card
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snarfed yup. intentionally not advertised/documented, but should work. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/3#issuecomment-381028834
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Loqi [snarfed] fyi all, @singpolyma's #27 implements this by looking for an `acct:` `u-url` in the representative h-card, as descibed earlier here, which seems pretty safe and likely to only be used by people who know what they're doing. i'm still a bit reluctan...
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[eddie] doubleloop So if you decide to reconsider bridgy fed in the future, that's an option
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doubleloop Oh nice
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] just had a thought since you have a lot of EDU expertise/experience, and we have a bunch of essentially "educational" resources but aren't really calling them that (Tutorials, Calum Ryan's (cc [calumryan] for thoughts too) indieweb docs site, step by step implementation instructions/videos for devs) - would it help to bundle these in their own group/thing like an "IndieWebSchool" ? E.g. sample description: "Interactive tutorials on pers
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[tantek] IndieWeb building blocks. Complete personal site challenges or building block coding challenges online or at an IndieWebCamp." WDYT?
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[Rose] I think if we do that we need to do a bit more than bundle it, make it into a curriculum with aims, perhaps record some extra videos, etc.
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[Rose] (Also, yay for having been a teacher!)
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aaronpk A bunch of people did that in Düsseldorf with getting webmention sending working, in a large part I think because I did that intro session at the beginning of the first day and it had a very clear outcome at the end of it (you saw the comment appear on my blog post)
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[Rose] Yup, those are the ones that make good candidates.
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[Rose] Plus building a micropub Endpoint videos,
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[tantek] right this is what I mean we have these "school" like resources kinda scattered about right now, and I think it would be benefit (especially new folks to the community, new IndieWebCamp participants) to have them packaged up a bit with design etc.
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[tantek] no need to move the resources per se (e.g. having them on the wiki means they're more likely to be updated than on some special site)
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[tantek] but we do need a directory / step-by-step outline kind of thing that gathers them all in an accessible place
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[calumryan] Thinking some provision for a styeguide certainly for any sort of written or verbal presentation might be good to have for breaking down the complexities in a consistent format.
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[tantek] [calumryan] that sounds worth adding as at least a Brainstorming suggestion to /wikifying
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[tantek] (trying to capture it somewhere so we don't lose it)
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infominer[m] Like in a version controlled git repo?
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infominer[m] :D
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[calumryan] I think it was this mentioned at Berlin Accessibility Club last year as some guidance to, not only design principles, but for developing accessible learning resources I'd be happy to put together something similar - https://ukhomeoffice.github.io/accessibility-posters/
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